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OpenArena Contributions => Maps => Topic started by: Joshua on July 26, 2011, 10:06:37 pm



Title: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on July 26, 2011, 10:06:37 pm
Download Latest Version (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4235.0;attach=3346)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/joshua_skelton/oa_modular_test_02.png)

Original Post

Lately I've been playing around with modern approaches to making maps and thought I'd give a whirl in OA. I'm combining small modular meshes with brushwork and so far I like the effect. In the screenshot below, the block trim pieces are models and the rest are brushes/curves. I know that if I attempt to make an actual map I'll need to use hint brushes quite liberally.

Has anyone else tried this? Thoughts?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/joshua_skelton/oa_modular_test.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/joshua_skelton/oa_modular_test_gtk.png)


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: VortexHU on July 26, 2011, 10:24:11 pm
i like what i see, and i'd certainly like to see you finish a map using this method, however small (i imagine it takes a lot of time). i would be interested in whether bspc works and what the achievable framerates are. can you create LOD meshes, e.g., single faces for distant bricks?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 06, 2011, 01:28:39 pm
Thanks for the kind words.  :) It does take a bit of time to make a piece, but they are highly reusable and snap together like Legos. It's fun how quick I can put together pieces to make a level.

So far my framerates are the same for other OA maps (~80 - 100 frames). I'm pretty sure LOD is not supported. I believe the geometry is baked into the map, and isn't dynamic like the players.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 07, 2011, 06:44:14 am
Well, if you're interested, someone did this:

http://www.leveldk.co.uk/q3tut_model.htm


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 07, 2011, 02:17:22 pm
@Neon_Knight
Thanks for the link, that guy's website is a useful resource. From what I can tell his technique is to model the entire map in Blender, and then export it out (or at least very large chunks of it).

I'm making much smaller pieces, usually 64x64 or 128x128. I think I'm going to test out hinting today.

If I were to make a small map, would people be interested in letting me know how well it runs on their machines?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: fromhell on August 07, 2011, 04:03:39 pm
I wonder if alphaGen specular could work on map static mesh geometry to give a volumetric shine to everything


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 07, 2011, 09:45:30 pm
@fromhell
Not entirely sure what you mean. Like faking specularity?

Small update...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/joshua_skelton/oa_modular_test_00.png)

Changes:
  • Lowered poly-count on stone trim sections.
  • Added arch trim models.
  • New chain model(untextured).
  • Playing with fog/lighting.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Cacatoes on August 08, 2011, 04:35:13 am
( Don't worry you'll always find people to test ;) )


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 08, 2011, 05:35:35 am
Staticmeshes are Unreal Engine's equivalent to idTech's mapobjects.

alphaGen specular is something related to shaders. You might be interested in checking the Q3A Shader guide. It's linked in the OAWiki, I guess, on "Graphics resources and tutorials".


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: sago007 on August 08, 2011, 09:35:39 am
I once thought about making it possible to create map in one of those tile-editors and then each tile would consist of 64x64, 128x128... mesh in 3d. It would put a limit on z-freedom but that is not used that much to begin with and once it was compiled to a map-file one could enhance it further.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 08, 2011, 11:21:46 pm
@Cacatoes
Thanks, I hope so. I'll work on getting something cobbled together for feedback.

@Neon_Knight
I'm not really familiar with UDK, but I thought they supported LOD and GPU instancing. I did look at alphaGen, as per your suggestion, and it's interesting. So I can do a specular map for models, but not weapons?

@sag007
I'm not sure what you mean by "one of those tile-editors". My plan is to make meshes and assemble them in Radiant.

I appreciate the conversation and hopefully something will come out of this.  ;D


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: andrewj on August 09, 2011, 12:38:20 am
I'm not sure what you mean by "one of those tile-editors".
I think he means the 2D square grid kind of editors, for example the ones used to create maps for Wolf3D (the original game which predated DOOM) and similar games of that era.

Very simple (and fast) kind of editing, each grid is either floor or solid wall or something special (a door), also each square would also contain at-most a single monsters or item.

There's a post on this board somewhere about a program to convert ASCII diagrams to maps, which is a in a similar vein too.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Cacatoes on August 09, 2011, 01:10:31 am
Like that: http://www.ibiblio.org/GameBytes/issue20/misc/stunts4.gif


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 09, 2011, 05:56:54 am
@Neon_Knight
I'm not really familiar with UDK, but I thought they supported LOD and GPU instancing. I did look at alphaGen, as per your suggestion, and it's interesting. So I can do a specular map for models, but not weapons?
About the first statement, well, the "staticmeshes" concept applies from the Unreal Engine 2 (UT200X) to UDK. :P
About the last one, well, I'm not a model expert, I guess the model expert here is fromhell, and IICR, has done that in the past. (Or it was just specular applied to player models? I can't remember. -.-)


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 18, 2011, 12:24:00 am
Updated the first post with a download of the map. It's here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4235.0;attach=3346) if you don't want to look.

The map is pretty rough, its just the one I've been using to test my assets. But feel free to give it a spin and let me know how it is performing. I usually get 90 to 120 fps.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Udi on August 18, 2011, 01:46:19 am
I usually get 90 to 120 fps.

I get the same. Usually it's 125, but on the upper platform I get only 110-115, and the worst performing part is the stairs when looking up with only 95 fps.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Cacatoes on August 18, 2011, 05:57:57 am
Haven't followed if it was meant to be tested, but running with my current settings, and from a "player" point of view, there is indeed some slowdown when reaching the stairs. It's like your player "grips" so moves are slightly affected.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: kit89 on August 19, 2011, 02:51:45 am
I suggest encapsulating each model object in a Hint brush. For instance each pillar object would be wrapped in a brush.

This way they will split the BSP as if they were a solid brush. It should improve your performance, and reduce all of the tower being drawn when you are at the top of it.

Looking excellent. :)

kit89.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 19, 2011, 02:00:11 pm
@kit89
Hmm. That is an interesting suggestion. I will try some experiments and post my results.  ;D


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: fromhell on August 19, 2011, 04:54:21 pm
Specular should work on weapons now since OA's renderer gained a specular fix.

Specular should work on mapmodels - there's a old feb 2000 map with one big prominent mapmodel that has a specular layer. it's a dmmq3 map


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 20, 2011, 06:11:38 am
If you're interested, current official OA maps can be divided in the following styles:
- Castle (czest1dm - ctf_inyard - am_galmevish)
- Space (ctf_gate1 - space platform maps such as oa_ctf4ish, suspended or oa_ctf2)
- Temple-like (oa_dm5 - many maps in the SVN)
- "Generic"/minimalistic/futuristic (sleekgrinder - oa_rpg3dm2 - oa_minia)
- Industrial (blitzkrieg3 - am_underworks2 - oa_dm3 - oa_reptctf11)
- "Desert ruined castle" (ctf_compromise)
- And some other styoe I can't remember now.

Perhaps these styles can be given an uplift with modular meshes like these?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 23, 2011, 09:53:36 pm
@Neon_Knight
I'm not saying this something we want all maps to adhere to, I'm just trying out different techniques to see if they are of any use to OA map making. The general response I have gotten so far is somewhat positive, so I'll keep looking into this.  :)

@fromhell
I'll add specular maps to my ever growing list of things to try.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: VortexHU on August 23, 2011, 11:08:33 pm
Specular should work on weapons now since OA's renderer gained a specular fix.

Specular should work on mapmodels - there's a old feb 2000 map with one big prominent mapmodel that has a specular layer. it's a dmmq3 map

what kinds of speculars are these? gouraud or environment maps? will they work on brushwork?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 24, 2011, 06:08:50 am
@Neon_Knight
I'm not saying this something we want all maps to adhere to, I'm just trying out different techniques to see if they are of any use to OA map making. The general response I have gotten so far is somewhat positive, so I'll keep looking into this.  :)
I know, but I was just giving you an idea about the current styles in OA. :P
Plus, many maps need a facelift. These meshes should help with that.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Nubstrike on August 27, 2011, 08:58:28 am
That looks a good piece o' work.

I'm kind of new with radiant, which format do you use for these meshes?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 27, 2011, 02:10:34 pm
Quote from: Nubstrike
I'm kind of new with radiant, which format do you use for these meshes?

The meshes are .ASE format.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on August 28, 2011, 10:04:42 pm
Just a very small update(so you don't think I've forgotten):

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/joshua_skelton/oa_modular_test_03.png)

Playing around with making alpha mapped fences. They are just a shader + simple patch mesh. I haven't had much time lately to work on the map.  :-\


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on September 01, 2011, 10:59:25 pm
Played around with multi-material meshes to see if I could package clip/hint hulls with the .ASE models. So far the results aren't quite what I was expecting. I have the multi-material part working just fine, but the player clips don't seem to function correctly(they don't draw, but they don't clip).  :-\


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on November 19, 2011, 09:20:51 pm
It would be a great idea to create a real map with this method.
I was playing dm6ish and oa_dm6 today, and thought that a remake with this method would be a great idea.


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Joshua on November 23, 2011, 08:12:39 pm
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'll give remaking a map some thought...


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Garux on February 10, 2015, 10:04:00 am
What are advantages of this method, considering, you can build in brush primitives mode (can rotate brushes w/o losing textures alignment)?


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: fromhell on February 12, 2015, 09:34:03 am
Not being restricted to convex geometry is a nice plus.

I tried to make a meshy map once. oa_taku, which had a bunch of models around a rather concave furniture structures.  I still had to use brushes for mesh collision though.  I meshed a bunch of things such as screens, plushes, body pillows, curtains...


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 12, 2015, 10:32:21 am
We had this covered in the Mapping Manual

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Mapmodels

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Appendix_C:_Modelling_a_map


Title: Re: Modular Mesh Approach To OA Mapping
Post by: Garux on February 13, 2015, 02:55:43 am
Agreed on model's advantages.
May be this map wasn't a good example, since building the same from brushes seems to be more optimal.