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Title: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on August 30, 2008, 07:08:30 PM am_lavaarena2
- Gamemodes: Coming soon... - Playercount: Coming soon... - Weapons: Coming soon... - Powerups & Holdables: Coming Soon... - Items: Coming soon... am_lavactf2 (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/published/mine/am_lavactf2-a2.zip) (ex-am_lavaarenactf and am_lavactf) - CTF, eCTF, Harvester, 1FCTF, Overload, Elimination. - Intended for 3on3 or 4on4. Although it supports 12 players. - Weapons: 2x Shotgun, 2x Rocket Launcher, 2x Plasma Gun, 2x Nailgun, Prox Launcher. - Runes: 2x Doubler, 2x Ammo Regen, 4x Guard. - Items: Teleporter. Started again from scratch. This time, it's better. And before you tell me, yes, there's A LOT of glitches to be fixed. -.- a2 changes: - Added one Guard per base - Fixed texture issues - Specific spawnpoints for Elimination & 1FCTF - DD Spawnpoints - Items and objectives don't stay in lava anymore - Replaced a Nail ammo box per base with MG ammo - Replaced Red Armor with Personal Teleporter. Also added a new area only accesible by Tele, which has Prox Launcher. (http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/8277/shot0007q.th.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/shot0007q.jpg/) (http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4838/shot0006m.th.jpg) (http://img502.imageshack.us/i/shot0006m.jpg/) (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4473/shot0004qs.th.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/i/shot0004qs.jpg/) (http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2999/shot0003vf.th.jpg) (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/shot0003vf.jpg/) (http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5650/shot0002r.th.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/shot0002r.jpg/) (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1170/shot0001zc.th.jpg) (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/shot0001zc.jpg/) (http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/7330/shot0000l.th.jpg) (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/shot0000l.jpg/) Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KL97zcvqXlY am_lavactfxl2 (ex-am_lavaarctfxl) - Gamemodes: Coming soon... - Playercount: Coming soon... - Weapons: Coming soon... - Powerups & Holdables: Coming Soon... - Runes: Coming soon... Credits: - Read the readme file. ^^ Also PsiScythe for giving me the idea for lavactfxl. Any suggestion is welcome. Title: Re: My first CTF attempt: am_lavaarenactf Post by: Neon_Knight on August 30, 2008, 09:50:36 PM Both three maps are in the first post, with their download links.
Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Sauer2 on August 31, 2008, 06:34:10 AM Nice work!
-you took nice textures but -map is a bit too dark. Could you plz lighten it up at the level of q3dm6ish_v2? Cu, sauer2 Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on August 31, 2008, 06:51:48 AM Both three maps are in the first post, with their download links.
Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: kick52 on August 31, 2008, 09:34:48 AM Looks.. uh, quite good for a first attempt!
Mine was shit anyway :p Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on August 31, 2008, 11:42:46 AM ---
Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Sharpflame on August 31, 2008, 06:59:34 PM I like this, the textures and colors are pretty cool and so is the concept. However, I think there is too little distance between the flags, that figure 8 is just going to be a race track instead of ctf. I suggest pulling the figure 8 apart and putting a type of large circular room with a larger lava pool in it to increase the lava theme.
That sounds hard to understand, here's a pic of what I am imagining: (http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3264/lavactfexzx0.png) The quad set in the middle of there for epicness. :) Just my two cents Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on August 31, 2008, 08:40:08 PM I understand the idea, it seems to be a better idea for a CTF map than the one I used in the map. I was figuring that small map in the CTF version will be better for 2on2 matches max. Something like CTF-Tutorial from Unreal Tournament, but with the CTF-Dreary bases. :P
I will see what can I do... Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 02, 2008, 12:44:42 PM I've finished the XL version, tonight (if my ISP allows me ¬¬) I will upload this version and a more pulished am_lavaarenactf one, which also supports DM, TDM and LMS.
Title: am_lavaarenactf (New version) and am_lavaarenactf-xl (XL version) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 02, 2008, 07:52:44 PM ---
Title: Re: am_lavaarenactf (New version) and am_lavaarenactf-xl (XL version) Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 02, 2008, 09:35:19 PM I tried am_lavaarenactf out with some bots and I think it's pretty cool. There were no super-quick runs between bases because I almost always encountered someone from the other team on my way there and back, (not too good for teams with 5+ members IMO, but great for about 3 or 4). And apart from the railgun room there are no real camper hideouts, which is good.
There was only 1 thing that caught my eye: - When /cg_drawteamoverlay is enabled and players are in the tunnels/passages between the bases and the centre of the map, it shows their location as "unknown". I realize this might be hard to change (to specify their location), but for a large percentage of the time everyone is "unknown". Overall, I think it's quite an enjoyable map. Nice job. :) PS: I couldn't get am_lavaarenactf-xl to work. It gave no level shot in the menu and it wouldn't start. :( I did nothing different than what I did with the other version of the map. Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 02, 2008, 09:38:20 PM Try \devmap am_lavaarenactf-xl. (Or \g_gametype 4 -or one of the other numbers from 0 to 11 :P- & \map am_lavaarenactf-xl)
It's so strange, because the .arena file at the pk3 got the exact data. I should have fixed that issue in am_lavaarenactf. Maybe some target_location is out of the world. :/ I said before that lavaarenactf was good for no more than 4 players. A 2on2 game should be great at it. EDIT: Ah, other thing I forgot to mention: both maps had missionpack support. In normal version there are Scout & Guard team items, and in the XL version are the 4 ones. Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 02, 2008, 10:09:00 PM The /devmap command worked, but when I tried to switch gametype it said it would only happen on restart, so I only played in FFA mode. Is there a way around this?
I reckon the middle section will make it a little more interesting - especially with your little secret surprise :D I had to spend a shot to get out because I couldn't find another way. Did you design it this way, or am I just blind? Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 02, 2008, 10:17:43 PM Yes, just put the command \(dev)map am_lavaarenactf-xl again after you put the g_gametype number, and that's it.
And yes, I've designed the map that way, because I thought that if I cut the passages would make a lot of BSP holes. (And I hated them at Unreal Editor ¬¬) So I've thinked how can I use that spots, and remembered an idea I have for another map I created for Unreal Tournament, and used it. ^^ Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 02, 2008, 11:46:54 PM The /devmap command worked, but when I tried to switch gametype it said it would only happen on restart, so I only played in FFA mode. Is there a way around this? That was so dumb! All I had to do was restart the map but I couldn't figure it out. LOL (Had 2.5 hrs sleep last night and it's beginning to show :))The xl version is even better I think. There's plenty of action in the middle too with all those power-ups (at least for humans. The bots didn't seem to go there much) and when the battle suit appears I imagine it will divert some attention away from the flags for a little while. I'll give it a spin on the other game modes later too. I like this map better than most of the other CTF maps actually. Nice. Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 03, 2008, 09:58:59 AM I will fix the errors and made the details (trims and borders) later.
Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: sago007 on September 03, 2008, 10:59:37 AM The bases are still too dark:
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/sergie_dark.jpg) The lights on the roof does not appear to give much light away. The lightning affects the gameplay and that is normally undesirable in a game that uses the id tech 3 engine (you mentioned that you are used to map for Unreal Tournament and there is a significant difference in the engines' lightning system). You should also place nodrop zones in the lava so the flag does not stay down there then dropped. Some bots showed suicide tendencies to get the bfg.... see if you can protect it with botclip to get the bots to ignore it. There is a hole in the floor near the red base. I found the map strangely entertaining. The middle part worked well despite its simple layout. Title: am_lavaarena, am_lavaarenactf & am_lavaarctfxl in one pack Post by: Neon_Knight on September 03, 2008, 08:52:12 PM ---
Title: Re: am_lavaarena, am_lavaarenactf & am_lavaarctfxl in one pack Post by: sago007 on September 04, 2008, 03:52:29 AM where's the playerclip texture? Is is just called 'clip' and is in common with the others.Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: PsYthe on September 06, 2008, 12:26:10 PM I like it a lot! The nailgun is indeed really good. I wonder if replacing it with a plasma gun would be bad...
Playing it with bots, it seems balanced enough but the bots walk on the lava. Instead of using botclip you should use botDoNotEnter (I think that's what it's called). By the way, it was obvious that there was something under the lava :), shoulda been like me and put a secret door with a bio suit hidden behind it and then have to go into a particular acid pool and into a secret tunnel into a secret room which has a secret door which has a large fall into a secret room which has an easter egg in it. Anyways... Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 06, 2008, 03:18:04 PM I'm getting tired to redesign the midfield area.
Maybe the following week to the next I will resume the XL version, this week I had some real-life duties. By now, you got two versions of the same map and a half-ended XL version. :P Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 12, 2008, 04:10:12 PM I've finished by now with my real life duties. Tomorrow I will see what can I do with the mid section...
Title: am_lavaarena (Three versions - CTF XL redone) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 13, 2008, 07:21:41 PM ---
Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: PsYthe on September 13, 2008, 07:28:33 PM I like that middle area better, but I only looked at the screenies. I would bet that the gameplay on that map would be better if you took out the bfg crap, even if it is hard to get. Just IMO it seems silly, donno if anyone would agree with me on that one.
Good work on this, I really hope I can play this online sometime. Title: Re: CTF map: am_lavaarenactf (My first attempt, still beta) Post by: Neon_Knight on September 14, 2008, 05:16:36 PM I've deleted all the old posts with old links and old screens because I will upload the (almost) finished version. I'm tired to fight with this map, and, at least, is playable, works at every mode and blah blah blah...
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on September 14, 2008, 06:30:08 PM Read the first post, now. :)
I will upload some mirrors for this file. Hpe you like & enjoy it. ^^ Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on September 15, 2008, 06:34:01 AM No comments? No "close-the-editor-and-get-a-life"? No "great-map-!!!111!1!"? No "th15 m4p 1s 4 cr4p, j00 n00b m4pp4!!!1!1"? :P
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: cosmo on September 15, 2008, 03:54:52 PM Hey Armageddon_Man.
It's pretty obvious that you come from Unreal as this map looks very Unreal-like. I like it. The map is themed and moody ('cept the outdoor area of your xl version). A few places are too dark (Rocketlauncher and Nailgun spots). For me the small (non-xl) version is more balanced and quiet fine for 2on2 or 3on3 matches although it's very fast. When I tested it the first time which was an earlier version you posted here I prefered am_lavaarena-xl. The small one was too fast for me. With a good placed rocket/strafe jump I'm sure you're able to capture in less than 5 seconds. This is one of the rare maps where a BFG is well placed as there needs to be special effort to get it (although ppl might have problems getting out of the lavapond). The tunnel parts shine but the outer area lacks in a few aspects. The layout is poor and has a few texture issues (lava and sparkles) so the powerups you've chosen are kind of unbalancing. Several times I found myself with a quad powered lightning gun spawncamping in foes base. While Quad is nice in FFA / TDM games it can be annoying in CTF / Domination. For me this outer area needs some redesign as it's way too open and some kind of rail courtyard with no coverage or you decide to go just for certain amount of players and drop the xl version. :( Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on September 15, 2008, 05:34:20 PM Thanks for the comments cosmo. :)
I appreciate it. ^^ I was getting a lot of trouble (BSP trouble, to be more objective) with the old middle area, because every time I built it, it always comes up with another BSP error. -.- The new middle area isn't exactly what I'd like to see of this map, but at least it doesn't generates that annoying BSP holes. -.- The lava & BFG idea was an idea I've implemented for another Unreal map I've built, (I guess that it's still in Nalicity to download, was a very poor map :/) in which you must use the Asbestos Suit to reach the Redeemer and the Antitoxin Suit to reach the UDamage. I was thinking how to build that map for OA, but later I've had other ideas and less time, so maybe in a day in the future I will built it. :/ I didn't know what to put on the other platforms, and yes, maybe there's a lot of powerups there. :/ Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: cosmo on September 16, 2008, 05:53:23 AM We all appreciate reviews and thoughts about the things we do. ;)
I'm looking forward to see how your map turns out in the end. If you have so many troubles with the outer area rethink about it. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on October 10, 2008, 01:53:13 PM Tonight I will upload the newest version. (Possibly the final one of both three maps)
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on October 10, 2008, 02:44:16 PM I have finished, check first post.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on October 10, 2008, 09:01:18 PM Updated the map, I forgot to clip something in the DM version. I also will update the link at the SVN commits thread.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 08, 2008, 09:45:36 AM Updated map. In posts 1, 2 & 4 the maps are attached.
I've fixed some clipping and some other issues in am_lavaarena. ATM there's no more changes to be done to that map. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 18, 2008, 09:16:43 AM Updated am_lavaarena, now with Domination support, (3 domination_points) so you can test the new gametype. ;D
Head to first post. Title: am_lavaarena & CTF versions: Updated links Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2008, 06:53:10 AM Updated links in the first post, thanks to onykage for it. ^^
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Snickersnack on January 06, 2009, 10:30:02 PM I'm having problems downloading the lavaarena maps. I want to test out the single player campaign. Are they still available?
Thanks. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on January 07, 2009, 05:47:34 AM I forgot to change download links. My mistake. ^_^º
Title: am_lavaarena New Version (CTF vers. are out until I finish this one) Post by: Neon_Knight on January 07, 2009, 04:15:37 PM New version out there, as always you can find it at the first post. You'll have to wait for CTF versions.
Caca, you know what to do. ;D Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: sago007 on January 26, 2009, 04:04:05 PM You should change the message flags on the domination_points from "1", "2" and "3" to something that gives more meaning like: "Middle", "Indoor" and "Outdoor".
EDIT: I found the map quite entertaining in Domination (previously only tried CTF and it is some versions ago). The bots navigated really well and I found myself moving quite a lot too. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on January 26, 2009, 05:39:01 PM Seems like using item_botroam worked too. ;D
I need to finish this map, soon or later. -.- Changing messages at domination_points is made in the same way as target_location entity? I'll do it for the next version. Title: am_lavactf-b1 Done ^^ Post by: Neon_Knight on January 28, 2009, 03:23:16 PM New version of am_lavactf. After it, I can make am_lavactfxl and finish once and for all (?) am_lavaarena. ^^
As always, you can find it at the first post of this thread. :) - Made from half of last am_lavaarena. Only the body armor side. - CTF, 1FCTF, Harvester, Overload, eCTF & DD. - Only few weapons: Rocket Launcher, Railgun, Nailgun & Shotgun. - Team Items: Guard, Ammo Regen & Doubler. Only works with Mission Pack, although I'd wish to play normal OA with these items and Kamikaze/Invulnerability... :/ - Combat Armor - Separated North & South Hallway (the ones with computers) from Railgun area. I guess Railgun should have a defensive use here. - Added some ambient sounds. I hope people won't hate me for this. :P Although I wish to find some volume regulator for the target_speaker entity. - Included with map source, license, and pk3, is the model source for T.I. - Minor details. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on January 28, 2009, 04:16:29 PM Re-uploaded screenshots of am_lavactf. It seems like some old screenies weren't overwroted, so I've uploaded them again.
Title: am_lavactfxl Done. ^^ Post by: Neon_Knight on January 30, 2009, 11:53:27 AM Uploaded am_lavactfxl.
Based on am_lavaarena, plus am_lavactf bases, and a different weapon & item layout. - Weapons: Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, Plasma Gun, Railgun, Lightning Gun, BFG10K, Nailgun. - Powerups: Haste, Battle Suit. - Other items: Megahealth, Body Armor, and the "reglamentary" health and armor shards. ;D PS: Don't suggest BFG to be removed. :) There aren't almost maps with this weapon in, only ATM oa_ctf4ish. Title: am_lavaarena & am_lavactf ready to hit the road. ^^ Post by: Neon_Knight on January 30, 2009, 10:29:42 PM Hell... that was a lot of work done on these days...
Anyways, new version of am_lavaarena: - Hinting! ^^ I've finally learned on how to hint, or at least, I guess that. :D - Closed windows between Railgun and Body Armor, and put a Teleporter which sends the player to ceiling at outside zone, just after Battle Suit. Don't worry, that zone has a trigger_hurt which takes 1 damage per snap to the player. ^^ - Added target_locations to both DOM (there are DOM-specific ones) & other gametypes. - Removed catwalk in Nailgun area. I'll be committing this map to SVN thread. Link and screenshots, as always, found at the first post. EDIT: I've updated am_lavactf too. It has some minor corrections as well as target_locations. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on January 31, 2009, 06:21:50 PM Reuploaded...
Basically I forgot to add the nodrop zone to lava pits, so items -specially flags- would stay at the lava pit until these automatically returned to their original place. With this I also made BFG will be floating in the lava. Title: am_lavaarena-b3 upped up!!! Post by: Neon_Knight on June 27, 2009, 02:41:28 PM Newer version of am_lavaarena.
Since now, I'll only upload maps to the topics, not in the SVNC thread, until fromhell say "the new version will be released on XX/XX/XXXX". Changes: - Enlarged center & right vertical passages. - Fixed some misalignments. - Weapon/item placement entirely redone - Added Elimination team spawnpoints. - Hinting, clusterportaling, clipping & botclipping redone. - Raised a bit the haste platform in the outer zone. - Due to the enlarging, the teleporter is now moved onto the end of a corridor. - More changes that I didn't remember. However, there's a nasty bug which I don't know where it comes... and I don't know how to get rid of it, a bad light which hasn't any source. (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5356/errortsu.th.jpg) (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/errortsu.jpg/) EDIT: There's also another bug on Elimination. I thought using team_CTF_***player would make players of *** team respawn there, but it seems like an info_player_start is still needed. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: sago007 on June 27, 2009, 03:57:55 PM I downloaded it tested it. Are you sure you have the right aas file in beta 3? It didn't load for me and had a timestamp older than the bsp.
I actually opened the map file and made a few changes. And here are my findings: Remove the hint brushes. The map doesn't need them. Hint brushes should be used if you have a really good reason to do so (like reducing worst case tris count by 1000+). To justify a hint brush you must be able to say: "My map plays much better now" after you have placed it or it is a bad hintbrush. Removing the hint brushes and compiling gave no performance change for me and worst case tris count was fully acceptable either way. You appear to have gametype flags on all spawnpoints. If you don't need to disable a spawnpoint for a specific gametype don't use them. New FFA gametypes might be added later and the gametype flags will ruin them. I don't want you to remove all gametype flags as they might be needed to prevent a player spawning too close to a Domination Point in Dom or such but there should be at least some without the flags. Elimination needs either a team_CTF_*spawn point OR a ffa spawnpoint for initial spawns. Removing the gametype flag from some of the ffa spawnpoints will solve it but adding team_CTF_*spawn points might feel better. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on June 27, 2009, 05:12:58 PM I've added 8 team_CTF_* for each team at separate sides. It didn't work.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: sago007 on June 27, 2009, 05:57:24 PM I've added 8 team_CTF_* for each team at separate sides. It didn't work. The version I downloaded only had team_CTF_*player spawn points in it.The map crashes the game if gametype is set to 4 or other unsupported gametypes. Sure the map is not designed for CTF but it may never crash it! The intermission point appears to be stuck in a wall. I cannot move as a spectator. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on June 30, 2009, 05:56:48 PM I'll fix those, thanks for the info.
It's strange, I could move myself very well as a spec. CTF XL version ready to go: (I'm tired of those tiny clusters (*)) * Playercount: up to 9 players per team. * Weapons: Shotgun, (given at start) Rocket Launcher, Plasma Gun, (given at start) Railgun, Lightning Gun, BFG10K, Nailgun. * Runes: Doubler, Scout, Guard & Ammo Regen, two of each per base. * Powerups: Regeneration. * Holdables: Kamikaze. * Others: Red Armor & health. (Maybe I should spread more health in the level?) Notes: * I've tried to keep r_speeds in a relatively slow number, (NOTE: when I wrote this the map had hints, but due to the new changes I removed all those hints and didn't hinted the map since then) to favour constant FPS on lightmap settings, however, I think the level is (very) poor on details. What should I add to it? * Main changes from the new lavaarena: the window to defend the flag, replacing the teleporter and dead end (the only way to reach Battle Suit this time is by RJ to it). Also, structural changes to improve VIS. * There's an annoying tiny cluster. I can't get rid of it. -.- This is bspc output, without clusterportals: Quote cluster 1 has 380 reachability areas cluster 2 has 9 reachability areas cluster 3 has 368 reachability areas These are other changes from am_lavaarena: * Removed windows. * New passage, parallel to the one starting from the crossing and ending in the Railgun side, this one ends at the entrance to the flag base. You have the linkage and screenage at the first post as always. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Ivan_D on June 30, 2009, 09:50:15 PM Quote <Ivan> yay, 60 fps ftw <Ivan> mega in the middle, cool <Ivan> battle suit also <Ivan> and omg, bfg ammo <Ivan> aha, so this is where bfg is, cool <Neon_Knight> yeah, but he needs comments about his map, things which he should improve and stuff like that :D <Neon_Knight> yeah, that place where the bfg is shouldn't interfere with the gameplay of the map <Neon_Knight> that's why bs and bfg are in their places <Ivan> I'll just copypaste the chat from here later <Ivan> well... <Ivan> I can tell u now what noobs say when they see bfg in someone's hands on that map :) <Neon_Knight> it's not too easy to fool with if you have a railgun and see someone getting off from the lava pool :D <Ivan> true <Ivan> eslecially about railgun <Ivan> *especially <Ivan> the center will be a cmaping space <Ivan> *camping <Ivan> and all these looooong corridors too :) <Ivan> camp4fun1 <Ivan> ! <Neon_Knight> lol <Neon_Knight> there's a lot of work to be done yet <Ivan> well, I can't say I don't like the map. It's kinda fun <Neon_Knight> I thought on doing a second level <Ivan> omg it's large enough to be played 4x5 ot 5x5 already <Ivan> wil all these weapons <Ivan> *with <Ivan> *4x4 (what's wrong with me tonight?) <Neon_Knight> we all has those moments -.- <Neon_Knight> *have <Ivan> ok, standart rj from the flag to rail window... then 2 RJs over the lava pool in center <Ivan> rail window jump is cool btw :D <Neon_Knight> like nexuiz' laser jump? :P <Ivan> oh, I haven't played nexuiz :) <Neon_Knight> I played a bit of it, too much laserjump lol <Neon_Knight> there's a dedicadted server where I live <Neon_Knight> but I didn't played so much of it <Neon_Knight> (so much little time -.-) <Ivan> :) <Ivan> phew, doesn't look like that flagrunner-singler would be able to do much here * Evil|ObaMa has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5/20090624025744]) <Ivan> the map is huge, has big wide open spaces for campers (w00t) and... <Ivan> and the chances to die in the middle are quite high <Ivan> fo teamwork ftw <Ivan> *so <Neon_Knight> I don't know what more to add to this map, a second level maybe? over the actual level, that even would increase the supported size and have the possibility to add more weapons, even 2 of some of the actual weapons in the map... <Neon_Knight> or what more to do <Ivan> maybe teleporters? <Ivan> the mape is HUGE <Neon_Knight> from where to where? <Ivan> don't know yet <Ivan> have to think about it <Ivan> ha, lol, can't plasmaclimb to battle suit because of the edging <Neon_Knight> actually there's a team of mh-regeneration in the middle area <Neon_Knight> they have a delay of 30 secods of spawn <Neon_Knight> *seconds <Ivan> yep :) <Ivan> it's good <Ivan> actually no teleporters... I've just made a cap for 11 seconds <Neon_Knight> scoring in this map won't be easy, so I wanted to give some chance to the carrier <Ivan> any teleporters would break the things <Neon_Knight> I was thinking on a good position for a teleporter <Neon_Knight> if I decide to implement the second level <Neon_Knight> it would go from the middle-wall entrance on the second floor to the Railgun area <Ivan> then all flagcap will be: take the flag, jump into the teleporter, jump out for other side, jump to your teleporter, jump out, make the cap <Ivan> kinda easy <Ivan> are you serious about second level? <Neon_Knight> well, I don't know how it would end until I see how to implement it <Neon_Knight> I didn't beared in mind weaponjumps <Ivan> except jumps to battle suit and bfg ammo <Neon_Knight> yep <Neon_Knight> there's a lot of things to do, but ATM I'm happy with how the map is <Ivan> map is very well <Ivan> lol, clumzy flagrunners like myself will frequently take hot relaxing lava bathes <Ivan> <Neon_Knight> there's a lot of things to do, but ATM I'm happy with how the map is | like what? <Neon_Knight> tbh... aside from hinting and botplay, I don't know <Neon_Knight> my idea is to make this map to have constant FPS <Neon_Knight> in lightmap mode <Ivan> oh <Neon_Knight> for example 125fps constant... without any downside <Neon_Knight> r_speeds really lower <Neon_Knight> but without having to drop detail <Neon_Knight> talking about detail I see this map as very very lower in that part <Neon_Knight> empty <Ivan> sry, dunno about r_speeds, never used it <Ivan> but better fps would be nice <Ivan> wooh, I need to train that rj: from middle 25 hp ball to the corridor with plasma <Ivan> and btw that's hinting.. not hunting <Ivan> what does hinting mean? <Ivan> you should add an award for throwing bots into lava pools with bfg :DD <Ivan> so fun lol <Neon_Knight> hinting is something from level editing :P <Ivan> so it's understandable only by u, ok :) <Neon_Knight> hint brushes "tells" the compiler where to (not) put portals, the less portals in the map the better for vis <Neon_Knight> portals draws the line where the renderer renderizes geometry in-game <Ivan> ok, enough <Neon_Knight> without hinting the entire map is unnecesarily drawn <Neon_Knight> wasting fps and that kind of stuff <Neon_Knight> that have a lot to do with FPS, some areas will be a pain in the ass even with vertex light lol <MIOW> <Neon_Knight> MIOW: my map? | i was replying to: <dash9> Neon_Knight, what does "XL" in CTF XL mean? <MIOW> just a guess <Neon_Knight> long story (?) <MIOW> O.o <Neon_Knight> the original LavaArena was a small map <Neon_Knight> the original LavaArena DM had only the flag base <Ivan> <Neon_Knight> that have a lot to do with FPS, some areas will be a pain in the ass even with vertex light lol | ok <Neon_Knight> with the time it increased, and it included the center area of XL <Neon_Knight> the original lavactf (not lavactfxl) was that flag base mirrored <Neon_Knight> it's still that way <Neon_Knight> it's a very very small map <Neon_Knight> then PsiScythe suggested me to add a big area to that map <Neon_Knight> lol that was 6 or 7 months ago, in 0.8.0 time <Neon_Knight> ahm... 8 or 9 should I say <Neon_Knight> whoa... time goes very fast o.O <Ivan> indeed <Neon_Knight> the original lavaarena was my second map for OA <Neon_Knight> I was playing a bit with original q3 maps on oax lol <Ivan> w00t, bfg jumps in battle suit are so fun :D Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on July 17, 2009, 09:44:53 PM b4, only entity changes.
- Fixed info_player_deathmatches, so there're startpoints for both Elimination and normal gametypes. It fixes the "couldn't find spawnpoint" error in the gametypes. - Deleted hintings. - Many other fixings. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on July 26, 2009, 08:51:15 AM am_lavaarena-b5:
* Fixed items not showing up on SP. am_lavactfxl-b4: * BS & BFG ammo aren't anymore on the area's entrance. Those were moved to separate platforms. There's a Regen for each team in their old place. * No RG ammo. I was in doubt of pulling Ammo Regen out of the map too. * Minor changes. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on September 16, 2009, 09:24:23 PM I've ended not so much happy/convinced with the old LavaArena's design, (it was very messy with vis anyways) so I'm redoing it from scratch, with a totally different look, more industrial. Here're some screenshots of the new LavaCTF. It'll be nice for 4-5 players per team, I guess. (4 is my estimation, the passages are narrower compared with the older versions) And of corse, doing LavaArena after them.
When I finish this one, I'll make LavaCTFXL with bigger matches in mind, let's say, 8-10 players per team. I think it'll run well that way. (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2803/lavactf21.th.jpg) (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/lavactf21.jpg/) (http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4846/lavactf22.th.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/lavactf22.jpg/) (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2142/lavactf23.th.jpg) (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/lavactf23.jpg/) (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5073/lavactf24.th.jpg) (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/lavactf24.jpg/) 1-General vision of the map w/o caulk. 2-Center area. 3-Blue base. (Storage depot) 4-Red base. (Research labs, NG area) As you can see on the screens, I'm doing one side as a "research lab"-ish, and the other as a "storage depot"-ish area. I'm trying to make both sides as balanced as possible, anyways. I don't have any idea on what textures and stuff walls (and ceilings) will have ATM, but the floor is ready. I'm wondering what can I put on the middle, instead of the classic "Quad-Armor-Haste-or-Regen" pattern. NG will be in the map, (It'll take both RG & SG place) RG won't be there. RL for sure, and I'm wondering if I should put PG, GL and/or LG here. I'll add few runes. (I'm thinking on 2xAmmo Regen & 2xGuard per base) Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 22, 2009, 05:33:40 PM If everything is fine, tonight I'll be delivering the new lavactf, otherwise, you'll have to wait until tomorrow... :/
Title: am_lavactf2 uploaded ^^ Post by: Neon_Knight on November 22, 2009, 09:14:57 PM Uploaded am_lavactf2. Also deleted the older am_lava* maps.
There's a lot of glitches to be fixed, but I can't get rid of many of them. -.- I'll be doing am_lavaarena and am_lavactfxl later... maybe am_lavactfxl will have a new layout, different from the older one. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on November 23, 2009, 12:55:34 AM It's pretty, I like the colors and different design of the bases. The two nailguns and additional nailgun ammos are too much for the narrow corridors. They can stay on the bases but with reduced ammo (5 with the weapon pickup, no additional ammo) and higher respawn time, or place only one in the red armor room.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 23, 2009, 06:31:48 AM Yep, I guess I'll be replacing them with another weapon. :/ There's a Guard by base, anyways.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on November 23, 2009, 10:42:18 AM Yep, I guess I'll be replacing them with another weapon. :/ There's a Guard by base, anyways. I've played with cg_runes 0. [offtopic]I was thinking that maybe there should be another variable to entirely switch off TA features. With a guard nailgun is not a problem anymore, and doubler makes any weapon as strong as the nailgun. The same goes for holdables. In 0.8.5 oa_ctf4ish has a kamikaze, but there wasn't in 0.8.1. Well it's fun, but how can I get the pure vanilla Q3 experience?[/offtopic] Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 23, 2009, 11:15:55 AM oa_ctf4ish in 0.8.1 had a kamikaze too. I didn't saw any change to oa_ctf4ish in 0.8.5.
I've proposed to sago many times the cvar g_classicmode 1 to remove (or at least change) TA stuff, and there're plenty of other CTF maps in OA which already gave the vq3 experience. (I'm thinking on oasago2 and pul1ctf) Removing stuff because of map unbalancing and issues is a good reason. Removing because "X don't belong to OA/Q3"... (where X is not only TA's stuff, it's also teleporter, medkit and specially the BFG) well... I fail to see it as nothing but a purist comment. :) I had some plans for the other maps I'm thinking on redoing, anyways. Maybe some of them won't have TA stuff. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Cacatoes on November 23, 2009, 11:48:56 AM It had, but only enabled with missionpack mod on.
Play it on any 0.8.1 baseoa server, there is no kamikaze available. Like Udi, I noticed it was here with 0.8.5, and I wish there was a way to remove it ;) (I said myself "of course there has to be some cvar for it", so I didn't point the issue before :D) Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 23, 2009, 11:53:06 AM Anyways, we have already a topic to discuss about TA's stuff: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3378.0
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: sago007 on November 23, 2009, 01:41:30 PM (I said myself "of course there has to be some cvar for it", so I didn't point the issue before :D) Of course there is.All items has checks if the cvar "disable_[ITEMNAME]" has been set and is non-zero. Like: /set disable_holdable_kamikaze 1 Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Falkland on November 23, 2009, 03:36:55 PM All items has checks if the cvar "disable_[ITEMNAME]" has been set and is non-zero. Like: /set disable_holdable_kamikaze 1 I guess every items could be even replaced too : Code:
This should replace kamikaze with a spawn point ( Source : NoGhost forum -> http://forums.noghost.net/cgi-bin/ib/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=9;t=1996;hl=add+and+spawn ) Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 23, 2009, 11:46:21 PM I finally got a chance to test am_lavactf2 today. I think it's great. I really like the look and it plays well.
One small thing though: The enemy flag doesn't return instantly if you fall into the lava while holding it. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2009, 06:14:19 AM There're lots of things to fix yet. I almost forgot what brushes goes into the lava. :S
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2009, 09:03:34 AM These are the changes I'm doing right now:
* Added another Guard by base. That should help the players to control the Nailgun a bit more. * Fixed some texture alignment problems. I don't know how the heck to get rid of those glitches at walls in the curved passages. -.- * Specific spawnpoints for One Flag CTF & Elimination. Everyone starts in the same area. * Added spawnpoints for Double DOM. Needs more spread, anyways. * Items and objectives (flags and skulls) don't stay on lava anymore. (I almost forgot how to do this!!! -.-) * Replaced the Nail ammo box on flag bases with MG ammo. I wanted to replace the Red armor in the middle area (with the two Guards per base and the health around the map, I think the armor overbloats it) with another item. So far, this is what I think: - Teleporter => My first candidate, but I don't know how much useful it would be, because after teleporting flag carriers loses the flag. Maybe for escaping from the lava, or using a trick which is already on some of the TA maps: going to a separate area where there's a big goodie, and two teleporters going back to the arena. I don't know anyways. - Invisibility => Can be a good candidate, but I don't know. - Invulnerability => Maybe, depending on the model done for it. (Noob Sauce and Snickersnack were doing a model for it, but it was left in hell :/ and it seems that nobody would care to do a model for that effect... damn puritanism... -.-) It shouldn't be used to block a passage, so maybe not. - Removing one of the two Guard? This isn't an idea I like too much, anyways. - Quad damage => No. There's a Doubler by base already. Also would overpower any weapon in combination, not just the Nailgun. - Haste => No. Small map. That goes also for Scout. - Regeneration => same with the Red Armor and the Medkit. Too much health and the two Guards. - Flight => No. Just no. - Kamikaze => No. Too small map. I'm thinking also to get rid of the Ammo Regen, to help in controlling the Nailgun a bit more. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2009, 02:19:31 PM I'm trying a new twist to the map:
Aside of all the changes already mentioned above, I've replaced the Red Armor with a Teleporter. Above of the center area, there's a new "floor", only accesible with this item. There's a Prox Launcher here, which can only be picked up by the P-Tele user, with also two triggers teleporting back to the arena. This Prox has 30 seconds of respawn, and 5 mines by default. Teams will have something to time up, and the weapon should be used wisely in bases. (I'm not sure about its actual utility anyways, with two Guards the Prox Launcher is almost useless in this map - there's near to no chance of mine spamming, unless someone picks up the Ammo Regen, and even if that happens, anyways, the ammo regenerates slowly and won't regenerate if the weapon is being used, AFAIK) I'll upload the map so you can test. And PLEASE!!! test this map with EVERYTHING ON!!! That's the best (and only? Although I don't like the "only ways") way to see if this map works well in its actual state. I know that most of the people who plays OA/Q3/QL online hates TA stuff, but well, I try to make them to be in line with the maps, and it's good to have some variety. Title: am_lavactf2-a2 uploaded. ^^ Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2009, 05:23:15 PM Uploaded... enjoy and comment. ^^
Changes: a2 changes: - Added one Guard per base - Fixed texture issues - Specific spawnpoints for Elimination & 1FCTF - DD Spawnpoints - Items and objectives don't stay in lava anymore - Replaced a Nail ammo box per base with MG ammo - Replaced Red Armor with Personal Teleporter. Also added a new area only accesible by Tele, which has Prox Launcher. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: cosmo on November 24, 2009, 05:37:23 PM Which map? Downloadlink? I took the only one in your first post (which was not obvious to be a download link). It's the new CTF version.
Tested in vanilla OA CTF against bots. The new layout looks well made and clean. Good work. Looks like a 'Descent 3' map. But are you serious? The whole structure of the map seems to be boring. Only long corridors and exactly 3 rooms. Almost no vertical action. What I did not like about am_underworks is killing this map for me. Get the Rocketlauncher and kill everybody in your way because there is no escape. If you like to create a fun map this is definitely a go. So I do not get the deal about the teleporter. Only to access the proxy mine launcher? I'd prefer a RA because it is the key to successfully retrieving the flag of the enemy base. Btw: How do you control where the teleporter item leads to? In oa_koth2 I got the feeling it is a random player spawn. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on November 24, 2009, 06:19:06 PM Tested in vanilla OA CTF against bots. He specifically asked us for testing it with all the TA stuff, runes etc, because that can change the whole gameplay. With the two guards there's no need for the RA, and the Rocket Launcher also loses some of it's power if played with runes. I don't think it's boring, even with bots if you don't focus the enemy can make some easy and incredibly fast captures, there's enough routes to the bases so you won't be able to catch the carrier in time. Not to mention if he/she has a guard :). So I think it's a cool map, simple but fast and deadly. I have two suggestions:
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 24, 2009, 08:25:21 PM Which map? Downloadlink? I took the only one in your first post (which was not obvious to be a download link). It's the new CTF version. I'm focusing as of now on lavactf2, that's why the other two has "Coming soon", because I didn't want them to be played because of being older versions.Tested in vanilla OA CTF against bots. Which version? 0.8.1? 0.8.5? Did you've tested with Runes and the remaining TA stuff? This map has pretty much emphasis on that.The new layout looks well made and clean. Good work. Looks like a 'Descent 3' map. But are you serious? I thought on this map as a "beginner" map, some kind of "how-to-play-CTF" one, with some extra stuff. Small CTF matches with no more than 6 people, 3 by team. (And I'm not so sure if 3 is too much) That can go for the other modes as well.The whole structure of the map seems to be boring. Only long corridors and exactly 3 rooms. Almost no vertical action. What I did not like about am_underworks is killing this map for me. Get the Rocketlauncher and kill everybody in your way because there is no escape. If you like to create a fun map this is definitely a go. So I do not get the deal about the teleporter. Only to access the proxy mine launcher? I'd prefer a RA because it is the key to successfully retrieving the flag of the enemy base. The mappers on Team Arena only put one info_player_deathmatch/start in the whole map, (look at Scornforge, mpteam4) which has been placed on the entrance to the "secret" area. In the TA mapping manual which comes with GTKR it states that in the Design Tips section.Btw: How do you control where the teleporter item leads to? In oa_koth2 I got the feeling it is a random player spawn. BTW, the Tele can be used also to escape from lava, whereas the RA just makes the player to receive very few damage. Not only controlling the Tele would gave the player access to the mines, it also helps in the worst scenario. Both this map and reptctf11 are my proofs that TA stuff can have its place on OA as well. am_underworks2 is my comp-map attemp, (blitzkrieg3 too, both boczeq and I wanted it to be a comp-map) despite that the least thing I (we) have is user feedback from comp players. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: cosmo on November 25, 2009, 03:51:38 AM He specifically asked us for testing it with all the TA stuff, runes etc, because that can change the whole gameplay. With the two guards there's no need for the RA, and the Rocket Launcher also loses some of it's power if played with runes. I don't think it's boring, even with bots if you don't focus the enemy can make some easy and incredibly fast captures, there's enough routes to the bases so you won't be able to catch the carrier in time. Not to mention if he/she has a guard :). So I think it's a cool map, simple but fast and deadly. Just relying on TA items does not do it for me. The whole layout (not the design) is more important in my point of view. As a beginners environment to learn it is simple and good. Then we need an altered singleplayer to get beginners play this! I fear the whole thing is too fast for 'lets set up a proximity mine trap' tactics. You delay the access to the proxy mine launcher by long teleporter respawn times. So this item is of occasional usage- one rocketjump will get you out of business which is way easier to accomplish with Guard. Although the idea is great. It reminds me of doing a map full of traps which can be activated by players. *snicker* Still the tools of trade are learning how to us a RL here. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 25, 2009, 07:27:15 AM He specifically asked us for testing it with all the TA stuff, runes etc, because that can change the whole gameplay. With the two guards there's no need for the RA, and the Rocket Launcher also loses some of it's power if played with runes. I don't think it's boring, even with bots if you don't focus the enemy can make some easy and incredibly fast captures, there's enough routes to the bases so you won't be able to catch the carrier in time. Not to mention if he/she has a guard :). So I think it's a cool map, simple but fast and deadly. Just relying on TA items does not do it for me. The whole layout (not the design) is more important in my point of view. As a beginners environment to learn it is simple and good. Then we need an altered singleplayer to get beginners play this! I fear the whole thing is too fast for 'lets set up a proximity mine trap' tactics. You delay the access to the proxy mine launcher by long teleporter respawn times. So this item is of occasional usage- one rocketjump will get you out of business which is way easier to accomplish with Guard. Although the idea is great. It reminds me of doing a map full of traps which can be activated by players. *snicker* Still the tools of trade are learning how to us a RL here. It's me, or you're relying ONLY (or at least TOO MUCH) on the online competitive side? Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: kernel panic on November 25, 2009, 08:55:43 AM Oh, I know how to reply to this. And I'm going to do it mainly because you broke my balls already. Q3, of which like it or not OA is a clone, is a competitive game. Its enourmous success didn't come from retarded short-lived 'fun' tricks that players could do in-game. It won its popularity due to the amazingly good physics and playability that encouraged players to learn its ways. Those physics and a very well thought set of weapons provided the players with many degrees of freedom to master and put in practice in the arena. We are talking about a game that basically consists in shooting at your opponents to score points. Whether you take it as a competition or as pure fun, the game remains the same.
The distinction between 'fun'and 'competitive' maps is artificial. There are two kinds of maps: the good ones and the crap ones. The less bad of the latter will be played for a while but will not really make it for too long unless a constant flow of noobs is pumped to the servers. In newspeak, 'fun' maps are what in more honest times one would refer to as 'crap' ones. Good maps are fun precisely because they are balanced, facilitate (or rather don't obstruct) good movement and encourage clever gameplay. You can have whatever attitude you fancy while playing, good maps won't get in your way. On the other hand, 'fun'/crap maps (I hope the meaning is clear now) will negatively condition your game play, be it because their geometry is badly designed (or too poor, or with a hideously chosen scale, or with the wrong distances, whatever) and/or because of stupid items and weapons placement (an almost sure to have flaw when the mapper insists on using the new 'fun' weapons from TA). In summary, crap maps are crap maps no matter how you look at them. The only good maps are the competitive ones. Nobody plays this game for the high quality of its graphical content. Gameplay is all that matters, and OA is an online competitive game. Under this light, your wondering about whether Cosmo is "relying ONLY (or at least TOO MUCH) on the online competitive side" is utterly absurd. PS. Which leads me to the conclusion that instead you are relying on the (barely non-existent) single-player friendly aspect of the game. PPS. For the record, I don't give a damn about your maps. I only posted this to support the right attitude when it comes to map design. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on November 25, 2009, 01:55:05 PM It's not a place to argue whether a single player audience exists or not, but believe there is one.
Quoting Star Wars: "Only a sith speaks in absolutes." But if you have binary syndrome, here's the deal: from the view of OA there are GPLed maps and non GPLed maps. If you keep kicking contributors in the teeth you lose OA maps. The texture replacement project is not in a good shape, so right now you cannot play all the pro Q3 maps. Either leave non-competitive maps and mappers alone, or ask them politely, or hire them with donations, or fork the bad maps, or create new maps from scratch, or make textures so you can play Q3, CPMA etc. maps. There's a wide scale you can _help_ the game, just grab one. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: cosmo on November 25, 2009, 03:01:20 PM Thanks kernel panic. I would not like it that harsh but yes, you got the point. I am fed up by seeing players going only for a single map again and again. It might became better with 0.81 but not much. OA includes with more than 30 maps but only a hand full gets played by the audience. You might say in Q3A there were just a few maps which are classics and get played no matter if competitive. At all I have the slight feeling there are more good/high quality maps in Q3A than we have so far.
Something like a quality control would help OA a lot for: 1. reducing file size which fromhell is complaining about 2. keep it fresh and entertaining without many disappointments 3. OA will shine as a good quality project Of course there are funmaps like 'fan' which are not serious. There are servers which have them in rotation. Regard me as a Single Player player or at least it is important for me to have one. I never liked fan and love the few good maps because I enjoy a good fight which feels good instead of brainless carnage. The latter can be nice for a few minutes but not motivating for long. Conclusion: yes, I try harder to create maps with more competitive play which does not deny good looking, high quality maps. (Your 2nd attempt of this map is good looking and of high quality, Neon Knight) It is a matter of time and experience. A lot of testing is required which could mostly be done by a team of testers (testing not only maps but check playermodel animations, sounds, etc). Still I am not satisfied with the ones I created because I didn't talk with enough people about it. Anyway you will get the best critics and hints in play with other humans. There are a lot of jerks on other forums telling you everything is 'none sense' but don't tell you why. Yep, people without manners. Children. Do not take them serious. I just told you what came to my mind when I tested your map with TA (but you asked for). I had to kick whole TA out of my OA folder because it messed things up. q3map2 was looking for the wrong shaders. Sure TA is alluring. Vanilla OA still lacks things. I am not sure if it was a good idea to include most of the things into default OA. Okay, more weapons are cool. The additional powerups are fancy but a little bit confusing. Q3A TA was never accepted by players because it's not balanced enough. It is average like average, not good maps which don't find their way into server rotations. We would need to tweak them a lot to get them good. I like the Nailgun myself and that is why I put it into new ctf_inyard although I know it should do less damage. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Falkland on November 26, 2009, 04:42:10 PM .... from the view of OA there are GPLed maps and non GPLed maps. If you keep kicking contributors in the teeth you lose OA maps. From the point of view of OA there are good maps and horrible/unplayable/boring maps ... STOP OA doesn't need new "oa_ctf2-delta-czest***-cbctf1"-like maps , but replacing them with good-quality-maps. Or at least OA needs a map repository , a better and advanced download system ( with messages that explain what a player has to do ) and a higher focus on the texture replacement project ( even if many good maps are known to work in OA as they are - see W1zard's map-collection-pack ) so to let servers admins to use the large amounts of Q3-compatible maps Frankly , the quality of a free project should be in general commonly and as much as possible objectively accepted as "good" simply because if the final user will discover it's not confomed to what you'd expect from it/ will be not happy with it , the user will stop playing and will wipe the installation without thinking ( HE/SHE DID NOT BUY IT BY SPENDING MONEY ). Quantity over quality is what OA DOES NOT NEED AT ALL at the moment : - http://www.google.com/trends?q=openarena - http://www.google.com/trends?q=urban+terror - http://www.google.com/trends?q=openarena%2C+urban+terror - http://www.google.com/trends?q=openarena%2C+quake+3%2C+urban+terror Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on November 26, 2009, 07:36:57 PM - http://www.google.com/trends?q=urban+terror Nice relevant keywords there:
Quality is a subjective matter, both you and me think that oa_bases# are crappy maps. In another topic you said you would also remove czest1tourney, suspended and fan because they are garbage. But I say those are great maps, if you remove them you kill the refreshing maps from the single player mode. The same goes for lavactf2, I like it, you don't. So if it won't get into the next release I would be sad and wipe out the game from my harddrive. But the difference is, that probably you wouldn't heard any complains from me, since I don't value face2face competition I wouldn't even bother to argue in discussions. "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" I think there's a much more larger audience out there which we don't see and even Google cannot see, and if we drop out the maps which some of us don't value high, than we do more harm than good. Let's put a little more emphasize on _Open_ Arena and don't rip out content making it Q3_Min_. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: fromhell on November 27, 2009, 02:11:16 AM Urban Terror is an unfair comparison regardless of irrelevant search results. Urban Terror started out in 1999, and relied heavily on third party content sites for its maps. Urban Terror didn't have restrictions for license consideration. The peak of UrT's content production was in 2003. Many of their 'best' (such as EarthQuake) have since moved on to working for the games industry. The same goes for World of Padman and Tremulous which are also available in standalone game form retiring from their q3 mod status.
OpenArena started when Q3 editing wasn't cool anymore and editing for HL2 (at least FIGURING OUT how to edit for that game since its tools sucked) and Doom 3 was the trend, it has long missed its talent opportunities (the only exception of such is jzero and multiplex's initial textures and models (ammo prism, grism, armors, weapon icons, shotgun/lightning) which have been in OA since forever) Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Proti on November 27, 2009, 05:08:42 AM ---PEACEFULLY CENSORED---
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on November 27, 2009, 08:06:43 AM Well, I won't join to the flame war started at the beginning of this page... simply I'll start to ignore comments and posts from such tards who enjoy saying "OA sucks period". As Udi -and in its moment, leilei- pointed out, there's a lot of people out there who don't play online for many reasons and still enjoy the game. Just because you hate space and fun maps doesn't mean that everyone hates (or should hate) them as well. Not everyone wants competitive play all the time, you know? It's a very single-and-narrow-minded way of thinking, plus a killing idea, to just focus on one part of the OA people, instead of most (or all) the others. All the developers out there want to spread their games' focus on many people, for good reasons. I fail to see why OA shouldn't. Hell, even Q3A itself has fun maps such as q3dm16-19, (with q3dm17 standing among them) q3tourney6, q3tourney5 and q3ctf4. And, to some extent, q3dm11 (the health and armor regeneration tube) and q3dm12. (The "secret" entrance to the Quad room, which was near to the Haste room, and that MH open area, very criticizeable in other maps, but since "it's an Id map" ::)) And you know what more? All of them (with the exception of q3tourney5 maybe) have found their way in one way or another onto Quake Live.
Oh, and I've forgot to say that there's already a comp-minded game out there. It's called Warsow. Going onto the map, I'll be doing lavactfxl with most comp play in mind. (Leaving some stuff like the BFG in the big lava pool, just I'll be sure to make it to not to interfere with the gameplay) And maybe less weapons and items. The original lavaarena and lavactfxl were very bloated with items and weapons (IMHO) and, in most cases, the placement part was very unthoughtful. I guess the layout will be different tho. I'm thinking on a U-shaped map. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Falkland on November 27, 2009, 09:04:29 AM Well, I won't join to the flame war started at the beginning of this page... Sure ... you are not joining the flame war, you are saying the wedsnday's peaceful Pope's Angelus pray. Anyway , TA is funny _ONLY_ on large or very large maps : iplaying on small maps is really frustrating , exactly what most of the players do not expect to find in a game ... check the original TA mpteam(1-8) maps (with the exclusion of mpteam6) and the mpterra(1-3) maps. The original Q3 CTF maps are all too small or boring : the best CTF maps are all 3rd part maps like the 3W series ( q3wcpxx ) Most of the time you build your judgement about a map only after playing with bots at level 1 or 2 , but you will find the limit of a map while playing with bots at higher levels ( possibly at nightmare level ) Suspended is a map without reference points , many of the times you spawn without realize if you are at the bottom floor or at the middle floor and you spend significant time ( in the order of some seconds ) to exactly know where you are and where you have to go. It's "funny" playing there only with bots at level 1 or 2 , but extremely frustrating at higher level or on a server with many players . The same for fan which has a non-existant gameplay and for czest1tourney in which most of the time you will be moving into the too small corridors or jumping over the jumpers here and there like a yoyo. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Falkland on November 27, 2009, 09:11:42 AM And kamikaze item? wow, i cant imagine that, but walls should absorb most of damage. The walls will not absorbe anything because of the splash damage bug. Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Udi on December 06, 2009, 06:36:26 PM NeonKnight, it seems that am_lavactf2_a2 and also the previous a1 overwrite some shader files, which cause some missing jumppad textures in czest1tourney, image attached. Could you please fix it?
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on December 06, 2009, 06:44:50 PM Did you've tested with a pure 0.8.5 version, plus the pk3?
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Someone_mad on August 15, 2010, 12:39:48 PM This is a good map, but I always forget myself in it... :-\
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: 2e2 on June 18, 2012, 05:01:41 PM where is the BFG in lavactfxl? I could only get those useless BFG ammo :)
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on June 18, 2012, 05:29:52 PM Hint: Use the battlesuit.
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Tiago on August 19, 2012, 01:38:53 PM This map Lava Arena will stay cool!
Title: Re: am_lavaarena & 2 CTF versions Post by: Neon_Knight on August 01, 2016, 10:24:24 PM I'm continuing the development in this topic.
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4883.0 |