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OpenArena Contributions => Graphics => Topic started by: fromhell on February 14, 2009, 02:25:58 am



Title: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on February 14, 2009, 02:25:58 am
JACK CAN YA GENERATE LIST OF LATEST MISSIN TEXTURES!? Gotta kick 0.9.0 development into gear somehow.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: jackthompson on February 14, 2009, 06:30:37 am
JACK CAN YA GENERATE LIST OF LATEST MISSIN TEXTURES!? Gotta kick 0.9.0 development into gear somehow.

you could just unzip the last pk3 i released with the 1-color-textures... it's pretty much like a list of Q3A textures still missing in OA...

i also heard about someones effort to replace missing textures with real textures based on that pk3, already...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fufinha on February 14, 2009, 08:41:21 am
Initially, I started off replacing some of the common trims with gpl textures which could have been implemented in any future replacement texture packs from jack. The results were good and Speaker kindly offered to help manage it and we decided it would be worthwhile to replace all these textures with suitable gpl ones.

It's not the most glamorous task but we have made good progress and any help is welcome. If the intention is to add jacks textures to prevent the missing texture issue then perhaps we could submit our efforts but there's still alot of work to be done. If the idea is to use gpl images to replace the missing q3 textures then even better, if we can align our textures in with oa to get the stuff done quicker.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: dash9 on May 01, 2009, 10:31:37 pm
Considering these items, from DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Roadmap](DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Roadmap (http://([b):
v0.9: - most (at least 90%) map textures replaced
v1.0: - All missing map textures replaced

I'm curious, how exactly should a texture creator contribute a texture, ..or 108 textures. What proof do you need that he/she is the author? What if that person wants to contribute a large number of textures (already created, or not yet created), then how should the process of contributing take place, so you can be sure the content is indeed owned by that person?

I had a look at (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ#How_can_I_contribute.3F maybe this info could be added there.

I remember how you, on one side, and Speaker and Missbehaving, on the other side, failed to work together to see how to include in OA at least the textures they created. Ultimately this affects OpenArena, of course. I hope your answer to my questions will prevent such a failure with other people who want to contribute textures.

Thanks!


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on May 02, 2009, 01:36:56 am
I remember how you, on one side, and Speaker and Missbehaving, on the other side, failed to work together to see how to include in OA at least the textures they created.
yeah, well they failed to even provide sources or even credits on request, plus they wouldn't be appropriate for OA anyhow (they're 1x size of Q3 textures).


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: dash9 on May 02, 2009, 05:48:52 am
I remember how you, on one side, and Speaker and Missbehaving, on the other side, failed to work together to see how to include in OA at least the textures they created.
yeah, well they failed to even provide sources or even credits on request, plus they wouldn't be appropriate for OA anyhow (they're 1x size of Q3 textures).
I think if it would have been clear from the beginning how exactly they have to proceed to contribute a large number of textures so that they are accepted, this would not have happened. Will you please answer the questions?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: jukeboxhero on June 14, 2009, 02:14:44 pm
An older topic but an important question, is there such a list? If there isn't I can help create one. I intend to contribute a few textures because I am working on a map and want to make that GPL.

JBH


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: pulchr on June 14, 2009, 02:52:47 pm
i have also created a couple of missing textures that would be unnecessary for someone else to create.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on June 15, 2009, 08:30:51 am
As so did I.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 19, 2009, 07:50:40 pm
I'm doing the list, I'll post it here when I got it ready.
BTW, shaders need to be reordered by folders.


Title: Missing texture names (at least to reach the 90% :P)
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 19, 2009, 08:50:51 pm
Just to begin. The list is attached. Missionpack & patches are included in the listing, but it is incomplete, since I didn't took a look at the shaders.


Title: Re: Missing texture names (at least to reach the 90% :P)
Post by: mewse on June 23, 2009, 11:38:38 am
Just to begin. The list is attached. Missionpack & patches are included in the listing, but it is incomplete, since I didn't took a look at the shaders.

Is this the full list of TGAs in stock pk3 files or just the ones missing from OA?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 23, 2009, 02:36:54 pm
Just to begin. The list is attached. Missionpack & patches are included in the listing, but it is incomplete, since I didn't took a look at the shaders.

Is this the full list of TGAs in stock pk3 files or just the ones missing from OA?
Just the ones missing from OA, and I didn't took a look at shader files, for example. There are more, for sure.

So, this list is incomplete, but I think it's something which can be used at least to begin.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: pulchr on June 23, 2009, 03:07:45 pm
oh, that list was much longer than i had expected :(

here are a couple of textures that i've created for my new map. not committed yet.
Code:
\textures\base_floor\clang_floor_ow2.jpg

\textures\base_light\border7_ceil50.jpg
\textures\base_light\border7_ceil50glow.jpg
\textures\base_light\scrolllight.jpg
\textures\base_light\scrolllight2.jpg

\textures\base_support\pipecolumn4.tga

\textures\base_trim\slots1_1.jpg
\textures\base_trim\pewterstep.jpg

\textures\gothic_trim\column2c_test.jpg
\textures\gothic_trim\km_arena1tower1.jpg


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on June 29, 2009, 02:29:14 am
@Neon: Please put your list into the wiki. We can update it and add names of contributers if they are currently working on some.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 29, 2009, 09:47:43 am
Good idea cosmo, I'll do it now.
Where do you suggest to put this list?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on June 30, 2009, 02:19:16 am
Development -> Mapping -> Q3A Texture Replacement Listing

;)


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 30, 2009, 08:41:54 am
Done

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: davidd on July 01, 2009, 08:50:11 pm
i have never done anything like this before, but i have started on this group of textures
out of

Code:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
\textures\base_trim\
-------------------------------------------------------------------
spiderbit.jpg
spiderbit2.jpg
spiderbit3.jpg
spiderbit4.jpg
spiderbit6.jpg
spiderbit_fx.jpg
spiderbit_ow.jpg
spiderbite.tga
spidertrim3.tga
spidertrim4.tga

xspiderbit4.jpg

I dont really think in original q3 this group of textures looks anything like a spider, it looks more like pistons to me,
so i was thinking of theming this group on snakes, but still staying close to the color scheme of the q3 texture.



Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on July 02, 2009, 02:08:27 am
Looking forward to see/use your outcome.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: davidd on July 02, 2009, 08:00:52 am
I think this one is to ugly, i will redo the snake but it gives a sense of where it is going.
I used some textures i found on the openarena as material.
base_floor/diamond2.jpg for the snakeskin and base_wall/bluemetal2.jpg and bluemetal3b.jpg for the background

(http://www.zvdk.nl/~davidd/pngslangezooi.png)

Ok my second improved version. Still not quite done

(http://www.zvdk.nl/~davidd/slangrepetition.png)


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 05, 2009, 03:16:33 pm
Great one davidd. ^^

The following textures can be needed:
base_wall2/demonltblackfinal.tga
base_wall2/demonltblackfinal.glow.tga

I've made replacements for the following:
base_wall2/ntrl_techfloor_kc.tga
base_wall2/techfloor_kc.tga
base_wall2/techfloor_kc_blue.tga
proto2/reda_dcl
proto2/redat_dcl
proto2/bluea_dcl
proto2/blueat_dcl

And their respective shader, the first three are locations for weapon spots, maybe can be of the utility to mark weaponspawn spots. The other four are CTF arrows pointing to bases, I think the base_wall2 is used on MP maps.

I'm uploading those.

EDIT: Uploaded, download the pk3 here (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/am_reps1.pk3), also the sources can be found here (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/am_reps1.zip). Below is the preview:

(http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/screenshots/rep1preview-small.png) (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/screenshots/rep1preview.png)


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 05, 2009, 09:59:40 pm
Uploaded textures and sources. ^^


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 15, 2009, 08:41:24 pm
I've made the remaining gothic_light/ironcrosslt* shaders/textures. These can be found here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.msg26224#msg26224).


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on July 16, 2009, 10:57:10 am
Will use these new crosses in ctf_compromise.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 16, 2009, 06:41:03 pm
I've started adding the remaining missing texture/shader names from the shaders to the list in the wiki page. Hopefully I'll be creating some of these to speed up the process.

EDIT: Finished until ctf2. I'll continue later.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: cosmo on July 17, 2009, 01:30:23 am
I think this one is to ugly, i will redo the snake but it gives a sense of where it is going.
I used some textures i found on the openarena as material.
base_floor/diamond2.jpg for the snakeskin and base_wall/bluemetal2.jpg and bluemetal3b.jpg for the background

(http://www.zvdk.nl/~davidd/pngslangezooi.png)

Ok my second improved version. Still not quite done

(http://www.zvdk.nl/~davidd/slangrepetition.png)

davidd: any progress on your snake textures by now? If you resemble true skin and add a structure to the background this is going to be useful.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 17, 2009, 02:57:01 pm
I've resorted the shaders by folder, this allowed me to add some of the missing shaders, there's still more work to do, but at least the entire base_, ctf_ and gothic_ sets have now the names of the missing textures on the wiki. Also packed with it is the env\xnight2* skybox, which is a copy of env\earthsky\*.jpg. That should solve the problem with Q3 skyboxes.

I've uploaded the file to the SVNC thread.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.msg26258#msg26258


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 17, 2009, 04:57:05 pm
Made the following now. The shader file should be merged with base_light:
- base_light\light2blue_2500
- base_light\lt2_20k
- base_light\lt2_8000
- base_light\lt2_4000
- base_light\lt2_2000
- base_light\sm_light1blue
- base_light\sm_light1red
- base_light\light2
- base_light\light2.blend
- base_light\trianglelight
- base_light\trianglelight.blend

I'll test and then attach the file.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Falkland on July 26, 2009, 03:49:14 pm
menu/art/pblogo.tga doesn't need a replacement and can be safely removed from the list of the missing textures, because it's the PunkBuster logo.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on July 27, 2009, 01:12:28 am
menu/art/pblogo.tga doesn't need a replacement and can be safely removed from the list of the missing textures, because it's the PunkBuster logo.

What are non-map textures doing on the list of missing textures?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Falkland on July 27, 2009, 07:55:08 am
What are non-map textures doing on the list of missing textures?

IDK ... they are listed on the wiki.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 27, 2009, 08:10:53 am
I was lazy to separate them. :D


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on September 24, 2009, 08:49:47 am
Did a checkout of the SVN revision 922 and compared the textures directory with baseq3/textures. Here are the results:

Number of textures which have a replacement in OA: 459 files.
Number of textures which are missing in OA: 638 files.
That's a 42% progress. The missing texture list is attached to the post.

I know there are some other images outside of the textures directory and missing sprites too, but this list should keep me entertained for a while :).


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on September 24, 2009, 09:23:01 am
You could have edited the wiki too, I've made a list there. :D

EDIT: Are the shader textures inside of the .shader files included?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on September 24, 2009, 12:07:29 pm
You could have edited the wiki too, I've made a list there. :D

EDIT: Are the shader textures inside of the .shader files included?

Ok, the wiki edition is a good idea, will do it next week. I only listed the files that are in the textures folder, so only .tgas and .jpgs, so I was a bit lazy, but the textures only are more than 600 entries on my to do list :D.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on September 24, 2009, 11:24:15 pm
Number of textures which are missing in OA: 638 files.
That's a 42% progress.
Eek


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on October 02, 2009, 06:31:38 am
Made a quick run through the q3 textures and classified them into 3 branches according how difficult is to remake it:
  • D1 - usually just a simple texture, or maximum 3 layers, can be made with a pixel based software like GIMP or Imagemagick
  • D2 - needs some simple drawings and 3D like lights and shadows, a drawing software like Inkscape or 3D rendering software like Blender is needed next to a pixel based one
  • D3 - needs really artistic drawings and amazing skills, can be produced with same softwares like D2 but takes more time

According to my subjective opinion the missing textures can be divided as following:
  • D1 - 139
  • D2 - 281
  • D3 - 212
If you sum it up, there's 4 textures missing, those are screenshots of maps, I don't know how they should be replaced, but they are probably D1. With these numbers we can make a rough estimation: let's say D1 requires one hour of work, D2 two hours of work and D3 four hours of work, then: 139+562+848 = 1549. There are a lot of textures which are just color variations of one type, so we may require just 80% of the whole time: 1239 hours. You can divide that with days, months, and developers how you like it. I think a contributor can spend 8 hours a week with OA, so it's 1239/8 = 155 weeks, which is 39 months. This time decreases of course if more contributors work on it or if one contributor can spend more time a week working on it, or works faster.

The list is attached to the post, it will be soon posted on the wiki.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on October 09, 2009, 02:14:31 am
Updated the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures#.5Ctextures.5C]wiki section of missing textures (http://([b). Todo: make a small script which automagically makes a Wikitext formatted list from the diff list, so updating the wiki doesn't takes 30 minutes. I actually removed the missing TA textures, it can wait a little bit, we should have some priorities, but if you insist I can make a list from that too.

As I noted on the wiki, it's more efficient to post 20-50 image packs to the SVN commits topic instead of single images, but if you have one texture ready please write your nick next to the texture name and make the filename strike-through so it stands out.



Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on October 19, 2009, 10:50:24 am
I've got a question about shader filenames. Right now there are some Q3 shaders defined in the clown.shader and clown2.shader files, like textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular. I think all the Q3 shaders should be in a more compatible file, like oa-base_wall.shader. Do we have a rule to name these files? Like there's a sfx.shader file in Q3 and an oasfx.shader file in OA, so should I write the shaders in base_wall.shader or oabase_wall.shader or something else?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on October 21, 2009, 07:15:43 am
Unfortunately I never enforced any rules on .shader conventions, makes me wish I had done so in 06 so the folder wouldn't be this huge mess. I agree it does need a reorganizing, possibly from scratch as there are a lot of unused junk shaders floating in there in the oanew and oasfx files.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on October 21, 2009, 07:47:29 am
I've resorted the shaders by folder, just like it was made on Q3, on the rev914 time, so I'll maybe get the shaders on rev922 and see what can I do with them.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on November 09, 2009, 02:29:34 pm
I've made some small perl scripts so I can easily compare Q3 files with OA files. GPLv2, cross platform, tested on Windows and Linux, download it from my site (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/oa_perl_scripts_v1.zip) if you need it. With the scripts I've updated the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures]missing textures list (http://([b)[/u] on the wiki.

There's two shader lists too, one is DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_Q3_and_TA_shaders]the original Q3 and TA shader list (http://([b)[/u], the other is the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_OA_shaders]OA svn shader (http://([b)[/u] list. They should make the OA shader list reorganizing easier. I don't know if I should write a script for that task or not, we have to clean it only once it goes by hand too.

I have a question with shaders. Some Q3 shaders are referring to textures which are missing. Like textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_15b_glow refers to textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_15b.tga and textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_15bglow.tga, but both textures are missing. Should we omit the shader too, or should we recreate the textures with some fantasy? In this example it is easy, because there's a textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_15b.tga file, so I have a clue what iD wanted to achieve.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on November 10, 2009, 02:04:29 am
Many of the shaders in Q3 were indeed cutting room floor leftovers that no one ever used, it's safe to omit those.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 15, 2009, 06:37:39 pm
I have a licensing or copyright question. I'm working on a perl script which can exclude all the names of the texture lump of a BSP file, nothing more. I also have another script which can go through a directory, open the .shader files and grab the names of the shaders, nothing more. Can I run the scripts on the Q3 files? Is it a violation of the copyrights? Can I use this method for OA to gain a list of missing textures per Q3 maps? And finally can I redistribute this lists in a GPLv2 licensed package so other people don't need the original Q3 files, just the lists?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: andrewj on December 15, 2009, 09:21:13 pm
Can I run the scripts on the Q3 files? Is it a violation of the copyrights?
I think technically (ultra technically) it would be copyright infringement to extract any part of the Q3A files.

But I also think that, pragmatically, the names of the shaders are not "assets" in any way (the images certainly are, and the shader definitions are, but not their names) and hence are OK to extract them.  US law does allow reverse engineering for the sake of interoperatibility (AFAIK) and this would fall under that.

Another way to achieve the same thing is to just load the Q3 maps into OA and collect the warnings about missing shaders from the console messages.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 16, 2009, 07:54:35 am
Another way to achieve the same thing is to just load the Q3 maps into OA and collect the warnings about missing shaders from the console messages.

Is there a command for raising the level of debugging messages? Right now I don't get any warnings about missing shaders with 0.8.5 RC1.

But I will just go on, and generate the lists with the scripts I wrote, thanks for mentioning the interoperability exception. Mewse's most used shader list (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=114.0) is a similar case, if it was not removed but stickied I think it is also accepted with OA.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 22, 2009, 03:48:11 am
The DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures_and_shaders_of_Q3_and_TA_maps]map based missing texture and shader lists (http://([b)[/u] are available on the wiki for some days. There's a summary on the top with the exact numbers, so you can pick the map with the fewest missing assets (mptourney1, q3ctf4, q3dm19, q3tourney1, q3tourney4 would be reasonable to start with). You can also find a DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_textures_and_shaders_of_Q3_and_TA_maps]list with all the textures and shaders (http://([b)[/u] per maps.

I've released the next version of my perl scripts (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/oa_perl_scripts_v1.1.zip), extended with the texturelump extraction script, all the other scripts are improved as well, STDIN and STDOUT aware, so you can create nice pipes with them. Still GPLv2, still tested on Linux and Windows, readme and example bash and batch scripts are still included.

And here comes a question. With the new version you can compare the folders with or without the file extensions. Here's the difference (base is Q3 and TA textures, compare is OA SVN rev. 923):
With extensions the usual high missing rate:
  • Number of base entries: 1950
  • Number of compare entries: 2085
  • Number of matching entries: 519
  • Number of missing entries: 1431
  • That is a 27% progress

But without the extensions the progress it's pretty nice:
  • Number of base entries: 1950
  • Number of compare entries: 2085
  • Number of matching entries: 1053
  • Number of missing entries: 897
  • That is a 54% progress

The 534 file difference comes from two factors:
a.) some of the replacement textures are pure JPGs instead of alpha channeled TGAs
b.) Team Arena included a lot of previous Q3 textures but in TGA format

The textures which lack alpha channels should be definitely fixed, but what is the policy regarding the textures which have both JPG and TGA version? Should we include both or if not, which format should we prefer?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 22, 2009, 08:04:15 am
The image loading priority in Q3, it is:
TGA > JPG > PCX > BMP > JPG

In OA, it is:
TGA > JPG > PNG > PCX > BMP

I have no idea why BMP is supported. mspaint ghetto support i guess lol
PCX is the only indexed color format supported by the engine, and there's not a single PCX ever used for a q3 based game. It is a legacy Q2 carry-over. I might make use of it though, since maybe a palettedtextures pk3  could benefit the 90s cards that support it natively (Voodoo series, GeforceFX, Rendition, PowerVR), or maybe just a cvar to upgrade tr_image.c to upload all textures resampled to a palette.lmp but that would increase loading times much for old computers. I wonder if it even supports alpha (index 255), Q2 did and some even used the blending of this to make psuedo 32-bit effects (that one star wars q2 mod)

Q3Tests have some textures Q3 never had as well, BTW. It also has TGA versions of textures.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: pulchr on December 22, 2009, 08:19:30 am
i think gtkradiant uses pcx to create heightmaps?
that's the only use i've ever seen.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 22, 2009, 08:29:45 am
In OA, it is:
TGA > JPG > PNG > PCX > BMP

Thanks, so we should use JPG where possible because of the filesize or is TGA loading faster?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 22, 2009, 08:32:24 am
JPG in release pk3s for when an alpha channel doesn't exist. Keep the original TGA somewhere, like maybe in a upper folder 't.tga', or '.lossless' where I can automatically exclude it in the PK3 building process.

(I realize, I should have done this in the first place.)


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: anyone on December 28, 2009, 10:40:15 am
I have no idea how you organize your work, but is it normal that very few textures are striked although they're present in OA? Do they need revisions to be considered done?

Beside that, just a small suggestion (for what it's worth): parent textures sorting (could take plenty of time); When you check the original game, plenty of textures are derivative from basic textures or use common patterns. Maybe sorting those stuff would help to make the base assets (no directly used in game), which could speed up the process to create final textures. For instance the skulls in baseboard09_e, baseboard09_e2, baseboard09_f, baseboard09_f2 but also window_a_bottom1, iron01_p, iron01_p2... Or the pattern in metalciclesrust, metaltech16gold, backtower1, archxiandm1dblack, metaltechfloor01final, xiandm9doore2 and so on...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 28, 2009, 12:48:45 pm
I have no idea how you organize your work, but is it normal that very few textures are striked although they're present in OA? Do they need revisions to be considered done?

Beside that, just a small suggestion (for what it's worth): parent textures sorting (could take plenty of time); [...]

My current goal is rather simple, I only focus on one original Q3 map at a time. When it's ready I will make a small video to increase OA's popularity among both players and artists. I want to make it as fast as I can, so I leave the ready replacement textures as they are. The only exceptions so far are the metalfloor texures, because nihilus released (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3356.0) a nice looking curcuit pattern, so I remade those shaders and textures. When I'm ready I will release a pk3 with all the new stuff so you can test it before I post it to the SVN commits.

The parent textures sorting is a good idea, but I will skip it because of the one map at a time progress. I make as raw images as possible and always keep all the image layers, so I can remix and modify the similar textures later (and since it's open source those will be released too). Of course if I have one texture ready I will see if there's another one with a similar filename, and will do also that, but won't go very far beyond the requirements of the current map.

Is there a coding standard for shader files? Like opening brackets on new line/same line, spaces instead tabs, blendfunction shorthands where possible, texture names defined with or without file extension, UTF-8 or something more basic, CR+LF/LF/CR, etc.? First I thought I will define the texturefiles without the extension, but if OA has TGAs, my JPGs won't be loaded, so I will have to make an extra installment to delete the TGAs I want to overwrite.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2009, 01:27:38 pm
http://www.heppler.com/shader/

What about that? :P


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 28, 2009, 01:51:47 pm
http://www.heppler.com/shader/

What about that? :P

Yeah, I use that for the commands reference, but what I'm asking is more practical, like:

This kind of standard:
Code:
textures/sfx/xmetalfloor_wall_9b
{
qer_editorimage textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9b.jpg
q3map_lightimage textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9bglow.jpg
q3map_surfacelight 60
{
map textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9b.jpg
rgbGen identity
}
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
}
{
map textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9bglow.jpg
blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
}
}

Or rather this:
Code:
textures/sfx/xmetalfloor_wall_9b {
  qer_editorimage textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9b
  q3map_lightimage textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9bglow
  q3map_surfacelight 60
  { map textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9b
     rgbgen identity }
  { map $lightmap
     rgbgen identity
     blendfunc filter }
  { map textures/sfx/metalfloor_wall_9bglow
     blendfunc add }
}

Both are correct and have the same effect, but have different format.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2009, 04:41:15 pm
I would use the first.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: chaoticsoldier on December 29, 2009, 12:58:58 am
The second looks much less confusing to me, even though they contain the same information.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: andrewj on December 29, 2009, 03:13:33 am
In my own shader files I use the first format, { } on their own lines and at the same indent level.  I use two space indents and leave off the extension on image names, and write 'rgbGen' instead of rgbgen (etc).



Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 29, 2009, 05:39:47 pm
I'd use the second only to hastily make detail texture assignments


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 29, 2009, 05:42:42 pm

(I realize, I should have done this in the first place.)

50% resizing all textures, as 8-bit PCX (Unreal standard) totals the compressed size of it all to 18.1MB. Big savings from 114MB there, lower quality though, not to mention no alphas preserved.

I will need to do some further experimentation on size.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 30, 2009, 03:25:37 am
50% resizing all textures, as 8-bit PCX (Unreal standard) totals the compressed size of it all to 18.1MB. Big savings from 114MB there, lower quality though, not to mention no alphas preserved.

I think most of the compression comes from the TGA -> PCX switch. I just wonder if the alpha channel information could be stored in a separate black/white or grayscale pcx and added again with shaders...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 30, 2009, 04:00:36 am
Darkplaces recently added a similar loading pipeline. I'd say its possible, just add it in renderer where the images get loaded and parsed, look for _alpha and copy its grayscale value over to the alpha when loaded as a 32-bit texture.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: andrewj on December 30, 2009, 05:02:30 am
I just wonder if the alpha channel information could be stored in a separate black/white or grayscale pcx and added again with shaders...
Shaders cannot do that.

I think fixing the TGA loader to supprt type 9 files (RLE COLORMAPPED) would shrink that 18MB even more, perhaps as low as 10MB (114 / 4 / 3).

Also TGA colormapped files theoretically support RGBA colors, i.e. alpha values, in their palette, but I'm not sure whether programs like the GIMP can create them.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on December 30, 2009, 08:21:20 am
Shaders cannot do that.

I think I found something which _seems_ to accomplish what I was looking for, but I lack the knowledge how shaders really work, so please check if it's a viable solution. Basically what this method is about is that, after a blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_SRC_ALPHA step another blendFunc filter will "mask" the second texture according to the first greyscale alpha texture. I've tried it with two transparent textures, and the results seem to be the same.

First example is the metafloor_wall_14_specular texture (OA doesn't use it yet, but you can find it in q3dm16).
(http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/pcx-experiment/screen-specular.jpg)
The separated pcx solution is a little bit darker, according to the heppler reference, it's due to the additional blendFunc. The shader definitions used (left the transparent TGA, right the two PCX):
Code:
textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular {
qer_editorimage textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14
{
map $lightmap
rgbgen identity
}
{
map textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_SRC_ALPHA
}
}
Code:
textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular {
qer_editorimage textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14
{
map $lightmap
rgbgen identity
}
{
map textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular-alpha.jpg
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_SRC_ALPHA
}
{
map textures/base_wall/metalfloor_wall_14_specular-color.pcx
rgbGen identity
blendFunc filter
}
}

Filesizes (512x512px):
metalfloor_wall_14_specular.tga: 1.0 MB
metalfloor_wall_14_specular-alpha: 248.7 kB (8bit PCX) or 194.9 kB (grayscale JPG)
metalfloor_wall_14_specular-color: 259.5 kB (8bit PCX)
Sum: 1024 kB vs. 508.2 kB

The another example is the cybergrate2 shader, which you can find on the railgun platform of oa_ctf4ish. It's trickier than the previous, because only the metal grid was transparent, the electricity effect wasn't, but due to the method both had to be made transparent. The result:
(http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/pcx-experiment/screen-transparency.jpg)
The PCX solution is a bit ugly on the edges, but don't worry about that. Shaders used (left original, right new):
Code:
textures/base_floor/cybergrate2
{
surfaceparm metalsteps
cull none
{
map textures/sfx/portal_sfx_ring_electric.tga
tcmod scroll 1 -1
blendfunc add
}
{
map textures/base_floor/cybergrate2.tga
blendFunc blend
rgbGen identity
}
{
map $lightmap
blendFunc filter
rgbGen identity
}
}
Code:
textures/base_floor/cybergrate2
{
surfaceparm metalsteps
cull none
{
map textures/sfx/portal_sfx_ring_electric-alpha.pcx
tcmod scroll 1 -1
blendFunc GL_DST_ONE_MINUS_COLOR GL_SRC_ALPHA
}
{
map textures/sfx/portal_sfx_ring_electric-color.pcx
tcmod scroll 1 -1
blendFunc filter
}
{
map textures/base_floor/cybergrate2-alpha-mono.pcx
rgbGen identity
blendFunc GL_DST_ONE_MINUS_COLOR GL_SRC_ALPHA
}
{
map textures/base_floor/cybergrate2-color.pcx
rgbGen identity
blendFunc filter
}
{
map $lightmap
blendFunc filter
rgbGen identity
}
}

Filesizes (256x256px):
cybergrate2.tga: 132 kB
cybergrate2-alpha: 5.1 kB (8bit PCX) or 3.6 kB (1bit PCX)
cybergrate2-color: 35.7 kB (8bit PCX)
Sum: 132 kB vs. 40.8 kB

Here's a test package so you can try this at home: http://udionline.hu/fajlok/z_pcx-experiment.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/z_pcx-experiment.pk3)

The filesize compression is more than 50% in both cases, but of course the shader steps require more computing. Is it worth to deal with this method?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: andrewj on December 30, 2009, 09:35:16 pm
I stand corrected :)

I think though that sacrificing rendering speed for smaller file sizes is a bad trade-off.

PNG also supports palettes with alpha values, and ioquake seems to support it (looking at the tr_image_png.c code).  So for images with "simple" alpha (always 255 or 0) then PNG is the way to go.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on December 30, 2009, 11:27:22 pm
Hmm. If that's the case, then some sort of batch process that nicely puts the alphas like that on map textures in pngs on palettes would be sufficient.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on January 27, 2010, 06:20:25 pm
The first package is ready with textures fully covering q3ctf4 as Mr. January. 71 textures are done, most of them brand new, and some of them replacing already existing textures. I believe they can compete with the Q3 textures, but the creator is always corrupt, so be my judge:

Screenshots: (1) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_1.jpg), (2) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_2.jpg), (3) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_3.jpg), (4) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_4.jpg), (5) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_5.jpg), (6) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_6.jpg), (7) (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing-textures1_v1/missing-textures1_7.jpg)
Video: missing-textures1_v1.ogv (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/missing-textures1_v1.ogv)
Package: z_missing-textures1_v1.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_missing-textures1_v1.pk3) (tested with 0.8.5 RC1)
Sources: missing-textures1_v1_src.zip (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/missing-textures1_v1_src.zip)
License: GPLv2, both the package and sources contain a readme file with a detailed credits list

Since there are some replacement textures aswell, both oa_ctf4ish and wrackdm17 are also influenced. Oa_ctf4ish even has an overburnt texture since the previous was a semi-alpha one, but the Q3 one isn't. So it probably needs a recompile, but since the tribute maps will be dropped, it's not a big issue. Q3dm17 got also pretty close to the 100% finish, I will do it in February next to the webdesign rework. I also noticed, that my perl script does not extracts all the textures, until I fix it, you can use the clanarena resources (http://maps.clanarena.org/). And I will also do some other shader fixes for 0.8.5, that's all I've got on my OA todo list.

Any feedback is welcome. We have plenty of time testing and polishing it, since it will only be committed after 0.8.5, and some shader filename cleanup.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Graion Dilach on January 28, 2010, 06:31:42 am
Looks nice. Definitely.

I'm not a CTF player, but I've tested the pack on q3dm16, dm17 and dm19. Firstly I didn't like the launchpad's base on dm19 (caused by atech1_e.jpg) but then I checked them in my brother's Quake 3, and it turned out that I've became used too much to Jack_Thompson's GPL pack. Maybe the yellow base should be a bit darker-greener on that one.

Also, I got some "WARNING: unhandled AL error. Invalid value." in the console on those maps.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on January 28, 2010, 08:13:42 am
The atech1_e caused a lot of headache, I've tried to improve that one before the release, but it will be definitely reviewed in the next pack with the other atech textures.

The unhandled AL error is coming from OpenAL (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3374.msg27981#msg27981), not the texture pack.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Graion Dilach on January 28, 2010, 08:48:15 am
Oh, sorry the OpenAL thing, then.

I think the... oh, whatever... Az elrendezés kiváló, igazából a sárga NYÁK tud csak zavaró lenni benne, mert mindegyik lebegőn is a sárga virít ki.

For the others... that yellow base thingie's too bright after a test run on dm19.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on January 28, 2010, 09:13:11 am
Hu: Köszi, tényleg a sárga felületek rontják el. Már az elején elcsúszott a koncepció, mert abban gondolkodtam, hogy ez egy számítógép belseje, tele csipekkel, kondikkal meg mi egymással. Aztán a q3tourney6-nél láttam, hogy a préselő gép teljes oldala ezzel van borítva, akkor jöttem rá, hogy ez inkább valami gőzgép csupasz külseje. Utána próbáltam átalakítani, de nem sikerült tökéletesre, a következő kiadásban jobb lesz.

En: Thanks, it is really the yellow things which make it bad. The concept was faulty from the beginning, because I thought that it displays a computer from inside, full of chips and etc. Then I saw on q3tourney6 that the whole smashing machine is covered with it, and I realized that it is more like an uncovered steam machine than a computer. After that I tried to change it, but it ain't perfect, it will be better in the next release.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on March 27, 2010, 03:40:34 pm
I can't finish the next missing texture package in March, but I've made a teaser screenshot to show some progress. Available at 1280x800 (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing_textures2/missing-textures2-teaser.jpg) (my native resolution) and 1920x1080 (http://udionline.hu/kepek/openarena/missing_textures2/missing-textures2-teaser-HD.jpg) (forced on Windows).


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: pulchr on March 27, 2010, 06:18:25 pm
looks good! :)


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: BCH32 on March 30, 2010, 04:10:45 am
I'm just amazed by tha quality of the overall work on texture !!!
The
Package: z_missing-textures1_v1.pk3 (http://udionline.hu/fajlok/openarena/z_missing-textures1_v1.pk3)
look very nice !


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Falkland on August 25, 2010, 09:45:01 am
I don't know if this could interest or not , anyway ...

http://ioquake3.org/2010/08/24/high-resolution-creative-commons-texture-replacement-pack/

"... It replaces the original textures in Quake 3 with high-resolution versions, and it is licensed under the creative commons! "


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on August 25, 2010, 10:31:17 am
http://ioquake3.org/2010/08/24/high-resolution-creative-commons-texture-replacement-pack/

It's the same package we once talked about in a different topic (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3792.msg33023#msg33023). It was first introduced on Quake3World (http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=43731&st=0&sk=t&sd=a), I contacted the maker there, but a co-operation couldn't be established since GPL wasn't an option for him. You can see on it's official site (http://www.xcsv.net/hires/), that the CC license is quite restictive: Creative Commons Attribution-Non Commercial-No Derivs 3.0 Unported License. It's definitely a better option for server admins over the Q3Min package, but it's not an option for OA, I think.

Update: the CC package doesn't have any shaders and some mapobjects are missing (lamps for example), that makes things a bit harder...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Falkland on August 25, 2010, 11:10:15 am

It's the same package we once talked about in a different topic (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3792.msg33023#msg33023).
[...]
I contacted the maker there, but a co-operation couldn't be established since GPL wasn't an option for him. You can see on it's official site (http://www.xcsv.net/hires/), that the CC license is quite restictive: Creative Commons Attribution-Non Commercial-No Derivs 3.0 Unported License. [...]

Update: the CC package doesn't have any shaders and some mapobjects are missing (lamps for example), that makes things a bit harder...

Ok , nvm ... I saw the message on the ioquake ML and the relative post on ioquake site just today , sorry if the topic was already discussed.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 24, 2011, 07:26:13 am
Bump!

Any news on this?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on February 24, 2011, 08:09:35 am
Any news on this?

I'm still lazy and/or doing other stuff, but only two textures are missing from q3dm17. One of them is part of the atech set, which I have to remake, since the previous one I released is not so great, and the other is also part of a set, so it's more like 8-10 textures until the next package.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 24, 2011, 08:40:51 am
Nice.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Gig on November 07, 2011, 12:02:21 pm
Hi! Are there some new Q3-compatibility related textures ready, to be inserted into the new 0.8.8 patch?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Udi on November 07, 2011, 02:30:52 pm
Hi! Are there some new Q3-compatibility related textures ready, to be inserted into the new 0.8.8 patch?

Yes, I hope I can finish another pack in time.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Peter Silie on November 07, 2011, 02:57:07 pm
+1


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Gig on November 15, 2011, 04:44:00 pm
Not exactly a texture... "neutral domination point" icon is missing.
Bye!


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 15, 2011, 06:11:32 pm
It's in the SVN, it's just that the building script for some reason doesn't include it, nor the Harvester icons.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on November 15, 2011, 06:14:46 pm
The 088 patch pk3s aren't done by script

I use a new working folder for it, and manually 7-zip the contents.

This is for the sake of my sanity.  Managing new patched files through scripts in a SVN folder is extremely painstaking.

Also, control points aren't textures. Complain in the right place


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: seven on March 03, 2012, 10:19:01 am

Where is the list
I unrar pk3 files. Which textures are not GNU, or are to do?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 03, 2012, 10:39:11 am
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: seven on March 03, 2012, 10:45:09 am
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures
:) all are to do?


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: seven on March 03, 2012, 10:58:35 am
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures
I unzip pk3 files and in base_wall 2 folder i have 15 textures, on list(in base wall 2 :)) is more, where i can find it!


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: seven on March 03, 2012, 11:04:49 am
no one do this textures Oo: space_panel_alt.tga  (easy square) and this generic "plasma" space_panel_alt2.jpg ????????


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: GrosBedo on March 03, 2012, 12:26:40 pm
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_missing_textures

Amazing! I did not know this list existed! To the ones who've done this list (Jack, Udi, Gig, ...?): guys you've done a very great job!


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Gig on March 03, 2012, 01:27:34 pm
I haven't written that page, I don't know how much it is updated (I fear it may be quite outdated)... maybe Udi knows.

I mean, some textures may have already been created but not yet "stroked out" in that page...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fromhell on March 03, 2012, 06:53:21 pm
no one do this textures

You can't just make a texture by rendering noise.


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: fasna on May 14, 2014, 11:34:20 pm
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs31/i/2010/309/6/c/texture_34_by_sirius_sdz-d1ihrrm.jpg)


Title: "Shoot-me button" FIX
Post by: Gig on July 02, 2015, 03:29:05 am
I did a small fix for the "shoot-me" button.
Considering the required texture (image) already existed in OA pk3s but was unused, and what was really missing was just the shader... it may fall out from this thread's aim ("textures")... so I edited this post (I can't delete the whole post), to write it in a different topic.

You can find it here: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=5146.0


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Homme_de_noiR on August 15, 2015, 03:49:45 pm
so, if i understood corrextly, the textures need to be 256x256, and saved in the tga format? apart from the specular aspect, what would help me, and i think also others, if the currently finished ones would be on the page, since i do not know if others are committed to any texture,  although i might need some direction, a list with depictions would be nice, as per asking for just one thing, just to make sure i wouldn't be wasting energy making something that even resembles something non-free, many thanks,...


Title: Re: 0.9.0 textures todo list?
Post by: Gig on August 17, 2015, 06:53:33 am
IIRC, oa textures should have each side the double of q3 ones, so the total number of pixels should be four times the original.
If original was 64x64 then do 128x128... If original was 256x256 then do 512x512.

But I don't remember where I read that, I may be wrong.


And I suppose that jpg can be used, for images which do not have an alpha channel.