OpenArena Message Boards

here are some reasons why I think Open arena is not popular.

-the website

a first impression is always a good one and the first time I stumbled upon your site I said "I don't wanna download as the site looks awful!" but then I was bored and I gave it a try and loved the game ;). I am not saying we should have a huge(annoying) flash website...I'm saying is embed a youtube vid of the game on the homepage make some better menus make the files section more organized etc... 

-online

not much people are available online but their is really nothing much we can do about this..:(

any other ideas?




 

The best you can do is to promote the game. :P

Also, the game isn't at 1.0, it's at 0.8.1 by now. :P

The website is probably the most ugly thing but the old site was over 300kb in load and wasn't kind to the server during release times which often lead to the super ugly placeholder simple links site.

I could rip off some OSWD design and make the 3 column php-ish site I wanted. After doing the Haktoria (http://openarena.ws/haktoria) site I feel I could do a bit better now with some better understanding of CSS

Or... what about including a Portal on the site like MKPortal (http://www.mkportal.it)?
I use it on my ex-band's site, also I know an argentinean Unreal site which uses it, and it's awesome.

CMS systems would be overdoing it. I am not overdoing.

OA won't  become popular bcuz of Q3A and QL. At least it has the same engine and gameplay but Quake is a series of games which are played by players with long-standing gaming experience. Those old stagers stick to their Quake game and wouldn't be that interested in playing a "Q3 Clone" 4 a longer time. In addition QL (free browser version of Q3) is the only serious promotion 4 Quake novices tbh. Nevertheless OA is a great alternative to "feel" the quak'ish pwnage mentality :]

There's always the possibility that OA gets more exposure when QL gets marketed. Ye there will be the 'ol failthfull' quake people but I don't think that accounts for many people these days. Lots of people who play QW hate Q3.. and people who play Q3 hate Q4.

There is no reason why OA can't have much the same functionality as QL - except it would be based on software sitting safely on your drive and in your control. Just not as portable. Given the choice of using the Q3 engine or a 'browser edition' game then throw in 'supported by ads' then I dont think it's much about choice. For people who are working in offices it might be the next best thing.. and become the worst nightmare for the employers :D

I'm good at photoshop so I can make a sig or something promoting OA

I can offer banner space since the site I have in mind offers free hosting. I didn't put up any banner ads because it's not worth it since people who use free hosting are just as likely not want to pay for anything :D Might be an ideal option for OA. Anyway the offer and options are open.. even if it might be more suitable in the future. The site generates alot of traffic. I guess it might attract some complete beginners so might be good time to get some pwning screen shots :D

If theres no interest in this then I still think a few banners and stuff would be very useful.

I'l make a banner promoting OA is their a way I can get some pictures of rendered player models?(a.k.a no background)

 

I think you hit the spot... I still dont know myself why I keep playing... coz base maps are really awful, and I have q3... but I can not join the servers smootly in q3... always some problem. There are q3 map available for oa, but no server play them... or they are always empty...

The only think that oa can do is to join the ubuntu movement as one of the star games to gain players... but the packages are never updated in the repository... (and i repeat it) the maps are quite awful... so...

and fromhell is not into making the game popular anyway... he wants to do it his way... Ive read him several times saying so... ... so there you have the results...

Anyway, even if the map thing works out in 1.0 and nice servers become available.... I think that quake is old... as ficatus said... its only chance is the new raising ubuntu community and make things nice and easy for them...

And this is only if some1 is interested in making it happened

A nice website has nothing to do with it (from my pov) a few get carried away with a fancy web, but... I like to think that those are the least

btw, i didnt know about QL (http://www.quakelive.com/)

It looks awesome!!!

I usually play on the first release of q3 simply because theres always loads of people there and you can connect to nearly all servers without a problem. I still play oa and it's something different especially having a change of maps. I've never found 1.32 much of an option as you only have so much patience trying to connect to servers and get some mismatch error, especially when servers dont allow dl.

That problem doesnt exist on 1.16 because there is no download function and people usually play noghost and nemesis (which have alot of the stuff popular mods have).

I have never played cpma because I have never managed to download all the map paks so things like that just don't do any good when you can't just download on demand. The mod becomes like another game it seems and too much of that happened with 1.32.

I think compatibility is important to keep ppl returning and be able to simply connect to servers without issues. Most servers I connect to have been up for maybe 5 years or more and I guess that's because people know what they are getting. The configs usually never change either.

I think the point about QL will probably affect q3 more than OA. One thing good about QL you wont get all the compatibility issues and 200 different cvars for each mod like many servers on 1.32 turned out like. If I could connect to servers on 1.32 and download at high speed knowing I can connect to 99% of the server in the browser without problems then I might be there instead of oa. I would still go back to 1.16 because I like TDM. So OA didnt make me stop playing 1.16 and vice versa. I guess it's probably the same for other people who may play cpma, defrag, QL etc. If I were to choose one then I'd probably just get bored and not play at all. :S

hahaah I come from 1.16 community too... it was a really nice community with a really nice set ups :) If you add the all-seing eye as a server finder you got it all :)
You can dl just the demo and play in the servers. It was fast, easy and nice ;)

I had 1.32 switched to 1.16 to play in those servers. I had the full for all the models and maps... and sometimes i liked to swtich to 1.32 to play rocket arena 3 :)

I have to try to install it back some how to join those servers again under linux ;)

and a pd question: Do u know why is not a single nice noghost sever in oa like "Tenacius D" or "fasthernet + blah= trouble"? I tried to set up one the other day but i guess my connection is not good enuf for that
pd2: this is just to try the glow thing
pd3: this is just to try the shadow thing
pd4: QL seems to me a nice try to gain all those lose players spread out all the servers/versions/forks. I cant wait. ID knows the community... i dont know why it didnt move before...

If you get the linux binary (i think it's at the nemesis site) and then try run it with pak0 - pak2 in baseq3 then it might work. pak0 is version 1.11 and 1 and 2 is the update to 1.16n. ASE is no longer being supported and you cant connect to the master servers. :(  As an alternative you can try qtracker and you can probably get listings for q3 and oa. :) (oops.. if your using linux then qtracker probably wont be any use.. but neither will ASE I guess :) )

feLiZ_naVidAD wrote:


You are absolutely right. Those maps (except the ported ID maps and one or two others done by professionals) really suck. The GPL licensing of OA does not allow incorporation of most custom made maps into the releases. However, there are lots of good maps that can be run under OA. Here is my list of tested maps:

chitourney1
ik3dm2
lun3dm2
lun3dm3
lun3dm4
nodm16
plduel2
psyco3dm3
pukka3dm1
hub3_aeroq3
q3_bloodflowers  *
q3_curse2  *
q3_elkdm2 *         
q3_ultrav *
q3arc1

AFAIK these maps are all available for download at LvL. Maybe server admins are not aware that such maps exist (or are too lazy to search for them and playtest). We could send them this information. The list of compatible maps could even be included in the OA releases. I am sure that this would not be a violation of the sacred GPL ;-) If you think that this idea has some merit, I am willing to playtest a bunch of maps (I have collected quite a few) to see which ones are compatible. The list shown above is just my preference for my server (including a shameless plug about my own maps marked by asterisks :-)

In fact I think OA is waaaay better than QL already.
QL is not really that portable.... you have to install some kind of plugin to use it, and this plugin is only available for Microsoft Windows (currently) and only running for some specific browsers.
Also, QL gamming is far more limited than OpenArena... in QL there's no MODS and there wont be... there are less gameplay options and less character models to choose from, no user-made models, no user made maps (on the other hand, when OA has all the Q3 textures replaced it will have TONS of compatible maps to play) and QL also has commercial limitations like ads and that kind of stuff (for now it's not intrusive, but we will see later..)

Not to mention that OA is 100% libre (freedom) software... and it can be improved and extended to the infinity by anyone. The more popular AO is the more contributors it will have and the faster it will improve. People should realize this.. we should advertise OA and talk about it to our friends... it's a really good game with lots of potential. Moreover, since it's content-based (and not so much about coding) the OA content will likely be able to be used in any future engine that is developed (it's not limited to Quake), being able to evolve using newer engines and get better and better ;)

That's the point. ;)
It's easy to be a Q3Boy/QLBoy and say "OA sucks, go QL/Q3!!!", but helping out to try to make it better, or at least helping developers/mappers/modellers/etc saying what's wrong and what changes/fixes should be made in the game... that's another story.

Very true but are they really comparable? Q3's success was arguably the result of id making the source available and coders developing mods who were not associated with id. Most of these people have moved on to other things, most popular and succesful mods date back to 2002.

Fitacus highlighted support of players who follow the Quake series but on the other hand OA will also have the support of this GPL thing. I think there's pros/cons in each and not necessarily a good or a bad thing.

You are right about the portability thing. People don't realise how much downloading time for QL will be consumed if they don't have an uber fast connection. Kind of loses it's identity as a brower game if it goes one way and loses it's marketing appeal for the 'pros' and serious gamers (which will be valuable at attracting new blood) if it goes the other.

Nope it's much harder to become the bestest in Q3 than bothering fromhell ;)

I've never bothered fromhell TTBOMK. :P
(And if I've done... I don't remember. :/)

I mean, AFAIK every map/model/texture included in OA (or, at least, GPLed) can be modified to be improved, not only by his/her original author, but by every user. And I'm not talking about sending PMs, (I know the issue fromhell has with them) but since she isn't the only one in the OA team, leaving suggestions at the forum itself on X problem, for example, issue in X map, leaving it in map's topic (or if it doesn't exists, create a new topic :P) or trying to fix [him/her]self. That way, he/she can help to improve the project. Obviously, there are some things that can't be changed because of the direction the project has.

In what respects to me, I always ask for comments, suggestions, on what I do. I'm almost open on it and accept almost every suggestion, despite my lack of skill on mapping and my null skill on modelling/texturizing.

do new versions get beta-tested by players aswell or what?
seems every new version gets worse and never finished,.. oh no it will get fixed in the new new version? :|
or make every option ,..like sounds and so on optional in a sort of menu.
Is the ingame browser ever get improved?,...like show what players (playernames) are on the servers?
Now it shows ,..(only humans) (Show full)(show empty)(show privat) so pointless it seems,...just (show playernames and all the rest can go away. (keep show full/show empty) imo

i think one big reason may be one already mentioned because it is in fact a clone and the majority of quake users will continue to be quake users without a lot of new users and cpma became a sort of competition standard..  if oa had a cpma like mod which had improvements over cpma, warsow and painkiller, came with it already in the openarena dir it may get more attention that way but..  this isn't the intention of openarena?  i guess i'll have to get un lazy and work on a mod around 1.0.1 time lol.  i think i prefer the style of oa over quake though, cats etc over people with visors and television like heads.

Yes. OA acclaimed the status as a game for newbies, whereas q3 with all those PRO-mods is loved by competitive gamers. I wish OA would add some features which would strenghten its PRO level, but on the other hand this would be a contradiction (according to fromhell) as all those noobies wouldnt know all the fancy cvars which would be useful in gaming- like hud, bobup and damagekick (which i hope will be applied). Look at warsow- it has like 4 player models, but its more popular than OA.

There are too many instant PRO-'s and kids will grow up a worse person thinking they are bigger and better than everyone else. If theres going to be a PRO- version of openarena then please have its own protocol (that normal people dont even get to know about it) and deny them access to the places where normal people go.

this is nothing to do with pro stuff really, its just really about giving some variety to how people can play, its not some hacked up binary either its just a mod which doesnt have the same quirks of taking something from quake to oa from actually making it for oa.  i don't think i understand what you mean by instant pro's, do you mean cypher or someone else who managed to do really good in a short time?

The Lazer server(s) have a promode option ,..well they have all options when u use /callvote
Great server just hardly anyone knows it exists :(
1 server that has it ALL ,..but then for real.
ffa dm tdm freeztag instagib tournament,...
what more you want? 1 IP can give u all the games u want
YAY!

is the server on 0.8.1?  i checked a few times lately and can't see it listed.

We could add new features w/o changing the basic gameplay of Q3A. I have already mentioned a few possibilities in an earlier post (e.g. more flexible weapon selection system). And even if the gameplay is changed, the new feature could be made optional (controlled by a cvar) and inactive by default. In this case the game is not compromised in any sense.

As for the fancy cvars and tons of config options, you have to admit they are rather intimidating at first. To make newcomers more comfortable, we could extend the menu system so that practically all cvars and config options would be possible to adjust from the game menu. It is fairly straightforward C programming, mostly copy-modify-paste of existing code.

A related point is that OA needs decent documentation. The install package does not have any documentation whatsoever, unless you also count the text of the GPL as a doc. :-) Ok, there is a lot of info on the net, but we are talking about newbies who may not know where and how to get it. We could collect some of the basic Q3A documents and tutorials and put them in a 'doc' directory in the install package. Practically no extra work is needed for this.  Maybe write a config tutorial explaining the purpose and use of different config options in a form comprehensible even to newbies. IMO small extras like these make a game successful and popular.

Maybe I don't want to?

Terse and cryptic, as usual... :-) I assume you refer to the popularity of OA. Why not? Would it be a bad thing?

Its often empty so, you have to set "show empty"
when you see the server you can put it in your favourites.
The server is not popular yet, give it some time. :)

play on rofl instagib ctf
also if you wait for a while in an empty server someone may join ;)

I believe that it will be more popular with full mission pack
(co-op game types are more popular)

Read this entire topic for all your answers (and to know what happened to the last guy who said OA should change its gameplay :P)

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2143

If anything, changing, or 'improving' the current gameplay (rather than adding new game types that don't interfere the ones they love) would ruin popularity more than anything.

Instagib ctf is stupid imo i dont like it so no.
I only play there if im realy realy realy bored:D

For great instagib i rather play on the corkscrew server ,.. later in the evenings.

totally agree with you instagib cft is stupid... but the server is always full...

Id love to see some freeze tag server.... witch makes any map fun instantly... its played tdm and it can be played normal weapons, all weapons, just rail, just rocket or any combination . The best freeze tag mod (plus lot of features) is noghost. (www.Noghost.net) they even added open arena support...

Ppl running servers, pleasee!! give just one server!!! :)

I dont understand why there isnt any server of this running... its really fun

I set up a server, but my upload connection is not good enough :(

There are 2 servers that run freezetag ,..RN UFreeze and  **LAZER   --> Xbattle mod
of the latter i know the IP 62.75.163.69:27974  ands port :27975 for ctf
/callvote  <-----      for all kinds of options

i agree, freezetag is a very fun mode, more servers with people plz :)

My question is, why do these maps suck?

There is nothing stopping anyone from improving on them and like a bad haircut you don't know until someone tells you. Do they suck because of gameplay? Are they poorly arranged? Do you find them ugly (textures, lighting, what?)? Does the framerate die at certain points? Seriously, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, why?

You can't fix what you don't know is broken (and lets face it fixing what is broken is much more important than adding features).

Also, with my maps I'm always asking for comments on what to improve, (sometimes I feel I'm spamming the forum with that :/) and while I can (or while I'm not lazy :P) I take the best ones and implement them in the map with what I can work.
And I'm not the only one, I know. :)

I was touching a little bit the Wiki with links to map threads, so everyone who has a comment about the map can leave the suggestion there, and the mapper (or anyone who wishes to make the change) does the work.

With ideas, well, there's a direction the project will follow, and it's obvious that things like Vehicles, destroyable environment and more ultracrazythingsonlywishedbysomeonelikeFlipendo (:P) will not go into the game. ATST, NOTTODO shows what can't be done by engine limitations or project's direction.

There's not so much to talk about it. :/

Imho, all the maps conversions from q1 maps, sucks... those levels were never intended nor designed to be mp, nor played in quake3 engine, those were 1p campain maps adjusted to be mp... its nice to remember them, and all... but remembering is one thing and another thing is that almost all dm servers run those maps coz they are in baseoa/

And CTF, aside from osago (simple and nice fast play, but awful textures), and 2 more maps that are ok, the rest are not good to play... i don't remember names now, but its easy to see, when you go to a map and ppl start voting to move on...

Armaggedon man maps are ok, btw...
They may not be perfect, but compared with the crappy maps that dwell in oa servers, armaggedon man maps are some fresh air to breathe :) and no, i dont know how to make your maps better, join a server and ask the ppl who is actually playing... maybe you get some nice feedback :) I just cant wait servers to have q3dm6ishCFT... it looks like really nice :)

And also, the "newbies" (i like this word more than noobs) just can't connect to the servers but they dont know why, just coz they dont have the autodownload thing... and nowhere its said to them thats the problem... this could be changed easily and add a more strict policy about overwriting files by evil packages...

but I say it AGAIN, fromhell is not interested in making open arena popular, he has stated so several times throughout this forum... so this discussion is pointless... Maybe he's hope for that happening for 1.0 when the game is more complete or he really doesnt give a fuck, who knows

And this is coming from a guy who plays oa 2h each day minimum... LoL

First of all i want to give a big "thank you" to all the guys who made maps for oa! i know that this must be very hard work and i could not do that. but unfortunatly the best work could be done better.

Some words about the CTF-Maps:
most maps are disliked by the players. why? i think there are some reasons about this. and here are some rules for the mappers.

1. the ways to the flags should be as short as possible. look at hydronex and you know what i mean with to long ways.
2. the ways to the flags should be as fast as possible. only if you can strafe the whole time or use jumppads the players will like it. ctf_gate1 or ao_spirit3 are good examples for great looking maps who break down the speed of movement. players do not like that.
3. players need more than one way to the flag. and this ways should cross, so the player can change the road to the flag. this should be possible for him without any loss (of speed or time).
4. do not use water as a possible way to the flags. water slows down the speed to hell. noone loves this.
5. do not make 3 or more ways in line as the ways to the flags. ctf_inyard looks great but the only thing you have to do is strafe forward and shoot. that is no fun.
5. if you make sniperdecks, be careful. the snipers should not controll the whole map.
6. beware of the weapons. if you saw at aosago2, the proxies break down the complete gameplay. create a poll to examine, wich weapons are used by the players and place them carefully.
7. players should reach the enemyflag but it also should be possible to get out. hydronex' flagchamber is absolutely deadly, a funblocker 2000.
8 (important!). think about the following: would you play your map? i have seen pulchr and sago007 online, playing their (and other) maps. i think, that they know what they do :-)

Good maps are oasago2 and pul1. ps37 is also a nice map (similar to oasago).
for the bases7 could be a future, if the water would be removed (parched like a wadi) and the edges should be polished. maybe a third way to the enemybase could help to (but is not neccessary if you can use the waterway fast).

HTH

ctf4ish is a very good masp aswell.
Only people dont like to be railed up the arse every2 seconds by me or any good railer.
Thats not a map problem imo but the lack of good players.
I played very good matches on ctf4ish with good railers in the other team.
Pretty annoying to get railed often but the sweeter the victory when u cap the flag.
Its sad to see that map voted off so many times by people who are not very skilled or say its a boring map.
There is a map called oa_ctf4ishum1 with new weapens placement (good map for next version)
A game doesnt have to end 8-? al the time, it can also end 3-? imo.
You never learn to play a map well, if you always vote them off

Whats the difference with map ctf2 anyway??? 1 less jumppad to get to the flag?? same difference imo
But that map is played very often and u get railed up the arse just as easy on that map ,..so...

Stop bitchin about map ctf4ish  (all who play ctf2 and vote ctf4ish off are just a bunch of hypocrits :) )

Oddly, ROFL Instagib is popular. I have to play on it as there are no players on other servers.
q3 OSP's configuring was easier for me at first, as there was a menu where you could control everything (bind m menu). Later i could change same settings using console only.
In ctf2 rail is near (can quickly revenge the camper), ctf4ish rail is far.

I will never play in instagib

The reason being is because I was kicked once because I talked back to the asshole Mod

From what  I remember is. He asked that all my kills were from camping (I had over 90 kills, and I wasnt even camping.) I then tell him, I dont care about my score. I just want to win.

He then proceeds to kick me. I come back and he kicks me again..


Very dumb.

Must have been Tarpit server. I was kicked there too. I wanted revenge for railing me in all spots of the map, and i was kicked.

right. but "spacemaps" are not for newbies. these kind of map is to difficult for beginners (look at their scores from -1 to -...). and only if oa can get new players it would be more popular. at this kind oa needs more simple maps for beginners. experienced players find their maps :-)
and the rule for ctf is: fast gameplay with a lot of action for a range of 4-16 players without being dm. maps must be designed for this.

Hehe, much to say here.

I'm not really into variety, I mainly play CTF, so here are a few feedbacks :

- some noobs (not saying it in a pejorative way) maps, I avoid oa_bases maps as I don't feel they are interesting, even the last one (bases7) which is a bit more complex, I almost prefer previous ones. They can be okay to play, but not singular enough. One of them is too bright (all white) with vertex and my brightness. And as Rudy says, there has to be a variety of level for a variety of skill.
- some noob servers, such as instagib ; popular because it doesn't require much skill except moving the mouse and zooming. People like the fact it's easy to kill, and it is impossible for them against some good players who often have good armor and bash noobs too easily, it gives them the feeling they achieved something at least.
- I'm suprised ps37ctf is quite okay to play, it's simple in its layout, still we can have good use of weapons (maybe railgun, nailgun, RL... are well placed). So if I regret its simplicity, it is mostly because of its appearence (no nice buildings to look at ;) ).
- ctf_gate1 is well made (I like its style), but gameplay is average, maybe there isn't enough space to fight, maybe it's more about avoiding people and hiding on some column (I'm not sure of the word) than using weapons to Woot :P
- ctf_compromise, fog prevents me from playing, I don't like to play with such reduced visibility. Try to remove it, then people may try it.
- ctf4ish is annoying mainly if there are dedicated campers who do their job well. This is different from good railers, even if I find its use not challenging. Otherwise It's great and I have much fun with rockets and air frags (the only map with which I can both play and enjoy spectacular shoots :p). I have fun both with standard ctf4ish and ctf4ishum1.
- I didn't like oasago at first, I felt it was too much about exhausting ourselves running and being fragged when arrived near the flag (so, a bit like what Hydronex can be even if smaller). But it seems in the last games I played there wasn't that much defense, or it was interesting to fight it. Maybe removing the mines helped. I appreciate the gameplay, but maybe lightning gun is too powerful. I suppose I'd consider fun its use if I practiced it more.
- cbctf1 : lol, servers using it are desert, so they are used by people who learn to play online. It hurts too much to make the way to the flag while jumping, too great distance to achieve, not intense enough gameplay.
- ctf2 : it's an okay map, even if a bit limited to catching the railgun, as people are forced to make high and long jumps, they can't be shoot easily with other weapons. Only one RL at each side also makes people less keen on using it. (the central RL on ctf4ish, and one at each side, is a better layout).
- czestxctf ; they seem well made, and both are okay for gameplay, I don't even know what to say about them ;) Maybe I should play them more.
- delta, does this map ever exist ? :P I rarely see it on servers ; It's confusing at first, mainly about moving all the time, and pray other players gone mad so that they lost their way, frag the few ones you meet... but fights may be quite simple (you only walk on one space platform all along, and you can't move much : kill or be killed :P)
- islandctf : erf, too long way to the flag.
- oa_spirit3 : hard to judge, quite a nice map, but still I think I'd prefer if there were more battlefields. Think oasago, anywhere you are you can choose a weapon and have a good fight with it.
- Oh I nearly forgot pul1ctf :D, I mostly appreciate the textures (half joking, I like the style), interesting frag possibilities, interesting paths to follow while strafing and eventually rocketjumping (it surprisingly seems easy to do and can become quite a short way to the flag, distances between jumps are well measured). Tiers are well used. If you see an enemy coming on a different tier, you can easily take some path to make sure you'll meet him, and not only look at him with your poor weapon and angle which make it hard to hit (thinking of ctf_gate1).

Oh crap, It may be easy to say I don't enjoy, but hard to formalize critics, and harder to positively describe what a map should be.

I know most admins of the server you're refering to. About tarpit, do not confuse automatic kicks (which were sometimes annoying indeed) and ones made by admins.
If this is a human kick, it could both be a matter of cacacacamping (as this is hard to define, maybe they tend to judge a bit too quick) but also of attitude (if you're a bit rude, language as a barrier too, it's sad but maybe you're more friendly with users who use your mother tongue, and less friendly if you hardly understand the foreign language). If you really try to discuss I doubt they'd be that close-minded though. But I'd say I agree as I disapprove the trend to kick in the overall.

As for OA's low popularity ...  simple answer : overall quality ?
People who are interested in Q3's gameplay have enough of Q3 ? (Does World of padman use Q3 engine ? I have no idea of their popularity. What about Alien Arena ? IIRC both of these games had specific and maybe better graphics, but maybe they spoiled gameplay).
OA also has some specific audience due to the fact it is opensource. I think I'd have paid very few attention to OA if it wasn't, because I almost didn't give a try to other freewares.
Maybe people are also unaware of the fact Q3's gameplay rox! You just have to check what kind of FPS most people play nowadays, it's not hardcore gaming, and they are less inovative in gameplay terms.
Or maybe there's nothing we can do about it, except maybe a bit more of promotion. OA has to make its way to gaming communities, computer users communities, it's nearly about marketing here, or rather : informing people about what OA is.

Probably repeating some previous comments but no harm done..

1) Yes.. water = just awful. Same with lava and other obstacles. It is a multi-player game and you can do enough self damage as it is without falling down a stupid hole 5 times in a game because your not familiar with the map. lava isnt so bad providing you can easily avoid it. It's no coincidence that the maps with water and void spots aren't popular on q3.

2) Playing custom maps I notice noone likes the multi-level vertical maps which are cramped. There is one on the corkscrew server but can't remember the name. It has very nice detail yet is horrible playing, even in ffa.

3) TDM maps are usually medium sized but you can get to each position very quickly. q3dm7 is a good example. You learn with a few games where the rocket launcher room is and obvious places like the dungeon. It is simple to navigate without too many obstacles in your path. When there are less people.. you find that players can still play on the map and they might hang around the bridge where the lava is so that two players arent running around the same circle. I use teamoverlay often but it seems useless in most maps I've tried.

4) I don't think there's too a deal with the OA maps. I think the point people make is that there are tons of customs maps available. Alot of these happen to be crap.. If you tried about 20 random ones there might be only a couple that are liked. Same will apply with OA too.

5) It's not as simple as it seems when trying to explain why a map is poor.. because alot of them people havent given a proper try. I remember hating q3dm13 for ages but once I realised how to get to places then i changed my opinion. It's one of the few vertical maps I like.

6) As someone pointed out. The name structure is non-exsistant. Even the levelshots are misleading.. one of the first maps on single player looks like a ctf map. If I could remember map names then I would be more inclined to post feedback.

7) A 'new map' server is needed and people can pile in and post comments. I'm sure people would join the server and give them a good try. Disable voting cos sure as hell it'll be a ctf server with osago2 before long.  I can provide a server/s if needed but cannot manage them. I'm sure there's no shortage of people that can put up a test server.

8) Yea they Q1 maps... I hope these dissapear. Just awful

A very optimistic estimate. I should know. During the years I have downloaded and tested several hundred custom maps for Quake, Unreal Tournament and Quake III Arena and for each game maybe found 15-20 which are really good. The amount of junk in the map archives is amazing.


I second that. I can also provide a test server (not 24/7, only on weekends) if needed.


Not much chance until there is something to replace them with. And IMHO it will be a loooong time :-( You know why...

i try to like this game but its damn hard,..yesterday my whole config was gone back to default for all gametypes,.....wtf!?!?!
Dont get me started on the maps,..all good maps dont get played or get voted.

ctf wich i like is mostly owned by the less then average players who dont know how to play a teamgame, i guess this game was made for new players in the fps genre or something. gamesettings get worse every so called update,..input is good output is so so
Its not a good game for competitive gameplay or exciting games,..
many when loosing go spec  or leave then teams get all screwed up
I think i go back to quake or pacman,...that bleep bleep sound gets me blood rushing.
or i play xbattle servers and hang there till someone joins, good games i had on there.
btw my xbattle config is still ok. mods rule! :D

i heard warsow is hard to play ,..anyone here plays there if so can you tell me a little about it? i see many servers there wich are always full very very popular so it seems.

Oa will die out i think anyway because well,..you kno why  ,..  hint: egotistical
to bad

Jack Thompson might still have a warsow server up. I tried it but I was too good at it :S (i wish - i got fed with dying and never played it again).

Yes my game crashed and my config reverted back to default. Feature or bug?

You can play xbattle using quake. I do. Only thing is that 081 is on protocol 71.. so you'd need to compile ioquake3 for it to work or get someone else to do it. :D There is no client/mismatch errors or anything.. works perfectly.

It should also be pointed out that the common people do not have the privelage to contact the admin here. Perhaps it would be useful if there was some contact list.. even if it needs to be passed up the chain. :S

The concern is that quite alot of people will assume that their contribution is not welcome. It isnt nice to spend time writing a message to be kicked with a message..  'your not important enough to speak to me'. Thats how it will come accross to many ppl.

Maybe there should be a 'map bitch' :D  someone who you can freely pass along feedback without feeling unworthy.

I dont know much about maps to be honest.. but I would certainly try to help if I could, and I'm sure lots of other people would too.. even if it's just opinions or feedback.

Big thanks to Peter Silie and Cacatoes,
I appreciate critics that help to improve game content (maps in my case) as playtesting is a difficult task and is not well done in the OA community. What you say will influence future changes of the game.

but one thing to notice: your textureskills are the best (imho. and i just know the ctf-maps)! maybe you can make 2.0-Versions of the following maps:
inyard: reduce the way between the flags. remove the lava on the bottom and remove the pillars in the flagroom. this could help to make the map faster and playable for groups in a range of 6-16 ppl (try map now with 6 ppl: you never see an enemy;-)).
compromise: try it without fog. i think that the map should have a chance!
gate1: remove pillars and make platforms instead of them?

i do not know if it will help, but maybe someone can setup a maptestserver? the server should have the newest releasecandidates of maps to come. if we have some luck, the community will test them and report issues at the forum.

btw: can someone do a remake of reptctf3 and reptctf11? these maps seems simple to create (for me as a non-mapper) but are very funny to play. if you do not know them, you can play them at the evil|arena.

I was also thinking of some test servers, especially if all maps are GPL I already set a mirror for http downloading.
I've got two servers which are always empty, ping isn't the best, but that should be more than okay to test maps.

I'll work at it soon I think ;)

 I downloaded a custom map from lvlword which was one of the good ones and was suprised to see that several people had spent 1-2 years on it. Their goal was to deliver a perfect multiplayer map.

Is it not possible for more than one person to dedicate efforts to each map and go through them one by one. Each map is tested by playing it on a test server and it might help other people making maps at different levels after sharing ideas. That would also help get people playing on a map at one time. Just a thought.

Also gives players an oppertunity to kick the map makers ass in their own creation :P

A few things...

ps37ctf is lacking in details, yes. I tried earlier to add buildings in the distance, but with the particular sky that ps37ctf uses, it won't work the way I want unless I add yet another large wall around those distant buildings (which I don't want). Other skies look like crap. I'll keep trying though. Changed around the floor texture and some walls for ps37ctf3.

Cosmo's ctf_gate1 is a good map if you ignore the weapon layout. The biggest issue is that the chaingun is right next to the flag. It's much unfair to walk near the flag and have someone spawn, grab chaingun, and rape you. Oh, if you do make it out, someone spawns and rapes you with chaingun in a few seconds anyway. I think that the chaingun should be where nailgun is (No chaingun ammo right next to chaingun) and shotgun near flag. Weapon/item layout could be better. Mostly, having the chaingun so very available is the problem. It's too powerful to have 2 seconds away right when you spawn.

ctf_compromise could use the fog for its theme, but seriously not so dense. It's unplayable at that density. By the way, it needs some clipping around the flag, I have fun going up there and walking under the level.

@cacatoes: it would be great if you could do a maptestserver! thx

Huh? The OA's Quake maps aren't from the single player campaign (well other than house of cheesethon). They're from the special "Deathmatch Arena" episode. They were specifically designed for deathmatch.

I for one love these maps. Whoever retextured DM3 and DM5 did a beautiful job. I think id was very generous to free these.

One of the things I find that bothers me is this.

I'm in a level and I'm shooting at someone. He's shooting at me and when I move to shoot at him from a different angle, he's still shooting at me from where I was a few seconds ago. His ping is fine. The problem is he still sees me in my previous position because his config is the default one.

The default config is meant for computers that are like 10 years old. No one has a dialup 28.8 modem anymore (heck, dialup ISP's hardly exist anymore). No one has 128 MB of ram anymore. No one needs the game to run at 80 FPS or whatever. A newcomer comes and he's frustrated because people on his screen literally disappear and re - appear behind him because his FPS is too slow relative to the person in front of him who already knows how to adjust his FPS. He shoots and he misses the person he shoots at because by the time he sees the person to shoot them, in actuality, the person is already 10 feet away and has fraged like 10 other people. I have to explain to everyone how to set their settings and even then I have to explain to half of these people how to respond to my questions (ie: asking them what their FPS is) by pressing the ~ button. The default config should be adjusted. The settings should automatically be at DSL/LAN/Cable. maxfps should be set to 125 by default. cl_maxpackets should be like 125 or whatever. Rate should be maybe 25000 with sv_fps maybe 40.

Also, players should have the option to vote the bots out without having them come back. Sometimes the bots just overcrowd the map and other times people just want to play without them. If people want the bots again, they can vote them back in, or perhaps the bots can automatically come back if no human is in the server. Or, maybe the bots can automatically come back when the level changes or when that particular round ends and a new one starts, in which case, the people can vote them out again.  If one person really wants to play against bots he can always play in single player mode.

naa.. its good to have the choice. also server admins can set the range so it's no big deal

Maxpackets at 125? I am a happy user of maxpackets 40, my ping went down by 15-30 %, you only really need 125 for defrag... Otherrwise I agree, the default config should be better (snaps, maxfps, rate, maybe an installer that wuold ask ppl how is their connection)

There is an option in the gamemenu that asks you what your connection is try the Network option in system.
Many settings that influence the connection shoudl stay as they are imo, simply because, not everybody has the same connection.
Player from country x  with 125 maxpackets  and a player form country y with 40 maxpackets can have a smooth game on the same server. it all depends on system and location.
So setting these cvars to other valeus has no use @ all simply because people still need to set these to there own location and connectionspeed.

Snaps 40 i think benefits all players from anywhere so this could be default 40 instead of 20

Best thing is to have a good tutorial that explains what a setting does so people can adjust cvars to theyre specs and liking.
there is a good links for this to be found In topic Usefull links in the general section.
But i also will put it here

http://q3eu.com/site/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=67

In fact, you can decide which maps you want to be votable in your server with g_VoteMaps, which gametypes you want to be votables with g_VoteModes, and which variables shoud be votable with g_VoteNames.

An example:

Another thing I think we should be able to do is pause the game (ie: go into spectator mode) without losing all of our frags (say someone needs to go to answer the phone real quick). In order to prevent people from going into spectator mode only when they're about to get hit, there should be like a 12 second delay from the time they hit pause and the time they go into spectator mode (and another 12 second delay to enter back into the game) and they should lose one frag whenever they go into spectator mode with the intent of not losing all of their frags.

being able to pause the game is a good idea in official games between clans/teams, but i really think it will be misused on public servers and in the ffa mode.

While I think my last post does greatly reduce pause abuse, after thinking about it now it seems like a bit of a hack. I think a better thing to do is, instead of having the person lose a frag when they pause the game (they should not), make it such that as soon as they hit the spectator button there is a timer that counts to twelve. After the very next time they get fragged after the 12 second mark they go into spectator mode without losing any frags. That way, the person who fragged them gets his/her frag counted towards his/her score making it impossible for someone to evade getting fragged by simply pausing the game. At the same time, the person who paused the game by going into spectator mode does not lose his score. It's a win - win situation, if I'm chasing you and you know you're going to get fragged by me soon so you hit the pause button to avoid me fragging you, the game will not pause for you until AFTER I frag you (or until after someone else frags you). If I frag you, that frag gets counted towards my score (or if someone else frags you, it gets counted towards their score). Also, once you are in spectator mode, you should not be able to re - enter the game until after 12 seconds of being in spectator mode.

Just posting to say... if you want OA to be better, help sago and others to test new binaries (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1933.0) and OAE stuff (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.0), or us to test maps in the beta test server (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2630.0), instead of just whining and say "OA sux so b4d, m4ps 4re s0 4wful and 1t w1ll suck for3v3r"... ::)

Maybe a good way to make OA more popular would be to make it less prominent in the complete suckass department.  ;)

==>

I think Neon_Knight, the big problem with oa is that the developers (or should I say fromhell?) don't want the game to go in a competitive direction, or are actualy opposed to this, so helping out isn't really the issue - and there are enough good third-party maps for the quality of oa's maps not to matter too much, other than some of them maybe getting played more than they deserve.

I know of that, I try to avoid to post in some threads (I read all the threads) to avoid problems I don't want.
But I hate those plane-"OAsux" comments coming from people who have never helped with the project.

Anyways, I'll stop posting in this thread.

Perhaps OA should do an "internal fork" and have one version for the ultra-competitive folks ("OA Pro") which forces the minimal style (flat textures, vertex lighting, force models, etc), and have the normal version for casual for-fun players which lacks those options i.e. it has nice graphics and visual variety.

How about a normal version with good gameplay and performance. I prefer lightmap and I make good use of shadows to judge jump distances etc. I also like the dynamic lights but when the background is too dark I like to see the models. Would be nice to have an ultra competitive normal version. I can get detail and maintain 125.. 5 years ago I might have considered minimal detail if it improved performance.

The casual-for-fun players are likely to be beginners, who have no clue how much of a disadvantage they have with bouncy fps etc. You dont get that with q3. I, like many others have to spend endless amounts of time changing stuff in system graphics and now sago has acknowledged the problem I found where you may need to toggle the the driver setting. The casual-for-fun players are likely to improve, then it will be more difficult to sweep the gameplay and performance  issues under the carpet

Openarena is 100% free, so nothing's keeping anyone from forking up a competitive flavor of it, which is meant to go head to head with q3/ql. Something that apparently doesnt interest leilel too much.

DAMN I WONDER (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?board=64.0)!!!

Fair enough.  BTW, can we expect to play that 0A486 anytime soon?

No

...and this is why, people, OA isnt popular.

No it's not. The flat competitive gaming scene is so niche they don't really make anything popular.

(Also popularity is not my goal, it's only a resulting side effect if there is)

openarena

The mmorpg and fps demographics don't overlap much though.

Too bad. Hmm... FPS multiboxing... ;)

Also don't underestimate the people who download games just to play them only over the LAN. Not everyone wants to game anonymously among anonymous online. It's not the same as a social gathering.

OA does have high download numbers (most popular file on moddb for quite some time)

That's a sad fact U_U

It seems that, in these times, the more easy a game become, the more growing are the possibilities that it become a massive game, and more growing are the possibilities that a big number of idiots will jump to it.

If you understand spanish, this is a proof (http://www.linuxjuegos.com/2009/02/23/torneo-1on1-de-openarena/). (Scroll down to the 3rd. comment) I'm lazy to translate now, but it pisses me off. Seems like he wants every tournament (no matter how amateur it is) to be like WCG, CPL, ESWC, etc...

I think Open Arena is popular :p

openarena

Nemesis is the only non-Arg server in which I join, and I didn't have any problem there, maybe because I know more than half of the people which plays there. :P I'm spectating almost all the time there because of ping & lag issues too. -.-

I didn't tried other servers yet, but maybe will happen which you've said, or not, I don't know. Which servers do you join?

openarena

Well, I can guarantee you that your assumption, at least in Nemesis, didn't work. :) And since we aren't too much on OA (maybe that's a good thing, since populated & famous games have loads of idiots there -.- and can happen with both propietary and non-propietary ones) a populated server by now isn't a bad thing on OA.
I don't know, the thing is that is something recommendable that you have to learn to play the game before getting to play online, if you don't want to get blamed by the others. :D

i've seen games more 'popular' than OA with a huge forum bigger than this and much wider promotion, that have a almost non-existant playerbase the week after release.

*cough*Goldeneye Source*cough*Insects Infestation*cough*Dragonball Source*cough*

and all of these are HL2 mods which is said to be for the "gold mine" of a big gamer audience, more surefire for success than any other game or standalone. :D

With the exception of Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, Day of Defeat, Natural Selection, (HL series) Urban Terror, CPMA and OSP, [Q3] (and I know I'm missing some other popular mods) I didn't see another mod on other games being popular. I guess we were talking about full games, not mods. :P

well you missed out noghost..

within the last 8 hours... visitors:  5997  i wonder why

---==---

My additions to that list would be Mental Omega for Red Alert 2 Yuri's Revenge and Heroes III Wake of Gods.

Besides, OpenArena good as-is, just the masses haven't found it out.

this thread fails
it is popular:
http://www.moddb.com/games/openarena ( Rank 14 of 902 | Visits 306,796 (155 today) )
( but those haters give it low ratings it :( )

its not popular because there's a web hit counter on the front page

lol jk :P

If the single player game was fun, more people would want to have servers. In some countries there is no local server, or there is but not enough people go there at a given moment.
I would like bots that were more like regular human players. They should strafe jump especially in high difficulty.
However they shouldn't have the "kill automatically with railgun" ability. That breaks the game when playing normal maps offline in normal mode.

Here is why OA is not popular, i can sum it up in 2 words

Urban Terror

That's right I said it....Urban Terror.

Urban Terror is very popular and many, many people play it.  You should also.

A few more reasons it is not popular.

1.  Quake 3 Arena - still Rules the Roost (and always has) - get it off eBay today..spend the $3.00

2.  Quakelive - could be the heir to q3a...the next generation q3a!

3.  Other great free games like Nexuiz, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Warsow, Tremulous, America's Army, Postal 2: Share The Pain multiplayer - did i mention Urban Terror? These games are all more complete and polished, because they are out of beta.  I know all of these are not GPL'd but as a player i do not care.

4.  Lead Developer of OA publicly flaming the guys from the ioQuake3 Team, and calling them stupid.  They have done more already for free GNU gaming than OA ever will.

5.  Severe fragmentation of the player base across the  player base, due to to many servers that need update to the current release.  The people running the older versions of OA on their servers are to blame.  Update your server, make it private or take it offline.  This is not the OA Devs fault.  It is poor server admins/operators being stupid.  Running an old version of a beta game makes NO Sense....none.

6.  Linux Repositories not Always having the most Current Release available in a Timely fashion, thus many Noobs download OA and have trouble getting on the right servers,  Again not the OA devs fault, this one is to blame on the package maintainer

7.  In game server browser sucks, just like the one in Q3A.  I personally use Qtracker on my windows machine and XQF on my linux machine to find a server to play on.  If you are using the In-Game server browser...STOP Today! Download qtracker or xqf

Those are the reasons i believe OA is not popular. 

I have no complaints about the Maps, Models, Skins , Sounds., Menu's, etc.  OA is still in beta, its Free, its Fun, and I like it.
By the time OA gets to 1.0 it will be Awesome.

Game Not Over,
SlippJigg

openarena

lol is that what they've told you? Remember it was Timbo provoking the attacks, and it wasn't the first time he's done it (I do not take kindly to cyber stalkers that evade bans and seek me in unrelated channels). Still maintains a topic about it even. The dead horse should be the ioq3 logo at this point.

Oh and i've never called anyone on ioq3 stupid, but i've been insulted by them more though.

Urban Terror is only 'popular' because it's the closest thing they can get to a free Counter-Strike clone without going to the South Korean nickelanddime cs clones.

why isn't this thread in Club Nub? Popularity is relative

nope popularity is about numbers thus it can not be relative. but popularity doesn't mean anything... popularity is temporary

Funny concept. At which number is a piece of software considered popular?

numbers of popularity - rule of thumb: it's popular when i and three of my friends use it.

42 of course...

So then OA is popular!
Sure, which makes the idea of popularity relative.

If I was new to OA and saw this thread title it would deter me from playing it. Which is why it should be in club nub along with all the other "OA sux" posts

Unfortunately it seems to be getting less popular all the time. Any given day there are only a few servers up (VILE and BUTTER) and those have very few players. OA is a great effort and I appreciate. Unfortunately of the few players there are those few who delight in crushing folks rather than just winning so the fun wears off pretty quick and I head off to UT2004 or just play single player. Unfortunately, the bots are better sports. Thanks to VILE and BUTTER as well for providing their servers.

yeah well all ut2004 really has is dm-rankin servers, sniper-only servers, torlan servers, and horrible childish monster invasion servers with stupid rpgs and golden mp5 +1s

I love ut2004, it's my fav UT and my all-time fav FPS, but I have to agree with Lei... I played it during 4 years and I ended hating Rankin for the HUGE quantity of times it was voted. I know is a great map (In fact is awesome) but I ended hating it because everyone wanted to play that map over and over and over and over again... -.- (Sometimes 1on1-Roughinery, Compressed, Under_LE, and some other map was involved too)

I've never played ONS as I would wished, since everyone wanted DM and CTF... DM and CTF... DM and CTF... -.- and in CTF it was always... FP-DuelingKeeps, GrendelKeep, Dueling, Grendel, some Thorns (!) some Romra (!!) and then back to Grendel, Dueling, some FaceClassic and then back to Dueling, Grendel... -.-!!!

openarena

Urban Terror (or Turban Error :D) is popular, has better graphic, and lots of things, but it was developed by Frozen Sands which is good team of programmers, unlike OA team, And, it, together with Americas Army, and other games doesn't go together with OA. Urban Terror is realistic game with logo "when q3 meets reality", while OA is opposite, OA is game with funny, unexisting characters, funny sounds, and is much more about skill. So Urban Terror won't take people from OA.I know, I'm admin on Urban Terror server myself (yeah, like |TXC| Neon_Knight said many players can be bad, lots of team killers, noobs, blockers, newbes, and of course, cheaters (aimbot, wallhack) while i haven't seen any in OA) and I come to play OA becouse i'm quite irritated of headshots i get :(. These games are different, and aren't to be compared. 


That's in other topic (OpenArena vs QuakeLive (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2891.0))

Again, these games can't be compared

They are at least 100 programmers who are paid for what they do, fromhell is one (with help of others) and spends his/hers/its free time so we can have fun

You said it, it's servers/hosters foult not OAs

Hope Ubuntu 9.04 will have 0.81 in its repository ^^ (More 4 days to go! Yay!)

True, it isn't much, but as i said in other topic (Empty servers (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2943.0)) less servers would make it usable.



Why I think Oa isnt popular:
1) Its not yet 1.0 so people maybe don't trust it.
2) Skilled players often own unskilled so much that they can easily go away. You must know about q3 when coming here.
3) There are no "ads" about OA anywhere (Maybe we can help it, just create topic about it on forums you are registered to, put link on your site)
4) Lots of people don't know how to extract .zip and run right starter (openarena.exe, openarena,i386,openarena.x86_64, oa_ded. exe, etc.) because they don't know what that mean.
5) Windows users have no way of finding this game (they have q3a which is mostly same, and don't have something like repository where they can find games).
6) There are still bugs, so people come to forum saying "Help!!! I have a bug! Can you fix it for me?" without reading this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1890.0)

It does

It's better if you haven't played ONS, It's just like CTF with lots of campers. It never ends before coundown comes to 0, and than draining. Only if one team is so much stronger so they win in 3 minutes.

what the hell kind of logic is this

Urban Terror didn't start from nothing but the source in 2005. Its content isnt free nor versatile to work with either (most of its best assets were done by hobbyist modelers in max around 02/03 anyhow, ditto for Tremulous and even World of Padman)

Lack of popularity hasn't been because of the character variety. The forcemodels cvar fixes the 'weeaboo' issue.

also

how do you judge that when no one but the team has seen a single line of urban terror game code?

Uff, i thought i have to say that there, i didn't mean they were better programmers than you are, i said about team which works together.

That unfortunately happens all too frequently. Too many players are unwilling to change up teams when they are lopsided in skill. I think an easy way to solve this would simply to have the server randomize the teams each map. So instead of carrying over the previous blue team and the previous red team every map it would just randomly create fresh new teams. At least with something like that the skilled vs unskilled problem would only happen occasionally instead of 5 or 6 maps in a row. Maybe something like this already exists and it's just a server side setting that can be turned on? If that is the case then I think server admins should turn it on. Otherwise, if it doesn't exist, I think if it did exist it would go a long way in helping to reduce this problem.

I am encouraged by the development of from what I've seen, an awesome product.  I will download it when I get home however, I am hesitant.  I have read a list of mods that are compatible but I have to ask myself, is the true mod compatible?  BFG and all?  From what I read on wikipedia all the weapons are not included as of yet.  This really would be the finishing touch in my opinion.  If wikipedia was lying to me, feel free to flame me

If you're counting Q3 weapons + TA ones, in 0.8.1 all of them are included, (BFG too) but there's a lot of whine about the three TA weapons and the BFG and there were claims and reclaims to remove them from the game, something which IMHO is ridiculous.

BTW, I have to reply at this...

I don't think gametypes which aren't DM-TDM-CTF-CA shouldn't be played. The only (or maybe I should say the best?) way to learn how to play properly those gametypes is by playing it, theory don't serve without practice in this case. (And I hate the "only ways" to do things)

I like Harvester a lot, for example, but most players don't care about it and those which like to play it online won't find anything at all.

i've never tried harvester - but then again i can't pick it in the server browser. i get lots of other game modes if i try. but according to sago, over in the openarena expanded thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.msg24407#msg24407), it will function in upcoming versions. good things :)

hi
Is your answer to this came all from sago? I just want to know.,



_________________
Indianapolis Web Design (http://www.slingshotseo.com/)

hmm, dunno. i didn't really understand your question?

Spam bot looking for "according to x" ? :D