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OpenArena => Multiplayer => Topic started by: RoOst3r on April 08, 2009, 10:33:22 PM



Title: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 08, 2009, 10:33:22 PM
Hello. I've been playing OpenArena for awhile now and I think it is a great game. I have also been trying to make a frag movie to show off how much fun OpenArena can be. It's my first attempt at making a movie of anything so I have had to learn everything from scratch. Still, I think it turned out pretty good for my first effort and well worth the download. Hope you like it. :-)

Here is the movie. It's an mp4 and about 8 minutes in length. 300MB. Please download it rather then stream it cause the streamed Filefront version looks horrible in comparison.
http://files.filefront.com/13557039

Slightly lesser quality than the above version for half the file size. 150MB.
http://files.filefront.com/13596782


Hopefully no one will have problems getting it to play. However, if you do run into problems I would recommend playing it with a good movie player such as MPlayer or VLC.

MPlayer - http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/dload.html
VLC - http://www.videolan.org/


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Martian on April 09, 2009, 08:14:38 AM
Great video and nice skills.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: vindimy on April 09, 2009, 01:34:01 PM
I know of one place where you can post the video and its streaming quality will be nearly as good as original :) So, I saved you the trouble and did the posting :P

Here's the direct link to the video: http://www.facebook.com/v/66700440668

And here it is as part of the Openarena group: http://www.facebook.com/video/?oid=8946150591

Enjoy :P



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: KILLIE THE GREAT on April 09, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
I was inspired by that video, well done brah, not even im that fast. i,ll never get that good


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Udi on April 09, 2009, 04:12:42 PM
The best OA video so far. It made my day. I'm watching it the 4th time, but my jaw is still dropped. A lot of maps, beatiful maps, lot of models, different people, awsome frags, and nice music. This music genre is quite unique in frag videos, makes it remarkable. Great work! More, more,  more :)!

I know of one place where you can post the video and its streaming quality will be nearly as good as original

Nearly as good quality as the original? LOL You can only achieve the same quality if you encode it with H.268 MP4, and then give it to the flash player. No video site does that for you. But with a small do it yourself you can achieve nearly HD quality in 500kbp/s (http://www.flashvideofactory.com/test/demofullscreen345.html). People, you should download the original, it is a must have, trust me ;).


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 09, 2009, 04:35:47 PM
Downloading. ^^ I'll be watching it the next week since I won't be at my house in the following days. :/

I was inspired by that video, well done brah, not even im that fast. i,ll never get that good
Killie, don't say never. ^^ Nothing is impossible to make.
One of the ideas behind videos and demos, I guess, is the possibility to learn new tricks and jumps (something which is achieved with nothing more and nothing less than practice -and practice, of course, requires time-) and then apply what you've learned.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: HITMAN on April 09, 2009, 05:04:53 PM
WOW..this video is the truth...Although I got my ass handed to him several times, i feel like I contributed in making this film awesome :-D ..Amazing Air Rockets! Stunning Rail skills..the dude is a beast! Great job man for your first film!


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: vindimy on April 09, 2009, 05:20:22 PM
I know of one place where you can post the video and its streaming quality will be nearly as good as original

Nearly as good quality as the original? LOL You can only achieve the same quality if you encode it with H.268 MP4, and then give it to the flash player. No video site does that for you. But with a small do it yourself you can achieve nearly HD quality in 500kbp/s (http://www.flashvideofactory.com/test/demofullscreen345.html). People, you should download the original, it is a must have, trust me ;).

LOL back to you :D First of all, you were probably meaning to say H.264, not H.268 (former is a.k.a. MPEG4 part 10, latter is Intel's proprietary codec). Secondly, Facebook and other video sites have long been using H264 to provide HD video streams :)

Code:
Facebook HD: 1280×720 - 2.5mbit/s H264 - full framerate - 44hz 146kbit/s AAC stereo audio
(See link: http://techvideoblog.com/reviews/online-video-sites-hd-quality-comparison/ )

I agree that people should download the original. But they better do it at night, 'cause it takes 1-2 hours over regular DSL connections. Right now, best thing to do is hop over to Facebook and watch the HD version :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: pulchr on April 09, 2009, 06:07:07 PM
i'm impressed - very nice frags. i especially like some of the air rockets and twitch rails.

this is how the upcoming 0.9.0 version should be promoted - a nice video showing some real game play :)

very well done!


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: KILLIE THE GREAT on April 09, 2009, 06:35:33 PM
Downloading. ^^ I'll be watching it the next week since I won't be at my house in the following days. :/

I was inspired by that video, well done brah, not even im that fast. i,ll never get that good
Killie, don't say never. ^^ Nothing is impossible to make.
One of the ideas behind videos and demos, I guess, is the possibility to learn new tricks and jumps (something which is achieved with nothing more and nothing less than practice -and practice, of course, requires time-) and then apply what you've learned.
i,ve almost reached the limit of my talent.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 09, 2009, 10:22:32 PM
Thanks for all the great comments. I am happy to see that people are liking the movie. :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Udi on April 10, 2009, 02:03:02 AM
Code:
Facebook HD: 1280×720 - 2.5mbit/s H264 - full framerate - 44hz 146kbit/s AAC stereo audio
(See link: http://techvideoblog.com/reviews/online-video-sites-hd-quality-comparison/ )

Yeah, sorry, I meant H264, my mistake, and watching the high quality version assures the data above, but your link points at the regular version. Offtopic discussion closed.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on April 10, 2009, 04:57:56 AM
Nice vid indeed, could be nice to use it to promote OA ;) (but here I fear about copyrighted songs ...)
cg_draw2d off and high framerate are good points.

You catched the video with the built-in /video command ?


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 10, 2009, 02:43:49 PM
Quote
You catched the video with the built-in /video command ?

Yes. That was definitely the most tedious and time consuming part.

I left cg_draw2d set to 1. With cg_draw2d set to 0 nothing that is 2d gets drawn to the screen. Which means that I would also lose Frag Messages and Rewards being drawn to the screen. So I had to leave it set to 1 and remove everything I didn't want manually. I couldn't find any built in commands to remove either the scoreboard in the lower right hand corner or the weapon switch animation that pops up every time you change weapons. To fix that problem I downloaded the OpenArena source files. Commented out the code in cg_draw.c that was responsible for drawing those things I didn't want. Compiled and then used the new qvms from that instead.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on April 11, 2009, 02:05:04 PM
wow dood, that was actually really good :D :D

Definitly the best oa frag vid out there :D


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 12, 2009, 10:52:15 PM
Thanks Gerbil! :-)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: chaoticsoldier on April 13, 2009, 02:39:16 AM
Definitly the best oa frag vid out there :D
Your "Welcome To OpenArena" video is nothing to be sneezed at though.


@RoOst3r: Good work! Very intimidating play.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on April 13, 2009, 07:46:18 PM
Quote
You catched the video with the built-in /video command ?

Yes. That was definitely the most tedious and time consuming part.

I left cg_draw2d set to 1. With cg_draw2d set to 0 nothing that is 2d gets drawn to the screen. Which means that I would also lose Frag Messages and Rewards being drawn to the screen. So I had to leave it set to 1 and remove everything I didn't want manually. I couldn't find any built in commands to remove either the scoreboard in the lower right hand corner or the weapon switch animation that pops up every time you change weapons. To fix that problem I downloaded the OpenArena source files. Commented out the code in cg_draw.c that was responsible for drawing those things I didn't want. Compiled and then used the new qvms from that instead.
So do you have the config file you used to make the video? If you do, could you send it to me? :D
Yeah, getting rid of the scores/flags in the bottom right corner is the only thing I need to get rid of now :/
I was having trouble capturing sound when I use the /video command, do you know what may have caused this?


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 13, 2009, 10:49:25 PM
Quote
So do you have the config file you used to make the video? If you do, could you send it to me?
Yes. That can probably be arranged after I clean it up a little.

Quote
Yeah, getting rid of the scores/flags in the bottom right corner is the only thing I need to get rid of now :/

I created/used a pk3 file to fix that problem. It will remove the scoreboard in the lower right, holdable item icons, connection interrupted messages, and the scoreboard on death. It can be downloaded here:

http://files.filefront.com/13591253

To use it just put it in your baseoa folder.

Quote
I was having trouble capturing sound when I use the /video command, do you know what may have caused this?
It most likely has to do with s_UseOpenAL. I believe that must be set to 0 to record audio. Occasionally I had to reset it to 0 and restart the game a few times before it seemed to take. It may be that it needs to be set on startup. If thats the case it is probably a good idea to have s_useOpenAL set to 0 in your default cfg. If you are converting a demo with /video and the in game audio sounds like a freakshow then everything is good and it is capturing the audio. On the other hand if the in game audio during /video sounds normal then it is not capturing the audio.

Hope that helps. :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 13, 2009, 11:49:13 PM
I managed to compress my movie a lot more without losing much in quality. Instead of 300MB download it's now down to 150MB. That should make it much more manageable for those with slower internet connections. There is actually very little difference in quality. You be the judge. :) It will probably stream a lot better as well. It can be downloaded here:

http://files.filefront.com/13596782


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on April 16, 2009, 11:02:16 PM
thanks a lot man, I appreciate it :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on April 17, 2009, 06:15:42 AM
Hm, I have to say I reay prefer the 300MB version ;) Did you change framerate to the half ? (from 50 to 25 ?). Maybe my imagination, but compression also seemed better on 300MB one.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: menganito on April 17, 2009, 07:04:04 AM
How do you do those rail-twitch-hits? Is it like Air rocket: you "calculate" where the enemy is at a given time and just shoot that place? Or is there another trick?

BTW realy impressive, great skills. (at least it seems to me)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: HITMAN on April 17, 2009, 08:39:31 AM
How do you do those rail-twitch-hits? Is it like Air rocket: you "calculate" where the enemy is at a given time and just shoot that place? Or is there another trick?

I can't speak for Rooster but when I do them, its more instinctively judging where to aim, quick reflexes and remembering where your target is. You would have to have semi-high sensitivity and it helps to have brightskins.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on April 17, 2009, 10:27:14 AM
Quote
Hm, I have to say I reay prefer the 300MB version Did you change framerate to the half ? (from 50 to 25 ?). Maybe my imagination, but compression also seemed better on 300MB one.
Thanks for telling me Cacatoes. I did lower the frame-rate from 50 to 25. At 50fps it is indeed smoother. I would prefer to only make movies like the 300MB version. In this aspect I am trying to figure out how to approach my next movie. If anyone is put off by the thought of having to download a 300MB+ movie and would rather download the 150MB version instead please let me know.

Quote
How do you do those rail-twitch-hits? Is it like Air rocket: you "calculate" where the enemy is at a given time and just shoot that place? Or is there another trick?
Yes, with all the shots there is some visual cue at first of where the player is. From that I then make a guess as to where I think the player will be. So, before I move my hand I have already committed in my mind as to where I will shoot and it is a location and not a player. If you watch my mouse movements in the video there are tell tale signs of this. There are spots where, like a cat wiggles  its butt when it's going to pounce, I wiggle my aim as I am preparing to do some twitch shot. At that point I have already committed to where I will shoot. Or for another example, at about 3:16 in the movie I pass by a female player model. I flip and shoot at the wrong location and miss. However, luckily someone, the model that looks like a gargoyle, had the misfortune of spawning and getting in the way. So I hit him instead which is why that one made it into the movie. :P

I find that those shots are much easier when there is no vertical mouse movement and the target is close. Like air rockets, as the target gets farther away predicting where you need to shoot to hit becomes much more difficult. Also, when there is no vertical movement it's pretty easy to guess where someone will be when they run in a straight line. However, if they are jumping off a ledge and you then have to guess at that too then the difficulty of the shot takes a steep climb.

Another thing to remember is that it's CTF and I am usually playing offense. When I grab the flag everyone that sees me will chase me. So if 3 people are chasing me they will almost always just fall into a nice little cluster behind me trying to catch up. At that point if I flip a 180 and shoot I am bound to hit someone. :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: vindimy on April 17, 2009, 02:34:58 PM
RoOst3r, maybe one of your next movies should be a tutorial on your tricks (with slow motion and captions to explain it all)... Share the talent :D


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: menganito on April 18, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
Yeah, I'd love to learn some of it as well...


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: KILLIE THE GREAT on April 20, 2009, 08:08:42 AM
Menganito, long time no see brah, how u been, where ya been?


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 20, 2009, 08:33:11 AM
Nice video. :)
It looks great and runs great too.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Chaos on April 26, 2009, 10:30:36 AM
nice job!


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RMF on August 10, 2009, 11:03:31 AM
"File is Unavailable.

The file you are attempting to download is not currently available on our servers or is being processed. Please try your download in a few minutes."

???


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Udi on September 03, 2009, 04:53:36 AM
"File is Unavailable.

The file you are attempting to download is not currently available on our servers or is being processed. Please try your download in a few minutes."

You can find both RoOst3r's and Gerbil's video on these sites:
  • vindimy's site: http://oa.thedimi.net/openarena-videos.php (http://oa.thedimi.net/openarena-videos.php)
  • my site: http://udionline.hu/en/projektek/openarena/ (http://udionline.hu/en/projektek/openarena/)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RMF on September 05, 2009, 11:52:44 AM
thanks


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 05, 2009, 01:48:21 PM
RoOst3r, maybe one of your next movies should be a tutorial on your tricks (with slow motion and captions to explain it all)... Share the talent :D

That's easy

(http://jockl.kilu.de/img/rocket.jpg)

If u spect CPMA bots at a level >= 86 , you can see they have the "same talent" at quite every range like he ( apparently ) had/has.

A little explanation :

- the player's speed is known ( 320 ups in normal condition , a jumper can push a player at higher speed but the value is anyway constant and known - u can see it with /cg_drawspeed 1 )
- the rocket's speed is known ( 900 ups in VQ3 , 1000 ups in CPM )
- the bot adjust the aiming angle ( alpha )  to exactly hit the player when he/she will be when the rocket will arrive


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 07, 2009, 06:50:11 PM
well falkland, you are assuming that the player is moving at walking speed, exactly perpendicular to yourself.

If u spect CPMA bots at a level >= 86 , you can see they have the "same talent" at quite every range like he ( apparently ) had/has.
(http://www.bingegamer.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/phoenix-wright-objection.jpg)
you are honestly trying to accuse rooster of hacking? You do realize you have ABSOLUTLY NO proof of this at all whatsoever? Have you ever simply considered that he is good at getting air rockets, and probably has played q3 since it came out before coming to oa. Have you ever considered that he is BETTER than you?

flick rails - every single one of them he clearly saw before shooting, plus the targets were relatively close when he shot them.
air rox - so he looked at the targets speed, distance, and direction and made a guess as to where he should shoot the rocket. If he misses, oh well; if he hits, yay! another one for the video. You have to be a quick thinker and good at estimating, but for experienced player, it's not so extraordinary of a feat.

I did read your post on the rainbow forums, in all honesty, I couldn't stop laughing for at least a minute. I nominate you for biggest paranoid raging noob rant of the year. Here is your post:
Quote from: Falkland
Did u see also the railshot that touched me before the rocket that he shoted ?

BTW , this guy seems to have his brain ( does he have a brain ??? ) calculating vectors indeed ... airockets , expecially when the target is far from you , require u ( and all normal people ) to estimate where your target will be when your rocket will arrive there.

I said " TO ESTIMATE " 'cause rockets' speed is known ( 900 ups in VQ3 ) eventually , but players speed is not , because even u admit that every player is moving at the default linear speed ( 320 ups ) , jumpers have not the same speed in every map. Rocket splash damage radius is not significant in airockets because usually there are not obstacles near the target ; the only way to splash damage radius to be significant is AFTER you directly hit your target ( that's why an airockets can catch 200 hp ... 100 hp by the direct hit and 99hp by the splash damage ).

This guy seems to be so ease with predicted players position just in every map , also when apparently there are not any visual reference ( a item , an armor , a health ball ... an object in the map , a visual reference in the sky ... something ) ... wow ... definitely he's ease with vectorial speed calculation : linear speed in ups and direction expressed with x,y,z coordinates ... maybe he can solve any differential equation without writing anything on paper .... or MAYBE .... BUT MAYBE .... he "has" the same attitude of CPMA bots at a level equal or higher than 86 , when the evil RL is enabled and your position is predicted just on EVERY SHOTED ROCKET.

Now the nice rails : the first railshot in the video is against kernel_panic on oa_ctf2 ... he had kernel_panic in front of him for a few seconds before taking the jumper ... but of course he's not normal so he didn't tried to shot him when in front , but ONLY ... and I say ONLY ... when both were taking the jumpers and kernel was on his left out of his visual.

The rest of the video contains many other strange railshots where he suddenly turned on his left or his right shoting his enemies , also while they were respawning. How do I have to call this attitude ? Should I have to call it Rooster's SUDDENLY_RAILSHOTTING_ENEMIES_WHEN_THEY_ARE_ON_MY_LEFT_OR_ON_MY_RIGHT ?

Or MAYBE ... but MAYBE ... the enemy is shoted after an automatic relevation of enemy's distance ... or ... when he press the FIRE button ( uh ??? does he really press it ??? ) , first the crosshair goes suddenly on the enemy and then the enemy is shoted.

This video remember me the GetQuaked 3 quake3 video ... nice to be watched but which is "branded" as not so full of "authentic skills" also on QL forum.
btw there is no such word in the english language as "shoted".


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 08, 2009, 08:21:22 AM
well falkland, you are assuming that the player is moving at walking speed, exactly perpendicular to yourself.

I've figured the simplest case : even if we admit that a player trajectory ( eg while taking a jumper )  is parabolic , it can be always expressed as a vector and if there's a thing that any code can do with its best is COMPUTE NUMBERS ( linear or vectorial )  or do u think that what u see on the screen is drawn by a God himself miracle ?

And VQ3 air control is anyway _LIMITED_ .

If u spect CPMA bots at a level >= 86 , you can see they have the "same talent" at quite every range like he ( apparently ) had/has.

Everyone can download and install CPMA , give a try to CPMA bots at the whatever level he/she wants and verify what I'm talking about

Quote from : http://www.promode.org/wiki/index.php/Bots

Quote
The skill thresholds are:
* 79- has pretty sucky aim
* 81+ enables evil RL
* 86+ tries to avoid "bad" RG shots **
* bot_challenge 1
  * enables evil hitscan at skill 91+ after you're open for 0.5-0.25s
  * doesn't degrade accuracy at close ranges
  * aims faster after using a tele
  * does NOT otherwise affect aim skill
  * uses the "alternate" weapon choices (more hitscan)


you are honestly trying to accuse rooster of hacking? You do realize you have ABSOLUTLY NO proof of this at all whatsoever?

PLS , of CHEATING .... I've asked him for the demos used to edit the video : NO RESPONSE

flick rails - every single one of them he clearly saw before shooting, plus the targets were relatively close when he shot them.

Well , Rooster's reply is , for sure ,  extremely more resonable than yours : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2959.msg24169#msg24169

I did read your post on the rainbow forums, in all honesty, I couldn't stop laughing for at least a minute.

I'm happy that I made u laughing ... I recomend to you to take breath next time because your a-minute-long-histeric-laughing leave your blood full of CO2 and can cause a hypoxia to your brain "contained" in a body used to sit for very long time over a chair.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: jessicaRA on September 09, 2009, 12:31:11 PM
If u spect CPMA bots at a level >= 86 , you can see they have the "same talent" at quite every range like he ( apparently ) had/has.

maybe you are not paying attention to the fine detail and think its the same but really its not...  have a close look at movements while watching it, its obviously low sensitivity human.  if i were to accuse him of anything its of learning from AxioM.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 10, 2009, 12:02:24 AM
I've figured the simplest case : even if we admit that a player trajectory ( eg while taking a jumper )  is parabolic , it can be always expressed as a vector and if there's a thing that any code can do with its best is COMPUTE NUMBERS ( linear or vectorial )  or do u think that what u see on the screen is drawn by a God himself miracle ?
And VQ3 air control is anyway _LIMITED_ .
all I was pointing out was the complete uselessness of your picture of basic trig. Your english is so bad here I don't even want to try.

PLS , of CHEATING .... I've asked him for the demos used to edit the video : NO RESPONSE
and that means...... You know I havn't seen rooster on oa for a very long time. Maybe he has a life? Not everybody waits around their computer waiting to correct your apparently adamant noobiness like I do ;)

Well , Rooster's reply is , for sure ,  extremely more resonable than yours : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2959.msg24169#msg24169
The only thing different that I said was that the targets were relatively close, everything else is pretty much the same, I have no clue what the hell you were reading. The targets were all pretty close, there were no cross map flick shots. The main point, is that it is an estimation, using clues such as their position before they went out of site, and their speed before going out of site. The rest is guessing and good aim. If one is off, oh well, it doesn't get put in the video.

I am not even going to quote your post on cpma bots, I have  no idea where your trying to go on that. So cmpa bots can be perfect, guess what rooster is anything but, and there is ample evidence IN HIS VIDEO of that. You can see several missed rockets, some of which are way off. A high level cmpa bot would not make such mistakes. You prove absolutely nothing by copy/pasting a post from cpma boards.



continuing on
YOUR ENTIRE POST WAS A GIANT NOOB RANT WHICH ONLY EMPHASIZED HOW NAIVE YOU ARE
let me explain.
Quote from: Falkland
BTW , this guy seems to have his brain ( does he have a brain Huh ) calculating vectors indeed ... airockets , expecially when the target is far from you , require u ( and all normal people ) to estimate where your target will be when your rocket will arrive there.
all normal people can estimate where a target will be and when quite easily if they have some experience, maybe you just suck. Estimation is an easy.

Quote from: Falkland
I said " TO ESTIMATE " 'cause rockets' speed is known ( 900 ups in VQ3 ) eventually , but players speed is not , because even u admit that every player is moving at the default linear speed ( 320 ups ) , jumpers have not the same speed in every map. Rocket splash damage radius is not significant in airockets because usually there are not obstacles near the target ; the only way to splash damage radius to be significant is AFTER you directly hit your target ( that's why an airockets can catch 200 hp ... 100 hp by the direct hit and 99hp by the splash damage ).
direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE so stfu about stats you obviously know nothing about. In any case, this proves nothing about rooster hacking or not.

Quote from: Falkland
This guy seems to be so ease with predicted players position just in every map , also when apparently there are not any visual reference ( a item , an armor , a health ball ... an object in the map , a visual reference in the sky ... something ) ... wow ... definitely he's ease with vectorial speed calculation : linear speed in ups and direction expressed with x,y,z coordinates ... maybe he can solve any differential equation without writing anything on paper .... or MAYBE .... BUT MAYBE .... he "has" the same attitude of CPMA bots at a level equal or higher than 86 , when the evil RL is enabled and your position is predicted just on EVERY SHOTED ROCKET.
Now this is the part where I started laughing. WHO THE HELL NEEDS A VISUAL REFERENCE BEFORE SHOOTING? You look at the target, see their general direction, wether the target is getting smaller or larger, then make an estimation and shoot. 90% of the time they are going off of a bounce pad, which means you ALREADY should know their general position and speed. A CHILD COULD TELL YOU THIS. You do not need calculus to solve it, you just need half a brain, something you obviously do not possess.

Quote from: Falkland
Now the nice rails : the first railshot in the video is against kernel_panic on oa_ctf2 ... he had kernel_panic in front of him for a few seconds before taking the jumper ... but of course he's not normal so he didn't tried to shot him when in front , but ONLY ... and I say ONLY ... when both were taking the jumpers and kernel was on his left out of his visual.
You cannot nitpick about what he does and does not do in the heat of a match, even if experienced players record themselves, and watch the video afterwards, they WILL see mistakes, they WILL see shots they could have taken but missed. I would also like to point out rooster only just got on the bounce pad, so shooting first thing isn't something you always do. I can almost guarantee that kernal panic never left his visual. If rooster made the video with a SLIGHTLY lower fov, then his normal fov would have very easily seen him. Even if both fov's were the same, kernal panic never left his view long enough for it to be a spectacular shot. Further more, kernal panic was moving along a VERY VERY predictable course, rooster could have very easily waited longer before shooting, and still expect a good chance at hitting. All in all, this shot was nothing spectacular, I have no idea why your getting your panties in a knot over it.

Quote from: Falkland
The rest of the video contains many other strange railshots where he suddenly turned on his left or his right shoting his enemies , also while they were respawning. How do I have to call this attitude ? Should I have to call it Rooster's SUDDENLY_RAILSHOTTING_ENEMIES_WHEN_THEY_ARE_ON_MY_LEFT_OR_ON_MY_RIGHT ?
Welcome to flick/twitch rails! These are hardly anything extraordinary. As it has probably been explained to you countless times, ONE: he saw them before he shot, TWO: they were relatively close by, THREE: he made an estimate about where they were and shot, FOUR: if he misses it doesn't make it in the video, life moves on. He also could have potentially used a higher fov to make those shots even easier. All in all, nothing spectacular enough to hit the capslock button and start using underscores instead of using that trusty spacebar.

Quote from: Falkland
Or MAYBE ... but MAYBE ... the enemy is shoted after an automatic relevation of enemy's distance ... or ... when he press the FIRE button ( uh Huh does he really press it Huh ) , first the crosshair goes suddenly on the enemy and then the enemy is shoted.
I have no fuckin clue what they hell your talking about here. You are trying to assume outrageous claims based on ZERO evidence. The crosshair goes suddenly on the enemy probably cause he AIMED AT THEM YOU FUCKING NOOB. And the part when they got shot, well rooster probably CLICKED MOUSE 1. It's not god damn rocket science, hell its not even basic trig.

Quote from: Falkland
This video remember me the GetQuaked 3 quake3 video ... nice to be watched but which is "branded" as not so full of "authentic skills" also on QL forum.
Yeah, I seriously doubt that that was not authentic because they had 68 high level players working over who knows how long, collecting over 1500 demos. When I say high level players, I do not mean high level by oa standards. Wake up kid.


I watched all of roosters video several times, and I saw nothing exceptional. There were a lot of skilled air rockets, a couple lucky rails/rockets, but all in all, it was very clear that it was a human making that video. I do not know how many times I have to tell you this before it gets through, but JUST BECAUSE YOU SUCK DOES NOT MEAN EVERYONE ELSE SUCKS AS MUCH AS YOU DO. Get over it kid, move on with your god damn life.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 10, 2009, 08:50:53 AM
All this BLA BLA to point on how "ridiculous and noob I am" and/or "how much I suck" ... but your statement :

WHO THE HELL NEEDS A VISUAL REFERENCE BEFORE SHOOTING?

is really explanatory.

And u are using again the term of hacking : infact everyone knows Rooster's Q3 and/or OA mod ( *sarcastic* ) ... actually nor Rooster , neither you is able to "hack" a tube that is lacking water.

Quote from: Falkland
This video remember me the GetQuaked 3 quake3 video ... nice to be watched but which is "branded" as not so full of "authentic skills" also on QL forum.
Yeah, I seriously doubt that that was not authentic because they had 68 high level players working over who knows how long, collecting over 1500 demos.

I wrote that the video was blamed as "FULL OF CHEATS" at QL forum , so blame QL forum not me for this ...



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on September 11, 2009, 03:31:16 AM
Quote
This guy seems to be so ease with predicted players position just in every map , also when apparently there are not any visual reference ( a item , an armor , a health ball ... an object in the map , a visual reference in the sky ... something ) ... wow ... definitely he's ease with vectorial speed calculation : linear speed in ups and direction expressed with x,y,z coordinates ... maybe he can solve any differential equation without writing anything on paper .... or MAYBE .... BUT MAYBE .... he "has" the same attitude of CPMA bots at a level equal or higher than 86 , when the evil RL is enabled and your position is predicted just on EVERY SHOTED ROCKET.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qur9LCjz84&feature=related

Quote
And u are using again the term of hacking : infact everyone knows Rooster's Q3 and/or OA mod ( *sarcastic* ) ... actually nor Rooster , neither you is able to "hack" a tube that is lacking water.

I can see my name in there so I suppose it has something to do with me. Unfortunately, what you wrote makes no sense in English.

Quote
PLS , of CHEATING .... I've asked him for the demos used to edit the video : NO RESPONSE

You got no response because this is the first time I have ever heard you wanted demos. When and where did you ask me for demos? If the only response you got back was a lot of clucking and pecking then you asked the wrong rooster.



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Udi on September 11, 2009, 07:34:06 AM
Quote
This guy seems to be so ease with predicted players position just in every map , also when apparently there are not any visual reference ( a item , an armor , a health ball ... an object in the map , a visual reference in the sky ... something ) ... wow ... definitely he's ease with vectorial speed calculation : linear speed in ups and direction expressed with x,y,z coordinates ... maybe he can solve any differential equation without writing anything on paper .... or MAYBE .... BUT MAYBE .... he "has" the same attitude of CPMA bots at a level equal or higher than 86 , when the evil RL is enabled and your position is predicted just on EVERY SHOTED ROCKET.

You are mixing the conscious and subconscious mind. The conscious mind is responsible for solving mathematical problems, the subconscious is for regulating your breathing, balance when you move etc. While you're right that adding two 3D vectors uses the conscious mind and requires a lot of time and concentration, navigation in 3D space and hitting targets is controlled by the subconscious mind. When I learned psychology at the uni, we've watched a documentary with the following experiment:

A good football player could make a run and throw 100%. He was asked to put special goggles on, which shorted his sight, so he had seen the objects closer than they really were. With the goggles on he was again asked to throw the ball, and guess what: he failed 10 times in a row. After a while his brain got used to the sight and reset his hand-eye control, and again he could hit the running guy 100%. After the goggles were removed he again needed some time to regain his skills. Can a college football star make vector additions in his mind? I doubt so, but his subconscious mind was pretty awesome. There's a video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49awI5Jd1s), which is like the experiment I talked about, but not the same.

So when playing OpenArena not your conscious mind is working adding vectors in your head, but your subconscious which is developing as you play. How much do Gerbil and RoOst3r play OpenArena? 4 hours a day or more? Shooting air rockets is like breathing for them, because their subconscious know pretty much about the OpenArena world. You can see that in every flick rail:
  • was the guy moving next to me red or blue? (conscious mind, takes time)
  • was he heading toward our base? (conscious mind, takes time)
  • until I figured out that he's dangerous and have to kill him, he got behind me
  • move my hand and click the button (subconscious, damn fast)
I'm pretty sure you also exprienced that if someone is looking at you, you know it, and turn your head toward him, but you don't really know why you turned your head until you are facing each other. That's subconscious. Or you don't realise that you have railed someone until you see that frag message. That happens to me pretty often.

To wrap it up, it's pretty much like the jedi skill RoOst3r posted, but the explanation is more scientific :). The human brain is incredible, believe in it ;).


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 11, 2009, 09:41:48 AM
Quote
This guy seems to be so ease with predicted players position just in every map , also when apparently there are not any visual reference ( a item , an armor , a health ball ... an object in the map , a visual reference in the sky ... something ) ... wow ... definitely he's ease with vectorial speed calculation : linear speed in ups and direction expressed with x,y,z coordinates ... maybe he can solve any differential equation without writing anything on paper .... or MAYBE .... BUT MAYBE .... he "has" the same attitude of CPMA bots at a level equal or higher than 86 , when the evil RL is enabled and your position is predicted just on EVERY SHOTED ROCKET.

You are mixing the conscious and subconscious mind. The conscious mind is responsible for solving mathematical problems, the subconscious is for regulating your breathing, balance when you move etc. While you're right that adding two 3D vectors uses the conscious mind and requires a lot of time and concentration, navigation in 3D space and hitting targets is controlled by the subconscious mind.

I was trying to explain in a sarcastic way , that he used a bot ( a piece of code ) : 3D Q3 reality is generated by code and if u use another piece of code that reads the same values and vectors , it doesn't need to learn . It just reads values , calculates the right angle and shots : ALL in the time interval of a MOUSE CLICK. And there's no way this to be different because Q3 3D is a limited-self-contained world : there could not be any casual events or any relativistic effect that can change this behavoiur. And again , in VQ3 air control is limited : u cannot significantly adjust your trajectory ( u cannot curve as in CPM )


A good football player could make a run and throw 100%. He was asked to put special goggles on, which shorted his sight, so he had seen the objects closer than they really were. With the goggles on he was again asked to throw the ball, and guess what: he failed 10 times in a row. After a while his brain got used to the sight and reset his hand-eye control, and again he could hit the running guy 100%. After the goggles were removed he again needed some time to regain his skills.

That's a point for me , because I was present in most of the matches recorded and he was too fast to adapt his prediction skills by a map with certain jumpers and distances to another one.

How much do Gerbil and RoOst3r play OpenArena? 4 hours a day or more? Shooting air rockets is like breathing for them, because their subconscious know pretty much about the OpenArena world.

That's what I pointed here : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3262.msg26724#msg26724

About airrockets : with practice u can have a high percentage of airockets placed expecially in overplayed maps or after playing a long game session .... but what u cannot do for sure is easily adapting your prediction capacity to many different jumpers/distance : not all the jumpers have all the same speed and other players are usual to RJ over them : if u see a player doing airrockets in quite all situations in a easy way as drinking water , it could be much more than a suspect.

You can see that in every flick rail

The problem I was trying to point is that those flick rails seen in the video seem to be too much serial ( the movement , the distance of the target ... )

You got no response because this is the first time I have ever heard you wanted demos. When and where did you ask me for demos? If the only response you got back was a lot of clucking and pecking then you asked the wrong rooster.

Ok shame on me ... but where's the link for demos ?


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on September 12, 2009, 04:50:04 AM
You got no response because this is the first time I have ever heard you wanted demos. When and where did you ask me for demos? If the only response you got back was a lot of clucking and pecking then you asked the wrong rooster.
Ok shame on me ... but where's the link for demos ?

I finally found your request for demos. You posted it on the RN forums under the section "Art and design" which is hidden unless you have an account.

http://rainbow.furver.se/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1602&start=15

It's funny that you thought I would reply to a post in a hidden section of a forum for a European clan when you know I am an American player and have no reason to have an account there. Using that to then heavily imply that I am a botter because I have never responded to you is pathetic at best. You could have posted your request to any of the four forums, this one included, that I posted my video on if you wanted me to see it. It's quite apparent from your comments that you have already convicted me based on nothing more than assumptions. Now you want me to supply you with what you think is proof since you were too lazy to spend the time spectating me and collecting it yourself.

Fine. I will release the demos for you and let you choose how I do it.

Choice #1
When I get around to it I will post the demos on some hidden area of some random American forum on the internet that you will only be able to see if you have an account to it. If you get lucky and find it you will then have all the demos you wanted.

Choice #2
I have hundreds if not thousands of demos. Getting those demos means loading up my old video and going through clip by clip writing down where each one came from. Then compiling a list of demos matched with times. I am not interested in wasting my time in helping you in your feeble attempts to try and prove that I bot. So send me $50 U.S. dollars, as a nuisance fee, and I will post all the demos wherever you want.
 


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: pulchr on September 12, 2009, 04:55:18 AM
:D


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 12, 2009, 05:44:48 PM

I finally found your request for demos. You posted it on the RN forums under the section "Art and design" which is hidden unless you have an account.

http://rainbow.furver.se/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1602&start=15

It's funny that you thought I would reply to a post in a hidden section of a forum for a European clan when you know I am an American player and have no reason to have an account there. Using that to then heavily imply that I am a botter because I have never responded to you is pathetic at best. You could have posted your request to any of the four forums, this one included, that I posted my video on if you wanted me to see it... Now you want me to supply you with what you think is proof since you were too lazy to spend the time spectating me and collecting it yourself.

I've replied only there simply because I didn't yet have an account on OA forum. There's nothing to deal with your nationality or your origin; and I talk by myself : I've used Joki's draw only because it's a representation of what I want to explain.
You can search for my old posts on RN about cheaters and discover that it didn't deal with nationality and/or player's origin.
Anyway I've asked for your demos at the Nemesis many times after the video was published even if u've apparently disappeared.
But I'm quite sure u've read my request directly there too , even if you've joined with fake nicks.
And since I've accused directly you _BEFORE_ the video was released , I've tried hard to record you for a full game session but I was not able to do simply because u were going on spec on the next map exactly when I was going on spec too to record you ( what a coincidence )



It's quite apparent from your comments that you have already convicted me based on nothing more than assumptions.

Well you and Gerbil are trying to convince forum readers that I'm noob , paranoid , obsessioned , useless , mindless , pathetic, that my english is s*it ( because you know that I'm Italian and the stereotype of "The Italian talking Spaghetti english" is still popular) ... etc etc etc ... and that your video is full of authentic skills with so many words that all the speech seems more like a political speech than a rational explanation of facts.

In my experience facts are always simple and can be perfectly expressed by talking/writing in a sysnthetic way.
So I will be synthetic : I suggest to ppl to focus on this 2 points while watching this video :
- easy adaptation to different jumpers and distances while "airocketing" other players
- too much serialized "flick rails" ( the movement , the DISTANCE of the target )



Fine. I will release the demos for you and let you choose how I do it.

First of all , if u will release demos, u will do not only for me , but for all ppl interested now and that could be interested in the future since the video is on youtube.
Will u ask for money also if other members of the OA community will ask for demos ?
Because it's a good and fair practice of the really skilled players to release demos used to edit a frag/trick video ( eg quake3 Event Horizon 2 defrag trick video , most of the CPM community productions .... )



direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE

I can clearly remember at least 3 times when I catched more than 100 hp of damage to my opponent with a direct (air)rocket :
- on aggressor map : after taking MH , picking LG , going to take the YA under the SG place in front of the teleport for RG , I've fragged him with a direct rocket while jumping over YA ( more than 100 hp of damage )
- on aggressor map : after taking MH, I've fragged my opponent with a direct rocket while he was jumping in air and going back to the stairs to pick RG ( again , more than 100 hp of damage )
- on oa_ctf4 map : after taking MH in the middle , my opponent took the jumper for the SG platform and I've fragged him with a direct rocket ( more than 100 hp of damage again )

Negative timenudge effect, prediction error, physics' bug ? IDK.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on September 12, 2009, 08:14:10 PM
Quote
I've replied only there simply because I didn't yet have an account on OA forum. There's nothing to deal with your nationality or your origin; and I talk by myself.
...
You can search for my old posts on RN about cheaters and discover that it didn't deal with nationality and/or player's origin.
I think you missed rooster's point. He's simply saying he's american, so it's somehow normal if he's not registered (yet :D) on, for example, our french speaking forum (http://openarena.tuxfamily.org/forum/index.php), because localization is important when you have a clan, not to have a too high ping when you play, I think you know that. Also, don't feel too lonely being Italian, I'm french and I believe we've got a quite bad educationnal system here when it comes to teach english, so yeah, maybe I misunderstood too.

I was quite impressed by the moves rooster makes with his railgun ("flick-rails" then) because the few Q3 frag movies I watched didn't show that kind of things, now I'm a bit less impressed by these rocket shoots (even if they are quite good), maybe because I'm myself doing okay with a RL, and also because if like me you've seen some of these Q3 movies you should already know how good some players can be with it.

To sum up I see no cheating at all in that video, it's fun to see how suspicious you can be (robots conspiracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXa9tXcMhXQ) ?), but I also fear the more you investigate the less you are credible.

PS: I can also tell I've never felt like making/receiving 100+ damage with any rocket, nor with some rail hit.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 13, 2009, 09:11:30 AM
And u are using again the term of hacking : infact everyone knows Rooster's Q3 and/or OA mod ( *sarcastic* ) ... actually nor Rooster , neither you is able to "hack" a tube that is lacking water.
I wrote that the video was blamed as "FULL OF CHEATS" at QL forum , so blame QL forum not me for this ...
So why bother posting that here in the first place...

[/quote]
I've replied only there simply because I didn't yet have an account on OA forum.
I had no idea it was so difficult to make an account on this forum.


Well you and Gerbil are trying to convince forum readers that I'm noob , paranoid , obsessioned , useless , mindless , pathetic
If anyone was following this, they would have already been convinced that your all those things after reading my quote of your post on the RN forums ;)


that my english is s*it ( because you know that I'm Italian and the stereotype of "The Italian talking Spaghetti english" is still popular)
Wow you are just full of far fetched assumptions Falkland!
I had no idea you were Italian, and had no idea there was an "Italian talking spaghetti English" stereotype. I couldn't care less what country you live in, nor what language you nativity speak. All I am saying is that your some of your posts are next to impossible to read. I think it is pretty funny you assumed that everyone automatically knows your Italian and is judging you based off of that.

... etc etc etc ... and that your video is full of authentic skills with so many words that all the speech seems more like a political speech than a rational explanation of facts.
political speach? wat


First of all , if u will release demos, u will do not only for me , but for all ppl interested now and that could be interested in the future since the video is on youtube.
Will u ask for money also if other members of the OA community will ask for demos ?
Because it's a good and fair practice of the really skilled players to release demos used to edit a frag/trick video ( eg quake3 Event Horizon 2 defrag trick video , most of the CPM community productions .... )
hate to break it to you, but you are THE ONLY ONE that is convinced that rooster is cheating. I am very confident that you are in fact THE ONLY ONE who wants to get these demos.

[/quote]


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 13, 2009, 11:42:08 AM
And u are using again the term of hacking : infact everyone knows Rooster's Q3 and/or OA mod ( *sarcastic* ) ... actually nor Rooster , neither you is able to "hack" a tube that is lacking water.
I wrote that the video was blamed as "FULL OF CHEATS" at QL forum , so blame QL forum not me for this ...
So why bother posting that here in the first place...

I've wrote that Rooster is not able to hack , not unable to USE a hack that someone else made .
And about the GetQuaked3 , the quad carnage on q3dm6 doesn't seem to be made by a human.

I had no idea it was so difficult to make an account on this forum.

I was not intentioned to get an account here indeed.


If anyone was following this, they would have already been convinced that your all those things after reading my quote of your post on the RN forums ;)

Of course and since you are the God of OA they venerate and will venerate you for life.


hate to break it to you, but you are THE ONLY ONE that is convinced that rooster is cheating. I am very confident that you are in fact THE ONLY ONE who wants to get these demos.

Another excuse to escape the request and not to post the demos indeed.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 13, 2009, 06:26:51 PM
... so yeah, maybe I misunderstood too....

Rooster's and Gerbil's opinion is that I've wrote the post on RN in a hidden section in the same way as a kid writes "I hate this , I hate that" in his secret diary... so their thesis are all against me , my person ...  but in my opinion they are using this argument for not posting the demos.

I don't know how I can define this .

but I also fear the more you investigate the less you are credible.

Sure , I see that they are very nice persons.

PS: I can also tell I've never felt like making/receiving 100+ damage with any rocket, nor with some rail hit.

Neither me indeed but my opponents confirmed that to me too ( eg : "You've catched me 200hp .. HOW ?" ... and so on )


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 13, 2009, 11:39:50 PM
I've wrote that Rooster is not able to hack , not unable to USE a hack that someone else made .
And about the GetQuaked3 , the quad carnage on q3dm6 doesn't seem to be made by a human.
does it matter? neither were hacking, I don't see why you have so much difficulty getting this through to your head. T_T

Of course and since you are the God of OA they venerate and will venerate you for life.
I said that they would read your RN post and be able to deduce that you are indeed "noob , paranoid , obsessioned , useless , mindless , pathetic" all by themselves.

Another excuse to escape the request and not to post the demos indeed.
basically rooster doesn't want to post the demos because of all the time it would take to look through them all finding the ones he wants. Personally I think he could just post ALL of the demos, and let you sort through them ALL yourself. Maybe he would be able to compress them all in one massive ass zip file or something. Either way, it's a LOT of work to satisfy one single noob that seems to be completely incapable of listening to common sense.

but I also fear the more you investigate the less you are credible.
Sure , I see that they are very nice persons.
What cacatoes says is very correct, if you have done any research or non-fiction reading, you will know that finding any false information will GREATLY reduce the credibility of that source. If that source can be wrong in one area, what is stopping it from being wrong in others? Why should I trust a source I already know is incorrect? The more you investigate and accuse people who are obviously not hacking, the more people will not trust your judgment.

Neither me indeed but my opponents confirmed that to me too ( eg : "You've catched me 200hp .. HOW ?" ... and so on )
I am very skeptical about this, perhaps a teammate hit with a rail right before getting shot. Demos would be nice :P


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on September 14, 2009, 05:38:30 AM
I think you missed rooster's point. He's simply saying he's american, so it's somehow normal if he's not registered (yet :D) on, for example, our french speaking forum (http://openarena.tuxfamily.org/forum/index.php), because localization is important when you have a clan, not to have a too high ping when you play, I think you know that.

Thank you Cacatoes that is my point exactly.

but I also fear the more you investigate the less you are credible.
Sure , I see that they are very nice persons.

Ah sarcasm. Is your definition of a nice person someone who puts up with your insults and slander?

...but in my opinion they are using this argument for not posting the demos.

You take things way to negatively. This is your chance to grow and improve as a human being. It's the life lesson that if you want something from someone and act like a prick you get what you deserve.

In my experience facts are always simple and can be perfectly expressed by talking/writing in a sysnthetic way. So I will be synthetic : I suggest to ppl to focus on this 2 points while watching this video :
- easy adaptation to different jumpers and distances while "airocketing" other players
- too much serialized "flick rails" ( the movement , the DISTANCE of the target )

You don't know what a fact is. A fact is something that can be proved, or known to be true. All you have is assumptions, opinions, and beliefs. It's a fact that you cant have fire without oxygen. It's provable, take oxygen out of the equation and see what happens. In a sane world how can you say that any of your statements are proof of an aimbot? Too many flick rails = aimbot? How many flick rails is too many? Let me guess the magic number of flick rail botness is 4? Can't you see how foolish that is?

Your methods for proving someone is an aimbot is like something out of the dark ages for proving someone is a witch. Simply have the witch place his/her head on a chopping block. Aim an axe at their kneck and swing. If the person is a witch the axe will bounce off their kneck so you burn them. If the person is innocent then the axe will simply slice his/her head off.

I really don't care that you think I am an aimbot. What I do care about is that you don't try to PROVE anything. Instead you try to PERSUADE everyone you are right. The following is a perfect example.

direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE
I can clearly remember at least 3 times when I catched more than 100 hp of damage to my opponent with a direct (air)rocket :
- on aggressor map : after taking MH , picking LG , going to take the YA under the SG place in front of the teleport for RG , I've fragged him with a direct rocket while jumping over YA ( more than 100 hp of damage )
- on aggressor map : after taking MH, I've fragged my opponent with a direct rocket while he was jumping in air and going back to the stairs to pick RG ( again , more than 100 hp of damage )
- on oa_ctf4 map : after taking MH in the middle , my opponent took the jumper for the SG platform and I've fragged him with a direct rocket ( more than 100 hp of damage again )

Negative timenudge effect, prediction error, physics' bug ? IDK.

How many times have I heard you make this argument? Do you ever try to PROVE it? No. Instead you try to PERSUADE everyone you are right. The proof is at your fingertips and yet you still do nothing. OpenArena is an open source game. Go get the code and find where it applies more than 100 points of damage. Then post that code to prove your point. Can it get any easier? Start at least attempting to prove something.... anything...


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 14, 2009, 08:56:58 AM
In my experience facts are always simple and can be perfectly expressed by talking/writing in a sysnthetic way. So I will be synthetic : I suggest to ppl to focus on this 2 points while watching this video :
- easy adaptation to different jumpers and distances while "airocketing" other players
- too much serialized "flick rails" ( the movement , the DISTANCE of the target )

You don't know what a fact is. A fact is something that can be proved, or known to be true.

So independently of my "supposition" that u were cheating , you are contesting also that you are easy to airrocket ppl at different ranges and that flick rails are too much serialized in movement and distance of target ... *gulp*

And the only real method to proof that someone is a cheater or not is knowing the content of his/her installation ; well known players are known to be good because during LAN parties their PCs are controlled before and after the competition.

I have never read something like this in a reply to my post about cheating ; I've never read anything about how we could implement a basic control system ... _ NOTHING_  and _NOTHING_ against cheaters .

All my trying to focus on the problem of cheaters is written on the toilet paper ... the main characteristic of a good player for most of you  is to be a _WINNER_ , to _WIN_ : I still didn't meet yet a single player (**** EDIT : I'm terribly wrong here ... Super,Grism of the Super,Bots team - http://superbots.co.cc/ - usually spends most of his time to examine the candidated players to join his team **** ) that really focuses on the problem of _HOW_ a supposed good player wins.

OpenArena is an open source game. Go get the code and find where it applies more than 100 points of damage.

Oh here's the coder spirit ... is so absurde the idea that I've already try to find a reference to this ?

anyway , dear skilled coder , dear hacker , dear GOD of the source code ... u should know that every code is made to work in a way , but it could happen in certain condition or even in normal condition , that the generated binary code doesn't work as expected .

We call it BUG. There are 2 kinds of bugs : bugs that makes the code instable, unusable, crashing ... etc and bugs that simply produce some unpredictable/unwanted/not calculated effects.

Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).

And this is so fu**ing true that is the base for explaining the doppler effect ( which is an effect of every wave form phenomen )

Finally there are two nice common saying that we have in Italy : idk if u have them also in english , but the meaning is not so obscure
- Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire ( there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear )
- Meglio soli che male accompagnati ( better beeing alone that in a bad company )

*Click*


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: dbX on September 14, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
Quote
there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear
This can be applied to you too. It works vice versa.
Quote
better beeing alone that in a bad company
We are a bad company. You are a bad person.

Falkland, you are like a Duracell battery, you keep going on and on and on and on...

About that damage bug thing. You are imagining this, as I'm quite sure ID Software and the ioquake3 team would have fixed it a long time ago. If there is such a bug other people would probably report it, but you are the first person I've heard of claiming the existence of this bug. Record a demo where this happens and file a freaking bug report. I'm sure that won't be too hard, as you say, this bug exists so it'll happen again. There are hundreds if not thousands of peopple who use the Quake 3 engine. I'm quite sure someone would notice it by now. Most professional players know how much damage each weapon does in each condition(e.g. normal or a quad damage) and the entire game dynamic is known to most players. What proof do you have that this bug exists? You ask Rooster for demos as you want proof, but what proof do you give? I know what a bug is, I'm a programmer and I do debugging every day so I don't buy your fairy tales.

Perhaps Rooster is a cheater, but your evidence against him is shallow. What Rooster does is nothing unusual. If anyone played as much as him they could kick the living hell out of a bot. There are people I've played UT with who just run around the map and do headshots like it's breathing. They miss mostly once or twice in a sequence of 20 headshots, and sometimes not even that much. In quake it's even easier as you don't need to shoot at the head. Just because you suck at games does not mean everyone else does. Just like in every profession, there are difference between people and sometimes they are huge. People like Rooster do this for years. Even I sometimes get lucky and flick-rail people 6 times in a row.

Rooster puts his best stuff in the video. I am quite sure that he also has some demos where he sucked, but you don't put your sucking in a frag video. If I made a video that had all my best shots I'd seem as good as Rooster. It still does not mean I'm a cheater, it just means I put my best material in a video. If you play OA a lot, you'll have a lot of this material, if you play it casually you may not have as much.

I am quite sure that you will find a argument against everything I said, and I am also sure you're going to post it and try to make me believe I can't think for myself and that I follow blindly to what everyone says against you. You have not realized this yet, but the odds are against you.  Yes, you are the smartest being in the universe and we are all bunch of idiots who can't think with our heads and we follow blindly to whatever Rooster says.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 14, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
I will not answer to you about the frag movie anymore , neither to Rooster , Gerbil or someone else since I suck , I am paranoid , useless, mindless, idiot ... etc etc etc ...

Anyway :

There are people I've played UT with who just run around the map and do headshots like it's breathing. They miss mostly once or twice in a sequence of 20 headshots, and sometimes not even that much

But with which weapon ? It's quite impossible doing that with AK-103 without an aimbot. AK-103 is known to be difficult to manage because of the impossible recoil ( h t t p://www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=bwT0mIN51nw ) and since UrT weapons behaviour is quite almost close to the reality , I'd expect the same thing in the game unless u know well the weapon's characteristics , fire with single shots at high range ... etc etc etc ...

I'd not expect for sure while specting all bullets going over target at high/mid range while the weapon is in auto mode.

And I was accused to cheat on UrT in bomb mode while playing in ut_elgin and ut_harbortown : in their opinion I was using a wallhack to know ( to see , at this point ) where the enemy was coming from.

I had patience in that occasion and I've explained how I was able to exactly know that.

In both of the maps there is a zone are 2 zones for each map in which you can hear the sound of a barking dog when u pass near it.

Easy to know where the enemy is coming from for me : just adjusting the volume and opening my ears to hear the barking dog , expecially in ut_harbortown.

And this is coming from my personal experience : a dog is barkering when it ( but I would really like to use he/she ) snorts an unknown person scent/hears an unknown rumor/sound ;

And as a confirmation of this FACT instead of describing some real facts happened to me and/or some cruel events I've indirectly known/understood , I can say you to watch at The Bourne Identity movie and see that the first thing that one of the killers that wants to kill Bourne does , is killing the dog so to not permit to the dog it didn't giving a single signal of the killer's presence with its barkering.

So I am sorry to not be experienced in "your game" artificial/virtual physics/reality.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: dbX on September 14, 2009, 12:36:09 PM
Quote
But with which weapon?

It was UrT99, it was almost 4 years ago, they were using sniper rifles and there were no aimbots as we were in the same room(and there are always people looking over your shoulders at what you are doing) and had everyone's PCs checked. It was a LAN party. Usually these people are called sniper wh0res and they specialize for snipers, which causes them to suck at limited space combat.

I don't believe UrT has close to reality weapons. They don't even come remotely near reality, at least not those in UrT 99 and none of them had any recoil. Played little of UrT 2004 and none of UrT 3.

I also used to play Counter-Strike 1.6, got tired of it because you can't tell who is cheating and who is not, got kicked/banned too many times because I was falsely accused of cheating. Shooting people with an AWP is not a wallhack unless there is actually a wall between. Must have been an air-hack :) Most servers close to me are lousy, so I don't play CS anymore. The game is great. Most people playing it are not.

I am not quite sure what you meant when you said "your game".


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 14, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
It was UrT99

I've assumed u were talking about UrbanTerror not Unreal Tournment.

I am not quite sure what you meant when you said "your game".

that it's not mine.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 14, 2009, 10:59:59 PM
Quote from: Falkland
there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear
Oh sweet irony!

It's funny, I don't think you even READ all of what I type in a post. You just skim over, find parts you think you can argue, and ignore the rest. Whenever I make a point that is valid, you simply ignore it, pretend it never happened and continue on making another outragous claim.

Falkland I can argue and prove you wrong on every single thing you have said in pretty much every post I have made to reply to yours. I challenge you to do better. Look back on what I have posted and just TRY to argue against me.

Quite frankly Falkland, you are too stupid to attempt to have a debate with, you are no challenge at all whatsoever. You do not know your facts and make outrageous claims without any thought at all. If you did give it any thought, you should be seriously reconsidering what you know.



So independently of my "supposition" that u were cheating , you are contesting also that you are easy to airrocket ppl at different ranges and that flick rails are too much serialized in movement and distance of target ... *gulp*
He said that you have absolutely no proof, absolutely no evidence, and he is absolutely right. As everyone has told you countless times before, it is split second estimation and shoot. If it was easy it would not be in the video, no? Many of the shots I am sure had some luck involved, but it is humanly possible to make those shots without luck. THIS IS A FACT. it has been done before on COUNTLESS occcasions. You cannot argue this. You are claiming that because he can land an air rocket, he MUST MUST MUST be hacking. You have no evidence, therefore you have NO FACT TO YOUR CLAIM. Your only evidence for him hacking is that he is good. Last time I checked you do not need to hack to be good. Olympic athletes do not hack. Professional athletes not need to hack, but they can accomplish feats which are beyond impossible to you and I.


And the only real method to proof that someone is a cheater or not is knowing the content of his/her installation ; well known players are known to be good because during LAN parties their PCs are controlled before and after the competition.
some truth, however, There are plenty of air rockets that would have been impossible with hacking. Many air rockets rely on the targets independant movement. When he shoots a rocket before they go on a jumppad, he is predicting that the target is THINKING, something that an aimbot cannot do. We also saw ourselves in the video some shots and rockets which were totally totally off. An aimbot would have never made such an error. Besides, if rooster was hacking, I certainly would have expected a better frag video than that. Those flick rails would have been pitiful for a someone with an aimbott ;).



I have never read something like this in a reply to my post about cheating ; I've never read anything about how we could implement a basic control system ... _ NOTHING_  and _NOTHING_ against cheaters .
you mean this? http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3295.0
If I misunderstood your horrendous English my apologies.

All my trying to focus on the problem of cheaters is written on the toilet paper ... the main characteristic of a good player for most of you  is to be a _WINNER_ , to _WIN_ : I still didn't meet yet a single player (**** EDIT : I'm terribly wrong here ... Super,Grism of the Super,Bots team - http://superbots.co.cc/ - usually spends most of his time to examine the candidated players to join his team **** ) that really focuses on the problem of _HOW_ a supposed good player wins.
This comment is extremely out of place. So are you trying to say that good players do not win? Are you saying that players focus too much on winning and not on how to win? Because this is a massive assumption with no proof at all. Have you even talked to anybody? I mean, most of the openarena players are very casual, and do not care about winning at all. The other casual players will practice to get better, and they focus on the "how" because that's the only way you get better. I believe that clans such as 6R and RN have regular skirmishes with each other to get better. /V/ as well as /oaN/ have team meetings for practice. There are many players who are not in clans that practice. Bloodstain was on oa one morning because he said he wanted to get better, he wanted to practice. Ragnarok practices every day to get better. All of these examples are of people focusing on the HOW. I have no fucking clue how you jumped to
the conclusion that nobody cares about how you get better. Every time you join a server you will find proof against your nonsense claim.
Personally I don't care much for winning. I always join the weaker/losing team and in the end, I will lose more matches then win. I myself am an example against your point.


Oh here's the coder spirit ... is so absurde the idea that I've already try to find a reference to this ?
is it so absurd that I can't understand your god damn grammar?


anyway , dear skilled coder , dear hacker , dear GOD of the source code ... u should know that every code is made to work in a way , but it could happen in certain condition or even in normal condition , that the generated binary code doesn't work as expected .

We call it BUG. There are 2 kinds of bugs : bugs that makes the code instable, unusable, crashing ... etc and bugs that simply produce some unpredictable/unwanted/not calculated effects.
ok, so bring back a demo with one of these "over 100 damage" rockets I have heard so much about FROM YOU ALONE.

Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).
congragulations for showing off your basic knowledge of painfully simple phsics! THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC SO STFU

And this is so fu**ing true that is the base for explaining the doppler effect ( which is an effect of every wave form phenomen )
again with the useless information. Everybody knows about the doppler effect so shut up already.

Finally there are two nice common saying that we have in Italy : idk if u have them also in english , but the meaning is not so obscure
- Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire ( there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear )
- Meglio soli che male accompagnati ( better beeing alone that in a bad company )

*Click*
You obviously do not read anything anyone ever says. The whole world is shouting that this video is authentic, but here is Falkland, deaf as can be. This poor poor Falkland, if only he could hear, then maybe he would understand why he alone is the only one who thinks that there is hacking in roosters video.

Perhaps the company is good, but there is one bad leg dragging the whole thing down.



To sum up, you my good friend Falkland, are an adamant fool, incapable of putting up any fight in sensible debate. I will politely ask for you to hold your idiot tongue before you have any material proof of hacking at all.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 15, 2009, 06:23:05 AM
Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).
congragulations for showing off your basic knowledge of painfully simple phsics!

Yeah , it's so simple that carmack didn't know that (or voluntary ignored it ? ). But I can understand : there were not so many internet resources ( eg Wikipedia ).

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC

I was giving an example of a VQ3 physics bug.

There are plenty of air rockets that would have been impossible with hacking. Many air rockets rely on the targets independant movement. When he shoots a rocket before they go on a jumppad, he is predicting that the target is THINKING, something that an aimbot cannot do.

This conclusion is wrong : you are assuming that the virtual world in which players fight is coerent, but it's not ... the server sends snapshots of the game , not in realtime. Every player is working on his copy of the world. And every client has clientside prediction to mantain the world as coerent as possible ( try cg_nopredict 1 to see what I mean ). U would be right if the world operations would be done in realtime. An aimbot can predict your position simply because works on the local client copy of the game world and/or by accessing to the client world snapshots received from the server and/or using the client predict code and/or because reads and knows the jumpers' and the players'  speeds directly through the client code.

U were pointed that quoting the CPMA bots characteristics is useless , but the CPMA bots do exactly this at level higher than 86 81 with RL : predict your position.

And that's so easier in VQ3 because once the player is going , he cannot significantly change his/her trajectory ( he can strafe but he cannot curve in air as in CPM ).



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: HITMAN on September 15, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Please ignore the ignorant rants of people who live to start an argument. This post was made let people know Rooster had a new video out..(early this year).  We all know falkland will be "that guy". I think everyone had made their point. Anything said after is just feeding into his nonsense.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 16, 2009, 02:12:14 PM
Please ignore the ignorant rants of people who live to start an argument.

Well , math's experts are not welcome in Las Vegas casinos and that's a risk that u don't and will not run ever.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 19, 2009, 12:33:29 PM
I've said I'd not come back on the topic but since I've received other personal attacks , I found time and decided to write hopefully a resonable enough explanation ( for you ) of why quite almost Rooster's video content is resonable enough suspicious ; all by using logic since I can't have access to Rooster's installation and/or to the set of demos used for producing the video.

A human reaction is driven by events ( vision, sounds, position prediction driven by estimation and/or map knowledge - items, teleports ... ) while a bot reaction is almost driven by data ( actually brainworks bot have also a support for giving reactions driven by sounds and vision (*) ) even if it tries to simulate human reaction.
Every event is interpreted by players as a ring bell for paying much more attention at what will happen immediately after. As an example you can read this old post on how usually players start to pay much more attention at entities spawn : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1834

Now I will give you an example of reaction driven by events through the analysis of some parts of this video ( http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2579 ) made and edited by the uscpmpickup guys , which are "certified" PROs. Most of the content is based on duels where things are very different than CTF , but it's anyway a good example.

- the first example is a railshot at 1m and 29s ( more or less ) : the map is cpm3a which is one of the most used in duels ; there's a spawn point and a teleport where the opponent is fragged and if you pay the right attention you can hear the teleport/spawn sound : a classic reaction guided by events and knowledge of the map ( he knows well there's a teleport/spawn point ; the teleport is the exit of the one in front of Red armor : it's quite common running the risk of shoting enemy there because he could come after taking ra or he could spawn there and go to take the RL and/or the LG and/or the YA and/or the corridor to the MH room. )
- the second example is another railshot at 1m 35s ( more or less ) : the same map cpm3a ; again there's a teleport there and u can hear the sound of it ( it's the exit of the portal placed in that little room where the player was fragged in the previous action at 1m 29s ) but the human reaction is driven also by the rocket that the enemy has shoted revealing his posistion.
- at 3m 36s there's a nice rocket shot driven by a teleport event.
- at 3m 41s there are 4 close and consecutive frags : the first is a railshot guided by a teleport event ( the map is cpm22 ) , then the player takes the teleport to have a visibility from a higher position waiting for the spawn event ; he suddenly fragged his opponent after spwaning with a single rocket ( in CPMA the player spawns with 100hp and rockets' speed is 1000 ups ) , then the opponent spawned again in a zone controlled by the killer and again the player spawnfragged him and finally the opponent spawned in a relatively hidden zone , but again he was spawn fragged simply because after hearing the spawn sound , the player predicted that his opponent would go to get a rocket and the enemy was enough inexpert to go there instead of taking teleport to RG .
- at 4m 51s there's a railshot driven by the combination of the knowledge of where the enemy would be after he took the MH teleport and the jumper sound.

Now let's analyze some parts of the Rooster video. I will (or at least try to) explain why many of the shots in the Rooster's Just Killing Time video seems to be mostly data driven instead :

- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.
- 0m 45s : UnnamedPlayer is on his visual , but he fragged him only after he disappeared by its visual ( like he had a bind like "/bind MOUSE1 +aim; +shot" or the autoaim is synchronized to shot when the enemy is at a certain distance or the autoaim simply shots at the closest enemy )
- 0m 57s : He fired a rocket that exactly hit the player coming out of the teleport ( the bot can know a player is taking a teleport before the event is drawn on the screen )
- 1m 25s : same as at 0m 45s
- 1m 31s : same as at 0m 45s
- 2m 10s : same as at 0m 45s but he didn't have the enemy on his visual.
- 2m 45s : it seems the bot had a wallhack but also that the shot is fired only when the enemy is on free visual. If he instead heard for the enemy , it's higly improbable that he followed the footsteps without knowing that it's the flag carrier and its position while running.
- 3m 15s : same as at 0m 45s
- 3m 24s : what's the logic on shoting at enemy while falling in the void ? ( once the target is locked , the bot continues to aim on it until is get fragged )
- 3m 42s : same as 3m 24s
- 3m 44s : Think about it : he took the jumper and while going to the enemy base he shoted a perfect airocket after the enemy took the opposite jumper too. ( the bot knows rocket speed - constantly 900 ups , even if the player is running at 2000 ups - and the jumper speed taken by enemy and adjust aiming angle a little bit before shooting rocket )
- 4m 21s : same as at 2m 10s
- 4m 24s : same as at 2m 10s ( the enemy was on his back )
- 4m 59s : perfect airocket while enemy is falling over the jumper under the enemy base on oa_ctf2
- 5m 03s : another perfect airocket after the enemy took the jumper; pay attention at the "presumed MOUSE movement" : it continues to remain fixed on the same position after shoting the rocket even if it was very quick ( again , the bot adjust aiming angle because of the exact knowledge of the rocket speed and the jumper speed )
- 5m 06s : another perfect airocket while he enemy is falling over the jumper under the enemy base on oa_ctf2 : he didn't even tried to shot him while he was still over the platform ... the enemy is fragged in quite the same identical position as seen at 4m 59s
- 5m 18s : same as at 4m 24s
- 5m 36s : same as at 2m 10s ( the enemy was covered by the ramp )
- 5m 40s : it appears as a lucky shot ... a too lucky shot ... a very too lucky shot ... maybe not exactly a lucky shot
- 5m 43s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 05s : another under water lucky shot ? or did the bot wallhack help him ?
- 6m 28s : same as at 2m 10s
- 6m 30s : same as at 2m 10s
- 6m 32s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 34s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 36s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 38s : same as at 0m 45s
...


By summarizing all the "strange" or "supposed lucky" events , it's highly improbable to be driven all by luck and they look like too much serial to be done by human estimations, also because the demos were produced in a relative short time ( months ).

I think the video is a spot for the presumed Rooster skill/superiority and/or presumed attitude ( killing time ? ) , not a good spot for OA.

(*) - quoted from http://code.google.com/p/quake3-brainworks/

Quote
Brainworks is a Quake 3 mod designed to give Quake 3 Arena bots working brains. It is a complete rewrite of all the Artificial Intelligence used by the bots. Brainworks includes:

    * Sound and visual awareness system
    * Randomized dodging in battles
    * Avoidance of incoming missiles
    * Strafejumping
    * Improved enemy aiming
    * Goal and score-based selection of item pickups
    * Timing of item respawns
    * Dynamic weapon selection (based on weapon accuracy)
    * Redesigned internal goal selection
    * Redesigned internal aim selection
    * Redesigned Teamplay logic
    * Rewritten chat code
    * Redesigned internal logic infrastructure

The goal of Brainworks is to make Quake 3 Arena bots as human-like as possible. With that in mind, the following human equivalents were set as the "goal for realism" for each bot.

    * Skill 1: Someone who has played Q3A for less than 2 weeks
    * Skill 2: Someone who has played Q3A for less than 3 months
    * Skill 3: Average player on a public server
    * Skill 4: The best player on a public server
    * Skill 5: A clan player who plays in professional tournaments

Obviously it's harder to make realistic skill 5 bots than skill 1 bots, but we've done everything we can in a reasonable amount of time to reach these five goals for realistic bots.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: chaoticsoldier on September 19, 2009, 08:58:39 PM
I pulled out RoOst3r's video (the full 300mb mp4 version) and I was going to look through your whole argument point by point, but I only made it as far as the first one:

- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.

I played the video frame by frame and the player (coreduo) NEVER spawned on screen. She was already standing there in the first frame of that scene. In fact, it seems she was already firing her machine gun at the time due to the bullet marks appearing on the left wall and the muzzle flash from her gun!

The time it takes for the player to spawn (supposing they even spawned there at all) and fire a few shots from the MG is more than enough time for RoOst3r to consciously register their presence and start firing. By the way, if you look carefully you'll see RoOst3r even switched from the Rail Gun to the Rocket Launcher first before firing.

Are you watching the right video Falkland?


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RoOst3r on September 20, 2009, 02:02:15 AM
- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.

Like chaoticsoldier said, that player never spawned. He was already there to begin with. You can see that by simply playing it in slow motion. Even if he did just barely spawn you argue that I couldn't have fragged him because he would have 125hp? According to you rockets in OA have been known to do much more than 100pts of damage. If that is true than your argument that I couldn't have done 125pts of damage with 2 rockets is wrong based on your previous argument that 1 rocket can do more than 100pts of damage.

direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE
I can clearly remember at least 3 times when I catched more than 100 hp of damage to my opponent with a direct (air)rocket :
- on aggressor map : after taking MH , picking LG , going to take the YA under the SG place in front of the teleport for RG , I've fragged him with a direct rocket while jumping over YA ( more than 100 hp of damage )
- on aggressor map : after taking MH, I've fragged my opponent with a direct rocket while he was jumping in air and going back to the stairs to pick RG ( again , more than 100 hp of damage )
- on oa_ctf4 map : after taking MH in the middle , my opponent took the jumper for the SG platform and I've fragged him with a direct rocket ( more than 100 hp of damage again )

Negative timenudge effect, prediction error, physics' bug ? IDK.

If instead you now believe that rockets do anywhere from 0-100pts of damage depending on whether it's a direct hit or splash damage then it can easily again be explained. One direct rocket at the end does 100pts of damage. That leaves 25pts of splash damage left to be done with the first rocket that landed at his feet. Easily plausible. I don't see what 125 in health has to do with anything even if he did just barely spawn which he clearly did not.

- 2m 45s : it seems the bot had a wallhack but also that the shot is fired only when the enemy is on free visual. If he instead heard for the enemy , it's higly improbable that he followed the footsteps without knowing that it's the flag carrier and its position while running.

If you watch it in slow motion you can watch someone jump down take the flag and rocket jump away with it. If you turn up the sound you can also hear the message the flag has been stolen. From my position you can see all the exits from the flag room except one which is above me. If he went for any of the other flag room exits we would see it in the movie from my position. We don't. That means he could have only gone a grand total of one route. So all you said above is incorrect. Even without the sound of him strafe jumping above me, which he did and we cant hear because of the music, we can still conclude he only went for one exit.

Your arguments against my flick rails where I see a target are deemed bot shots because I didn't initially shoot at the target. Did it ever occur to you I was trying to hit a flick rail? The others you say I didn't have a visual on the target. Meaning I never saw the target before I shot. You have no way of arguing that I didn't see a target in a full game because you didn't see it in a clip. Some of them like 4:21 and 4:24 you can clearly see if you slow it down. Others were edited out usually for time reasons to sync with music. Either way, just because part of the demo isn't in the movie doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are choosing to state that I never saw a target when there is no possible way for you to know whether I did or not.

- 6m 05s : another under water lucky shot ? or did the bot wallhack help him ?

Since when does anyone need a wallhack to see through a transparent 2d texture in any game?

I think the video is a spot for the presumed Rooster skill/superiority and/or presumed attitude ( killing time ? ) , not a good spot for OA.

I made the movie for my entertainment and the entertainment of others. I have never once said anything along the lines of look how awesome I am or about how I am so superior to anyone else at playing a game. Point to any post where I did. You can't because it doesn't exist. As for the movie title Just Killing Time? Thats an English saying. If you don't know what it means and choose to interpret it wrongly then thats your mistake not mine. I made the movie during college. In between 2 classes I was taking I had 3 hours of free time. I live far enough away that it would be a waste of time to drive home and then drive back again. So during the 3 hours, in between classes, I stayed and worked on the movie for fun. I just killed 3 hours of free time. Understand? That has absolutely nothing to do with me having a bad attitude.

I uploaded 4 demos of people using an aimbot in OA for reference. Anyone that's interested in seeing real examples of real aimbots to compare against me can find them here:

http://www.filefront.com/14565945/oa_aimbot_examples.rar/

I also played a couple games recently and recorded/uploaded those. I am sure Falkland will be able to come up with something to say about those as well.

http://www.filefront.com/14565951/oa_rooster_examples.rar/

I will probably start playing again at least for a little while and I will record those as well. So now Falkland you won't have to give some bs excuse about how every time you try to spectate me I immediately jump out so you cant.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 21, 2009, 10:52:03 PM
bla bla bla
massive noob rant
bla bla bla
PRICELESS


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 23, 2009, 01:46:39 PM
- What I've seen in the online video was a spawn frag. I downloaded the full version once ... deleted.
- The "more_than_100_HP_rockets_damage" thing happened for me in OA071 and with enemy in AIR ... I don't have OA071 anymore and since quite for sure this seems to be happened only to me, I'm not going to test the thing even if I could have OA071.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: dbX on September 23, 2009, 02:12:26 PM
   This is all beyond the point of sense. I can imagine Falkland chasing after RoOst3r to the tune of the Benny Hill Show theme song, all in fast forward and with silly running.

I suggest we make a poll, and vote if Ro0st3r is a cheater or not. I believe that is how they do it in democracy.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 23, 2009, 08:39:18 PM
sounds good to me


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: dbX on September 24, 2009, 02:46:33 AM
The poll is up in the multiplayer section. You can vote now if RoOst3r is a cheater or not.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RMF on September 24, 2009, 07:11:59 AM
It was UrT99

I've assumed u were talking about UrbanTerror not Unreal Tournment.
For me UrT is urban terror, and UT is unreal tournament. The names are very similar, but I think UT is the most used for unreal so UrT is for urban terror.
Though urban terror didn't exist '99, so that makes it confusing.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: dbX on September 24, 2009, 07:37:55 AM
I know. It's just that Falkland got me confused about this. When I wrote UT he thought it was Urban Terror.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: kick52 on September 24, 2009, 10:30:20 AM
Any old noob/average player could compile a video of once-in-a-million shots and look super hax awesome.

Just sayin' :P


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: sittingduck on September 24, 2009, 10:22:54 PM
This demo config works nicely if you're using Fraps. The size is right for HD. Encode with Handbrake using H.264, and your demo will look very nice on youtube, etc.
I used it for quakelive.... here's a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTQVz5B1ho

//[--Player Settings--]
set cg_forceteammodel "0"
set cg_drawfriend "0"
set cg_forceenemymodel "0"

//[--General Settings--]
set com_allowconsole "1"
set cg_fov "110"


//[--Video Settings--]
set r_fullscreen "1"
set r_dynamiclight "1"
set cg_shadows "1"
set r_enablepostprocess "1"
set r_picmip "0"
set r_gamma "1"
set r_fullbright "0"
set r_overbrightbits "1"
set r_mapoverbrightbits "3"
set r_vertexlight "0"
set r_fastsky "0"
set r_mode "-1"
set r_customwidth "1280"
set r_customheight "720"
set cg_draw3dicons "1"
set cg_simpleitems "0"
set cg_marks "1"
set cg_noprojectiletrail "1"
vid_restart


//[--Weapon Settings--]
set cg_drawgun "1"
set cg_autoswitch "0"
set cg_switchonempty "1"
set cg_brasstime "2500"
set cg_truelightning "1"

bind 8 "cl_avidemo 60"
bind 9 "cl_avidemo 0"


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: pulchr on September 26, 2009, 02:09:01 AM
sittingduck... don't show that video to falkland or you will be accused of using "tools assisted help" with the air rockets ;)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Falkland on September 26, 2009, 11:12:54 AM
Quote
Quake Live Hack with advanced aimbot


This advanced Quake Live hack can boost any player's skill to a very high level without raising suspicion thanks to a carefully engineered aimbot which makes use of extremely advanced humanization algorithms. Server ragers will be able to easily achieve accuracies exceeding 90%, while league cheaters will see a consistent improvement of their performance. Of course we're aware that in Quake Live you're required to act quickly and a single decision can matter a lot: that's why a clean and informative ESP is also included in our hack; this way you can be sure you never miss anything and can always make the most informed (and thus the best) choices. Finally, it's completely PB proof, meaning that it'll return clean screenshots and it won't be detected on PB enabled servers.

Aimbot

    * Advanced target selection algorithm
    * Extreme tracking mode - ideal for pwning servers!
    * Human aiming (highly customizable aim humanization, perfect for leagues!)
    * Configurable aim FOV
    * Autoshoot
    * Predicted autoshoot for enhanced accuracy
    * Customizable autofire delay to prevent "impossible" shots

ESP

    * Player names
    * Player Health
    * Radar
    * Chams
    * Wallhack

Misc

    * Quad Damage Timer
    * Self muting - disables sounds generated by your player so that you can focus on what really matters
    * Prediction boxes indicating you the spot you should aim at to score a hit on your best target
    * Highly customizable via custom cvars that can't be accessed by PB
    * Anti-Leak protection

PB

    * Undetected
    * Stealth hooking
    * Private cvar and binds protection
    * Clean screenshots



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3mDn0-qfuw


Quote
the green boxes are not the hitboxes
the green box is aim indcator : it's on model for insta weapons like lg , mg , rg , sg and so on ,
soon as he uses projectile like rl it moves the box ahaed of
where the player is going so the rocket connects

For retarted , it means that the green box is the enemy prediction box for the player while carring RL or GL .


Ciao baaaaabbbiiiiii !!!!


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: RAZ3R on November 25, 2009, 11:49:55 PM
So wait... some guy makes a frag video - a few minutes of their best frags from many hours of playing - someone else see's nice frags and says "ZOMG HAX?!?!"?

I can't even be bothered to put time in to explaining why RoOst3r isn't cheating. Unfounded cheating accusations like this are just sad.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: odigo on January 14, 2010, 08:47:49 PM
RAZ3R i love you.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: HITMAN on January 18, 2010, 03:20:38 PM
RAZ3R i love you.

Man love is nice..but i think giving him a Cake woulda suffice :-).........unless manlove is your thang. :-O


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: GoD|Ston3r on June 01, 2010, 04:10:12 PM
Quote
Yeah, getting rid of the scores/flags in the bottom right corner is the only thing I need to get rid of now :/

I created/used a pk3 file to fix that problem. It will remove the scoreboard in the lower right, holdable item icons, connection interrupted messages, and the scoreboard on death. It can be downloaded here:

http://files.filefront.com/13591253

After some fast frags vid without lot of vid edition, i made my first try (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gPMFB2WM8E) with more edit and design but i will be really interressed to get that pk3  ;D
Any hope to get it somewhere else? (link is broken for me)

Would be great, thx a lot & happy frags! (btw very very nice video even if i think i have already said it ^^)



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on June 01, 2010, 10:32:20 PM
I'm not sure if rooster is active on these forums anymore, so if not, I uploaded the .pk3

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RUYBJT5L

megaupload doesn't host it forever, so if you miss it just email me(I don't check these forums all that often)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on June 02, 2010, 03:07:29 AM
Thanks Gerbil, I'm now able to host it here: http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/pk3/cleanscreen/cleanScreen.pk3 :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: GoD|Ston3r on June 02, 2010, 03:48:35 AM
Heyy thx gerbil ;)

Sadly my univ connection block megaupload  :'(

But hopefully cacatoes i there  :P Thx a lot  ;D


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on June 10, 2010, 08:54:10 AM
Mmmm does it work for you  ???
I have copyed that in baseoa folder but it's still same :-\


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on June 10, 2010, 10:32:23 AM
Works for me.
The best way you can notice it's effective is :
=> It screws up the background when we start the game. (no texture available)
At least, it has this side effect on my computer.

Check your PK3s, maybe you have some other PK3s which are prioritary loaded and bring other QVMs.
Also, when you view a demo, check its mod, and ensure you have copied this cleanscreen pk3 into this mod directory.

Problems appear when we playback 0.8.5 demos, because it's based on an older QVM.



Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on June 10, 2010, 01:24:04 PM
Ok thanks a lot i got it  :D

Another ask allowed?  :-[ lol

>>> Is it a way to change the free-fly-view speed? (i mean the spectator views)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: HITMAN on June 10, 2010, 02:47:38 PM
I'm not sure if rooster is active on these forums anymore, so if not, I uploaded the .pk3


FYI...hes not really. He's up on QL, last time i checked.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on June 16, 2010, 03:32:19 PM
>>> Is it a way to change the free-fly-view speed? (i mean the spectator views)
With unmodified oa, I don't think so :(

with q3mme you can use viewpoints to change the speed
grism posted a simple guide of setting it up: http://oa-cl.ucoz.org/forum/66-329-1
and there's the guide i originally posted: http://rainbow.furver.se/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1779


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on September 28, 2010, 05:20:42 AM
After long work to avoid country blocked stuff, no sound,...
I succeeded to upload the RoOster video on YouTube (HD) : here! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkvE8iIk1pE&fmt=22)

Hope it will help to make this video (my favorite OA one ^^) to be most know :D

Enjoy it  ;)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on September 28, 2010, 05:47:24 AM
Is it me or the sound is saturated on that video ?
I may still have that video in good quality somewhere but not where I am, I could have had uploaded it somewhere if you wanted.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on September 28, 2010, 06:27:28 AM
Well if you have better quality ofc why not ;)
Mmm sound can't stay same else that won't work on most country thanks to the great Youtube policy ^^


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on September 28, 2010, 11:58:07 PM
Sry i edited this video to fullHD and removed crap song with nice quality ^ ^
Sry for those who posted comments already :P

here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8esAucaLEQ) available in fullHD ;)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Cacatoes on September 29, 2010, 05:18:40 AM
720p was already quite good, I'm not even sure 1080p is useful considering the original resolution of the video.
I think we have the same video so that's fine like this. Sound is better on that one (the amplification was a trick ?), hopefully Youtube won't complain, good job ;)
One can eventually run the audio into some effects (would be easy to do with LADSPA on some linux box) and rerecord it to make the signature not recognizable.


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on September 29, 2010, 10:00:28 AM
There is a barely audible echo in fact  :P lol
Youtube don't recongnize it, so that will never be blocked i think ;D

Quote
Your video, OpenArena - Just Killin' Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8esAucaLEQ) , may include content that is owned or administered by these entities:

    * Entity: Music Publishing Rights Collecting Society Content Type: Musical Composition
    * Entity: Warner Chappell Content Type: Musical Composition

What should I do?

No action is required on your part. Your video is still available worldwide. In some cases ads may appear next to your video.

Without any change you got video blocked in lot of countries (belgium, germany,...)

Yes the first one was another try of sound modify (on my heardphone with 7.1 that looked same :P but when some complain i listened normally and awful :D)
Thanks to notice it ^^
I'm also unsure 1080 is better, coz it's false one; at least it can't be worste  :)


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: Gerbil on September 29, 2010, 03:26:13 PM
awesome job stoner! :D

<3


Title: Re: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie
Post by: St0n3*r on September 30, 2010, 12:29:48 AM
Thank uuu gerbil!  ;D