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OpenArena => General => Topic started by: fromhell on May 12, 2010, 11:53:10 PM



Title: which weapon is worser?
Post by: fromhell on May 12, 2010, 11:53:10 PM
what is ur hateurite weapon?which is the hardest to use?
which is the worst?



Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Cacatoes on May 13, 2010, 08:17:07 AM
Invert mouse with autoswitch weapon on.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Peter Silie on May 13, 2010, 09:52:53 AM
rofl


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HITMAN on May 13, 2010, 01:58:18 PM
Technically, the answer would be grappling hook. Since it only does 1 damage but i dont classify that as a weapon. I think Nailgun is the worst. Plasma close 2nd. Both weapons requires predetermining where your enemy will be positioned.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HelloKitty! on May 13, 2010, 02:02:35 PM
Invert mouse with autoswitch weapon on.
No! Fail!

<3 invert mouse, can't play without it.

This poll is missing teh grenade launcher. The ultimate spamming weapon. No skill, all camping.

Grenade launcher and plasma gun are defrag weapons. They're not supposed to be used in any other mod.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Gig on May 13, 2010, 02:28:53 PM
grappling hook. Since it only does 1 damage...
1 or 2 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3685.msg31631#msg31631) damage?


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: MIOW on May 13, 2010, 04:47:14 PM
Voted proxy mines.

Plasma rox, and shouldn't be on this poll. But people don't use it often in OA CTF because of too powerful instant-hit weapons, bad maps design and lack of skill.

This poll is missing teh grenade launcher. The ultimate spamming weapon. No skill, all camping.

Dunno, maybe in FFA on small Q1 maps with too few spawnpoints it is... otherwise it's not.

Grenade launcher and plasma gun are defrag weapons. They're not supposed to be used in any other mod.

They are, check default Q3 maps, and pretty much any good map has them.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: dbX on May 13, 2010, 07:21:21 PM
There are no bad weapons. Only those I suck at using.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HelloKitty! on May 14, 2010, 06:45:23 AM
Dunno, maybe in FFA on small Q1 maps with too few spawnpoints it is... otherwise it's not.
Yup.

But the FFA spamming has crippled me and I have an organic hatred for the weapon. For a long time, I refused to have a bind for it :)

Quote
They are, check default Q3 maps, and pretty much any good map has them.
You are taking my post too seriously.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: GrosBedo on May 18, 2010, 04:26:40 AM
I should say that it depends on the gametype you play and map.

For all maps and gametypes, it's BFG (too speedy and powerful at the same time, can be good but with only very low ammo and easy to shoot place, like in the last map in Q3 against Xaero, else no).

For CTF, it's the proximity mines of course, because it kills the team strategy and replace it by a mere mines spamming (I voted against it, because it's the only weapon that really can kill the game for me).

Chaingun in DM, but in CTF it can be very annoying too if the player has too many ammo (but I guess it's ok, with time it annoys me less as I can see its cons).

Grappling Hook is not really a weapon, it's a gameplay addition, I don't like it but I can consider it can be fun for some people, just a matter of preference.

Nailgun and plasma are (very) fine for me, they are balanced.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: NetMassimo on May 18, 2010, 06:06:34 AM
I don't like proximity mines as I see them more as a position defense weapon rather than a weapon to frag your opponents so they take away my fun.

I don't understand the hatred for nailgun: it's not easy to use but I have a lot of fun with it.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: tosk1 on May 21, 2010, 01:03:36 AM
There are no bad weapons. Only those I suck at using.

I hear you brother

Mine is the proximity mines. They involve putting them where you think people will step on them, or being able to lob them at the right time and all that thinking involved and meh....

I don't understand the hatred for nailgun: it's not easy to use but I have a lot of fun with it.

Absolutely :) I quite agree


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Logan on May 21, 2010, 01:31:15 AM
I voted for  the  Proxy  mines.  They  don't kill fast enough for  my liking.
The  only  good  quality  is  sticking  someone  with them, which is  fun and  cute,  but not worth your  time since it  still takes forever for  them to go  off, and it's not a sure kill since  you can survive if your underwater.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: cheb on May 25, 2010, 09:59:55 PM
I don't see the railgun in this list, which is the worst weapon ever both when used by you (too chancy however good you are with it, and too low damage-per-second) and when used against you (spoils a lot of the fun  :( )

The only good thing with railgun is the satisfaction you get sneaking up on a camper and mining him without him noticing it.  >:D Then watch him go boom and your heart is all warm and fuzzy and stuff.

All other weapons have their points (I've never seen grappling hook, though)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: cheb on May 25, 2010, 10:11:18 PM
P.S. Mines aren't a good defense weapon. You only have to gain a decent speed to fly past them before they explode. When I gain speed on Hydronex running for the enemy base I just smirk seeing the rich mine fields the opponents have laid for me. All they do is beep and explode impotently behind my back as I sped by. Which, I must add, also clears the way for my not so speedy comrades.

Also, you can defuse mines by walking into their detection radius then backing away as they beep. Allows you to clear the mine fields relatively quickly, taking little to no damage.
Nah, the mines are good only for mining your opponents directly. But they are so much fun to use  ^-^

P.P.S I also like nailgun a lot, it has so much in common with Rocket Lauincher. Predict your opponent's movement and he's a toast :)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Logan on May 26, 2010, 04:54:39 AM
I don't see the railgun in this list, which is the worst weapon ever both when used by you (too chancy however good you are with it, and too low damage-per-second) and when used against you (spoils a lot of the fun  :( )


WTF are you talking about? The railgun is the best weapon in the game and requires the most skill. I love it.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Bane on May 26, 2010, 05:25:29 AM
Cheb I don’t think the rail gun is to chancy too use. It requires skill and confident in oneself to make the shot. Also about the rail gun spoiling ones fun by this I think you are probably talking about rail campers while I do think they are annoying they are usually just new players who don’t know want to do so they just camp give it time and they will hopefully figure out the game and if not just kill them a few times and they will stop camping in that area. Finally I was wondering if I am the only one thinking that maybe there should be another rail gun on the lower platform on CTF4ish so you can counter the enemy railer up on the platform.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Logan on May 26, 2010, 05:33:03 AM
Finally I was wondering if I am the only one thinking that maybe there should be another rail gun on the lower platform on CTF4ish so you can counter the enemy railer up on the platform.

Sounds good to me! The more railguns the better. :)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Cacatoes on May 26, 2010, 05:54:16 AM
Finally I was wondering if I am the only one thinking that maybe there should be another rail gun on the lower platform on CTF4ish so you can counter the enemy railer up on the platform.

Ouch, I'm already pissed by those who get the railgun on top platform, and come down and "stay in defense" (even if they hit you from the other side of the map, leaving you no chance to approach), and I fear it'd turn into an instagib like game, try it on this map, it turns particularly awful (well, it's another gameplay standard). Not the first time we discuss about railers on this map. Some other versions of ctf4ish (http://download.tuxfamily.org/openarena/autodownload/baseoa/) from uM clan have been attempted to replace railguns with other stuff, but they're not really used.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: RMF on May 26, 2010, 11:19:45 AM
Rail, space maps and CTF is rubbish anyway.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: WingedPanther on May 26, 2010, 01:26:59 PM
After a lot of playing around, I'd say the chain gun.  It uses gobs of ammo to do limited damage at any reasonable range.  By the time you're close enough to do much damage, almost any other weapon will work as well.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: cheb on May 26, 2010, 03:27:17 PM
Quote
that maybe there should be another rail gun on the lower platform on CTF4ish so you can counter the enemy railer up on the platform.
Absolutely not! There's BFG for that.
Also, you can easily machinegun the camper: first jump down onto the jumppad below your base, then aim and zoom beforehand. When you come close to the top of your apex, start machinegunning him. If he's on the  opposite half of the map, you've already covered half the distance, plus you took him by surprise. A noob would be unable to react while you are landing in the map center. Run to the jumppad and fall onto him from a slightly curved path, all the while showering him with bullets. A noob camper would have negligible chance to hit you.
If you have a RL, even better. Use the same approach and treat him to couple rockets. As they hit at once, there'd be an almost guaranteed splat.

With three noob campers on the same platform things get more chancy, but the bigger your satisfaction wnen they go splat all at once.

Quote
I don’t think the rail gun is to chancy too use. It requires skill and confident in oneself to make the shot.
The thing is, I either get a half dozen hits in row, or a half dozen misses. It comes in series :(
I too play Instagib sometimes, but the problem is that's a totally different type of play. railguns and normal game just don't mix.
And there is one powerful Murphy law of railguns: No matter what, you have NO chance to hit the enemy flag carrier as he approaches his goal. :'(


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HelloKitty! on May 27, 2010, 05:33:21 AM
That is an experience issue. RG is very difficult to master, and in order to become good with it, you need really good prediction and map understanding. If you look at great railers, they will aim at the correct spot before the person even arrives. This takes lots of skill and training, and very few people achieve it.

Most of us have inconsistent results with the railgun, like you describe. It makes the weapon unreliable, and you don't like using it as a result -- the more important the shot, the more nervous you get, the more you miss. But if you spec some great 1vs1 players, they are really consistent because they know exactly where to aim, and don't need huge mouse movement :)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Cacatoes on May 27, 2010, 06:19:14 AM
I almost never use railgun, however I'm pretty sure I can be not so bad at using it :P
When you play, you practice an overall. Well, what I'm saying is obvious, some good q3 player who never played T.A. will beat someone who trained with nailgun at his own game.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HelloKitty! on May 27, 2010, 06:21:15 AM
Yeah, I've had a Counter Strike guy who had never seen Quake before whoop my ass in instagib :P


Title: OA_CTF4ISH
Post by: Gig on May 27, 2010, 03:07:27 PM
Someone talked about OA_CTF4ISH map and its being "unbalanced" (railgun campers). I think a possible solution may be let the shots pass through the "grids" of the railgun platforms, like in the original Q3CTF4 (so you will be able to attack the camper from his feet). Anyway, there is a specific thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3740.0) about that map, we can talk there.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: fromhell on May 27, 2010, 04:22:01 PM
That map's gonna get nixed anyway. It's already moved in the SVN to a tribute pack directory. In case you didn't get the memo, a large number of tribute maps are leaving the base distribution


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Gig on May 27, 2010, 04:58:10 PM
a large number of tribute maps are leaving the base distribution
If you want my personal and humble opinion, this isn't a good idea. I find some tribute maps awesome (I've seen even a 24/24h, 7/7d server for WRACKDM17 only -a map better than the original one, for gameplay, since it removes the rail camping problem-).

Anyway, even an additional map pack may need to be improved... ^_^ And probably it would be better to fix them before putting them there..


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: TwEeK! on May 28, 2010, 11:11:51 PM
I gotta say the lightning gun irritates me the most. If an opponent has it, it almost always seems like it's all they ever carry, they've got it all the time, and that it only takes a fraction of a second to destroy me, even if I'm all super-healthed, super-armored, battle-suited and dodging well. Yet, in my hands, I might as well be shaking a baby rattle at my opponents. It never decimates my opponents as quickly as it does when they use it against me. And even if I'm trying to always have it available and really work on my precision/use of it, I don't seem to be able to accomplish either of these goals.

I used to feel somewhat similar regarding railguns, but that is passing as I improve with it's use myself. And at least I AM improving with use, unlike my abilities with the lightning gun.

The lightning gun reminds me of freshwater fishing with a spinnerbait, LOL! For some reason, I just can't catch a fish on one of those. I've been next to a fishing buddy throwing one just like his, throwing it just like him (or so I think), and nothin'! Never feel a tap even. Yet homeboy is pullin' in 5-to-10-pounders next to my nothing. I switch to any other bait - cranks, plastics, a shoe, whatever, and at least I can catch as many fish as him, although they're never as large (this guy is seriously a fishing badash (Ha! foiled you, lil' filter, I hope!). Someday he'll appear on ESPN at 4 in the morning....

Mines make me worry about them lagging a map (was a problem experienced in my old Interstate '76 days, having to do with the more mines that had to be remembered/tracked on a map, the laggier things got for everybody). But, they don't really seem to have this effect in OpenArena (GOOD JOB, CODERS!). And I must say, there's really nothing like having Logan slap a pair of them on you like earmuffs, or if he's in a bad mood simply hide one in your bootybox. It's just damn funny. Definitely more fun than getting gauntlet-humiliated multiple times in a row. Speaking of which, some day I'll have to relate to you all why I love the "humiliation" bit in this game - another precious memory from my days as an Interstate '76 "legend." :-)

     -- TwEeK!


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 29, 2010, 05:29:41 AM
OK grenade launcher is the worst imo. but i voted chaingun because it runs out of ammo so quick and it has a large spread so you have to be close. Someone stated that plasma and nailgun require you to know where your opponent is going to be before firing but how is that different from the rocket launcher? also mines can be spammed by noobs and rockets easly clean them out but that is not using them properly. you should pick one up then place them around not all at once but as you go along your merryway in clever tricky places so that your opponent has to be on guard for them ;) As someone also pointed out grapple isnt really a weapon per say. in some mods like defrag you dont even switch to it you just push a button so... still the thing I find funnest is that the bfg in this poll? and that it has votes lol  :D


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: 7 on May 30, 2010, 11:48:56 AM
That is an experience issue. RG is very difficult to master, and in order to become good with it, you need really good prediction and map understanding. If you look at great railers, they will aim at the correct spot before the person even arrives. This takes lots of skill and training, and very few people achieve it.

Umm, back in my time this was called camping, and this is not what makes the RG difficult to master.

Most of us have inconsistent results with the railgun, like you describe. It makes the weapon unreliable, and you don't like using it as a result -- the more important the shot, the more nervous you get, the more you miss. But if you spec some great 1vs1 players, they are really consistent because they know exactly where to aim, and don't need huge mouse movement :)

Camping in 1vs1 is generally not a good idea if you do it in the same spot for more than one kill, it makes you predictable and you deny yourself the opportunity to go out on juice runs and collect armor and powerups if you hang around for too long. That being said, finding a camping spot in 1vs1 is really not that hard once you understand how your opponent traverses the map on his juice runs.

If you watch demos of pros railing you'll see them making twitch shots fairly consistently, they're able to put their crosshairs on the target and squeeze off a shot in an instant (so fast non fps-players don't see it happening at all and noobs start yelling 'bot'). It takes a delagged server, high mouse sensitivity and a lot of practice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiP9HKf7yIw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiP9HKf7yIw)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 30, 2010, 03:37:53 PM
OK first of all not all railing is camping ok. and twitch shots work if your at close range with the person. and your both jumping around trying to kill eachother. sometimes you want to snipe them from across the map. Then you want to aim for where they will be and fire so that you wont miss and let them get behind cover. ;) and the same logic applies even more to rockets! try specing someone really good with one of them ^-^


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: 7 on May 30, 2010, 04:02:17 PM
OK first of all not all railing is camping ok. and twitch shots work if your at close range with the person.

Hey, even if all railing were camping I wouldn't complain, I've been a 1vs1 player for years and I think camping is an important part of 1vs1 tactics (if you do it right). ;) I was just stating that camping and sniping doesn't take as much skill or practice as hitting someone with a twitch shot does.

My personal favorite use of the RG is the RL/RG combo by the way: hit someone with a rocket, switch to RG and rail him as fast as you can. Absolutely devastating to your opponent, and if you rail him in mid air and he doesn't die by any chance, just walk away and let him crater.  >:D


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 30, 2010, 06:15:05 PM
lol that is awesome  ;D I have never tried a rl/rg tactic. Imma check that out. but isnt just shooting again with the rl faster? cuz you dont have to wait for the weapon to switch?


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: 7 on May 30, 2010, 07:04:23 PM
lol that is awesome  ;D I have never tried a rl/rg tactic. Imma check that out. but isnt just shooting again with the rl faster? cuz you dont have to wait for the weapon to switch?

If you switch weapons immediately after firing the rocket the switching time isn't really a big problem and since a hitscan weapon like the RG hits the target instantly but a rocket takes time to reach the same target the problem is reduced even further. Off course after the rail shot you have to wait for the RG to reload before you can switch weapons or fire again, and that takes a lot longer (this makes rocket/shotgun combos better suited for fighting at shorter distances, closer still you forget about the rockets and go for lightning gun only).

(You can tap the weapon switch keys earlier but in unmodified q3/OA the weapon switch occurs only after the weapon you're holding is reloaded.)

Found a few examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRs1B03LSAI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRs1B03LSAI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88gzEk_7Ds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88gzEk_7Ds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZa9e5wyhhQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZa9e5wyhhQ)


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 30, 2010, 11:47:12 PM
OK you can turn off/not show the gun with some command I can't remember. But can you eliminate the weapon switch time? because it seems like some ppl are just able to switch on a dime. But now that I think about it the times that I try to switch real quick are right after I shot, so if the gun has to reload, that explains it.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Gig on May 31, 2010, 02:09:49 AM
OK you can turn off/not show the gun with some command I can't remember.
DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Weapon]\cg_drawgun (http://([b) 0, 1, 2, 3.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 31, 2010, 02:54:56 AM
right you can show or not show the gun. but what about changing immediatly with out the delag while the gun "switches"?


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: 7 on May 31, 2010, 03:48:44 AM
right you can show or not show the gun. but what about changing immediatly with out the delag while the gun "switches"?

That's impossible in regular Quake 3 and OpenArena, you'll have to play a mod like CPMA if you want that. A significant part of of the videos you find on Youtube are CPMA because it was the mod preferred by competitive 1vs1 players before the introduction of Quake Live, which might explain why you think it can be done in regular Q3/OA.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on May 31, 2010, 05:40:22 AM
i have never played quake 3 or looked at vids on youtube.  ^-^ I was just asking if it could be done because like I said some ppl "seem" to be able to switch quicker then me and it would be nice not to have to wait.  :D


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: HelloKitty! on May 31, 2010, 06:58:43 AM
Umm, back in my time this was called camping, and this is not what makes the RG difficult to master.
Hrm, back in my day, camping is when you stayed in a certain part of the map that was easy to defend, and waited for the opponents to come to you.

Predicting where the opponent is does not mean that you're camping. It means that you can predict where your opponent is. You can do this while moving around the map.

I was talking about aiming at a spot for a second or less, not 5 minutes ;)

Quote
If you watch demos of pros railing you'll see them making twitch shots fairly consistently, they're able to put their crosshairs on the target and squeeze off a shot in an instant (so fast non fps-players don't see it happening at all and noobs start yelling 'bot'). It takes a delagged server, high mouse sensitivity and a lot of practice
I'm not saying that pros do not twitch rail, I'm saying that they will often anticipate where you will be and aim at the proper spot, in order to reduce the amount of twitching they have to do.

Surely you know what I'm talking about. Very few players do a 90-degree twitch on every shot.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: 7 on May 31, 2010, 07:36:12 AM
Hrm, back in my day, camping is when you stayed in a certain part of the map that was easy to defend, and waited for the opponents to come to you.

As long as you hang around a small part of the map to wait for your opponent it's camping. Defending the camping spot is not that important when playing 1vs1 where the goal is to ambush your opponent, so its better to camp out of his line of sight than close to the goodies he's going for. (Imagine picking a good spot for a deer hunt and you've got the picture.)

Quote
I was talking about aiming at a spot for a second or less, not 5 minutes ;)

Agreed, most anti-camping mods take action after a player hangs around one spot for 5 seconds.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: jessicaRA on June 01, 2010, 11:38:17 AM
grenades are a good replacement for rockets when don't have them, just have to take gravity in to account and the half bounce.  lightning seems hard to use well, i always get enough knockback to keep me suspended in the air when against good players yet when i use it against them it really is like shaking a rattle at them lol.  as for rail, i'm not good at predicting so i tend to be slow with it.  after 3 years..  lol


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: RMF on June 01, 2010, 11:52:19 PM
LG isn't hard to use at all, it takes a month to get a little good at it but after you can't improve that much. That's why everyone says it's overpowered, easy, powerfull, lightning.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: PWNAGE on June 02, 2010, 05:07:42 AM
Plasma Gun!

Especially with my FPS and Ping  :D


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Logan on June 02, 2010, 05:24:31 AM
Plasma Gun!

Especially with my FPS and Ping  :D

Wow, that's a horrible ping and FPS.

Is that how it always is for you?


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Gig on June 02, 2010, 05:34:27 AM
His ping is beacause he's playing using this (http://www.teds.com.au/www/6/files/modem_fo.jpg) (seeing his ping, I suppose a standard 56k modem would be better for Q3A/OA).

About frame rate, there are many DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options]graphic options (http://([b) one can work with, to get better FPS...


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Logan on June 02, 2010, 06:00:23 AM
Ah, that's wireless internet isn't it?

Wireless is the worst for online gaming.

His graphics look smooth though, could be another reason why the FPS sucks.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on June 02, 2010, 07:16:29 AM
deliberatly messing with things so he could take that pic and make a point?


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: PWNAGE on June 06, 2010, 04:55:49 AM
Ah, that's wireless internet isn't it?

Wireless is the worst for online gaming.

His graphics look smooth though, could be another reason why the FPS sucks.
Yes, Wireless isnt designed for online gaming, thats why im going ADSL (a bit better)

And the FPS is probably bad because om my S**T pc. at first it had no sound and no graphics driver so i updated them and thats what i got


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: Thoushaltdie on June 06, 2010, 07:27:09 AM
 :( that really sucks pwnage. i hope you get a better comp and connection.


Title: Re: which weapon is worser?
Post by: PWNAGE on June 07, 2010, 03:54:02 AM
:( that really sucks pwnage. i hope you get a better comp and connection.
Yea, well when i move house i am going to buy parts for this computer and make it better