OpenArena Message Boards

Desura (http://www.desura.com/) announced a closed beta testing for the Linux client, so it's finally getting cross platform. WoP, Xonotic, Warsow, Alien Arena, ioUrbanTerror and Smokin' Guns are already aboard. Could we have OpenArena on it? Please :)!

Do they support the packages by themself or has fromhell or another oa "official" to do all the work?

I'll think about it

managing a 300+mb game is a huge undertaking for me, and i'm glad i do not have to deal with all those linux repositories

Also didn't linux already have something similar like dljr or so? i forgot what it was called exactly but tuxfamily was involved

In general it is a good idea to be part of this "gaming platform", but it could be difficult for this project if they need binaries for Win, Lin, Mac, BSD... ;)

I have no idea, probably something in between, like you upload content and different binaries, and the client knows what to download, but it's just a guess. Even if the developers have more work, it's super easy for the users: they can get autoupdates, dlc, mods etc. Maybe we can ransom the Desura team, that for a little help they can get all the Quake3 mods currently on Desura work with OpenArena :).

Edit: Tim Jung is the Linux Game Lead of Desura, and he was posting (http://www.desura.com/members/protektor/blogs) about adding 11 open source games. Maybe he will give us a helping hand if asked.


Yes, it's called djl (http://en.djl-linux.org/), and it only installs open source or free as in beer games. Desura sells indie games, the last two or three Humble Bundles gave optional Desura keys, so the HIB users could already have it installed, plus all the other modding fans will have it installed. I think the combination of indies, mods and cross platform operation are the advantages of Desura over any Steam clone.

Just tried the Desura client.


It's just a moddb app. what


even worse, clicking on "Blog" would cause your default browser to be bombarded with Facebook like, +1, Stumbleupon, etc. TABS for every post in it

no thanks.







uninstalling client immediately.


at this point i'm not putting OA on Desura if I have to deal with that crap, I do not have a sense of security or confidence from it

Sign of the time, fromhell...
If you like it or not: this social media mess will grow and grow. (no offense!)
But this should not be an argument against including oa in this peace of sw/site.
This is "just" a userside problem. main question: ist this project ready to support this platform if needed or not.
Maybe Udi could ask this guy, what to do (i do not think, that the other projects made special installers for Desura).

What Peter said. Sad but true, social media/networking doesn't seem to stop so let's just deal with it

I only can say that I don't like social media stuff. I'm one that still likes a thing called "privacy", and I fear that new generations will not even know that word meaning.

we will see, what happens in - lets say - 30 years...

Well, internet already is social, these things usually are closed communities under the authority of a firm, particular terms of services, with no or few control over our data, and so on. And they take advantage of this control to feed us with ads & such which reinforces them.
It's nothing appealing to me.
Now they have some use, features, provide hosting & such, but these things can be better offered by other means (including building yourself this same initiative in an open way if you're really interested in what it provides).
I don't like to say that but it's like they cover the needs of uneducated people, while the specialists we're meant to be both have to make the effort to explain them why all this sucks, and offer them better even if we don't have the big means to do it. Then there is no reason not to offer opensource games to people who unfortunately adopted these initiatives, but we damn won't sell our asses for it, we'll just build the bridges :P At least that's a bit how I see it.
Adblock is one of these good bridges, I wonder if it could block these facebook sponsors and all that pseudo-social crapness. Refuse-resist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ODNxy3YOPU) ! :P
Edit: I still partially (http://www.squirrelconspiracy.net/abp/facebook-privacy-list.html) wonder.
Edit2: Hmm, that's quick (http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/banish-social-network-buttons-adblock/).

Agree.
Still the question: is this project strong enough to do the work or will they do it by their own?

@caca: looks like you are inverted... ;)

We can help since we're good boys ?

Ehe, yes, I'm a bit inverted, and have no device to read these things ... (I suppose there are tools on internet to retrieve infos in them ...)

I have a device to read regular QR, but not your inverted, one.
And i am too lazy to invert your pic...

Just a notice for who will read this thread in future:
Cacatoes has put a QR code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code) as his profile image. But, unlike usual black codes with a white backgound, his one is a white code with a black background... and our programs aren't capable of reading it.

Anyway, I fear we are completely Off-Topic with this...

<devils advocate>
I think every living soul should be required to have a QR with his social security number imprinted on his forehead at birth. Because we all are running around with our smartphones documenting every dumbass thing we ever do and posting it on youtube anyway, this would put an end to all crime immediately.
</devils advocate>

(Can I change my name to Big Brother please?  >:D)

Hhhhmmmm... This is why the marketing function ought to be split from the developer function.  I can completely relate to FromHell's fear but as Peter and RMF indicated this is the future.  And while it's a scary proposition for PC centric old timers who are conditioned to having complete control, the important question is will OA benefit from being on Desura?

While FromHell has a vision of what OA should become as a game, the same cannot be said for its promotion and marketing.  For years, OA has been losing players to inferior games and failing to attract sufficient new ones.

FromHell is not the first lead of OA, maybe like the previous the fire is beginning to die.  As FromHell stated "managing a 300+mb game is a huge undertaking."  Perhaps it's time to get help in the form of an independent board whose sole responsibility is to promote OA in a manner that is consistent with the GPL.  I'd like to see ppl who aren't burdened with leading the development of OA, deal with its promotion.  ppl who bleed for it like Peter Sille, RMF, and Gig to name a few.  Many hands make light work.

Udi, thumbs up, great post.


PS:  I probably won't be getting a cake for this post.

"Conditionned to have control"
Ehe, I like the way you word it.

Marketing for OA, if that's your cup of tea: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3619.25
Changing lead, or rather make without a lead. Currently it's a bit of a mix of this and keeping the current lead. If you like to talk project management, see here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4221.0) (closed), and elsewhere.

About Fromhell's veto, you'll get accustomed to it, that doesn't mean the community should do nothing.

You're probably right to say we're PC centric. If you mean consoles/mobiles are usually closed platforms, then I'm rather glad that made us able to see what's wrong with them, at least I'm not a trend-follower-getting-fucked-allthetime centric. (edit: I'm not designating you)

at least I'm not a trend-follower-getting-fucked-allthetime centric. (edit: I'm not designating you) Sad but true.

I fear, it has nothing to do with follower :(

Hey thanks for the words of encouragement, it's just what a hobbyist project needs

I'm doing what I can to encourage new players, one rocket-victim at a time.

FromHell, the point wasn't to hurt or snipe at you.  But, it does reflect, IMO, what I have seen in the last 3 years.  No one can do everything... and to try is an assured path to failure, criticism and burn-out.

Being a good developer and project manager is enough to chew on.  The whole purpose of a Community is simply that... Community Involvement.  And I don't mean these arbitrary one or two-man ventures in setting up a Facebook or other hot social media account to promote OA.  But, rather, a concerted and meaningful campaign.  How to go about it is open to debate but the fact that it is sorely needed is not.

Oh, feel sorry WaspKiller, you did hurt Fromhell right in the heart there. Poor Fromhell :o((
My motivation will suddenly turn very low too :o((
OpenArena will progress even slower now :o((
Developers are very sensitive people who are too fragile to defend their positions and are affected by the very first negative remark against them :o((
I'm not a whiny victim, why you accuse me of this :o((

   I think in order to get more players and keep them we have to have some type of manual that come with the game. These would tell you very basic things like what each weapon does, what the power ups do, what the armor does, and possibly give you some basic tips like how to time.

   I know this maybe hard fromhell but we need more updates more often to keep and attract more people. People love, love updates it keeps them coming back for more also previews and trailers of the updates help too. Another thing to keep and attract more people I feel we need is an in game lobby similar to the one by Xgen in there game stick arena where people don’t have to leave the game but can click on a tab and talk to others in the game lobby and arrange games.

   Finally the most important thing we have to do is get our name out there. Back when I first found this game it was while doing a search for quake live which is bad from a marketing stand point. A year or so back there was an OA land tournament held we need more like that but possibly held in store at popular places such as a mall or wal-mart. Basically people played against each other or the computer for a small prize such as t-shirt or mouse pad is a great way to get the games name out there.
Also banner ads on sites like MSN or other popular sites would help get the name out.
However in the end we have to remember that this game is not for everybody and some people will just leave no matter what you do.

These are all just some ideas I had I figured I throw them out there to see what you think.

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual <-- Online manual, external from the game
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual#In-game_help <-- In-game basic manual, using a cfg file containing cvars with the help text inside, to be installed manually
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3999.0 <-- Thread about a "tutorial map"... maybe it could be continued...

(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Artwork <-- Some banners here, but maybe we need some higher quality ones, and we need to put them somewhere!

Damn I lost some cakes :o((
I've been punished because what I said was not nice :o((

you can have some of mine

Thanks, I was planning to fraud anyway.

I was about to make a bunch of suggestions, went to Desura to research the answers, and immediately hit the "you must be registered" wall.  It seems like they want to know who the developers are before they share any form of details about what they want from a developer.

I suspect that packaging for Windows/Mac would be pretty simple, but I can absolutely understand that Linux packaging could be messy.  The fact that they aren't willing to advertise to potential developer partners is fairly off-putting to me, as well.

Has anyone actually signed up on Desura to be able to read their expectations from developers?  If all that is needed from us is the downloads that are already provided, it seems like a win.  If they need installers provided, it becomes far less of an advantage.

Even if you register on Desura you get the same contact us things (http://www.desura.com/games/add). OpenArena is already in the ModDB/IndieDB system (http://www.indiedb.com/games/openarena), so according to the add game page, fromhell just needs to login with the same account and there will be a publish link, but I don't know anything about the process behind that.

Anyway, let's put this on hold and see where the Desura client goes, if it fails miserably then there's no reason to support it. I've received a closed beta invitation for the Linux client, I'll test how this performs on Linux.

To get it submitted to Desura, it's just a bare contact form for the project managing page.

nothing much I can really do from there.  It all feels so vague and unimplemented.











and i still freaking hate the client, no way am I installing that again

funny you should mention this, there's a wikihow "How to play OpenArena" article circulating about amongst the Twitters.  I approved at least 4 new signups today.

You don´t have to (like me, who won´t install it too) ;)
new players should :D

ps: thx!

If OA is setup at Desura, it would be a good idea for players to post some videos (the extra exposure can only help).

An E+ guy (not a developer although he had to list his name as such) from Q3 setup E+ at Desura and posted some old videos -- http://www.desura.com/mods/excessive

A very short pictorial guide on how to customise Desura shortcuts for your games that require special commands/parameters -- http://www.desura.com/groups/desura-tweaks/tutorials/user-launch-options

There are plans to release the client as open source (http://www.desura.com/groups/desura/forum/thread/open-sourcing-desura) (GPLv3 and commercial license too). Either that means that they were too ambitious and don't have enough manpower, or saw the advantage of open source. If the new development model gives features like chat, saving backup, then it could be pretty much the only gaming client you need on Linux. Steam will be impossible to beat on Windows and Mac.

Was beaten some days ago by 1ee7 h4x0rs ;)

http://www.desura.com/games/openarena

someone posted it already, I think that whoever put it up did a shitty job seeing as it installs all versions (Win/Mac/Linux) only on windows :/

LOL! My ModDB comments are there. :P

EDIT: Might it be there by virtue of being in ModDB? I see the ModDB images there.

I like how it shows who rated it now. (http://www.desura.com/games/openarena/reviews) Some of the "1" ratings are interesting, because there's actually very few of them, and some of them are notable, like a few overly pretentious self-promotional game developers I shall not name, a ioq3 guy, and competing games' leaders (WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!).
There's also a revealed massive string of 1's by banned accounts who registered on one day just to rate 1.

Should OA3 get it's own page when it's "done", or it can go alongside OA0?

Hmm I was under the imprsesion that OA3 is sort of years away? I mean, why ask now if it should have a different page if it's not even near alpha stage?

Well, according to lei, 0.8.8 is the last 0.X version of OA, so all the efforts can be placed in OA3.

I can't see why OA3 shouldn't get all the efforts. It's kind of like the transition between Nexuiz and Xonotic, but without the console version and the GPL war in between.

Then, shouldn't 0.8.8 be a standalone instead of another patch? Or at least call it 1.0 or something, if it's the last before oa 3.0?

looks like a small bury brigade on january 6th and 7th. random names followed by digits :P

Just visited Desura and its been given a nice overhaul since my last visit earlier this month.

The OpenArena page is looking good, but it really should say that it supports the Mac platform also (upper right side).

http://www.desura.com/games/openarena

Afaik you can't add Mac as a supported platform currently, since Desura itself does not support it.

I understand.  But that's the rub.  Most casual visitors won't know that or have the info to make that distinction.  It should be clear that OA supports the major platforms but Desura (at this point) lacks Mac support.

I support the idea of Udi and the comments of WaspKiller.

I am myself pretty recusant to any social network (I have myself no account on any), and have a strong view about privacy and transparency.

But what OA miss the most is not the quality, but a centralized community platform, and mainly a chatting system. The forum is a first step towards this goal, it's enough to maintain the cohesion of the developpers and contributors, but is not enough to maintain the cohesion of the players.

If the Desura platform can provide a GPL-compatible platform for community gaming, then I think that the collaboration of this platform with OA should be given a very pondered thought.

Now, if the Desura platform is still immature, this may not be a good idea yet as Udi suggered. But if time give Desura some legitimacy, the question should be rethought with this new argument in mind.

Lastly, there are other ways to make a centralized community gaming platform for OA without using Desura. For example, there are several ways to integrating a simple chatting system to the OA client without breaking the compatibility.

And I think that this goal (of providing a centralized community gaming platform) are of uttermost importance for OA, and should be pursued actively, not necessarily by the game devs since they've got a lot of work already in their hands, but by other contributors.

After all, the game is opensource.

Ajax chatting on this board would be cool IMO. Integrating an IRC client to OA would be bad IMO. I'd like to avoid IRC as much as possible.

I tried to integrate some ajax chat plugin on SMF but it couldn't install. :(

The development does not need a community platform.
This is what the community needs.

regarding the mac os port: you shouldn´t forget, that oa also has a freebsd port.

It's open, and hosted on Github (https://github.com/lodle/Desurium).

I didn't say that it was related to dev, on the contrary, I pointed out that it was for a better community support, and this is what OA miss the most.

Thank's Udi for the link, very useful. So the software project is called Desurium? Does it contain everything or just a subpart of the whole system that Desura proposes?

I know and i agree that a stronger community would be good.
I just wanted to clarify, that the dev team not necessarily needs a community to do their work.
If you like to have a strong community (as part of it), you potentialy have to organize it by your own without the help of the dev team.

That's also what I said earlier. There are too few contributors actively watching and participating in the official forums, compared to the whole userbase, and that is only because the whole community is cut accross many subcommunities.

Anyway, dev can also help about that by implemeting such features as a chatting system, and maybe Desura? But this can also be implemented by players as well. The game is opensource.