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I've started to notice an outbreak of AimBots, I've been in the server within 2 days... I'm not sure if there's a link going round to an AimBot for OA or it's simply just a coincidence that I played in matches with all 3 of them, the aim of this topic is to make you aware of the names of these Aimbots in order to recognise them immediately so they can be kicked and thus making all our game play much more enjoyable...

The two that I can remember is:
...DeathToScass.... (Something like that... he racked up 40 kills in a minute) Scassapille must be feeling pretty proud of himself right now to have an Aimbot dedicated to him o.O

GOOGLE - Once again racking up ALOT of kills in a short amount of time, forcing me to leave the damn server :/

List any others you're aware of.

LOL
googlebot...
if you have rcon, you have just to show him and he will turn off his bot.
Never heard about the other player, but nicks are not realy heavyly fakeble :)

On the other hand: there are programs around working for windows (dunno, if they work on other os now).
Aimbots, autoshooting, wall hacks and so on.

I fno admin is present i just leave the server and switch to a safer one.
Best server to be protected is smashs 3W-Insta - if you like playing insta of course :)

You talking about 40 kills in 1 minute reminds me of when I play a game against a dude named Kendul (I think  that was his name)got 50 kills in 2 minutes. Also another time one dudes aim just seemed a little too good  forgot his name but it had two blue Bs in it. Anyway when I specced them both it’s was like I was speccing a totally different person from the one I just when up against they started to miss shots and for some reason there movements got really sloppy and they just began to walk around. In any case I never saw them again I am think that maybe there where nervous, sandbagging or might have been using some cheats. Best thing to do is demo them and send it to the server admin.

Well I know there was 1 released about  6 months ago and is really easy to spot; As the bot doesn't have a toggle for both the aim & autoshoot. So it's constantly scanning and shooting at the target(s) making it really obvious and the cheater is all over the place.

For the most part good players have great movement, timing, aim etc.
So IMO if a guy has great aim and is moving around like a noob etc it's quite apparent he's got a bot.

Also; If the guy sucks at rockets but is a god at hitscan weaps that's another indicator.

aimbotters i know of (off the top of my head):

n0skill
aka lord_harry
aka allcohcolic(?)
aka All

the top sign of his bot is its prediction code, it will kill itself when you are moving certain ways because it will try to predict rocket badly through floors lol

arch-rouge (is this also lord_harry?)

this ones bot and many others tend to lock on to the place they were last aiming at someone when they spawn and were aiming before death, i have no idea why but it happens and means they will be aiming through walls to the last place they aimed at while moving around unable to change view angle.

u missed the greatest of all lol, google^bot

but does it matter who does it? We can't do a lot here i guess.

yeah not much can be done i guess

Not only that.... did you spectate them and make sure they were using it? I mean...I get 40 kills per minute and do not use aimbot :\ they could just be good players. However, there IS an aimbot problem...but you can't just assume someone is using an aimbot because of a high score :B

I can think of a way to prove if someone is using aimbot. If you,ve speced a nightmare bot, and seen how they lock on to a target, im, sure u,ll see that aimbot works in a similar way.(assuming you'll get the chance to spec an aimbotter)But, just remember, some peoples natural aims are exstremely good.

Unfortunaly the bot coders make progress too.
I had saw a bot some days ago, which was realy hard to detect. It was an autofire bot with a rate of approx. 70% i would say.
But sometimes (maybe every 5th respawn?) the behaviour of the first aimbot known by me came up: after respawn he looked straight to the top of the map.

I guess, they will fix this sooner or later...

i made a thread yesterday about someone aimbotting me. his name was just unnamedplayer.(probly so ppl can't reconized him by name) the guy was clearly there just to try and make ppl mad so they would quit(he was constantly yelling insults and just talking trash in general). but i ended up going back to the server about 30 mins later and he was still there. He was godlike with some weapons(lightning,rail,machingun) but sucked with rockets. and the dude couldnt even strafe for sh*t! i ended up using rockets on him and he started using only rockets to try and kill me. I just stayed away from walls and i dont think he hit me once after that ;D he actually ended up calling ME the cheat and left. i cant tell you how happy that made me :D

Ah the old unnamedplayer arena god story where they talk big but in the end get owned. There is one I am currently wondering about not sure if he is good and legit or a cheater. waht gets me about him is if your legit then why hide behind the unnameplayer name? Also is there going to be something in the next release that forces you to actually pick a name.

There's a particular UnnamedPlayer in Europe who has mad skills and plays OA for a long time. But he is completely silent, so I don't think it's the same Unnamed.

That's why I put a youtube vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bqLaiB2hHw) on showing one, so everyone can watch how it behaves without having the trouble of playing with one (and recognise it next time). Actually should have shown with more weapons though, now only had instagib.

I think generally there are two reasons for playing anonymously. Firstly you've got some people trying to make a name for themselves in the scene which are scared of losing, so they tend to play unnamed and only switch to their real name after they've won a round. Secondly there are some (semi-)professional FPS-players who like playing just for fun now and then and they tend to hide their true identity also.

Was always a pleasure to spec him - like it was speccing Stygius! :D
He is away since hmmmm 1.5 years?
Never saw him again... :( (like Stygius...)

the guy i was talking about was definantly cheating. he sucked at everything! Im telling you this guy could not strafe at all. but he could kill me with a lightning gun faster then i could kill him AND he had just gotten hit with a rocket. And i speced him later and he was definatly aimboting

can happen...

I'm not arguing he wasn't cheating, I just wanted to indicate to Bane that people have other, more legitimate reasons for playing anonymously than just cheating. Some anonymous players are very, very good  ;)

What was this guys pig if i may ask, cos i get that problem, my normal ping is around 300 to 500, so weapons with slower ammo are hard to us in my case.(SHOT only comes 1.9 second later.)

thats the thing is i dont remember what his ping was. At first i was trying to see if maybe there was a legitimate reason(lag) that was the problem. but shortly after posting i went back on to the same server and found him again. I KNOW it was him because he said something like "back to get r&ped again noob" That is when i speced him and saw he was aimboting. my ping was around a 100 i think. I am normally around 100 and i wasnt lagging badly that day. but the reason i originally thought the problem was lag is because he was lagging reaalllly badly for a few seconds then normal for about a minute, then really badly then normal. so i posted to see if lag would cause him to count as hitting me the whole time or something weird.

Wow killie how the h*ll do you even hit anything with that ping .

I'm almost positive I know exactly who you are talking about, I thought he was just an aimbot at first, but after specing him for a bit, (and killing him a few times that an aimbot could have easily prevented) I came to the conclusion that he was just really good.

Just wondering does this unnamplayer play on the normal z server.

There are several really high level players who play as UnnamedPlayer on European servers like [Z], and after a while, you can recognise them by their style.

They generally play as UnnamedPlayer because that way they can have a quick fun game without half the server yelling "OMG, it's XYZ! Please sign my CHEST!!!!"

hm there were two on supeR,CTF yesterday: an unnamedplayer (85.29.69.87) and Shinobi (no IP but can get if needed). Both should be banned there now.

agree

Delag hitscan bru.

if it'd work for movement and all weaps

The movement messes me up more than the weapon lag. I get stuck on every single corner when I'm lagging.

So right, delag sucks for plasma, rockets, anything with slow projectiles

Why? Projectile weapons lag exactly the same whether you play delagged or not, playing delagged you just experience the projectile lag more because hitscan weapons have no lag at all. If you have problems dodging incoming rockets because of the lag you should set cg_projectilenudge to your ping time.

What are exactly cg_projectilenudge and cl_timenudge? How do they work?

I read here (http://www.techspot.com/tweaks/quake3/print.shtml) that the second can add an artificial lag to you, and that can set with negative values, and they suggest to set it to a negative value, the half of your average ping...

cl_timenudge induces artificial lag with positive values and tries to extrapolate/predict the game state with negative values, but it is not a good option when playing delagged because it messes with the timing of hitscan weapons also.

cg_projectilenudge induces artificial lag to (your view of) enemy projectiles, it takes positive values only and is meant for delagged play (it doesn't mess with the position of other players like cl_timenudge does).

The reason for introducing artificial lag is that it 'synchronizes' your view of the game to the actual state of the server if you pick the right amount of lag. If you have 60 ms ping and you don't introduce artificial lag to your view of the game, you'll see other players and projectiles with a 30 ms delay, so rockets (which travel at 900 ups) coming at you are actually 900 * 30 / 1000 = 27 units closer to you than you see them. By setting cl_timenudge 30 (half your ping) or cg_projectilenudge 60 (your ping), enemy rockets actually are where you see them. (If you use cg_projectilenudge 60 this means rockets will seem to spawn 27 units in front of other players' rocket launchers also, but you get used to this quickly.)

You can use negative cl_timenudge values to get a 'lagfree' feeling while moving, but at the expense of never knowing where other players really are, because you're ordering your client to try and predict the future and show it to you. So if you have ping 60 and set cl_timenudge -30 you'll experience movement without lag, but you'll see other players 'skipping' from one position to the next sometimes because the client prediction was wrong.

Thank you for the good explaination...
Just to complete the thing... what happens to your view of enemy rockets if you set a negative cl_timenudge value?

PS: just to know... guys do you really use these options?

Negative cl_timenudge works the same for rockets as it does for players, so you'll see the rockets where the client thinks they will be. This isn't a big problem for rockets (and other projectiles) though, because they travel in a predictable trajectory at a predictable speed.

The problem with negative cl_timenudge is actually hitting someone at a distance with hitscan weapons like the railgun, more so if he's traveling at high speed (strafing). Your client is trying to predict where the players will be in the number of milliseconds you specify (negatively) with cl_timenudge, and you're shooting at this prediction. Combine this with delagged hitscan weapons and hitting someone almost becomes a question of pure luck, especially at large negative cl_timenudge values.

you're the first to explain it that logicly and clearly, so far everyone i asked was like 'if u set timenudge to -50 it'll cut off 50 of your ping', which everyone should do ofcourse it seemed. I was already wondering why this kinda build-in cheat existed but this explains :P Thanks :)

cl_timenudge is unlimited in both negative or positive values in the quake3 engine.

Unlagged has introduced a limit ( its value was clamped between -50 and 50 ) but ioquake3 did better since the limit is hardcoded now between -30 and 30

Actually there was another problem with negative values of cl_timenudge and not unlagged engine : if a client has set cg_smoothclients to 1 and has a negative timenudge , it could happen to see enemies into walls . I remember this kind of effect in OA071.

Unlagged has moved smothclient code into the server code only so I guess there should not be any problem related to this anymore.

I did not know it was unlimited in 1.32c.  Thanks for the info.

In E+ we rarely had a major issue with this as all Clan/Fun War servers must use PB which has a limit (I think of +/- 30) and many Admins further capped this at +/- 10.

Off Topic: Another way players tried to gain an advantage was by enabling "drawNames" which allowed players to easily locate and identify players on fog based maps like Q3Tourney5 or Q3wcp3.  E+ 2.1 beta now prevents players from seeing anyone other than team mates.

Sorry to annoying you again. Can I have an example? I still don't understand exactly how it works for positive and negative values. If I add an artificial lag, shouldn't I have a worser experience?
Let's try with an example.
A player fires (from point "A") a rocket to me (at point "B"). The moment he shoots is T0 and the moment the rocket reaches me is T200 and cause of ping I normally see its rocket from T60 (at A point) and me being hit from T260 (at B point)....
As you said, if I set cl_timenudge 30, at T60 I start seeing the rocket, but at A+X (X being the space the rocket travels in 60 ms.. In our example, you told 27 units ahead A point, right?) instead of A point. So I see it reach point B at T200 instead of T260... right? But the game will show me being injuried starting from T260 anyway, right?

So it seems to substract articifial lag, not to add it... :-/
What if I set this negative? At T60 where will I see the rocket? When will I see it reach B point?





"Drawnames"? What option is it exactly? I quickly searched in menu, and in commands beginning with cg_draw or r_draw, but I didn't find it (in baseoa, didn't test on E+).
Does it enable and disable the name of the player you are aiming at? If everyone have it active (as default), everyone will see the names in the fog and everyone will be in the same situation (and the names appear only after a while you are already targeting someone, right?). Completely remove the names of your enemies is not the maximum, IMHO.... I like to know who I am shooting at...

If you add artificial lag you'll experience more movement lag for your part, but your display lag is gone. With ping 60 it takes 30 ms to reach the server and 30 ms back to your client again, so without artificial lag you'll experience a 30 ms delay in your movement and every moving object you see on your monitor has a 30 ms delay also. This means that if a projectile hits you without artificial lag, you'll experience the damage 30 ms before you actually see the projectile hitting you on your monitor (and for higher pings it gets worse of course).

By adding 30 ms artificial lag you'll experience a 60 ms delay in your movement, but no delay for moving objects on your monitor. You'll experience the projectile damage when you actually see it hitting you. This makes avoiding enemy projectiles easier, because movement lag is easier to handle than dodging lagging rockets.

With negative timenudge you try to solve the lag problem in a totally different way by telling the client to predict the future of the game 30 ms ahead. This means you won't experience any movement delay nor any display delay. This seems wonderful, but because players aren't moving in predictable patterns the client is often wrong in predicting player locations, so you'll see players in different positions from where they really are (and shoot nice big holes in the air instead of in the players). The client will predict the position of projectiles perfectly because projectiles do move in a predictable way (so you'll be able to dodge rockets with the right amount of negative timenudge).

But I suppose that the server will record my damage 30ms before i see te projectile hitting me... then it will inform my client, that will get that information 30ms later, more or less exactly when I will see the projectile hit me, isn't so?
Of course, in that 30ms, I cannot do anything to avoid the damage...

The core of the thing, I suppose, is that switching from positive to negative values has more or less the same behavior for non-hitscan projectiles, while changes a lot the way it handles movement of the players... right?

Exactly, only this isn't a big issue with low pings, but if you'd have ping 200 the 1/10 of a second "dead time" would be really noticeable and quite annoying. Timenudge is what pushlatency was in earlier versions of quake: a technology to take away some of the advantage of LPBs over HPBs.


Not quite, aiming projectiles is about the same for positive and negative timenudge values, but with positive values there is an (added) delay between the moment you press fire and the moment your weapon really fires, while there is no such delay at all with negative timenudge values (even the real lag is removed).

Aiming projectiles with projectilenudge is always exactly the same as aiming with timenudge 0 because projectilenudge only influences enemy projectiles and not the player positions (so you can still aim straight at them with delagged hitscan weapons).

edit:
I see I got your question wrong. Yes, other players' projectiles seem to behave the same way for negative and positive timenudge values (and even for projectilenudge values / 2), the differences between the different technologies are much more noticeable in where you see the other players (and in the movement lag you experience of course).

Okay. I really want to thank you for your helpfulness. I wonder if you can summarize everything we talked here to have a good "help page" about these variables, since it seems they are not well covered on online documentation.

I'm not sure what will be the best page to talk about them... maybe DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak]this one (Tweak) (http://([b)? Now there is simply a short line about that:
/cl_timenudge 0 <- Leave at 0 for less lag and less trouble (default 0).
It would be nice to create a section in that page dedicated to lag-related variables, like delag (it seems to me that there are more variables other than \g_delag, isn't so?)... and, more important, timenudge and projectilenudge.... a technical explaination of how they work, an example of what you experience (good things and bad things... with hitscan weapons, non-hitscan weapons, movement, moving platforms...), how they interfere each other, which values you should use.... the various things you explained here, put toghether...
Do you think you can do it?

Well, this is about as far as my knowledge goes  :)

I for instance do not know what the technology behind cg_projectilenudge actually is, so I can't write technical explanations about how it works. I suspect it's prediction for projectiles (a bit like negative timenudge) because I can't feel it adding any movement lag and I occasionally see errors like stuck rockets, but I just don't know for sure.

I could make a start though, I'll see what I can do in the coming weekend.

There is no need to be excessively verbose in technical explaination (focus on practical explaination would be better)... just something more that "it cuts down your ping" as we can read around the web...
I meant, for example, your sentence about it synchronizing your view with your lag on the server...

Anyway, if someone wants add more technical explainations (for example... Sago, are you out there? :)), he's welcome...

Hmm, my advice in few centences:

1) Learn to play online with cl_timenudge set to 0 and don't listen to all the pro advice. There will be ever more delagged servers around, and if you learn to play with cl_timenudge you'll have to relearn moving without bumping into walls and aiming projectile (non-hitscan) weapons when you do set cl_timenudge to 0 to get the delagged hitscan detection to work 100% for you.

2) Set cg_delag to 1 so all your hitscan weapons will be delagged on delagged servers and you don't have to lead them anymore but you can aim straight at your target instead.

3) Set cg_projectilenudge to your average ping time on the server you're playing on. This will 'delag' your view of enemy projectiles like rockets and shows you your real window of opportunity to avoid them.

4) When, after years of practice, you're an absolute ace with delagged hitscan weapons and you can sense that the server's delagged algorithm is misjudging your ping time by a few milliseconds (which is very unlikely), adjust those few milliseconds with cg_cmdtimenudge (not cl_timenudge).

Okay, this part seems very nice as a closure: after the explainations previously given, we suggest what to do... :)

Hi, just posting to tell you I'm still on it, I had a hard disk crash last Saturday (it overheated due to the heatwave >:() and I found the time to revive my system just last night. I've installed a 64-bit linux now (Fedora 13) and I'm playing around with the x86_64 OA client a bit. It looks like I'm able to get stable 333 fps on my old GeForce 7600 with it (except on oasago2 where the frame rate drops to 300 fps) 8)

Well, for me it's hard to get 50 fps... ^_^
Anyway, take your time... when you are ready, I'm here (but I will be on holiday from the end of the next week)...

I ran into a player yesterday Velociraptor Swiftness "or whatever" who was using an obviously poorly engineered bot.

It was easy to detect as it literally made him spin in circles on a crowded server on DM 17. That and the fact that he obviously had un-lagged turned off  and a 3-400 ping = " Epic Bot Fail".  :D

I'm going to try and get the demo from those who were recording him it was hilarious.

If you can't play a bot's not going to help you.
What will help is practice and befriending experience players to spar with "bottom line".

Funny you should bring that up masamune I played a guy just the other day called Velocirpator Raptor ( in green lettering) that I am pretty sure was using an aimbot. Also played a guy twice in one day called Looooong Cat the first time he got like 13 frags in ten minutes then he starting fussing left came back and now all of a suddend his aim got a whole lot better and he got 50 frags in 6 minutes. I'm not saying thats impossiable but it just makes you wonder.

It happens to me, (rarely) Some days i,m very good, others... i suck ass, like today.Maybe he's got my issue...

or he had some wrong setting? 50f in 6m isn't rare. I commonly get about 15f/m, lowest i usually reach when sucking is around 11 frags a minute.

but the sudden change in skill...is kinda suspicous. unless the dude just sobered up quick or something

Umm, I just added a complete section about tweaking net parameters to the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak]Tweak wiki page (http://([b), but when I pressed save my additions vanished into thin air?! Does that website need cookies to function? I'll write the text offline and try posting it again tomorrow.

Uhm... Mediawiki uses cookies, I think (but not sure if they are really needed to edit a page... maybe if you take too much time?). Anyway, if you use Firefox, it should be able to return to the previous page without losing your text...

hmm not always, never tried on wikia but they use some fancy editor which might get the text somewhere else on-load. Another reason for just using plain text editors instead of gui based crap for newbs =)

... and obviously, the first thing I do when I edit a page on a Wikia site is pushing the "source code" button (WYSIWYG interface makes big mistakes).

There is a really good player who goes under the nick longcat, among others. If you met this player, then it was likely not a bot, that player definitely doesn't need one.

I wanted to have another go at the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Tweak]Tweaking online gaming parameters (http://([b) section, but to my astonishment the text that disappeared the day before yesterday is now on there? Anyway, I modified the text and the layout a little, can somebody check it please (my English in particular)?

Maybe you updated it, but after that for some strange reason, you were still seeing a cached version (by your browser or by the server)...

DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Tweak&diff=6394&oldid=6305]Your work (http://([b) seems nice. I did some little fix, DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Tweak&diff=6397&oldid=6394]can you check if they are ok? (http://([b)

About your text: "...on your game controllers" or "...on your game controls"?
And it is not clear if it is possible/advisable (I suppose not) to use both timenudge and projectilenudge?

I did some minor corrections and additions. Is the part about cl_maxpackets clear or does it need more explanation? (Have a look at this post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3433.msg31029#msg31029), sorry about the funny words in the post, they magically changed on April fools day). Also I believe there is a cap of 30 on cl_maxpackets in the newer releases, but I don't know for sure. (Falkland?)

It's better to keep cl_timenudge at 0 when playing delagged but some players are so used to negative timenudge they still set it to -10, think of it as trade-off between more accurate hitscan weapons and less movement lag.

- Somewhere I read there could be a limit of maximum -30 and +30 for cl_timenudge, but I'm not sure.
- It is still not clear if one could use both timenudge and projectilenudge (I suppose not, but I don't know).
- are you sure where you wrote "int(com_maxpackets / 2)"?
- Maybe you can write there also about the default com_maxfps recommended values...

UPDATE: In the meanwhile, I added something DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Manual%2FGraphic_options&diff=6403&oldid=6147]in this page (http://([b), did I right?

P.S.: I'm going to go on holiday, so I will not be on the forums for about 8-10 days. See you later!

I just owned an aimbotter!!!!! i just switched to his team and pushed him into pits over and over. and he got really mad at me for that and because i was telling him how much better i was then him.(plus the fact that he know he was cheating ment he couldnt smack talk me back) and then i just spammed him with stuff about him probly having a small dick so thats why he cheats til he quit. i was so proud :D but it got me thinking why not make a mod that kicks ppl if they kill X number off ppl in X amount of time? or atleast some system of being able to report ppl and their ip's to the server host? cuz it was just me and him so i couldnt kick him. so i was only able to win by persistance but it was in all honestly not a good use of my time :(

and the guys named was "twice" and is there anyway i could have gotten his ip so i could have posted it and ppl could ban him?

Because there are also players who are just really good and make the same ammount or sometimes more scores then aimbots.

Ask him to goto whatismyip.com and post which it is :P

true but i dont think any noncheating player can score some 200 kills in under 2 mins. this was on instagib and he was killing as ppl spawned, the map was oa_ctf2. and i was wondering if there was a way to ping someone for their ip. also in this thread http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3760.0 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3760.0) you said you got his ip, how'd you do that?

200 kills in under 2 minutes with the rail gun only? Really?

In unmodded games the RG takes 1.5 seconds to reload after a shot, so 200 single kills would take 200 * 1.5 secs = 300 secs = 5 minutes. Calculating the other way around (accounting for double kills), you can produce a maximum of 60 secs / 1.5 secs = 40 frags per minute with single RG kills, and because the guy is scoring 200 kills / 2 minutes = 100 frags per minute, he must kill an average of 2.5 players per RG shot! That's incredibly good, even for a bot. Are you sure you got those 2 minutes right?

Is there a new aimbot out or something causing what seems to be a rise in cheating.

Also congrats Thoushaltdie on owning an aimboter hopefully he will not come back and take his cheating ways to another game

Oh yeah, ran into him the other day. Four of us ganged up on him in FFA, and he still won.

It wasn't even a sophisticated aimbot or anything. The most obvious thing ever.

I have checked everything on the connection when playing online in openarena, but there is only the ip of you and the server in the packets. I got scassapalle's IP by asking an admin when scassapalle was on some server. With "/rcon status" you can see it (if you set the rconpassword right).

I'm sorry if my last post sounded like a lecture, I just don't like people exaggerating how much frags the aimbot they encountered got, that's about the best advertisement for a bot you can make, especially from the viewpoint of a noob. Lots of noobs get the impression they are being cheated when they get owned by good players anyway (specifically prediction shots and twitch shots are highly suspect to them), and all the stories about bots owning everyone makes downloading a bot and 'leveling the playing field' all the more attractive to them because they think everybody is using them anyway.

In a sense it's more than a bit like doping in some sports (cycling and weight lifting come to mind): the myths about the widespread use of super potent doping/aimbots become a self fulfilling prophecy in the long run.

ok im not all that sure about the time. because he was changing teams so the time was resetting but i thought it was around 2 mins, but you are probly right and it was more. he was literally killing as ppl spawned though. and for some reason his frag score was staying with him even though he was changing teams but i have noticed that happening with 8.5. He had over 200 when the timelimit hit i know that much for sure. and the time was under 5 mins because it gave the 5 min warning as soon as i joined. and he only had around 20 frags then. and you guys are forgetting that he was capturing for both teams and the end score was 6/7 or something like that.

Just looked up some screenshots, and I sometimes get close to the 40score/min (insta CTF). Now there's flag scores too, but I'm not that good so there sure will be people going over the 'aimbot score'. So again @Thoushaltdie I think "kicking ppl if they kill X number off ppl in X amount of time" isn't a good idea :)

100% accuracy is normality for sure , right ?

Stop pulling our legs because a human player will never reach and mantain such this accuracy on any game stats.

X kills in Y amount a time where X and Y are high limits ( like in the case 40 frags = max teoric score obtainable in 1 minute with railgun ) and in a normal match ( with a certain number of players that don't stay fixed at spawnpoint ) just means the player IS a cheater with a very high probability.

Wait a minute before we get off on the wrong foot here.

I'm not a CTF player, but don't you get 2 frags for a defense kill in CTF? So the theoretical limit would be 80 frags per minute without captures in an instagib CTF match, wouldn't it?

Not thinking earlier of the defense award is my mistake, sorry guys (Thoushaltdie in particular).

Falkland, disagree. I was working on a post today about the max score you could get in a minute but didn't post in the end because it was all too much guessing and not based on real statistics. But I did get higher then 40score a minute for a player just a little better than me. Also have a screenshot of 39score where the time says 1minute, though that could be 1:59 as well so it's not really relyable. Long kill streaks (and I mean hitting x times without missing, not hitting x times without dying) are also doable, never counted but estimate I sometimes get kill streaks of little under 20 (which is already half-way to the minute with 100% acc).
And you seem to forget that aimbots never have 100% accuracy, if someone has that acc you can be rather sure he's not a cheater (with the current aimbots at least). Now the highest I've ever gotten was 62%, it was a crappy one but still I don't expect any to go over 75% or 30frags/minute.
Lastly, there isn't always a player in sight, and if you can see everyone at all times everyone can see you too at all times and you'll get shot now and then.

I was wondering if you guys are also figuring in railing more than just two targets and the fact there might have been some bots there which we all know are not to bright and are easy targets. Also another thing to consider is how experienced the other players are do they know how to dodge can they strafe if they are just walking along and some pro comes in it will turn into a blood bath. I just thought I’d bring these things up because they do at times happen. Finally maybe if you happen to see this guy again you could possibility demo him and post it here for review.

well are we trying to figure out the max score a human can get reasonably get or the highest an aimbot can get on an open space map where it can kill everyone AS they spawn? and if the secound with or without factoring for captures and defense kills?

No we're not, as I already said there is no way to check if someone's aimbotting or not by checking any score, accuracy or kills stats.
There is another topic (or maybe earlier this topic, not sure) where other techniques are listed and discussed though.

Real Aimbot thread :
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3206.50

This project is not dead, it's being discussed elsewhere.

On this matter :


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomaly_detection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier#Identifying_outliers

The solution I propose is of the 3rd type.

Not to bring up an old topic, but that happens to me...all the time. That's why I've been accused of aimbotting before. On my really good days, that is. :P

I average a ping between 130 and 200, usually only play instantgib, and average a score of 200-350 a game. It often happens that my railshots will seem to bend around walls a tiny bit, or else "cut the corner" to hit the player. There have even been instances that confuse the heck out of me where I shoot and kill a player, but the mark of the railgun impact is on a wall in front of me (say, I'm on a ramp and the dead player is above me). True.

That kind of thing REALLY makes people suspicious. People who spec me sometimes say that it looks like I'm shooting in a direction different (or totally opposite) the direction in which I am moving. Usually they say I appear to be shooting off to the side and hitting anyway, therefore must be cheating.

I've been around long enough that the accusations have stopped, as I have too high of a ping to actually use an aimbot, but still. Strange stuff.

-

As for modeling normality as a means of anomaly detection:

If one can design an algorithm that is somehow an amalgam of many legitimate players' accuracy statistics, grouped by ping (0-50, 51-75, 76-100, so on) then that might just be a good thing to hardcode into the engine.

I mean, how did PunkBuster work?

Since client movements are sent to you, aimbots can simply hook the engine and figure it out. But as we've seen with things like ZPM in the past, it's possible to send all client movement and position data to the server, where it is all calculated on the fly.

I hope I'm not being too tangential. Since I hope to set up a server soon, cheat prevention is pretty high on my list. :)

Spotted a new type of aimbot yesterdayevening. This one moves the view towards the player at an very high speed, shoots, and turns back the way it was looking originally.

And always starts a vote to prevent himself for being kicked.

hm he didn't do that when i was there. But yep also exists.

this is what i was facing when i posted before.

Oh was just reading back when that post was, and you wrote 'and the guys named was "twice" '. That's the same name as I saw! But when we asked him to leave he did, so not that much of a problem.

Same or similar concept to the "popular" clienthook that made its way around the 'net before.

To be honest, I found that and downloaded it and then popped on some empty servers to see just how it works. It missed just about every time, and apparently requires low ping to actually be accurate - it seems to ignore all clientside latency compensation despite being clientside itself. But it only works on 0.8.1 servers. Come to think of it, I've not seen an aimbot on an 0.8.5 server (yet) but then again, there aren't that many of those.

It all comes back to "why are client movements sent to YOU and not all calculated server-side?"

I'm no programmer, but I think such an undertaking would involve a complete re-work of the ioq3/OA engine itself, which is a lot more than I presently understand. :(

Anyone here who's a server admin, please blackhole "Twice" ...

well i dont know about your test but when i was specing this guy he would snap around to where someone was spawning and hit them everytime. you could tell that it wasnt a human. also when i was on his team and was pushing him off the platforms he couldnt hit me for sh*t, i was moving around and his aim was that bad ;)

From what I understood, players movements (mouse movement) are converted into view angles, and then sent to the server and to your own client game to draw the new scene. So everything is calculated serverside, that's why delag could be implemented. The only thing that cannot be made serverside are the clients inputs, so yeah, there will always be a way to hook and simulate keystrokes.

Punkbuster tried to circumvent that by providing a detection for hooks and external hacking tools. It behaved like an antivirus, but for games cheats.

The problem is that you can always hack the system, it's just harder, and you can be globally banned via your cdkey, but it was still possible if you were careful enough. Punkbuster only worked because there were employees who would everyday look for new hacks and integrate countermeasures in the PB database.

You should put delag hitscan off when using that old bot, it calculates the lag already and aims in front of the other player. And there actually is an version for 085 here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)
yeah that wasn't the link ofcourse, but there really is an 085 version

why would you give advice on making bots run better? if some noob is using one and lagging to much for it to be effective then i say "whoopy!" :D

Do you want me to put 'for educational purposes only' on?

lol i was just mostly teasing ;)

lol ok :P

This is super late.. Didn't realise it received so many replies o.O.

But yeah I spectated them and could tell.. Saying that, recently I haven't seen any round (have just started playing within the last 5 months again). Or maybe I just don't spend enough time on Insta maps anymore aha.

 
You can't really use aimbot in a RPG..

Hey man, you posted something like 5 partially out-of-context comments in various posts (e.g. this is NOT an RPG. A sentence about RPG is senseless.). Please think before posting, thank you.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4808.msg50139#msg50139 (What's the connection with Warsow?)
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4592.msg50137#msg50137 (OUYA cost isn't our interest. OpenArena OUYA edition yes (and there is a thread for that), but console price in a specific country not. Also, that one is an old thread from when OUYA was not realesed yet. Now OUYA exist, and if you are interested into purchasing, you can give a look to http://www.oyua.tv).

Sorry if I can seem overly harsh, but 5 of such posts sound strange.  :)