Spawning A losing game

[Drastic]

Hi all,

Some of you have played me in game, i'm not the best player in the world, it's mainly for fun but lately I have had none of that either. I love the game, the players are great, no issues there.

Where I am having an issue is spawn kills. I typically "on a good day" get 181 ping on a crappy connection that is regulated by charter internet which I found uses a stop go method for high speed. You get X-time for great connection, then next person, then next... creating a connection that bogs down when multiple players are online against me <one or two not so bad but over that, I lag so bad it's ridiculous>. Not just this game but all games. 20 meg service craps under 3 youtube vids going on 3 systems. Now, we know for a fact it's charter, we've changed, replaced, moved, everything to do with internet, cable box, cables, w\w\o wireless, routers, computers, even moved to another house, not to mention the notorious packet loss I keep getting through charter.

That said, I'm going back to DSL with a slower but stable connection. Until then, I would like to know some servers that have spawn protect on. While not usually one to get mad in game, I am quite tired of spawning and dying with no chance to even move most of the time. It's <<see the screen, bloody splotch, done  >> there is no game play. No one can play like that if you're dead before you can actually move  and when I can, my shots I'm seeing are probably from a previous match due to lag  .  I am not trying to whine but really, it's impossible to play when you don't move for 2 seconds and good players knock you off immediately.

So until I can find a better internet service,  are there servers with spawn protect, preferably insta over DM but will take whatever I can get at this point.

I thank you much.

[Gig]

I fear spawn protection is not available in baseoa (please correct me if I'm wrong - Update, please see "update" below), but anyway some mods (e.g. DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/ModCompat/CorkScrew]CorkScrew) do support it. I don't know if there are server arount that do... I play very little!
Anyway, I fear that, if you have networking problems that you get control over your character after two seconds from respawning, it would be impossible to play anyway.
Did you try DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak]tweaking your networking settings in the game, e.g. setting those for a slow connection?


By the way, a protection against "spawn spot campers" may be useful also in baseoa... who knows if Sago would like to implement it into the main game (optional, of course). If such feature is included in some GPL'd mod, it should be quick enough to import it. I read it's managed by g_spawnprotection in DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mods/AfterShock]AfterShock mod (see http://aftershock.wikia.com/wiki/Server_settings, it reports default value as 0 and measurement unit in seconds), which is GPLv2.

UPDATE: I tried with baseoa, and found out the existence of a g_spawnprotect variable (its default value is 500, so a short protection looks enabled by default). I tested (set it to an high value, such as 10000, and set g_debugdamage 1), and it works. I'm not sure about the unit of measurement, maybe milliseconds? Does 500 mean you're protected for half second? In that case, you would have to find a server where g_spawnprotect is 2000 or higher (but how to know?)... Can someone confirm it's "milliseconds" and not something different (e.g. server fps, centiseconds, deciseconds...)?

The problem is that, unlike CorkScrew (where a character has got a glowing color around himself, when you can't shoot at him), there is no visual feedback for it: you don't know when you can start shooting to someone that just respawned. Maybe an overlay color may be added in a next release?

Note: in baseoa implementation, your spawn-protection immediately runs out when you fire your first bullet. In some mods implementations, you cannot shoot until the spawn protection time expires.

[Bane]

Hi fellow high pinger ! I would just like to say I get what you are saying about high ping. I think I have only maybe played on 2 or 3 servers in the U.S. I mostly play on ones in Europe or other countries, mainly because there are little to no U.S. servers. Some tips I have learned over the years playing have helped my lower my ping to the mid hundreds ( i.e. 131-150). In order to get this I had to turn off a lot of the flashy stuff that  really does not serve a purpose aside from making the game look fancy. I used the OA tweak guide ( (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak). I hope this helps you out and hope t o see you around 

[sago007]

Can someone confirm it's "milliseconds" and not something different (e.g. server fps, centiseconds, deciseconds...)?

It is milliseconds. And yes you have 0.5 seconds of protection by default. There is no visual feedback to not mark the player as an obvious target.

[Gig]

Okay. As who knows me can guess, "spawn protection" feature is now explained in the wiki:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Special_game_options#Spawn_protection

[Drastic]

Great info and help people, much appreciated. 

My issue was found fortunately as far as my freeze ups and complete lag go. While i had a new modem, it was bad (as was the one I had replaced with the bad one lol) and Charter replaced it with another, newer model that actually handles the internet properly. The other one was mixing the signal, causing all sorts of issues. 3 modems later, good to go.

Aside from that, I do still have issues with the spawn kills. There were instances where I was maybe second place, only a few kills behind, then get spawn killed 6-7 times in a row, suddenly I've lost the game. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect it to change or would even suggest it, "hope that's not what I got across here" but I also realize those with lower pings have a huge advantage in the spawn kill game. Again, I have no real issue with it in general, I just thought it a better option to look elsewhere to play (servers with spawn protect)

So if there is no actual spawn protect, then I deal with it or quit. 

Thanks again

[grey matter]

Don't forget that players with higher FPS also have advantages. I always get stutter (severe fps drop) right after spawning, so I need a second or two to actually start running and shooting.

[Drastic]

Yeah after an all out battle where I was able to get 1 kill, able to actually move once due to being dead before I actually get to play, I've decided the game is not going to work for me. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game and a great community here plus free but again, the disadvantage is to the point of not playing at all.  Either way, great games to those I've played, was fun.

[Gig]

I suppose your connection has something very strange.
I don't know if in OA it is very different from Q3A... but years ago I was a Q3 player with a bad 56K modem, and I was able to play. Of course, the connection was a problem, and sometimes it got stuck and I were forced to use /reconnect command... but I don't remember this problem of being repeatedly killed just after respawning because of me getting stuck for some seconds at each respawn. I don't remember that. Is it possible that a such problem affects OA and not Q3?

Anyway, what are your settings? What's your current "rate" value?

[RMF]

And yes you have 0.5 seconds of protection by default. There is no visual feedback to not mark the player as an obvious target.

Which is incredibly annoying when you rail someone that you see spawning. It's not a blind or luck shot, and all the player does is bounce back and get 1500ms of free time to get a good aim at you. Argh.

[Drastic]

I suppose your connection has something very strange.
I don't know if in OA it is very different from Q3A... but years ago I was a Q3 player with a bad 56K modem, and I was able to play. Of course, the connection was a problem, and sometimes it got stuck and I were forced to use /reconnect command... but I don't remember this problem of being repeatedly killed just after respawning because of me getting stuck for some seconds at each respawn. I don't remember that. Is it possible that a such problem affects OA and not Q3?

Anyway, what are your settings? What's your current "rate" value?

Well, my connection is fine now. I no longer get stuck in spawn, however, it changes nothing. I went near 3/4 a game with simply getting spawn killed, unable to even respond before I was dead. Again, spawn, bam, dead. It's not the fault of the players, especially if they are great shots and know where to get you, it's just the fact if you have a higher ping, your spawn time lags just long enough for someone with far better ping to keep picking you off.

I currently have been playing Cube which even with higher ping, allows me to get moving so I'm not spawn killed every time. As a matter of fact, it plays great and no internet issues at all. When I have high ping there, it is very slow but still playable as was Alien Arena until anti-lag was implemented, which I ended up not playing due to the crappy play. Maybe it's tied in somehow.

My rate is lan/cable/dsl. I appreciate the help but I don't think this is a solvable situation, it's part of the game play and likely has been for some time and I don't want to make this an issue for sure. As with many games, they work for some but not others, I think I'm just one of those it's not going to work for due to my connection to servers.

[grey matter]

In a mod for another game I simply gave the players N seconds of invisibility right after spawning. This allows them to gain some speed before being noticed.

I'm uncertain whether this is the optimal solution, but in this case it works out pretty well. You might argue about whether to add invulnerability or whether those effects wear off once the player fires a weapon.

[Gig]

Drastic, I still think there is something strange.
Please, try setting your network settings as if you had a slower connection, and be sure you have a com_maxfps value your machine can handle constantly (cg_drawfps 1 may help you in finding out this). Check (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Framerate

Also use the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Lagometer]lagometer to check if you still have packet loss. If you don't have it, you may try to set cl_packetdup 0 (to send each packet only once instead of two times, this should save bandwidth, at the risk of some packets don't reach the server if you have packet loss).
See also (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak#Tweaking_online_gaming_parameters

PS: I don't know when I will have some time to do some tests using a 56k modem, but I'm very curious to try it... Q3 is playable (although you can't really compete with very good players if your connection sucks)... I'd like to test with OpenArena, too.

PPS: Maybe you may set your router to give "high priority" or "low latency" to OA network traffic, if it supports Quality of Service features. And I'd like to know your results of http://www.speedtest.net and http://www.pingtest.net (see also DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Multiplayer#Testing]here).

PPPS: You can also try playing on less crowded servers. Less players means it's less probable they will be around where you will spawn, and will cause less network traffic, too.

[Gig]

Okay, I've done a test with OA and a 56k modem. I didn't experience the respawn-lag you mentioned, except when spawning for the first time (when entering the match).

First, I connected a FFA server where there were three or four bots playing. Although I had a ping higher than 200 (of course, with a 56k!), I did not have problems... well, some "retard" in gameplay was noticeable... but nothing as you described. I never got fragged before being able to move, the lagometer never went to its upper part (except when I entered the match).

Then I tried with a FFA sever with instant-gib option (in this mode, a problem like yours should be especially noticeable, due to the death at first hit)... it had something like 6 human players and a bot, I'm not sure. This time, I experienced some network issues at the beginning (difficulty in movement in general, not limited to respawning), but it was due to the fact I didn't change the network type in my configuration yet.... it was still set to ADSL, so it was using more bandwidth than what a 56k can handle. I changed the setting to 56k, and everything worked well. At times, the lagometer went yellow for a while (anyway not going to its upper part, except at the initial spawn), but again I didn't notice any particular lag on respawning (except at the first spawn). (In a very few minutes of play), I have never been respawn-fragged. Well, maybe players there were not very "pro" (I was capable of scoring some frags even with that high ping), but anyway I didn't experience your problem.

So, please try working with your settings, as suggested in the post above.

[Drastic]

Okay, I've done a test with OA and a 56k modem. I didn't experience the respawn-lag you mentioned, except when spawning for the first time (when entering the match).

First, I connected a FFA server where there were three or four bots playing. Although I had a ping higher than 200 (of course, with a 56k!), I did not have problems... well, some "retard" in gameplay was noticeable... but nothing as you described. I never got fragged before being able to move, the lagometer never went to its upper part (except when I entered the match).

Then I tried with a FFA sever with instant-gib option (in this mode, a problem like yours should be especially noticeable, due to the death at first hit)... it had something like 6 human players and a bot, I'm not sure. This time, I experienced some network issues at the beginning (difficulty in movement in general, not limited to respawning), but it was due to the fact I didn't change the network type in my configuration yet.... it was still set to ADSL, so it was using more bandwidth than what a 56k can handle. I changed the setting to 56k, and everything worked well. At times, the lagometer went yellow for a while (anyway not going to its upper part, except at the initial spawn), but again I didn't notice any particular lag on respawning (except at the first spawn). (In a very few minutes of play), I have never been respawn-fragged. Well, maybe players there were not very "pro" (I was capable of scoring some frags even with that high ping), but anyway I didn't experience your problem.

So, please try working with your settings, as suggested in the post above.

First of all, thanks for all the helpfulness, far more than I expected. All has been good with the connection now and in fact, they found a splice in a line and re-routed our servers, which now after being done, my connection has been near perfect. I was playing Cube but the community is not friendly like here, and the cheaters and hacks are numerous, to the point of more of them it seems and I really pulled the short straw even trying to handle that situation. That said, I came back here but only to say goodbye here as well and I fear I've run out of gaming options unless anyone has any more ideas.

Alien Arena, since the whole make over, plays like total shit excuse the language but it's most fitting.
Cube, too many hacks and cheaters to enjoy and when you get good at insta, you get banned from servers from those who lose.
Red Eclipse, nice game, decent people, just don't like the way it plays at all.
Quake live, bah.
Open Arena, great people, but can't find where the hit boxes are, no matter where I aim, I don't ever hit anyone, right on, left, right, up , down, it's like there are no hit boxes. I aim wildly, yeah, then I hit. The physics make no sense to me here but they must to some obviously since there are really great players.

Any suggestions? I just want to play a game like Cube or Quake, no odd play, no anti-lag, no running on walls, just a good ol' shoot em up. I doubt this exists any longer but was hoping someone would know. I fear being 41 years old, the days of basic instagib and dm are long gone and I'll simply have to revert to knitting! :/  Don't let this happen to me!!     kidding of course. 

[Gig]

Let me understand, do you say now you don't experience the spwaning problem anymore, but you fell OA gameplay is not what you are searching for, due to its unconventional physics (including stafe jumps, rocket jumps and the other DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Techniques]techniques)?

[grey matter]

You may want to give QuakeWorld a try.

[Drastic]

Let me understand, do you say now you don't experience the spwaning problem anymore, but you fell OA gameplay is not what you are searching for, due to its unconventional physics (including stafe jumps, rocket jumps and the other DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Techniques]techniques)?

Well, not exactly.

If I can explain better, maybe it's just something I'm overlooking.

As with Instagib in Open Arena here for example, every other game like this i've played, when you shoot at someone, if you are obviously aiming on them, you hit them. It's been this way for Quake, Alien Arena, Xonotic, Cube and every other, even Red Eclipse, you know where to hit someone. With Open Arena, it's as if there is no hit point unless they are directly in front of you, else it seems impossible to hit anyone, like the shots are NEVER where they are according to the crosshair. If I jump, aim and shoot and someone is below me, the shot literally shows 3 feet behind them or wherever. Even though the crosshair is directly on them. I guess it's as if the shot takes two seconds to get there, I don't know. I have played many games over the years, not just quake types and never had this issue so again, maybe I'm over looking it. There is with many, a hit point like when someone is running sideways, you aim just before they get there and fire, but in Open Arena, even that doesn't work. if someone jumps over head from platform to platform, no matter where you shoot, it's as if the timing is off. 

So if my explanation is better now, just where are you supposed to aim in this game to hit anyone? If I just fire at random around a player, I tend to hit them but doesn't leave me much of a score. I've tried aiming before target gets to point A, right on target, before target, left and right of target, but I keep failing to hit anything at all.


 I've played near every fps shooter there is, searching for a basic instagib, dm, etc... while some have this others are tweaked to play differently which is fine but not everyone's liking. Cube and Xonotic are the closest I've come to this but Xonotic is VERY ping dependent, if you have high ping, others with low ping will stomp you, reaction times vary greatly between the two and the only insta server that most are on, is all low pingers, again, Cube has way too many hacks and cheaters and those who ban you for winning. I guess I am being picky considering they are all free games but if I am not going to have fun playing, then free just isn't enough.

I don't like most of the new online games or many at all, over blown graphics and not much game play. Again, Open Arena has the best player base for decent people I've seen, so that's A+ but the game play itself is the oddest I've seen as well. Does that make sense? I hope so in some regard.

Thanks again.

[Gig]

First of all, can you tell if you experience similar problems when playing online only or also when playing offline?

Secondly, do you have lag compensation on or off (program asks first time you enter multiplayer menu, or from game options menu, IIRC)?

Third, if you mess up with some parameters (e.g. timenudge and projectilenudge... see "Tweak" page on the wiki), you may make such things better or worse...

[Drastic]

First of all, can you tell if you experience similar problems when playing online only or also when playing offline?

Secondly, do you have lag compensation on or off (program asks first time you enter multiplayer menu, or from game options menu, IIRC)?

Third, if you mess up with some parameters (e.g. timenudge and projectilenudge... see "Tweak" page on the wiki), you may make such things better or worse...

Hi Gig,

Well, oddly enough, it plays very well in single. I actually set up my own server against two bots, insta, and it's very different, likely how it SHOULD work so it must be an online issue. Good thinking    Unfortunately, I'm not sure what that means for me then.

I do have unlag hitscan on, that's the only lag option available at all.

Does this mean I need to hit the tweaks? Sorry, I've not had to do this in a game before, tweak for online play like this so I am very thankful for your help.

[Drastic]

I think the issue is my ping, no matter what fps I play, I think that is what causes the quirkiness. The more that join, the worse it gets. I don't understand, aside from server routing why I have such high ping everywhere compared to others but yeah, it's my connection still. It's just going to be that way so either I deal with it or give up gaming. Not much choice there.

EDIT: Well, again, tried to open the router, etc... no change. I was actually getting whipped by campers if that tells you anything. Not to mention good players taking spawn points, makes it really difficult. Anyway, besides the point,  on most games I have such a damn high ping, I am running a 30 meg service, you wouldn't guess it. The routing must be horrible, that's the only explanation. If I bother to do a tracert, it seems this telia.net is what gives me trouble other games I play that are open source fps as well, the below image was to the city insta server, plus several timeouts after which i didn't screenshot.



I dunno. Not much I can do about that then.    Years back, there was no high ping jumps in the tracert even with high ping, it was gradual, and still, a player could play, you just had to get used to it. I used to be on 512 service and played fine, now up to 30 megs and can't play. It seems now with this sort of thing along with anti-lag which only makes it worse in my opinion, there are many who will never get to have a decent connection. Be it the routing used by the internet companies or just the routing itself, doesn't matter really.

Ah well. Gaming days are gone it seems, time for something else to fill my little free time I get.

[Gig]

Could you please run the tests at http://www.speedtest.net and http://www.pingtest.net and post results?

[Drastic]

Could you please run the tests at http://www.speedtest.net and http://www.pingtest.net and post results?

Sure...



and....


(note at the time I have my son running his nexus google pad wirelessly plus his laptop, plus his pc being used by other son watching simpsons online while I did the tests.)
Typically I play when no one is using the net.

[Gig]

With a such huge bandwidth, a ping comparable to a good ADSL, and no packet loss, I don't know how it is possible you get problems when playing online games...

Did you said you tested playing in many OpenArena servers, or you are used to choose always the same, because you search for a specific gametype?

[Drastic]

With a such huge bandwidth, a ping comparable to a good ADSL, and no packet loss, I don't know how it is possible you get problems when playing online games...

Did you said you tested playing in many OpenArena servers, or you are used to choose always the same, because you search for a specific gametype?

Well, I prefer insta, however I would play dm as well, near every server for me ranges from 120 to over 200 ping. Mainly in the 160-170's for most. Also I will show another screenshot here, you can see a ping hike which is from a lower ping server. I do get packet loss in game btw, the more that join, the worse it gets on some servers. Like insta [HARD] server, I get packet loss there all the time and others, which of course shows right in the graph and coincides with more odd play at the same time.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us