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OpenArena Contributions => Maps => Topic started by: adriano on June 09, 2011, 05:12:15 am



Title: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on June 09, 2011, 05:12:15 am
Hi all!

Well, I tried some mapping (gtk radiant 1.5) and that is the result of my first map :
It is a simple but long (I hope not tooo long) CTF map. Bot play does not work (dunno how to do). And there is some little texture problem that I can't solve. So I think I need to try first the gameplay and then I can do some changes on the map.
I know it is far from perfect, so I hope to see some comments and suggestions. =)


DOWNLOAD
 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71172136/watadry_beta3.pk3)

(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/12/41/86/15/shot0026.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=194&u=12418615)

(http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/12/41/86/15/shot0027.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=195&u=12418615)



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Graion Dilach on June 09, 2011, 05:43:59 am
Bot play does not work (dunno how to do).

bspc.exe -bsp2aas "source.bsp" "destination.aas" -forcesidesvisible
bspc should be in the root of your gtkradiant dir.

Overall, map is nice for a start. It's just too bright and the red jumppad behind the flag seems to be bugged, I had to jump on it twice to get out from it. The layout is a bit creepy at first but I guess it'll be good when the map gets darker. Oh, and AAS compiled without a bug so definiitely good for a first.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on June 09, 2011, 07:01:04 am
THX. Added bots.  ;D

For the rest I'll do when I have time.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 17, 2011, 12:50:06 am
Can someone help me with the missing texture?
The problem is that when I try to play the map offline I can see all textures (+ it is not so much bright), but when I e.g. try the map on a server (on AS*clanarena) then I can't see the the wallbot_BLUE-texture but the wallbot-texture (red) works.

How can I solve the problem?


(wallbot is in pak4-textures, wallbot_blue is in pak6-patch085)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Cacatoes on July 17, 2011, 02:57:55 am
Yo,

- Did you edit your pak*.pk3 files ? Don't ever do that ;)
- Can you move every of your autodownloaded and custom pk3s into some other directory ? And check if it's better, playing offline and joining a server with no mods, like ROFL allrockets/instagib/ctf4. rofl Allrockets is unpure. rofl Instagib is pure.
- Do you have files other than maps in your custom baseoa directory ? These files are loaded and applied whatever mod you play on, so this can be useful or to be avoid, but one has to be cautious with it.
- Do you have the pak6-patch installed in your main game directory along with pak0-5 ? And are these pak0-6 files the only files of that baseoa directory ?


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Graion Dilach on July 17, 2011, 05:39:16 am
Is the server updated to 0.8.5?


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 17, 2011, 09:33:31 am
Thank you Cacatoes and Graion Dilach. I didn't check all your points Cacatoes (but thx although) because I found out that the server runs with 0.8.1, so that should be it.



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 19, 2011, 01:50:05 am
I'm working now on making the map smaller (because it seems like a cpm defrag map now x:D ). Then I want to add light+light texture. Which build/compile-options should I use for (1.) testing the map and (2.) finishing the map ?


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: VortexHU on July 19, 2011, 07:32:14 am
in both cases, try using GTKRadiant or NetRadiant to open your map and use the Build menu's commands. the commands marked (test) and (final) correspond to (1.) and (2.) from your question. they aren't really standard or requisite, rather you can use other build options (see the Q3Map2 manual (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Q3Map2) for information on options).

you should use bspc to build bot support. you can find it, e.g., at http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/viewcvs/*checkout*/radiant/GtkRadiant/branches/1.5/setup/win32/bin/bspc.exe (http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/viewcvs/*checkout*/radiant/GtkRadiant/branches/1.5/setup/win32/bin/bspc.exe). some instructions can be found at http://www.leveldk.co.uk/tut8.htm (http://www.leveldk.co.uk/tut8.htm).


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Graion Dilach on July 19, 2011, 10:19:34 am
Vortex, he already have those, he asked for a good combination. ;)

Neon_Knight has once shown his build config here.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2864.msg37217#msg37217


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 19, 2011, 11:20:09 am
Thank you guys for taking your time to help. Very courtously...


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: VortexHU on July 19, 2011, 01:28:51 pm
Vortex, he already have those, he asked for a good combination. ;)

i'll get better at paying attention to previous posts at some point. :)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: WingedPanther on July 19, 2011, 05:24:08 pm
I'm working now on making the map smaller (because it seems like a cpm defrag map now x:D ). Then I want to add light+light texture. Which build/compile-options should I use for (1.) testing the map and (2.) finishing the map ?


As far as the size is concerned: I've been playing it for the last two days and completely enjoy it.  I'd like it if it was marked as CTF Elimination compatible, though :)  It works well in that game mode.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 22, 2011, 07:28:49 am
I changed some things. You can see them here: http://clansos.sosforum.net/t505p15-watadry-map#7235 (last 6 screenshots)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 24, 2011, 05:20:48 am
Hello,
how you can see in the screenshot here, I have build some crap flambeaus.  How can I do that in game I can go through it ?

(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7530/shot0040j.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/121/shot0040j.jpg/)

p.s. do you think the light is ok like it is in the screenshot?



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 29, 2011, 08:10:49 am
I'm working now on making the map smaller (because it seems like a cpm defrag map now x:D ). Then I want to add light+light texture. Which build/compile-options should I use for (1.) testing the map and (2.) finishing the map ?


As far as the size is concerned: I've been playing it for the last two days and completely enjoy it.  I'd like it if it was marked as CTF Elimination compatible, though :)  It works well in that game mode.

It is only a little bit smaller and I think the new release (I hope today) will be much better.
About CTF Elimination I don't know how I should put this in ???


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 29, 2011, 10:27:51 am
And here it is:DOWNLOAD (http://www.file-upload.net/download-3623054/watadry_beta1.pk3.html)
It is just a beta. For the next release I have to fix textures, bugs and more. Have fun with it (I hope you like it more than the first one)!



p.s. you are allowed to critic it :)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: WingedPanther on July 29, 2011, 06:16:56 pm
The new layout makes strafe-jumping a lot trickier.  It IS, however, a nice map.  I really love the drop shoot from in front of the flag to behind and above it.  I didn't notice if the bots use that, but they definitely should.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 30, 2011, 03:59:10 am
5 thinks I want to say:

1.)
I really love the drop shoot from in front of the flag to behind and above it.  I didn't notice if the bots use that, but they definitely should.
I saw that the bots don't like to take the way behind the flag to get on the floor above. How you see in the screenshot here below, I was there with all my bodyguards.  :D Then I took the jumppad near of me but the most (not all) of the bots leave that way to take the jumppad of right side of the other 2 jumppads (at the base) to reach and defend me.
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1738/shot0044qo.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/shot0044qo.jpg/)

2.)I think there is too much rockets around the base. I should replace the rocket above the flag with a plasma or something else... EDIT: Placed some plasma for now...see beta2

3.) Why have those buggy stripes all around the map and how can i remove them or what I am doing wrong?
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4992/shot0045a.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/shot0045a.jpg/)

4.) What is thaaat?!? :o
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/914/shot0047mu.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/shot0047mu.jpg/)

5.) Last but not  least, there still the problem with the missing textrues on 0.81 . Idk if done all right with adding the textures...I just have a folder "textures" with a folder "watadry_beta1" in it and in last said folder there are the missing textures in .jpg from pak6-patch085.pk3 in it. EDIT: Maybe it should be textures/acc_dm3 :P

Someone an idea???


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 30, 2011, 05:21:48 am
I think 2.) and 5.) is solved now, so here is the download for beta2: http://www.file-upload.net/download-3624422/watadry_beta2.pk3.html


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: WingedPanther on July 30, 2011, 05:57:41 am
2) I like the rockets, but then again, I'm good with them.  What about grenades right above the flag?
4) is the lift after it's gone up.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 30, 2011, 06:36:21 am
2) I like the rockets, but then again, I'm good with them.  What about grenades right above the flag?
4) is the lift after it's gone up.

@2) The rocket is still there, but also the plasma. Idk if the grenade is good placed in this position...for the way behind the flag definetely good to have grenades but for the rest... dunno, I'll see.....
@4) Well, to say the truth...I noticed that, too.   :D

Thank you WingedPanther!


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Moixie on July 30, 2011, 07:06:56 am
Hello ! I tested it quickly during some hours.

Well, to start softly I liked the bases' shapes.
I want now to organize ambushes to careless bots who didn't see me and my troups comming at the 1rst floor (you should add a chaingun... Rambo for life ! <3 ). By the way, it's a shame that there are no items/weaps on the flag's place.
and.. why is there water between walls?  it looks so strange oO
same for the midlle platform, the water in the center makes me sick.. I always fall in...

there are no pedestals under weapons/items, it isn't so important but it helps people to know where weapons are and it adds some more details to a map.

Still about weapons/items, I think there are not enought health/armors items all around the map.
* 2x(+50 armor) at each side
* 2  spots where can heal ourself, 1 spot of 2x(+25) and another one 2x(+50), at each side
* 1 megahealth
it totallizes 250H/200A
for a so big map I would have prefered more armors and a lot more heal spots, something like 4 or 5 spots of 2 +25 health bubles

one last thing about weapons/items, just let me quote a famous author I love:
As a general rule, don't place the same ammo next to the weapons, it makes camping easier.

2.)I think there is too much rockets around the base. I should replace the rocket above the flag with a plasma or something else...
I think you should keep a rocket in the base/near the flag, it's really helpful for a just-spawned player if an attacker just appeared in the base. if you replace it with a plasmagun try to put another one near the flag because the other in on the central way and we must leave the base to take it... I guess this one doesn't help so much.
ok.. it was the last about weapons... I promise !

4.) What is thaaat?!? :o
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/914/shot0047mu.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/shot0047mu.jpg/)

entitie brushes feel the lightning effect.
The ones who move, func_door for example, can have diferent place on the map. when it's an elevator like in this case, it starts normally from below to finish above and logic would want it, when it's moving, to undergo the lightning effect which changes in fonction of the position, like in real life ! but it's not real life and a entitie brush keeps its origin lightning. If were a func_door and if you were born under a green lamp, you would live all your life with a green skin... if you want your brush to be brighter on its back, add some lights under it.

3.) Why have those buggy stripes all around the map and how can i remove them or what I am doing wrong?
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4992/shot0045a.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/shot0045a.jpg/)

I have usually this problem when I work on big big maps. it happens the most of the time when it's too well detailed.
have caulked all non seeable sides?

Well, the first time I took the medikit corridor (the one with jumps), I didn't realized that I moved, I was just seeing that thing around me had changed... It reminds me the last time I went to DysneyLand, when you see these big rollers-coaster, you think at first aht it's DysneyLand ! it's the kid's land ! these big strange thing can't be so terrible if 8 year old kids do it ! it's only once you are on that you realize how much strong kids are... it was just to tell that it's maybe too quick, what about 500u/s or 600u/s?
By the way, when you get on your seat. I can't stand men disguised on Mickey or on Uncle Scrooge who check if you put your security belt... it's the worst death I could personally imagine, I can't imagine someone who would decide to suicide into the "Space Mountain" or into the "Indiana Jones Roller-Causter"... I guess it hurts much... (Picture 1)

it's my own opinion, but I hate 10cm long blocks... (Picture 2)
don't make me think that when workmen made this floor they decided to put a floor high of 10 cm with nothing under ! I can't believe it ! I never really checked on a Parking if the floor was so high but I guess it's something like 50/60cm high

I found a camp place !!! ^^ (picture 3)



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on July 30, 2011, 08:37:19 am
Thank you for taking time to write so much about it (I love HOW you told it. :) ). It opened my eyes on some aspects and gave me some ideas for what I can do better for the next release.
But for now I want to play it with some players to analize more and then I'll work for the next release.


About 10cm wall: I know, I know...but it is more complicated than it is looking. If I change the size, I must change 10 other brushes and add new brushes. xd


About base: I had in mind to have not too much advantages staying on the floor above the flag and shooting attacking enemys. So I deciced to place the most health-items not near the flag to prevent that when both teams have the flag they camp and extremely defend the flag all time above the flag. To get some health they need to leave sometimes the base.
When I started to make the map, I had no water as wall , it was all close, just all a wall. So you can't see from above if an enemy is coming or not and can't shoot at it (because all was one round wall). Then I removed some walls but without water between it. Then I thought that it is very easy to camp at base and there I got the idea with the water: 1.) you can see through but not so good (to prevent camping), 2.) you can go through (to get the flag back) and 3.) because it is something new what no map has.  ;D
So to keep the 'water-style' I placed it in the middle of the map, too.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: VortexHU on July 30, 2011, 11:34:18 am
4.) What is thaaat?!? :o
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/914/shot0047mu.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/shot0047mu.jpg/)

entitie brushes feel the lightning effect.
The ones who move, func_door for example, can have diferent place on the map. when it's an elevator like in this case, it starts normally from below to finish above and logic would want it, when it's moving, to undergo the lightning effect which changes in fonction of the position, like in real life ! but it's not real life and a entitie brush keeps its origin lightning. If were a func_door and if you were born under a green lamp, you would live all your life with a green skin... if you want your brush to be brighter on its back, add some lights under it.

from http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44597:
Quote
func_plat:

Rising platform the player can ride to reach higher places. Plats must always be drawn in the raised position, so they will operate and be lighted correctly but they spawn in the lowered position. The plat will stay in the raised position until the player steps off. There are no proper sounds for this entity, only beep noises. It will spawn in the game and work properly but it sounds silly (see notes).

if you're drawing the platform brushes lowered, they should be raised so the underside gets lit during "q3map2 -light" commands.


3.) Why have those buggy stripes all around the map and how can i remove them or what I am doing wrong?
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4992/shot0045a.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/shot0045a.jpg/)

I have usually this problem when I work on big big maps. it happens the most of the time when it's too well detailed.
have caulked all non seeable sides?

maybe snap the brushes and patches to the grid, too.



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on September 03, 2011, 02:56:22 pm
Ok, I worked a little bit on the map and did following changes:
- fixed elevator
- map darker
- replaced/added new textures


That's not all I wanted to change, but I bring this beta because the prevous version was too bright and not really playable. So I hope it is better now. :)

DOWNLOAD BETA3: http://www.file-upload.net/download-3709543/watadry_beta3.pk3.html

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/5480/shot0053l.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/shot0053l.jpg/)

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/1976/shot0054.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/shot0054.jpg/)

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/9731/shot0055i.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/shot0055i.jpg/)



Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: WingedPanther on September 03, 2011, 08:30:17 pm
Very playable.  I'd like to see a more "jump here" texture on the jump pads.  When strafe jumping, I kept running into walls, though I could get some good speed going.

I'm enjoying the map a lot.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on September 04, 2011, 03:44:18 am
Very playable.  I'd like to see a more "jump here" texture on the jump pads.  When strafe jumping, I kept running into walls, though I could get some good speed going.

I'm enjoying the map a lot.

I saw the map on a server now and I think I know what you mean... the new textures seems very strange and I don't know why!

I used  the zzz.hqTex.pk3-texturepack and just picked the textures I needed in the pk3 (like I did in beta2).
The strange things are e.g.:

0.) tested with sv_pure 0 (with the texturepack in baseoa):
like 1.) but I can see all textures...no problems.

1.) tested with sv_pure 0 (without the texturepack in baseoa):
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3613/shot0056gf.jpg)
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1940/shot0057ux.jpg)
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6199/shot0058un.jpg)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/188/shot0059q.jpg)




2.) tested on a server:
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1129/shot0099.jpg)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3244/shot0101m.jpg)
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3995/shot0102g.jpg)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: pulchr on September 04, 2011, 09:05:40 am
the first screenshots are probably from standard openarena while the others seem to come from a server running aftershock. maybe different configs are loaded with different graphic settings and/or other pk3s loaded?


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 21, 2013, 08:52:33 pm
Adriano was kind enough to give a new link to his map. Soon, a MapRaider link.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/71172136/watadry_beta3.pk3


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: pelya on January 23, 2013, 06:50:24 am
I've tested the map watadry_beta3, but replied in a wrong thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45940#msg45940).
I was playing on a phone, so my experience may be biased.
Once you've learned all the map shortcuts, you'll make gameplay frustrating to other players (also, bots are easily confused by this map).
There are two shortcuts to the enemy base, via underwater way and teleporter, and there are too many escape routes after you grab a flag - run to the jump pad, collect the health and armor from the upper gallery, then there are two routes to run away from the gallery without jumping down to the open space, and you can grab a plasmagun on the way back. Once you around the first corner, you're safe - there are too many sharp corners on the way back, so it's impossible to chase and snipe you down, you can also grab megahealth while running to your base, and run away even without shooting. But if you're killed and respawn on your base, there are no decent weapons around you, you need to run ahead, and it's not unusual for flag carrier to grab your plasmagun and rocket right when you need them most.
The best strategy for flag defenders is to stay between two bases, where the megahealth is, the flag carrier will have to run across that area.
Also I dislike that lifting platform that goes up and down at regular intervals, it's easy to get squished. Why not a plain jump pad?
I was able to jump to the teleporter only after 10-th try, and the underwater passage is also not that easy to use.
The texture choice is okay, and illumination is also okay, although there are not too many variations, just the same ambient light everywhere.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on January 24, 2013, 03:51:05 pm
I've tested the map watadry_beta3, but replied in a wrong thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45940#msg45940).
I was playing on a phone, so my experience may be biased.
Once you've learned all the map shortcuts, you'll make gameplay frustrating to other players (also, bots are easily confused by this map).
There are two shortcuts to the enemy base, via underwater way and teleporter, and there are too many escape routes after you grab a flag - run to the jump pad, collect the health and armor from the upper gallery, then there are two routes to run away from the gallery without jumping down to the open space, and you can grab a plasmagun on the way back. Once you around the first corner, you're safe - there are too many sharp corners on the way back, so it's impossible to chase and snipe you down, you can also grab megahealth while running to your base, and run away even without shooting. But if you're killed and respawn on your base, there are no decent weapons around you, you need to run ahead, and it's not unusual for flag carrier to grab your plasmagun and rocket right when you need them most.
The best strategy for flag defenders is to stay between two bases, where the megahealth is, the flag carrier will have to run across that area.
Also I dislike that lifting platform that goes up and down at regular intervals, it's easy to get squished. Why not a plain jump pad?
I was able to jump to the teleporter only after 10-th try, and the underwater passage is also not that easy to use.
The texture choice is okay, and illumination is also okay, although there are not too many variations, just the same ambient light everywhere.

Ye, I know there are a lot of bad things (you listed some of it) in this map (my first map), that's also the reason why I have never finished it yet (beta).
I think also that it is bad playable on mobile phone or tablet because there is some circlejumping and strafejumping needed.
So rethinking on mapraider...maybe it is better to don't bring it in there (cause of unfinished map) and wants to play it, can download it here. =)

Thanks for your comment, pelya. :)


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: pelya on January 24, 2013, 05:01:01 pm
So rethinking on mapraider...maybe it is better to don't bring it in there (cause of unfinished map) and wants to play it, can download it here.
Why not? The map is playable, despite all of it's shortcomings, and there are many much worse maps out there (Quake 1 conversions are particularly awful)..
I think it can be improved by removing things - remove that underwater passage, move teleport to some easier to access place, maybe remove some walls in the middle, and you'll get a nice smooth game flow on this map.


Title: Re: watadry (by *SoS*Adr!aNo)
Post by: adriano on January 25, 2013, 04:14:35 am
Ok I uploaded it to mapraider...now attending approval.  ;)