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I made a few major modifications to the general style & layout of oa_minia.
Personally I prefer it, but before I commit I'd like other peoples opinion.

(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1333/shot0004ld6.th.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0004ld6.jpg)

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3669/shot0005rv7.th.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0005rv7.jpg)

Modifications

- Some wall look destroyed.
- Added Two new doors to middle of map.
- Recompiled .aas due to modifications.

Below File contains .bsp & .aas.
http://uploading.com/files/XE6WPTW9/zmap.pk3.html (http://uploading.com/files/XE6WPTW9/zmap.pk3.html)

oa_minia is one of the maps I like from this game. :)
The new changes are very nice. Will you clip out the crack in the Rocket-Rail area? It can be rocket-jumped, so you can avoid to pass into the normal lower exit. Also the two new entrances to PG are nice as well, helps to keep the dynamic aspect of the map.

One thing I strongly suggest for this map, is to spread ammo instead of putting it right next to the weapon. Spreading ammo keeps the players moving on the map instead of camping at the same area waiting for the ammo to respawn. Also, I suggest to replace one of the two RLs for another weapon, or reduce the number of weapons in the map. I can suggest you to remove (or replace) the RL next to Railgun, since both weapons are very powerful.

Much better. Now the paths one can take around the map are much less linear and limited. The random cracks and breaks look nice. I don't think weapons need to be reduced or changed as Neon_Knight pointed out; I like the weapon layout, but the ammo could be in better spots. The oa_rpg map that comes with OA has its ammo in great spots; the ammo is far from the weapon it adds to.

Also, missbehaving has (or found) a website to upload and link your maps to:


Allowdl is much less hassle than the website you used.

- Clipped edges
- Moved some weapons about
- Moved Ammo to encourage movement.

http://allowdl.com/files/zmap.pk3

Wow.  Much faster map now!  I like.

oa_minia didn't flow well for me and I thought maybe
I was missing something.  No problem with that now.  I still
may be missing something in the original but it's clear that
with your modifications there's going to be a lot more action.

Also, you can now strafe jump lengthwise over the opening
in the floor of the central room and pick up that whole arc
of armor shards in one go.  Cool!

You can really get stacked fast, strafe-jumping through
that upper pathway from the RG ammo, RA, armor
shards over the opening, to the RG, etc., down to the RL.
Such are the rewards of jumping skill!  Time and play will
tell whether that's too much.  After some practice it was
pretty easy alone.  It'll be harder in a crowd.

And then there's the couple of extra camping spots added
(cough).  Neon Knight's hinted at one in his remark about
clipping the crack in the wall.  Once you've RJed there, you
can also step onto the near banner support to camp.  There's
another new spot in the other similar room, but I'll leave
that one (and the other similar ones in the original) to others
to talk about if they see fit.

Don't know that I object to them particularly.  The camper must
pay a health/armor price to get to them, the camper is
exposed and players will know to look for campers there.
Time and play will tell.

- Modified some ground textures
- Added pillar to one of the small sections of the map.
- Re-compiled with patch shadows
- Adjusted lighting so grounds textures weren't overly bright.

http://allowdl.com/files/zmaps.pk3

Two thumbs up from me. Those entrances to the upper level add so much to the map. I thought it was enjoyable before, but I like it even more now! It's much more dynamic.

I don't mind the crack in the wall actually. I'm not sure the camping spots bill----- mentioned are very advantageous so you could probably leave the crack there without much worry.

The map looks better too. I like the new textures and I especially like it how the ground isn't as bright now. Everything is better. It's very nice.

-Improved the ramp.

(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8306/shot0001j.th.jpg) (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0001j.jpg)

http://www.savefile.com/files/2077355

-removed the stairs, replaced with jump pads.

(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/937/shot0002a.th.jpg) (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0002a.jpg)

http://www.savefile.com/files/2077415

Hey Kit,

new version screenshots are looking good. I'll give it a go tonight.
There is only one problem: I intended the textures you used for jumppads as 'windows' and it looks strange to see them on the floor. ;)
There are better substitutions.

Gave it a run and I like what I see so far. More cracks and damaged decals is nice. The curved rise improved a lot. I just feel uncomfortable with the triple jump pad replacement of your stairs. Did you try a single elevator instead? Please add bot support in next beta release to test a few quick fights.

- Removed Triple jump pad system.

Includes .aas

http://allowdl.com/baseoa/zoa_minia.pk3

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3088/shot0003.th.jpg) (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0003.jpg)

(http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7006/shot0004c.th.jpg) (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0004c.jpg)

(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/175/shot0005k.th.jpg) (http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0005k.jpg)

- Variety of Small modification, to the Look & feel.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2106112

I really didn't like the design of the spiral ramp. It looked shabby & thrown in. So I've replaced it again. I personally think it looks much better now.

(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4908/shot0000b.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0000b.jpg)

http://www.savefile.com/files/2106599

Every time I finish I do another revision...

imagine if we had the same kind of polishing on all the other maps.

thumbs up kit89

Hi,

I've played both versions and i have to say: great work!!! Now you can play 1v1 on it :) .
IMO a YA would be nice (at the moment it is easy to control), maybe under the ramp instead of RL?
Maybe the Quad should be tansformed into MH in tournament play...(under the Quad, on the ground?)

schlorri

- Improved performance
- Added more details around map.

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9577/shot0002y.th.jpg) (http://img199.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0002y.jpg)

(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6938/shot0006.th.jpg) (http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0006.jpg)

http://www.savefile.com/files/2107125

Thanks for the Comments. I'm thinking this will be the last revision. Can't think of anything else to do with it at the moment.

r_speeds:
Min value: 2000
Average value: 4000 - 5000
Maximum value: 7800

Consider moving your new jump pad further away from the platform it targets.  If the
player steps onto it when approaching from underneath the platform, he collides with
the underside of the platform.  When coming from the other side, he doesn't reach
the platform, falls onto the jump pad again and then gets bounced into the underside
of the platform.  You shouldn't have to move the target entity, just move the
jump pad itself 64-128 units away.

- Moved the Jump pad further away from the under side.
- Aesthetic changes.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2109580

-Modifications to lighting.
-Subtle Aesthetic geometry changes.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2112001

- Final
- Lighting changes.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2112465

A lot more modifications.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1584/shot0001nip.th.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0001nip.jpg)

(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9232/shot0002ecr.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0002ecr.jpg)

(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8132/shot0003f.th.jpg) (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0003f.jpg)

I've attempted to reduce the flatness of the level. To make it a little more varied and less bland.

http://allowdl.com/baseoa/zzoa_minia.pk3

-Small fixes that arose from previous modifications.

http://www.savefile.com/files/2133073

-Removed the floating platforms. They never fitted in.
-Changed floor heights.

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8449/shot0000g.th.jpg) (http://img3.imageshack.us/i/shot0000g.jpg/)

http://www.savefile.com/files/2135326

- A variety of tweaks

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

This is probably going to be the Final release of oa_minia. I can't see anything else I can do to it...

I like your changes although I think you overdid it.
Especially the rooms where the floating platforms have been: too narrow and too many obstacles. Why not lowering all these stairs to gain more freedom of movement again?

Thanks Cosmo, made a few modification to make the stairs less of a nuisance around certain parts of the map. :)

-Lowered stair/floor heights. You can now easily jump the stairs.
-Added Clips to prevent being stuck around certain objects.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

That's better now. Enjoyed a big bot match. :)
Still have two issues:

Picture1: You are often unable to use the jumppad when coming from this RL as you hit the ceiling with your head. *ouch* Maybe move the jumppad further away and have different stairs up to the RL.

Picture2: This trims framing the stairs are a pain in movement although they look good. Why not replace them by triangular shaped stairs so you can easily access them from the sides?

On that troublesome jumppad:  you could also move the target so that the player will land on the ramp connecting the
platform the player lands on now with the upper platform.  The jumppad tilt 'reads' as though that ought to be the
landing point anyway.  The player who wants to land on the lower platform can use air control. 

On the original oa_minia, those stairs in the 'pit' under the QD had open sides, and you could even get under them
(a bad camping spot though).  My guess is that the intent of the mapper was to slow down players who take the QD.
They fall into the pit and must climb out, and other players will have a good idea where the QD player will be for a few
seconds.

The pit also slows down players on the lower level who are trying to move from one side to the other.  This isn't
necessarily a bad thing.  However, I did notice that your changes there allow a player to avoid the stairs by strafe jumping
using the brushes cosmo mentioned that block side access to the stairs.  I like maps that reward jumpers. 

However, those same brushes make life a little easier for the player who takes the QD since he can now
land on one them instead of in the pit.  For that reason, along with cosmo's, I recommend removing those brushes.

This map modification is coming along nicely now. 

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

-Modified the stair pillars, there now smaller & slope.
=Modified jump pad, so it pushes you to the ramp instead of the platform.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

-Improved .aas file size: 2.6MB(original) to 1.9MB(now).

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

Yes. Great work. For the moment I have no clue how to improve it further.

A few more minor modifications

-Removed the floating centre lights. Replaced with Arcing lights. Looks much better.
-Removed the base of the pillar(the one with the cables at the top). I found it was just annoying, causing problems getting to the ramp.
-Replaced certain objects around the map, with something more appealing.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

(http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4867/shot0000z.th.jpg) (http://img106.imageshack.us/i/shot0000z.jpg/)

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1860/shot0001p.th.jpg) (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/shot0001p.jpg/)

(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9475/shot0002syp.th.jpg) (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/shot0002syp.jpg/)

- Replaced Double Health items with one.
- Replaced some armour shards with small health
- Moved certain ammo around or replaced them with different ammo.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

I'll test this map in a bit.

Gave a short 15min run, I've included it in the 3rd unofficial patch. :D

Here are my thoughts:
- The map is mostly symmetrical. Could help a bit on the flow of the map if one of the bridge sides would be left as it is, and the other area gets a radical change. One of the ledge zones can actually be replaced for some other thing, platforms with jumppads on them for example.
- Also, as I've said to you before, try to not to put ammo near to its respective weapon. Plasma gun actually have plasma ammo in the same zone. Consider this too. Also try not to put two boxes or more of the same ammo very near of each other. Spread more the ammo.
- Replace the floating armor shards on the plasma zone with the Red Armor, and move the Quad Damage to the changed zone.
- Try to put at least 1 weapon per zone, (both ledge zones actually have shotgun & rocket, you can put shotgun on one side and rocket on the other) and unless you want your map to become big, try to not to repeat weapons.
- There's a lot of shards and small healths on the level, even there's one YA, having already one RA. This is excessive, try by changing the 4 green healths in the corner for one 25 health, for example.

Maybe you'd like to check the CPMA competitive guide (look at Mapping resources & tutorialss on the main page of the Wiki) and take some of its recommendations for your map. This one has a great potential to become a nice 1on1 map.

Also, the map in its actual state looks very good, but there's a huge lot of shadows too. Try to give a bit more of lighting on the level.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia.pk3

Made a few modifications.

Sometimes I wonder if kit89 hasn't chewed on this map enough! :-)

Different item loads for different game types would be interesting, though.

As an FFA map, this is a good run and shoot on which everyone will be
well armed, and someone will get the QD occasionally for some extra
excitement.  Don't know that I'd change much for FFA.  Might lower the
item count some as Neon Knight has suggested.

Don't know much about Team Deathmatch, but the symmetrical layout
gives it retreat-regroup-attack structure that seems to be important
in TD.  TD might  call for a different item load, with fewer items and
something to fight over, RA or MH, or NG(!), for example, in the middle area.

1v1, you could do something like reduce item load to somewhere around CPMA standard,
put RA and MH in diagonally  opposite corner rooms, and LG and RL in the other corner rooms.  Add RG
or PG where the armor shard arc is over the hole in the floor of the center area,
or in the 'pit'.  If gameplay shows players camping in the corner rooms, move one
or more of the high value items toward the center.

As far as shadows go, I like them!  :-)

Yeah, bill is right.

kit89, I'm a nobody to give advices to anyone, but what about if you release a version, wait two weeks or more for criticisms, ask for criticism in other places (other forums, IRC) and collect those which will serve you for your map.

Also, try to name pk3 with a different version, for example zoa_minia-b1.pk3 and so.

Okay I've re-done all the weapons & ammo for FFA.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_1.pk3

I've made an .ent file which makes this map to support TeamDM, Elimination, and DD. In DD, players will start at Shotgun/RL zones and both points are in the bridge zones. In the three modes, the player will have info about where (s)he and his/her friends are.

When I finish to do one thing I'm doing, I'll post screenies with what I've made.

Here's an article I've wrote about entity-only editing: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Entities-only_editing

What the hell is happened with this map ? O_O

It is not linear anymore O_O ... moving on it is like walking on transylvania map :S

And it also spams messages about textures :

I'm unable to re-create that spam you find yourself in. Does anyone else have this problem when running with 0.8.1?

From this source (http://www.warsow.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=20155): (I'll may copy that list to the wiki)


I guess that a solution can be finding the brushes which are using this shader and fixing them... or find the shader and fix it. The first will only affect your map, the second will affect all the maps which are using that shader.

Look at the screenshots

What textures are you using? They don't seem to be OpenArena's textures...

Uhm ... the only extra textures I have are those contained in the z-gpl-q3a2oa-textures-v5.pk3 ... anyway I'll try wthout that pak.

EDIT : yes ... the problem is caused by that pak , not by your map. I guess jackthompson removed that pack from RN for the same reason.

A few minor performance tweaks.

r_speeds
minimum: 2000
average: 4000 - 8000
maximum: 9000

Compiled Neon_Knights oa_minia.ent into oa_minia.bsp.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_2.pk3

You could have copied the part which goes from the entity 182 to the end of the file directly at the end of the .map file to directly apply the changes. :D

That certainly would have been easier!

Updated:
oa_minia.ent applied directly to the .map.
Re-compiled with updates.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_3.pk3

- Performance improvements.
-- Restructured the hint brushes. To gain better r_speeds in the more open parts of the map.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_4.pk3

Gave it a try on TDM and Double Domination.
Still the stairs are a bit too high for me in one of the rooms, but thats okay. Keep it.

Shot1: Z-fighting issue. Why not replacing this with more suitable textures.

Shot2: Sky looks nice but is it intended to be blurry?

Shot3: Spawn entity problem or was it a mod issue I used (oax41)

Shot4: Please clip these bars so I do not get stuck while strafejumping through the corridor.

One thing about the Double Domination Points: They are pretty close to those jump pads. First I was a bit annoyed but in the end you have to learn airrockets to defend the points. Another one: a few more player spawn points would be nice.

I'm unable to replicate a variety of your bugs cosmo.

Shot1: The z-fighting issue does not happen here, or on any of the other weapon placement zones.

Shot2: Your not getting the appropriate sky texture.

The spawning zones where touching the ground brush so I've moved them up a bit.

The bars are clipped. From my testing they should push you out to the side.

Update:
A few more brush tweaks, to clean the geometry up.
Modified DD spawn points, raised them off the ground.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_5.pk3

cosmo's second shot is a shader problem rather than a map bug. Look at oasky.shader => skies/moonsky, look for the detail line in one of the stages and delete it. It happens with hydronex & hydro2 too.

@NK: Of course its a shader problem. So my question is: why? The map should run fine with vanilla OA. Did you miss to include anything or should I try SVN version for testing?
Btw: spawn bug still exists in latest release, kit89. Do a double domination game with bot_minplayers 3+ and check the spawnpoint where this round shadow is cast. Even without any mod sometimes bots get stuck there.

I'm using OpenArena0.8.1 vanilla.

I'm also unable to recreate the spawn problem.

Does anyone else have these problems?

That, like kit89 said, is a 0.8.1 problem. And it only happens with r_detailtextures 1. I've submitted the change to the SVNC thread.

I can confirm that having r_detailTextures 0, causes the white, blurring sky. Setting r_detailTextures 1, displays the sky appropriately.

I can also confirm that removing the 'detail' line, resolves the problem.

- Restructured some brush work. Overall cleaner.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_7.pk3

tried it a week ago, liked it.
tried it just now (version 1_7 ) and i dont really like it in this version.

It has become to much 1v1 melee, and to little FFA i think. Maybe you can make an pro-oaminia for the 1v1 (with MH on quadplace) and keep the normal oaminia for FFA

but let me start with the trivial bug: the levelshot shows a plasma ammo in the center of the screen, but on that spot is now an shotgun.

You deleted lots of hp out of this map. I agree that the 4x 25 on the toplevel can be reduced to 2x25, but you also removed the hp near the rocket platforms.
For deathmatch this is to little i think. in total you removed 6 of the 10  25hp's and only added only a few 5hp's (or did you move those?)

 Same for the weapons. In a 1v1 there may be to much weapons on this map, but for FFA it is a bit to little. It sucks in FFA to constantly die before you get a decent weapon. In the 081 version there is a rocket and a shotgun in both staircases, so that gives the most important weapons for noobs real easy.

I think the lightning position is fine, but i would like holes in the ceiling there.

I think the RA was more fun in the 081 version. (screenshot10 where the rocket explodes) I would suggest platforms above where the Railgun is now, (and mirrored) and put the rail and the RA on those.

I dont quite understand how to attach screenshots to this post. Screenshot4: On the railgun side if you aim down the hallway towards the staircase, it is downhill, which makes railing a bit to easy, while on the shotgun side, you aim uphill, which is more difficult (hope i fix the screenshots to explain that) a bit unbalanced i think.

screenshot9: Last point. On the railgun side the frame is blown up, on the shotgun side it isnt. It is very easy to jump onto the blownup frame, but the intact frame is a bit higher and impossible to jump. This feels a bit inconsitent, but that is a minor detail.

- Added in some extra ammo & weapons, for DM & TDM.

http://www.linxonline.co.uk/devel/OA/zoa_minia_1_8.pk3

I really really like the improvements.

Thanks Kit89.

I've done some entity-editing tests with this map, and I've found it to be extremely versatile. The non-symmetry allows for FFA and 1on1 matches a la q3tourney2/q3dm1, but this one can also work very well in small matches in CTF-based modes (CTF, 1FCTF, Harvester, Overload, DD) because of the pseudo-symmetry.