OpenArena Message Boards

Dear developers and OA gladiators,


my clan and i play oa and q3a since the first release and
i'd like to discuss 2 things you should change in this game to improve gameplay and fun:

1) the /stats command, where you can check your accuracy statistics in the console. (this doesn't need to be explained anymore, it's already included in so many q3a mods ... you know what i mean!!!)

2) i regularly play the OA_CTF4ISH map (CTF gametype) on several servers and EVERY TIME the same problems come up:

     the bfg and railgun weapon in this map are the roots for every conflict between the players. people who use that weapons too much or even just use it, are decreasing the fun level of the whole game:

it's a circle:

player A takes railgun and starts camping or/and player A takes the bfg and starts maiming! so players B to Z start complaining. they first ask him to stop it, then they start to callvote a kick on that player ...most players don't know where you find the YES button :). so it goes on and on

.. and the point ist

the people waste more time on chatting, complaining and voting than playing that fucking map .....

and those 2 weapons are the roots for that issue since q3a ...

this map is very popular but rail- and bfg junkies  are spoiling that ..

and you can't stop them,  ... and if you try the same strategy, it's a desaster ... you can't enjoy it ...


so my suggestion is to replace those two weapons  ... you released 3 new weapons, take one of them, or replace it with an red/yellow armor ... i don't know, but a railgun and a bfg are real spoilers ...

i think it would be a good idea to replace those two weapons with the next update, by creating a OA_CTF4ISH clone version 2 or something like that, so that the people can decide what map to up on the server ... i really can imaging that a OA_CTF4ISH map without bfg and rail would kill every problem the people have to discuss EVERY TIME on EVERY DAY  ....


ok i'm finished, and i think that those two changes are not that much work to do. especially for professionals like you dear developers !!!


thank you for your attention, and i really do have to apologize for my english, i haven't used it for a long time ... :D

check our servers: ultraMaim.de

good bye

[uM]Cyberdemon

Go and callvote a different CTF map and you're done.
Open Arena offers more than oa_ctf4ish and oasago2.

where am i done? i want to play the space map, not another map... when you buy old bananas and ask the vendor: you can order some new ones? .. he won't anser: just buy some apples ... he should order fresh bananas if he want to be a good vendor!


the amount of players arguing and complaining sucks. there is more chatting than playing. and if you check the serverlists cosmo: the fact, that there are mostly sago and 4ish could mean that other maps just suck, because they don't provide that type of gameplay the players want. mostly the maps are too big or just boring, like those battlefield spam maps ... where 10 people spam with plasmas ... that is not dynamic ... sago and 4ish provide that dynamic gameplay, players can use to have fun for hours


that voting thing won't work, ... i've tried for 8 years ...i wouldn't start that topic if there is no other way ...


yeah there are enough maps, but the most are shitty, so shitty that you have to change to many things to improve them,

ctf4ish, ... you just have to replace two weapons with q3radiant and save to oa_ctf4ishv2 .. and put it in the mappool, so it's provided to reach every player that downloads the game.



the people rather disconnect than waiting till a vote becomes successfull,

even that bot-warning: "stop it or you will be kicked" isn't a solution, it doenst work as it would work without those two weapons.

i hope you rely on my experience.






it's just a test, you do that change: i think it's a work for 30 minutes with every other depending thing you have to do (readme etc) and you will see, the people provide the Version 2 of 4ish on their servers, rather than that satanic map that just brings hate to the people on that server and stops them to capture a flag. and the players will be thankfull !!! definately !!! hahahahhahaha


it just a suggestion to make the OA scene happier.

and people are just satisfied with that map until the campers and bfg suckers connect ... thats mostly to rush hour times like evening or late afternoon ...


reallity shows that this map is so popular (definately not because of the rail and bfg) that it's still on the servers, played by people, that hope not to see the next camper or bfg lamer spaming all the time.

most people even don't know how to reach the bfg, they just play the possibilities on the ground, not wanting to reach godlike bfg power in the skies ....and that makes the map worth playing it.


personally, i don't complain about the campers and bfg spammers. i just play my game, but it sucks not to kill 5 people, because they have to chat, ask, callvote things and have a eye on the console than on the game... you can't stop it completely, just by taking that guns out of that map.

you would do a big favor to the scene, especially because the scene only consists of FFA and CTF, and in the CTF section (mostly) only of sago and 4ish ...  there are no other possibilites, the popularity shows ... the people show...most of the other maps are bullshit (it's a fact - if you don't believe: watch the servers)


yes there are a few servers with other maps, but there are only beginners, testing the game, before they get on a sago or 4ish map the first time ... then they see the dynamic of that great maps (until the campers arrive and people jump up to the bfg because they are frustrated :D )


gn8

imo the bfg should be omitted. but the rail? that is the weapon that makes that map fun.

if you remove rail and bfg you have three weapons. you spawn with machinegun and shotgun and pickup the rocket launcher.
i don't see how any of the new weapons could replace the railgun and make the map better.

but i agree that the rail campers are boring. how about adding a trigger to the railgun so the platform flips when the rail is picked up? ;)

The boring point comes when people aim at you while you're not a particular threat nor in position to be railed, instead they cacacacamp and rail people randomly or worse, wait for their target to be in an easy-to-shoot position such as right after taking one of the bumpers.

I haven't played much with noghost, and haven't tried with this map, but it may be left as is if anti-camper mode was activated.

That said, I agree BFG is useless, but I don't see which weapon/item could come in place. A powerup maybe ? I don't have the list of items but that's an idea.

And oh, welcome on these forums Cyberdemon ;)

THIS FORUM NEEDS MORE CAPS

yeh, not even flipendo used CAPSLOCK MODE

The joys of open source is that if you think something can be improved you have the power & the resources to change it.

The map sources are located at: www.openarena.ws/svn

You'll need GtkRadiant to edit the maps, there is also a good tutorial in the wiki on how to set up GtkRadiant properly.

Enjoy. :)

here's a solution for the bfg. each time you pull the trigger there's a 25% risk of the gun exploding. killing anyone using it :D

ok people i see that i have to do it myself. ok now its gtkradiant, i used q3radiant years ago.

my suggestion is to put the railgun to the place where the bfg is, and to put the chaingun to the place where the railgun is.


if this doenst work (i will put the NEW 4ish map on the ultramaim.de page and on our server ULTRAMAIM RANGE) - especially the railgun thing - i'll replace the railgun with a personal teleporter  ...... so people who take the time on the jumppads to reach that position up in the sky may gain the powers of that useful item to save their guts before they touch the void :)

but nice to see you here caca und pulchr :) thank you for welcome reply :)

the ultramaim page should be done in about 3 weeks, so the new 4ish map will be uploaded then, too!


i hope you do some testing when it's done :)


i will definately waste my time on that server then to get some feedback ... our just in order to see if people still are more chatting than capturing those flags !!!



goood byeee

ah yeah, now this map thing is done ... but


and try to think about

1) that STATS-function with the accuracy percentage of each weapon of each payer

and additionally (i saw that in a q2 based game called "sauerbraten")

2) an ITEM (health/armor/powerup) timer on the left side of the screen ...


thats not that important - i try to remember and calculate with the standard "cg_drawtimer 1" - timer, when i play

but that STATS function really would be nice ...

hmm the trigger wouldnt stop the campers, they just would jump off to the flag platform and go on with random railing....


but you are right, the railgun is a nice weapon ... but it can be raped like a drug on that map ...


perhaps only one railgun in the center of the map where you find the bfg may change the situation a bit ... i will change it and see


but thank you for your feedback on that issue

here's another idea for the self-exploding bfg :D

each time the weapon fires a shot the guns heats up. if you fire single shots with some delay they weapon can take the heat (it cools off just enough). but if you hold the trigger down and shoot several times in a row the weapon overheats and explodes.

i would just love a bfg explosion :D

What about the Nailgun instead of BFG? :P
(Yeah, I'm a NailFan -?-)

I'd be okay for some tests of this map ;)
/me dreams about changing a weapon by another with a simple .cfg server side ...

Oh please let me record the sound for it :P

Alternatively, \seta disable_weapon_bfg "1".  (You could even take away the railgun... or force a machinegun arena.)

Same for our beloved prox mine launcher.


Maybe not sold on the camping and complaining and callvoting, but then I haven't been outside very much.  (Could say the same for strafejumping or the like.)

I hate it when voting is enabled.

Why?

Because noobs callvote when they don't like the map (go to another fucking server, you asshole) and people abuse it and votespam.

Didn't even know that one, it seems I should check better what our dear engine can do ;) Thanks.

ah cool, also didnt know that --- thats a solution :) but i would be sad, watching that lonely platform, strafing in the darkness, without a job !!! :D

you can replace items with noghost mod:
set replace_[item_type]_[item_name] [item_type]_[item_name]
   See the items.txt file that is in the configs directory of the NoGhost ip file.  It contains all the appropriate item names and item types required.  For instance, to replace the railgun with the rocket launcher in your arena, you'd type set replace_weapon_railgun weapon_rocketlauncher in your console..  Also for example, to replace the mega health with the quad damage, you'd type set replace_item_health_mega item_quad in your console.

i just found the oa_ctf4ish.map file few days ago and edited it. it's available on [ultraMaim.de]HOLYCRAP CTF server (online again: monday 15th dec). i replaced the railguns with plasmaguns and the bfg with a railgun. so you can still use the rail but it's harder to reach and only one :).
first i wanted to replace the railgun with a chaingun and wanted to put a personal teleporter to the opposite side of the new rail location on that moving platform, but i haven't found any entitie-entry in the list.


now that i'm able to do so, i want to make a second version of oa_ctf4ish including the chaingun changes. but i am not able to find the oa_ctf4ish.map file in the svn directory again :). i am not sure where i found it few days ago, but i am quite sure that it was openarena.ws/svn . nethertheless i can't find a .map file, only the .ass and .bsp files


has somebody any idea?

The entity is holdable_teleporter.

thanx!

and where in svn can i find the .map file of oa_ctf4ish. i was there but i can't see it anymore!

In the same place where the other .map files are: http://openarena.ws/svn/source/assets/maps
^^

And while you're at it, you may also consider this : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2519.0 ;)

ok good, thank you, i forgot if you wanted to put the RL lower or higher, so i wrote pulchr a private message :) he hasn't answered yet, but this doensnt matter now :)

hi, i answered several days ago. it is strange that you didn't get the message.

edit: btw, it was 16 units upwards that solved the problem.

ok ! i did so, but when i tested the map the megahealth didnt spawn, although i didnt touched it :)


i'll try to fix this problem before starting the server again :p

so i recommend to download that rocketlauncherheight-fixed oa_ctf4ishuM1 clone and to replace it with the first one ...

see you soon !!

If Mega should be on the floor, check that the Suspended flag isn't on. Also, you should put it a little bit more separated from the floor itself.

hmm the problem was also the gametype! if i start the map with FFA mode the mega health does not spawn, otherwise i do with CTF mode, the Megahealth spawns..


another issue: how do i set the gametype used for a map, so that the map is also available in the ingame OA map pool, so that it can be selected via menu -> MULTIPLAYER -> CREATE -> etc.


thank, you

and merry xmas folks

You should create an oa_ctf4ish.arena (or the name you like, but the recomendation is to have map name in order to not to screw up with other maps) under scripts folder with the following information:

* In fact, you can play your map in every gametype you want, but these gametypes are the ones in which your map will appear in Skirmish mode.

ah, thank you, wonderfull !!!

There is also this problem with bots support which doesn't workbecause of no aas file (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2630.msg20617#msg20617), but I don't know how you can fix it ;) (using correct build option ?)

ok guys, my work in the forge is finished and you may have a try on the new oa_ctf4ish variants @ [ULTRAMAIM.DE]VOIDLAIR Server - 78.47.72.12:27971 (http://dpmaster.deathmask.net/?game=openarena&server=78.47.72.12:27971)


there are 3 versions:

- every version includes only ONE railgun that's put there instead of the bfg, so the two teams have to struggle for it (for that mighty weapon)
- on the other side of that bfg-platform track is a holdable personal teleporter (thank you cacatoes for that great suggestion - it's real fun using it :)), which sometimes could save you from touching the void! (i always respawn in the air near megahealth and fall onto that lowest jumpad - i see that there aren't random spawn flags that could spoil the teleporter by spawning in the enemy's base for example)
- the height of the central rocketlauncher is changed (by 15 grid units) so you can reach it everytime you use one of the two jumppads. (thanks to pulchr)
- the railguns on the classic railgunplatforms are replaced by different weapons depending on mapversion:

oa_ctf4ishuM1: plasmagun (including a plasma cells pack and some machinegun bullets)

oa_ctf4ishuM2: chaingun (didn't added ammo for that gun, better try to get a new one when chaingun is empty - so you can spam less with that powerful machine)

oa_ctf4ishuM3: nailgun (thanks to Neon_Knight the nailfan)



the mapcycle on that server is:

oa_ctf4ishuM1
oa_ctf4ishuM2
oa_ctf4ishuM3


i've added the source .map file to the .pk3 and
included the .aas file -> botsupport does work!

have phun!

cya!

:D

PS: Could you build botpath files (a.k.a. AAS files) for your maps or you have changed some common texture?
EDIT: Forget about the former, I didn't saw the bottom lines. -.-

That or bring the Chain... gun.

you find the chaingun in oa_ctf4ishuM2 on each railbase

Yop,

I'll test these when I can, but these days I rather play standard ctf4ish, it's still nice even with the 2 railguns (depends against who you play ...).
Having that RL higher will save me some troubles, thanks ;)

I quickly tried them, I can't judge. I think plasma is a good idea, I'm not sure if minigun ammo is a good idea ; i'm no fan of chaingun/nailgun.

Personnal teleporter can be a good idea, the way we land with it is funny ;)

This map is funny, because we can play without exploiting it fully ; such as never taking some of the bumpers, never getting on moving platform ... so maybe a few items could change that a bit ;)

i didnt put chaingun/nailgun ammo to this map. 10 shots are enough for the nail and ammo for the chaingun would make it too powerful.

if you are out of ammo the map provides enough possibilities to get everywhere you want very quick. :) so just rejump to the chain/rail/nailgun when you are out of ammo .. or kill somebody who's hunting you with one :P



i put the railgun and the teleporter to that moving platform because the platform itself had no use to be in this map once before. except you wanted to reach bfg power!



but i'll try a 4th version with 2 rails and the teleporter instead of bfg :) coming soon.

Hey Cyber,

Why not make the railplatform the way pulchr suggested in the OTHER topic about ctf4ish??

He said; just change so that the platform is constructed by parallell bars - that way you can knock campers down by shooting rocket from below.

So that would look a little like this:

     Railgun
o o o o o o o o
Also the flagplatform is to big imo, it would be better if its more like q3ctf4 map
Almost cut it in half so its easier to kill campers with rockets (splash)

If this suggestion gets done il be happy to get this version on the new ctf-server (coming soon):D

I mean, changing weapens is fun and all but the map needs a railgun or more machinegun ammo:P
I thought it was basicly to avoid camping as much as possible.
Yes i love the ctf4 map (i learned to aim with rail on there)
Ok this is the last thing i say about ctf4ish ;)

i'm not actually sure my idea with the parallell bars works - i've tried something similar in a map i'm working on at the moment and it does not give the result i wanted.

i'm sceptical to decreasing the size of the base platform :(

there's a uM4 version available on the server.
just fixed rl height and replaced bfg by personal teleporter.

changing the platform won't stop people to camp :) -> there are still enough other platforms you can use to camp

in general:

i have not removed the railgun completely: it's still in the maps, a bit harder to reach and only one, but for those who can't live without it: jump to the rail and move back to the platform where you're normally used to get the rail. so you should feel welcome.


basically, i wanted to remove the bfg. the main spoiler. i admit that the railgun is necessary for this map and you cannot stop people camping as long as you reach out to the other base with the railgun. but to change that would change the map enormously.

i had a random idea so here it is.  since its accuracy drops at long range maybe some machine gun ammo would be useful?  it often saves a flag if we chase them with machine gun on that map but ammo runs out fast.  machine gun is pretty much the anti camper weapon on ctf4ish so it may help.

Do you remember the final map in Q3A? the one with a BFG platform and a switch to squish anyone who was standing there? Maybe something like that would help. Maybe even a switch in the platform: you land, you take the rail, and you have 5 secs delay till you get squished.

And no, ppl won't camp on onther platforms, if the rail ammo is decreased to, let's say 3, they'll only get 3 shots and run out of RG ammo...

yeah i agree the machine is very useful in this map, but i think you have to kill the flagcarrier with what you have. you got too much ammo, you dont have to care about your accuarcy. just stand(, zoom) and fire ... so this is a team game and you should combine the other machineguns in your team, and pay attention to the flagcarrier together. then you need no ammo. 3-4 people firing at somebody can be a fast end for him.


that trigger/button stuff is also a good idea, but gtk radiant was quite new to me and i spend a lot of time sitting in front of my pc trying to get used to this stuff :)

so replacing weapons is much easier to me than setting triggers on OnFire then, ... i even cannot image how i do that with gtk radiant.


so these versions are the first step to improvement.

but a map, as original as oa_ctf4ish would be the best. solving that railgun/bfg issue with fair maprelated possibilities.
i appreciate that and gonna care about it as soon as I find real time for it.



i just wonder why the one who made the remake of the q3a map didn't manage to build it like the final q3a one. providing more fairness to the players.

the official oa_ctf4ish mapconstructor also would have more skills and would know possibilies to convert those aspects into a new version of that map, next OA release, next version maybe !! :))) i do hope so, ... then  i dont have to do it :P




but in my opinion: i can live without a bfg in general, and even one railgun is totally satisfying me. i also do love railing. i dont have any problems getting to it when it's placed to the center. :)

I was wondering in these days (seriously) if those players who make suggestions to delete weapons from all OA maps (specially BFG, Nail, Mine and Chain) wanted maps with (for example) only Rail & Rocket... making maps for ONE kind of players would be very boring for the rest... I guess...

My point is... why not to make maps for ALL kind of players?

i see your point, but i didn't want to delete those items, just replace them. the amount of weapons is the same. you need a certain variety of weapons in a map to provide a common gameplay.

a bfg is not fitting everywhere. not in areas where you can spam all over the place.

but this map already exists. making this map for all kind of players is done by making other versions of this map so the people can decide what is more fun to them.

Well, oa_ctf4ish is, ATM, the only OA map which has BFG in it.
And I've seen some "put nail out of OA" comment there, not by you, but by other people.

And I don't forget all that whining about mines @ oasago2 in 0.8.0, again, not by you, but for lots of people.

What I wanted to say with my post is that things which are fun for some people aren't for others, and not all OA players have internet access or know about these forums or forums at all.

But, nevermind, I also remember that I've suggested to replace BFG with NG, but I didn't thought that the map was the only map with BFG until I downloaded all the sources and searched for it.

ok i see

yes putting the bfg out of the game, or any other weapon won't be nice. but the skillfull mappervolunteers could maybe create more nice gameplay focused maps with a bfg inside and manage it not to spoil the level.

I'm building a map which didn't make into 0.8.1, am_lavaarena (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2170.0), which has BFG inside a lavapool (in the CTF XL version) but maybe fromhell have forgotten about it or something else.
Anyways, I'm doing DM version with this in mind, after I finish it I'll make two CTF versions of it.

go forth and kick ass, soldier!!







there's a 5th version of oa_ctf4ish available on server mentioned above ([ULTRAMAIM.DE]VOIDLAIR)

it's same as oa_ctf4ish but you got an additional machinegun bullets pack and the railgun/bfg-ammo is limited to three, when you pick up the weapon.


so this may be the last one up to now.

but when i got more skilled in radiant, a last version uM6 will follow, based on last q3ctf4 version of q3. with anti-camp/anti-bfg -> "you get squashed"-brushes moving by onfiretriggers.

so

when it's up to me, you can close, declare to [solved] this topic :)



but there are still possible improvement suggestions!!!
muhahahahahah


muhahahahahahahahahahaha

ok forget about the uM5 version !!! i took it offline


need to take the server offline too =/,

but you can still download uM1-uM4 version at www.ultramaim.de


good bye