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OpenArena Contributions => Development => Topic started by: iLeft.bye on November 26, 2007, 08:53:32 am



Title: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 26, 2007, 08:53:32 am
I really wonder
they added md4 support which was never popular
some minor bugfixes
etc
any noticeable ones?


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: w1zrd on November 26, 2007, 09:55:48 am
I really wonder
they added md4 support which was never popular
some minor bugfixes
etc
any noticeable ones?
Quote from: ioquake3 README
2006-01-24 Various contributors
   + Persistent console history
   + Added code to sleep a bit when q3 has no focus and sleep a lot when it's
      minimised (SDL only)
   + Cull excess speaker entities when using OpenAL
   + Fix the operation of the delete key in *nix
   + Only check the checksum on baseq3 pak0.pk3
   + Overhaul of console autocompletion
      - No longer does weird stuff like move the cursor inappropriately
      - Autocomplete works with compound commands
      - Special autocomplete on some commands e.g. \map, \demo
      - Removed various hacks used to counter the original autocomplete code
   + Fixed the ability to disable Ogg Vorbis
   + s/i686/i586/ - see bug #2578
   + Some sloppily coded mods call the Q3 sound API with NaNs -- sanitise this
   + Removed advertising clause from BSD license as per mailing list discussion
   + "make distclean" now does what you'd expect
   + "make clean toolsclean" now does what "make distclean" did before
   + GPL MD4 implementation

2006-01-16 Various contributors
   + Move code/unix/Makefile to ./Makefile
   + x86 OS X support
   + "quake3" shell script as shipped with 1.32 (on linux) no longer needed
   + Ogg codec support from Joerg Dietrich
   + Fix to the gcc4/-O0 x86 JIT compiler bug
   + Up the defaults for zone and hunk memory since some mods (UT) have large
      memory requirements that will have increased versus 1.32b due to some of the
      alignment fixes
   + Dependency generation for the .asm files
   + Remove FS_SetRestrictions
   + Add FS_CheckPak0 for better error messages where dumb users are involved
   + Added cl_autoRecordDemo, which when enabled automatically records a new demo
      on each map change
   + Only display the g_synchronousClients warning when it's appropriate
   + Remove custom memcpy/memset code
   + AVI video output
      - Uses motion jpeg codec by default
      - Use cl_aviFrameRate to set a framerate
      - \video [filename] to start capture
      - \stopvideo to stop capture
      - Audio capture is a bit ropey
   + General Makefile improvements
   + Support for MinGW cross compilation
   + NetBSD support from optical
   + x86_64 JIT bytecode compiler no longer disabled by default
   + msvc project files updated and moved to win32/msvc
   + Various alignment fixes
   + Solaris (x86 and sparc) support from Vincent S. Cojot
   + Fixed Altivec-based mesh rendering
   + Ditch Mac OS 9 support
   + Added a Makefile option USE_LOCAL_HEADERS which can be disabled to use system
      headers if desired
   + Detection of Altivec on Mac OS X
   + SMP support with sdl_glimp.c on Mac OS X.
   + Add "very high quality" option (patch from Pascal de Bruijn)
   + Support for RIFF files with zero length data chunks (yes they exist, and yes,
      they're legal)
   + Support for ccache. If you want it, add USE_CCACHE=1 to Makefile.local
   + Mac OS X now uses SDL backend, all Objective C removed
   + Partial implementation of FS_Seek for files in pk3s
   + Implementation of r_dlightBacks from Shane Isley
   + OpenAL support, from BlackAura aka Stuart Dalton
   + An abstract codec system, simplifying support for new formats
   + Ignore in_dgamouse setting if dga isn't available
   + Removed hard coded mouse acceleration in *nix input code
   + Basically rewrote the lcc Makefile to be more sane
   + Removed various bits of lcc that weren't built/needed
   + General portability improvements
   + Various variables added that aid packaging, from vapier
   + Centralise architecture defines in q_platform.h
   + Replaced a bunch of inline and __inline with ID_INLINE
   + Replaced a bunch of __i386__ with id386
   + General tidy up of asm preprocessor decisions
   + Removed C_ONLY from the dedicated server build
   + Removed rule to build C++ (for splines) from the Makefile
   + General decrufting
   + Split USE_SDL into USE_SDL_VIDEO and USE_SDL_AUDIO
   + Various assorted bug fixes

2005-10-29 Various contributors
   + nasm syntax asm ported to gas
   + Disabled-by-default MD4 support
   + cons build system removed
   + Better FreeBSD support
   + Makefile generates dependencies
   + Some SDL sound tweaks
   + qvm build tools and qvms are now built with the rest of the binaries
   + q3asm-turbo from Phaethon
   + Moved various displaced c and h files into more appropriate places
   + A shitload (can I say shit?) of bug fixes -- see the svn log for details
e.t.c :)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 26, 2007, 10:13:14 am
I did not notice any of them
so many changes but it feels just like quake3?
Only one I noticed was anisotropic filtering

if you read carefully, they are just some minor bugfixes
(*** noticeable changes ***)


md4 / anisotropy / ogg-vorbis / avi recording

any other to add?


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: w1zrd on November 26, 2007, 11:25:08 am
I did not notice any of them
so many changes but it feels just like quake3?
Only one I noticed was anisotropic filtering

if you read carefully, they are just some minor bugfixes
(*** noticeable changes ***)


md4 / anisotropy / ogg-vorbis / avi recording

any other to add?
well, tbh, I've been living under a rock for the last few months, I didn't even know that we had md4 support in it :)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on November 26, 2007, 11:55:24 am
any other to add?

Native AMD64, BSD, Solaris, Irix, mingw32 ports, a better build system than cons, decent stack protection on non-x86 systems, 5.1 surround sound across all systems, they are also using a few more newer GL extensions apart from anisotropic filtering.

<sarcasm>oh wait you, don't give a shit about any platform but your own...</sarcasm>

well, tbh, I've been living under a rock for the last few months, I didn't even know that we had md4 support in it :)

What good does supporting the format bring when there are no tools to export the format?


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 26, 2007, 01:54:48 pm
png / md4 / anisotropy / ogg / avi record / openal / more platforms

it looks like freetype support is non existent in the makefile


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on November 26, 2007, 02:09:14 pm
it looks like freetype support is non existent in the makefile

File a bug :)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 26, 2007, 02:27:53 pm
it looks like freetype support is non existent in the makefile

File a bug :)

I don't think it will work
It is hard to communicate with obsessive people :D
plus I can add it myself


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: fromhell on November 26, 2007, 05:17:34 pm
Anistropy was in stock q3


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on November 26, 2007, 05:57:09 pm
I don't think it will work
It is hard to communicate with obsessive people :D
plus I can add it myself


chicken.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: gord on November 27, 2007, 08:00:46 am
ioquake3 isn't about creating 'ohh cool' stuff, its really about keeping quake3 working throughout the years so people can base mods on it and making sure quake3/ta works nicely on everyones systems. im quite happy, they took this old codebase and modernised it (unified SDL on all systems, openal, ogg/png, that kind of stuff)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 27, 2007, 09:28:55 am
for me unified SDL is not a modernization
(you depend on SDL project and you are prone to its bugs)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on November 27, 2007, 01:04:47 pm
And if you depend on DirectX you are prone to its bugs.  If you depend on Ati you are prone to their bugs.  If you depend on nvidia you are prone to their bugs.  If you depend on... well you get the point.

If you hate the direction of the ioq3 project so much, pick a host (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_hosting_facilities) and start a fork.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 27, 2007, 02:45:13 pm
I already did however I didn't have enough time to work on it
sourceforge.net/projects/quake3

directx is fine on windows as it has less bugs
and sdl has better support on linux

so if I have a choice you I would choose the best one
why should I use SDL on windows?
 SDL is using directx on windows so you depend on directx anyway XD


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on November 27, 2007, 04:24:59 pm
I already did however I didn't have enough time to work on it
sourceforge.net/projects/quake3

bummer

Quote
why should I use SDL on windows?

SDL on windows gives you better GL support, IIRC Microsoft's supported OpenGL version is broke/stuck at 1.1 plus SDL is software libre so you can fix the bugs or compile a version that uses libaa and allow Windows users to play ttyq3a.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on November 27, 2007, 04:36:21 pm
iottyq3a >_>
if they fix the input thing I can live with SDL happily


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Dave on December 28, 2007, 10:03:21 am
I'll tell you what it didn't accomplish.  The removal of the strafe jump exploit.

Sad really.  It takes the fun out of most CTF maps because it becomes the "can cheats" vs the "cannot cheats".  While I have figured out the strafe jump (though not as well as some), I choose not to use it because it's cheap and lacks character to use it against those who cannot. 

I scanned the source and found what looks to be an attempt to fix the bug, but it obviously doesn't work.  The source is a bit undocumented and I didn't exactly try to understand exactly what it was doing or I would have looked into fixing it.

I got Call of Duty 4 for Christmas, maybe after I'm tired of it I will again look at it.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Crash!!! on December 28, 2007, 11:32:13 am
Using SDL still doesn't get you away from Direct X on Windows. SDL on windows actually wraps AROUND direct X. So not only are you susceptible to SDL bugs,you are also to Direct X and what ever your video card driver's bugs are. Very bad implementation on Windows. Also strafe will always be a part of the engine. If they took it out their would be an outcry from clan members and advanced players. Im guessing about half of the OA players would leave and that half are the few that actually host servers on OA


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Dave on December 28, 2007, 11:54:20 am
Also strafe will always be a part of the engine. If they took it out their would be an outcry from clan members and advanced players. Im guessing about half of the OA players would leave and that half are the few that actually host servers on OA

Thats amusing as it seems many players leave due to cheating as stay because they can win by cheating.  I know I don't play CTF competitively as much as I used to because of it.  Most of the time when I play CTF now is just to rail the cheaters as they strafe jump across the map.  ;)

While I don't hold any real animosity toward them, I do enjoy harassing them with the rail and verbally.  :) 


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: w1zrd on December 28, 2007, 01:07:08 pm
Go play Western Quake, there you have no strafe jumping, or learn how to move, your choice.
Maybe locking 'always run' to off would be an equally good solution then?
I don't believe however that calling people cheaters because they can do what you can't isn't very relevant to changing the source code in your favor.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Dave on December 28, 2007, 02:09:11 pm
I don't believe however that calling people cheaters because they can do what you can't isn't very relevant to changing the source code in your favor.
With all due respect, this has to be the most illogical asinine statement I've read on this board thus far.  Being able to strafe jump is about practicing the art of exploiting it.  Not a hard feat to accomplish with time and diligence.  (as you have obviously already put forth) It is not changing the source code in my favor, it is eliminating an unintended exploit.  There is a big difference.  Of course as someone that has something to gain by expoiting it, you're going to point the finger at me.  Of course as someone to doesn't expoit the game engine, I cannot be proclaimed a cheater...  Cheater ;)   :P



Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: w1zrd on December 28, 2007, 02:32:15 pm
There are players who spend whole days playing games in order to get better, i.e practicing because A) they want to and B) they have the time. So for me it would seem natural that someone who dedicates that much time for something would deserve to 'be better', in strafejumping, aiming or whatnot.
Would it be more fair to allow a really slow pace for all players and even out the gameplay? Yes...because practice wouldn't matter.
Would it be Quake? No..


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Dave on December 28, 2007, 02:42:00 pm
I'm not going to argue the point with you as you've already made up your mind.  I will precent my though.  My thought is strafe jumping is an exploit plan and simple. 

Exploit:
  • To take advantage of somebody: to take selfish or unfair advantage of a person or situation, usually for personal gain

Therefore would it be Quake without it?  You damn skippy it would be Quake, as the strafe jumping exploit was not intended to be in Quake in the first place.

Let me ask you this.  Do you feel better when you score in CTF after you strafe jumped to and from against players that cannot?   In that case, Barry Bonds should be in the HoF right?  ;)


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: w1zrd on December 28, 2007, 03:44:42 pm
Nah, no need to argue, always two sides to a coin.
It is true that the bug was not intended to be there, but it was, and it got released after all so for many years players have learned how to play with it. What I am saying is; if you change it there is a big chance that experienced players will turn their back on it.
I couldn't tell you how I would feel after scoring in CTF, I don't play it.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: fromhell on December 28, 2007, 10:27:49 pm
Skiing in Starsiege Tribes. That's such an exploit it became a lifestyle for the game. In Quake-engine land there is strafe-jumping (this is really really evident in Hexen II at most) Live with it.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: dmn_clown on December 29, 2007, 08:41:21 am
So for me it would seem natural that someone who dedicates that much time for something would deserve to 'be better', in strafejumping, aiming or whatnot.

There is a difference between someone learning how to accelerate a jump and people setting their max fps at 333 to avoid having to learn anything.

Quote
Would it be more fair to allow a really slow pace for all players and even out the gameplay? Yes...because practice wouldn't matter.
Would it be Quake? No..

But you've already said that the game isn't quake because of the huge bouncing knockers, bloom lighting, and soft particles coming out sarge's armpits.  :D


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Johnny on December 29, 2007, 10:30:51 am
Therefore would it be Quake without it?  You damn skippy it would be Quake, as the strafe jumping exploit was not intended to be in Quake in the first place.

Let me ask you this.  Do you feel better when you score in CTF after you strafe jumped to and from against players that cannot?   In that case, Barry Bonds should be in the HoF right?  ;)

Good god Noobzilla, you do realize that the strafe jumping "bug", as well as double jumping was left in intentionally right?  The famous Q2dm1 "The Edge" was constructed by id and had numerous areas that could only be reached by strafejumping and double jumping. 

Learn to moooove.  Or get fragged waddling around like a duck with concrete boots on.


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Crash!!! on December 29, 2007, 12:27:23 pm
That is precisely at what I'm getting at. They left this bug in because people learned to live with it and embrace and second of all like I said if they did take this bug out it wouldn't be a quake based game. It would be horrible so many people would leave OA and I just started wanting to contribute some stuff to it (cough) music (cough) sounds (cough) I'll provide sources. but if you took all this bug away I and many more would turn our backs on away


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: Dave on December 31, 2007, 06:56:50 pm
I guess we just disagree.  I find it extremely stupid to hear "<player> has your flag." and not have chance in hell of stopping them because before I can get out the door they've already traversed the entire distance between the two sides.

...kind of takes the fun out of it. 

I think it's stupid and takes the fun and competitive nature from CTF, but I guess if you can't cheat why play is the way of the Open Arena player of today.

Maybe it's just I that will move on.  (btw noob, chances are I've been playing longer than you and at absolute best you've only played as long as I  ;) )


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: iLeft.bye on January 01, 2008, 03:23:11 am
bah you need to remove rocket jump and stuff ... boring :(


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: fromhell on January 01, 2008, 08:47:15 am
Well, there's BZflag available to play if you absolutely despise "physics luck"


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: RAZ3R on April 09, 2008, 03:54:52 pm
I'm sorry, I feel I have to correct somethign in this thread.

STRAFE JUMPING IN NOT AN ACCIDENTAL BUG!

There we go. It was a bug in quake1 and 2 that id didn't know about upon release, though by quake3's release id software were fully aware of strafe jumping and it has been intentionaly left in, as it has also been in quake4, so really it's no longer even a bug but a feature.

edit: oops, other people have already mentioned this =).


Title: Re: What did ioquake3 project accomplish?
Post by: pikaunforgiven on April 09, 2008, 06:39:02 pm
i agree, and its also in unreal tournament, wolfenstein enemy territory, half-life, call of duty, battlefield 2, and many other games that arent even based on the q3 engine. heck, ive even heard that halo has it to an extent (i dont play halo so i dont know this for a fact).

strafe jumping is in the game because it adds another element of skill required to play competitively. the way i see it, you either learn it or you die, just like any other game. in fact the defrag mod relies on strafe jumping/rocket jumping/plasma climbing for its very existance.

oh and btw, you dont need to have 333fps to strafe jump easily and effectively, 125, 76 and 43 work just as well. all that matters is that the quake 3 engine gives you a steady framerate at the cap you choose and the cap you choose is favorable for the greatest jumping distance. see this url for details if you wanna get technical about it: http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake3/FAQFPSJumps.html