OpenArena Message Boards

I don’t know if I am the only one noticing this but it seems more and more new players are using the handicap system. Is there a way in the next version we can put a notice that says it effects them and not there enemy because after talking with some they seem to think it effects the enemy and not them. Also I was wondering if it would be possible to include a small manual that tells things about the game like about the items and what they do, the objectives of each game type and the hazards such and voids, lava, and slime. I feel that including this stuff would help make the learning process much easier.

I have just added a notice to handicap.

I don't know many players that read a manual at least not until they are into the game.

About gametypes I wonder if it would be possible to have these "Attack", "Kill", "Destroy", "Go here", "Take" and "Defend" icons over objectives. Like in CTF: Your own flag would be marked "Defend" or "Go here" if you have the flag. Enemy flag carrier would have a "kill" icon, dropped flags a "Take". Own flag carrier would have a "Defend". Possible taking ones selected/assigned objective into account.

Could be turned off with a cvar after having learned the game.

I've thought about a help function too, but didn't know any other way than through cvars. In the end it became this (topic on our forum) (http://io.smfforfree3.com/index.php/topic,168.0.html), but it's not very usefull if you don't know the way commands work.
There should be a help button in the main and ingame menu I think.

I really don't think that the handicap option should be in the menu, tbh.

It's not like most newbies will ever need it, and the people who do need it can google the relevant cvar.

The number of people accidentally enabling this and then getting slaughtered with their 80% handicap is too high, and when you try to point it out to them, they usually don't know what you're talking about.

i agree with hellokitty - why is it even in there? i know quake 3 has it - but obviously too many new players think that it's beneficial for them :/

Help created by RMF is not bad..
You add the downloaded text to your %appdata%\baseoa\q3config.cfg file... then launch OpenArena and type /help in console. But I noticed that, after I exit OpenArena, all the text added is automatically removed from my q3config.cfg file... :-/ I don't know why.

Anyway, it is possible to put the whole "OAhelp.txt" downloaded file to baseoa folder, launch the game, type /exec oahelp.txt, and then you can type /help.
It gives a couple of errors (maybe some sections are too long or there is a line feed that disturbs? "/helpcmd" stops before its real end)... RMF, could you check this?

hm could be some are too long, I'll check it this afternoon or evening (now at school)

q3config.cfg is always overwritten each time you start the game.
You can use autoexec.cfg instead, it should do the trick.

I don't have such file in my OA installation folder or %appadata%\openarena folder (or subfolder). I tried to rename help file to autoexec.cfg and put into baseoa folder, but if I start OpenArena and then write /help, it doesn't work...

Then create it.

EDIT: Create it in openarena\baseoa.

As I told before, I renamed RMF's file and called it "autoexec.cfg". I tried it under installdir\baseoa and also under &appdata%\OpenArena\baseoa... but it didn't work...

UPDATE: Fixed... usually I show files' extensions in Windows, but some days ago I changed it to make a try... and I didn't remember about that. So I renamed OAhelp.txt to autoexec.cfg.txt and it appeared as autoexec.cfg. I've been very stupid... :-)

the whole thing should get an update actually. I did take a look yesterday and changed some things but actually forgot to reupload and post :( Can't do it now either cuz on mobile. I promise that if i will think of it i'll post tomorrow with all updates ;)

Thank you. I think it should be added to OA official releases, from now on. But "soil" (not an offence, simply I can't find the right words!) autoexec.cfg with such long text would be good? Or maybe it could be better to write down in the "readme" file "if you want in-game help, please type /exec oahelp.txt and then type /help"?

In autoexec.cfg:
Problem solved :)

@Gig, hm the thing is a few kB, think you should be able to load the ram that much without melting your house down no? :P
Oh and this is nothing compared to the wasted space used by sounds I've just seen.

I'm now checking if all works and then uploading..

edit: download http://easy-upload.nl/f/VgDRQMuP (http://easy-upload.nl/f/VgDRQMuP)
Just put in baseoa and should work ^^

I would like to have a separate file for my custom configuration and one for help (not for system resources, but for being more human-friendly, following a logic in files. A separate file can be simply replaced with a newer version without need to open and edit che autoexec file, manually dividing help from user configuration): Cacatoes' solution seems nice. RFM, do you want to try to pack it in that way?

You may include a readme similar to this:
What do you think about this?

PS: RFM, thank you for that guide. I would like to see you expanding the manual on the wiki site... you could give a great improvement there... I'm doing what I can to help offering a good help coverage (especially for beginners) there, but I'm not so prepared as other people here....

It's RMF not R-FM broadcasting or something lol.. on other forums my nick is often lucb1e, also mistaken for luc1be or other even weirder variants. And lastly my real name (Luc) is often written wrong as well - or rather it's more often wrong than right (Luuk or something). I can imagine something with lucb1e being misread or 'misremembered' when you read it fast, but why is it with all my names the same... :/
Anyway, what's the problem with putting it in one file? I usually go for the 'clean' method; one file and that's it. Not one file (autoexec.cfg) redirecting to another (oahelp.txt or whatever). IMO kinda doing double work.

Sorry for mistyping. Since we are talking about a manual, "RTFM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM)" acronym is in my mind... and confuses me about the order of the letters... ^_^

The problem with 1 file is that I think that it would be better if autoexec.cfg it used to actually store your extra configuration, not an help file. As I told before, an independent file could be updated simply replacing the whole file, instead of manually copy-paste the text to your custom autoexec.cfg.

Anyway, now I think a thing... wouldn't be better if fromhell integrates your guide direcly inside OA source code? I know that in that case one would be able to update it only with a next release of OA, but using a config file is "dangerous" because allows people to overwrite the guide simply mistyping a letter. If I write "/help ò" instead of "/help", I will overwrite the help with the "ò" character, isn't it so?

hm it'll set the var to that weird o (cant make@phn) but not sure if itl'' stay changed. Also it might give the right text as 'default'.
About updating, well sure it'll be easier. But i actually don't know ppl who are keeping settings in autoexec.cfg, and if there are they know enough about what it does to understand howto update the help without loosing all. I don't expect this thing to be updated that often, but fromhell may see what he/she (idk) does with this in which way.

I tried with autoexec.cfg and with /exec oahelp.txt, and if you change that value, then it says the help "default is...". And (at least typing simply /help <erroneus key> - I didn't try with set, seta, sets...) changes are not saved to the help file.

Anyway, I'd like if fromhell may see this thread and say what he/she (I don't know) thinks.

Another thing: in the beginning of this thread, someone talked about "handicap" feature. So I created DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Player_settings]this page on the wiki (http://([b). Could you please check it (and fix if needed)? For example, for the section about "name", I'd like to say all the color codes ("blinking" included), someone knows?

Seems your description of handicap is very correct ;)

There are no blinking in baseoa. "^8" did not exist in Quake 3.

Thank you.
Maybe they were in OSP Q3A mod? Or maybe I just remember wrong...

That was OSP or alike.

Okay. DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Text_colors]Manual/Text colors (http://([b) page created on the wiki. :-) Thank you Sago.

No , I guess OSP displays ^8 as orange too.

The blinking text is/was available in the x-battle mod.

RMF, I was thinking to add the download link to your help file from the wiki (linking easy-upload server). I found a couple of small errors (giving only a quick see):
- An "interrested" (too many r?) in the end of /HELP main section
- /HELPCMD2 and some other are sections are not yellow like the others.

i'll edit it tomorrow and reupload. Thanks for spotting the errors and for adding (or going to add to) the wiki :D

No problem. Adding a link to a wiki site is very easy, easier than in a forum... ^_^
Anyway, I (or maybe also other people, because "four eyes are better than two", as we say in Italy) should give a better look to that file, searching for more errors.

Another thing, in HELPABOUT section... you already wrote that anyone can modify it, mentioning the original author... okay.. but what about writing inside it that you release it under GPLv2 and CC-BY-SA licenses? The first, for better integration with OpenArena (maybe someday fromhell may decide to put it inside an official package...); the second, to allow people to export text from there, for example adding it to a wiki site (many wiki sites use CC-BY-SA license)...
I see you talked about 0.8.1, right... what about indicating also "help version" or "help date" there, to specify what's the version of the help file?

Let's see...
- In the main "HELP" section: "For help with modes (CTF/DM/insta) type HELPMODES"... I suggest LIKE CTF/DM/insta, because there are many more modes.
- In the same section: "about this helpfunction" (space needed)
- HELPBTN section: I don't understand what do you mean with "A B C 1 2 3 F1 F2 F3". I suggest also to add "To customize your settings, use Setup -> Controls menu". Maybe also explaining to beginners what "bind" is would be nice.
- HELPCMD section: "If you want to know howto do something (example bind 'say' on T to another key), use '/bind T' to view what the setting is, and then retype that in /bind Y." (apart of the missing space between how ad to) is not so clear: bind <key> tells the command binded to that key, you can't know what key has assigned a certain command, right? I suggest to reword the whole sentence.
- HELPCMD2 section: I suggest "to execute custom pre-set configuration files (previously edited with a plain text editor outside the game)....".
- HELPCMD2 section. Say "example" instead of "exa", and tell what that example does: it changes the weapon to gauntlet (right?), waits 74 frames and then suicides your own character.
- HELPGUIDE section. Maybe we could add something like "Visit www.openarena.exe or openarena.wikia.com for more informations".
- HELPGEN section: "To look which maps you have, type /dir maps"... I would add also "or simply type /map and press TAB key"....
- HELPGEN section. It says how to switch to another window in Microsoft windows. I suggest also to tell how to switch from fullscreen to window mode (ALT+ENTER or from Setup -> System -> Graphics menu)... and to say how to do those things under Linux (or maybe also MacOS)
- HELPVAR section: "when something contains spaces always use ' ' around the text"... only ' ' or also " "? Would it be a techinical problem adding such characters to the help string?
- HELPVAR section: cg_drawgun is not only 0 or 1... if I'm not wrong, it can be also 2 (left) or 3 (center)...
- HELPVAR section: I would change the last sentence with "You can also execute previously set variables with /vstr VARNAME (you can store a specific command inside a variable and then execute that command this way)."
- HELPG section: I suggest to say what are default values.
- HELPVOTE section seems unfinished ("... will give..."?). You could also say that usually one can vote yes or no with F1 or F2.
- HELPMODES section, I suggest: DM --> Free For All (aka DeathMatch, DM or FFA)... Tourney --> Tournament... TDM --> Team TeathMatch (TDM)... obelisk --> Overload (aka Obelisk)...
- HELPMODES section: "For allweaps set insta and rockets to 0" --> "To restore normal weapon behavior (all weapons available), set \g_instantgib and \g_rockets to 0."
- HELPSETTINGS: again, cg_drawgun is not only 0 or 1.
- HELPSETTINGS: What's "sinde"? Did you mean "since"?
- HELPSETTINGS: "/name RMF"... why don't "/name yourname"?
- HELPSETTINGS: "crosshaid" --> "crosshair"
- HELPGFX: what about telling default gamma value? r_picmip max is 16.
- HELPABBR2: the F*ck word isn't with "u" instead of "a"?
- HELPPWD: Maybe a user could have a little problem with password ad Rconpassword difference. "When you haven't joined the server and someone changed your servers password and you want to change it back, you can use rconAddress." maybe talking about two different password here could be a little confusing.. what about talking about the case you can't connect to the server simply because all slots are busy? Just an idea...
- HELPFILE section. What about saying also about %APPDATA%/OpenArena shortcut? And about DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/FAQ#Where_are_the_configuration_files_saved.3F]data place in other OS? (http://([b) And about mentioning that also autodownloaded files go there? And what about writing "There is a separate sufbolder for each mod you played" instead of "There are all mods you have"?

I hope this will help.
PS: I find your guide nice. :-)

I hate licence crap, for hours of hard coding work you could add a licence but this isn't worth it. I trust the small community here is nice enough not to just get my work and release it as being their own ;)

It were just examples, I already had to shorten the first "help" command but ofc i can make a continued (HELP2) or something too.

oh yep, i typed most on my craptop (w2k laptop) and it's space is half broken

Well it are examples of keys.. But guess I can improve that :)
Every noob can use the setup so I disagree taking a whole sentence to explain what doesn't need to be explained. And the examples pretty much explain what bind does so.

hmm no you can't know that without just opening the config, but I think it's clear enough (or do you have some suggestion for a replacing sentence?).

Will do

kk

Ok will add something similar to that (first gotta test myself how it exactly works, never use it).

yeah the help was created just as reference not meant to be build-in. But if it's gonna be ofc i should add some link.

hm ye I'll ask some others for lin/osx and add the Win part

Yeah discovered lately that the single quotes don't work - but not sure if it displays them. Will test

oh didn't know (only heard about it for oau), will test and add.

Rather in HELPVAR I think

hm gotta look at that (don't have the file now - am at school and too lazy to dl it ^^)

Again I didn't expect ppl would really like it, that's why i only released on our forum but didn't here till someone brought up the topic. Will change

will have a look, not so familiar with other gametype synonyms than dm/ffa

prolly

I thought it was max 10.. oh well will try if picmip16 does something and note the gamma val

same, w/e :P

will have a look

%appdata% takes too long to explain and many users do it wrong (press some wrong keys or something).
And I don't see the use of changing that sentence but will reread it when im home and see if i change it.
For other os's I'll add it (was too lazy to lookup the location on lin/osx at the time of writing the original lol)

Sure it helps, and thanks ;)


edit: hmm i'll release it today, didn't have enough time for all improvements yesterday (i test everything before i write it so that takes time - for example cg_drawgun doesn't do anything but show or noshow, no other position).

I am used to work on Wikipedia, and respecting text license is very important there... :)

You think there isn't enough space for adding a single word ("like")?

I suggest something like "If you want to know what command is assigned to a specific key, just type /bind KEY. To create/modify a key binding, use /bind KEY COMMAND." If you want, you could even add "you can view your q3config.cfg file, that contains your settings, (see /HELPFILE) with an external plain text editor, or make backup copies of it"... but maybe it is not strictly necessary for a beginner's guide. Decide yourself.

I don't know if there is a way to use double quotes without "ending" the cvar where the help is stored (some programming languages require double double quotes to know it is not the end of the field).

I was talking about the two or three cvars you mention there (I'm not in front of the file now)

Not sure if it really changes something, but if you try to set a value higher than 16, an error informs you that 16 is the max value allowed.

Writing %appdata%\OpenArena seems more quick. Maybe you can just say that "a shortcut for going there is typing %appdata%\OpenArena". Newbies may not find even "Application data", because of it is an hidden folder.

Bye!  :)

crap still didn't finish it :P Only gotta do this one yetand read your last post.
Anyway what i've got so far (didn't test for errors, will do when i finish it) is here: http://easy-upload.nl/f/FkdkrdaX

Don't worry. Take your time.

Okay should work (can't test, but it's within the max line length of notepad which seems to be the same as OA's max string-variable length): http://easy-upload.nl/f/tV8ZX6gj

HELPCMD2: missing space between "75" and "frames". And are you sure about that "so" before pre-set?

I really must go now.... I don't think I'll be able to check the file today...

PS: I suggest you again to insert a "version number" or "date" to distinguish various versions of this guide....

HELPVAR section: when you write "Try for example with varname=g_speed and value=450", I suggest to add also ", so type \g_speed 450. To go back to standard speed, write \g_speed 320".

I see that HELPVAR section still talks about cg_drawgun as boolean (but it does not accept only 0 and 1)... so you haven't yet applied all the corrections I told you before. Can you update the file and upload the new version, so I could check it again? Thank you! :-)

well for me any value not 0 does the same as 1

What? Do you mean that 2 and 3 have been inserted only since 0.8.5? I thought that also Q3A allowed to change the weapon location... I will check this...

I checked, and both OA 0.8.1 and Q3A 1.32c it works only with 0 and 1. It seems 2 and 3 have been added (http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4070) in recent versions of ioquake3 engine.

Anyway, since from OA 0.8.5 this variable is not more boolean, I think we should use another one in the help to talk about boolean variables...

Yes , it was added to have the possibility to have gun centered or left-handed too .

It was boolean in quake 3 engine simply because it was possible to change gun position through cg_gunX , cg_gunY , cg_gunZ which were declared as cheat protected in ioquake3 , leaving gun position only right-handed.

cg_gun# adjusting for handedness is a bad idea

it should really be done by mirroring the _hand model, like quake2, and having a new hand model supported for center so we don't have 'recoil to the side effect', and this should be done in cgame not engine

Actually it was removed from ioquake3 for security reasons , mainly because of strange behaviours when set with negative values.

I've reported _ONLY_ the reason for which cg_drawgun was a boolean value.

The ioquake3 solution ( adding also 2 or 3 ) was an elegant solution for 2 problems : gun position and a potentially security hole removal.

well i use 081 and as it states the manual was written for 081. If we're gonna use 085 things we should create another version and add more things to that (like physics on server, changename limits, etc).

Yes, you are right.... but of sure there are many more variables that are boolean in both versions... why have we to use that one to explain what a boolean variable is?

Let's continue checking the guide...
- HELPCMD2 section: does not end with ^7, like the others
- HELPG: I suggest "^3For speed change use g_speed (default 320), gravity g_gravity (default 800), framerate independent physics on is pmove_fixed 1 and off is that variable to 0.^7"
- HELPCOL: it does not say that you have to use \name command to change name, and that you can still use black when talking. There are extra "^" before the 8 numbers (it should be ^ 8, not ^ ^ 8). The help section should end with ^7 like the others, I suppose.

And please, add some version number to that guide! :)

RMF, are you still there? :)

oh ye lol, only read new posts but forgot about this one. I'm inthe bus to school now so can't do anything the next hours but will do when back home ;)

http://easy-upload.nl/f/ptg6eipF
Can be some flaws in though, it appeared i had two different versions lol. Checked all till HELPSETTINGS, no time to check more now mom's waiting for me =)

edit: expanded the weapons part a lot (there are almost no resources on some weapons though, i couldn't find the exact nailgun speed anywhere for example so tried a little myself).
http://easy-upload.nl/f/nHwGiCls
Didn't re-read all yet though, only till HELPWEAPINFO2.

What about the two different versions? Did you re-downloaded the last version you uploaded here before (to have the same version I was talking about), and continued from there?

uhm not sure, did I miss something in the last version you said before?

- The first one is correcly fixed.
- In the second, you did not specified that to come back to original values you have to use 320 and 800,
- In the third, there are still the extra "^"...
- Thank you for the version number... and for the thank.. :-)

More...
I see that there is still cg_drawgun 1 as an example of a boolean value... why don't use something else for that example? For example, cg_forcemodel, or cg_drawfps...

Since when you only need one ^ then, it doesn't work for me..

I'm quite sure I pointed out somewhere that it'll tell you the default by just entering the variable name without anything behind it, but I have added it.

Because it is a boolean lol.. but fixed anyway.

Well ofcourse, you made some long posts and lots of suggestions and I appreciate that so this is the least i can do :)

http://easy-upload.nl/f/7W1IaRBG

- In HELP section: "How can I help you?"... "I", not "i" (repeated various times)...

- In HELP section: there are some "type HELPVAR, type HELPGFX" that maybe could be better with /: "type /HELPVAR, type /HELPGFX"?

- In HELP section: please add a "like" before "CTF/DM/insta", as I suggested before (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3725.msg32869#msg32869)

- In HELPCMD section: is it possible to add "/bindlist to see all key bindings, /unbind KEY to remove an association."?

- In HELPBTN section. Why don't add "You can find and use these names when working with key bindings. Type /HELPCMD for more info about key association."?

- In the HELPGUIDE section you could add "Type HELPABOUT for version information.", or something similar...

- In the HELPCOL section: I suggest to modify to "You can make colors in your name and in your text messages with ^ and then a number..."

I still don't understand... what happens to you if your HELPCOL says "For black (possible in names only BEFORE 085), use ^ 0 (without spaces) or ^ 8"? What does not work? I will try it with 0.8.1, but in 0.8.5 I don't understand the problem... :-/
PS: Maybe "0.8.5" would be more clear than "085"...

UPDATE: Maybe it is better to remove the sentence about the black color banned since 0.8.5: in the latest beta (046), they enabled black again (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.msg33556#msg33556), if you have at least a character of another color.

So that means black color is coming back?!!!!!!

I put the comments after //.

edit: ups forgotta upload lol, http://easy-upload.nl/f/hbGdWGbb that should be the right one (can't check i'm in a hurry for a job interview =) )

Ooops, I missed to notice your last post. I have no time to test it now, but don't worry! :)

- HELPFILE section: Windows Vista with the "V", not the "v" (I think Vista is a bad S.O., but its name is still with the uppercase "V") :)

For HELPCOL, I suggest to write simply this:

hmm I disagree for the colors. I hate undocumented functions and options, rather less clear for newbs (they'll get it in the end if they just try some things, that's why i also give the example for ^1^^0) as when it's not documented at all.
Changed the caps from Vista, but will upload another time (or if you think it's a huge mistake causing the earth to get blown up if I don't upload in time, i'll upload).

I don't like undocumented features, too...
But I still don't understand what do you want to show with that strange example.
What's the usefulness of seeing the first ^ in the normal color? Typing ^ ^ 0, a guy will see only a white (or green) "^", nothing more. The first ^ seems completely useless to me (and yes, I tried it with 0.8.1, too), why do you want to show it? "For black, use ^ 0 or ^ 8 (without spaces)." is enough, IMHO... or maybe "For black, use ^ 0 your_text or ^ 8 your_text (without spaces)".
Anyay, I propose to put black in the list with the other colors (as in my previous post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3725.msg33672#msg33672)), showing from 0 to 7. And if you really want to talk about 0.8.5 limitation, simply add "In OA 0.8.5 you cannot use black for your name." after a full stop.

After removing the useless ^ in the first part, the second part could be: "If you want to show a ^ symbol, simply do not place a number immediately after it; if you want to show a colored ^, place another one (with a number) before it: for example ^ 1 ^ ^ 2 Test (without spaces) shows ^1^^2Test."

Uhm, I don't want to show it, openarena just shows it.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The color code changed from 0.8.1 to 0.8.5, in 0.8.1 you had to use a double caret ^^ to create black lettering just like in quake, but in 0.8.5 a single caret ^ is enough.

I just tried in 0.8.1 (again)

I pull down the console, I type \say ^0hi, hit enter so I say a black "hi"... no need for double ^ ^....

In the "player settings menu", instead, the black seem to not work at all (^0 writes white), both with one or two ^.... like it would be expected for 0.8.5... strange...

And I checked, there is no "pak6-patch085.pk3" file in my %appdata%\openarena\baseoa folder, it is only inside my 0.8.5 installation folder, not in the 0.8.1 installation folder.

Anyway, I tried also starting the game with "openarena.exe +set fs_homepath ." (this DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/FAQ#Can_I_change_the_directory_to_where_configuration_and_autodownloaded_files_are_saved.3F]creates the config data in the installation folder (http://([b)), so to do not being disturbed by 0.8.5 config/autodownloaded files in my %appdata% folder.
But the "player settings menu" works as I told here, the black color seems to act like white, using one or two ^....

It' s about the names and not about the say command or isn' t it?

Here are my results:

	0.8.1 (chat):	0.8.1 (scores):	0.8.5 (chat):	0.8.5 (scores):
\name "^1my^^8test"	my^test	my^test	my^test	my^test
\name "^1my^8test"	mytest	mytest	mytest	mytest

I think it should be in general, with the addition of specific notes for limitations in name.

If, in 0.8.5, ^8 appears as black in the console and as orange in the "player settings" menu and in the score table, I think we can call this a bug.

No offense, I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding about double vs. single carets: it depends on the OA version. You don' t need double carets to produce black lettering at all in 0.8.5, you do need double carets to produce black lettering in player names in older versions of OA.

edit:
Don't get RMF started on this bug/feature ;)

By the way, yout ried with ^0... for the double ^, is it the same with ^0? Maybe ^8 isn't officially supported in 0.8.1...

Oh... I just found out another thing you did not put in your example table:
In 8.0.1:
\name "^1my^8test"
it's all red (mytest as in your example) in the score table... but in the console it is correctly mytest... another bug, I suppose...

I never could get ^0 to work in names. I've added the 0.8.1 console results to the table (and now poor RMF has got to decide what to put in the manual).

The thing which always works in 081 as the manual states all is written for OA0.8.1 :)
And as that is the double ^ it will remain as it is. Poor RMF decided :P

Thanks for the table though. It's clearer what is possible in which version now, no matter what's going in the manual. cake++;

edit: started on an 085 version. Only did the color thing so far, but I'm looking for other changes atm (going to look at the news and development section in a second).
Updated downloads: 081 (http://easy-upload.nl/f/o6Qhzj1L) - 085 (http://easy-upload.nl/f/DrzBIsiV). Unfortunately same filename, might be changed but then users will have to rename it. Think it's better to get different filenames but your opinion please :)

No cake for me that I'm following your manual from weeks? And that pointed out the missing example in 7's table (later added)?  :RIP:

Just kidding, I don't care about cakes much...  ;)

You already have had 8.. oh well here you did deserve it ofcourse :P

And you just got one cake for finally thinking about 0.8.5. You will get another one when we'll put a "definitive" help file version online.

I'm sorry I cannot help you for custom votes: there should be something here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.msg22589#msg22589), but probably it's too complicated for the in-game help... We should talk about it on the wiki...

hmm been looking for new 085 features, but can't really find a lot of vars or console commands. And that's what the manual mainly focusses on. Things like how the game works in general and where files are located for example didn't change so.. Is there a complete list of new commands/cvars somewhere?

Maybe a developer could answer this question...

Well, what do you say about publishing the 0.8.1 guide on the wiki, in the meanwhile?

I think we could link it DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/FAQ#Is_there_a_manual_for_the_game.3F_Can_I_help_expanding_it.3F]here (http://([b) (maybe there we could say that if someone wants to help expanding it, he can contact you using this forum or in someother way) and creating and "Ingame help" section DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual]here (http://([b).
When you will publish new releases of the help, you'll have to update the links in these two pages.

We should also write two lines about how to use it:

If it is ok for you?

Yep :) Where is it going to be posted?

What do you mean? :-/ I mentioned in the previous message the two pages where I'd like to put the link (and how to use it... unless you want to publish a .zip file and include a txt help file (README.TXT?) with how to install and use the in-game help)...

What about taking a look to the full 0.8.5 changelog?

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3548.msg30774#msg30774

oh wait.. I read in a rush, and links have the same color as any other text (and aren't underlined or anything till mouseover).
..
Ok I checked the links. Not sure where it would fit on the manual page, or if it would actually fit at all. For the FAQ, well, exactly where you pointed something could be written :)

Nah it should just be autoexec.cfg with online instructions. Zipping and then having to open a second file to install it (while it could also be on the page where you just downloaded it from) seems only more work for the user.

But actually I just had an idea; whynot get the manual itself in the wiki on an own page? Everyone can edit, add, and fix any mistakes without having to download a fresh copy, edit that, reupload it, and everyone having to synch it again. Only problem would be howto get the download autoupdated (or rather after a moderator or something approved the changes).


Thanks Neonknight for the link.

I see the links with a slightly different color from standard text (dark blue instead of black) and, more important, they are always underlined. Taking a quick look to my forum options, I don't see an option to control it... maybe is it a setting of your browser? I use Firefox, and there it should be under Tools -> Options -> Content -> Colors (or something similar, my menu is in Italian).

It could be nice, but there are some problems:
- The wiki site is much less active than the forum... :-( Few people actually writes there (I feel lonely, there...). The only developer that I sometimes see there is Sago...
- I don't know a way to have such download autoupdated. We could anyway use a wiki page as a "sandbox" where people can fix and expand it, but it may be difficult to be sure about the X characters variable limit, and in the end we need someone to update and upload somewhere the resulting file.
- We could tell people to create that .cfg file by themself (using a text editor copy-pasting the text from that page on the wiki to a text file), but since it's intended also as a beginner's guide, wouldn't it be a bit complicated (also because .cfg is not the standard file extension for text files)?

I don't know what to do...

Most likely I use the old skin. Screenshot: http://easy-upload.nl/f/zXA9KeRb

I actually only look there when I need something, so don't often come across errors or things to be improved. But when I spot something I always improve it.

I am working on a page dedicated to this. It's not a website, just a little page where everyone can edit it. We'll have two versions, the publicly edited one and an approved one by someone with the password. --if it all works out like i want it, but I expect so--

Nah I know the trouble with the windows 'hide known extensions' function. About two days ago someone tested a program I made (beta), and he had to enter the filename for the input file. There was a file let's say abc.txt in the program folder so he entered that and it could not be found. What appeared to be the problem, he had that function on, and the real filename was abc.txt.txt. A great example why it should be auto-disabled with the first windows update but Microsoft doesn't listen to me :(

By default it had some Microsoft Office icon here, not sure if it'd hide the extension as it did ask me what program to open it with first time I tried to open it.

Let's just put the version we now have on the wiki, and also put a link to the page I'm building (ETA this evening (now 15h here) or tomorrow).

Ok here's my modifier:
http://ioclan.site11.com/oamanual/
Todo:
- last saved datetimes for both versions
- maybe a history for the files (especially the unapproved one)
- little bit of graphics
- suggesions?

I won't be able to work on it much more till monday though, going to a lanparty this weekend and we're gaming all the time with like 5hours of sleep both nights combined. Any hour of sleep I can catch I will, and as the rest is gaming I probably won't work on this ;) I should be getting my stuff now actually, went about 90mins over schedule finishing :(

edit: oh and I didn't betatest everything for bugs. I tested the basic functions ofcourse if what I programmed worked like I hoped it would, but I didn't test anything twice (after modifying another part of the code for example) or test any combinations. So if you spot any bugs please report :)

Veeeeery nice! :-)
Almost a small home-made wiki! :-)
A suggestion could be to hold an history of the "unapproved" versions, so if someone realizes he did a mistake after having saved, he could load a previous version.

Anyway, I feel it could be very difficult to track changes, because there is no a "diff" (very difficult to create, I suppose) function like in a real Wiki, that points out what changes from the previous approved version.

I will not be able to do extended tests in the next days: I'm going to go on holiday, so I will not be on the forums for about 8-10 days. See you later!  :)

Yeah a difference function is too hard for me. I could at most point where the first change is (which line and which position), and if two files are the same. History and modify times are (hopefully) going to be made monday.
Added some graphics to the todo list btw (current looks very plain). I totally suck at it, but a little bit should be possible.

Have fun on holidays :)

RMF, what happened to the "manual develpment page"? The whole ioclan website has gone!

yeah i know :'(

Lost 2x1tb harddrives this summer, and on top of that my account at 000webhost got deleted (which contained mostly any php script i ever wrote).
I didn't actually think anyone would notice, but you seem to so if you want i could just rebuild it. Would have an old version of the manual though, the site backup was on one of my harddrives...

Probably, it is not worth the effort to re-create the whole web edit interface... The manual was almost ready, and we can do it using the forum.

Reading this thread backwards, it seems to that the latest version you uploaded here was in this post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3725.msg33736#msg33736) (dated 12 july), but the download link doesn't work anymore (it seems that easy-upload.nl has gone, too!).
On my PC, I found two files where the last modify date seems 11 july 2010, and one where the last modify date seems 12 july 2010. I attached them here. Maybe you have a later version...

Knowing easy-upload, it'll be back shortly.

I don't have any version anymore, as I said I lost both my harddrives (one was a backup of the other, but they both broke within days from each other so I didn't get the time to re-backup).

RMF, did you take a look to the files I attached in my previous post? Do you remember which version was the latest?

Well the from 12-07-2010 has version number 016, the other two 015. I guess that's the newest ;)

Btw, I've been trying to reach the guy from easy-upload.nl, but seems he's on holidays or has no internet. He isn't responding at the forum and a couple of people have tried to reach him (half the DutchGamemakerCommunity's games&files are down now too lol).

edit: He said today (12 'o clock CET) he was going to look into the problems, had no idea what it was (weird error he said).

i haven't tested yet (cellphone), but they say easyupload is back online. Was something weird with the dns.
Will download the lastest version and compare with the one you had tomorrow :)

Just looked at these versions, the 081 is also version 016 so think it's the same :)

Okay... do you think you will give a final re-read of it and then add a link on the Wiki site? I don't remember if I had some suggestions to improve it at that time, maybe scroll this thread back...

I'll find some time this evening :)
edit: oh crap forgot this.. Tomorrow then *puts it in the agenda*

Just realised the game competition I'm participating in ends this tuesday, so kinda rushed through it and didn't read everything. Made some minor improvements on a few things in the 081 version though and read back the topic a bit. Think most things were in or decided not to be put in.
http://easy-upload.nl/f/t3d4IKT0
Mirror: http://updo.nl/file/8da4f053.cfg

Put it here with a little bit explaination:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual#Advanced_information

As promised, you got your cake!

But I'm sorry, I just found an error...

section HELPMODES:
you say that gametype 2 is tournament or tourney.... wrong.
Gametype 1 is tournament, aka 1vs1 or tourney.... gametype 2 is single player deathmatch (do not use in skirmish or multiplayer modes).

#018
http://easy-upload.nl/f/qMn7ABLX
http://updo.nl/file/d3e1f329.cfg

Also updated the manual page.
Thanks again ;)

I downloaded it, but it still seems 017, and with the error...

PS: when updating the link on the wiki, please update also the version number (I wrote it there, with small fonts, to let the users know that is the current version).

hmm weird.. I'm quite sure i uploaded the right version, but appearently not. Will fix tomorrow (writing this on mobile).

hm odd, it seems the file wasn't saved or something. Didn't see any warning for unsaved changes on closing.
Oh well I'll re-edit.

#018
http://easy-upload.nl/f/dalCnzGq
http://updo.nl/file/c2e0efcf.cfg
Tested this time, can't be wrong :)

edit: Updated wiki, with the version numbers, and tested ^^.

Good, very good.  :)

Now I've contributed to OA =D

And it took only 1,5 years.

You deserve a cake and all my applauds. :)

"only" :P

Thx anyway :)