OpenArena Message Boards

I'm getting a report that some guy named Jose is selling OpenArena on the app store for $2.99.

As I do not own any iDevices, I can not investigate whether the source is available or not, GPL compliance, non-free materials packaged with it, attribution, APPLE'S TERMS OF SERVICE, etc... and I do understand it's possible to commercially distribute GPL software for a price.

Selling GPL'ed software on Apple's App Store violates the GPL.

The GPL states that as a (re)distributor, you may not impose additional restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted in the GPL, but the App Store Terms of Service specify "Usage Rules" which do impose additional restrictions to the ones specified in the GPL.

More about this at the FSF (http://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store-gpl-enforcement).

I can remember that the VLC media player (http://www.videolan.org/), which is licensed under the GPL, had problems with staying on app store. I think one of its developers asked for its removal, or something similar.

The developer in question was Rémi Denis-Courmont, and he sent his notification of copyright infringement to Apple in reaction to the FSF GNU Go case I linked above.

Here's his original post (http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2010-October/077325.html) on the VLC mailing list.

Has anyone with an iDevice checked the app store? Is OpenArena in fact there?

You don't need an iDevice for that, because Apple would be crazy to ban Google's web crawlers from their site.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id422263923

Maybe i am just so blind, but i can not find any link to the licence or similar information.
there is also no reference to the source code ???

maybe the project lead of oa has to contact apple...

An iInsertAnotherWordRightHere user around, who can check it through the official market app (maybe an iInsertAnotherWordRightHere delivers more information)?

Apple's terms and conditions can be found here (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html).

As for the source code, the GPL specifies you must provide it, but it doesn't specify you have to make it easily obtainable, so it's perfectly legal to not distribute the source code by default but only to individuals after a personal request.

Aren't the id software games on the appstore also based on GPL'ed source code?

http://www.idsoftware.com/doom-classic/
--> source code at bottom

http://www.idsoftware.com/wolfenstein-3d-classic-platinum/index.html
--> ditto

Id can multi-license (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-licensing) its software because it's the original author and copyright holder. It's only when you derive your software from GPL'ed code that you can't re-license it.

Since OA is derived from ioquake3 which in turn is derived from Id's GPL'ed Quake 3: Arena source code, nobody can legally re-license OA, not even Id.

Yes, they can, but they didnt. They used Wolf3d Redux, which is under GPL, to make Wolf3d on the iphone, and PrBoom, again GPL, to make Doom on the iphone. They too have to abide by the GPL.  And anyways, they're they only ones that could raise any issue about this.

Nope, every contributor to the misappropriated GPL' ed code can send Apple (the infringing distributor) a notification of copyright infringement.

Since everything in OA is licensed under the GPL, not only every coder, but also every mapmaker, modeler, skinner, artist etc. who's work made it into the product that's being distributed by Apple, could formally notify Apple. (This also means that an ioquake3 coder could do it.)

Edit:
I'm not suggesting anyone should do this on his own. Open source is a community effort, so please communicate instead of destroying the community by individual actions.

If anyone that contributed with anything to Openarena has a problem with it being distributed for a price then they should have not placed their work under a free license, but a non-commercial proprietary one, but isn't the whole point of OpenArena to be completely free ??  This is when the free-software nature of Openarena is really tested.

The whole problem is more about Apple's TOS rather than the GPL.

Intellectual works (basically ideas) can only remain free as long as nobody is able to steal them, label them as their property and start telling other people what they can and cannot do with them. Just like you as a person are only really free when you've got some kind of legal assurance that nobody can take your freedom away from you: you're not really free when everybody can make you his slave.

That is old logic. the only assurance of your freedom that you need is the fact that you belong to the human species. fromhell and any other dev should be able to create free content, leave it alone for a while, and be positive its free when they come back.

Would you need legal assurance of your son's freedom if you left him at daycare? Or would he be their slave when you return to pick him up?

We don't need individual legal insurance for our kids because we have general laws prohibiting slavery and kidnapping. We don't have such general laws regarding intellectual works, so just like freed slaves in roman times, our intellectual works individually need legal documentation to remain free.

I think they called that the GPL

Exactly :) Code isn't automatically GPL'ed unless you put the GPL legal boilerplate in the code.

Edit:
I don't know if its clear how far the analogy goes. Just like born slaves in ancient times, intellectual works basically are non-citizens, have no legal rights and are property of their creator (slave master). Licenses like the GPL (legal constructs) turn copyright law (laws enforcing slavery) against itself, ensuring that every intellectual work (born slave) they are applied to and all of its derivatives (children, grandchildren and farther offspring), are free and can never be legally seized (enslaved) again. You as the creator and copyright holder (slave master) have to actively license (brand) your works (former slaves) under a free license and have to legally defend them if the freedom you granted them by license is violated by others (because as non-citizens they can't do it themselves) .

Would be awesome, GPL'ing your kids.

As long as they are <18, they are closed source! ;D

Going back to the topic, and im sure leilelol understood when i say openarena's point is to be free, that's in the case of GPL.  I think that if anything, this is marketing that openarena is getting, to new audiences, which pays by itself. 

Hello,
today I searched something on the Android Market and accidentely I founded this: Zeus Arena ( https://market.android.com/details?id=org.zeus.arena&feature=search_result )

I let you the folllowing comments...

Wow, sounds interesting!  :)

Unluckly, I have an Android device, but not the Xperia Play...

Wait, maybe Kwaak3 (http://code.google.com/p/kwaak3/) may be what I could use with my Milestone2... (but reading its faqs, it seems OpenArena is not yet supported there)

DAMN ARE THOSE LIGHTMAPS SCREWED it's like they jacked the gamma up and killed overbrights

Maybe you should contact him and ask for help to make an OA port 4 android?
would be nice to see some androids playing oa :D
you can contact thinderbird2 from this link:
http://code.google.com/u/108650836801986619502/

Just found out an OA version 1.0 for mac sold 0.79€ on the apple store :RIP:

Well, a more honest price...
but the different version number may be confusing for users. And how does it comply with gpl requirements?

Maybe I'm a little slow, but... Why again can't these things be taken down?

Because GPL allows commercial use.

Well, I tried Zeus Arena* and that's it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnTvs7OtM0I&context=C44e5f49ADvjVQa1PpcFNVOGUR79E7UsMlv-PB7Uu64QtiWsdfhho=
(sorry for the bad quality)




*running OA 0.88 on a HTC Sensation, <40FPS

Since its open source why did they copyright it?