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OpenArena Contributions => Development => Topic started by: Cacatoes on December 24, 2008, 08:25:53 am



Title: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Cacatoes on December 24, 2008, 08:25:53 am
Yop,

Particularly in allrockets mode, and instagib,
I (and some other players too) think that these features would improve gameplay.
- Having the ability to set "no self damage" when shooting rockets.
- Having the ability to jump with railing on the ground.

It's all game-logic side, isn't it ?

And oh, It doesn't matter much, but it seems g_gravity is reset whereas g_speed is kept when map reloads.

That's all ;)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: chaoticsoldier on December 24, 2008, 08:29:58 am
I don't know about those. I like the fact that you sacrifice health for the benefit of the rocket jump. Rail jumping would be too similar to the laser jumping in Nexuiz.

I'd vote for friendly fire in all team game modes, but  idiots would ruin the game.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 24, 2008, 11:46:35 am
I'd vote for friendly fire in all team game modes, but  idiots would ruin the game.
Well, if they're newbs, they should learn where to fire.
If they aren't, they should be killed. ;D


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: PsYthe on December 24, 2008, 01:19:14 pm
I think the game is too fast (and some maps too tight) for friendly fire, even non-retards will hit teammates sometimes


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: fufinha on December 24, 2008, 04:00:06 pm
i'm a semi-tard and I wouldn't be able to resist hitting ppl in the ass with  rail gun if I know it's going to make them jump :)

I dont think I've ever played on a single server once, where there is team damage. Must be for a reason :D

No self damage works well on FFA servers with weapons. People like it when they can rocket jump and beginners dont end up with minus scores. On big maps defrag people are kinda hard to hit though :D

I think one of the UFT (ultra freeze tag) versions source is available. (maybe version 1.5).


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: RudyRailer on December 24, 2008, 04:13:08 pm
in ctf friendly fire isnt good, you cant push your flagcarrier to the flag.
Instead u  hear  "FFS stop killing me all the time!!" hehe

But why would u like teamdamage on teamgames cacatoes?


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: sago007 on December 24, 2008, 05:31:17 pm
Elimination, CTF Elimination and LMS have the possibility to disable self damage so code wise it is not that hard.

However I am somewhat reluctant to give these possibilities in base game types. I fear that the different settings on different servers will make it harder for new players to enter the game world because just as they think they have learned the game some rules change. There are mods that allows changing of all those variables and it is very popular among players but often a circus for new players to enter.

You have gotten me to think about it again but I believe I would need some kind of filter on servers and more online players to make it work.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: fufinha on December 24, 2008, 05:44:07 pm
Good point. The servers on 1.32 ended up like that.. too many mods were hosting confusing gametypes then the coders started merging them, but that made it worse. Maybe the instagib mode maybe have the railjump option and no self damage?


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Cacatoes on December 25, 2008, 10:48:56 am
Maybe it's more a matter of lack of information, or the information is unclear, rather than a problem with the variety of features inside vanilla OA. Like for the engine, it's full of tweaking possibilities, still it's hidden so every player has time to get familiar with it.
Having an external browser (some OA launcher) with right filters may help. For expl, it would first hide non-vanilla servers, it could detect if we already have the map played on the server ... and maybe it could display in a more friendly way rules specificities, in how they differ from our own arbitrary standards ("/!\ This server runs all rocket mode, "/!\ This server has friendly fire set to on") ...

The ingame browser is quite confusing, actually it can list servers according to their game mode but does it wrong (there is no "one flag ctf" server, however every ctf server is listed in it).
Moreover we have to switch between numerous game modes, maybe sticking to the 5 main, and adding a sixth "special" category would be more meaningful (I couldn't tell clearly tell what difference there is between elimination, double domination and so on, so these names are not meaningful).
Also, personally I never use "only humans", or "hide full", or "show empty". I deduce these informations from the number of players displayed. I don't know by advance if I want to join a server which has people on it, if it's full maybe I can wait a bit so that a slot gets freed, well ... This is where XQF handles these things better : it can wait for a slot, it can list players, sort by maps (which is for me a criteria)... things the ingame browser may never do. Some other people may find these filters handy, so my remark is contestable.

I think the main worry for newcomers is to be able to join a server without configuration pain, and eventually without getting owned too quick, so that they have time to appreciate their online experience.

Maybe server admins have their responsibilities too. It could be nice to have a server with limited map rotation, for expl oa_bases maps ; a good ping, while avoiding maps on which experienced player usually rush, and clearly identified as is, i.e. "New players CTF server".

Also, I'm not sure but maybe Single Player mode is a bit boring, even for new players. They get familiar with OA's gameplay, but there isn't much interest in playing it. Maybe some "Training mode", with didactical maps, could help. I was imagining a map like the popular defrag one which has several teleporters in its hall : you choose what you want to learn about. They could learn CTF basics (I've seen players who don't really know what to do with a flag, or feel quite disoriented), some use of weapons (even some small tricks), explaining strafe jumping, maybe explaining some specificities about weapons ... well, properly training ... because nobody reads manuals.

These are just hints and off-topic ideas, sorry about that ;)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: sago007 on December 25, 2008, 01:36:52 pm
About features.
I am currently working on the following:
OpenArena protocol handler (so links like openarena://0.8.1/join/82.211.202.16 can work)
Local stats recording that only tracks online matches so players can follow there own progress even if they are getting p0wn3d.
Vote menu.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2008, 02:34:21 pm
If I could model, I'll do models for Invulnerability and Grappling Hook. :/


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Cacatoes on December 25, 2008, 02:37:10 pm
These are scoops :)

Didn't know you had a server.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on December 26, 2008, 12:30:33 pm
I may try and build a Grappling hook model sometime - Have to see how time and oppurtunity work out.

Also, I was thinking that you could perhaps have the No/Less Self Damage and Rail Jump be options the server owner could choose to implement. I'd imagine Rail Jump would be less impressive.

EDIT - Ok Here's a couple sketches of Invul and Grapple. Sorry about the quality, didn't bring my scanner on vacation with me.

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/imag0363.jpg) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=imag0363.jpg)

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/imag0364.jpg) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=imag0364.jpg)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: chaoticsoldier on December 27, 2008, 01:43:42 am
Local stats recording that only tracks online matches so players can follow there own progress even if they are getting p0wn3d.

That's great. :)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: RudyRailer on December 27, 2008, 08:17:27 am
No self damage+railjump  is available in settings  serverside so no problem there
The Instagib corkscrew server has railjump available.

About  making a training mode for new players is a nice idea.
However there are many many many many instruction video's/demos on strafejumping rocketjumping etc, wich can be practiced offline.

And all those new players how get screamed @ for camping and for doing silly things while having the flag,... has no need for training ability in single player mode imo.
We the people who know how to play the game should help new players better in instructing what to with the flag etc.
Or how to change settings  like fov and snaps, packets,..the basics  @ least thats what i do.
When i started playing quake i got a lot of help from players while playing the gameand there was no need for me to stroal around the  look things up for meselfe.
Now i sometimes say to players whe ask me something ,just to spectate me and then i show them what to do/not to do or how to aim those sort of things
And on all occasions i hear from them ,.."great thats better then looking it up" or just a simple "Aah so thats how its done".
I mean, why the need for elaborate training features while we can explain things to them ourselfes??
Or is it easier for people to sit behind there computers and yell @ new players and kickvote them off for not being able to play the game??



Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 27, 2008, 08:48:16 am
I may try and build a Grappling hook model sometime - Have to see how time and oppurtunity work out.

Also, I was thinking that you could perhaps have the No/Less Self Damage and Rail Jump be options the server owner could choose to implement. I'd imagine Rail Jump would be less impressive.

EDIT - Ok Here's a couple sketches of Invul and Grapple. Sorry about the quality, didn't bring my scanner on vacation with me.

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/imag0363.jpg) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=imag0363.jpg)

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/imag0364.jpg) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=imag0364.jpg)

I like that grapple model, it's very cool. ^^
I like how Invulnerability looks as an item. I was wondering how it can look when player activates it.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: PsYthe on December 27, 2008, 01:17:22 pm
Maybe a pink-red dome? Even cooler if it shifts to red as it gets closer to running out.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Gerbil on December 27, 2008, 03:13:49 pm
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2614.0
rail jumping!
It would be fantastic in my opinion, if we had railjumping in the rails only mod :D


Remove selfdamage from rocket jumping would be good, it gives the player the option to rocket jump. If you take damage, the player will be discouraged from rocket jumping, thus discouraged from options. By taking off self damage, you allow the fight to be brought into another dimension :D


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on December 27, 2008, 10:34:49 pm
(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_2x3.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_2x3.png)

Grapple Model so far

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_3x1.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_3x1.png)

Invunerabiliy - Finished model (half-model, untexured)

Now comes the fun part - Actually puing textures on the SOB's. Acually, anyone who has worked with wings 3d knows it's probably the most grueling part.

I was thinking about how should the powerup make someone look. Honestly, I don't know. A liquescent greenish field wih glowing red eyes around the player, perhaps?


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: RudyRailer on December 28, 2008, 02:36:51 pm
(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_2x3.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_2x3.png)

Grapple Model so far

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_3x1.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_3x1.png)

Invunerabiliy - Finished model (half-model, untexured)

Now comes the fun part - Actually puing textures on the SOB's. Acually, anyone who has worked with wings 3d knows it's probably the most grueling part.

I was thinking about how should the powerup make someone look. Honestly, I don't know. A liquescent greenish field wih glowing red eyes around the player, perhaps?

Give player Blue(no other powerups give blue grow) translucent  Angelwings the size of the whole model (sounds cory i kno but imo it will do the powerup justice.  maybe pulsating gold translucent color like a drop of water in a pond, not to fast pulsating though. :D

Thats what i was thinkin about when thinkin about that powerup.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2008, 02:50:36 pm
Remember that Invulnerability surrounds the player into a force-field which reflects almost all projectiles (Mines are the exception) while activated. (Is a holdable item like Teleporter or Medkit)

EDIT: Video. ^^

http://www.youtube.com/v/1YzHeLA5_vQ

Look at 1:05


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: RudyRailer on December 28, 2008, 04:20:58 pm
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2614.0
rail jumping!
It would be fantastic in my opinion, if we had railjumping in the rails only mod :D
Like on the corkscrew server? it has railjumping enabled (its instagib)
=ctf= clanarena.org server has rocketjumping without selfdamage IP 62.75.163.69:27960(new maprotation coming soon) :D


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on December 29, 2008, 10:10:00 pm
I'm going to have to take a break for a while - I'm going to be busy trying to find a job, but I'll try and get more done on it. Progress will be a bit slow though.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: sittingduck on December 30, 2008, 12:14:38 pm
Yop,

Particularly in allrockets mode, and instagib,
I (and some other players too) think that these features would improve gameplay.
- Having the ability to set "no self damage" when shooting rockets.
- Having the ability to jump with railing on the ground.

It's all game-logic side, isn't it ?

And oh, It doesn't matter much, but it seems g_gravity is reset whereas g_speed is kept when map reloads.

That's all ;)
Battle mod will let you do all this and much more right now.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on December 30, 2008, 09:17:37 pm
Well shit it would seem that i've forgotten how to do textures in wings3d


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: fufinha on December 30, 2008, 09:48:18 pm
Maybe some "Training mode", with didactical maps, could help. I was imagining a map like the popular defrag one which has several teleporters in its hall : you choose what you want to learn about.

aah.. jjm2. awesome vq3 map.  :D


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 01, 2009, 10:24:16 am
(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_5.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_5.png)

(http://img.imgcake.com/th/picture_2x5.png) (http://www.imgcake.com/my.php?image=picture_2x5.png)

Good news is vertex colors still work - I just can't figure out how to hook the two sides together on the invulnerability powerup


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 03, 2009, 02:48:50 pm
Anyone know where I can upload these?


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Snickersnack on January 03, 2009, 07:59:52 pm
Anyone know where I can upload these?

I like the grappler. :)

Are the files too big for an attachment?


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 03, 2009, 11:19:29 pm
Can I attach stuff here? Pretty small, they're wings files.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 04, 2009, 05:09:38 am
If file sizes are in KB, you should attach them here zipped. ;)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 04, 2009, 09:10:30 am
uh, I can't figure out how.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 04, 2009, 09:30:21 am
What? Zip the files or attach at the forum? :P


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 04, 2009, 10:37:03 am
What? Zip the files or attach at the forum? :P

Either. I don't have a zipping program since i'm on a Mac, and the files are small enough to attach as-is - but you need wings3d to use them.


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 04, 2009, 11:21:51 am
Hope this should work for you: http://www.haase-online.de/dirk/maczip/download/

And for file attaching, you should see this at the posting screen:

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/7141/help4youyd9.th.jpg) (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=help4youyd9.jpg)


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 04, 2009, 12:53:30 pm
Got it


Title: Re: feature request: no self damage + rail-jump
Post by: Noob Sauce on January 05, 2009, 01:42:02 pm
what no comments?