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i would love to see an open source FPS with counter strike style game play... i like some CTF and DM like the next man, but by far my favourite way to play is a team based tactical style gameplay...

:)

hi shrewd.user,

good news, openarena does have a team deathmatch mode.

if you want to play against bots, click single player, then select the skirmish button at the base of the screen, on the page this takes you to is a line the "game type" option followed by "free for all". if you click on free for all it will take you through the various gametypes, one of which is "team deathmatch"

if you choose multiplayer you can either select "create" and start your own server. the gametype can be set to team deathmatch in the same way as for single player. or you may be able to find and join a team deathmatch server online.

enjoy.
white haired boy.

thanks for the reply, but team deathmatch isn't exactly what i'm after in an open source FPS...

have you ever played counter-strike?

i not really expecting anyone to try and make a clone or anything, just testing the water to see what kind of a response the idea generates from open source gaming groups...

thanks.

Counterstrike is for sissies. 

Well, if you want free but don't mind closed-source, the Enemy Territory mod called True Combat: Elite would be what you're looking for.

Otherwise, I don't know of any.

Well, it wouldn't be hard to engineer such gameplay.
Kick health down to 15, make weapons spread like hell when continously firing and going in a straight line when shooting a single bullet at a time, much more spread when jumping...the one that gets me stumped is the whole "buy stuff" thing...

There are plenty of mods that will work for Open Arena which are for realism teamplay. You could try Reaction Quake 3 (not my favorite, but you could try it), or perhaps Urban Terror. I like True Combat for Quake 3 the best...never really tried TC:E for Wolfenstein ET.

thanks for the replies guys, i was kind of expecting a lot of poeple who aren't into the whole CS thing...

TCE has a few problems which really stop it being a good cross platform counter strike replacement: it's not open source, it's not standalone...

as for many other suggestions, their level of quality isn't up to par and they're also not open source.... there's a million quake-like open source FPS which recreate the quake game modes (probably thanks to the fact that ID released the source, and the fact that open source coders seem to prefer the style of gameplay) but nobodies tried to do more...

it would be great to find some open source stuff out there and try to implement them as game modes in one stand alone open source game... i'm mainly thinking a game mode like CS and maybe one like Team Fortress.... i'm sure there are heaps of models out there which are licensed under the creative commons... (there are literally millions of model replacement packs for games like CS)

I think adding these game types would attract more developers and more cross development as well as appeal to a broader community...

hello again, shrewd.user,

when i pointed out that there was a team deathmatch mode in openarena i wasn't suggesting that it would provide the type of gameplay you were talking about, but it does cover the "team based" part of what you are looking for.

the strategic gameplay is a very different matter. i have played a little bit of counterstrike in my time and i think the maps are the crucial difference here. so far, openarena maps have tended to be tight and twisty, which is perfect for fast deathmatches, but the matches in counterstrike tended to feature a lot more open spaces and buildings, where strategic gameplay becomes not only possible, but necessary. i think if these type of maps were added to openarena then the strategic gameplay would follow.

i've been dabbing with a bit of character modelling, but it's mapping that i'm really interested in. i'd be interested in your input on this one because i haven't played enough strategic first person shooters to understand what makes a good map for this type of game. if you could share some thoughts on this it would be a great help.

thanks.
white haired boy.

i would be happy to help, my brother and i are somewhat veterans of the genre, and understand the issues you raised well....

i would love to see openArena try out many differen't game modes and styles of play, as this would really make it open and accessible. heck maybe one day even a type of advanced CTF like battlefield could be done with largish outdoor environments and vehicles....

for now i think it would be easiest to extend the gameplay slightly and include a TeamFortress style mode of play (and have corresponding maps named Ft_* for fortress?)

this type of game play/ game rules wouldn't be hard to implement, it just needs some player classes and some symmetrical levels (all of the original team fortress maps already exsist for the q3 engine...)

thanks for listening... :)

never mind guys, i just read in the wiki that this game will never implement new game modes or change the gameplay...

hello shrewd.user,

where did you find this wiki? i had a look on the homepage (http://openarena.ws) and i didn't see any links to it.

white haired boy.

hello shrewd.user,

found the wiki, it was one of the links on the wikipedia page. i think the page you were referring to might have been this one....
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena/NOTTODO
...where they posted a list of things they "possibly can not do, due to limitations of the engine", one of which was change the gameplay.

ok, it was awkwardly worded, but the way i read it they were warning people that due to limitations of the engine there was a possibility that they might not be able to change the gameplay. that doesn't neccesarily mean that they are against the idea of changing the gameplay, so don't give up hope yet.

even if no-one on the openarena team was interested in adding new types of gameplay to openarena that doesn't mean you can't do it. remember openarena is an entirely gpl game, which means that you bits of it and incorporate them into a new game, as long as that new game is also gpl.

i've never played team fortress before, but i've had a look at some wikipedia articles and i've got the general idea, different players have different weaponary and skills. i wouldn't know how to re-write the gameplay to acheive this, but a good start would be to make maps without weapon pickups and make the players choose a weapon at the start of the fight. the machine gun could be beefed up a bit to be the heavy weapon, the rail gun could be the weapon for snipers, the grenade launcher could be used for clearing bunkers, etc. it would only be a temporary hack until something better was produced, but it would be a step in the right direction.

i've also been putting some thought into larger scale tactical maps, but i really don't know where to start. i'm going to have a look and see if i can find any tutorials on designing maps, if you know of any good ones could you post some links. also, is there any chance you could do a bit of brainstorming with people you game with and come up with a few guidelines to what makes a good tactical map.

thanks.
white haired boy.

thanks.
white haired boy.

It's called modding. For the sake of compatibility, the gameplay will be as vanilla as possible.

*sigh* there's plenty of open source quake like games... plenty...

@shrewd.user:
as leileilol said the project "openarena" needs to stay a pure q3 game so that it is compatible with all released mods out there.
BUT this is an opensource game and everyone can alter the gameplay in everyway you want and release it as a new game. Actually with OA as a base it is easier than ever to create an open source counterstrike game (all content is already there) - but it won't be called OA.

cheers MilesTeg

i didn't mean to waste people's time, i just didn't realise the purpose of this game (now i realise its sort of like freedoom)

<pimp>
There's always Fortress Evolution

http://evolution.quakedev.com (http://evolution.quakedev.com)

Its still under development though.
</pimp>

one of the reasons for openarena being kept the same as Q3 is so you can use thinks like TCE without Q3. also the people who make mods like TCE can make a standalone game by using openarena as a base

raynorpat-
nice link. gorgeous looking game. i'll be keeping an eye on this one.

smithamax-
i don't think tce isn opensource, so i'm fairly sure they couldn't actually incorporate openarena into a standalone game. nothing to stop them providing an openarena download link and some explanations on their site though.

The bad thing about that is that, unlike freedoom, you cant play mods like TCE in multiplayer with people that use the original content. So you can't enter to the big community within each individual mod if they keep using the original quake3.

Maybe the OA enchanced mod is a good idea.

Uh...just so you guys know, TC:E is a RTCW:ET mod, not a Quake 3 mod. You guys are referring to the original True Combat.

...anyhow, carry on, just wanted to mention that...

It was a Q3 mod before they decided to go with ET.

I know it was. Just saying that you can't refer to TC:E as a Quake 3 mod, since it isn't. That's all I'm saying

I'm working at making a free and opensource alternative mod to Urban Terror(wich is an counter strike like) based on OA. if anyone can help.. either by proposing idea, graphics, codes.. 

i've been having similar ideas myself. you got a website or a wiki yet?

No not yet I'm looking for more interested people to work on that project cuz i'm unexperienced for such things.and then well start.
well the ioUrbanTerror source is gpl since it is based on ioquake3, so we can use it as a base but not the graphics, textures, and other stuff they are not gpl :-(
you can download the source from:http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/urbanterror/iourbanterror/source/ (http://ftp.snt.utwente.nl/pub/games/urbanterror/iourbanterror/source/)
the urban terror website: http://www.urbanterror.net/news.php (http://www.urbanterror.net/news.php)

Uh, ioUT is only the engine, not the gamecode. They're too selfish to GPL the gamecode because they're afraid of competition.

The real question:  is the game code linked to the engine or is that an aggregation of another work?

I think the gamecode is fully interpreted for security reasons (I think ioquake added the possibility for dynamic linking but I can imagine several vulnerabilities if such mods could be automatically downloaded).

Interpreted means it counts as pure data http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL)

It is possible that the gamecode is based on the SDK code that is copyrighted, but only idsoftware can do something about it and they most likely don't care anymore. And under some jurisdictions it might not even be a problem.

No, the GPL is interpreted nearly the same in all jurisdictions what isn't interpreted the same is what counts as an aggregation and or separate program:  example (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2006/08/msg00552.html) (Read the entire thread to get the full  effect) according to Joerg Schilling and his lawyer the CDDL build system of cdrtools (And the CDDL itself) was compatible with the GPL, whereas in the US it is not because the build system is not considered an aggregate (The CDDL is not GPL compatible BTW, Sun Microsystems wrote it to be specifically GPL incompatible, much like the MPL).

The question still stands, is it linked or an aggregate.

The assets are obviously an aggregate and as such do not have to be under the GPL, which is why it is legal to release a game engine under the GPL and have non-free assets.

I was not thinking about the GPL. I was thinking on the original license of the SDK/non-engine-part before it was GPLed.

And I will still say that gamecode is fully interpreted and therefore not linked to the engine.

we'll make better game and under GPL, I'm excited about it since it will be the first open source game of that kind :-)   

I am not convinced of that, the "interpreted" code is compiled at runtime and makes calls to the engine in such a way as they could be considered linked.  I just don't see the gamecode as being an aggregate.  Now it is possible (as you said) that they are still using the earlier license on top of the GPL licensed engine, but that may not be legal either.  IIRC QuakeLives tried the same stunt with an earlier quake engine and we all know how that ended up (Carmack threatened a lawsuit and they quit distributing because the author didn't want to share his source).

And this does concern us, you, and everyone else that chooses to use the GPL as if it is a violation and people turn a blind eye to it, it weakens the legal viability of the GPL in court.  Besides, wouldn't the world be a better place if people shared more?


Sweet :)

Western quake source is under GPL and still actively developed.Maybe we can use it as a base since it is more realistic.

Nah, i'd be wary of those who are "GPLing" their mod SDK-derived source