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OpenArena => Multiplayer => Topic started by: aantipop on June 12, 2008, 01:12:29 AM



Title: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 12, 2008, 01:12:29 AM
the last few days i noticed that the openarena servers are not very crowded anymore. i have a 0.7.1 installed and 0.7.7 but i cant find a good ctf server any longer. people are split in 3 versions which are all not compatible. i guess some long-time openarena players already left because of that situation. i miss the 0.7.1 days with a lot of regular, strong players around the servers..


so what can be done to unify the OA community again ?


-  server admins need to get informed about the situation and the update to 0.7.7
-  force protocol 69 on the master-server OR go back to 68 and have a "outtdated version" message,not the invalid folder one
-  most important: provide a binary with the holy "old" input system for 0.7.7 (which can already be found at http://rainbow.furver.se/ (http://rainbow.furver.se/))





Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 12, 2008, 08:53:34 AM
*sigh*
Ive been telling you all the same thing over and over again...!
If you want to get into a good CTF server, go to Nemesis server though its running 0.7.1 and I dont know if thats ok for you.


-Server admins (most of them I would say 98%) know about the new release, and I personally had asked about changing to 0.7.7 in each server and most of them dont want to, 'cause IE: "when I tried 0.7.7 the server crashed over and over", "the mouse in 0.7.7 is weird", "the players of this server prefer 0.7.1"...

-Heh... You know we must keep dreaming... dont think that will happen :(

-The last time I tried to put a link and specify something about the Mighty RN my post was deleted :( my only intention was that, to let know everyone the awesome work they are doing to avoid losing more ppl, to give a hand with some troubles ppl post here and sometimes the replies are just OFF-TOPIC.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 12, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
aantipop.

0.7.1 is now a thing of the past for a developer.

It is still an end product and should be treated as such. By suggesting we must do something, such as upgrade, whatever, IMO only means that you couldnt care less about what you currently have.  The roadmap should be exactly that. You move along and who knows where it leads to. But you do not turn back and destroy what you leave behind.

Remember, many people might be  completely unaware of all the politics and what not, why should we go a unsettle people because we feel it's for the best, I am certainly not in any position to do that, and neither is anyone here. We may not share the same opinions, but that is not a bad thing.

If 071 isnt good enough enough for you then you have the choice to go where you want. You know, I can still go back and play the first server that all the noobs used to go on. It's so funny because the machine must be a piece of shit, but you can stumble accross people who are just the same as you, people who were just the same as you at the time :) Funny thing is, that server has never changed, not a single bit for god knows how many years.  It's a part of history now. Who knows, by being lazy I may be a visitors attraction in the future, the server maybe antique. When the time comes where you can launch the game, look at the server list and recognise the identities of servers, that is what makes a community.  The dev team can say all they want, but wether they like it or not, I will always be that stubborn cow. I also hope they will look back and laugh, cos sure fuck I will - I am not doing any harm nor  am I here on a mission and take things that seriouslly, I'm one of the lucky ones. Even my friends have fled to 0.7.7.. they can still come back and visit and get the same ass kicking as before, assuming I'm not already evicted.  :) 


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Mr. Oho on June 12, 2008, 05:13:27 PM
the last few days i noticed that the openarena servers are not very crowded anymore. i have a 0.7.1 installed and 0.7.7 but i cant find a good ctf server any longer. people are split in 3 versions which are all not compatible. i guess some long-time openarena players already left because of that situation. i miss the 0.7.1 days with a lot of regular, strong players around the servers..

Yeah i totaly agree... Splitting of playerbase is possibly the worst thing that can happen to OA :/ The main (only?) problem of  0.7.7 seems to be the input stuff but i guess the dev team is allready investigating/wighting options on that. Cant say im realy affected by it but possibly just because Quake3 isnt my "Homegame" and controls feel weird anyways :P.

From the serverside i didnt have any problem at all. Ok 0.7.6 had that weird sticking together thing but going back to the old engine took about 2 minutes... big deal. So admins if your on linux and are having problems you might want to check your config ;)

But heres 2 suggestions (SUGGESTIONS - i realy hate it when people treat producers of free stuff as their own fulltime dev team...):

- Change pk3 naming. Add an incementing number or US-style date to the names so files wont have to be overwritten. This way people could maybe even just download update pk3s from servers and pure decides what pk3s get referenced.

- Do not use latest builds of IOQuake3. Use a stable and proven version for releases but supply newer build for those who feel adventurous. This way engines can get some testing before everyone gets to use it.
 


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 13, 2008, 04:08:14 AM
Yeah, that is a great suggestion. Wouldn't that enable players to use a common tool that can switch versions to whatever you want, if one was ever to be developed?

If OA continues to develop for a long time then maybe one day I will replace my 5 year old piece of crap and check out all the new stuff. I did it to use defrag on Q3 but 1.32 is so crap, I play on 1.16 from 2000.

It's clear that the developers here are now openly critical of their own product, which I find odd. Yes I know about crappy bits but they dont affect me at all. What about gamehosters and people running an OA version as a project? I know a few players who know the game hosters pretty well and they seem to be influential and be able to attract more players. I don't care about game hosting but wouldn't say no if there were enough people to have a game of TDM. But many people dont even bother going to any forum, never mind the OA forum. This is only a small part of OA, many people who have downloaded OA could be from just word of mouth. I just thought this forum was mainly for development anyway, so I took a look at the release notes and seen the wiki page was still listed and still contains the links for 0.7.0.

I laughed when I seen a post of someone posting an announcement that there were actually 10 REAL people on one server :) I see that RN have made a sacrifice to go and help assist with the support for 0.7.7, even though they are unhappy with some future changes. I think that counts for alot, so I would like to see an end of all this 'lazy admin' crap and laughing at people using 0.7.0. I know individuals are entitled to have opinion but does sago share the same opinion? As previously noted, he contributed largely to 0.7.7. Will 0.7.7 be laughed at when the next release comes out? Can't there be a clear distinction that a message is from a user with a name like oa-admin or devteam. I don't even know who the development team are, I know of sago and jackoverfull but it's not very clear. fromhell doesnt even accept pm's. Isn't that anti-development? People who write you bug messages and maybe info of potential cheats or even offer to help.. these messages are only rejected once sent. The may not be appropriate for posting public.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 13, 2008, 04:27:36 AM
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Image:SimpleCover.png

hahaha.. that should be under the heading 'humour' :) The one we want to forget.

This should be on the main OA front page I think : (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Changes

I looked for others but just ended up at loads of technical crap. However, I did notice this :) http://irc.wikia.com/ oa - isnt there, i can do this. I offer you my time to contribute and I can do this. I will give people great advice :D


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 13, 2008, 06:20:06 AM
I agree with really fucking the old protocols.
Just letting everyone play old versions is unacceptable and backwards to the development of the project.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 13, 2008, 09:42:59 AM
the normal evolution would be that the people upgrade because the newer version is better, though


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 13, 2008, 10:26:36 AM
the normal evolution would be that the people upgrade because the newer version is better, though

But ITS NOT!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 13, 2008, 11:23:17 AM
the normal evolution would be that the people upgrade because the newer version is better, though

But ITS NOT!

It is better.. but not much better if you do the same game types etc.
What we need to do is force all players to update.
FFS, remove the old protocol! Or make all server names etc "UPGRADE TO 0.77"
This is a (probably) simple fix, why are we not doing this?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 13, 2008, 12:50:48 PM
maybe because it would not be correct in a political way ? or against players freedom  ?!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: rashdawg on June 13, 2008, 05:11:41 PM
Ok I am not really for or against 0.7.7.  I am just shocked in the way people are acting as if the players do not matter.  I mean really isnt the point of a game to have players to play it.  I dont think it matters if players are playing the old version.  The way the players of 0.7.1 are being treated may just make them leave OA altogether.  There is so much hostility.  Why cant we get those 0.7.1 players to give feedback what they want in 0.8.0.  I am just saying to think about the players and not be so selfishly bullish that 0.7.7 is so much better than 0.7.1.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on June 14, 2008, 12:21:50 AM

FFS, remove the old protocol! Or make all server names etc "UPGRADE TO 0.77"
This is a (probably) simple fix, why are we not doing this?

I agree, it might be a good idea to make things clearer for the not so wise players to understand whats going on.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 14, 2008, 05:31:16 AM
edit


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 15, 2008, 07:51:54 AM
Ok I am not really for or against 0.7.7.  I am just shocked in the way people are acting as if the players do not matter.  I mean really isnt the point of a game to have players to play it.  I dont think it matters if players are playing the old version.  The way the players of 0.7.1 are being treated may just make them leave OA altogether.  There is so much hostility.  Why cant we get those 0.7.1 players to give feedback what they want in 0.8.0.  I am just saying to think about the players and not be so selfishly bullish that 0.7.7 is so much better than 0.7.1.

The 0.7.1 players aren't upgrading because they do NOT know about 0.7.7 at all!
The 0.7.1 players haven't played 0.7.7/6 and they haven't said they haven't liked it. This is because there is no community-development communication at all.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: GrosBedo on June 15, 2008, 09:54:45 AM
The 0.7.1 players aren't upgrading because they do NOT know about 0.7.7 at all!
The 0.7.1 players haven't played 0.7.7/6 and they haven't said they haven't liked it. This is because there is no community-development communication at all.

Why people just can't understand they don't know what others can think ? Listen to what is being said. There are many people knowing the new version is out, but prefer to play the old one. Some others like me keep and play both. There is a reason why we are in this situation, it never happened in the past, and the community wasn't smaller. We should try to understand and correct the cause instead of whining after the effect.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 15, 2008, 11:12:23 AM
Ok I am not really for or against 0.7.7.  I am just shocked in the way people are acting as if the players do not matter.  I mean really isnt the point of a game to have players to play it.  I dont think it matters if players are playing the old version.  The way the players of 0.7.1 are being treated may just make them leave OA altogether.  There is so much hostility.  Why cant we get those 0.7.1 players to give feedback what they want in 0.8.0.  I am just saying to think about the players and not be so selfishly bullish that 0.7.7 is so much better than 0.7.1.

The 0.7.1 players aren't upgrading because they do NOT know about 0.7.7 at all!
The 0.7.1 players haven't played 0.7.7/6 and they haven't said they haven't liked it. This is because there is no community-development communication at all.

Its really a shame from you to say that...! If ppl say they dont like 0.7.7/6 its because they've already tried it and played it and so on...
You are saying ppl dont like/play 0.7.6/7 even without played it and its only 'cause of what they heard..!

Thats stupid. How can you say that!? Jeez!!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fromhell on June 15, 2008, 11:13:59 AM
unaware != doesn't like

0.7.0 had a digg article. 0.7.6 didn't.

0.8.0 will get a digg article.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 15, 2008, 11:57:39 AM
Sure, you two/three may not like 0.7.7 (even though there is no fucking reason not to!), but this doesn't mean that EVERY 0.7.1/0 player has this same view.
You people are an active part of the community, so you know about the new releases etc. from the main page and forums.
Other people only play the game, and don't visit the website etc, so how else would they know about the new release?

It's highly realistic that people just don't know about the game. Also, can you REALLY see a typical Quake player being pissed off and reverting to an old version over new features after waiting for the download and install? I cannot.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Mr. Oho on June 15, 2008, 07:25:57 PM
FFS, remove the old protocol! Or make all server names etc "UPGRADE TO 0.77"
This is a (probably) simple fix, why are we not doing this?

As much as i like simple wouldnt it be a better idea to integrate some kind of update ticker into future releases? No, it wont work now but i think it would provide a nicer way of telling people about updates.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: pulchr on June 16, 2008, 12:15:47 AM
Also, can you REALLY see a typical Quake player being pissed off and reverting to an old version over new features after waiting for the download and install? I cannot.

Yes, this is HIGHLY REALISTIC as the game does not FEEL like it used to. the movement has CHANGED from what quake 3 has always felt like. this does not apply to all players as the input seem to vary for all players. however, it occurs to MANY players. have you not seen threads and answers from players criticizing the new SDL input?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kit89 on June 16, 2008, 03:53:48 AM
As far as I'm concerned 0.7.0 was an official release, with 0.7.1(stable) fixing bugs that were not known at development.

As for 0.7.6 & 0.7.7(beta), they are test beds, In what you could say the bleeding edge of this game & with that comes problems.

Instead of trying to force players to play 0.7.7 over 0.7.1, ask them to send bug reports in. The developers can't fix problems it's unaware of & the last time I checked most of the developers for OA are running Linux/Mac, while the main user base is Windows & it's the Windows version that is having problems.

So come on Players of OpenArena, send in your Bug Reports!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 16, 2008, 04:42:37 AM
oK lets get back to the insanity.

FAO kick/aantipoop @ similar minded ppl : Your issue is over a lack of servers / players on 0.7.7. You don't really care about OA nor do you care about anything other than yourselves.  I use Windows XP and there is noone forcing me or suggesting to these ridiculous bull dozer solutions to upgrade to vista so that things can be the way you want it. Can you imagine if the developer of this forum software were to come here and give us all this crap that the forum has been updated and much better SO UPDATE NOW ITS EVOLUTION. We would tell them to fuck off and quite rightly so. We have our own free will to do what we choose and it is one thing you should never abuse or take for granted.

There are not many people who can give genuine opinions any kind of assesment of the two version unless they play unmodded base versions of OA. fromhell is no doubt one of them, I know Joki does and a few others who use the RN tourney server.

As far as I know the only thing different is the input in 0.7.7. Most other things are non applicable, I've been using the same delag functions that exist in 0.7.7 since day one using 0.7.1. In that respect there is no argument that many peoples comments are just a load of crap. However, on the other hand delag options are now available in the base game so people now have the oppertunity to play against opponents and with a much higher margin of ping. Actually, I think the same delag already might be on 0.7.1 because it is quake 2.01 netcode, but most importantly it's documented and enabled by default. Some people may not like it. Your movement will feel quite different.

The people who do not like the feel of 0.7.7 could just well be referring to the effects of the netcode and not the input code changes.  In which case the people who criticise 0.7.7 will not like my server on 0.71 either. It suits me perfectly :)

pulchr - do you have a server? If not then you will need to find out what it is you don't like.  I can possibly arrange a server where you click the middle mouse button and it will give you a range of settings and you just use scroll to select each mode - for it to work properly, you will need to set rate  10000,  cl_maxpackets 30, snaps 40. Some of the modes will force some minimum values, so you might have 125 maxpackets rather than 30 you have in your config.  Chances are it's config change and you can still play with the movement you want. However, you will need to find the servers which has a config more to your liking.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 16, 2008, 05:34:03 AM
ok I'm looking for 0.7.7 and cant find it. Please tell me the answer does not start with  0.7.6  :(

I don't get it. That's the messed up one. That thing should be gone altogether, since it's the only version that is compatible with 0.7.1, with server help, and also compatible with 0.7.7 after an upgrade. wtf?

And while I like the idea of packaged updates as MrOoops suggested, instead of releasing a fix, why not put this as a download instead, just like was done with 0.7.6. Who cares if the evolution people have to download it again, they are only going to stab it in the back a few weeks later because its their own fault they didnt look where they were jumping


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 16, 2008, 06:37:10 AM
FAO kick/aantipoop @ similar minded ppl : Your issue is over a lack of servers / players on 0.7.7. You don't really care about OA nor do you care about anything other than yourselves.

Excuse me while I finish eating the epic lolz you just served me.


Hmm, tasty.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 16, 2008, 06:52:24 AM
always helps chew your food before wolfing it down :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Gerbil on June 16, 2008, 07:43:54 AM
unaware != doesn't like

0.7.0 had a digg article. 0.7.6 didn't.

0.8.0 will get a digg article.
i eagerly await 0.8.0


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: pulchr on June 16, 2008, 11:09:46 AM
pulchr - do you have a server? If not then you will need to find out what it is you don't like.  I can possibly arrange a server where you click the middle mouse button and it will give you a range of settings and you just use scroll to select each mode - for it to work properly, you will need to set rate  10000,  cl_maxpackets 30, snaps 40. Some of the modes will force some minimum values, so you might have 125 maxpackets rather than 30 you have in your config.  Chances are it's config change and you can still play with the movement you want. However, you will need to find the servers which has a config more to your liking.

i can setup a server on my linux box here right next to me (though i play in win xp). but i doubt that will help as the problems with my mouse occurs both during online and offline play. movement as such (jumping, strafing, walking) is not a problem - just how the game interprets the mouse movements on my mouse pad.

and really i can't say the input is wrong in any way - it's just that from 0.7.6 it differs from how quake 3 has felt for the last decade or so :P


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fromhell on June 16, 2008, 11:26:30 AM
considering that we're not at the 1.0.0 mark yet there is bound to be a lot of roller coasters on the way there

live with it, it's development.

oh fyi my main computer 'died' so atm i can only work on missionpack menus. i've started work on the controls menu which is my most feared menu of all.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 16, 2008, 02:16:01 PM
oh fyi my main computer 'died'
doh


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Gerbil on June 16, 2008, 09:57:44 PM
Ok I am not really for or against 0.7.7.  I am just shocked in the way people are acting as if the players do not matter.  I mean really isnt the point of a game to have players to play it.  I dont think it matters if players are playing the old version.  The way the players of 0.7.1 are being treated may just make them leave OA altogether.  There is so much hostility.  Why cant we get those 0.7.1 players to give feedback what they want in 0.8.0.  I am just saying to think about the players and not be so selfishly bullish that 0.7.7 is so much better than 0.7.1.
The 0.7.1 players aren't upgrading because they do NOT know about 0.7.7 at all!
The 0.7.1 players haven't played 0.7.7/6 and they haven't said they haven't liked it. This is because there is no community-development communication at all.
Rashdawg is a wise man. You cannot force people into playing a version that they do not like, they will likely leave alltogether. I have played both versions. 077 has many features that 071 didn't. 077 had more models, maps, and gamemodes. Unfortunately the gameplay changed because the way the sensitivity works changed so drastically, and at the end of the day, thats what counts the most. I think that there will always be a divide between 071 and 077, so lets hope that 080 can unite both sides.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: cosmo on June 17, 2008, 03:19:54 AM
As for players not accepting the changes in newer versions and servers stay with outdated material they harm the whole development progress of the game. Fewer if at all (and always the same) bugreports are bad.
It disencourages to spend a lot of freetime into this project if the 'community' refuses to use it.

It hurts whenever somebody advertises 0.71


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 17, 2008, 05:04:36 AM
create a bugtracker ? its more effective than the boards i guess..and encourage users to file bugreports on the frontpage


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 17, 2008, 06:15:06 AM
It hurts whenever somebody advertises 0.71

Are you one of the players or hang out on irc that tested 0.7.6 ? If so, then accept some responsibility as we all don't zip up at the back.  These people let us down badly. It hurts to see so the forum flooded with people who can't even play the game, which also irritated more members. If not, then maybe you could support or suggest the postive development of 0.7.7.

When I had the oppertunity to install 0.7.6,  it was too late. I don't know why it's such a concern, the 0.7.1 players are probably more likely people who don't know about the upgrade. They will probably upgrade, it's the same bloody game. Would you think it would be better if the 0.7.1 players went to Q3? What about the people who have no time or play much and have a server parked there. People will communicate.

I have tried 0.7.7 and I have nothing negative to say about it. I feel quite comfortable about it as I don't see 20 new messages with a similar title like "please help with my mega problems". And the support of 0.7.1 is nothing compared to the exposure of 0.7.7.

Oh, and good idea aantipop, I'm very pleased to see you have have recovered from that awful panic attact and now posting more sensible stuff :)



Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kit89 on June 17, 2008, 08:13:54 AM
Quote
Are you one of the players or hang out on irc that tested 0.7.6 ?

0.7.6 had little or no QA(Quality Assurance). Multiple changes happened to the source code of the ioquake3 & a lot new visual assets, in a very short period of time. The mistakes & problems that arisen with 0.7.6 including the lack of QA where resolved in 0.7.7.

Quote
These people let us down badly.

Those "people" develop Open Arena in their spare time, the only one that let you down is yourself, for not supporting the game you play!

Quote
It hurts to see so the forum flooded with people who can't even play the game, which also irritated more members.

It hurts to see the forum full of users that are unappreciative of the hard work & effort that the developers put in to making this game.

Quote
I have tried 0.7.7 and I have nothing negative to say about it. I feel quite comfortable about it as I don't see 20 new messages with a similar title like "please help with my mega problems". And the support of 0.7.1 is nothing compared to the exposure of 0.7.7.

Glad you like it, so could you change your signature from recommending users use 0.7.1 to 0.7.7?

Quote
create a bugtracker ? its more effective than the boards i guess..and encourage users to file bugreports on the frontpage

A proper Bug Tracker would be good. But for the moment if you wish to report a bug, post it in the Technical Snafus section. :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 17, 2008, 09:47:20 AM
OK, I guess this topic is going out of controll.

Lets be clear.

* Why is more fun to play 0.7.1 instead 0.7.7 and why are we "whining" so much?

    'Cause you CANT controll ur mouse, when u try to turn right or left, JEEZZ!!! you got a 360º spin...
    Is it going to be the same for 0.8.8?
    Ok, sure, u can put ur lil' console down and write the cmd, but, what about the ppl who doesnt know how to do that?
    Those players who are not as involved in the game as the ppl who post here and read this forums?
    Is there any "readme" file with some useful cmd's added with the releases ( something I suggested long long time ago) ??
    Why dont we put in that readme file some tips about, "colored names", "wtf is the Handicap", "How to bring down the console"...??     
    Come on, even "tetris" has a readme file telling you how to play it...!!!

Im really really worried 'cause maybe you think this has no sense, maybe its toooooooo obvious, but it does have sense and is not that obvious for some ppl, as a game developer you should take all the chances to make ppl to understand how to play your game and so they will like it...

If you have lots of "whinings" about anything related to the game, its cause there is a problem INDEED, and should be discussed, and when I say discussed I mean, TO LISTEN and to response in a POLITE way to the ppl posts.

I hope to get my questions answered...
Thanks to all for your time.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fromhell on June 17, 2008, 10:05:38 AM
In Linux this problem doesn't exist (and never has) since we don't have directinput there anyway


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 17, 2008, 10:09:42 AM
Thx for answering, but, Is it possible to do something for the Windows players? right? :)
I am sure this will help you a lot, and ppl will understand lots of things too.

yep?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 17, 2008, 10:14:13 AM
In Linux this problem doesn't exist (and never has) since we don't have directinput there anyway

this is 100% bullshit, i have problems with the sdl input on linux, mouse gets unresponsive (x hair lagging far behind movements, after some fast movements) started with versions based on ioquake3 >1.33


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fromhell on June 17, 2008, 10:26:37 AM
Did you know ioquake3 has a forum (http://ioquake.org/forums)?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 17, 2008, 10:44:49 AM
yes, and now you know that there are input problems on linux when i try to play your game


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Mr. Oho on June 17, 2008, 10:45:43 AM
OK, I guess this topic is going out of controll.

Was to be exspected wasnt it? :P But realy im happily suprised how much of the posted oil didnt do anything to the fire if you know what i mean ;)

'Cause you CANT controll ur mouse, when u try to turn right or left, JEEZZ!!! you got a 360º spin...

Well i think unable to control is a bit of an exaggeration (unless im just on an extremly lucky configuration to not notice much). No im not saying there is no change just that i (being the no skills player that i am :P) dont realy notice. Yes im on windows atm ;)

Is there any "readme" file with some useful cmd's added with the releases ( something I suggested long long time ago) ??
Why dont we put in that readme file some tips about, "colored names", "wtf is the Handicap", "How to bring down the console"...??     
Come on, even "tetris" has a readme file telling you how to play it...!!!

I cant speak for the OA team but i wouldnt object to you doing one ;) Sorry its a bit flamy but i couldnt resist. Anyways in end someone has to write it and the problem is most people dont have much motivation to write pages of boring text they have no use for ;/

If you have lots of "whinings" about anything related to the game, its cause there is a problem INDEED, and should be discussed, and when I say discussed I mean, TO LISTEN and to response in a POLITE way to the ppl posts.

Trying to be an innocent bystander id be tempted to say everyone suffers from a bit of dont-wanna-listen/unpoliteness sometimes ;)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 17, 2008, 02:30:19 PM
Mr. Oho..! :)
Well, I will gladly accept the job.. I will try to make a very nice -readme file- about some basic stuff.
I hope my work to be taked seriously though.

And this question goes to the Boss.. fromhell, If I spend some of my free time creating this readme file, will u put it INTO the new release? as an additional file?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: pulchr on June 17, 2008, 04:25:03 PM
a readme or game guide could also be added to the openarena wiki for people to read.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 17, 2008, 04:57:14 PM
I will make the make the bug report machine


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 18, 2008, 12:19:33 AM
Why not make a guide/readme on the wiki, then we could link to it in the game folder.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 18, 2008, 03:00:37 AM
yay lets get constructive


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on June 18, 2008, 04:53:29 AM

The 0.7.1 players aren't upgrading because they do NOT know about 0.7.7 at all!
The 0.7.1 players haven't played 0.7.7/6 and they haven't said they haven't liked it. This is because there is no community-development communication at all.


I would think that even the most average of people who get a game on there computers would assume that the game they are playing will be updated. Especially if the game they have isn't even a version 1.0
I would also assume that they would have the internet and could easily do a google search for something as simple as the name open arena and find some hits indicating there are free patches available.

What kind of community besides this website and a google search could you possibly be wanting here?


As much as i like simple wouldnt it be a better idea to integrate some kind of update ticker into future releases? No, it wont work now but i think it would provide a nicer way of telling people about updates.


Excellent idea. I don't think it would take much to make something like that.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on June 18, 2008, 05:02:33 AM

oh fyi my main computer 'died' so atm i can only work on missionpack menus. i've started work on the controls menu which is my most feared menu of all.


Good Luck! I can imagine how difficult something like that would be to program.


Well, I will gladly accept the job.. I will try to make a very nice -readme file- about some basic stuff.
I hope my work to be taked seriously though.


Hey I'll read it. :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on June 18, 2008, 05:10:10 AM
-


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kick52 on June 18, 2008, 06:17:24 AM
Not everyone will think about updates when the rest of the servers are working fine and on 0.7.1, that's why we need some kind of update notice.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: pulchr on June 18, 2008, 07:50:30 AM
yeh, as long as it is optional and not a forced update, i'm all for it.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: HITMAN on June 18, 2008, 02:53:16 PM
Here's my two cents..

I generally play the ver 0.7.1 for two main reasons:
  1. The infamous mouse over-sensitivity of ver. 0.7.7
  2. Most good players play on this verision

I do understand that these developers are putting their time into making the OA experience special. Also, adversting the new version is feasible for the development of the game. These things are necessary but when we have many committed players not satisfied with the changes, they will keep what is working and promote the working copy to others until the main kinks in the new version are addressed.

This is exactly what Microsoft is going through. Everyone that knows about computers recommends Windows XP over Windows Vista. Microsoft is trying to force Vista down people throats and all it is doing is making people buy MACs machines. Just look at Microsoft's and Apple stock. Vast difference!

So here is a resolution: At least make 0.7.1 and 0.7.7 available until Windows Vista (aka OA 0.7.7) gets the main issue addressed. This way everyone will stop bitch'n about how the new version sucks. No one wants to work or play under duress. fromhell, You can recommend to new players to install the version while we can recommend, in the forums, to use 0.7.1. People are more apt to go with is recommended by the site admin. I dunno if anyone is working on fixing this issue with the mouse sensitivity; but i dont think its going away anytime soon. We love the game so much that we are willing to stick around until that problem is solved.

We need each other on this to make this game work. Feelings may and will get hurt but lets be mature about this and come to a reasonable agreement.

- the HIT


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: aantipop on June 19, 2008, 03:58:50 AM
Here's my two cents..
Windows Vista (aka OA 0.7.7)

lol

so lets see 0.7.7 as a devel version and wait for 0.8 ?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Mr. Oho on June 19, 2008, 04:40:19 AM
Windows Vista (aka OA 0.7.7)

Haha this comparsion is so wrong xD Still you have a point.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 19, 2008, 05:36:25 PM
oh I havent visited this one for a while now :D It's better than coronation street \:D/ hehe.. how did we get to Vista?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: HITMAN on June 20, 2008, 06:20:05 AM
how did we get to Vista?

check my last post..only 4 previous messages ago :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 21, 2008, 11:22:17 AM
I'm quite sure that fromhell can find it in their heart to create a little forum area for the minority of 71 players or people working on stuff then the anti-social or the unwashed people can still have some kind of oppertunity to post without fear. They can keep away from the hard working upper class part of the OA society and I'm sure the knowledgable people from 0.7.7 will also agree. There would be no confusion and no need for all the silly comments and sarcasm which don't really do a community any good. Argue all you want, but if you have an opinion, and you expect someone else to read and respect that opinion, then you must also accept that there maybe others who do not share the same opinion


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 21, 2008, 11:45:23 AM
I've just realised :/ that will be a bad idea. It would give others oppertunity to bash people who post in wrong forums and I   post stuff in all the forums. People would miss all my important posts. :(


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 24, 2008, 09:51:29 PM
Can we  make this a sticky?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: << ME >> on June 25, 2008, 09:11:02 AM
Mr. Oho..! :)
Well, I will gladly accept the job.. I will try to make a very nice -readme file- about some basic stuff.
I hope my work to be taked seriously though.

And this question goes to the Boss.. fromhell, If I spend some of my free time creating this readme file, will u put it INTO the new release? as an additional file?

Well, since I didnt get an answer I guess Im talking to a wall or its not really important.... so.. I will sit and wait for 0.8.0, I hope "the wall" and the other developers to make a good job for 0.8.0


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: cosmo on June 25, 2008, 11:39:30 AM
I have a question for you:

What do you expect for 0.8? It won't change the 0.7.7 input much.
I had this 'spinning' input problem with Q3A in 2001 under M$ Windows. It occurend sometimes and annoyed me but I lived with it. I guess it's a strange combination of mouse / operating system / driver.

So the problem cannot be reproduced and there of not be fixed. Seems you and the everybody who encounters is able to 'repair' this and offer OA a patch.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 25, 2008, 09:43:18 PM
why release it then


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on June 25, 2008, 09:44:37 PM
RN is down. I am sad. I have no support :(


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: lightrush on July 02, 2008, 07:53:40 PM
Ubuntu 32bit here - sensitivity is different but not defective. All I had to do is readjust it and a few kills with the new speed setting.
Moreover - 0.7.7 has Hitscan Unlag which is ... one of the most important features for an FPS game?? Gosh now Railgun actually shoots where u point it!


AIRLOGIC is now updated to 0.7.7 and it will be kept up to date without delays like last one. The servers are some pretty bad ass machines on a ISP fiber backbone in IL. Everyone who is not allergic to 0.7.7 is welcome ! :)


Anticipating 0.8.0!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on July 03, 2008, 12:36:03 AM
Anticipating 0.8.0!

*drum roll* :D



Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on July 05, 2008, 03:52:39 AM
...It's better than coronation street \:D/

Oh god you LIKE that silly british canadian comedy? This was the last place I thought I'd hear about THAT show. :p


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on July 05, 2008, 06:39:54 AM
aah so you want me to update you on the latest happenings to get you up to date? :D


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: zuma on July 22, 2008, 05:42:21 PM
well my opinion is divided
on peak hours i cant connect to bb83.de server (7.7), cause its full 10/10- ok, that should look like  a sign of popularity? but nobody is on the 7.7 RN duel server =(


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Fitacus on July 23, 2008, 08:23:30 AM
Blame Quake Live!


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Narses on July 23, 2008, 09:03:27 PM
but nobody is on the 7.7 RN duel server =(

cause all old GOOD players still play and prefer 071 version...

'Cause you CANT controll ur mouse, when u try to turn right or left, JEEZZ!!! you got a 360º spin...

Yes! I totally agree, this input suckz, I HATE THIS!!! And what i heard many players hate it too.

And that readme file is great idea! I hope somebody will do it.

All the best.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: KKCBulletBill on August 14, 2008, 03:42:11 PM
A simple answer to this unification problem you fine folks have been having is answered equally as simply: The Koopa Klown Car Clan [KKC] is the ultimate in OPen Arena unification and skill. We mainly use the 0.8.0 patch, and encourage all players of the game to unite under our amazing air balloon with a propeller on the bottom.

Having organized play is a strong helper to any FPS, and certainly, if we are all under only one organization, that being this one, of course, it will only benefit us and further serve the desires of the KKC, and who else would want any different?

If you are against the KKC, I perfectly understand your unification issues and anarchy and communist love, and encourage you to report yourself to AOL as soon as possible for believing in communism.

We accept all clan challenges (and will most likely report you to AOL if you win, and will tell them you're a wall hacker).

Thank you, OpenArena, Linux, and beautiful mother Earth, you have finally bared fruit, and that fruit is us, the Koopa Klown Car Clan.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: ic3w1nd on August 15, 2008, 06:04:55 PM
why should i stay to 0.7.1 or 0.7.7 just to find servers? we all updated to 0.8.0 incl. the latest serverfix. it works for us. if there are other servers, its okay, but if not: okay too.

staying at an outdated version just because of the servers isn’t good, because the server administrators don’t have a reason to update, if there are players on thier servers, and the players wont update, unless the server administrator updates.

deadlock :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: SILVERFOX on August 15, 2008, 07:28:28 PM
Friday night a total of 14 players on 8.0 Ouch.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 15, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
ya.. been broke for a while now. 0.7.1 is definately working.

I loved the stuff I seen on 0.8.0 but I cant get server working and no help is available. Yep, frustrating deadlock :)



Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: sago007 on August 16, 2008, 04:26:24 AM
I loved the stuff I seen on 0.8.0 but I cant get server working and no help is available. Yep, frustrating deadlock :)
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2056.0


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Narses on August 16, 2008, 08:20:57 AM
Well, i only wanna say, that i Love new version and thank very much all developers ;)

New input is great and maybe better than 071 input. Only hitting sound is bad and need to be fixed, but all other is great.

..But bad thing is running of 3 different versions, hmm, i hope that at least one version (71 or 77) will be deleted and update on 080... because there are now only 6 players over head on 080....

All the best ;) and have a nice day ;)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: ic3w1nd on August 16, 2008, 09:35:02 AM
Only hitting sound is bad and need to be fixed, ...

And the weapon change sound, and the item picup sound, and the footstep sound and the new plasmagun sound, and ... ;) well ... *g*


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 16, 2008, 11:38:58 AM
I actually liked the new sounds :)

But when I scanned the server list I seen no version info and since it can be compiled with various versions of basegame I seen no way to tell them apart. The problem is worse for the player because the default folder is always the openarena folder in the apps/home location. It would be nice to have these seperate, especially when I now have 3 versions and then I need to go and manually move stuff and I'll just give up before I even launch the game.

I don't really want to go start messing around with config files, especially since I know there's an fs_ cvar on 0.7.1 that has a different effect on later versions. I dont think people just delete the previous version after downloading the new one. If there's a popular server on a previous version then they aren't going to dispose of it to start playing bots and games they don't like like when the serverlist is barely over double figures. I don't know if there are issues with having a sub folder in the apps/home folder. Sub folders are used for mods so it makes sense to have each version located in a seperate location since they may not be compatible with each other and can complicate configs.

I didn't know 0.8.0 was on a different protocol until now so I assumed 0.7.6+ were all on 69. I have updated our server browse to include protocol 70, and only had to edit a couple of lines. http://clanarena.org/browse/getdata_70.php


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Cacatoes on August 16, 2008, 12:45:37 PM
The problem is worse for the player because the default folder is always the openarena folder in the apps/home location. It would be nice to have these seperate, especially when I now have 3 versions and then I need to go and manually move stuff and I'll just give up before I even launch the game.

I don't really want to go start messing around with config files, especially since I know there's an fs_ cvar on 0.7.1 that has a different effect on later versions. I dont think people just delete the previous version after downloading the new one. If there's a popular server on a previous version then they aren't going to dispose of it to start playing bots and games they don't like like when the serverlist is barely over double figures. I don't know if there are issues with having a sub folder in the apps/home folder. Sub folders are used for mods so it makes sense to have each version located in a seperate location since they may not be compatible with each other and can complicate configs.

The problem if you separate "home dirs" is you'll download several times new maps ; or you'll waste some disk space if you copy yourself maps in double.
I haven't tried, but it would be better to let all maps and models on this common home directory, and have specific files in the $installation_dir_0.x.x/baseoa
Also, we are not meant to have several OA versions, keeping them only helps transitions (which were problematic, but which shouldn't be a rule ...)
I didn't do, but some guy wrote some script to be able to deal with versions as he wished.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 16, 2008, 01:15:10 PM
I thought about that too, but I think maps default to baseoa. On the client, people with different versions will still have seperate folders for different games (but doesn't apply to the home folder).  It would be obvious I think that people could just copy the maps over, but they would still have to do that anyway in the current set up.

I think a map will only save to the clients apps folder if there is a sub folder inside the mod called maps, but not too sure. I just remember When I downloaded defrag it unpacked with a maps and demos folder, so they are seperate from the base game maps.

edit: I dont know if linux handles files differently but on windows there isnt generally a base folder in the home/apps folder where the mods are. The baseoa folder will exist in the main basegame location


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Gerbil on August 17, 2008, 07:47:07 PM
I say it's about time we move to oa0.8 lols

just waiting for that mac mirror :P


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Case on August 18, 2008, 02:00:12 AM
I strongly feel  there should be work done to move towards backward compatibility in future versions. Although I couldn't code it                         :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kit89 on August 19, 2008, 06:51:53 AM
Quote
I strongly feel  there should be work done to move towards backward compatibility in future versions. Although I couldn't code it       

Why? These are 0. releases. Guaranteed for mistakes & bugs, as it's still in heavy development. After the 1.1 release you'll start to notice an effort to keep it stable between releases.

For me Backwards compatibility is fine. I have multiple OA versions on my comp all running fine. 0.6.0, 0.7.0/1, 0.7.6/7, & 0.8.0.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Cacatoes on August 19, 2008, 09:08:21 AM
hmm, installing several versions is not what I call "compatibility" ;)

It's just impossible to have compatibility if you don't stick to a single protocol version, the question is : should the protocol version be changed again ? I suppose not.

Compatibility is meant to be maintained within a same branch (without success with 0.7.x branch, as 0.7.6 broke it).
But you can have 0.8.0, 0.8.1, 0.8.2 ... which should just bring some new data packs (adding .pk3 as a patch) and that will work fine.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 19, 2008, 10:36:44 AM
I still play 1.16 up to 1.32 on q3. I have a little program called version switcher that enables me to do so. Many people use it and play on servers they did so years ago. I only use it to enable defrag. I play on servers that have existed for years and years, they are still always busy. Why? The game play is good. What does a number mean to me? Nothing! That's what. I play the game and play the games I enjoy, if I were to dispose of stuff and just move on then I couldn't have enjoyed it that much to begin with. What if you didn't like the direction the game was going, does that mean the game dies when everything just sucks, even though the same people are playing the same game I like on an earlier version?

Sorry, I like the game, not numbers.

edit: I think it's also worth highlighting there maybe community/s at each level, even modifications push a version that may still be going strong today. Even on 1.16 you don't find many servers if at all without delag code, I can't remember ever playing q3 without delagged options.

Impossible? From impossible to one extra click of the mouse to launch the game here for full compatibility...
(http://q3eu.com/images/ofxdialog.gif)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Cacatoes on August 19, 2008, 01:26:48 PM
The thing is, you can't really compare OA and Q3.
First, it's much more dangerous to stick to old versions of a software which is under heavy development, whereas Q3 was already a commercial and finished product. You'll miss some assets, and much things which make "fake-compatibilty" hard to maintain even with an helping software such as the one you use for Q3.
Moreover, It's always a failure if guys have to try several versions to know which one they like, which one they'll use to run their server. We can consider Q3 made some mistakes if they didn't manage to keep one version which makes everyone happy.
Another point is, we're talking about libre software here, it's not really as if we were imprisoned into one of the versions which was released, if you can't live with the project's choice, be sure of what you do and fork it, that will avoid you living with old bugs and having a dead project which can barely evolve. At least you'd be able to take profit of recent protocols, more efficient rendering algorithms, more maps, more bugs corrected, and so on.
But I see no reason of a community split, particularly when what annoys people comes from client-side. We should instead use common servers, would avoid us to have empty servers or having to switch between versions all the time.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 19, 2008, 11:48:32 PM
But then the updated version of the engine on the earlier version is closer to the finished product of q3, the same one as  you suggest. Yet more code changes are implemented in later versions (which has always resulted in patches or issues of some sort) giving the oppertunity of yet more dangerous code.

I play OA basically because it's effectivelly q3 code. The sheep who posted about evolution and such, and the blind people who just follow the sheep onto any road are playing a dangerous game. If these people want to evolve go get off your fat arses and fucking play Q4.. why you stuck on an end of lifed fucking engine then insist on people updating on a q3 based game. Maybe people play it because it's free, then perhaps these people may not be able to afford to pay for hardware required if future releases demand it. Thats why they can't simply just close previous releases of the game.

The way I see it, your either a sheep or a player. A player will give the new version a try. And if the earlier version ends up migrating, then the update is a popular and a succesful one. Some people may not have any reason to update. Most items are already in mods and have been since 2002 and this is the stuff being ported to OA right now. I could simply have most of this stuff stuff in paks. More choice, more stabitlity. An admin who just upgrades with no thought face the same risk. With Q3 it ended up with a yard of broken servers but some good things did escape and survive, like defrag. 

Yes, I agree with many of the comments, like it being a failure if people need to try different versions to find out what they like. That maybe more complex because someone could take all the good stuff from later versions and put it in the earlier version, which is effectively what they done on 1.16. So then an earlier version can be more advanced than a later release. I also agree on the release structure. I hope the release will be patches from now on! No more 300mb upgrades to put in a map or 2 and crosshairs from http://www.bullseyecrosshairs.com/  - I mean what has really changed in the code? It would be simpler if I could just consider the base game and compare the releases. People can be impressed by what has been done while others already have the same features that they have had in some mod released 8 years ago. I could post some really stinging stuff about some of the bullyish ways and insults to try and get people to upgrade but I think there's less of that now. Hopefully the development is moving in the right direction now.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fromhell on August 19, 2008, 11:57:30 PM
I hope the release will be patches from now on!
Unfortunately in the world of Free Software development and the nature of sv_pure, that can't happen. There's no reason to freeze all the big paks at 0.8.0 forever. I mean what if the patches add so much redundancy and get big themselves?

I might do xdelta patches in the future though for the 0.8.0->0.9.0 version jump. (That is, if xdelta is efficient with zipped up stuff and such lol)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 20, 2008, 12:29:59 AM
I've always liked the idea of being able to join a server and try out new stuff, even if it means I have to download packages and maps. It could be a presentation or a close to what you get in the latest release. I don't think I've even seen half the new maps, I just see ones I don't recognise on server browsers. It would be good if there were such servers and then maybe people would see the value of upgrading.

Upgrading and patching now seems to have people concerned and less curious, since the pool of people upgrading seems a harder task each time. It would be good if there could be some comprimise, even if the cost was having big patches to connect to a single server, but still compatible on the platform... then at some stage release the game in a neat bundle. Just a thought. I would like to upgrade myself and others are probably the same too. I think that will happen more as the dark nights close in. It has been holiday season for alot of people and I've heard speculation that the sun actually exists, although I need to travel to witness it. :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: cosmo on August 20, 2008, 02:28:30 AM
So missbehaving please be so kind and tell us what you still like in 0.7.1 and miss in 0.8.0 as you say you don't even know half of the new stuff. Is it just that you gave your heart to the old release? You hurt yourself: Still advertising 0.7 won't bring up new servers running the current version. Backwards compatibility doesn't work when you edited most of the content.

Ever thought about that Q3 was not optimal in every aspect (eg no unlag code) so why do you want every single mod reimplement the same things all over again but the vanilla version goes without?


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: fufinha on August 20, 2008, 10:20:13 AM
That was an old sig, that's all - I didn't inded to advertise anything. I haven't been active due to circumstances.

I don't want every mod reimplemented. It depends on what your definition of modification is. I consider Haste's unlagged to be improved net code as with many other improvements. Just happens some of the code is implemented in certain mods but missing from others. It would be good to have pmove_accurate - that's the only thing missing as far as I would like, but I don't think the source is available. Any change I done was minimal, I only replaced a few sounds in the media folder.

Thanks for the warning. It was beautiful.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: ToasT on August 20, 2008, 06:56:10 PM
  I think this whole situation sux! for everyone. I have all 3 versions on my system and I still play 7.1 almost exclusively! WHY??? It's simple, that's where the best players play on the only servers that have more than 2 real people playing on it. If 8.0 had more players on it then I would be there. The hardcore players are the only ones's that can change this! They have to decide as a group that it's time to move on, Otherwise we will continue down this dividing path that may kill OUR game altogether.
  I am old school I played Quake 1 on dial up with keyboard ONLY. I did not play a FPS online again until I found OA (many years later). I Love this game (all versions), and If I had my choice everyone would simply switch to the latest version and all would be right! Sadly I know that is not that simple........................Flame at will.....

ToasT
 
 


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Case on August 21, 2008, 12:26:38 AM
as sheep I hope that all major releases after 1.x.x will be compatible and that I won't have to redownload a client until 2.x.x Maybe this project should have 2 seperate branches; testing and stable. I've liked every release and hope the fun continues for a long time :) And maybe this is becoming more of an issue because 1.0 is around the corner (hopefully), and nothing has been said about the versioning scheme up until now? idk.



Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: HITMAN on August 21, 2008, 10:19:56 AM
  I think this whole situation sux! for everyone. I have all 3 versions on my system and I still play 7.1 almost exclusively! WHY??? It's simple, that's where the best players play on the only servers that have more than 2 real people playing on it. If 8.0 had more players on it then I would be there. The hardcore players are the only ones's that can change this! They have to decide as a group that it's time to move on, Otherwise we will continue down this dividing path that may kill OUR game altogether.
  I am old school I played Quake 1 on dial up with keyboard ONLY. I did not play a FPS online again until I found OA (many years later). I Love this game (all versions), and If I had my choice everyone would simply switch to the latest version and all would be right! Sadly I know that is not that simple........................Flame at will.....

ToasT
 
 

Well, You may be in luck. Alma's server, Nemesis, maybe upgrading to ver.080 this weekend. So, that will bring alot of clans and best players over to the latest OA. Once this happens, the playerbase on ver.071 should slowly fade out.

HIT


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: chaoticsoldier on August 21, 2008, 10:33:42 AM
Well, You may be in luck. Alma's server, Nemesis, maybe upgrading to ver.080 this weekend. So, that will bring alot of clans and best players over to the latest OA. Once this happens, the playerbase on ver.071 should slowly fade out.

HIT

That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: HITMAN on August 21, 2008, 10:52:56 AM

That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.

I agree but they should only upgrade when it is "safe".  Did you upgrade from XP to Vista when it came out. Hell no..cuz you aint stupid. Software needs to be tested out to be aware of the changes. It appears that ver.080 is looking safe in spite of minor issue it has. I know I'm ready to upgrade now. Question is, Is everyone else im affiliated with ready as well? Some people have MACs and they cant make that move yet. :(


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: chaoticsoldier on August 21, 2008, 11:40:47 AM
I agree but they should only upgrade when it is "safe".  Did you upgrade from XP to Vista when it came out. Hell no..cuz you aint stupid. Software needs to be tested out to be aware of the changes. It appears that ver.080 is looking safe in spite of minor issue it has. I know I'm ready to upgrade now. Question is, Is everyone else im affiliated with ready as well? Some people have MACs and they cant make that move yet. :(

Yes. That's more reasonable. Still, I think in most cases the transition could usually begin within one month if nothing major arises. I believe the sooner the better - except with Vista :)


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: Logan on August 22, 2008, 03:16:06 AM
I play 0.8 all the time now. I have deleted my older versions of OA as the game progressed and if there were more people like me, the servers would have more players. :)

0.8 is awesome. The hitsound though is a little too timid for my liking though.

I usually camp out at a CTF server called unlagged CTF or something like that. I usually change it to FFA via voting. :)

Someone in this thread mentioned a server going up this weekend? Hope it's got great ping, we could use more servers there with a good ping. Someone neeeds to talk to the guys at Beergarden, Digichalk, and Airlogic. Great servers, but last I checked they havn't gotten with the times...


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: kernel panic on August 22, 2008, 05:06:17 AM
Quote
That's the key. If all the servers are updated as soon as the new version is released (which they should be in my opinion), then players will have no choice but to upgrade as well and we'll all move on together as OA develops.

Yep, that's the key: choice. We are talking about software that hasn't reached stable status. Each version introduces/changes a good deal of issues that not everybody like--if they don't break something completely. A lot of people was happy with 0.7.1. The project moved on. That's perfectly fine and a good sign that it's healthy, but you can't expect everybody to keep up with the development pace and blindly upgrade no matter what (*). I myself stay tuned here and on Rainbow forums, yet all these multiple upgrades/patches confused me; I can imagine that a random player, who got the game from who knows where, may just get completely lost about what the hell is going on. On the other hand, it seems that no much testing is done before each release. I mean getting the whole stuff and try it out by no less than ten players; many stupid bugs would be avoided _beforehand_.

You are presuming also that players will kindly accept being forced to something they don't like. I know of people who thought about migrating to Q3 because of the mouse input, for instance. If 0.7.1 wasn't around I guess they would've already done so.

I have the last three OA releases. I probably played 0.7.6 for not more than a couple of days in total, and 0.8 for no more than a couple of hours...and I played _a lot_ to OA these weeks/months. Why imposing anything on players and OA server administrators? Without this choice, many players would have left the boat.

(*) If, at least, there was a workaround to keep compatibility between versions, all this empty servers thing would not be an issue (whether that is at all possible I have no clue).


Title: Re: we got a serious problem here
Post by: chaoticsoldier on August 22, 2008, 07:22:27 AM
They are perfectly valid points. People should be free to retain the old version if they wish, but personally I disagree with that and find it frustrating that not everybody moves on as quickly as I do - because unless the new version simply doesn't work on my system, I see no reason to stick with the older version.

The main difference between me and a lot of other players is that I am content to use OpenArena regardless of the new sounds, options etc - simply because that's the direction the game is heading. And I tolerate the minor bugs because I know they will be fixed in due course.

If players don't like a certain aspect of the game, they are free to have their say and the developers can act on that however they want. That is the nature of the project. Also, the sounds and things have been changed in the past so there is nothing to say that in the next few years, they won't be changed again for some reason. Remember that OA is still in its infancy.

When we get to the end of the road - the final product - and players are still having the same problems I will be very surprised. In the meantime, I believe it can only be beneficial to move along with the development of the game.

But that's just me...


PS: Backwards compatibility is not always possible when too much is changed.

PPS: I think testing can only do so much. There are so many computers with so many operating systems and configurations, etc out there. No matter how hard the developers try, somebody is bound to encounter some kind of bug. Some things are available in the SVN before the new versions are released. Testing these ourselves can also help to reduce bugs in later versions.

Woo! I got reply #100!