OpenArena Message Boards

A launcher program

I like it

?
like oacon or something?

RN|Launcher

http://rainbow.furver.se/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1174&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

A launcher? An external server browser?
If you know others, DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Servers#Tools]you can add them here (http://([b)...

Care to elaborate fromhell?

fromhell brought launchers up twice before, but all in different threads:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3513.msg29798#msg29798 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3513.msg29798#msg29798)
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2409.0 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2409.0)

Oh, so were talking about this kind (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3513.msg29798#msg29798) of launcher program: a window that offers the ability to set various options (mainly, screen resolution) before starting the software.

Not sure it's so useful... but if you like it...

I like that myself, as long as you have the option of turning it off. Once you set things the way you like it, and make adjustments, you should have the option of going to the game directly.

I could probably tweak together something in Lazarus pretty easily.  Since the q3config.cfg/autoexec.cfg files is just plain text, it would be easy to treat it like an .ini file.  The real issue would be layout, given the large number of options, and types of options, available.  I can see things like tabbed browsing opening child dialogs as being pretty common.

I like how thedimi has options organized on his cheatsheets, but would want to enable the "disable_weapon_*", "disable_item_*" and "elimination_*" variables as well.

Mind you, what I'm thinking of here would be a separate program, like the DOOM launcher, that just writes settings to the config file and then launches the standard game (maybe with a command line option or two to load a mod).  I don't see changing OpenArena itself at all.

A little thing to think about: it seems to me that, since OpenArena is a work-in-progess, new options arrive at each release, some defaults may change, etc.... I mean that maybe it could be difficult to stay up-to-date with the new possible settings....

Now that I think of it some more, you've got to wonder if we really need something like this?

All of the options and settings are in game, do we really need to set things twice?

Seems like it will just be extra work and a waste of time. Especially if you can't turn it off.

Without using the console, how do you change the FOV setting?  There are a number of items like that where an interface would be nice.

They could be integrated directly into in-game menus...

The current menu is a pain to add new things to. The missionpack menu is better but will likely never be finished because it cannot reach a state there people care. I have experimented with combining them, so that the options was in a missionpack-menu so adding more was easy and the rest in classic UI for more pleasant display. The experiment was not very successful.

Some options will never be available ingame such as fs_homepath. However that is a very good option to have in a launcher because it allows to separate configuration files completly from each other. Also useful for guests without there own user account.

I have never been fond of launchers and never used them but there are always some that has different demands.

If this launcher was to offer additional settings besides what the in game options already offer, THAT would make it worth it.

Not everyone is familiar with the console, so having the options in the launcher would be wise.

Similar to Quake Live you know?

the launcher would mainly be for directly initializing the game, not doing all aspects of it.  Like say you run into a video error and you had no idea what happened? Or, you just want to start the game for the first time in windowed mode. Stuff like that.

IIRC on my first start of 0.85 i run into such kind of launcher...

I've got the basic layout of a launcher created.  I just need to start working through getting them all displayed.  My goal is to include every option I know of.

I'll have to try it when it's finished.  :)

Well, I've got it reading q3config.cfg, parsing each line, and loading the list of binds.

Out of curiosity, how many people are using Linux vs Windows on here?  I don't have access to a Mac for doing builds on that, right now.

I'm PC...

Maybe do a poll for that question?

I might do that.

1. a forum poll for the forum goers
2. a site poll for the visitors
3. the site statistics... i mean HOLY CRAP IM GATHERIN BROWSER DATA AND REFERRER DATA I DON'T EVEN LOOK AT  :-X

Ooh sounds fun.  ::)

I'd love to see what the site stats say.

I've run into a couple of interesting issues and would appreciate any thoughts/comments:

1) I've been working from the list Dimi put together here: http://oa.thedimi.net/configs/settings_db_final.xlsx  Somehow, I've got values for some settings that are outside the bounds that are listed there (minimum value = 1, I have values of 0, for example).  Any thoughts on which I should believe?

2) I've got a few items that are listed by Dimi, but not present in my config file: bot_challenge, bot_enable, bot_fastchat, bot_nochat, bot_predictobstacles, bot_rocketjump, bot_thinktime, bot_visualizejumppads, cg_bobup, scr_conspeed  I'm not to worried about them, but if there are possible issues it would be worth thinking about.

3) I've got a LOT of items that are not listed by Dimi, but are present in my config file: cg_voipteamonly, cl_anonymous, cl_consolecoloralpha, cl_consolecolorblue, cl_consolecolorgreen, cl_consolecolorred, cl_consoleheight, cl_consolekeys, cl_consoletype, cl_curllib, cl_mouseacceloffset, cl_mouseaccelstyle, cl_mumblescale, cl_usemumble, com_altivec, com_introplayed, disable_ammo_belt, disable_ammo_bfg, disable_ammo_bullets, disable_ammo_cells, disable_ammo_grenades, disable_ammo_lightning, disable_ammo_mines, disable_ammo_nails, disable_ammo_rockets, disable_ammo_shells, disable_ammo_slugs, disable_holdable_invulnerability, disable_holdable_kamikaze, disable_holdable_medkit, disable_holdable_portal, disable_holdable_teleporter, disable_item_ammoregen, disable_item_armor_body, disable_item_armor_combat, disable_item_armor_shard, disable_item_bluecube, disable_item_doubler, disable_item_enviro, disable_item_flight, disable_item_guard, disable_item_haste, disable_item_health, disable_item_health_large, disable_item_health_mega, disable_item_health_small, disable_item_invis, disable_item_quad, disable_item_redcube, disable_item_regen, disable_item_scout, disable_team_ctf_blueflag, disable_team_ctf_neutralflag, disable_team_ctf_redflag, disable_weapon_bfg, disable_weapon_chaingun, disable_weapon_gauntlet, disable_weapon_grapplinghook, disable_weapon_grenadelauncher, disable_weapon_lightning, disable_weapon_machinegun, disable_weapon_nailgun, disable_weapon_plasmagun, disable_weapon_prox_launcher, disable_weapon_railgun, disable_weapon_rocketlauncher, disable_weapon_shotgun, elimination_activewarmup, elimination_bfg, elimination_chain, elimination_ctf_oneway, elimination_grapple, elimination_grenade, elimination_lightning, elimination_machinegun, elimination_mine, elimination_nail, elimination_plasmagun, elimination_railgun, elimination_rocket, elimination_roundtime, elimination_shotgun, elimination_startarmor, elimination_starthealth, elimination_warmup, g_blueteam, g_elimination, g_redteam, g_regen, g_spawards, g_spscores1, g_spscores2, g_spscores3, g_spscores4, g_spscores5, g_spvideos, g_vampire, g_vampire_max_health, in_joystick, in_joystickthreshold, in_keyboarddebug, r_allowresize, r_centerwindow, r_ext_multisample, r_marksontrianglemeshes, r_noborder, s_alcapture, s_aldevice, s_mutewhenunfocused, sv_banfile, sv_dlurl, sv_floodprotect, sv_hostname, sv_lanforcerate, sv_master2, sv_master3, sv_master4, sv_master5, sv_maxping, sv_maxrate, sv_minping, sv_minrate, ui_setupchecked, vm_cgame, vm_game, vm_ui.  I know what the elimination_ variables and most disable_ variables do, and what their ranges/types are, but there are others that I have no idea about.  Do we have documentation, etc someplace I can refer to?

On the plus side, it does load/save on Linux, and I can implement Windows/Mac fairly quickly (compiler directives).  When completed, how would people like to see the app posted?

@WingedPanther
1.
0 usually means that the value will be ignored and the engine will use the optimal or default value. Others are not that precise. bot_nochat (0=all chat, 1=no random chat, 2= hide team chat) and cg_drawgun (diabled,visible,centered,lefthand) are no longer boolean values. Some are misguiding. Like net_enabled in range from 1 to 15: Technically 0 (disabled) is an allowed value and the filed is a bit field although most people should look at it as a bit field. The allowed range for rate is 3000 to 25000. 

2.
bot_fastchat, bot_nochat and bot_challange could perhaps be usefull to configure.

3.
I don't think they are documented in one place. Some of the ioquake3 cvars like sv_masterX are documented in the ioquake3 documentation, none of them are gameplay related.
Some of the variables introduced in OpenArena are in the wiki (especially the default server config). Some of them are not relevant for human editing. Like the g_sp*- variables that controls the single player campaign.
Few non-technical people will know the values to fill into cl_curlib, vm_game, cm_cgame, vm_ui or s_aldevice.

1.  I can handle that.  I'll probably just extend the range to include 0.
2.  agreed.
3.  I agree that some variables are NOT useful to manipulate by hand. 

Here's a couple screenshots of the app, for those who are curious.

what a mess. that's not the kind of launcher i had in mind. excessive overwhelming amounts of options isn't keeping things simple

Looks more like a configuration app, which I think a lot people would find useful.  It makes sense for such an app to have most of the configurable variables in there.

BTW which toolkit is it? Looks like GTK1, which I thought nobody used anymore.

Some button to set a variable (or all variables on the current window) to its default could be nice... but I suppose it is not easy, because default values sometimes change depending from OpenArena version.
PS: one should look for default values after entering a match, because from the main screen the previous values in your .cfg file may be erroneously told as "default" ones.

I'm coding it in Lazarus, which may be using GTK1.  It is a configuration app, but could probably be used as a launcher as well.

Currently, all variables start at their default until read from the cfg file.  I'm working on getting everything finalized.  I just finished determining where the q3config.cfg file is stored on Windows and Macs.

All right, I just like you a lot more. I'd give you a cake if I could. Lazarus is using GTK2 by default under Linux, at least since 0.9.28.x and 0.9.29.x.

While the application is nice, the amount of options is overwhelming and should probably be put into separate forms that are linked with an 'advanced' button for each category, while keeping the most important options in the already existing tabs.

I like the thousands of options o:)

Ubuntu 9.04 = Lazarus 0.9.26.  *sigh*.

I agree the options are a bit overwhelming.  I'm trying for completeness.  I plan to put things like the elimination_* variables under advanced.

I like all the options, but a person who has just started playing will have no idea what anything is.

Yeah, so maybe just make some expert mode with all settings and a standard mode with all important things?

I figured I'd set hints with more details.  I also wouldn't expect that most people would want to adjust most of these settings with this tool.  For me, it's useful for things like adjusting the field of view, which has no mechanism in the interface, or playing with g_elimination and the elimination_ vars.

That would definitly be a highlight of this. People may not realize just how useful this command is.
This reminds me of how Quake Live has many more settings you can adjust, and FOV was one of them.

You can find many comments about the purpose of many variables in my config (updated recently to the last version of OA) :

http://superbots.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&op=getit&lid=20

About WingedPanther's launcher, I find it very good, but indeed there are too many options at first, but this can easily be circumvented :

- Simplify the menus and add a "Show advanced options" button.
- Separate the config generator and the launcher (a good example, although made specificly for E+, is the Q3 E+ Config Editor :
http://www.excessiveplus.net/forums/thread/quake-iii-e-config-editor)

Thanks for the links, GrosBedo.  I'm thinking about hiding certain items as a more advanced feature.  Getting it working is easier if I just do it all, now, and add the ability to hide items later.  You're the second person to suggest an "advanced options" filter, though.

Make that 3 Winged.  ;D

Some other ressources for vars, althrough I didn't verify their veracity :

http://ioclan.site11.com/oamanual/
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual

Another Launcher, that I and dash9 made, but for a totally different purpose, but it may be of some use for the commandline parameters and the engine behaviours :

http://superbots.co.cc/modules.php?name=Downloads&op=getit&lid=19

Feel free to use it for your project if it may be of any help, it's completely opensource.

Amongst the most useful features :

- Keep the q3config file intact and up-to-date amongst all mods.
- Random generation of a net_qport and disable cl_guidServerUniq (so multiple players on the same LAN can play on the same Internet server).
- Log rotation.
- Disable mouse acceleration on Linux (should add this feature on Windows too).

net_qport should be random in current versions. I am interested in the reason for disabling cl_guidServerUniq, as far as I know it should only affect the GUID.

Sounds good.  I'll plan on adding a filter to it.  I was also thinking about adding an option to detect the installed mods and allow the user to switch mods being edited.

Good news, but it should be possible to set it manually too.

As for cl_guidServerUniq, if activated, it's impossible to join twice the same server with 2 clients on the same computer. That may be a less common need, but it's very useful for testing.

This launcher idea has been intruiguing me lastly, because I feel one particular need which is: being able to distinguish server configurations when joining a server. Right now, there are several criterias which are hidden or which are sometimes guessed, like: OA version (081 or 085 or else), allrockets/instagib (~= gametype), sv_pure, g_catchup... that would allow server administrators to give a real name to their server, and not to try to describe their content in their name or MOTD.
As we know, the current game browser doesn't make things easy.
One goal would be to make that launcher friendly to new players. Most relevant settings/cvars could be replaced by meaningful icons on columns, which would also allow sorting and filtering.

IMO XQF is handy, but could be stripped from non-OA features and bring OA specific ones.

I feel like WingedPanther is more a configuration tool (q3config file writer) for lazy but advanced players and eventually server administrators, than a server browser or a launcher. It would have some use, but as a q3config.cfg file creator.

RN|Launcher is nearer of what I would have expected, I haven't tried it yet, from the screenshot I'd only say server cvars could be hidden in an "advanced panel".

From what fromhell seems to expect, it also seems to me that "server browser" may not be the main screen of this launcher, and that launcher's only purpose shouldn't be to start a multiplayer game, maybe it could help with some Skirmish feature but I don't have specific ideas about how these submenus could be arranged.

Here are a few sketches :P (true art !)

PNGs:
Main window:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept1.png (some Exit button may lack)

Multiplayer window:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept2.png (I forgot stuff like OA version, if servers are melt I suppose IT IS a relevant info) ... and there would be some hard thoughts about what is relevant or not to put in columns.

SVGs:
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept1.svg
http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/files/images/launcherconcept/launcher-concept2.svg

Of course that's just how I see it (I thought this kind of window layout was rather obvious, in the whole not in details) but one can have a different conception.

Edit: there should also be a way to directly start the launcher in "multiplayer window" (= join internet game), probably with a shortcut parameter.

Edit2: I add, some softwares (file navigators) can customize which column should appear in the view. Such option could be handy here, there could be many options from which a player want to sort servers, while keeping it simple for new players.
Other point, I was like "hey, put nice graphical icons instead of text labels" but, depending on the options, I'm not sure that would give the best results.

That would be quite awesome. Maybe also highlight servers when friends are playing there (I already see a playerviewer so this would be easily possible to check)?

Yes it's possible to get players lists from servers and display servers according to that. XQF does that pretty well, it has filters (like OAFF has) and you can either enter a part of the name of your friend, some clan tag, or any substring. Just made me think GUID was some way to identify a player too but GUID changes from a server to another so that may not be relevant to use it.

BTW, is there a good place to have the code I have so far for the config editor?  I've been busier than I planned to be of late, though I still intend to get back to it and finish it.

I can give you access to the SVN we use for the french OA community, though you have to register to Tuxfamily first, then I'll add you to the list of SVN commiters.

http://tuxfamily.org/en/subscribe

Here is a view of files currently hosted on it: http://svn.tuxfamily.org/viewvc.cgi/openarena_svn/ (templates for our wiki and forum, and some scripts for administrating OA servers)

Informations about how to access the SVN: http://faq.tuxfamily.org/SVN/En

This offer is also valid for other OA contributors, but it may be more reasonable to host OA projects inside OA's SVN itself, though the only procedure to commit on it is to go through this thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.0).
Official SVN is meant to be reorganized but this thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3821.0) may not have received enough attention.

For those interested in the current state of the config utility... here's the code to date.

For curiosity, I tried to build it with Lazarus, seems I get this problem (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=9214.0).
Changed my GTK theme to clearlooks, but it didn't help. I admit I'm a bit lazy to try harder.

Ouch!  I'm still on 9.04, so haven't run into that before.  I wasn't clear on whether changing the theme would make the issue go away or not.  Still, that sucks.  Maybe I'll try recoding it in QT one of these days (just got a book on it).

By the way, wouldn't QT help in making it cross-platform ?

Lazarus is already cross-platform :)  The only issue I had was the various locations the OS's use to store OA's files.

Okay, in my mind GTK was hardly crossplatform, I know it runs on Windows with additionnal libs, but I wasn't sure for Mac OS X.
Good point for Lazarus ;)

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/FAQ#Configuration_files_and_automatic_downloaded_files_path

As near as I can tell, Lazarus is just using GTK on Linux, but uses native forms for Windows and Cocoa for Mac.  I could be wrong, of course.

I don't know.
On the wiki, I found a page about a program called "MacRadiant":
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_with_MacRadiant

Probably someone should update it, it has been written at the time of OpenArena 0.6.0 (it includes the links to download v060 of the engine and of the "linux tarball")...

My interest for this discussion was more specifically towards some "server browser", since this would be a crucial tool, and it may be worth bumping it.

It's not directly related but an idea I just had would have been to improve the server MOTD system if such tool comes to birth:

-> Giving the ability to fetch news concerning a server. That way, server administrators could tell stuff about their servers, which could then be read by players.

Some players don't care about coming on oa.ws to check that kind of infos, players are not always the ones you'll see on the forum. Goal is to improve communication: tell about server incidents, changes, organize tournaments...

I don't know more precisely what kind of implementation it could have.

Do you mean something similar to what I asked here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4245.0) or something different?

Something slightly different, but somehow related.

Infos from servers, and ways for players to display them.
Current motd has a single entry, I was suggesting something more RSS-like (with entries based on dates or "item numbers"), while it's not very necessary.