OpenArena Message Boards

First, I'd like to say that OA wins!

Good.  :-)

Pros and cons for each?  Anything in particular that was a dealbreaker for QuakeLive?

openarena

still just windows

Quakelive is unplayable on my low spec machine.
Sticking with OA.

quakelive doesn't work on netscape 3 gold. i'm disappointed.

Hmmm. I actually get better performance with Quake Live.

OA has tons of better maps. Many of the QL maps are unimpressive, although a lot of people will probably disagree with me on that.
The Longest Yard in Quake Live is way too small (and other maps are too).

I've wrote a full opinion about both games, both have its advantages and its disadvantages IMHO.
But I lost it. -.-

I fear suicide too. ;D

QL doesnt support linux and is proprietary. OA runs great on linux and is free as in speech.

+1 for the apt-get install openarena

QL is a lot of fun, and I like the built in stats, leaderboards, etc. (when they work)
It taxes your hardware a lot more, no question about that. I get around half the FPS from q3 in ql.

Weapons are different, in QL. More balanced.

Both games IMHO has both its pros and cons:

OA:
- Pros:

• More options and gamemodes.
• Full compatibility with almost all the Q3 stuff. (Some mods are getting trouble, but mainly those who interest to the players work well)
• Thanks to its GPL nature, it can be improved to the infinite in any aspect, making it a game with full potential (This is something which can't be said for most closed-source games) and to not to have "ultraüberFOREVERsucky" stuff. (something I tried to prove with the 4 maps I've modified: oa_dm1, oa_dm5, q3dm6ish and specially hydronex ^^)
  
• Missionpack weapons and gamemodes!!! (Harvester is awesome ^^ for those who love UT3's Greed, you'll find at home with it ^^)
• The Unlagged feature. ^^
• In every version more and more people its coming to the game, specially since 0.8.1. I hope this can be followed on the next versions as well. :)
• The easiness of install and use for both three systems. (Win, Lin, Mac) You just unzip, configure if you want/like, and you're playing. ^^

- Cons:

• Something found at the forums, not at the game itself: there's not so much contributors, some people who helps us with the stuff and the reporting, and the sad of it all: as tuppe666 pointed in another thread, there's A LOT OF HATERS AND WHINERS, specially those whose main complains are about the maps (for example, those who just say: "OA maps sucks" and don't propose ways to solve the issues) and other things about the game itself. (I don't care for mind-closed purists tho, you can't deal with them, and in most cases it's better to leave them to stick to their game...) I don't mind the licensing problems, which is what most trouble causes here, because if you want to contribute to any project you have to stick to their rules, here both rules are in the form of DO NOT LINK (http://([b)) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/NOTTODO]NOTTODO[/url][/u][/b] and DO NOT LINK (http://([b)) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ]DeveloperFAQ[/url][/u][/b].

- Don't Care/Between_Good_And_Bad:

• I'm not sure about the people, generally speaking massive gaming communities have a LOT of idiots in there (mostly in these times where idiots are everywhere, not just in gaming but in other environments too) who are there just to ruin the fun in many of the ways the fun can be ruined. :( ATM and IMHO this is something which is bad and good for OA, bad for people playing on servers (but as fromhell pointed on another thread it doesn't mean that the game is dead, not all of the people playing it wants to play online, despite that this is the tendency for the games of the nature of OA/Q3/UT and many other MP-oriented games) and good for don't having so much idiots over there. But again, I'm not so sure about it on how it will be in the future... time will tell... (B/G/A/B)

QL:
- Pros:

• When it's finished you should be able to play it in every browser in every OS I guess.
• The new maps rock the hell out!!! specially the CA ones. ^^
• It has TEAM ARENA STUFF!!! (weapons, maps, and items... I just love it, too bad they haven't put 1FCTF, Harv and OL there :()
• The weapon rebalance
• The way everything (stats & awards specially) is integrated/implemented there.
• Easiness of installing: download a plugin, login, wait until everything is downloaded, and the next time you only have to login.

- Cons:

• You can't play 3rd. party maps/mods unless ID approves them.
• ATM all the servers are hosted in USA/Europe making impossible for people like me who aren't living in USA/Europe to play well without the ping/PL/lag issues. I missed the Unlagged feature. :(
• Some lack of options.

- Don't Care/Between_Good_And_Bad:

• Bright skins.
• The Ads. It seems like it won't be interfering with the playability after all.
• I didn't see any difference in my system compared between Q3, OA and QL. I have a Sempron 2800+, 1GB of DDR RAM, and an XFXForce 5500 with 256 MB RAM. I had to stick to Windows because of my family. -.-
• The skill thing. I mean, all of us started losing when we started with games, mostly for big differences starting from 20+ or 30+ to 10-, reaching 0 and negative score, maybe it can be good for newcomers, but it can be against self-improving :/

Don't Care/Between Good And Bad means that I have a non-fully formed opinion about this point, or that I'm not sure about something.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things in both sides. But ATM this is all I'm thinking of both games.

I want to like QuakeLive, since I can play games with lots of people
with low ping (here in Australia).  But I just don't.

Probably the biggest thing I don't like are the sounds.  Most of the
voices sound like one single guy made them all, including Crash :).
For me it's not a pleasant audio environment to spend time in.

Secondly the weapns seem so much weaker. MG, SG, RG all seem to
require more shots to frag someone.  [I'm not 100% sure this is the
case, maybe I've just been shooting badly].  The satisfaction of fragging
a bot with a single RG hit is gone.

QL makes me appreciate all the variety of player models in OA,
Sergei with his "hehe yeah", Tony with his "forget about it", Merman
with funny jump sound, etc... as well as all the girl models, like
Kyonshi saying "ni hao ma?" after killing you (heh).  On this front
OA >> QL :)

One thing I do like about QL are the weapon accuracy stats.  It would
be great to have that fetaure in OA (almost tempted to try it myself).
Also be great if you could see other people's stats (for current game)
when spectating them.

P.S. another major thing in QL is the "125fps" physics code, which
means everybody is using the same physics (can jump the same height
and distance) as everybody else, regardless of their framerate.  I really
hope that code can be incorporated into ioquake3 sometime.

I am a big fan of OpenArena, but look at the Truth.

ID is behind quakelive, so they Will fix the problems, in a timely fashion.  Quakelive is the evolution of quake 3 arena and is an Ofiicial ID Software project.  This is going to be awesome, maybe a lead in to Doom3Live...who know.

Comparing OA to QL is like comparing Apples to Oranges, Quakelive is just better.

Game Not Over,
SlippJigg

p.s. I am ready to compare QuakeLive with OpenArenaLive when it becomes available!

It will be a VERY hard work for Id to try to please both purists and not purists at the same time, at the cost of putting down excellent features like TA ones.

Your concepts are flawed.

lordhavoc is working on a macosx/linux port????

I thought lordhavoc's baby was Darkplaces. The Linux port (Darkplaces) is great.

openarena

but he needs to earn money. right?

my guess would be a small team of devs but idk

<edit> but I do know not everyone will be able to see the code <edit>

Why do you call a browser-ported version evolved? That means no difference. It's just another way, like if you port a Windows exe to PlayStation, etc. About officiality, I can mention some examples when a mod (which isn't official) really evolved the game. Mental Omega and Wake of Gods are the best examples, because they created their own storyline, etc. so they should be called unofficial expansion packs instead of mods.

In my dictionary, 'evolution' means a good expansion pack or a sequel. Not a port. And this is why I think OpenArena worths the state 'evolution', because it features numerous gametweaks over Quake3 or QuakeLive.

PS. I don't like oranges.

i'm curious, what numerous gametweaks are you referring to?

IPv6, different female deaths in rnd.c, more crosshairs, allowing TA features to use without using TA, blood... Should I continue?

the only things i see as real evolution would be the ipv6 and built in voip (ioquake3).
and the stuff taken from team arena isn't it present in quake live too?

the way i see it quake live is more evolved with friends, stats, matchmaking and online updating.

Evolution can only occur on the same codebase. Quake Live is(will be?) a whole new game on a different codebase and will have new bugs, exploits, and other mistakes new codebases have.

calling quake live as 'evolved' is an insult. when Quake 2 'evolved' all it got was a ego, doom3 hud, stupid water/particle system hype, and more ego

why should anyone be insulted if i call quake live and evolution of quake 3? it's not like it's an attack on anyone personal. but i can agree that it's not the best term to use when it comes to quake live/quake 3. the new things in quake live i mentioned are more like new features.

i think openarena can learn some things from quake live. new ways to do things that improves the experience without breaking backwards compatibility and crippling game play. it might not be the aim for the project though and first we should try improve on the basic things that can be improved upon.

I read the above as "online dating".

If that were the case, OA would be real in trouble. :D

quake2reallydevolvedbackintothecesspoolofcrap
now it is overdose
same difference

its funny that you say that :) (i know this could end in a ban, but i like danger :P)

on topic...
OA just cant compare QL... OA is way out of its league for so many reasons...

One of the best things? balanced games... you always play ppl about your skillz...
other? servers with people...
other? super tested maps...

Geez, id like to see OA succeed, but i dont see that likely...
I dont play QL anymore coz I only have linux right now...
...and maybe is because of that that Im making 2 maps for OA. CTF and domination. I love domination mode from UT, but no server runs it. :(

when QL is ready for linux i hope not to forget about OA, but... ...well, i will sure be back for v1.0 to check it out in 2015 ;)

PD: I think one of my maps will be ready for b1 testing soon. Maybe within 2 or 3 days :)

Techinically, this isnt true because anyone can return back to the training mode and either diliberately play worst in order to play against players who lack skill to make themselves feel better. Its not a true judge of skill since it can be fooled.

I prefer OA over QL because you have complete freedom to do what you please. It promotes knowledge sharing, creativity and innovation. You can make your own customizations such making maps, mods, models, etc. that people will actually use. You cannot get this in QL since everything is given to you. Although the graphics are good in the QL, OA are just fine. Its not about the graphics always but about the gameplay and adaptability.

Besides the graphics are not so much better in QL, just a small improvement in the engine.

==>

I'm (very) tired of those "maps/models sucks, period" kind of arguments.

Technically maybe, but in practice, games tend to be balanced... ive using QL for about 3 months... way more than OA... Owning noobs can be fun for awhile, but then i changed back to my skillz... close matchs are what makes me enjoy the game in practice...

Also about the customizations... OA can compare to Q3A theoretically as u said... but in practice... i play OA A LOT. Besides the problem of cg_allowdownload 1 which we know has no solution... most of the servers are just empty... its ok to have the whole world for you to change... I love the creativity part of the project... i like making maps. I use linux, i love to make my own customizations.... Ill always support OA.... but in practice i think i will join more QL (when is ready for linux) coz it just fun... most OA servers are empty or the one full, with terrible configs... I've been said before in this thread... some1 with a server said, its no point in making the effort to set a server with all kind of options when it ends playing the same basic settings over and over...

I dont care about graphics either... look at me, playing q3 mp... when there is so many options nowadays :P

OA sure has his own space on the long run.... where ppl like me can make a map (so q3a has, btw) but i still think OA is way out of QL's league...

Dont understimate QL btw... john carmak just now how to do stuff... probably in a few years they will free the code and OA is taken over by OAL or they allow ppl to run their own servers and stuff...

Anyway this is just pure talking... time will tell....

my 2 cents :)

Man its not an argument really. Im sorry that you dont like it but thats the way it is... Look who is telling it... i play OA A LOT and maps are awful... we dont need to rely on OA maps but in practice, servers do so... so what can I do to change that? im making 2 maps my own...

id love OA to succeed... I do as i can to make that happen, i tell ppl i know what i play... and im making 2 maps... but we are not gonna win a popularity contest... this maybe free source project, but its pretty closed in mind as only fromhell make the decisions. Im ok with that... but dont think im the one ruining the popularity contest just coz i say it... :P

fromhell is ok with that, and so i am... im not for the popularity contest either... being popular has cons and pros... its just if the author dont give a shit about it, i dont know why you ppl want to compete in a league witch is not ours and compare ourselves with them when we are plain different...

And yeah, u like it or not, their default maps are utterly tested and improved... ours not that much...

Nice point... yes, most of the maps have their own problems, mine included, I admit, but now I ask you something... WHAT is exactly wrong with OA maps? The way most of these were constructed? I may agree, but most of us, which spent our spare time doing those maps while we could have been doing another thing, aren't professional mappers at all. The layout? Item/weapon placement? Those can be fixed. Remember that fromhell said in the past that doesn't owe anything (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2653.msg22005#msg22005), everything in this project is spare time work. That and the fact that fromhell isn't the only one here, and most of us, which have content in the project, want them to be improved. And I can continue... In fact, where were you (and many others) when we need you?

Because it's too easy (and IMHO too lazy) to just say "maps are awful and suck, that's all", but you give me the reason while I add "saying what's wrong with our stuff and suggesting ways to fix/change them is another story".

quakelive has a production budget; openarena does not. simple as that.

But you _do_ a good job!
I like this game and his community.

THX for your work!

What people said about stats, all q3 games can have ones. I haven't played QL, i'm on linux, but there are bots for q3 games (there is on Urban Terror) (which not only take stats then do many other things) for server, like BigBrothrBot (b3) (http://wiki.github.com/BigBrotherBot/big-brother-bot) with combination of XLRStats (http://xlr8or.snt.utwente.nl/site2/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=118&Itemid=181) can store stats in MySQL, so they are viewable from your web browser.

gross, packaged software eww

XLRStats doesn't actually come in the box, they just made a picture of a box to make it look cooler i guess :D it's donation-ware, from what i see... And it appears that BigBrotherBot is in the same situation, heh..

This is licence of b3:

You can donate if you want, they need help, but you can still get it free. Same goes for XLRStats, you can donate, but to download only thing you have to do is to register (which is free)....
Is what they say about it.

And there are no boxes, its as vindimy said.