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OpenArena Contributions => Development => Topic started by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 04:02:19 am



Title: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 04:02:19 am
Well, with 0.8.1 and all of his maps and goodies, I've built an entire new SP with 7 thematical tiers, 6 new bots, and 5 new maps. ^^

This SP has 7 tiers, 6 with 4 maps, and the final battle in q3dm6ishv3. You must download required files to play the entire SP. The only thing is that Tier 7 doesn't show, maybe because of the only map it has. (q3dm6ishv3)

AI of the 6 bosses will be redone to ensure some good challenges, and there should be a new model for the final boss. I think I will start a contest, if fromhell allows me to do it. :P

Part of the story is in the source code, with the background of the characters. The other part (+bios and maps) is in progress. Also in progress is the new AI files for bosses and some of the bots. (New + some old)

Let the Tournament... begin!!! ^^

EDIT: I'll be posting links to files and maps required for this SP.
You can find the plan for this SP here: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18975#msg18975
Also, here you can find the characters' bios: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18981#msg18981

EDIT2: Thanks to Graion Dilach for making q3dm6ish appear in T7. ^^

Maps required for this SP: Check the plan (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18975#msg18975)

EDIT3: Cosmo has released a version of the SP. This will be the current one. Test it (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg19853#msg19853) please. :)

EDIT4: The most newer version of the SP comes with the unofficial patches. ATM I won't put them in the forum, but if you want to take a look, in my signature is my blog. :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 03, 2008, 09:47:05 am
You could have started with this a bit earlier to influence me in editing the singleplayer stuff. ;)
Why not working together for 0.82 on this?

I did a short overview of the 0.81 bots and their skills.
http://mapforce.blogspot.com/2008/11/botskills-anyone.html (http://mapforce.blogspot.com/2008/11/botskills-anyone.html)

I like the idea of bosses (as Q3 had) and tried to set up maps with only 2 bots at least (though no real tourney feeling still). OA lacks 1on1 maps. We should change this.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 12:18:22 pm
Lazyness and other things. :P

It could be great. ^^

You forgot the fact that some bots share the same file if you take a look at the source in the PK3. :P
(File scripts/bots.txt)

Maybe givin' all the bots an own personality and background? I have attached Assassin's AI files. ATM I only have his AI file, with custom chat messages and weapon preferences. And he's really sick. ;D

There are various maps for 1on1 IMHO, you can take a look at for example oa_rpg3dm2, oa_dm1, ce1m7 (though isn't strictly a 1on1 map) or am_galmevish. :P

Also I was thinking on cutscenes between tiers, but I think it's very hard to do, no?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 03, 2008, 01:50:11 pm
Yep, we should go for an own personality.

Cutscenes are video sequences that could be rendered with blender. We can take the playermodels and have some camera zooming on them... a better idea: Gameplayvideos of the bots in the maps of the selected tier. Recording them as spectator (we don't need random jerky movement of bots but human players doing fancy moves just using the responding model)

Announcer voices for every bot are required as well.

So let's create a list of maps with features and what kind of bots could fit there.

I'd prefer oa_dm4 over oa_dm1 as a tourney map. I'm unsure about ce1m7 but I guess we can go with it. am_galmevish is great but the nailgun kills it completely. This weapon is way too unbalanced to be in a 1on1 map. slimefac is 1on1 too. :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 02:18:33 pm
This is my planning of the SP (which is in the file)

MapMap NameBotsFraglimitTimelimit
oa_rpg3dm2Trial By ErrorAyumi, Jenna1510
oa_minia (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2808.0)Mini ArenaTony, Penguin1510
pul1duel1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3088.0)Five Steps AheadAyumi, Jenna, Tony, Penguin2010
slimefac (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1313.0)Slime FacilityAssassin1510
-----------------------------
oa_dm3 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=860.0)The Abandoned BaseBeret, Soldier, Sergei, Skelebot2010
am_lavaarena (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2170.0)Lava ArenaBeret, Soldier1510
am_underworks (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2860.0)Under WorkingSergei, Skelebot1510
blitzkrieg3 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1809.25)Blitzkrieg SectorMetalBot1510
-----------------------------
am_spacecont (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3232.0)Contact in SpaceSarge, Grism2010
suspended (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=586.0)SuspendedS_Marine, Grunt2010
oa_shine (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=613.0)ShineSarge, Grism, S_Marine, Grunt2515
czest1tourney (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=553.0)The Space SpireAngela1510
-----------------------------
oa_shouse (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1094.0)Strange HouseMajor, Merman, Liz, Gargoyle2515
czest1dm (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=286.0)MonasteryMajor, Merman2010
dm6ish (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1995.0)The Dark ZoneLiz, Gargoyle2010
aggressor (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=925.0)AggressorDargoth2010
-----------------------------
oa_dm5 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2864.0)The CisternNeko, Sorceress2515
oa_dm7Upper CisternsBlackWidow, EvilEmpress2515
oa_koth1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1438.0)RepulsionNeko, Sorceress, BlackWidow, EvilEmpress3015
dm4ish (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3154.0)Troubled WatersArachna2015
-----------------------------
oa_koth2 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2433.0)Floating SpireDark, Tanisha, Rai, Angelyss3015
kaos2Ka's Dark, Tanisha2515
oa_dm1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1802.0)The Place of Two DeathsRai, Angelyss2515
am_galmevish2 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2298.0)Galmevish YardsKyonshi2015

Final map: On hold. There's no model (nor name!!!) made for the Final boss, and q3dm6ish won't be included in the game. :/

Note on how I've chosen maps based on its theme. Maybe Q1 maps and some others will require some retexturization in order to go well.

EDIT: I'm thinking that slimefac and schism_b2 could be retexturized with the style of oa_dm3 and replace oa_shine.

EDIT: More changes, I'll wait until most of the maded maps were committed to the game before rounding the SP.

EDIT: Changes, changes and more changes.

With the cutscenes, I was thinking them more in order to make a story than only show. This is/was my idea for them:
- Intro movie: the player being selected by Kyonshi for his father's Tournament, being teleported like Sarge does on Q3A's intro movie.
- After Tier 1: After defeating Assassin, the player manages to find an escape route at the Slimefac, which is a pod like GDF soldiers have in Q2/Q4. He ends in The Abandoned Base, where he meets with Soldier and Beret who are there in a recognition mission or something like that, and Sergei, who is trying his new killerbot.
- After Tier 2: After destroying MetalBot, the player finds a Jumpgate at the facility, which kicks the player soooooooooooo long, that he ends in a strange platform, where Sarge and Grism are awaiting for him in a non-friendly way.
- After Tier 3: With Angela resting in a corner of the Spire, it falls into the Sago planet, in a dangerous area. Major finds the player killed Angela, and try to avenge her, but they're not alone as well.
- After Tier 4: Dargoth's head falls from the 3rd. floor and crashes. One of the portals change it's colour, and the player ends in the sewers, where Neko and Sorceress will be waiting for him. Of course, in a not-friendly way. ^^ At this moment, Kyonshi watches the player's progress while they send more warriors to stop him from reaching the Fortress.
- After Tier 5: Arachna rests in pieces in a corner of the castle, and the player exits the level. When the doors closes, the player must find an exit way. He ends at the Floating Spire, where Tanisha and Dark are waiting for him, but without any good purposes. ;D
- After Tier 6: <InsertBossNameHere> is fueled by revenge after the player killed his daughter Kyonshi, and he personally teleports the player to the center area of his castle to give the player a definitive rest, once and for all...

It's very UT3ish... lol...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 03, 2008, 03:17:47 pm
Wow,
you did already some good work on that.

schism_b2 should be retextured as it's a nice map. It's going to be a hard job to apply oa_dm3 textures on slimefac as you lose the plain and simple feeling and don't have well fitting textures.

I don't feel well about ctf maps in FFA and Tourney gametypes as this requires a different weapon placement to be balanced. Mapsize is another issue. I can imagine to insert blocking doors for FFA/Singleplayer gametypes in ctf_gate1 to block the blue area so the match will only occur in the red area. On the other hand it's still a CTF map. I can imagine to map another industrial themed FFA map.

We can have a starting map to introduce the 'story' fighting some kind of intruder at the end of the map.
We need several speakers that will give the bots voices during cutscenes and I hardly can imagine the whole thing not being embarrassing. oO


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 03:41:06 pm
Like a q3dm0ish?
It's a good idea, and OA definitively needs one of these, at least as the beginner's map.

As everything, theorically all is great, but in the practice could be a pain in the ass. U_U

Some character stories, from the source.

Angela is a Space Engineer who was at charge on the Czest Spire Space Satellite. She was chosen for the OpenArena Tournament because of her smartness, her acrobatics (she likes to jump with weapons, but also she has a high chance of commiting suicide) and her high sense of prediction. Her combat style is marked by her preference on spammy weapons like Rocket Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Plasma Gun and BFG10K.

Angelyss is one of the Four Angels of Gandoria, who are at guard in <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress on Sago. Also, they're fighting in the OpenArena Tournament for their freedom under word of his Master. She represents the power of Fire.

Arachna and her evil twin sister BlackWide are at charge on <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress at Sago. She's defending the once sacred Cheethon's House after Cheethon's death on the Slipgate Wars. She likes instant hit weapons, like Railgun, Chaingun and Machinegun, and is very aggresive.

Assassin is a murderer who was chosen by <insert_boss_name_here> as one of Kyonshi's main personal choices for the OpenArena Tournament. His murdering skills (marked by his sigilous victim killings and his preference on short-range/meleé weapons like the Gauntlet, the Nailgun and the Shotgun) and accuracy are legendary, (specially when he's using the Railgun) but sometimes he can't finish his victim, mainly due to his lack of acrobacy and his overconfidence, whose leaded him to suicide sometimes.

Ayumi is a fierce japanese skate teenager who was chosen by Kyonshi for the OpenArena Tournament for her brutality after murdering two man who wanted to rape his friend Jenna.

Beret is the nickname of Andrew Jones, an USA Lieutenant who was the best shooter in his category. He was chosen by Kyonshi for the OpenArena tournament after surviving a war long time ago.

BlackWide and her twin sister Arachna are at charge of <insert_boss_name_here>'s Castle on Sago.

Dark is one of the Four Angels of Gandoria, who are at guard in <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress on Sago. Also, they're fighting in the OpenArena Tournament for their freedom under word of his Master. She represents the power of Wind.

Dargoth is the main Gargoyle Guard of the Dark Castle zone. Although he has done its way due to bad actions (for example, betraying his friend Gargoyle, which ended defending the near of the castle) he's now a <insert_boss_name_here>'s trusty guard. He likes spammy weapons like Rocket Launcher, Prox Launcher and Plasma Gun, he's very aggressive, has more acrobacy skills than Gargoyle, has some tendency to suicide, but he knows what's happening around him.

Empress is from the planet Alpha 9, an old planet whose most smart habitants are combining magic and science with experimental purposes and the searching, by <insert_boss_name_here>'s order, of the formula to achieve the Eternity. She has average accuracy, despite his preference on instant hit weapons like Railgun and Lightning Gun, is very silent and acrobatic, although she doesn't like weapon jumpings, she tries not to commit suicide,

Gargoyle was one of <insert_boss_name_here>'s tower guards at the <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress on Sago. Once a <insert_boss_name_here>'s trusty guard, he was betrayed by his fellow friend Dargoth, and now he defends the Dark Castle sector. He likes heavy weapons like Rocket Launcher and Chaingun, instant hit weapons like the Railgun, and chemical weapons like the Plasma Gun; is very aggressive, doesn't commit suicide very often, and he's smart, but he lacks of acrobacy.

Grism is a Space Marine who participated in the Earth Defense Forces before being chosen by Kyonshi for the OpenArena Tournament.

Grunt is a retired Space Marine who has battled in more wars than any other Tournament warrior. But isn't only his experience the reason of his choosing for his participation in the Tournament, also his extense knowledge across the space and his determination and own strong which led him to the survival of those many battles, and more for coming...

Both Jenna and her long-time friend Ayumi were choosen for fighting in the Tournament. Altough she lacks of battle skills, she learns faster and knows how to blow her opponents in the Arena.

Kyonshi is <insert_boss_name_here>'s daughter and the main chooser of fighters for his daddy's OpenArena Tournament. Don't let her beauty fools you, she's most deadly than any opponent you'll be fighting... except for his own father. She likes instant hit weapons like the Railgun, the Chaingun, the Machinegun and the Lightning Gun, is very silent, acrobatic, almost lacks of suicidal tendencies and is very smart.

Liz has made it's way into the Tournament after collecting treasures for a hunting contest long time ago. He's now from Gandoria, the same place as the Five Angels, and his new job is to defend the Dark Castle zone in the planet of Sago.

Major is a veteran space pilot who was lost at planet Sago. Her ship has fallen into the Dark Castle zone with her tripulation, and she was trying to communicate with her collegues at Czest Space Station, without any good result.

Merman was part of an experiment in the Abandoned Base long ago. The scientists who give him life died in an accident in this zone where everything blowed up. He's now serving Timaster for testing newcomers to the Tournament. He likes heavy weapons, like Rocket Launcher, Proxy Launcher and Grenade Launcher, despite his high accuracy with the Railgun. He's very aggressive, acrobatic, and smart, but has a high tendency to commit suicide.

MetalBot is a titanium skeleton bot programmed for destruction. It's said to be the skeleton prototype for the Automatons who are fighting in another Tournament. He was programmed by Sergei, and dislikes almost all the other humans, with the exception of its creator.

Neko is one of the few remaining Sago's Catty natives of her tribe. Her lands were disposed in favor of <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress. Now she is seeking revenge for all her fallen comrades, friends and family.

Penguin is the example on what happens if you are on the wrong place at the wrong time. He was in a Linux conference before being chosen by mistake by one of Kyonshi's personal assistants. Now he fights for his life and own freedom.

Rai is one of the Four Angels of Gandoria, who are at guard in <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress on Sago. Also, they're fighting in the OpenArena Tournament for their freedom under word of his Master. She represents the power of Water.

A MIT engineer at 27, Sergei is a robot programmer which also enjoys hunting. He was chosen, along with its two creations (Skelebot & MetalBot) to fight in the Tournament.

Skelebot is the B-class robot prototype made by Sergei. It doesn't mean that unlike its A-class counterpart MetalBot it can't do any damage. He can kick a lot of asses as well.

Soldier is a veteran Earth warrior from the USA and EDF forces, who integrated all the same squads as his long-time collegue Beret, obtaining in every squad at least one medal. He has very high accuracy, despite his preference for heavy artillery like Prox Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Rocket Launcher and Chaingun, which he likes because of his weapon jumping liking; is very aggressive and smart, but has a very high tendency to commit suicide.

Sorceress is from the same planet as his evil sister Empress, although she likes chemical weapons like Plasma Gun, Lightning Gun, BFG10K and Railgun. She's very acrobatic, has average aggresiveness and silentism, but has a very high tendency to commit suicide and she isn't very aware on what happens around her.

Tanisha is one of the Four Angels of Gandoria, who are at guard in <insert_boss_name_here>'s Fortress on Sago. Also, they're fighting in the OpenArena Tournament for their freedom under word of his Master. She represents the power of Earth.

<insert_boss_name_here> is the Time and Space Master, and the mastermind behind the OpenArena Tournament. Not so much is known of him, and a lot of people thinks he's just a myth or legend, but the OAT veterans don't say the same. He has mastered every weapon under usage in the Tournament, (although his favourite ones are the Railgun and the Rocket Launcher) goes directly against his enemy, has supreme acrobacy skills and smartness, and he hasn't almost chances to commit suicide.

Once an illegal weapon seller, Tony's company provides some of his new weapon models to the OpenArena Tournament. He's receiving feedback from all the competitors, in order to seek and repair new issues and to make improvements on the current OAT's arsenal. He's also playing in the Tournament, since he was a long-time soldier before finding the pleasure in his "dirty" new job.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on November 03, 2008, 04:04:04 pm
We need several speakers that will give the bots voices during cutscenes and I hardly can imagine the whole thing not being embarrassing. oO
hehe, i'd then have to make mouths for some of them and handle the cutscene .blend files and learn how to do effects


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 03, 2008, 04:10:18 pm
Or the cutscenes were taken in a way where we don't show the faces... ;) everybody shows his back.
This is a great idea, if anything I could help you, just call. (except mapmaking/modifying...)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 03, 2008, 09:46:48 pm
It's going to be a hard job to apply oa_dm3 textures on slimefac as you lose the plain and simple feeling and don't have well fitting textures.
Not so much, oa_dm3 has a factorish style. Also, replacing red slime in the map with green slime could work.

I've uploaded a new version of q3dm6ish (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2425.msg18985#msg18985), and my question thread about suction (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2424.0) still got no answer at all. :/


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 04, 2008, 04:02:49 am
Being a killjoy I'd say this is going to be a lot of work and we should keep the cutscenes at minimal effort showing the bot models running through a map doing some cool movement or fragging somebody (maybe a failed contestant). A narrator could say a few lines.
These cutscenes shouldn't be much longer than they were in Q3 as it blows the pk3 filesize. It's still a shooter and no adventure. Remember Mortal Kombat and Max Payne don't have such cutscenes and are reduced to minimal story. (Okay, the latter one had comics but it's low effort compared to rendered 3D stuff with lips in sync to the words.)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on November 04, 2008, 04:29:04 am
maybe some cheesy 'tier' animations of the boss bringing a trophy to your ready room or something?

BTW, no q3 bot names, so no Daemia or uriel, etc. Maybe Dark should deliver the trophy in a 'special' way before the final tier.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 04, 2008, 04:36:57 am
Maybe Kyonshi, and all of the bosses shouldn't die, but guide into new maps?
This will be an 180º turn to the story. :/

I've included them for compatibility issues, but well, I've had to find some new names.

Other things to do:
- Retexturize Schism_b2 (oa_dm3 style) and include it in T2 in place of Shine.
- Use Shine in T3 instead of Suction. (New space skybox, and implement in the four T3 maps?)
- Rename bots Daemia and Uriel.

EDIT: I've updated sp sources, now schism_b3 is instead of shine in T2 and shine is instead of suction. Tonight I'll be retexturizing schism_b2.

EDIT2: Names of Daemia and Uriel changed to Angela and Darkgos. (I'm not so much convinced with the last one. -.-)

EDIT3: Re-uploaded code. I forgot to change arenas.txt to reflect changes.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 05, 2008, 06:40:19 pm
I've seen a map in the SVN Commits, boczeq's blitzkrieg, it uses TRaK's textures, so I'm seeing how these can be replaced. It's a very good map IMHO, an 1on1 map. It can fit very well with Tier2, and can serve as replacement for slimefac.
Anyways, I'd like to retexturize Schism-b2 also, but I'm in problems at my house, so I can't use OpenArena as much as I wish. :/
I'm seeing what can I do.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: TRaK. on November 05, 2008, 11:51:49 pm
If you intend to recompile schism, my compile was -light -fast -patchshadows -samples 3 -samplesize 4, and also maybe some -bounce and -gamma, don't remember.
Same for q3dm6ish iirc.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 06, 2008, 02:24:32 pm
Great. ^^ I'll take in count (I don't know what's the true translation of "Lo voy a tener en cuenta" -.- my english sucks so bad U_U)
New version of blitzkrieg (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1809.msg19040#msg19040), plus updated SP with this map in place of slimefac.
Schism_b3 will be in place of oa_shine, with the oa_dm3 look for Tier 2, and also oa_shine will replace suction_v2 on Tier 3. ^^
With all of this, and the finished (not by now) version of q3dm6ish, mapping for SP is done.

Also, I think Darkgos is a crappy name for former Uriel -.- but unfortunately I can't think on a better name for him. :/
Which name you suggest for gargoyle/stone?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: andrewj on November 06, 2008, 07:11:59 pm
Great. ^^ I'll take in count (I don't know what's the true translation of "Lo voy a tener en cuenta" -.- my english sucks so bad U_U)
bear it in mind

Quote
Also, I think Darkgos is a crappy name for former Uriel -.- but unfortunately I can't think on a better name for him. :/
Darrgos
Darghos
Dargnos
Dargoth
Darrgoth
Dargmon
Dargamon


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Cacatoes on November 07, 2008, 05:35:40 am
Cacagoth
Cacaprout
Cacagoyle
Cacarbon
Cacaaaaaargh
Cacacacacaca
...

->[]


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 07, 2008, 09:59:00 am
There are still CTF maps in Tier1 and 2 as boss stages. Why not replacing ctf_gate1 with slimefac?
I'm looking forward to see your first release. Did you do a complete rewrite of the bot character files? If not we could do this together after your inital release.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 07, 2008, 04:05:50 pm
Bad news. :/

I've come to conclusion that retexturing schism_b3 will be very hard. Sad, because I loved this map in 0.8.0, and I wanted to include this map in the SP, but there's a lot of shapes to work for, (I mean, not only the map itself, but the details also) and I guess that giving the oa_dm3 look will make it look very crappy. :/

Also, I thought to include another map of mine in T2 until I (or someone, if he/she likes to do it, I have the caulked map with few textures already applied) finish schism_b3 retexturizing: am_lavaarena (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2170.0).

Also, I have made some changes to T4 and T6 in an attempt to keep them balanced.

@andrewj: I like Dargoth, but it doesn't need to be equal to Darkgos. But I'll take that name.

@Cacatoes: lol.

@Cosmo: oa_spirit was included in tiers before 0.8.1 because of it's catalog as tourney map. And I think ctf_gate1 will be good in that way, 1on1 maps don't need to be so big, but don't necessarily be so small. At least, your map isn't big as hell, or at least I feel it that way.

If you like to do it, then you can do some of the work, just look at the stories of characters on page 1. Also, I have some ideas on some character's behavior, weapon preferences and chat:

- Assassin's being a murderer who likes Gauntlet and sniper/short range weapons -my first thought was of him being a terrorist, but I dropped this idea-
- Angela being a space engineer who likes chemical weapons
- S_Marine, Grism and Grunt being Space Marines liking artillery
- Gargoyle and Dargoth being gothic and liking heavy artillery
- Kyonshi being the sub-boss, chooser of fighters for his daddy's Tournament and liking long-range weapons
- Dark, Angelyss, Nekoyss, Rai and Tanisha being Angels of Death liking different weapons
- Etc etc

EDIT: Updated SP, it's now playable, but the intention of inclusion of schism_b2 into T2 remains intact. Cosmo, you should look at the source in the file at first post if you want to do some work. Choose your bots, and I'll take part of the others. And maybe you'd like to check the story post to see some things to give inspiration. ;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 08, 2008, 09:58:07 am
Well, by now, and until the retexturization of schism_b2 to be included in place of am_lavaarena, mapping is done.
I've updated links on first post, and also uploaded a new version (I hope this will be the last before the final one) of the SP.

I still can't make q3dm6ish appear alone in Tier 7. :/


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 08, 2008, 10:36:41 am
I checked the arenas.txt in Quake III and I found this:

Code:
{
map "q3tourney6"
bots "xaero"
longname "The Very End Of You"
special "Final"
fraglimit 10
type "single ffa tourney"
}

Maybe q3dm6ishv3 need that "special" tag, too?

EDIT: Sorry, Armageddon_Man I just can't wait to your respond, I decided to try it myself... and yes, that works! Here you are...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 08, 2008, 11:09:44 am
Ouch, I didn't know about the Special line. :/
Thanks Graion. ^^


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on November 08, 2008, 11:17:01 am
My pleasure. I can't modelling/texturing/programming, so I'm happy now that I could help to this game.
Oh, and the intro map will need the
Code:
special "Training"
tag. ;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 15, 2008, 08:25:06 am
I've updated the plan (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg18975#msg18975) post with frag and time limits. Maybe I've assigned very big limits to them. :/



Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Udi on November 20, 2008, 10:32:06 am
Where's Tony? If a gangster doesn't fit into the storyline, than please make a skinny, old, crazy man, with a cylinder and tuxedo :).

Edit: I see him on oa_minia, but his personal story is not there.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 20, 2008, 10:44:30 am
Yes, Tony is on tier 1.
Maybe I will think on him the same think I though on Penguin: both have been chosen for mistake for the OAT, and now they're fighting for their lifes. :P
Or... maybe he works for a powerful weaponry organization, and he was chosen because some of his products are in use in the OAT, and he's trying them. :P


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 21, 2008, 03:35:25 am
Maybe Penguin and Tony could be used for comic relief?  (If there is a place for such thing)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 21, 2008, 03:52:07 pm
Comic relief? What do you mean for it?
(Seriously, I don't understand)

EDIT: I've found that the storyline I thought doesn't deserve the "Tournament" word in the title, because it isn't strictly a Tournament actually. :/ But I can't think on a better title for it (OpenArena Adventure? It sucks and doesn't matches with the game -.-; OpenArena Mission? It sucks too; I can't think on a title for it -.-)
Or maybe... according on what fromhell described in page 1 as giving a trophy, maybe those trophies can be parts of a major rune, something like Q1's runes which allows you to fight against Shub-Niggurath, and maybe three of them dispersed, one in an abandoned base, the other in some place in T1, the other in the Czest Space station, and the other three are in the same place where Tiers 4 to 7 have place, one for tier. Every boss you defeat gives you some piece of the entire rune. And when you combine the 6 runes, you are teleported to fight against the final boss.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: chaoticsoldier on November 21, 2008, 07:27:28 pm
Comic relief? What do you mean for it?
(Seriously, I don't understand)

From the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_relief):
Quote
Comic relief is the inclusion of a humorous character, scene or witty dialogue in an otherwise serious work


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: PsYthe on November 22, 2008, 08:47:32 am
I consider Penguin serious. He's a psychopath on a rampage for working in some chicken restaurant into his 30s.


Title: Problem with arenas.txt and bots.txt
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 26, 2008, 09:10:06 am
Well, there's a problem: arenas.txt and bots.txt shouldn't be > 8192 bytes in size because the game can't count/handle them, and this means I had to cut comments, but also there's the risk that not all maps in OA can be included, so my solution was to create two files: morearenas.arena and morebots.bot to include maps and bots which aren't on the SP. But... that means the maps in morearenas.arena and morebots.bot will be mixed with non-official ones, instead of being putted before the non-official ones.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 26, 2008, 04:29:12 pm
I'm nearly done with bot-editing so I'm into serious tier testing.
What I found so far: oa_dm3, czest1dm, dm6ish are too huge for just 2 bots. Minimum is 4.
I still dont feel well with CTF maps in singleplayer.
Fraglimit shall never exceed 30. Most maps go fine with 20-25. If it's more than 30 it's going to be a pain and it starts do be boring. As Q3 singleplayer had no timelimit I removed this from the arenas file too.

Bots will behave different and will be easier now.
I'm going to post a new singleplayer.pk3 when I finished this. I guess we need more testing later on. A mother-tongue English speaker should think about better chat comments for bots.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 26, 2008, 09:18:42 pm
Yes... I thought there was too high counts, specially on higher tiers. But there should be another way to differentiate tiers apart from maps. :P
I thought these 4 matches against Angelyss, Rai, Tanisha, Nekoyss and Dark could make T6 the "endurance tier". :P
But yes, these fraglimits are too much high. :/

Well, instead of dm6ish we can use the common oa_dm6. Which map you suggest to replace oa_dm3 and czest1dm?

And yes, I agree totally with the bot chat.

EDIT: I've added Tony's bio to the Bio list. What do you think about it? :P


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on November 28, 2008, 07:33:33 am
Tony's bio is fine. It has to be added to his chat file.

I don't have a suggestion for smaller ffa maps as shism is not available yet.

To break the principle: What about fighting in tier 5 / map 3 against the former 4 bosses before battling Arachna? Makes sense as Nekoyss, Sorceress, and BlackWidow can be foes in the two remaining maps of tier 5.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 28, 2008, 11:43:30 am
Well, the idea with bosses, according to what I've pointed above (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg19364#msg19364), is that you fight against them, they give you a part of the big rune, and you continue to search the other parts, meaning the bosses will stay in their places.

Also, I've seen a concept (http://openarena.ws/concepts/chars/fish.png) of an Orbbish character, in the Wiki, which can fit in Tier 1, and can make Tony move on to T2, Assassin to T4, and Liz to T5 to replace Nekoyss there.

(An idiot hacked the wiki cussing Dash9, but I've reversed some of the changes.)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on November 28, 2008, 11:45:49 am
That Orbbish character in the picture was actually modeled, textured and animated last year, but it was never committed. it should be noted that the fish is much much too similar to the copyrighted character from the anime Goldfish Warning!!!.

I think an evil octopus could be a better alternative


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Tymon on November 29, 2008, 03:17:48 pm
pretty cool ;)

it would be good if we had cut scenes after every tier and since their are a LOT of maps around I think we can add a few more tiers(with more then 1 boss)

p.s I'm more then happy to write a full bio and story line for a character or 2 


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 29, 2008, 04:05:44 pm
A more longer game isn't much a good idea. It means to make more characters to fit in it, and since arenas.txt and bots.txt has a maximum size of 8kb in order to be loaded, (so I don't know where new maps and bots can enter, since morearenas.arena and morebots.bot doesn't make maps/bots in those files appear before the non-official ones) I don't think I/we can make another tier for it. :/

Also, the story is already maded, there're few bots who need a bio, and some more to get improved ones.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on December 03, 2008, 10:40:10 am
Test Release of new SP. (pk3 attached)
Many edited bots in there.

  • chat files need to be improved so far
  • often it's just one or two playermodel per tier (boring!)
  • testing is required
  • in my oppinion quality goes down in the course of play (progress of tiers)
  • especially last bossfight (not TiMaster) is boring as hell
  • CTF maps are no fun in FFA

Have fun. :)



Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 03, 2008, 01:41:05 pm
Well, OA itself hasn't so much models and skins to choose. Remember that some bots have been maded from skins of other models:
- Metalbot (Skelebot)
- Angela (Major)
- Dargoth (Gargoyle)
- Jenna (Ayumi, Jenna itself had a skin but it was retired)
- Soldier (Beret)
- BlackWide (Arachna)
- Empress (Sorceress)
- TiMaster (Who hasn't a skin/model, but I imagine him as being a male, bigger and oldie version of Kyonshi :P)

All of them can have a new model. Sadly, I lack of modelling skill.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on December 03, 2008, 04:02:36 pm
I just wanted to say that in most tiers there are two bots with the same model but different skin. It would have been better to mix it more so you have 4 different models each tier. eg putting Soldier in a different tier than Beret. Same goes for S_Marine, Jenna, Skelebot.

:)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 03, 2008, 04:06:21 pm
Well... all was thought (or at least, tried) to match tier themes. I thought that campaign as a story itself, hence why I think "Tournament" was unnecesary in the title's campaign.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on December 04, 2008, 03:17:11 am
Hey Armageddon_Man,

it matches fine and we've got an advantage on the performance side. Let's keep it the way it is for now. Maybe the next upcoming male playermodel could sample TiMaster (although a better name is needed).


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 04, 2008, 04:04:03 am
Yes... I begun to hate that name, but I don't want to call him "Nostradamus". :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on December 04, 2008, 01:39:31 pm
Some ideas:

Cosmogeddon
Timirugi
Stratus
Dorrovan
Ninmannus
Areler
Rulerena
Epikiller
Ultirena

I think the Cosmogeddon name must be used, even on a smaller character.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Ferk on December 05, 2008, 05:51:53 am
Btw.. is TiMaster also a jiang-shi like Kyonshi? ...a chinese hopping corpse?
Or is he a necromancer?

I see him more as a necromancer, and then Kyonshi as the resurrected body of his past daughter/girlfriend. He couldn't stand seeing her die and he became insane.. he researched and discovered arcane old powers and secrets ..and then he managed to bring her back to life as an undead. But something was not so right... her girl had become a blood-sucking creature. But yet he celebrated it and his insanity grow even bigger. He finally turned into a crazy maniac, he kept researching and learning ancient knowledge that erased the last trace of humanity that he could have kept. As the centuries passed by, defying death, his mind and body got rotten. It's not clear if he's human anymore or probably something else....

In order to keep his control over death he needs to absorb the lifeforce from the souls of the violently killed ones. This is the reason why, once each 150 years when the stars are right, he brings the most powerful and lively fighters from every corner of the world to fight each other in a tournament until all of them die. He promises gold and power for the winner... but he has some servants to finish the work that won't let anyone win. The true hidden purpose of this tournament is to take away the young and strong spirit of the fighters, the most delicious souls.

Maybe call him.. Lord Liche ..or something like that


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Ferk on December 05, 2008, 06:51:25 am
Maybe looking something like this (http://www.freewebs.com/king-leviathan/Necromancer1.jpg), with the gun instead of the stick. And with sharp stuff in the shoulders like this (http://www.danscottart.com/Images/ancient.jpg). Maybe with a crown made with the skull of a GNU with big horns :P (here a drawing (http://images.elfwood.com/art/f/o/forsen/necromancer.jpg) of a necromancer with a skull on the head.. but that's covering his face)

The model could maybe have a skin for insane necromancer and a skin for shaman protector of nature.

Just for some ideas.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Ferk on December 05, 2008, 06:54:03 am
agh.. sorry.... wrong button again -_-


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Ferk on December 05, 2008, 07:35:10 am
-_- ...... again
how can I delete this wrong messages?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 05, 2008, 07:22:06 pm
Ferk... you hit in the nail. ^^ I like that story idea. That big text can serve as an intro, and a reducted version of it as his Bio.

Some ideas:

Cosmogeddon
Timirugi
Stratus
Dorrovan
Ninmannus
Areler
Rulerena
Epikiller
Ultirena

I think the Cosmogeddon name must be used, even on a smaller character.
The truth is that... Cosmogeddon is the fusion of me and cosmo. :D ;D

I thought on Cosmaster, but I don't know...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on December 06, 2008, 01:45:41 pm
The truth is that... Cosmogeddon is the fusion of me and cosmo. :D ;D

That's why it must be used. ;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 07, 2008, 07:42:54 am
Well... think on Cosmogeddon as an ancient parent of <Insert_final_boss_name_here>. :P


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: MCMic on December 07, 2008, 10:52:08 am
Good idea!

The cutscenes can be in 2D animations or in comics.
Or just good pictures with a narator.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 06, 2009, 08:35:30 pm
Updated the first post with a link to cosmo's post. That will be the current release of the SP, so it needs testing as well to see if bots work as bios says.
I need to work on LavaArena. -.-
I'm still with no idea on boss name, (I thought on Cosmaster but it sucked as well) and the sketch Ferk has posted (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg19913#msg19913) can be a good start for the boss model.

After some time thinking and some talkings later, I decided to not to include schism-b2 in the SP. :(
I left the link to q3dm6ish DM version, only for testing purposes, but remember that I'm working right now on the CTF version, and I'll be doing DM one when I finish CTF version, and it'll be off on half the map.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Snickersnack on January 07, 2009, 05:16:59 am
I'm still with no idea on boss name, (I thought on Cosmaster but it sucked as well) and the sketch Ferk has posted (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.msg19913#msg19913) can be a good start for the boss model.

How about Muay TiMaster? ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muay_Thai


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 07, 2009, 05:48:24 am
How it can be?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Snickersnack on January 07, 2009, 07:53:08 pm
How it can be?

Oh, I should explain. Where I live, Thai and Ti sound the same. Furthermore, a skilled martial artist is commonly called a master. So you might hear someone called say a Kung Fu or Muay Thai master.

I thought Muay TiMaster would be funny because it's two names in one. It would also go with the q3a theme in that Xaero resembles a Shaolin monk.

Don't take it too seriously. ;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 07, 2009, 08:02:36 pm
And a sketch of it can be...

(I'm beginning to like that idea, but there should be some sketch in order to got an idea of it, maybe I should get the Wiki with all the Boss ideas)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 17, 2009, 10:54:34 pm
I guess I'll make some new changes to Tier 2, all depends on boczeq's answer to my retex of his map blitzkrieg.

If all goes well, it'll stay and I'll make cosmo happy (:P) by changing ctf_gate1 for andrewj's retex of oa_rpg3dm1.
- oa_dm3 vs. Beret & Soldier
- blitzkrieg2 vs. Assassin & Skelebot
- am_lavaarena vs. 4 guys
- oa_rpg3dm1 vs. Metalbot

If all goes bad, it'll be replaced by oa_rpg3dm1, and ctf_gate1 will stay in its place.

- oa_dm3 vs. Beret & Soldier
- oa_rpg3dm1 vs. Assassin & Skelebot
- am_lavaarena vs. 4 guys
- ctf_gate1 vs. Metalbot

Basically, the original blitzkrieg was under GPLv3, something I didn't look at for while I was retexturizing that map, so I've emailed him. I'll be waiting for his answer...

I wanted to put oa_lun3dm2 instead of ctf_gate1 for it's blue theme, but it has the same issue, the original map was released under GPLv3. :(


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on January 18, 2009, 04:27:59 am
This should replace OA Singleplayer in next release. I'm going to release oa_koth2 under GPL too. Where would you place it in the campaign?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 18, 2009, 06:32:47 am
Honestly... I haven't no idea...
Maybe it can replace oasago2 in T6...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on January 19, 2009, 05:49:53 am
i'm all for this overhaul of the singleplayer part. but what i would like to see is some kind of progression for the player.
experiencing new things one after another and not encounter it all on the first tier. for example i think it would be a good idea to place smaller maps in the first tiers and then keep them getting bigger and bigger (apart from the last tourney map in each tier that always should be small). in my opinion "sleekgrinder" is a far to large and difficult to navigate to belong in the first tiers.

i would also like to see maps with less weapons in the first tier. there are not many games in which the player get the entire arsenal of weapons in the first stage and then keep them through the entire game. having it all from the beginning will get the game boring - introducing new weapons and pickups at different stages keeps the game interesting and the player will be more motivated to proceed through the different tiers. the same applies to quad, speed, jumppads, teleporters, carried stuff like medikits and personal teleporters. in my opinion the railgun for example does not belong in the first tiers.

these are just my thoughts - but i really do think it would add to the experience for a new player.

and one more thing - tier 5 has three maps from quake 1 - this is bad distribution imo :D





Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 19, 2009, 05:54:07 am
I have the OK. :D

Quote
Hello,

I like how you retexturized my map.
You can re-release blitzkrieg under GPLv2.
You can do whatever you want with this map.
When will be next version of OA?

Best regards,
Filip
Isn't there any problem with it, fromhell? I don't want to be sticked out to conflicts. :/

So... these will be the new changes:

T2:
- oa_dm3
- bitzkrieg2
- am_lavaarena
- oa_rpg3dm1

T6:
- kaos2
- am_galmevish
- oa_koth2
- oa_dm1

I'll be uploading the new SP file today, with updated list and maps included, so it can to be tested.

i'm all for this overhaul of the singleplayer part. but what i would like to see is some kind of progression for the player.
experiencing new things one after another and not encounter it all on the first tier. for example i think it would be a good idea to place smaller maps in the first tiers and then keep them getting bigger and bigger (apart from the last tourney map in each tier that always should be small). in my opinion "sleekgrinder" is a far to large and difficult to navigate to belong in the first tiers.

i would also like to see maps with less weapons in the first tier. there are not many games in which the player get the entire arsenal of weapons in the first stage and then keep them through the entire game. having it all from the beginning will get the game boring - introducing new weapons and pickups at different stages keeps the game interesting and the player will be more motivated to proceed through the different tiers. the same applies to quad, speed, jumppads, teleporters, carried stuff like medikits and personal teleporters. in my opinion the railgun for example does not belong in the first tiers.

these are just my thoughts - but i really do think it would add to the experience for a new player.

and one more thing - tier 5 has three maps from quake 1 - this is bad distribution imo :D

If someone can retexturize/make maps according to Tier styles, these can be replaced at all.

(I don't like that "just suck" thought, I think everything can be improved, look at Hydronex :D)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 06, 2009, 03:01:53 pm
Well, new things.

I'm working on a map called underworks, a.k.a. "Under Working". If some map on T2 (my candidates to this part are my retexturization of boczeq's blitzkrieg2 and andrewj's retexturization of R.P.G.'s oa_rpg3dm1) can't manage to end in the game, then it will be used to cover a spot. I didn't emailed him ATM, I'll be doing it today. There are four cases then:

- Case 1: This should be the preferred case. Boczeq makes his map as GPLv2, seizing the texture faultings, for example. That way I can retexturize it, (GPLv2 allows to modify maps, and both maps can be in the game) it can fit in Tier 2. Also, if andrewj finish his work on oa_rpg3dm1, this will be the T2:
* oa_dm3
* blitzkrieg2
* am_lavaarena
* oa_rpg3dm1

- Case 2: Boczeq makes his map as GPLv2, but andrewj can't finish oa_rpg3dm1 at time. This will be the T2:
* oa_dm3
* blitzkrieg2
* am_underworks
* am_lavaarena

- Case 3: Boczeq don't make his map as GPLv2 (something I doubt) but andrewj finish his work on oa_rpg3dm1. This will be T2:
* oa_dm3
* am_underworks
* am_lavaarena
* oa_rpg3dm1

- Case 4: Boczeq don't make his map as GPLv2 and andrewj don't finish his work on oa_rpg3dm1. This will be the T2:
* oa_dm3
* am_underworks
* am_lavaarena
* ctf_gate1

I'll be linking the maps on the SP campaign to their respective posts, so you can actually test them and put suggestions about any particular map there. Remember before commenting that if you say "this map in X tier is bad for weapon placement" for example, every map here is placed by its theme. If someone (or map authors themselves) can retexturize those maps, then these can be moved to another location.

EDIT: Maps linked. Some links are to threads which have bug fixes suggestions for maps.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 08, 2009, 08:09:18 am
Since q3dm6ish is gone in 0.9.0 (¿atticed?) someone have to make a 1on1 map for the final round against the Final Boss. :/


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on April 08, 2009, 09:14:47 am
i'm working in a 1vs1 duel map atm, but i don't know it it'll be done for release, as i don't know when the release will be :P

a beta version can be downloaded here if anyone is interested: http://www.anakronologerna.se/pulchr/pul1duel4.pk3

this version of the map is about halfway through with texturing, detail brushes, clipping etc. but it is playable

some textures might be missing since i'm currently working with the quake 3 arena textures - but the goal to replace all textures for 0.9.0 is fitting.
(also note that the blue texture i've used when building will not be in when the map is ready - it's unfortunate though that the texture pulsates in openarena - it does not in quake 3 arena. very irritating.)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 08, 2009, 09:30:24 am
Had a quick look at it. Great map, it reminds me of truly Q3 maps. I wish my maps were that way good. :/

Remember that this SP has conceptually-themed tiers. Try to make it as a "castle-themed" map if you want to put it as the final map on the SP.

Also, a boss model should be done for this final map. :/

The only announced next release is 0.9.0 at 9/9/2009...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on April 08, 2009, 01:18:24 pm
thanks for checking it out neon knight

oh, so the next release is 09/09/09 - i should've known ;)

i won't use the castle style for this map, so i guess it's better used somewhere else.
if i'm satisfied with the map i might wanna do another one - making a duel map was a fun experience so far.

hmm, i just remembered that i've got another duel map for ut3 that could be transformed into a castle themed map. will have to look at that later.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on April 08, 2009, 01:55:12 pm
i'm working in a 1vs1 duel map atm, but i don't know it it'll be done for release, as i don't know when the release will be :P

a beta version can be downloaded here if anyone is interested: http://www.anakronologerna.se/pulchr/pul1duel4.pk3

this version of the map is about halfway through with texturing, detail brushes, clipping etc. but it is playable

some textures might be missing since i'm currently working with the quake 3 arena textures - but the goal to replace all textures for 0.9.0 is fitting.
(also note that the blue texture i've used when building will not be in when the map is ready - it's unfortunate though that the texture pulsates in openarena - it does not in quake 3 arena. very irritating.)

The texture pulsating is maybe a shader problem. The map is good, I think it's even a bit huge for 1v1. Oh and jackthompson has a pack containing dummy textures for OA using Q3 names. I tested with that and it showed no more problem then the above you mentioned.

BTT, Neon Knight, you've made some new maps since the last update here. Doesnt any of them fits into a tier?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 08, 2009, 02:06:46 pm
Most of the maps I've done were CTF ones.

Underworks can fill a hole left in t2. Same with LavaArena and Blitzkrieg2, if Lei accepts both three maps into the next version. That will make an oa_dm3-blitzkrieg2-lavaarena-underworks tier, unless andrewj finishes his retexturizing of oa_rpg3dm1, in that case it'll replace one of my maps in that tier, and be the final map of the tier.
I'm having doubts with wrackdm17, since it's very probable that it won't reach 0.9.0, as q3dm6ish. I thought on pvomit to replace it, but there's already shine. Also thought on void4, but I don't like so much that map. Maybe a mix with Suction and other thingies to this map can work?

And I have to wait until cosmo finishes oa_koth2 to put it instead of oasago2.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on April 08, 2009, 02:08:26 pm
there are several shaders in q3a using that texture - at least one pulsates. my guess is that the wrong shader pulsates. this could be checked rather easily in gtkradiant.

please do not include void4, seriously :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 08, 2009, 02:12:15 pm
Well... there should be another space map which replaces wrackdm17... :/
pvomit is nice, but there's actually a big space map (shine) there. :/
Any ideas?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on April 08, 2009, 02:39:10 pm
i really liked the new one (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2946.0) that stjärtmunnen did, is it planned for the single player campaign?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Graion Dilach on April 08, 2009, 03:33:08 pm
Also thought on void4, but I don't like so much that map. Maybe a mix with Suction and other thingies to this map can work?

I can't map but I think the last Void update is fine. Maybe if somebody puts a Suction-base into the central thingie and put some diagonal jumppads, it would be fine for a Space King of the Hill.

pulchr, that map is seriously too big. Not bad, but huge.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 09, 2009, 06:50:50 am
As everything, you have to learn if you want to map... :/
A great tuto I've found is the one @ leveldk. (http://www.leveldk.co.uk) Also, their designs are awesome.

pulchr, as Graion said, that map is large, and the hole in T3 should be filled with a space map. And it isn't a space map.

If the retexturizing can be done in the T5-T6 (a.k.a. Castle-style) map, it can replace oasago2 in T5, since is ideal for the big amount of players (6) that spot on the SP needs.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 25, 2009, 04:25:48 pm
Added cosmo's oa_koth2 to SP.

Spacemap placeholder is there yet... remember: space platform map or something with void. No other kind of map for that placeholder.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 31, 2009, 09:07:00 am
* New bio for Neko, Gandorian Angels down to 4, each one with a different power. :P
* Changes in Tier 3 (added temporarily void4, until someone does a better space map NOTHING MORE) and Tier 6. (added oa_koth2 and oa_nemesis, dropped kaos2)

I'll be making the final file near the new version.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on June 02, 2009, 01:19:49 am
Neko does not have a 'yss' anymore. She's not a tribal native, she's a human born with a serious mental problem into thinking she's a cat in a human's body. Her appearance upgrades throughout the versions since 0.7.0 is from her purchasing more expensive implants and transplants from her arena-earned salary, dropping body paint to actual fur. Oh I should also mention she comes straight out of a ghetto prefecture in Japan. Come to think of it, that makes it five asian females in the game so far! OA needs more ethnic diversity.

I sort of came up with that one from excusing the comments like "WHY SO HUGE BOOBS" and "WHY THE ANIME EYES". They both are implants. She wanted to look like the animated catgirls on TV. She grew up reading Doraemon, and her favorite show is Tokyo Mew Mew, but those are trademarks so don't mention that.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: bill----- on June 02, 2009, 10:34:25 pm
You made all that up, didn't you?  In fact, how do we know you didn't make that latest bit up *just now*?

Serious mental problem.  Implants.  ... Grr.  

Neko's just a nice cat girl. 

With big boobs.  Ok, HUGE boobs. 

Trying to get along in the world.  Ok, killing and maiming other players in an arena for money. 

I'll shut up now.  Now that my fantasy image of Neko is shattered,  thank you very much.



Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 15, 2009, 04:19:56 pm
Changed Tiers... pulchr, I've found a place for your map. :D
T1) Pulchr's pul1duel1 will be added here when he finishes his map. It'll replace sleekgrinder.
T5) Replaced ce1m7 with dm4ish. I'll retexture that map to fit. (oasago2/am_galmevish/ctf_inyard style) Also there will be changes to be made to that map.

Neko does not have a 'yss' anymore. She's not a tribal native, she's a human born with a serious mental problem into thinking she's a cat in a human's body. Her appearance upgrades throughout the versions since 0.7.0 is from her purchasing more expensive implants and transplants from her arena-earned salary, dropping body paint to actual fur. Oh I should also mention she comes straight out of a ghetto prefecture in Japan. Come to think of it, that makes it five asian females in the game so far! OA needs more ethnic diversity.

I sort of came up with that one from excusing the comments like "WHY SO HUGE BOOBS" and "WHY THE ANIME EYES". They both are implants. She wanted to look like the animated catgirls on TV. She grew up reading Doraemon, and her favorite show is Tokyo Mew Mew, but those are trademarks so don't mention that.
Well, I thought on it just to make her fit on the SP, calm yourself... :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on June 15, 2009, 04:52:12 pm
well, i'll have to get it done now then? :)

i should get some more free time in the coming week i hope...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on July 01, 2009, 12:38:55 pm
i was wondering about tier 3 "the space maps". i'm not that excited about void 4 and i have a partially completed ut3 map that i'm planning to convert and complete for openarena. what constitutes a map as being spacey enough for the space tier? i wasn't planning on having a dark skybox with stars and planets - but a clear day style with some clouds and overall bright lights. is that right off? :>

the map will have a skybox and players can be knocked off the map and fall to death. it will be a structure floating in the air or residing on a very high mountain.

i'm currently having the ut3 editor open and recreating the basic layout in gtkradiant =)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 01, 2009, 12:46:59 pm
"it will be a structure floating in the air" that should be enough for a space map, Q3 has most of their maps that way. (look at T6 & T7 there, 5 space maps)

Anyways, could you put screenshots of your map?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Falkland on July 01, 2009, 02:35:20 pm
... i'm not that excited about void 4 ...

Neither me ... the gravity is set to 666 ( the default Q3/OA gravity value is 800 )


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on July 03, 2009, 09:09:20 am
Anyways, could you put screenshots of your map?

i'm at my parent's place now for a couple of weeks and i don't have ut3 installed here so unfortunately that's not possible. and on the other hand the map has taken another direction in the visual style so it's not really fitting in the space tier anymore. so it's not really a substitution for void 4 anyway.

but i'll give an alpha as soon as i'm satisfied with the overall layout and basic theme.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 04, 2009, 04:59:57 pm
Great. ^^

Anyways, I think I've found the replacement for void4, if sago agrees...

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=703.msg4684#msg4684


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 17, 2009, 08:47:42 pm
Changes:
- Merman moved onto T4 as a normal bot. Assassin moved onto T1 as boss. Sergei moved onto T2 as normal player.
- Map changes: T2: blitzkrieg3 is the boss map. The other 3 maps (oa_dm3, am_lavaarena and am_underworks) will remain as normal maps. T3: found RedishF as an alternative to void4_1. T6: am_galmevish2 is the 1on1 map. The normal maps here will be oa_koth2, oa_nemesis and oa_dm1.

I'll release soon the files.

EDIT: Cosmo, I had a problem with the AI, in the difficulty "I Can Win" it's very strange seeing the bots shooting, like Crash on q3dm0. (In Q3 even Ranger on q3dm1 shooted in this difficulty :/)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on July 18, 2009, 06:17:51 am
I dont know what you are trying to tell me. Maybe Ayumi shoots completely at random which should be fixed. The rest seems okay for "I can win". Even my grandma should be able to win this.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 18, 2009, 08:20:49 am
Yep, but from what I've tried, (using OAXb41 rev143) I've noticed in most maps that bots mostly tend to shoot only when they have Quad. (!)
Maybe it isn't your fault and is something related with the AI system. Anyways, the idea on I Can Win is not to allow the easy victory. One or two frags to piss off people will be good. :D


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Falkland on July 18, 2009, 12:13:18 pm
Yep, but from what I've tried, (using OAXb41 rev143) I've noticed in most maps that bots mostly tend to shoot only when they have Quad. (!)
Maybe it isn't your fault and is something related with the AI system. Anyways, the idea on I Can Win is not to allow the easy victory. One or two frags to piss off people will be good. :D

http://code.google.com/p/quake3-brainworks/ -> GPL3 project , better behaviour than ID bot (eg ... they can do REAL strafe jumpin , not as Spiterbots/CPMA bots that do it while artificially increasing g_speed ) ... I've tried to code into OAX but I had problems with some headers and all the MISSIONPACK related AI code seems to be missing ...

anyway I've got them working with OA as a mod with its own pk3 file : http://rainbow.furver.se/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1344


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on July 18, 2009, 12:24:42 pm
more intelligent bots would be a very nice addition imo.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 18, 2009, 12:47:01 pm
Unfortunately if those bots get into OA, then we'll run into license issues. (Which is something that brought problems in the past) Those bots are under GPLv3. :/


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on July 18, 2009, 12:56:35 pm
Seeing them in action is nice. We should ask the author to contribute to OA. He could dual release his code under GPL 2. Anybody?


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 18, 2009, 01:06:29 pm
I'll support the motion.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on July 19, 2009, 02:47:57 am
Okay, if lei says yes, we could use better bot AI, I am going to send him an email and ask.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on July 23, 2009, 07:15:00 am
fromhell did not respond as usual. :(
Anyway the author of Q3 Brainworkz is going to dual license his mod under GPLv2 in the next couple of days. We can use it then. :)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: pulchr on July 23, 2009, 07:49:29 am
Anyway the author of Q3 Brainworkz is going to dual license his mod under GPLv2 in the next couple of days. We can use it then. :)

very good news!


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Falkland on July 23, 2009, 08:34:11 am
Anyway the author of Q3 Brainworkz is going to dual license his mod under GPLv2 in the next couple of days. We can use it then. :)

Great news ... anyway the AI code is a bit different , some files are empty for mantaining compatibility and some files are completely new ; the code needs also to be revisioned to give AI support to MISSIONPACK because brainworks was originally conceived as a baseq3 mod.

Maybe the original author can help to explain how to do this in the best way.

Anyway ... having brainworks bots in the game will be for sure a great improvement for the game :)


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Udi on August 22, 2009, 08:09:25 am
You could add a Lava Tier: Forging Volcanos of <insert good sounding name here>, Land of burning souls etc... And then the tiers would look like this:

Steel/Modern Tier
oa_rpg3dm2 - Trial By Error
sleekgrinder (it's a unique map with the most vertical action) (previously oa_mini)
pul1duel1    - Five Steps Ahead
slimefac - Slime Facility

Factory/Abandoned Tier
oa_dm3 - The Abandoned Base
oa_mini - Mini Arena (previously am_lavaarena)
oa_rpg3dm1/am_underworks   - Trapped In Mind/Under Working
blitzkrieg3 - Blitzkrieg Sector (blitzkrieg2 please ;) )

Space Tier
oa_pvomit (it's again unique, colorful) (previously am_spacecont)
suspended - Suspended
oa_shine   - Shine
czest1tourney   - The Space Spire

Small and Furious Tier
oa_dm2 (needs a little improvement)
oa_dm4 (needs a little improvement)
dm6ish - The Dark Zone
aggressor - Aggressor

Lava Tier
am_lavaarena
oa_shouse - Strange House
ce1m7 / Redish (instead of spacecont)
dm4ish (the original size and lava)

Historic/Ancient Tier
oa_dm5 - The Cistern (the Roman Empire had some advanced water facility)
oa_uzul3
oa_koth2   - Floating Spire
oa_black (it was thought for tourney, but it's enough big for a lot of bots)

Gothic Tier
kaos2 (not oa_nemesis)
oa_dm1 - The Place of Two Deaths
am_galmevish2 - Galmevish Yards
czest1_dm - The Monastery

So, basically only by rearranging there's place for another 4 maps.  Spacecont is a great map, but for now it could be a lava map, and you don't have to retexturize dm4ish. You get some free time without this two maps :). The Tiers can be rearranged of course, so it's more interesting, like modern -> ancient -> space -> gothic -> factory etc...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 22, 2009, 09:31:24 am
Coming discussion from DM4ISH topic:

With the map style, I've converted this map to castle theme to make it fit in its tier on the SP (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2429.0).

Okay, but forcing a previous map to be something other just to fit into SP reduces variety of the maps. If a map don't fits, why don't you extend your SP? If you need another map to fill the gaps why don't you make another completely new?

You could add a Lava Tier: Forging Volcanos of <insert good sounding name here>, Land of burning souls etc... And then the tiers would look like this:

Steel/Modern Tier
oa_rpg3dm2 - Trial By Error
sleekgrinder (it's a unique map with the most vertical action) (previously oa_mini)
pul1duel1    - Five Steps Ahead
slimefac - Slime Facility

Factory/Abandoned Tier
oa_dm3 - The Abandoned Base
oa_mini - Mini Arena (previously am_lavaarena)
oa_rpg3dm1/am_underworks   - Trapped In Mind/Under Working
blitzkrieg3 - Blitzkrieg Sector (blitzkrieg2 please ;) )

Space Tier
oa_pvomit (it's again unique, colorful) (previously am_spacecont)
suspended - Suspended
oa_shine   - Shine
czest1tourney   - The Space Spire

Small and Furious Tier
oa_dm2 (needs a little improvement)
oa_dm4 (needs a little improvement)
dm6ish - The Dark Zone
aggressor - Aggressor

Lava Tier
am_lavaarena
oa_shouse - Strange House
ce1m7 / Redish (instead of spacecont)
dm4ish (the original size and lava)

Historic/Ancient Tier
oa_dm5 - The Cistern (the Roman Empire had some advanced water facility)
oa_uzul3
oa_koth2   - Floating Spire
oa_black (it was thought for tourney, but it's enough big for a lot of bots)

Gothic Tier
kaos2 (not oa_nemesis)
oa_dm1 - The Place of Two Deaths
am_galmevish2 - Galmevish Yards
czest1_dm - The Monastery

So, basically only by rearranging there's place for another 4 maps.  Spacecont is a great map, but for now it could be a lava map, and you don't have to retexturize dm4ish. You get some free time without this two maps :). The Tiers can be rearranged of course, so it's more interesting, like modern -> ancient -> space -> gothic -> factory etc...
Well, if you take a look at how I've arranged the tiers, both the maps, bots and bio, with the only exception of the first, all the tiers connects themselves in a way or another, mainly thematically. That's why I didn't put, for example, oa_pvomit on the space tier. Plus, the bots were rearranged (and have its own bio) with that (and playercount the map can hold) in mind.

I mean, look at UT3, any map Epic had done for it follows a theme, even the Titan Pack ones, and all the map themes have a connection which have its source/core on the SP. Do you want another example of tier arrangement? Quake 3 itself. Even with the "Vadrigar reunited all the best warriors on the world and made them fight to please their race" all the maps had a kind of visual connection among them. The exception can be the tier 4, which could have been put as T6 for example. You know, "the game as a whole, rather than just a part of it". ALL the gaming developer houses has that in mind, I don't see why we can't/won't/don't.

In other words, as I've told to chaoticsoldier, IMHO we should work together on a single and coherent thing rather than lots of small works which aren't related between them.

BTW, at this point I'll be doing the SP planning only with the maps which are on the SVN (http://openarena.ws/svn/maps/).


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Udi on August 23, 2009, 06:23:12 am
Yeah, I know the mantra: "Look at commercially successful games, who are working with hired professionals 8 hours a day according to a strict schedule. We can and _should_ do the same with volunteers from around the globe working in their free time." I don't think so. The cathedral and the bazaar cannot be compared. And here's why: you made a story to include all the models unchanged. Not the models were made for the concept, but the concept for the models, which results in a pretty strange story. It's so weird like the anime world for Popeye (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRPvz-LV-k). But ok, we have one, thanks for your effort. And now you choose maps to strictly fit into the concept. Why? Probably because you can make maps, but not models. Don't get me wrong, I neither can make maps nor models, but the argument that classic games like UT and Q3 have also a strict concept in maps is limping on one foot. Because games like UT and Q3 have also models fitting into the concept. Once you told me that OA doesn't have to be überserious. Where's that attitude? Omitting pvomit (no pun intented :)) because it doesn't fit, but having four angels of Gandoria who are actually slaves? I don't know...

But okay, I trust you, it's the best for OA ;). You haven't said anything about the other changes in the list. Like putting oa_minia next to oa_dm3, because oa_minia and pul1duel are almost as far from each other like pvomit and suspended. And what about the lava tier? And what about oa_uzul3 or oa_black? I didn't see fromhell's announcement of a content freeze. So you can include am_galmevish, am_lavaarena and dm4ishv2 (which has still bugs) but not oa_uzul3 or oa_black which are beautiful maps, just because the author doesn't posted it into the SVN Commits topic? I hope because it's your SP campaign (even the topic says so), your maps don't get advantage over others ;).

And closing down SP maps won't help much to actually provide content for a coherent game fitting into the concept. I agree that we should work together, not making different parts, but the SP story which was made for the models is not a good start. A game on it's own requires a completly blank sheet, and when you have filled the whole page than you can start making GUIs, models, maps, homepage. OA is not like that. No matter if you drop maps or models into the bin and have a good looking themed game, pulchr will come up with clean/modern maps, you would come up with UT/simple/castle maps, fromhell would come up with anime/Japanese style models and so on... There's simply not enough volunteer mappers/modelers/any other artists to make a specific kind of game. OA should be a mixture of high quality content, no restrictions, just quality. Let's concentrate on quality not concept, make the SP flexible, the more maps, the better, the bigger the variety, the better. You will never know when 1.0.0 will come out who will start making oa_pvomit style or UT style games based upon OA. But until then it should have the potential to develop in every directions.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: cosmo on August 24, 2009, 03:53:17 am
Udi is right.
Besides: UT2k3 maps are a horrible set of 'themed' places. Everything feels like thrown together in a hasty night. Gameplay is even worse.

It is not a good idea to have same looking spacemaps in one tier. pvomit is a welcome difference. Same goes for reddish with lava. That's what I am trying to tell you, Neon Knight, for month. Same goes for over and over usage of the same textures in your maps. There are more gothic surfaces than the ones used in aggressor. Please be more versatile.
Gothic, industrial, space are no real themes... lets have it another way.

Besides: The last map of each tier has be a 1on1 map!

Hm, we could put some impaled anime characters to the walls...

@Udi: oa_black is not done yet. Please be patient. I am far from finishing it. Do you have any suggestion about oa_koth1? I did not have enough time to talk to any players willing to review it. I can imagine retexturing it and turning it into a rock/industrial basement map although I am not in the mood spending too much time on it alltogether.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: AmDDRed on November 10, 2010, 01:36:30 pm
Okey, I've read the thread, and I like to say some words (with broken english )).

THE DESIGN

It's good idea to make tiers according to map designs. But you mustn't forget about the thing that the whole project should have common design (like the big projects, you know).
What do we have now? Not quite bad weapons, a pack of fan-made player models and pack of several different maps. Any serious quaker would look at it with words: "Emm... You want me to change my Q3 to THIS?! Kid, are kidding me?". That's because ID made all in one way, let's say so. For example - after Ranger we meet not Doom, but Phobos, colored orange. Why? Because it's green uniform would not fit to red-brown-yellow color scheme of starting levels. But later on he appears on cosmic maps, where he looks naturally.
And I think that just with storyline you can't make OA look like it was made with by one team. Remember QIII? It described nothing. But the atmosphere it created made the game unique. The dekadent characters by their view only told stories.
OK, enough talking, lets get down to business.

THE MAPS

I totally agree that maps should be devided on tiers by their design. That's the first one.
Second, I always thought about such games, with good multiplayer, that their single player campaign is designed not only to tell story about game universe, but also to prepare player for online gaming. Well, this is good gamedesigned rule - simple at first, hard at last.
Of course, there must be final boss in almost each tier (remember q3 - tier 6 had no Arena Lord, it was Xaero), but also I'd like to see some light defrag training maps (tripple jump, circle jump, rocket jump, plasma jump - smth that is not very hard to do from the first time) - because it's elements are used in online fighting.
And, of course, before placing maps in one tier they should be «synchronized» - the same teleporters, design elements, jumppads, textures (where it is needed) etc...

THE MODELS

Models must be changed. What we have now — it's not «quake by spirit», it's «happy tree friends by spirit» - funny unproportional models with bad textures (some of them made anime style) running killing each other. Yeah, and the boobs. Well, that's anime too... And some made as the replacement for Q3 models (Slash, Doom, Major, Klesk...).
Not matter how different were Q3 models, they were united by design. They wasn't funny. Killing each other maybe is cool, but not funny. Maybe evil fun (as some gladiators were maniacs, such as Cadavre), but not laughing. That's killing the «spirit of Q3». Models must be remade, added new etc...
And then — Arena Lords fitted perfectly their Arenas. The demon-looked Klesk (which is religious zealot by story) habited the Cathedral like Arena. Uriel in the hood, hiding his face, hided in the mist — by story the encestor of Vadrigars. Anarki, the flying cyperpunk — in high tech design with vertical architecture.
Ok, the Hunter had have to hunt Sorlag in some jungles, but you got the main point: it must be seen the Arena is the Lord's territory. With his favourites weapons and fetish...
The basic models must be heroic-style. Maybe, decadent heroes, but still — heroes. Or megalomaniacs.

THE WEAPONS
Hello, arms...
This ones should be added one by one, different variation, to train noob how to use them, to switch from one to other... From tier to tier...
Also all weapons must be quite alike — color scheme, form alike. Remember the machinegun and rokit launcha from Q3? The basis — and the barrel(s). The shotgun and GL. The energo weapons... They aren't similar, but have smth similar in design. Btw I think that OA weapons should be redone — shooting nice, looking terrible, at least RL, Rail and plasma.

I'd like to devide weapons to 3 main groups:
Small Weapons
1. Gauntlet;
2. Machine Gun;
3. Shotgun;
4. Grenade Launcher;

Heavy Weapons
5. Rokit Luncha;
6. Chainsaw;
7. Nailgun;
8. Mine Launcher;

Energy Weapons
9. Plasma Gun;
10. Lightning Gun;
11. Railgun;
12. BFG10K;

I think all weapons within one group must be alike, sharing the same elements: for example, small arms could have short butt, high strap sight (like G36c) and cylindrical magazines. One barreled heavy machinegun (not the clone of q3 mini-chainsaw), jackhammer styled shotgun and revolver style GL. And so on.
Small arms for first, earthlike tiers, Heavy — for middle game, Energy — for futuristic designs.  Of course, rail and gauntlet are kind of exceptions ))
And — yeah — heil to mines in CTF/Domination (and so on) modes. )

THE END
...of speech.
So that's my vision. I hope it would be usefull for those who make maps and models and OA itself.
And I hope this is a joke — that you're going to make anime OA. That's benchy.
But you must think out the general idea — would it be fairy tail with wizards and sorcerers, or horror with necromancers and demons. IMHO, you shouldn't go away from id conceptions too much. But without the id — without the clones of Q3A. Another way OA will always be the copy.

P.S.: Also, I think that only FFA mode should be in tiers, as team work requiers cooperation which is hardly got with the bots...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Udi on November 10, 2010, 02:20:33 pm
AmDDRed, OA never wanted to remake the Q3 feeling or style. Eventually it will shift to an anime-style concept (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3573.0). More consistency will come, but definitely not «quake by spirit».


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 10, 2010, 02:23:51 pm
Plus, read this: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3512.0

I'm too "busy" to work with the SP. Oh, and just for the record, the only (or at least, one of the few) reason(s) I'm using the SP is for the visuals of my maps.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Cacatoes on November 10, 2010, 04:20:05 pm
That said, there are good remarks on your post.
The art direction may never have been very clear (what's the openarena universe ?) and not to arrange things there is also a lack of contributors to provide quality material.



Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: AmDDRed on November 10, 2010, 05:00:27 pm
Yeah, I've understood, that it's not going to be q3, but as smone had written in wiki, it's going to be quake by spirit. I thought it's smth serious and grim, mb without pentagrams, but not rainbowish as hell.

And it's a pity to hear about anime-styled OA. I've never been fan of it, so if it will happen, I would never advise this game to my friends.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: RMF on November 10, 2010, 06:19:51 pm
I'm not so for the anime too, but the community is just awesome. What's a game without gameplay and nice ppl? For graphics and sounds you can always say 'oh well', so as oa has both my requirements it's -imo- one of the best games existing :)

And about your previous post, well sounds all cool but who's gonna make it? (You, maybe? :) ) And oa isn't really a singleplayer game. It's only fun to set a new (imaginary) time record when your internet is down or something :P Or that's what I always do, see how fast you can rush through it at nightmare level.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 10, 2010, 07:30:08 pm
Public Medium Ignorance (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3589.msg30583#msg30583), indeed.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: AmDDRed on November 11, 2010, 04:06:49 am
And about your previous post, well sounds all cool but who's gonna make it? (You, maybe? :) )

No, I won't. Not enough skill and time.
But! There are no conrete ideas yet. There's need to say what do you really need.
Like, "in tier one we need 4 maps, made in this style, first two should be 1 on 1, third 3 on 1 (whatever), the last - 1 on 1; First map should be made with shotgun, second - with shotgun and GL, third - with RL and shotgun, forth - with GL and nailgun. Shotgun map should be made with a lot of short distances, and one long - for machinegun; GL map should be done with two or three floors, usuall distance - medium; RL map should have some space for manevrs, few floors, short distance places; And NG map should be mixing floors, long distance (to have space to move away of nails and machinegun have it's power) and short-medium also - it must be convienient for the boss to kill the player.

When all 4 maps collected, must be a man, "senior mapper" who would overlook these maps and change the textures etc to fit one standard.
Then you can think what kind of characters can habit these places. If you have needed model, "teach" it to use correct weapon and go on. Or otherwise, make map for a great-looking character.
Also the textures of the weapons should be overlooked to fit the style of the tiers...

An I guess, if there would be a little bit more interaction with modders, like HeadHunters, Generations etc, who create their own maps and models, there would be much more profit. But only with concrete ideas:
- Emm, can you help us?
- Ok, what do you need?
- Emm, well, we don't know...
- Well, I don't know it either!
Maybe not the first one would agree, but the forth, fifth and so on. You know it by yourself ( for example, you asked for bot improvement algoryth or smth under GPLv2, you weren't denied).

Public Medium Ignorance (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3589.msg30583#msg30583), indeed.
Are you talking about anime? I know what is that. But the best and serious anime films (like "D", "Ghost in the Shell" etc) are drawing humans very naturally. Mb, a little bigger eyes. That's all.
But the anime is mainstream, it's cool now would it be cool after two years? And btw this style killed Disciples game serie...

P.S.: The trainingmap (like the Crash arena) could be this way - you appear nowhere on a platform, without weaponry and you have to flea jumping the platforms away of the bot shooting you.
Or you have to make the race in time before the doors would shut.
And nothing should be explained.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Gig on November 11, 2010, 02:01:38 pm
I like animes, but I don't feel OpenArena needs them...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 11, 2010, 02:05:27 pm
I don't know, maybe the "anime" part is for inspiration and the whole thing ends being entirely different. We have to wait and see...


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on November 13, 2010, 09:39:31 pm
What do you think OA will look like? Warsow?

AS IF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Warsow looks more like French graphic novel than anime. I'm not going anywhere near 'cel-shading' or the popularily misspelled "cell shading" and i'm not rotoscoping either.


The whole anime theory applied to OA is for visual consistency - q3's models were inconsistent because q3 originally had a planned 3 tier player class system (mid-1998 design), so they had light, medium and heavy models. In the end (like around May 1999) they scrapped that system and made everyone 'light' but retained the differently bulked models they did for the system (keel was heavy for example. the player models were all produced around early99/late98). OA doesn't have such a thing in mind... but if you think OA is going to turn into Touhou.... WRONG. This won't be a first-person cuter and despite my skimpy anime girl modeling habits, this won't be a first-person eroge arena shooter either.

The anime style would still be highly Bengus influenced.


Title: Re: OpenArena Tournament: my SP campaign
Post by: fromhell on December 16, 2010, 04:56:31 pm
And btw this style killed Disciples game serie...

i'm not seeing it, it looks like standard 'korean mmo realism' style where the only exaggerants are in the hair