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OpenArena Contributions => Maps => Topic started by: Neon_Knight on December 07, 2012, 03:53:17 pm



Title: [REL] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - FINAL
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 07, 2012, 03:53:17 pm
I guess I can spice things up a bit in the mapping front, as well as get motivation to some people. :P

Restrictions: (Everything else is allowed)
  • GPLv2 compliance. You know, sources and license file. Especially for third-party assets.
    • Assets should be GPLv2-compliant. This is, Public Domain stuff and already GPL/GPLv2 stuff is allowed. Stuff made from scratch is allowed as well, as long as you provide the sources. Everything else (CC, copyrighted stuff -!-) is disallowed.
  • Reasonable filesize.
  • The map should work 100% into a vanilla OA folder. This means: no other requirements such as a compatibility texture package.
Choose the style you want, the layout you want, etc. If there's enough people, we can start the work.

For more info, refer to the Wiki article (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack). Release dates, participants and the like can be seen there.

Final release - 13 maps: (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/oacmp-volume1-v2.zip) (84 MB)
- oa_akomctf1, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm1, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm2, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm3, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm4, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm5, by Akom74
- mx1ctf8_t1, by Moixie
- mx1dm5, by Moixie
- oajgctf1, by jangroothuijse and pelya
- oajgdm1, by jangroothuijse
- oajgdm2, by jangroothuijse
- oajgdm3, by jangroothuijse
- udestruction, by Gig

From now on, polish.

Release date: January 15th.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 07, 2012, 04:23:49 pm
Maybe i can do something  ;D

....but i'm asking one thing: the GPLv2 restriction means that i can use only OA materials (sound, textures), right ?

Bye.
 ;)



Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 07, 2012, 04:34:04 pm
You can use other materials, but remember to include the sources of said material (.blend files for models, .psd or .xcf for textures... check this page on the wiki (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ) for info) and the license files as well. And your sources should be GPLv2 compliant (coming from Public Domain or other GPLv2 sources, for example).


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 07, 2012, 04:44:34 pm
Ok, i will do something for you  ;D

In case, you can tell me if i'm doing right ?  :P ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Peter Silie on December 08, 2012, 03:18:26 am
I am in if the timeline fits my needs (maybe easter as deadline?).


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 08, 2012, 05:41:36 am
Three with me. A good start. :P


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 08, 2012, 06:31:31 am
It is possible to create a sub-session to place our alpha version of our work, and some screenshots ?
 Or we place all here ?

Other question: i've some Q3A maps made by me. Can i transform it for OA? with OA textures/sound i mean.

 ;)


EDIT: Wait a second..... You still have one of my map for OA, do you remember ?
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4639.0


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 08, 2012, 06:47:46 am
All of our progress should be posted here, otherwise we would have tons of threads about the same thing.

About your second question, well, the idea is to create something new and OA-exclusive, but if you want to do that, then do it. :P


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 08, 2012, 01:57:05 pm
Ehm, maybe i'm only a stupid mapper, but i'm thinging one thing: can we have a special texturepack dedicated to this OAforum to build this mappak ? 10 or 15 textures is ok i think......
This prevent texture issues or other copyrighted stuff.

Anyway i'm working with a DM map  ;D ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 08, 2012, 02:30:20 pm
I'd prefer mappers to choose if they want to stick with the game's textures or if they want to create/use other GPL texture sets. Or both.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 09, 2012, 06:00:03 am
Hi everyone.

This morning i've make and modified some textures and start to build the map.

I'm doing it with Q3Radiant for Q3A, but the map work well in OA, with the music this time :P

;)

EDIT: I've added one more shot :P
Do you like the handmade coffins ? :P


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 09, 2012, 05:25:03 pm
Well, since we're at it... :P

Here're the first screens of the first of my two contributions to OA: am_voltage, a FFA map, possibly DDOM, depending on how well it plays in that mode, as well.

Right now I'm playing a lot of Unreal Tournament and UT2004 in order to get more inspiration for the map. It's going to be set, like the name indicates, on a power station of some sort.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Moixie on December 13, 2012, 02:50:32 pm
I would like to be in as well. In 2 week I'll get much time to spend, I actually have many ideas and unfinished projects, let's rock it !


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 13, 2012, 03:08:10 pm
Nice one. Welcome aboard!

This weekend I'll be able to do some more work on the FFA map.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 15, 2012, 07:17:00 am
About deadline (I've recently saw that line of yours, Peter)

Where we should set it? Easter, like Peter proposed? Before? After?


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 15, 2012, 07:36:38 am
About deadline (I've recently saw that line of yours, Peter)

Where we should set it? Easter, like Peter proposed? Before? After?

Easter maybe ok, but first we have to set how many levels we have to do for this community map pack.
And which type of map, i mean FFA DDM CTF and other OA modes.

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Peter Silie on December 15, 2012, 08:27:07 am
I thought of making an indoor CTF-Level.
I will use the textures i already used for god_speedy.
But as NK posted before: the only limit is GPL 2.
Is there a prob if i like to release as GPL 2 or later?


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 15, 2012, 10:14:26 am
About deadline (I've recently saw that line of yours, Peter)

Where we should set it? Easter, like Peter proposed? Before? After?

Easter maybe ok, but first we have to set how many levels we have to do for this community map pack.
And which type of map, i mean FFA DDM CTF and other OA modes.

;)
That's another thing I'd prefer to leave in mapper's hands, though for this I would set a limit of 5 maps per mapper. :P

I thought of making an indoor CTF-Level.
I will use the textures i already used for god_speedy.
But as NK posted before: the only limit is GPL 2.
Is there a prob if i like to release as GPL 2 or later?
No problem. In fact many CBP/CMP's I've seen for other games had maps released as a sort of "promotion" for the pack, so I suppose it's OK.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 15, 2012, 01:31:09 pm
Sorry, another thing: the original .map file must be inserted in the PK3 ? I have seen some OA map online that contain the original .map file.

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 15, 2012, 02:04:00 pm
The original .map file must be included, yes, that's a requirement for GPLv2 compliance.

However, where it's placed, well, that's another thing I'll leave the mappers to choice: inside of the PK3 or inside of the archive containing the pk3 and other files. Though, remember to include the COPYING or gplv2.txt file as well.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 17, 2012, 10:05:05 am
Unfortunately my map "The Crypt" as an orrible design :P
I remake it and put here a couple of screens.
.....stay tuned....

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: G One on December 18, 2012, 06:13:59 am
Will this community mappack included in the next OA release? (maybe set as an optional dependence would be nice)

@Neon_knight: can you write a list of included maps (possibly with some screenshot or link) in the first post?


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Gig on December 18, 2012, 07:52:42 am
"Lists that require updates" and "latest version download" in the first posts are no more advisable in this forum, due to the fact now you cannot edit your posts older than x days (this has been done due to some people leaving the forum making all their posts empty, making those threads difficult to read).
So, now we have for example the first posts in the OAX thread or in the "binaries" thread, as well as in the "map lists" threads, that contain outdated infos.

To maintain such lists, it's better to use a page on the wiki (http://openarena.wikia.com): this allows anyone to update the list.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 18, 2012, 08:39:28 am
@G One: The idea is to have something "official" released for OA players so to appease the anxiety for the next version, and to show that there's development in the game.

@Gig: fromhell has lifted up the restriction. Or so it seems. I've checked my sticky threads and I can edit them. Though at one point I had the idea of opening a page on the wiki.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: G One on December 18, 2012, 08:58:52 am
@Neon_knight: great!
My suggestion is: release this pack as an optional dependency of the official package or directly in this so GNU/Linux distros will include it in official repositories.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Peter Silie on December 18, 2012, 11:14:18 am
A 1st look of a draw of the base in the upcoming map (working title "fight").


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 18, 2012, 02:33:01 pm
Hi everyone.

....work in progress.....

I hope i'm doing a good job.

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Gig on December 19, 2012, 01:42:52 am
Moixie, IIRC there were some maps from yours almost ready, but that were not completed in time for the "new stuff lock" deadline for 0.8.8, and thus are not in 0.8.8. I don't remember if some of them were even posted into the SVN commit thread.
I think this may be their chance!

Also the "pul1ffa - hit the ground running" map was quite promising...
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3990.0
I'm going to send a PM to Pulchr, to inform him about this thread.

Akom: that looks promising (and a little creepy).
Of course, remember that those maps would need to do not require the Q3 texture compatibility pack (and that new textures from yours would need to be GPLv2 compiant -and not taken/modifed from uncertain/copyrighted sources-)... and it would be nice they would have support for OA gametypes (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes).


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 19, 2012, 06:22:04 am
Yep, that's another thing to bear in mind: no special requirements outside of OA's assets such as that compatibility package. The mappack should work as it is once placed alone in a vanilla OA folder.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 19, 2012, 10:27:12 am
Akom: that looks promising (and a little creepy).
Of course, remember that those maps would need to do not require the Q3 texture compatibility pack (and that new textures from yours would need to be GPLv2 compiant -and not taken/modifed from uncertain/copyrighted sources-)... and it would be nice they would have support for OA gametypes (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes).

Ehm, what do you mean with OA gametypes ? I have to make a specify .arena file ?

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 19, 2012, 10:40:58 am
Well, OA has 3x the amount of gametypes the original Q3A has. (12 in total) For some of those gametypes, there's nothing else to do, the map will work as it is (LMS/Elimination for FFA/TeamDM oriented maps; CTF Elimination for CTF-based maps) and others require one or more special entities which are already included in the OA gamepacks (Domination/Double Domination/Harvester/Overload/One Flag CTF).

Though this isn't, of course, obligatory; if you don't want to include support for these gametypes, it's your choice. :P But make sure to remove the "gametype" entity from every spawn point, otherwise servers may crash.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 19, 2012, 12:48:04 pm
I have modified this textures (separate in red and blue).
I have take it from an original OA textures.

(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/flags10.jpg)

Can it be used with an official map ?

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Gig on December 20, 2012, 01:15:48 am
Ehm, what do you mean with OA gametypes ? I have to make a specify .arena file ?

OA gametypes:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Gamemodes
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Gametype

Important tips about OA mapping:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes

More infos about mapping:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials

A page one should take a look before creating "official" stuff for OA:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/DeveloperFAQ


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: G One on December 20, 2012, 05:30:44 am
Can somebody write a guide about the setup of GtkRadiant 1.6.3 with OA?
I wanna help you with new maps.
Thanks.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 20, 2012, 11:31:07 am
Can somebody write a guide about the setup of GtkRadiant 1.6.3 with OA?
I wanna help you with new maps.
Thanks.

Look at here: http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Configure_GTKRadiant_for_OA

@Gig: thank you, i will follow your links to do my OA stuff.

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Gig on December 21, 2012, 12:52:54 am
I have modified this textures (separate in red and blue).
I have take it from an original OA textures.

(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/flags10.jpg)

Can it be used with an official map ?

;)

I suppose yes, but I'm not sure exactly what you have to include with it (maybe the original author has to be mentioned somewhere in a readme file?). What's the original file you took?

PS: about a map editor pre-configured for OA:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0 (I have no idea if that would need some update)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 22, 2012, 12:08:28 pm
Moixie reminded me of something:

If possible, try not to bloat the map's size. A setting which does this AFAICR is -samplesize. Some maps still look good without it. Which should be the ideal size for a map? Below 10mb for small/medium maps?


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Moixie on December 22, 2012, 06:45:05 pm
That's my turn to tell to everybody, what I'm working on. At the moment, I don't try to create any kind of universe, or any kind of map's layout to optimize the gameplay. I'm working on 2 recent maps which were unfinished (recent like 1 year and a half ago).


(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4164.0;attach=3294;image)



Mx1mn2:

I made it in 4 or 5 hours, it was just a prototype when I made it. I wanted to make something really simple, symetrical, small and playable on any gametype (tournament, free for all, capture the flag, domination,...): it didn't work as planned at the beginning. there were problems with the sky, the weapons places, the flags in ctf (which didn't appear) and the plasma (which didn't appear too). Also, I used a texture which isn't under GplV2. Textures and spawns are already done and don't need to be changed, so the map itself doesn't need much work. the First thing I'll do, is to make it only playable on FFA, the layout is simple and much efficient for FFA but not really adapted to CTF. Then, I'll work on the others problem, the sky and the pushs. It doesn't need more than 2 hours of work I guess. I you need more datas about the map, because you are a pervert, an old man or have nothing to do, click here: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4164.0 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4164.0)


(http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/15/83/37/45/shot0010.jpg)


Mx1Ctf8:

When I made it, I thought it was the best map I have ever made, but it totally failed. I played it with people once done and I realized that it really didn't work. the first floor wasn't used at all, the captures were too frequent, the items were too many, the paths were too shorts,... It wasn't brutal like I wanted it to be, it was just unplayable. If teams were not well balanced, the game was finished on 2 minutes. There will be much more work than on the other map. The layout will naturally change a bit. I won't only make the corridors longer: I will make another rooms, to make it less fluid but more interesting. That way, fights will be able to happen on the midfielder (before people only died on bases and the attacker could take the flag and run until his own flag, before the defender fragged him). Secondly, the items need to be replaced. thirdly, the bases need to be much more distinguished: this time I'll use anther thing as light, the light were much better when they were neutral (yellow). This map would need something like 6 or 7 hours of work: I need to change the layout and this ask much work out of the editor, on paper, I woudn't like it to be still as unplayable as it is actually.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 22, 2012, 08:47:50 pm
Those maps are going to be your contributions to the pack? Nice.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 23, 2012, 12:31:09 pm
Hi all. Somethings are changed "a little"  :P

I have take a weapon spawn texture from Evil Lair.

Tha downstair floor it's really a little bit dark but who care ? :P

I hope you like the new handmade teleporter with my really ugly shader effect.....i'll fix it soon...

 ;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 23, 2012, 12:35:48 pm
That weapon spawn was in OA as well. :P
In fact, most of evillair's packages are in OA by way of being GPL'd for Nexuiz.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 24, 2012, 09:45:00 am
LAST(?) UPDATE !

I've modified the teleporter FX. This is good for me  :P

I'm near to release this first map but first of all i'll give you the PK3 to try it and tell me if is good or if it is some thing to change.

 ;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Gig on December 24, 2012, 10:04:32 am
Hello, I have bad news. I PM'd Pulchr and asked him hf he noticed this thread, and this is his answer:
Hi Gig!
No, I hadn't seen that thread. Good luck with it!
I won't participate and finish pul1ffa as I don't have the time and motivation for it. [...]
There's a slightly later version at the AfterShock forums, but that's not finished either.
Happy Xmas! :)

 :(  :(

@Knight: Noticing you added Pul1ffa to the unofficial maps thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4075.msg45577#msg45577), did you use the latest version posted in these forums, of from the AfterShock forums?

@Akom... Maybe I lost a passage, what's the link between a map of yours and "Moixie was here"?



Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 24, 2012, 10:14:20 am
@Akom... Maybe I lost a passage, what's the link between a map of yours and "Moixie was here"?

Nothing, it's only a joke :P :P
(MOIXIE don't kill me :P )

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 24, 2012, 10:43:16 am
@Gig: I've used Google to find that map.

@Akom: That would be a nice easter egg. :P Something like UT's DM-Codex famous secret would work?


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 24, 2012, 01:33:58 pm
News ! I have uploaded the final version of the map, tell me if you like it and if is good.

Now what i want to know is: The download link will be placed here or send via PM at Neon_Knight ? (or someone else ?)

Tell me.
;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 24, 2012, 01:44:26 pm
What about uploading it here, so we can test it for the pack? We have plenty of time, the pack is going to be released in Easter.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Akom74 on December 24, 2012, 01:49:14 pm
What about uploading it here, so we can test it for the pack? We have plenty of time, the pack is going to be released in Easter.

No problem, but everyone can download it if i post it here.
Ok, nevermind.
Here is the download link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/u5kkxjkd18lolltqkrkq

Download instruction here:
Code:
http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t164-how-to-download

Enjoy ! I hope you like it and tell me if i have to change something.

EDIT: Another thing: i miss something, right ? The COPYING that i don't have, or better i have one dated 2006......XD.....

;)


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Moixie on December 24, 2012, 02:05:52 pm
I didn't test Akom's map yet, I download it once my post finished.

I worked a bit on the 2 maps I talked about some posts ago. I fixed many problems of the 1rst map, mxmn5 but there are still some problems  more... that I just discovered, it's almost finished. I worked much more on the other, the ctf. I added some screenshot so you can see how much it changed.

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4054)

Well, I should be able to post both maps tomorrow, during the evening. I wanted to post them today but there were some complications and I couldn't.


Title: Re: Gauging interest: OA Community Mappack?
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 24, 2012, 02:14:32 pm
Pretty cool, Moixie!

What about uploading it here, so we can test it for the pack? We have plenty of time, the pack is going to be released in Easter.

No problem, but everyone can download it if i post it here.
Ok, nevermind.
Here is the download link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/u5kkxjkd18lolltqkrkq

Download instruction here:
Code:
http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t164-how-to-download

Enjoy ! I hope you like it and tell me if i have to change something.

EDIT: Another thing: i miss something, right ? The COPYING that i don't have, or better i have one dated 2006......XD.....

;)
Well, the idea is for the rest of us to test the maps, so we can refine them when the pack is launched.

This week I'm going to post screens of my own maps, as I, fortunately, have a clear idea about how the maps should look.


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 25, 2012, 06:12:27 am
Very good job Moixie !! Like it !

;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2012, 11:30:20 am
Pretty cool, though you should use the new logo, you can find it in this thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1748.msg14802#msg14802).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on December 25, 2012, 02:25:31 pm
Seems that i am not the only 1 who prefers the old one :D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2012, 03:50:09 pm
IMHO the new logo gives OA it's own identity rather than presenting it as just a Q3 clone.


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 25, 2012, 03:59:20 pm
Pretty cool, though you should use the new logo, you can find it in this thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1748.msg14802#msg14802).

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2012, 04:13:19 pm
Yep, that way.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 25, 2012, 04:45:07 pm
Im sorry, no one have tryed my map ? It's ok ? I have to change something ? Tell me or i start another one. :P

 ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2012, 05:02:26 pm
I'll try it tonight. I've been a bit busy. :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Moixie on December 25, 2012, 06:03:13 pm
I tried it and liked it ! The map's layout is very simple and the ambiance rocks. Then, I noted several things and I wanted to speak about 2 points:

* First of all, you should go further on the gothico-glaucous ambiance (add a dense grey fog on the ground, play a bit with the light (green light, some shadows/dark places,...), more details on coffins and maybe more "Moixie was here" which are really disturbing and terrify players, I guess)
*Secondly, I'm not convinced by the weapons/items placement (particularly because of the shotgun on the center). Try to play on [z]FFA, during the journey, there are about 10 players on small maps like aggressor, rpg3dm2 or Oa_minia. As far as you can't be alive more than 30 seconds, you have to get a rocket launcher or a shotgun quickly. So the most important in a FFA is weapons. Any player who spawns in any spawn point, has to be able to have a rocket, a shotgun or a lightning gun in less than 10 seconds.

Here were my only aprehensions about the map, then we should play it online to really know if it works or not as a FFA map.

Another thing, concerning another thing. Unfortunately, I won't be able to post the maps I planned to finish. It was christmas time and I couldn't find any time to work on the maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 25, 2012, 08:31:16 pm
It's OK, Moixie, we have enough time for our maps.

@Akom, I'm going to play a bit your map.

EDIT: OK, here're my thoughts.

First of all, I really like the style of the map. Crypt maps are very rare, I can't think of any cryptic map outside of UT's DOM-Cryptic, Return To Castle Wolfenstein's second chapter (can't remember the name, it's been a long while since I've played that game), and sections of Unreal's "Bluff Eversmoking", and Unreal: Return To Na Pali's "Glathriel Village". Those coffins are very well done, I've recently finished the two latter games and those coffins reminded me of those sections.

Considering the visual style, the weapon indicator seems a bit out of place, I would recommend something else such as a broken floor or a "demonic/cryptic" inobtrusive deco for weapon indicators.

About the gameplay, well, I'll leave that for another day, right now I'm a bit tired. :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on December 26, 2012, 05:41:41 am
Akom, about that logo... is it just a suggestion of mine, or does it resemble a bra?  ??? ??? ???


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 26, 2012, 05:51:56 am
Akom, about that logo... is it just a suggestion of mine, or does it resemble a bra?  ??? ??? ???

I have modified the map following variuous suggestions.
Now there is a "jail" and it emit a laugh sound :P

Unfortunately a coffin gives me an polygon error and i delete it.
I've added some rocketlauncher and more shotgun.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 26, 2012, 06:26:27 am
That fog is pretty dense. I don't think it would be good for the map.
Have you tried other fogs as well? I've did a testmap once with every fog OA 0.8.8 has. It was pretty useful to know which fog to use and where.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 26, 2012, 07:13:10 am
That fog is pretty dense. I don't think it would be good for the map.
Have you tried other fogs as well? I've did a testmap once with every fog OA 0.8.8 has. It was pretty useful to know which fog to use and where.

Ehm, this fog is the lighter i have found, the other are more dense.

But i follow your suggestion and so the suggestion of Moixie and put it on the floor.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 26, 2012, 07:40:33 am
Yep, looks better, and more akin to the map's theme.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 26, 2012, 09:13:28 am
I'va updated the map....stay tuned....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on December 26, 2012, 11:51:35 am
Beware of the fog: the FPS can go down on old machines.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 26, 2012, 12:29:32 pm
Beware of the fog: the FPS can go down on old machines.

@Peter Silie: In the original Q3A maps you can find places with fog, after 12 years there is no more "old machine" with a game with IDSoftware Engine 3 istalled, i think...... however the fog is small....

Update !

I'm testing MY personal lights....

In that way the light in the map is more realistic.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on December 26, 2012, 01:48:08 pm
@Peter Silie: In the original Q3A maps you can find places with fog, after 12 years there is no more "old machine" with a game with IDSoftware Engine 3 istalled, i think...... however the fog is small....

I know some ppl here, who still play with a PowerVR ;)
tbh: i also play with chipset graphics on my netbook :D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on December 26, 2012, 02:00:58 pm
Beware of the fog: the FPS can go down on old machines.

I agree.
I have an integrated intel graphic card (i use an old laptop), so this
message is for all devs and contributors: plase keep OA lightweight.
Thanks guys.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 26, 2012, 03:23:46 pm
Light Update !

Now the "Moixie was here" banner have his own shader :P  ;D

I know, i have to distribute the light better than this ....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on December 27, 2012, 06:47:34 am
I have tested the version from the link above (24.12).
Looks good and seems to be a good 1 4 ffa!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Moixie on December 27, 2012, 08:09:59 am
The 2 maps I was working on are finished ! There is just one last thing to do and I'll be able to post them. Problem: I don't really know how to do this.

I tested every Oa sky, I liked the light of one ("toxicskytim_dm7") and the look of another one ("anoice1") so I concluded that I needed to create another texture which would look like "anoice1" and had the light of "toxicskytim_dm7". I tried and I failed: I looked for the shader of both textures and I created another shader which is a mix of the 2 others:

Here is the "toxicskytim_dm7":

Code:
textures/skies/toxicskytim_dm7
{
qer_editorimage textures/skies/multsky1.tga
q3map_lightimage textures/skies/skywater.tga
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm sky
q3map_surfacelight 150
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_sun 1 1 1  32  60  35
skyParms full 1024 -
{
map textures/skies/multsky1.tga
tcmod scale 2 3
tcmod scroll -.01 .02
}
{
map textures/skies/intelredclouds.jpg
blendfunc filter
tcmod scale 3 2
tcmod scroll 0.05 0.03
}
}

"Anoice1":

Code:
textures/anoice1/anoice1
{
qer_editorimage textures/skies/anoice1.tga
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_lightsubdivide 256
q3map_surfacelight 25
surfaceparm sky
q3map_sun 0.65 0.75 0.85 195 295 14
skyparms env/anoice1/anoice1 - -
{
map textures/skies/anoice1.jpg
blendfunc filter
tcmod scale 3 2
tcmod scroll .01 .02
rgbgen identity
}
}

New sky:

Code:
textures/mx_sky/anoice1
{
qer_editorimage textures/skies/anoice1.tga
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm sky
q3map_lightsubdivide 256
q3map_surfacelight 150
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_sun 1 1 1  32  60  35
skyparms env/mx_sky/anoice1 - -
{
map textures/skies/anoice1.jpg
blendfunc filter
tcmod scale 3 2
tcmod scroll .01 .02
rgbgen identity
}
}

In fact, there is surely a problem with the new shader, but the main problem is that the shader has no effect on Radiant, it considers the new sky as a normal texture with no effect.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 27, 2012, 11:22:31 am
@Moixie: Put the .shader name in the shader list.txt and it will work, make a couple of experiment to try.
The shader file will loaded when the radiant start, if not it don't work.

;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on December 28, 2012, 02:21:15 am
(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/mappac11.jpg)
By the way, consider that, due to inclusion of third-party copyrighted material (in the background), I suppose it will not be possible to put that banner into the actual map pack download package. Not that it would be useful to include it, but just to specify.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2012, 06:13:46 am
Well, mappacks need some kind of logo, for presentation reasons.

Some examples:

http://cbp.beyondunreal.com/legacy
http://ucmappack.org/pages/down.htm


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on December 28, 2012, 07:18:26 am
In this case, I suppose a map from the pack would be better for the background...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2012, 07:47:46 am
Or many of them. :P


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 28, 2012, 10:52:53 am
By the way, consider that, due to inclusion of third-party copyrighted material (in the background), I suppose it will not be possible to put that banner into the actual map pack download package. Not that it would be useful to include it, but just to specify.

Ok, i've made one more from MY map.

Now it is good and i will use for MY map(s).
If you (mappers) want to use it, do it for free.
All my jobs are free. :P

EDIT:

I hope that the "inventor" of the red and the blue color has nothing to argue about them.
I'm sorry but i'm noob about OA and GPL stuff :P

;)


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on December 28, 2012, 11:23:21 am
I'm sorry but i'm noob about OA and GPL stuff :P
Ok, good.  :)
I guess you used a program like Photoshop or similar, which uses its own format (e.g. .psd for Photoshop) to manage multiple layers, and then exported into jpg. In case such "source" exists, don't delete it. If you want to include the .jpg file into the GPL package, you should provide the .psd (or .xcf, or else) file, considering it's a multi-layer image.

PS: What's about writing "OpenArena" instead of "Openarena"?


Title: Re: OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 28, 2012, 11:36:07 am
I'm sorry but i'm noob about OA and GPL stuff :P
Ok, good.  :)
I guess you used a program like Photoshop or similar, which uses its own format (e.g. .psd for Photoshop) to manage multiple layers, and then exported into jpg. In case such "source" exists, don't delete it. If you want to include the .jpg file into the GPL package, you should provide the .psd (or .xcf, or else) file, considering it's a multi-layer image.

PS: What's about writing "OpenArena" instead of "Openarena"?

Err, not really :P

I'm using Ulead IPhoto Plus 4 and made every banner from a blank flie every time.....XD....

Oops, i'm sorry. I will use OpenArena for the banners (and make all new) :D :D

EDIT: I've rebuild all the three banners.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 28, 2012, 11:42:57 am
Basically, in order for a software to be classified as Free Software and in order to be licensed under GPL, it must follow 4 freedoms:
- to use the software with any purpose
- to study how the software works and to change it to fit the needs; access to the source is a must for this
- to redistribute the unchanged software
- to redistribute their modified copies of the software to others; access to the source is a must for this

EDIT: Further read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on December 28, 2012, 12:33:25 pm
I should probably make the banner in Blender. I haven't played with the rendering options much

I'm sure I still have the OA logo blend somewhere (the one I used to render). 
 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 28, 2012, 02:02:43 pm
Hi all of you  ;D

Can't wait to see your jobs :P in the meanwhile i have uploaded a new version of my DM map.

The download link is the same posted before, but i repeat here:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/u5kkxjkd18lolltqkrkq

Updates:

1) Added new light textures, made on my own little hands  :P
1a) To make the lights work i have created a new script file.
2) New sound (growl laugh) when you are near of the cage.
3) Now the map have the music !! :D
4) Deleted the Evillair weapon spawn point and breaked the polygons, see in the map what i mean :P

EDIT: The new sound (growl laugh) is made from myself voice modified with "sound recorder" of WinXP :P
EDIT2: I've forgotten a couple of textures :P ..... but now i have uploaded the updated version, download it (if you want) and tell me.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on December 28, 2012, 03:32:24 pm
Some flares on those lights would be good to soften up their appearance.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 08:12:48 am
Some flares on those lights would be good to soften up their appearance.

I'm not sure what do you mean :P
Maybe the ring of the light is too big ? Or too lighter ?

Can you give a screenshot ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 29, 2012, 10:06:55 am
Compile the map with -flares on the BSP stage to see what fromhell means. :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 10:39:53 am
Compile the map with -flares on the BSP stage to see what fromhell means. :P

Oops, it give me an error: ERROR unknow option "-flares" ..... why ??  ???

....


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 29, 2012, 10:59:38 am
Strange, I use it all the time. In fact, here's my common build options:

- BSP stage: -flares -meta -patchmeta -v -verboseentities
- VIS stage: -v
- Light stage: -dark -fast -filter -patchshadows -dirty -bounce 8 -samples 3 -gamma 1 -v
- BSPC: -forcesidesvisible -optimize

Which editor/compiler are you using? GTKRadiant 1.4, 1.5, NetRadiant 1.6, QuArK?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 11:21:02 am
Strange, I use it all the time. In fact, here's my common build options:

- BSP stage: -flares -meta -patchmeta -v -verboseentities
- VIS stage: -v
- Light stage: -dark -fast -filter -patchshadows -dirty -bounce 8 -samples 3 -gamma 1 -v
- BSPC: -forcesidesvisible -optimize

Which editor/compiler are you using? GTKRadiant 1.4, 1.5, NetRadiant 1.6, QuArK?

Normallt i use Q3Radiant202 to build and compile my maps.
To use other command like the "-flares" i have to use a newest editor.
GTKradiant 1.6 gives me an error of MAX_VISIBILITY_EXCEDEED and i try with the command line in a file .BAT with q3map2 but it won't work.....  :( ???

If you can show me in a screenshot what i have to do i'm happy :P

Maybe i can edit the .shader to modify the flares effect ? But i don't know how...

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 29, 2012, 12:03:30 pm
Flares can only be applied in compilation.

Have you tried NetRadiant (http://icculus.org/netradiant/files/netradiant-1.5.0-20120301-win32-7z.exe)? Also q3map2build (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/stuff/q3map2build.rar) as a frontend GUI for building.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 12:17:54 pm
Flares can only be applied in compilation.

Have you tried NetRadiant (http://icculus.org/netradiant/files/netradiant-1.5.0-20120301-win32-7z.exe)? Also q3map2build (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/stuff/q3map2build.rar) as a frontend GUI for building.

Thank you, i will try NETradiant.

In the same time i have solved the problem with the compiler (by command line). There was my mistake :P

Here the commands i have used:

q3map.exe C:/Quake3/baseq3/maps/oa_akomdm1.map
q3map.exe -flares -vis -fast C:/Quake3/baseq3/maps/oa_akomdm1.map
q3map.exe -light C:/Quake3/baseq3/maps/oa_akomdm1.map

It work well and here is the screenshot of the re-compiled map:

Unfortunately i can't see any flare effect....... i'm blind ? :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on December 29, 2012, 12:28:36 pm
Here's an example of a flare:

(http://i.imgur.com/lR7K7.jpg) (http://imgur.com/lR7K7)

See the columns?

Perhaps the combo of map/compiler you're using doesn't support them. Flares were introduced in some revisions of the Quake III Engine which includes ioQuake3. OA runs in ioQuake3.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 01:37:41 pm
NETRadiant unfortunately don't work, and i have to configure it :P

I'm trying with q3map2build that seems better and more configurable.
I have configure it with your suggested values.

Soon i'll give you a shoot if it work.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on December 29, 2012, 01:49:43 pm
Shaders would require the q3map_flare key iirc, like

Code:
texture/somelights/light_356
{
            q3map_flare flareShader
           {
               map textures/somelights/bonk.pcx


Note that the name of the flare shader is loaded but never actually used by the renderer, since it always uses flareShader.


BTW flares were part of Q3A from the 1.03 versions, and they were regressed in 1.08. Vanilla q3map should compile flares fine.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 29, 2012, 02:07:50 pm
Finally it work !!  ;D

But as you can see from the screenshot, now it's more dark than before, and there is no flare....
Maybe i have to make an appropriate texture ?

I'm thinking that with flare it will be more cool.

EDIT: @fromhell: can you give me the shader for build the map with flares ?  :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on December 30, 2012, 12:46:12 pm
Hi all  ;D

I have completed the map, unfortunately without flares glow or bloom effect.
I try more script and search in the internet but found nothing of usefull.

Updates:

1) Added some lights.
2) Modified the "moixie" banner.
3) Changed the noise from the cage.
4) Other minor stuff.

Here is the Download link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/u5kkxjkd18lolltqkrkq

 8)

EDIT: For the record, i'm working to another map :P
EDIT2: Happy New Year to all of you !!!  ;D ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 01, 2013, 12:28:39 pm
Thanks, the same I say. :P

I've figured out that I've promised to show my work last week, and haven't done so. I was a bit busy trying to get many maps for OA uploaded to MapRaider, I had 10 or so waiting to be confirmed.

So, I'll dedicate this week to my OACMP work.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 01, 2013, 01:29:16 pm
@Neon_Knight: Don't worry, it's a wrong period to try to do something.....

Anyway, the last night some alchool make me drunk and this morning i've done this
Akom7 conversion/adaptation for this mappack.

P.S.: I've posted another map to mapraider :P
P.P.S.: Can i make a banner with the word "Frag Bastard" or "Neon_Knight is in Action" ? :P  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 01, 2013, 02:43:07 pm
Do it. Easter eggs are always welcome. :P

I might sneak one or two in my maps. I love them.

First screenshot of my CTF map. Bioxide. It's set in some kind of laboratory/water treatment facility. I've finished the structure in November, but I'm starting with the texturization now.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 01, 2013, 02:51:02 pm
Do it. Easter eggs are always welcome. :P

I might sneak one or two in my maps. I love them.

 ;D ;D

Quote from: Neon_Knight
First screenshot of my CTF map. Bioxide. It's set in some kind of laboratory/water treatment facility. I've finished the structure in November, but I'm starting with the texturization now.

It will be a large map ? I mean, for 12-24 players ? It seems quite large.
I like it ! :P

;)



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 01, 2013, 03:03:01 pm
It has plenty of areas, seven in total (3 per base, plus the central), but I don't think it will be too large. I'd say it's a 5on5 map.

I'm focusing on trying to reach performance, good playability and good looks.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 01, 2013, 03:48:05 pm
 ;D ;D

What do you think ? Anyway, in the map the banners will have the transparent effect without the black colour.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 02, 2013, 04:37:05 am
Sorry for the double post, but this morning i've completed the map and want to let you try it :D

Code:
https://www.box.com/s/jur19slylgpa4kffchjh

Tell me if you like it and if it is bugs or other issues.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 02, 2013, 04:56:24 am
D/Ling, checking later.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 02, 2013, 08:13:15 am
Hello everybody! Happy new year!

I'm back, but I'm quite in hurry... I just want to ask Akom if he enabled bloom and flares in his OA client.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Flares
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Bloom

Please notice: in OA 0.8.8, Bloom works only if you first forced r_texturebits 32, else it will be automatically disabled.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 02, 2013, 08:31:28 am
Did a bit more of work in bioxide.

I'm starting to fill the central area.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 02, 2013, 09:07:09 am
A name of a map of yours so similar to one other forum user name (Biox1dE)? May it create a bit of confusion? Or is the map based upon an idea from Biox1dE?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 02, 2013, 09:30:44 am
I just happened to choose that name from a list of names I've left on the Map Ideas (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Map_Ideas#Map_Name_Ideas) page on the wiki. Never thought about that.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 02, 2013, 03:33:43 pm
Hello everybody! Happy new year!

I'm back, but I'm quite in hurry... I just want to ask Akom if he enabled bloom and flares in his OA client.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Flares
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Bloom

Please notice: in OA 0.8.8, Bloom works only if you first forced r_texturebits 32, else it will be automatically disabled.


The flare effect dosen't work, don't know why, the bloom effect give me some graphic error, maybe is my graphic card :P

By the way, in the PK3 you can find the .map file, try to apply some effect. May be you're more lucky than me. I have try with script/shaders but nothing work..... :-[ .....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Neon_Knight: Your map seems nice to play, i'll try it when it's done !!  ;D ;D

Someone tried the map i've posted ? It's ok ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 03, 2013, 02:40:27 am
Akom, I've just given it a very quick try. Simple and nice.
I noticed a graphic glitch in the central hole of the upper floor (you probably already noticed it).
It may be nice to add location names (e.g. "upper floor" and "lower floor"), and support for gametypes as Domination and Double Domination.

Anyway, I must ask you.... from where do those textures in the pak come from?

PS: If possible, it may be nice to create the "messages" (e.g. "Akom was here") using less "plain" fonts, like using Photoshop layers "blending options"...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 03, 2013, 03:08:18 am
Akom, I've just given it a very quick try. Simple and nice.
I noticed a graphic glitch in the central hole of the upper floor (you probably already noticed it).

Yes, i've noticed already this error, i'll fix it soon. :P

Quote from: Gig
It may be nice to add location names (e.g. "upper floor" and "lower floor"), and support for gametypes as Domination and Double Domination.

In this little map it's irrelevant give names at locations, you are dead first of read the location names. :) :)

Quote from: Gig
Anyway, I must ask you.... from where do those textures in the pak come from?

From the Evil Lair textures pack. Can not use it ? As Neon_Knight said (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45583#msg45583), most of evillair's packages are in OA by way of being GPL'd for Nexuiz.

Quote from: Gig
PS: If possible, it may be nice to create the "messages" (e.g. "Akom was here") using less "plain" fonts, like using Photoshop layers "blending options"...

I know, i have to use another fonts :P ....i'm watching around for other fonts type.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 03, 2013, 03:31:17 am
More than the fonts themself, I was talking about "special effects" over them. Any font type, by itself, can change the shape, but anyway it's one-plain-color. One has to use programs that allow "wordart" or layer options or rendering options to give them more "deep", like a different color outline or a shadow.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 03, 2013, 03:35:22 am
More than the fonts themself, I was talking about "special effects" over them. Any font type, by itself, can change the shape, but anyway it's one-plain-color. One has to use programs that allow "wordart" or layer options or rendering options to give them more "deep", like a different color outline or a shadow.

Nevermind at the fonts effects, don't think this way now.

First of all, i want to be sure that i can use the Evil Lair textures without problem, what do you think about that ? Tell me please.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 03, 2013, 05:48:38 am
Please give us a link to the file you downloaded, so we can take a look if it contains some licensing infos.

PS: are you sure they are not already in OA? With the fact you are using Q3Radiant, are you sure you are using OA textures while mapping?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 03, 2013, 05:50:00 am
Now they're linked in the first post.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 03, 2013, 06:03:54 am
Please give us a link to the file you downloaded, so we can take a look if it contains some licensing infos.

PS: are you sure they are not already in OA? With the fact you are using Q3Radiant, are you sure you are using OA textures while mapping?

Well, i've download it from http://www.evillair.net/v2/ (official site)
Maybe not all textures was released with GPL. Eventually i will insert the readme.txt with the map.

I have copy/paste the textures from OA to Q3Radiant directory in a new istallation.
To test the maps i make, i have a blank Openarena 0.8.8 istalled.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 03, 2013, 06:36:11 am
You should have checked out the Nexuiz packages instead. D/Ling from evillair's page isn't recommended if we're going to stick up with GPLv2.

I shall upload the GPLv2 textures somewhere else.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 03, 2013, 07:52:47 am
Uhm... at the bottom of Evillair textures page (http://www.evillair.net/v2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=43), I read "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.". I suppose CC-NC-ND is NOT compatible with GPL at all.
And when I try do download one of those packages, I have to agree to these conditions:
Quote
[Copyright/Permissions]
-You may not edit, modify any textures within this archive unless given permission to do so by the author.
-You may not use these textures as base for your own.
-You may convert these textures to other game formats but only with the author's permission.
-You may rename the textures.
-You may use these texture in your maps/mods/tc's as long as you give me credit.
-I encourage you to edit the .shader to suit your needs.

So, it seems you can use them in your own maps, without modifying them, and giving credit to "Evil lair" (e.g. writing in your readme "Textures a.jpg, b.tga, c.jpg in textures/akom3ctf/ folder are property of Yves Allaire aka Evil lair -http://evillair.net-"), but that cannot be applied to this map pack: it wants to be somehow an "official" OA expansion and so everything has to be available under GPLv2.
One may ask Evil lair to re-license them under GPLv2, now... but I don't know if he would agree.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 03, 2013, 08:18:54 am
ND and NC are non-free clauses.
Yes, try to ask Evil lair to relicense them under GPLv2, this is the better starting point.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 03, 2013, 08:25:44 am
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=486.msg3060#msg3060
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1405.msg10544#msg10544
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1388.msg10515#msg10515

evillair textures nicked from Nexuiz (NOT from his own page) are allowed into OA.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 03, 2013, 08:31:19 am
evillair textures nicked from Nexuiz (NOT from his own page) are allowed into OA.

Are them released under GPL or some other libre license?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 03, 2013, 08:36:07 am
Quote
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1388.msg10515#msg10515

It seems that someone  have asked directly to Evillair by e-mail and him responded positively, we only have to insert him in mappack (or PK3) credits.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 03, 2013, 11:22:06 am
For convenience's sake, here're the evillair textures nicked from Nexuiz's last SVN snapshot: http://depositfiles.com/files/ezg1k1ouu. It doesn't includes the bump, gloss and normalmaps. OA doesn't need them.

Also, among Nexuiz's documents there's also the permission to use SimonOC's egyptsoc package:

Quote
Hello,

greetings from a conference in greece. I just got permission from Simon O'Callaghan to distribute the textures from http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials/tpegypt/index.htm under the terms of the GPL with future versions of Nexuiz, provided classical attribution is given and that the game documentation includes a link to http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials.htm so artists can find his stuff.

Thanks alot Simon!

This is good news, as some Nexuiz community maps use these textures, albeit as of yet licensed under a GPL-incompatible Creative Commons license.

Does anybody feel like creating bumpmaps/normalmaps and glossmaps for that set of textures?

-- SavageX

So I've uploaded them too: http://depositfiles.com/files/nti9zh9av

It includes said file.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 03, 2013, 11:25:45 am
If they weren't GPL, then I wouldn't have included them in the first place.  That said, the license on the packs available through his site are different and the ones Nexuiz used were GPLed on appeal in 2005. (though no psd sources, I have a feeling it was a "ok just shutup they're gpl now can you please stop bugging me" response)  That is why OA is limited to having those particular evillair textures and nothing else.

 However in retrospect, I fear using the evillair textures pose another problem - the 'game looks same' problem, since there's so many projects that also use those textures, and that they're a bit low resolution


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 03, 2013, 11:34:03 am
The map count has 3 FFA-based maps and 4 CTF-based ones. I might try my hand at another FFA map, just to balance.

Also, I'm thinking on releasing two betas of the pack before the final Easter release. First beta will be launched in February 15th and second beta in March 15th. What do you think? Are OK the dates?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 03, 2013, 01:12:51 pm
For the dates, no problem. Do what you want, if you need that kind of  time it's ok.

About the textures, i see that all the textures i have used are GPL'd, aren't they ?
Tell me.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 04, 2013, 01:21:22 am
I am fine with the suggested dates.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 04, 2013, 10:26:33 am
I'm working on my new map and i have made this bouncepad/jumppad.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 04, 2013, 10:51:02 am
That launcher is pretty good.
The jumppad would be good in a square brush.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 05, 2013, 08:29:58 am
That launcher is pretty good.
The jumppad would be good in a square brush.

After a lot of tries, i've finally done it !
I have rebuild the jump pads that have a little bug.
The big problem was the script for the pads with effects without black around. I have made a lot of mistakes :P but finally i win the match !

I hope you like it ! :P

 ;D ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 05, 2013, 09:48:49 am
hope you like it ! :P

 ;D ;D

Seems very nice.
Can you upload some other image of the rest of the map?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 05, 2013, 01:27:53 pm
hope you like it ! :P
 ;D ;D

Seems very nice.
Can you upload some other image of the rest of the map?

The map you mean is a test map, four walls to see the light effect and the jump effect  :P ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 05, 2013, 01:34:10 pm
¿Base Siege from Q3: Team Arena? :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 05, 2013, 02:11:04 pm
¿Base Siege from Q3: Team Arena? :P

Nope ! :P :D

Today i have played Q3A in q3dm6 map and it's been an inspiration.
No idea of what kind of map will be, but i'm working on it and soon i will give you some shoots.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 05, 2013, 03:55:55 pm
¿Base Siege from Q3: Team Arena? :P

Nope ! :P :D

Today i have played Q3A in q3dm6 map and it's been an inspiration.
No idea of what kind of map will be, but i'm working on it and soon i will give you some shoots.

;)
I thought you were building a CTF map, and that area reminded me of that map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 06, 2013, 02:58:00 am
I'm Here again :P

I have downloaded from Soc web site the desert skybox for my next map.
You can find it here: http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials/skybox/desert.htm
In the "readme" file it was no mention to GPLv2 or other thing about copyright.

Please, tell me if i can use this skybox in this mappack. Of course i have to give credits to Soc and link his web site.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 06, 2013, 05:06:43 am
In the "readme" file it was no mention to GPLv2 or other thing about copyright.



Doesn't make it public domain though

Also, most "free" skyboxes out in the wild are created from using Terragen, which has non-commercial usage rights. I'd avoid committing any terragen skybox


Blender can render skyboxes, but always has seam issues.  Unfortunately it's the only skyboxes i'll accept (other than strange gimp xcf picture jobs)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 06, 2013, 05:45:28 am
What about the Blender + GIMP combination?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 06, 2013, 12:19:44 pm
In the "readme" file it was no mention to GPLv2 or other thing about copyright.



Doesn't make it public domain though

Also, most "free" skyboxes out in the wild are created from using Terragen, which has non-commercial usage rights. I'd avoid committing any terragen skybox


Blender can render skyboxes, but always has seam issues.  Unfortunately it's the only skyboxes i'll accept (other than strange gimp xcf picture jobs)

On LvL i have found a Skybox collection: http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2023
In this collection there is a Desert Skybox that i can use in this map, in the readme it says:
===========================================
Created by 'amethyst7' aka Chris Matz.
WEB site: http://amethyst7.gotdoofed.com (FAKE website ??)

You may use and distribute this sky box under the terms of the
GNU General Public License version 2.
===========================================

Theorically this skybox can be used for free.
Tell me or i have to make even a personal skybox :P :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 06, 2013, 12:25:23 pm
Does it have a source file? Such as .psd or .xcf or the like.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 06, 2013, 12:45:34 pm
Does it have a source file? Such as .psd or .xcf or the like.

I'm not sure what do you mean, but here is the screenshot of the folder content:
(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/skybox10.jpg)

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gamyr on January 06, 2013, 11:22:45 pm
Does it have a source file? Such as .psd or .xcf or the like.

I'm not sure what do you mean, but here is the screenshot of the folder content:
(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/skybox10.jpg)

;)

What @Neon_Knight means is what are the extensions of the file, the part after the ".", for example "filename.exe" you want the .exe part of the name. That screenshot doesn't help because nobody can see the extension. Is there a file with the extension .psd or .xcf? For instance I see a file named  "ame_desert.shader", the extension of that file is .shader. What are the extensions of the other files? You may have to click on each one to view the whole name.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 06, 2013, 11:31:33 pm
Well, judging by the small text in their icons associated to photoshop, i'd say it's...... TGA


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 07, 2013, 12:33:57 am
Maybe one should take a look to the tga images and try to guess if they are based upon multi-layer images (then a source would be required) or not (in this case, no additional source would be required, right?)...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gamyr on January 07, 2013, 01:24:17 am
Well, judging by the small text in their icons associated to photoshop, i'd say it's...... TGA

I should have figured that out.  :D I thought the tga icon labels were generic somehow. Oops.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 07, 2013, 10:38:33 am
In the folder there are 6 TGA images for the skybox, the .shader file and the "readme".

What source is needed ? If there isn't a source this skybox can not be used ?

...... :RIP:..... ;D ;D



Title: Let me try to RECAP a moment...
Post by: Gig on January 07, 2013, 12:00:28 pm
Starting from the post of Neon_Knight (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45745#msg45745) that mentions the release under GPL of some Simon O'Callaghan textures (for Nexuiz)
I downloaded the file Neon posted:
http://depositfiles.com/files/nti9zh9av (!egyptsoc-nexuiz.zip, 32,2 MB)
Inside it, I can find a "COPYING" file (GPLv2) and "permission.txt" file. It looks like we can use it, providing that we mention "Simon O'Callaghan" as author and link to his site "http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials.htm" in the documentation.
For the problem of its sources... it seems to contain .TGA files only. I have looked at some them, randomly... for me (that I'm not an expert) it's hard to tell "the artist created this image directly by painting it with a bitmap program (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk2sPl_Z7ZU)" or "the artist created it by using some multi-layer file format before, then exported to this single-layer one". So, I cannot say if such textures are acceptable for OA or not (if it would depend from me, I could accept them... but it does not depend from me).
I suppose Fromhell should look at the package and then give a definitive answer about this.

Another problem of using such textures may be that many other games may already use them, as Fromhell said (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45746#msg45746). I don't know.

-----------------------

For the Skybox compilation Akom found (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45772#msg45772) here:
http://lvlworld.com/review.php?id=2023 (q3sky.zip, 476 MB), it contains a q3skyinf.zip-->license.txt that says which ones are those with GPL license.
The one Akom is interested to is Ame_Desert, and seems to be licensed under what is reported in Akom's post (GPLv2 with mentioning that guy and site). Taking a look to them, I cannot say if they are "real photos" (and one-layered) taken with a camera that maybe got some "dithering" effect (due to quality reduction?), or are computer-generated panoramas (in that case, there may exist a "source" intended as a file of some virtual-landscape software -I don't know them at all!-).
I would think they could be okay (although its readme says it's GPLv2 but the COPYING file seems missing). Again, I prefer to know Fromhell's opinion.

-----------------------

About the textures from Evil Lair (that Akom used in the current version of oa_akomdm2 map), Neon_Knight in this post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45745#msg45745) linked a package of Evil Lair textures that have been released under GPLv2 for Nexuiz (while those packages downloaded from Evil Lair offical web site are not)
http://dfiles.eu/files/ezg1k1ouu (!evillair-nexuiz.zip, 66 MB)
It contains COPYING (GPLv2) file.
I suppose files contained there should be theoretically allowed in OA: Akom should check they are all exactly the same versions he used.
Again, there are the problems of missing "sources" (again, I don't know how to tell which of them really need "sources"... and I don't know if there are some somewhere in Nexuiz SVN for those textures) and the fact they are used in at least another game. Again, I suppose that Fromhell should take a clear decision about them.

-----------------------
PS: To who is searching for new textures compatible with OpenArena: already tried following the links here?
http://freegamedev.net/wiki/Free_3D_and_2D_art_and_audio_resources
Remembering that only PD (Public Domain) and GPLv2 stuff is ok for OA.

-----------------------
NOTE:
To do not force you to download the whole 476 MB Skybox compilation package, to check out the skybox that interests Akom at the moment, I would have attached to this post the ame_desert.zip file alone (2,39 MB)... but for some reason, the forum gives me an error uploading it, even if the file is less than the 3082 KB theoretically allowed by the forum... I don't know what to think!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 07, 2013, 12:24:08 pm
Gig is absolutely right, sometimes no sources are needed to do a texture or a effect.
Personally i have tested it with jump pad effect i have made myself, start from nothing to a TGA, in that case what i have to take as a source of this file ? The file itself is the source.

I'm waiting FromHell response about this issue, and the other posted by Gig.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 07, 2013, 01:32:07 pm
While waiting fpr the response, i will show my rough draft of the flag room.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 07, 2013, 01:53:44 pm
While waiting fpr the response, i will show my rough draft of the flag room.

Pretty good job !!  ;D ;D

What editor are you using ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on January 07, 2013, 02:06:17 pm
While waiting fpr the response, i will show my rough draft of the flag room.
Reminds me a bit the map 'mkbase' ,not bad. :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 07, 2013, 02:27:44 pm
While waiting fpr the response, i will show my rough draft of the flag room.
Reminds me a bit the map 'mkbase' ,not bad. :)

Adriano, will you build a map for this mappack ?  :P ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 07, 2013, 03:20:06 pm
Reminds me a bit the map 'mkbase' ,not bad. :)

Jep.
It will be the 4th part of my proto series, starting with a pure space map (god_space) and then every step will lead to a much closer map (god_speed, god_evil (to be released when its done... ;D ) and god_base ofc).

@Akom: i use the GtkRadiant 1.5.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on January 07, 2013, 03:50:49 pm
Adriano, will you build a map for this mappack ?  :P ;D
Thanks, but don't count with me right now(time reasons)... maybe it will be last-minute before easter,if not, then for the future as singular map... you'll hear from me. ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 07, 2013, 04:26:56 pm

@Peter Silie: Don't know why, but i figured it's blender or something else  :P :D

@Adriano: I hope you will find a little time to make a map for this package, you are a good mapper :D ....maybe a CTF map ? :P :P :P

Anyway, the map i'm doing was named "Egyptian Trouble" and a brush at time i'm doing it :P but the question is: in this map i will put a custom music compiled time ago from my friend and i do not have nothing about this file about any copyright stuff, can i use it ? He gives me this music for my old project but i never used it.
Tell me.

;)

P.S.: sorry for my terrible English, but i'm a alcoholic Italian :P :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 08, 2013, 12:44:52 am
If you don't have any indication about the copyright status of something, you have to consider it as copyrighted. The fact he gave it to you for another project does not automatically mean that you have the right to use it in different projects or to re-license it. You should try to contact him and ask him if he wants to release the work under PD or under GPLv2.

And I can guess that, unless that music was recorded all at once (with real people playing real instruments at the same time), they should exist some "sources", that should be included (and should be under PD or GPL, too... e.g. if it includes a "light saber" sound sampled from StarWars stuff, it cannot be used).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 08, 2013, 10:56:39 am
If you don't have any indication about the copyright status of something, you have to consider it as copyrighted. The fact he gave it to you for another project does not automatically mean that you have the right to use it in other projects or to re-license it. You should try to contact him and ask him if he wants to release the work under PD or under GPLv2.

And I can guess that, unless that music was recorded all at once (with real people playing real instruments at the same time), they should exist some "sources", that should be included (and should be under PD or GPL, too... e.g. if it includes a "light saber" sound sampled from StarWars stuff, it cannot be used).

Men, this GPL stuff it's killing me.....XD.....
Ok, nevermind :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 08, 2013, 11:18:23 am
We definitely need a page about GPL in the wiki. -.-


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 09, 2013, 10:25:20 am
I'm hoping to have my maps for this pack being released for testing in February 1st. There's a lot of things I'm doing, and I've been slowing down a bit in this regard.

EDIT: Akom, Peter, Moixie, read your personal messages.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 10, 2013, 02:33:48 am
Hey Akom, did you check that all the textures/scripts from Evil Lair you used are exactly the same files that are in the GPL'd package Neon_Knight posted?

@Fromhell... we are waiting for your opinions about the stuff in those three packages (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45783#msg45783)... if that can be used in OA or not.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 10, 2013, 02:38:43 am
We definitely need a page about GPL in the wiki. -.-

I agree.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 10, 2013, 11:20:32 am
Hey Akom, did you check that all the textures/scripts from Evil Lair you used are exactly the same files that are in the GPL'd package Neon_Knight posted?

The textures are ok, but a couple of scripts are wrong........ :( .....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 10, 2013, 11:48:48 am
Hey Akom, did you check that all the textures/scripts from Evil Lair you used are exactly the same files that are in the GPL'd package Neon_Knight posted?
The textures are ok, but a couple of scripts are wrong........ :( .....
If needed, you may ask Udi if he can help you reproducing the same effect of those scripts, without infringing their copyright.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 11, 2013, 03:31:41 pm
Hi to all  ;D

I have made my own textures (with effects) for powerup_spawn/jump/weapon_spawn.

Here is the screenshot:
(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/shot0043.jpg)

I will modify the oa_akomdm2 soon and give it to you to test it......

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 12, 2013, 06:46:45 am
Hi to all  ;D

I have made my own textures (with effects) for powerup_spawn/jump/weapon_spawn.

Here is the screenshot:
(http://i10.servimg.com/u/f10/13/33/70/40/shot0043.jpg)

I will modify the oa_akomdm2 soon and give it to you to test it......

;)
Looks pretty cool. One question, though: are they animated or just static decals?

Adriano, will you build a map for this mappack ?  :P ;D
Thanks, but don't count with me right now(time reasons)... maybe it will be last-minute before easter,if not, then for the future as singular map... you'll hear from me. ;)
Maybe as tester? We need people who can test our maps as well.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 12, 2013, 06:50:28 am
The circle rotate and the bumper (jumper) blink as a normal jumper.

Soon i give you (all) the fixed versione of the map......stay tuned.... :P

P.S.: No one have tested the maps yet ?? We need to be ready for easter.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 12, 2013, 10:16:08 am
Sorry for the double post :P

There is the updated version totally GPLv2 textures free !! :D

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/jur19slylgpa4kffchjh

This time it is all right ? Tell me.
;)

EDIT: Meanwhile i'm continuing with the third map :P

 ;D ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: PsYthe on January 13, 2013, 05:32:20 am
Edit: Wrong thread.

Meanwhile, in a another thread.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: PsYthe on January 13, 2013, 05:38:30 am
I guess I can spice things up a bit in the mapping front, as well as get motivation to some people. :P

Restrictions: (Everything else is allowed)
  • GPLv2 compliance. You know, sources and license file. Especially for third-party assets.
    • Assets should be GPLv2-compliant. This is, Public Domain stuff and already GPL/GPLv2 stuff is allowed. Stuff made from scratch is allowed as well, as long as you provide the sources. Everything else (CC, copyrighted stuff -!-) is disallowed.
  • Reasonable filesize.
  • The map should work 100% into a vanilla OA folder. This means: no other requirements such as a compatibility texture package.
The release date is going to be in Easter 2013. First beta will take place February 15th.

Choose the style you want, the layout you want, etc. If there's enough people, we can start the work.

Who's interested?

EDIT: List of participants: (Most recent alphas/betas to be tested are linked)
  • Akom74 (The Crypt -FFA- (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45676#msg45676); Danger Arena -FFA- (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45716#msg45716))
  • Peter Silie (Fight -CTF-)
  • Neon_Knight (High Voltage -FFA-; Bioxide -CTF-; Underground Temple -FFA-)
  • Moixie (Mx1mn2 -FFA-; Mx1Ctf8 -CTF-)
EDIT 2: Resources
  • Mapping resources and tutorials (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials) (OA wiki)
  • Graphics resources and tutorials (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Graphics_resources_%26_tutorials) (OA wiki)
  • Evillair's GPL texture packages from Nexuiz (http://depositfiles.com/files/ezg1k1ouu)
  • SimonOC's GPL texture package Egyptsoc also from Nexuiz (http://depositfiles.com/files/nti9zh9av)

I'm in, 50% sure of that. It depends entirely on how busy I am with other projects.

Would it to taboo for me to discuss a flowchart of who does what in this project?

Not to be so full of myself, but I'm damn amazing at the editor, and I've found that the end result can be great if I have somebody alongside me to give me tips like "This should be adjusted, this shouldn't be here, you definitely shouldn't have put that armor there, etc. The general layout is what I do, but I require lots of feedback to "perfect" the map.

Also, is it safe to assume we're doing CTF? I want to challenge myself by doing a non-mirrored CTF map. I hope I can help out. It's been a looong time since I've done any work that hasn't been solo. It's far more effective to bounce ideas off each other.

Let me know any details; the more you bug me, the more likely I am to participate. That's party due to memory loss, heh.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 13, 2013, 06:05:25 am
Welcome aboard PsYthe  ;D ;D

Your idea of non-mirrored CTF map remind me some Unreal Tournament CTF maps. Great idea !

Warning only at the GPLv2 rules with copyrighted material.
For other things wait for Neon_Knight or FromHell. For tester i suggest Gig, as more knower of the GPLv2 stuff and he is very precise.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 13, 2013, 07:52:10 am
The flowchart is simple: we do what we know how to do. :P
Also, for testers it seems that we have to rely on each other mapper, unless I can find someone else to do the testing stuff. :/
We're doing both CTF and FFA, mapper decides which gametypes they choose to support. (Though I'd want CTF maps to also have support for 1FCTF, Harvester, Overload, eCTF, CTF, Elimination and DD as well. Shouldn't be much work in this regard.)

And your questions don't bother a single bit. ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on January 13, 2013, 10:33:18 am
@Adriano: I hope you will find a little time to make a map for this package, you are a good mapper :D ....maybe a CTF map ? :P :P :P
I think moreover about FFA. And thx about compliment but I think I did/ I'm doing still some bad mistakes xD and I need to learn much map-techniques.


About the new map...
This time it is all right ? Tell me.
;)

1.)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/8126/shot0120l.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/shot0120l.jpg/)
I think you wanted to add there (and the same on other side) the texture which is on the left of it ?

2.)
Basically the map is ok, but on top of the map it seems a bit too open (too much open space) +

3.)
combined with 2 lightning guns up there, it will be a mess there xD
(what about plasma?)
-> So maybe make some seperation (Idk how, you've to invent something) on the upper platform or shrink it a bit





Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 13, 2013, 01:13:42 pm
@Adriano: I hope you will find a little time to make a map for this package, you are a good mapper :D ....maybe a CTF map ? :P :P :P
I think moreover about FFA. And thx about compliment but I think I did/ I'm doing still some bad mistakes xD and I need to learn much map-techniques.

LOL !!  :D  you never finish to learn about mapping, i find every time something new :P :P


About the new map...
This time it is all right ? Tell me.
;)

Quote from: adriano
1.)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/8126/shot0120l.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/shot0120l.jpg/)
I think you wanted to add there (and the same on other side) the texture which is on the left of it ?

Yes, it's a mistake but i think it's a marginal error, maybe i recompile the map after the release, or in case of big mistake found from players.

Quote from: adriano
2.)
Basically the map is ok, but on top of the map it seems a bit too open (too much open space) +

Err, it's too high, but no much. When you jump from the bumper sometimes you can use rocket to jump very high, but in a future release the sky will be shorted.

Quote from: adriano
3.)
combined with 2 lightning guns up there, it will be a mess there xD
(what about plasma?)
-> So maybe make some seperation (Idk how, you've to invent something) on the upper platform or shrink it a bit

No no, it have to be a massacre !!!! It's a Danger Arena !! :D :P :P



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on January 13, 2013, 02:10:15 pm
Quote from: adriano
2.)
Basically the map is ok, but on top of the map it seems a bit too open (too much open space) +
Err, it's too high, but no much. When you jump from the bumper sometimes you can use rocket to jump very high, but in a future release the sky will be shorted.
I knew I should rewrite that piece of text (I wrote not correctly) xD... I meant that the upper platform seems a little bit too large, because there are not much 'obstacles' there to hide (e.g.).
But I just saw the map again and I think it is also OK if you leave it like that (without changes). =D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 14, 2013, 04:24:13 am
For tester i suggest Gig, as more knower of the GPLv2 stuff and he is very precise.
Well, I'm not extremely good with GPLv2 terms.... I try to follw what I understod. The only one file from me you can find in OA 0.8.8 is a demo (where a "source" format does not exist. And that used OA-only suff.).

About testing, that you... but at the moment I have very little time. And anyway, I can help finding bugs in the maps and maybe suggesting some structural changes... but best item placement for keeping the map balanced should be asked to someone else (I'm not good with that).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 14, 2013, 11:22:23 am
For tester i suggest Gig, as more knower of the GPLv2 stuff and he is very precise.
Well, I'm not extremely good with GPLv2 terms.... I try to follw what I understod. The only one file from me you can find in OA 0.8.8 is a demo (where a "source" format does not exist. And that used OA-only suff.).

About testing, that you... but at the moment I have very little time. And anyway, I can help finding bugs in the maps and maybe suggesting some structural changes... but best item placement for keeping the map balanced should be asked to someone else (I'm not good with that).

Ah, sorry..... i know, time never is too much :P

P.S.: I have in mind to build a space map called "Gig's Nightmare" inspired to Xan level in Unreal Tournament, with moving stars and low gravity. I hope you like it !! :D :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 14, 2013, 12:27:07 pm
Akom, if you wanna make a map for me, you could take that big map I tried to do some time ago (do you remember TEST1?) as an inspiration, and try to recreate something similar to it, but using a "clearer" design technique than mine.

In fact, it was my first real Q3 map (and I planned to later do an OA version). Knowing it may have been probably the only one, I put almost everything it went into my mind into it. I was using the map to learn using the editor and to do a large, varied map. So, mapping techniques were not good.
When I was quite happy with the work, I encountered the out of level items (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4310.0) error in console while in-game (you can play, but you see this in console, and that's not nice).
I can guess I ended up having too many of something (brushes? areas? items?).
And I still had to add almost all spawnpoints and some lights.
I really have no time to try to redo it from scratch. So, sadly, I abandoned the work.

If someone else is interested, I may release that map under GPLv2, too. Maybe someone of you may want to re-use some of the ideas I put into it. I think some of those ideas are nice... but I placed too many ideas with one map, and I had very poor mapping skills! Some ideas may be re-used in some map redone from scratch.
You can take a look to the editor in the attched screenshot. I'm sorry I do not have the time to post proper in-game screenshots right now.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 14, 2013, 12:44:05 pm
What about an online meeting to test the beta maps with all participants of this thread?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 14, 2013, 01:11:52 pm
@Gig: Sadly i have to tell you that your old map is to redo from scratch. Sorry....
By the way, i'm doing the Space-Map i tell you above. It's ok for you if i named it "Gig's Nightmare" ? Remember your matches with Xan ? :P :D

@Peter Silie: Time is our big problem...... i'm off....

@Adriano: Sorry, i forgot to answer you. Don't worry, i will fix the texture bug for the final release.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 14, 2013, 01:15:22 pm
Akom, if you wanna make a map for me, you could take that big map I tried to do some time ago (do you remember TEST1?) as an inspiration, and try to recreate something similar to it, but using a "clearer" design technique than mine.

In fact, it was my first real Q3 map (and I planned to later do an OA version). Knowing it may have been probably the only one, I put almost everything it went into my mind into it. I was using the map to learn using the editor and to do a large, varied map. So, mapping techniques were not good.
When I was quite happy with the work, I encountered the out of level items (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4310.0) error in console while in-game (you can play, but you see this in console, and that's not nice).
I can guess I ended up having too many of something (brushes? areas? items?).
And I still had to add almost all spawnpoints and some lights.
I really have no time to try to redo it from scratch. So, sadly, I abandoned the work.

If someone else is interested, I may release that map under GPLv2, too. Maybe someone of you may want to re-use some of the ideas I put into it. I think some of those ideas are nice... but I placed too many ideas with one map, and I had very poor mapping skills! Some ideas may be re-used in some map redone from scratch.
You can take a look to the editor in the attched screenshot. I'm sorry I do not have the time to post proper in-game screenshots right now.

Wow, i love big maps!
Nobody here seems to like to play with big maps.
My favourites maps are: oa_bases3, oa_bases7, oa_ctf4ish, hydronex, oa_spirit3 and dm4ish, is someone working on something similar?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 14, 2013, 03:14:56 pm
There are 2 new version of oa_ctf4ish (sos_ctf and god_ctf - just search forum).
there should also be an even bigger version of bases7, just search for god_athmosfear.

ps: congrats Gig! 2000 posts!!! ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 14, 2013, 03:46:11 pm
There are 2 new version of oa_ctf4ish (sos_ctf and god_ctf - just search forum).
there should also be an even bigger version of bases7, just search for god_athmosfear.

ps: congrats Gig! 2000 posts!!! ;D

Wow, great, i hope released under GPL.
Thanks!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 15, 2013, 03:20:16 pm
Meanwhile, my third map is groving up !  ;D ;D

The skybox is temporary, i'll made one myself with my shader/effect to avoid GPL infringement.  :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 15, 2013, 03:30:04 pm
Meanwhile, my third map is groving up !  ;D ;D



The skybox is temporary, i'll made one myself with my shader/effect to avoid GPL infringement.  :P

;)

Seems impressive.
I hope to test it soon.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 15, 2013, 03:48:27 pm
Meanwhile, my third map is groving up !  ;D ;D



The skybox is temporary, i'll made one myself with my shader/effect to avoid GPL infringement.  :P

;)

Seems impressive.
I hope to test it soon.

It's just a medium map i'll give you (all) a version as soon as possible..... :P

@G One: Have you tried my other two maps for this mappack ? It's all right ? Tell me. You will find the link in the first post.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: G One on January 15, 2013, 04:07:31 pm
I like Danger Arena, seems a good quality map, but i'm not a big fan of Free For All mode.
I play always online with and i love CTF mode!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 16, 2013, 07:51:01 am
These two days I was offline.

So far, I've been working on a lot of stuff. I've done a bit of work in Bioxide (my CTF map), started a third map (Underground Temple) and also worked on Voltage (my other FFA map). Screenshots soon.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 17, 2013, 10:28:16 am
For convenience's sake, I have uploaded the betas from the maps to my FTP space. Also uploaded there the two GPL'd pack of textures. Thanks to onykage for the FTP space.
Links in the first post are updated.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 17, 2013, 10:44:21 am
WIKI! (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 17, 2013, 10:52:26 am
WIKI! (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack)

 ;D ;D Good Job !  ;D ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 17, 2013, 12:31:10 pm
Well done!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 19, 2013, 12:40:44 pm
Have you tried my other two maps for this mappack ? It's all right ? Tell me.
I've played briefly your two maps on my cellphone.
Akomdm1: I really like the upper part of the map - it's open and does not have narrow corridors and sharp corners, plays really well on mobile. Also it's relatively large. However the lower part of the map makes you disoriented - you jump there and you don't know where to run to make it to the upper part, walls are all the same, and corridors are all the same, however the fog effect is cool.
Akomdm2: God bless you for making those safety borders around map edges, I wish all maps space had them, and they are especially welcome for clumsy touchscreen controls. The part that I did not like is the texture choice - the map is too dark, and bots blend with the walls. Illuminate it more please, and make that hole in the center of the map bigger, and maybe different color, it takes few tries to fall there.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 19, 2013, 01:33:36 pm
@pelya: Thanks for your comments :D . I will take care of the maps before of the release date.

Update !!

Here is the Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/xdwrvd6un5s5cspegute

I know there is a couple of issues, but i want to know from you (all) if it's all ok with GPL's stuff or something else.  :P ;D

...can you find the two easter eggs in this map ? It's easy....

Enjoy !
 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 19, 2013, 05:00:35 pm
Uploaded for testing purposes to the oacmp temp folder. Also updated the wiki article and the first post.
Hopefully, tomorrow at night I'll upload a playable version of one of my maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 19, 2013, 08:53:12 pm
Tried akomdm3 map, and it's awesome on mobile, much better to play than most of other OA free-for-all maps. It's open and medium-sized, but gives impression of a big map. Also I like color gamma, bots were adequately illuminated and easy to shoot. I think it's the best one of your maps.
However there are some issues:
1. The ultimate camping spot near the rocket launcher:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_01-07-18_zps43caa9be.png)

This part of the map is accessible with only a jump pad, and has only one weapon - that rocket launcher. Grab it, and blow up everyone trying to jump there (easy target in a narrow corridor), also blow up everyone who respawns near you  - their chainguns are no match for a rocket, and they cannot get any other weapon without jumping down.
This can be fixed by fixing this part:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-28-48_zps6b2676f2.png)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-30-08_zps08ff3295.png)

I could not jump to that platform, even with the help of the jump pad below. Please make this platform reachable.

2. When you jump or respawn here, there are absolutely no weapons around, you need to run through the whole level to grab lightning gun or railgun (you'll be lucky if you'll make it this far), and you cannot grab the rocket, because there will be someone camping there, see issue #1.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_01-25-26_zps82383015.png)

This can be fixed by adding some weak weapon, like shotgun, to that niche where I'm shooting. Or maybe grenade launcher (but as we know, ancient Egyptians considered shotguns and grenade launchers a lowly weapons, they've used lightning guns and railguns, and called them Scythe of Horus and Eye of Ra  ;D )

3. This teleport here
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-40-38_zps8dfb1ff1.png)
will bring me here
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-40-24_zpsa9a71e7d.png)
seems rather pointless to me - I can just jump there. Actually, it will bring you to the other spawn point with armor, but since level is symmetrical, it doesn't really matter.
I would rather make them bring me here, to the other part of level:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-42-36_zps4bd31939.png)
but you then will need to replace the teleporter and medkit with some less powerful upgrades. Also, the teleporter isn't much useful there, because the level is not very big.

And, your easter eggs:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_01-00-14_zpsb007a844.png)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/2013-01-20_00-31-08_zps5cea3924.png)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on January 20, 2013, 06:07:49 am
I love that 3.DM-map of Akom, too. Really nice. I can imagine it on AS Clanarena-server lol.

Ok now the things that maybe could be changed (aka "the bad things" xD) or are just things to bring new ideas:
◘ I don't know why I can't see this light (I hope it is just my problem):
http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3141/3kaubuet_jpg.htm

◘ There are just 4 places to pick-up a weapon: I would add at least a plasma (btw. 2 plasma, one on each side)here for example:
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3141/sz2fvilz_jpg.htm
And maybe another weapon down in the map somewehere.

◘ Replace teleporter with invisibility

◘ There are 2 long curves in a row, so it is a long way when you want to stay up. I would add/change there something from this structure. E.g. the first thing that came in my mind:
A hole in that big block (at curve) that brings you also in the middle of the map (at quad).
http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3141/izkjmk6i_jpg.htm
http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3141/o6z5iu2j_jpg.htm

Just to bring you some ideas to make the map even better. =)
 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 20, 2013, 09:39:06 am

@pelya: I have follow your suggestions and some stuff seems really better :D
Now it's a massacre !!!  ;D ;D

@Adriano: Thanks you too for your comments, i have modified the map with your suggestions too, now BOTs navigate the map better than before.

......soon will be here the download link for the new version.....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 20, 2013, 10:14:52 am
New Version ! Enjoy it !  ;D
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/xdwrvd6un5s5cspegute

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 20, 2013, 12:56:21 pm
Updated!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 20, 2013, 02:17:14 pm
Updated!

@Neon_Knight: Good job, but have you try this one ? What do you think ?

I know there is a couple of issues agani, but i think there is time to fix it :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 21, 2013, 01:56:57 am
Akom, sorry for not having had time to try the other maps of your yet...
But just for curiosity: are you still using q3radiant or did you manage to use NetRadiant or GTKRadiant for these OA maps? If q3radiant, it may be good some kind of tutorial to setup q3radiant to work with OA stuff instead of Q3A stuff. Example: one cannot use the md3 models he finds with q3radiant (e.g. the skeleton, the gargoyle...) if he wants to do GPL maps (like for this package), because, if I'm not in error, they are not GPL'd.

@others:
What about asking JoeSox if he wants to include his Operation Metro map in this package?
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4510.0
It looks like something different than usual OA maps, and is stated as GPL. Although I don't know about its playability, I haven't really tested it.
Maybe it may be too heavy (in file size and CPU load?), and we should double check everything in it is really GPL'd?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 21, 2013, 02:45:26 am
Isn't that an experimental tribute map?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 21, 2013, 03:22:06 am
Uhm... you're probably right. It looks like BF3 stands for BattleField 3 game, and so the map is a 'tribute' to one of the maps of that game... I don't know how much similar, but probably quite similar, or even very similar.
http://bf3blog.com/operation-metro/

I don't know if this Cummunity pack is meant to also allow some (and which) kinds of "tribute maps" or not. I suppose this should be stated in the mappack's rules.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 21, 2013, 04:33:26 am
Tributes can go, but I still prefer maps made specifically for this pack over than packaging of previously done maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 21, 2013, 11:00:24 am
Akom, sorry for not having had time to try the other maps of your yet...
But just for curiosity: are you still using q3radiant or did you manage to use NetRadiant or GTKRadiant for these OA maps? If q3radiant, it may be good some kind of tutorial to setup q3radiant to work with OA stuff instead of Q3A stuff. Example: one cannot use the md3 models he finds with q3radiant (e.g. the skeleton, the gargoyle...) if he wants to do GPL maps (like for this package), because, if I'm not in error, they are not GPL'd.

Dear Gig, don't worry about testing the maps, i know that the real life take a lot of your time, if you test it i'm happy, otherwise amen brother. Muahahaha :P :P

I'm still using Q3Radiant 202 and OA textures in the normal baseq3 folder  ;D ;D
It work very fine  :P . To test the maps i'm using a blank istallation of OA 0.8.8

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 21, 2013, 11:53:32 am
I'm still using Q3Radiant 202 and OA textures in the normal baseq3 folder  ;D ;D
But how are you doing for md3 objects, then? Are you not using them at all?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 21, 2013, 12:22:37 pm
I'm still using Q3Radiant 202 and OA textures in the normal baseq3 folder  ;D ;D
But how are you doing for md3 objects, then? Are you not using them at all?

Of course my friend, if a need a model i do it myself with polygons :P :P
See my teleporter used in the Inferno map (Akom9) and last map for OA mappack (Egyptian Trouble).

;)

P.S.: @Adriano: sorry, i forgot to answer you about the missing texture. Maybe it's your problem with textures conflict, i don't know, other guys don't have this issue and in the blank OA istallation the map work fine without this problem.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 21, 2013, 12:56:50 pm
Yep, while testing the maps, be sure to test them in a clean OA folder. Remember that the maps of this pack should work on a clean OA 0.8.8 folder.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 21, 2013, 01:04:59 pm
To test the maps i'm using a blank istallation of OA 0.8.8

Of course I do....  :P .....  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 21, 2013, 01:15:16 pm
I've tested oa_akomdm3, and the gameplay now is perfect, there are no camp spots or empty space without any weapons.
I would like to put it to my dedicated server, when you'll release a final version (with license info and sources).

Maybe plasmagun is a bit too powerful, this may be fixed by moving plasmagun ammo to the different place at the map, so players won't spam it. For example, here, in the alcove:

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-01-21-20-57-27.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-01-21-20-57-27.png.html)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 21, 2013, 01:28:37 pm
Starting the 4 map !
(GIG's Nightmare !)

i'm doing it listening this http://youtu.be/4M0MOfRxI7g  ;D ;D ;D

@pelya: Ok, plasmagun will be moved :P

Other comment from the others ?  ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 21, 2013, 02:04:00 pm
I have another request about oa_akomdm3. The teleports in the lower part of level bring you to the upper platform near the rocket launcher. The same can be achieved with a jump pads, and I would prefer them over the teleports, because after teleporting you're kind of disoriented, but with jump pad you know your position in the level. Also, two teleports near each other in the same part of the level do not look that good.
So, I would propose this:

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-01-21-21-37-26-1_zps47e44104.png)

(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-01-21-20-58-30-1_zpsc3a7e712.png)

Sorry for too many requests, the level is already nice, and it's a minor annoyance, not anything big.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 21, 2013, 04:34:23 pm
.
No problem pelya, here is a screenshot of the modified version:

And here is the download link for the map:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/xdwrvd6un5s5cspegute

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 21, 2013, 05:02:06 pm
It is now the best map ever, thank you!


Title: What about g_autonextmap and the map pack?
Post by: Gig on January 22, 2013, 03:00:18 am
I was thinking about some "semi-tech" details of the map pack.
I suppose it should be stated in its readme that it's supposed to work with OA 0.8.8. AFAIK, this does not mean that it will surely stop working with OA 0.9/OA3.

... I was thinking about the G_autonextmap (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/G_autonextmap) feature (note: you may have to read how the feature works, following that link, to better understand what follows). It works with OA 0.8.8 stock maps only (if you put more maps into your OA, you have to create custom mappools to use them with autonextmap.

If we want people to quickly take advantage of the maps from this map_pack with g_autonextmap enabled, we may include specific map_pools with the package.
But placing map pools files including both "stock" OA 0.8.8 and mappack maps (overriding the default files) may mean to tie the pack too firmly to a specific OA version?
Or may we include mappack maps only and place those files outside the pk3, with a fake extension (maps_dm.cfg.xxx), telling people to add and remove the extension each time they want to use mappack maps instead of stock maps?
Or may we include the pools with a name different than the normal (e.g. cpack_maps_dm.cfg) and two .cfg files that the user would use with /exec cp_mappack.cfg and /exec cp_normal.cfg that would set the g_mappools variable to the mappack-only pools or back to default values?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 22, 2013, 03:10:11 am
Easiest way is just to  fix g_autonextmap, so it will parse all files from a specific directory, or all files with specifoc extension, and rename *.cfg to *.mappool.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 22, 2013, 01:32:26 pm
A short update regarding my map:
the name is now decided, it will be called "GoDs Base" (god_base) because the map will be some kind of tribute to mkbase and the last part of the GoD proto series (i guess i already talked about).
The basic layout of the blue side is nearly complete, i just need to polish the center area and the upper way to/from the base. Also some edges has to be made a little smoother.
If this work is done, i will duplicate the bases, activate some jumppads and release an early pre alpha.
So you can get a feeling about the sizes and the gameplay.

Unfortunately i am out of time for a 2nd map, but here is a screenshot from the close to go of GoDs Evil (god_evil).
I made some big mistakes in the basic layout of the map, so i have to do it again from scratch in the future.
But i will not be able to finish this in time... :(


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 22, 2013, 02:37:38 pm
Seems a good map, i'll give it a try when it's done.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on January 22, 2013, 03:49:23 pm
Here is a new screenshot from GoDs Bases, which shows the ways to the flagroom.
The edges i marked will be redone.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 23, 2013, 01:52:26 am
Neon_Knight:
I've tested the map watadry_beta3, link to which you've inadvertedly put in PM.
Once you've learned all the map shortcuts, you'll make gameplay frustrating to other players (also, bots are easily confused by this map).
There are two shortcuts to the enemy base, via underwater way and teleporter, and there are too many escape routes after you grab a flag - run to the jump pad, collect the health and armor from the upper gallery, then there are two routes to run away from the gallery without jumping down to the open space, and you can grab a plasmagun on the way back. Once you around the first corner, you're safe - there are too many sharp corners on the way back, so it's impossible to chase and snipe you down, you can also grab megahealth while running to your base, and run away even without shooting. But if you're killed and respawn on your base, there are no decent weapons around you, you need to run ahead, and it's not unusual for flag carrier to grab your plasmagun and rocket right when you need them most.
The best strategy for flag defenders is to stay between two bases, where the megahealth is, the flag carrier will have to run across that area.
Also I dislike that lifting platform that goes up and down at regular intervals, it's easy to get squished. Why not a plain jump pad?
I was playing on a phone, so my experience may be biased. I was able to jump to the teleporter only after 10-th try, and the underwater passage is also not that easy to use.
The texture choice is okay, and illumination is also okay, although there are not too many variations, just the same ambient light everywhere.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 23, 2013, 02:54:17 am
A quick post just to say I quickly tested oa_akomdm2 oa_akomdm3, without bots.
- The map looks nice. And I can notice some inspiration "here and there" from the great q3dm6, right?
- I haven't noticed "missing texture" problems like those experienced by Adriano (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45884#msg45884). But my test was very quick. I had the q3a2oa texture compatibility pack v5 installed.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 23, 2013, 04:49:36 am
Neon_Knight:
I've tested the map watadry_beta3, link to which you've inadvertedly put in PM.
Once you've learned all the map shortcuts, you'll make gameplay frustrating to other players (also, bots are easily confused by this map).
There are two shortcuts to the enemy base, via underwater way and teleporter, and there are too many escape routes after you grab a flag - run to the jump pad, collect the health and armor from the upper gallery, then there are two routes to run away from the gallery without jumping down to the open space, and you can grab a plasmagun on the way back. Once you around the first corner, you're safe - there are too many sharp corners on the way back, so it's impossible to chase and snipe you down, you can also grab megahealth while running to your base, and run away even without shooting. But if you're killed and respawn on your base, there are no decent weapons around you, you need to run ahead, and it's not unusual for flag carrier to grab your plasmagun and rocket right when you need them most.
The best strategy for flag defenders is to stay between two bases, where the megahealth is, the flag carrier will have to run across that area.
Also I dislike that lifting platform that goes up and down at regular intervals, it's easy to get squished. Why not a plain jump pad?
I was playing on a phone, so my experience may be biased. I was able to jump to the teleporter only after 10-th try, and the underwater passage is also not that easy to use.
The texture choice is okay, and illumination is also okay, although there are not too many variations, just the same ambient light everywhere.
Talk about watadry in it's thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4199.0). ;) Let's leave this thread for the Mappack maps only.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 23, 2013, 12:10:19 pm
A quick post just to say I quickly tested oa_akomdm2, without bots.
- The map looks nice. And I can notice some inspiration "here and there" from the great q3dm6, right?
- I haven't noticed "missing texture" problems like those experienced by Adriano (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45884#msg45884). But my test was very quick. I had the q3a2oa texture compatibility pack v5 installed.

I think you mean oa_akomdm3  ;D

Missing textures it's a mistery, i don't know why you can't see them. I have used a "vanilla" istallation (blank istallation) of OA0.8.8 without any texture pack or something else and it work.
May be a texture conflict ??

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 23, 2013, 12:15:03 pm
Yes. oa_akomdm3.
Anyway, I did not notice any texture problem. Was maybe the "you" in your sentence referring to Adriano intead of to me?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 23, 2013, 12:28:07 pm
Anyway, I did not notice any texture problem. Was maybe the "you" in your sentence referring to Adriano intead of to me?

Sorry, my bad :P :P  ;D

By the way, you haven't answer me yet about the title of oa_akomdm4 "GIG's Nightmare", can i use it ? :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 23, 2013, 12:54:55 pm
@Gig, remember to do the map testing with a vanilla folder! No texture packs or compatibility packs! Remember that this pack should work as it is in a vanilla folder!

@Akom, I've finally got the chance to test your beta maps. Here're my thoughts. I'll edit for the other maps as well:

oa_akomdm1 - I like the layout. It's symmetric, yet it flows pretty good. I like also the thematic of the finished map. Very immersive. I really wish I could have that amount of imagination. As a criticism, what about clipping the tombs? Sometimes they stop the speed when you come from the upper ledges.

oa_akomdm2 -

oa_akomdm3 -

i'm doing it listening this http://youtu.be/4M0MOfRxI7g  ;D ;D ;D
This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKP5gbuIM18) is my favourite version of the song. :P

BTW, is that your own version of Hyperblast? Awesome. ^^

Also uploading pics of Underground temple.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 23, 2013, 12:55:56 pm
Second batch of screenshots.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 23, 2013, 01:08:11 pm
Also uploading pics of Underground temple.

Oh no, this map is phone-unfriendly! Stuff that I dislike:
Holes in the floor
Catwalks
Spiral staircase instead of jump pad
Water (or maybe lava)

Well, it's better than maps converted from Quake 1, at least I did not see narrow corridors and sharp corners.

The map is okay if played on PC, my complaints are only about playing on mobile devices.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 23, 2013, 03:30:37 pm
@Gig, remember to do the map testing with a vanilla folder! No texture packs or compatibility packs! Remember that this pack should work as it is in a vanilla folder!
I know. I was trying to find out if that pack may have been the one giving problems to Adriano.

By the way, I suppose various people use it. Maybe also quick tests with it may be useful.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 23, 2013, 08:39:51 pm
Forgot to mention: updated oa_akomdm3 in the D/L links and updated the info on Peter's map.

Also uploading pics of Underground temple.

Oh no, this map is phone-unfriendly! Stuff that I dislike:
Holes in the floor
Catwalks
Spiral staircase instead of jump pad
Water (or maybe lava)

Well, it's better than maps converted from Quake 1, at least I did not see narrow corridors and sharp corners.

The map is okay if played on PC, my complaints are only about playing on mobile devices.
About the spiral staircase, there will be other connections via teleporters and jumppads.
About the water, it's just a small bit, there won't be any drowning. Think on the sewers in am_underworks2. Water is there so a powerful item could be placed there. I'm thinking RG or any powerup.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 24, 2013, 03:11:10 am
Then my onpy complaint is about the holes in the floor, they are to small to jump there from the first attempt, but easy to fall when you don't want that. Anyway, I should play the map to tell you exactly, maybe they are okay.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 25, 2013, 07:40:06 am
Okay, I've done three tests with oa_akomdm1, 2 and 3 with bots.
Very nice! I like them!  :)

In map 1 (crypt), there is a hole (too small to jump in it) under the quad, that you can use to shoot at who is taking the rocket launcher below (or vice versa, you can try shooting to a quad-camper above you). What about a grenade launcher (a proximity mines launcher would be too much, you say?) in the area (somewhere around that room, or in the near rooms), so one may have fun throwing grenades in the hole? Just an idea...

A thing I would suggest about the map 2 (the space one)... to have more action appening on the lower floor, I would make it possible to also reach the other platforms on the lower floor after you get the quad (and not the opposite)... PS: if possible, using accelerator pads, not teleports.

About the map 3 (the Egyptian one), I'm not sure if the current three bots (from skirmish menu) is the best number, or maybe one more of them may be good. What do you think about it? I don't know.

PS: I would like to see some of them available for Team Deathmatch mode. I don't know (or remember?) why, but only few OA default maps are listed for TDM (similar thing also in Q3, IIRC).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 27, 2013, 03:18:57 pm
oa_akomdm1 - I like the layout. It's symmetric, yet it flows pretty good. I like also the thematic of the finished map. Very immersive. I really wish I could have that amount of imagination. As a criticism, what about clipping the tombs? Sometimes they stop the speed when you come from the upper ledges.

I'll modify the mapWith your suggestion  :D

@Gig: Answer me about the Title of the oa_akomdm4 question, just say yes or no  :P

Quote from: Gig
In map 1 (crypt), there is a hole (too small to jump in it) under the quad, that you can use to shoot at who is taking the rocket launcher below (or vice versa, you can try shooting to a quad-camper above you). What about a grenade launcher (a proximity mines launcher would be too much, you say?) in the area (somewhere around that room, or in the near rooms), so one may have fun throwing grenades in the hole? Just an idea...

The grenade launcher is also present in the near room in the lower floor :P

Quote from: Gig
A thing I would suggest about the map 2 (the space one)... to have more action appening on the lower floor, I would make it possible to also reach the other platforms on the lower floor after you get the quad (and not the opposite)... PS: if possible, using accelerator pads, not teleports.

To do this i have to modify the gameplay, because i have made the lower floors to pick the rocket launcher and go in to the massacre on the upper floor !!  ;D ;D

Quote from: Gig
About the map 3 (the Egyptian one), I'm not sure if the current three bots (from skirmish menu) is the best number, or maybe one more of them may be good. What do you think about it? I don't know.

If you click on the other bots options you will have more bots, no problem  ;D



About oa_akomdm4  ;D
I think i need some Space Textures, anyone can help me to find GPL'd space textures ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 27, 2013, 03:50:58 pm
What kind of specific textures you need? I might be able to pull something.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 27, 2013, 04:23:02 pm
What kind of specific textures you need? I might be able to pull something.

Some textures that remind Hyperblast original map of UT, or just (free) Space Textures.

Question: in this map i will cut off the gravity from 800/600 (default) to 200, but i'm not sure it's a god idea for gameplay...... i try to give you an "alpha" version asap to let you try yourself....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on January 27, 2013, 04:25:30 pm
Photos made by Hubble telescope (http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/) are public domain (http://hubblesite.org/about_us/copyright.php), so you may use them in GPL-ed work. I don't know though if they are okay as textures.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 27, 2013, 11:27:41 pm
Photos made by Hubble telescope (http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/) are public domain (http://hubblesite.org/about_us/copyright.php), so you may use them in GPL-ed work. I don't know though if they are okay as textures.

Ehm, sorry but i mean textures for the Spaceship  :P :P ;D

For the "moving" space i'm good  ;)

What about my "low-gravity/playability" dubt ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 28, 2013, 02:07:11 am
About the name: a name as "Gig's nightmare" would fit if I would really find the finished map hard: I cannot tell before trying it. Anyway, I think something more explaining the map itself would be better.
Some tips: "Warp Space", "Galaxy Trek", "Space Transport", "2013 Space Odissey", "3013 Space Odissey", "Lightspeed Blood", "Lightspeed trip".

About gravity: maybe, when you will post the first beta, you may do two or three versions, with different gravity, so we may try what would better fit.
Unluckily, I fear in id tech 3 we cannot have zones with different gravities like Unreal Tournament did, so we are forced to do one for everything.

PS: someone already had your idea...
http://lvlworld.com/review/id:1952 Hyperblast-Q3 :P
From its readme file:
Quote
LOW GRAVITY: DM-Hyperblast in Unreal Tournament had normal gravity inside the ship and low gravity outside,
however, Vanilla Q3 does NOT support areas of low gravity so hyperblast-beta has none, and thus a jumpad
helps going from enviro to the area of the lighting gun. PAINKEEP ARENA however DOES support low gravity
areas, so hyperblast-pka has gravity= 300 outside the ship and normal gravity (800) inside (thanks
for the tip Anthon), so if you wanna play with low grav you would need to d/l painkeep arena mod from
http://www.groundplan.com/pka/ and play the pka version (http://www.flu.stonks.com/hyperblast-pka.zip).
Does anyone ever tried this PainKeep Arena Mod? I don't know it. I've found this download link...
http://download.cnet.com/Quake-III-Arena-Painkeep-Arena-3-0-Full-Install/3000-7441_4-10282443.html
(note: if you use the "direct download" instead of their download tool, it looks like quite slow.. probably in the other links I posted below could be some faster mirrors).
Anyway, one should also find the "-pka" version of the map, to have the double gravity. --> FOUND: http://www.reocities.com/area51/nova/2704/hyperblastq3.html
A such support may be very interesting for OpenArena, it would allow great space maps.

Searching for more infos about PainKeep Arena...
http://www.moddb.com/mods/painkeep-arena
http://www.quakewiki.net/archives/teamevolve/products/index.html
http://www.fileplanet.com/75142/0/0/0/1/section/Mod_Files
http://www.fileplanet.com/181316/180000/fileinfo/PainKeep-Arena-3.0n-Source-Code <<-- PKA Source Code! Unluckily, it's NOT GPL. So we cannot directly copy-paste from it into OA source code. But anyway it can suggest a way to create the dual gravity support. I know this has nothing to do with the Mappack project, but I think it's interesting.
http://web.archive.org/web/20081010181305/http://teamevolve.planetquake.gamespy.com/products/pka/pkahelp/ (PKA Help; move mouse on the left side if you don't see the menu)

PS: http://www.painkeep.net seems to be still the MOD's official homepage. But Avira Antivir says it finds "JS/Redirector.HI.69" while surfing it. Do you think it may be a false positive? Or may them have been hacked?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 28, 2013, 06:32:19 am
I thought Q3A already had a gravity value for worldspawn inherited from Q2?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 28, 2013, 07:01:23 am
I thought Q3A already had a gravity value for worldspawn inherited from Q2?
Uh? Isn't that the option used normally to have a map use a gravity different than the default (800)? AFAIK, that affects the entire map... Do you want to say that there is a way to use it to create different zones with different gravity ("classic" example: normal gravity inside a space ship or space base, low gravity outside), like Unreal Tournament had? That would be great, but I fear it's not in VanillaQ3...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 28, 2013, 11:10:50 am
I thought Q3A already had a gravity value for worldspawn inherited from Q2?
Uh? Isn't that the option used normally to have a map use a gravity different than the default (800)? AFAIK, that affects the entire map... Do you want to say that there is a way to use it to create different zones with different gravity ("classic" example: normal gravity inside a space ship or space base, low gravity outside), like Unreal Tournament had? That would be great, but I fear it's not in VanillaQ3...

Thanks for suggestions Gig  :D

I think that double gravity feature can be ok in OA  ;D ;D

For the map name i think it is cool this:"3013 Xan's Space"
;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 28, 2013, 07:46:46 pm
I thought Q3A already had a gravity value for worldspawn inherited from Q2?
Uh? Isn't that the option used normally to have a map use a gravity different than the default (800)? AFAIK, that affects the entire map... Do you want to say that there is a way to use it to create different zones with different gravity ("classic" example: normal gravity inside a space ship or space base, low gravity outside), like Unreal Tournament had? That would be great, but I fear it's not in VanillaQ3...
What Lei says is that the value for g_gravity (800) is inherited from Quake II.

It can be possible to give the entire map a set gravity, but not parts of it. And I'm afraid asking for support to that enters into NOTTODO territory.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on January 29, 2013, 02:27:45 am
And I'm afraid asking for support to that enters into NOTTODO territory.
Maybe, but I'm not sure. Domination and Double Domination were not part of Q3 or TA, but we have them. Same thing with some special game options (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Special_game_options) as "award pushing" (that is even enabled by default!), "vampire mode", "instantgib", "all rockets"...

OpenArena also did fix some of the original game limitations (e.g. by inventing "accurate" physics), and this may become one of them, IMHO (I repeat, it's just my opinion, I don't want to "force" anything/anyone).
Anyway, I can guess it may be somehow border-line for NOTTODO territory, so I would like to know the opinion of Fromhell about that.

(PS: However, I think it's probable it will never be realized anyway due to the effort it would require... but dreaming does not cost anything!  :) Who knows, maybe it's not so difficult do to as one might think... )


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on January 31, 2013, 01:50:34 pm
Hello OA people  ;D

I'm changing the map structure, but something similar at Xan map in UT because a don't want make a clone map.

Maybe in this week-end i'll give you an alpha version to try.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on January 31, 2013, 02:58:33 pm
Nice one!

I'll also have these days something to show, possibly for 2/2 or 3/2.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on January 31, 2013, 05:11:48 pm
As for the stars zipping by i'd suggest a skyroom to be implemented. Q3Map2 can do this. A scrolling shader and a curve cylinder can do the job


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 01, 2013, 10:04:39 am
As for the stars zipping by i'd suggest a skyroom to be implemented. Q3Map2 can do this. A scrolling shader and a curve cylinder can do the job

Eh eh, i have tryed this way but, in the compiling process, the editor give me an error.....XD....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 02, 2013, 08:59:30 am
Ok guys, here is the first Beta-Version only for you to test gravity/playability:
Now the gravity is half of normal.

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/90cd4kofhahsfsm2p42q

This version have many bugs and issues, i know...... :P ....it's just for testing.
Give me your suggestions.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on February 02, 2013, 02:15:25 pm
a) I don't like that the skybox is like a hexahedron (cube), because it looks strange that in front/back of the spaceship is just a black rectangle black hole. If possible, try a similar skybox (red color):
(http://imageshack.us/a/img812/5958/shot0029m.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/shot0029m.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

b) Hmm a bit more aerodynamic wouldn't be bad for such a spaceship :D
(http://imageshack.us/a/img138/8758/shot0036g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/shot0036g.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

c) Maybe make a boarder there?
(http://imageshack.us/a/img651/5301/shot0030t.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/shot0030t.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 02, 2013, 03:01:43 pm
@Adriano: The skybox way you suggest gives me an error if i use patch meshes, i'll try with an octagonal skybox for the next release.

You don't need borders for the window, to fall down you must jump, if you walk normally you never pass.

By the way, my dubts was with gravity/playability, any comment ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 03, 2013, 06:05:44 am
Updated Version !  ;D

I have worked to fix skybox issue but i've failed, then i have created a visual trick to avoid that issue.
Hope this is good for you all, tell me what do you think about.

Here is the Download Link for updated version:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/90cd4kofhahsfsm2p42q

Please, give me your opinion about gravity/playability.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 03, 2013, 06:36:15 am
Uploaded to the test server.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 03, 2013, 12:20:19 pm
Hi Akom! I've tried the second version of oa_akomdm4 (sorry I didn't test the first version).
Nice!  :) I like those graphic effects of the stars and the trusters! Where did you find them?

It's a nice 1vs1 map, I suppose it may be called oa_akomtourney1 (how many characters are allowed for map names?)...

I suppose it may be nice a way to reach the upper part of the ship (external) without the need to rocket jump, and to place some kind of item there.

I have to go now, bye!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 03, 2013, 12:44:45 pm
Hi Akom! I've tried the second version of oa_akomdm4 (sorry I didn't test the first version).
Nice!  :) I like those graphic effects of the stars and the trusters! Where did you find them?

It's a nice 1vs1 map, I suppose it may be called oa_akomtourney1 (how many characters are allowed for map names?)...

I suppose it may be nice a way to reach the upper part of the ship (external) without the need to rocket jump, and to place some kind of item there.

I have to go now, bye!

Hello Gig.

The stars effect it's possible by apposite script and the selfmade texture :P
The thrusters are original flame of Q3A/OA.

In the .arena file i have put 4 bot's name, but in the skirmish menu' you can change this to increase the number.

Actually you can go upstair without a rocketjump, i'm not sure what you mean.... ???

About low gravity/playability ? No one tell me ?  :P

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 03, 2013, 03:31:05 pm
@Akom74

I've tried it using cpma physics and i can get around well enough. I think its fun to have those 'dare' jumps in it, which are a bit hard to predict because i'm not used to this gravity yet.

It does feel like i have to 'come down and land' from low gravity circle strafe jumping in order to pick up any items, but that could be a plus.

@Gig
Yes you can, the windows next to the top portal, if you time your jump right, you could land one of the side hulls.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on February 03, 2013, 10:24:45 pm
You should make the streaking stars a darker color, right now it's adding too much visual noise


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 04, 2013, 01:29:17 am
@Gig
Yes you can, the windows next to the top portal, if you time your jump right, you could land one of the side hulls.

Quite dangerous, and without great reasons to do it (except a camping spot). I would suggest some other way to get there, and to place some item there.

About playability, that gravity seems good enough to me. The bot has a little habit of falling in the void, but sometimes I do the same...  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 04, 2013, 01:49:52 am
The stars effect it's possible by apposite script and the selfmade texture :P
Also scritps are copyrighted...

Quote
In the .arena file i have put 4 bot's name, but in the skirmish menu' you can change this to increase the number.
Actually there are 5 bots... anyway I tested it and it is funny also with so many bots for a such small map (although it's a little chaotic in that way). :) But at the match beginning, some telefrag happened.... I suppose you really should add some more spawn points. It may better fit with 4 bots... however, it may easily be named as a "Tourney" map.

Quote
Actually you can go upstair without a rocketjump, i'm not sure what you mean.... ???
I mean reaching the top... on the roof of the front part of the ship.

PS, talking IN GENERAL (not just about this specific map):
If you use q3radiant for your maps, I suppose it's difficult to place OA-specific items for OA special gametypes (see http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes), but anyway there are some of them that you can add support for very easily: Elimination and LMS do not require special objects. CTF Elimination and Double Domination just require red and blue flags (with the "gametype/ctf" key if you don't want them shown in other gametypes)... for Double Domination, maps don't need to be balanced... just the flags (becoming A and B points) have do not be next to players' spawn points (OA added specific "dd" spawn points for this... but I suppose if no specifc "dd" spawn points are found, the game uses standard spawn points intestead).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: adriano on February 04, 2013, 05:14:18 am
- gravity and skybox are well done
- Maybe I wouldn't place 1x5hp on each (let's say) 5meters, but better for example a little pack 3x5hp each 15meters(=jump distance) e.g., because it is a bit annoying walking all the corridor without jumping.  ;D
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5365/shot0129m.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/841/shot0129m.jpg/)

- The outside textures of the spaceship could be choosen better I think. For a spaceship I have something in mind with a grey simple texture, something like that: http://svenniemannie.deviantart.com/art/Spaceship-Texture-91959740 or just take a look on Google pictures
- The indoor structure is ok, the oval windows looks futuristic and that's good...it would be nice to see the indoor like that: http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/sci-fi-spaceship-corridor-3d-max/691516 but that's kinda too hard to make^^ so you can leave it like that
- but I would change the texture around the oval window


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 04, 2013, 11:34:29 am
Akom, I just realized you maybe misunderstood a phrase of mine. When I asked how many characters are allowed I was talking about MAP NAME LENGHT. I think oa_akomtourney1 may be the right name, if it is allowed.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 04, 2013, 12:37:43 pm
The stars effect it's possible by apposite script and the selfmade texture :P
Also scritps are copyrighted...

Ehm.... i have made it myself with a .txt file renamed to .shader and with my command line added into to give the appropriate effect, who is the copyright owner ???

Quote from: Gig
Actually there are 5 bots... anyway I tested it and it is funny also with so many bots for a such small map (although it's a little chaotic in that way). :) But at the match beginning, some telefrag happened.... I suppose you really should add some more spawn points. It may better fit with 4 bots... however, it may easily be named as a "Tourney" map.

There are only two spanpoint, it's a beta version  :P . Of course i will place more spawnpoint in the future release  ;D

For the gametype entity it's not a problem, my maps are FFA and TOURNEY.

For map name lenght i think it's good about 15 letters, but i'm not sure...


@fromhell: No problem, i think blue gradient will be better  :)



@Adriano: i will modify the map with some of your suggestons.....
..... you give me a "plastic" idea...  :P  ;D ;D



@Neon_Knight: Can't wait to try your map !!  ;D ;D



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 05, 2013, 01:10:06 am
The stars effect it's possible by apposite script and the selfmade texture :P
Also scritps are copyrighted...
Ehm.... i have made it myself with a .txt file renamed to .shader and with my command line added into to give the appropriate effect, who is the copyright owner ???
Reading that, it looks like you are the only copyright holder, so you can release it with any license you want... in this case, GPLv2. That effect is great, IMHO... when you reach a final version of it, I think you may subit it into the SVN commits thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1945.0), to make it official part of future OpenArena releases. I suppose you may even post more versions of it, with stars of different colors (white/gray/blue)?


I thing I would tweak, instead, is the teleporter texture. Attached here, you can find the pk3s with two ideas about how to try to change it a bit (just temporarily place -one at time- into your baseoa folder and go to the teleporter in oa_akomdm4). They are derived from your image and are GPLv2, too... you can even use them directly if you wish.
I also attach a comparison jpg for who is too lazy to actually test them.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 05, 2013, 07:37:51 am
Jangroothuijse is joining the crew!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 05, 2013, 11:29:21 am
Jangroothuijse is joining the crew!

This is a very good news !!  ;D ;D

@Gig: no problem with my new scripts and textures, in the final pack all will be released under GPLv2 as the mappack itself, right ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 06, 2013, 02:46:38 am
@Gig: no problem with my new scripts and textures, in the final pack all will be released under GPLv2 as the mappack itself, right ?
Yes, but I don't know where Fromhell is planning to store the map pack in the official OA SVN repository. I can guess it will be stored in a separate folder than the main game, and -for players- it will be available as an extra download package also in future OA versions (I don't know if some of these "addon" maps may be moved to "stock" maps in future, or not).
Example: for the next OA major release (probably called OA3 (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OA3)), Fromhell already stated that all "tribute" maps (at least the "tributes" to id Software games or to the Quake series... e.g. the conversions from Q1 maps) will be moved to a distinct "tribute maps package" download, while the main package will contain "OA original" maps only.

Your hyperspace effect is so good, in my opinion, that should be included also in some "stock" OA3 map... and should be included in the main OA package, so in the future (after OA3 release, so some years in the future) anyone will be able to create an OA3 map using that effect without the need to include a copy if it in the pk3 of each map.
In other words, I would suggest to do not tie this shader to the Community Package only, but to the whole OA... and it is the author of something that has to post it to the SVN commits thread.

PS: What do you think about the teleporter?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 06, 2013, 04:47:31 am
My contribution will likely be at least this map:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3)

I'm also working on another map, but its far from finished..


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 06, 2013, 04:55:17 am
Yeah, many of us won't reach the first deadline, which brings us to the next question... what about delaying the dates for a week? For example, the first beta was going to be released on February 15th. while the new date is February 22th, and so on.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 06, 2013, 05:24:39 am
My contribution will likely be at least this map:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3)

I'm also working on another map, but its far from finished..

About this version, I like it, but:
- Skybox is nice. Just wondering if it is possible to create it with an higher resolution (I suppose that may require to set a different "scale" to compensate), to make it less "pixelled" when looking at the sun using the zoom (see screenshot)? Not a real issue anyway.
- It looks like, in the outer corridors, the actual teleporter (invisible) entities are placed in the middle of the corridor, instead of next to the outer door. Is there a reason for that?
- I noticed a couple of places (see screenshots) where some little white dots appear along an edge... Some other OA maps have similar small glitches (e.g. a dorrway arch in the strange house map)... I don't know if there is a way to avoid them.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 06, 2013, 11:35:51 am
@Gig: no problem with my new scripts and textures, in the final pack all will be released under GPLv2 as the mappack itself, right ?
Yes, but I don't know where Fromhell is planning to store the map pack in the official OA SVN repository. I can guess it will be stored in a separate folder than the main game, and -for players- it will be available as an extra download package also in future OA versions (I don't know if some of these "addon" maps may be moved to "stock" maps in future, or not).
Example: for the next OA major release (probably called OA3 (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OA3)), Fromhell already stated that all "tribute" maps (at least the "tributes" to id Software games or to the Quake series... e.g. the conversions from Q1 maps) will be moved to a distinct "tribute maps package" download, while the main package will contain "OA original" maps only.

Your hyperspace effect is so good, in my opinion, that should be included also in some "stock" OA3 map... and should be included in the main OA package, so in the future (after OA3 release, so some years in the future) anyone will be able to create an OA3 map using that effect without the need to include a copy if it in the pk3 of each map.
In other words, I would suggest to do not tie this shader to the Community Package only, but to the whole OA... and it is the author of something that has to post it to the SVN commits thread.

PS: What do you think about the teleporter?

Maybe effects, textures and other stuff will be placed in a patch, for compatibility.

Don't know about the teleporter texture, maybe i will change it with another better.
Your textures are too much full of points.


About oa_akomdm4, i'm working to retexture it.....  ;D
;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 06, 2013, 11:51:48 am
... they are supposed to resemble a sky with stars, or some sort of  "white noise"...
Anyway thery are just examples... :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 06, 2013, 01:31:40 pm
Thanks for the feedback

My contribution will likely be at least this map:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1beta2.pk3)

I'm also working on another map, but its far from finished..

About this version, I like it, but:
- Skybox is nice. Just wondering if it is possible to create it with an higher resolution (I suppose that may require to set a different "scale" to compensate), to make it less "pixelled" when looking at the sun using the zoom (see screenshot)? Not a real issue anyway.
Yes i noticed that too, i think the GIMP just did a horrible job on the effect, i shall try to recreate the effect at a higher resolution and then scale back to normal, or tweak the effect.
Quote
- It looks like, in the outer corridors, the actual teleporter (invisible) entities are placed in the middle of the corridor, instead of next to the outer door. Is there a reason for that?

If you mean the to interconnected teleporters (in the 'tunnels') it has 2 reasons:
  • I wanted to create a 'end of tunnel' ilusion, where you see a white light at the end of the tunnel that after teleporting corresponds with the exit
  • To minimize telefragging
Else can you elaborate a bit more?

Quote
- I noticed a couple of places (see screenshots) where some little white dots appear along an edge... Some other OA maps have similar small glitches (e.g. a dorrway arch in the strange house map)... I don't know if there is a way to avoid them.

I've looked at with OA and ioquake3, and i can confirm the existence of these things...
Yes, those seam to be seams, so it seems you are seeing the skybox. Which should be geometrically impossible, because or floor part have a depth, and even if there is a tiny crack between things, one should see the sides of the floor parts and not the skybox.

It gets even worse, the middle picture the brown ground brush actually extends to under the black pillar....so...well...i'm a bit clueless as to how to fix this, aside from turning on AA ofc...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 06, 2013, 03:18:13 pm
Yeah, many of us won't reach the first deadline, which brings us to the next question... what about delaying the dates for a week? For example, the first beta was going to be released on February 15th. while the new date is February 22th, and so on.

You are right.
Good idea to shift the dead line!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 06, 2013, 03:27:40 pm
I hope to see other work before the deadline.....
We have to betatest it or not ? :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 06, 2013, 03:42:22 pm
And I would like oa_akomdm3 officially released :D anyway, shifting the deadline is a good idea, otherwise Akom74 will get all the glory :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 06, 2013, 04:33:46 pm
And I would like oa_akomdm3 officially released :D anyway, shifting the deadline is a good idea, otherwise Akom74 will get all the glory :P

Muahahaha !!!  ;D ;D ....just kidding.... :P

By the way, even jangroothuijse, Moixie, Peter Silie and Neon_Knight have some jobs "work in progress" and i think that in the beta will have about 10 maps, am i wrong ?  ???

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 06, 2013, 05:01:39 pm
I also vote for moving the deadline.

BTW, my map (oajgdm1) is called "The other side".


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 07, 2013, 12:28:02 pm
Update !

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 07, 2013, 12:40:56 pm
Wow!

Strong start trek vibe, looks very good!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Moixie on February 08, 2013, 02:32:06 pm
For the next 5 days, I won't be able to go on the computer because of working. The next next week I'll also have much work and I won't be able to work on maps. The next next next week, I'll have to do what I couldn't do the 3 previous weeks but I'll have much more time. I already accumulate lateness and I fear I won't be able to do what I planned to do when I accepted the project.

To sum up, if the deadline was shifted it would really help me.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 08, 2013, 03:03:36 pm
By request, every deadline has been shifted by a week. This means: more time to do what we have planned.

Also added jan's map to the list.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 09, 2013, 07:46:45 am
Update !

1) Modified some structure brush.
2) Added music
3) Added spawnpoint for weapons
4) Added 2 shotgun

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/90cd4kofhahsfsm2p42q

EDIT: Theorically all textures are original of OA-0.8.8, except for mine.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 09, 2013, 01:18:26 pm
Updated, testing in a moment.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 10, 2013, 12:46:13 pm
Updated, testing in a moment.

Ok, i'm waiting gamers for response.  ;D ;D
(...and i'm working on the oa_akomdm5... :P... )

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 10, 2013, 02:45:33 pm
oa_akomdm4
It's so easy to fall and die there :( especially with clumsy mobile controls. But it's a feature of this map. I don't really care if the gravity inside the ship is low - I'm not doing lot of jumps there, also the ceiling is not very high, so it bumps your down. The gameplay seems to be okay, and the stars effect is very cool.
Minor cosmetic changes could be made:
1. The pad with battle suit at the center is disconnected from the ship, and just floating in the air. I would make it something like a very small ship (escape boat?), or attach to a ship with something like chains hanging from the upper part of ship (however medieval chains inside futuristic space ship look little weird). Maybe with tubes or some kind of force beams.
2. The teleporter image looks like stars, so I though at first it's another window leading me to instant death. Some other texture would be nice, or maybe make it pulsating, so it more looks like teleporter.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-18-06-42_zps259aa32d.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-18-06-42_zps259aa32d.png.html)

oajgdm1
The map looks awesome, and plays very fine with cellphone, because it's big and open, there should be more maps like that in OA. I think I'll put it on my dedicated server along with oa_akomdm3 when the mappack will be released. Now, the things I would like to change:
1. Megahealth - it's only on one half of the map, and just lying on the ground, too easy to grab. Either make another megahealth at the similar spot on other half of the map, or put it at the map center instead of rocket (or near the rocket), or maybe put it in some spot not so easy to reach, for example here:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-49-05_zps50a5193f.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-49-05_zps50a5193f.png.html)
2. These two parts make me anxious, because I cannot jump there. Either make it reachable, or remove the slope, so that you understand from a single glance that you cannot jump up there:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-44-32_zps4747ccce.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-44-32_zps4747ccce.png.html) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-40-01_zps019bbba5.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-40-01_zps019bbba5.png.html)
3. I would replace those Tron-style textures with something more Aztec/Inca/Maya:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-53-07_zpsd16f822b.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-53-07_zpsd16f822b.png.html)
The pillars and all the black textures should be obsidian Aztec, and the wall to the right that splits the level should be dark stone Aztec:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-47-52_zps92186a39.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-47-52_zps92186a39.png.html)
But don't change this texture, I would like tiles of this color in my bathroom :)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-52-01_zps0980feb5.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-09-17-52-01_zps0980feb5.png.html)

I would like something like this (I don't know the license of these images! probably not GPL, I've just googled for "aztec architecture"):
photo (http://www.about-peru-history.com/image-files/inca_architecture02.jpg)
photo (http://www.jqjacobs.net/southwest/images/aztec_green_sandstone.jpg)
photo (https://courses.worldcampus.psu.edu/welcome/span131/images/PreColombianCivilizations/bimages/AztecArch.jpg)
photo (http://www.ontheroadin.com/miscellasneouspictures/Chocs%20Wall%20kabah.jpg)
photo (http://lh3.ggpht.com/-jtur1oPLD7c/T_jGMO46P1I/AAAAAAAAXxw/0jM4Llpd-gw/Aztec%252520Ruins%2525209-15-2007%2525203-08-13%252520PM.jpg)
photo (http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/96685/aztec1.jpg)
photo (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2615501100_b167d5337b.jpg)
photo (http://www.traveladdicts.connectfree.co.uk/Peru/images/Sacsayhuaman_Inca_wall.jpg)
photo (http://www.ianskipworth.com/photo/pcd1626/inca_wall_c_02_4.jpg)
photo (http://robyjen.com/images/southamerica/peru/incawall.jpg)
photo (http://www.rutahsa.com/wall-pi.jpg)
photo (http://www.travelwhimsy.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Chinchero-Inca-Wall.jpg)
photo (http://fs5k.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/cusco-17.jpg)
photo (http://i.images.cdn.fotopedia.com/anboto-kJkqKXG-l2E-original/World_Heritage_Sites/America/South_America/Peru/City_of_Cuzco/Inca_wall._Cusco_Peru.jpg)
photo (http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/wisedragon/wisedragon1010/wisedragon101000032/7957543-a-maya-wall.jpg)
photo (http://static2.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/5/9/1/large2/19502495.jpg)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 11, 2013, 02:36:49 am
Akom, I like the ability to go to the roof of the new version of the map.  :)
A thing I would suggest, if possible, is to place some kind of windshield (windscreen) texture on the eternal front of the ship. Players cannot enter the command cockpit, but anyway I suppose the existence of a command cockpit should be hinted.

For the battle suit pad, probably Pelya is right... who knows, maybe you may give it some enegy fields that would connect it to the ship, or its own small trusters...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 11, 2013, 02:19:51 pm
Map Modified !!

@GiG: Here is the cockpit !!  ;D (with MY glass-texture and script)

@pelya: Now the Battlesuit plat is "bobbing" on two tubes  :P

@pelya: New teleporters texture and script, watch it and tell me.

I have moved the plasmagun from the one floor to the upper one, for playability improvement.

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/90cd4kofhahsfsm2p42q

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 12, 2013, 05:44:04 am
Hi Akom! Nice work!

1) The pilots' room is nice.  :) I suppose it would be even better if you could place there a few more details, e.g. a door behind them and some kinds of controls (cloches/joysticks, or keyboards, or monitors...) in front of them. Maybe the seats may be a little "higher" at the cushions level...

2) The moving "Akom's platform" is nice, although now it is not necessary anymore to actually jump to reach the battle suit...

3) What about adding two more trust flames on the rear of the ship, next to the lateral edges (or mid-way towards them)?

4) I'm still not completely sure about the teleport, but now it's surely better than before.  :)

5) Maybe the two lateral aerodynamic sections of the front part of ship may have some more details and/or be more sharp-pointed in the lower part.

6) Maybe all the lower part of the ship should show some more details... considering you see it often enough while falling in the void, seeing a completely flat base isn't too nice.

7) Maybe you may add few small external windows along the lower "squared-ring" corridors. Just an idea.

P.S. Is it voluntary that the two ramps to reach the roof of the ship use different textures?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 12, 2013, 12:35:18 pm
Quote from: Gig
Hi Akom! Nice work!

Thanks  ;D

Quote from: Gig
1) The pilots' room is nice.  :) I suppose it would be even better if you could place there a few more details, e.g. a door behind them and some kinds of controls (cloches/joysticks, or keyboards, or monitors...) in front of them. Maybe the seats may be a little "higher" at the cushions level...

Quote from: Gig
2) The moving "Akom's platform" is nice, although now it is not necessary anymore to actually jump to reach the battle suit...

I have added one more cable in the middle because BOTs fall down too much :P :P

Quote from: Gig
3) What about adding two more trust flames on the rear of the ship, next to the lateral edges (or mid-way towards them)?

I've added them at the bottom of the ship :P

Quote from: Gig
4) I'm still not completely sure about the teleport, but now it's surely better than before.  :)

Thanks, I think it's very better now, but i'm waiting for pelya response about it :P

Quote from: Gig
5) Maybe the two lateral aerodynamic sections of the front part of ship may have some more details and/or be more sharp-pointed in the lower part.

For example ? I'm not sure of that, give me a screenshot and i will modify.

Quote from: Gig
6) Maybe all the lower part of the ship should show some more details... considering you see it often enough while falling in the void, seeing a completely flat base isn't too nice.

No problem, let me do something......stay tuned.... :P ...

Quote from: Gig
7) Maybe you may add few small external windows along the lower "squared-ring" corridors. Just an idea.

I'm not understending this, give me a screenshot of what part you want to modify.

Quote from: Gig
P.S. Is it voluntary that the two ramps to reach the roof of the ship use different textures?

No, it's an error, solved now  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 13, 2013, 06:24:39 am

Quote from: Gig
1) The pilots' room is nice.  :) I suppose it would be even better if you could place there a few more details, e.g. a door behind them and some kinds of controls (cloches/joysticks, or keyboards, or monitors...) in front of them. Maybe the seats may be a little "higher" at the cushions level...

Done ! Like the new one ?
Yes!  :) Maybe analog indicators on a futuristic spaceship may seem somehow obsolsete... but who cares! It's good!

Quote
Quote from: Gig
3) What about adding two more trust flames on the rear of the ship, next to the lateral edges (or mid-way towards them)?

I've added them at the bottom of the ship :P
Look good. Thank you. :)

Quote
Quote from: Gig
5) Maybe the two lateral aerodynamic sections of the front part of ship may have some more details and/or be more sharp-pointed in the lower part.

For example ? I'm not sure of that, give me a screenshot and i will modify.
Okay, see the first screenshot attached: making the part "thinner" in height, possibly making also laterally (internal and external?) the detail you applied to the top part of it. You may even place some sort of "spike" in front, if you like. This may apply also to the central section (in front of the cockpit), if you wish.

Quote
Quote from: Gig
6) Maybe all the lower part of the ship should show some more details... considering you see it often enough while falling in the void, seeing a completely flat base isn't too nice.

No problem, let me do something......stay tuned.... :P ...like it ?
It's better now. :)
Maybe you may even place a few lights there (and even laterally).

Quote
Quote from: Gig
7) Maybe you may add few small external windows along the lower "squared-ring" corridors. Just an idea.

I'm not understending this, give me a screenshot of what part you want to modify.
Take a look to the second image. However, I don't know if that would result very good, because, looking at the map again, I noticed the wall there is much more thick than I thought. However, if you wanna make a try anyway (keeping a backup of the map before doing that)...

PS: What about using the "new" OA logo for the moving platform? I mean, the thick one instead of the thin one? With a quick search, I've found \textures\cosmo_sfx\decal2.jpg in pak6-patch088.pk3, but there are probably more files including it around.

PPS: Found a small graphic glitch... spectate at the rear of the ship (from the rear), looking at the edges of the parapet. Do you see it? It affects both parts.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 13, 2013, 10:17:45 am
I've tested the updated oa_akomdm4.

The teleport is okay now.

The pilot cabin looks awesome, too bad you won't really see it in game (unless you fall).
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-13-16-35-48_zpsd53ca14d.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-13-16-35-48_zpsd53ca14d.png.html)
So I propose to make the whole cockpit covered with glass, not just front window. Make some windows at the sides and at the back, make a glass roof.
big helicopter photo (http://media.canada.com/c63f4d11-2ede-448b-9b72-1ba6a7817ecc/Helicopter.jpg)

You could put some powerup here, at the engine nose, so players will have more chances to see your awesome pilot cabin from the side window:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_Screenshot_2013-02-13-16-36-37_zps47df763c.png) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/Screenshot_2013-02-13-16-36-37_zps47df763c.png.html)

I like moving platform, it has one small bug - the battle suit powerup is not moving along with the platform, it hangs in the air. I suppose it's impossible to do anyway with OA map engine.

I have another idea about that platform, but I'm not sure if my idea is really better, so you can leave the platform as-is:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_c12522db-b4fc-443b-a13b-c32bd9267c28_zps02341fcd.jpg) (http://s256.beta.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/c12522db-b4fc-443b-a13b-c32bd9267c28_zps02341fcd.jpg.html)
The rails are moved to the top, and there are two consoles sliding them, and the platform is hanging on the ropes from these consoles. Like this:
random crane photo (http://www.uralstroyportal.ru/UserFiles/gantry%20crane.jpg)
another random photo (http://www.kranostroitel.ru/Image/KKK_Exp1.gif)
That platform is used to lift heavy crates or passengers into the ship when it's landed.
Also, since it's hanging on ropes, it would not only move forward and back, as consoles move, but also swing in random directions, and be unstable and scary to jump onto, like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7GvGqJquCU#t=7s).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 13, 2013, 11:24:03 am
Ok, i will take care of your suggestinos and see what i can do.

.....stay tuned....  :P

@Pelya: please, reduce the size of your photos  :P :D

@Neon_Knight: Read the message i have send to you please.  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 13, 2013, 11:43:35 am
@Pelya:

I've been working on my other map, but while you checkout that one i will tackle your suggestions:
* Mega health: its just on the ground, so that people would have to come down (and in the open) to get it, it does make it less balanced and i like the idea of 2 megahealths, so i'll try that!
* The slopes should definitly go up up there, i allways play in a physics with rampjumps, so i did not notice it would be unreachable.
* I'll look into the maya, aztec, inca textures.


The next map i would like to contribute, called 'Aimless fury', is ready for alpha testing, i will test the gameplay tonight. It is an alpha and still on the todo list are: Aligning textures, making clusterportals, lighting up the underground section so that you can see enemies a bit clearer.

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2alpha.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2alpha.pk3)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0552.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0553.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0554.jpg)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 13, 2013, 01:21:34 pm
Try not to use flared shaders in patches. They slow down a lot the FPS in maps. I've learnt that the hard way in some maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 13, 2013, 02:03:02 pm

@jangroothuijse: Nice job ! Work better on height of the floors, player dont have to hurt himself by jumping down if possible, i think....

About my map, i'm rebuilding and compiling it and soon i give you the new download link.

Dont care about much decorative stuff, for me it's ok now  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 13, 2013, 03:14:33 pm
@Pelya: please, reduce the size of your photos  :P :D

I've just linked random photos found by Google, sorry about that.
Let's just spam this thread instead, so it will continue on another page, and you won't need to load that page with big photos anymore ;D
We need only 5 more posts.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 13, 2013, 03:35:52 pm
Added oajgm2 to the Wiki, and updated oa_akomdm4, so every map of the pack should be updated at this point.

Tomorrow starts the first deadline, and I haven't even finished the maps I was working on. -.- Dammit!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 13, 2013, 04:11:32 pm
Final Version !!  ;D

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/90cd4kofhahsfsm2p42q

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Suicizer on February 13, 2013, 04:48:36 pm
Quote
Final Version !!

Wouldn't call it like that so far. The outside of the ship could use some more than just geometric contrasts (like textural or even lighting) as I only look at the screenshot.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 13, 2013, 05:05:35 pm
Updated oa_akomdm4.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 14, 2013, 08:21:38 am
I'm starting to pack the files for the first beta, hopefully I have at least one map from each author.

So far:
* Jan, .map files for your maps, where they are? They're required for GPLv2 compliance. Also the sources, are they the same as in the other thread?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 14, 2013, 09:49:02 am
oajgdm2alpha health and safety note:

One of the teleporters-exits or spawnpoints has slightly off-camber orientation, causing your viewport to go slightly off camber...

If anyone finds out which one, pls do tell...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 14, 2013, 03:41:24 pm
oajgdm2alpha: the map overall is okay, maybe a bit too detailed - it's sometimes confusing to tell where you are, and how to reach that powerup you see on the other side.
Teleporter look just like a wall. It should have some animated texture.
The one armor powerup is easily accessible with jump pad and teleporter - I would remove teleporter, and put jumppad  at different angle, so it's clear you're not jumping straight up. Another armor powerup at the top is accessible only with rocket-jump, or some heavy acrobatics with nearby jumppad, I would make it more easy to access.
BTW I did not notice any FPS drop, probably because Android OA port does not support shaders.

oa_akomdm4: well it's almost perfect. Three rails for a moving platform make it too easy to access, I would leave two, or maybe just one rail. Anyway, if you say it's finished, then it's finished :) it's already quite good.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 15, 2013, 02:33:40 am
Quote from: pelya
oa_akomdm4: well it's almost perfect. Three rails for a moving platform make it too easy to access, I would leave two, or maybe just one rail. Anyway, if you say it's finished, then it's finished :) it's already quite good.

I meant that's finished for the beta-release. For the official pack maybe some changes will be done. I mean even the other maps.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 15, 2013, 03:07:14 am
Hi Akom!
Congrats for the cockpit, it's great.  ;D
I agree with Pelya saying people should have some reason to see the cabin. He proposed to place some item over the top of the lateral sections, but you see very little of the cabin from there. I suggest, instead, to place a powerup just on the top of the nose of the ship, right in front of the cabin. A quad damage may be too much, considering it's near to the rocket launcher: maybe one may move the rocket lucher or (maybe better) place a megahealth or a "haste" (speed) on the nose. I would suggest the haste.  :)

I would also suggest to add a "stripe" of a different color in the front part of the ship... its colors look like too "flat" now.

You may also consider adding some thin wings, laterally.

See first screenshot for these three things.

Hey, you didn't fix the glitch I mentioned in the previous post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46153#msg46153)... :) See the second screenshot.

A thing I would ask to all people here is if they prefer the current blue-violet stars or the white ones of the first versions of the map. I'm not sure...

@jangroothuijse: nice map, maybe a bit cahotic, but nice. Teleporters should however be more easy so identify.

What's the meaning of making a beta of the whole package so early, if we have not yet seen anything from Neon knight?  ???

PS: to all mappers... why don't you add Double Domination support to your maps? I think it's possible also if you are using the classic q3radiant to map... (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46055;topicseen#msg46055)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 15, 2013, 06:09:50 am
Neither Moixie nor Peter Silie also delivered their maps yet. That's why we've shifted the original deadlines.
I'll try to complete my maps as much as possible this week.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 15, 2013, 06:44:07 am
Quote
Final Version !!

Wouldn't call it like that so far. The outside of the ship could use some more than just geometric contrasts (like textural or even lighting) as I only look at the screenshot.

You are right, but i look at the playability first. By the way, i'm making some stripe as suggested by GiG  :P

@Gig: On the "nose" of the ship i've inserted the portable teleporter, it's more useful with a map where you can fall down  ;D
....and sorry, no wings  :P

@Pelya: I leave three rails in the moving platform, because it's dangerous like before but BOTs play better.

@Neon_Knight: I'm working on my fifth map called "The Sanctuary"........ It remember you something ?  :P

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 15, 2013, 06:58:31 am
@Gig: On the "nose" of the ship i've inserted the portable teleporter, it's more useful with a map where you can fall down  ;D
....and sorry, no wings  :P
Yes, I assume a personal teleporter may be a nice idea in this map.  :) For the wings, you are the artist, man. But anyway I hope you do not work for BOEING or NASA...   :D The ship already looks more aerodynamic than in the first versions, but the lack of any kind of wing still sounds a little strange, IMO.

Quote
@Pelya: I leave three rails in the moving platform, because it's dangerous like before but BOTs play better.
I suppose the danger is that someone may shoot at you and cause you fall down, right? By the way, does the platform being moving have any purpose anymore? It's just a question.

Quote
@Neon_Knight: I'm working on my fifth map called "The Sanctuary"........ It remember you something ?  :P
Saint Seiya/Knights of the Zodiac maybe?

PS: Akom, did I already told you that at least oa_akomdm3 really should be listed for Elimination/Last Man Standing in the .arena file?

PPS: (Yes, I know I use too much post scriptums...) Considering oa_akomdm4 is supposed to be a futuristic spaceship, maybe you may use some more of the "metallic" textures used for example in WRACKDM17 map for some details of the ship, to have it seem made with less concrete and more metal (especially the outside)... Also some graphical details used in PUL1DUEL-OA map may fit well (take a look to that map, it's nice at look).

@Neon_Knight: I hope in your maps for support for Team Arena weapons, items, runes and gametypes (plus OA-specific gametypes).  ;)a


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 15, 2013, 07:24:26 am
TA-gametypes can be supported by any CTF map.

At least the CTF map I'm doing will support TA items/weapons. In fact, considering the trend, it could even be the only map with TA support in the pack.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 15, 2013, 07:27:33 am
TA-gametypes can be supported by any CTF map.
All three of them (Overload, Harvester, One flag CTF) absolutely require some items that are not included in the standard q3radiant (the obelisks, the skull generator, the white flag), IIRC. Is there a simple way to set it for TA? Akom (and jangroothuijse, IIRC) are mapping with q3radiant, not with GTKRadiant or NetRadiant.




About texture choice, maybe some mappers do not know this page:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Texture_packs


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 15, 2013, 12:11:08 pm
Neither Moixie nor Peter Silie also delivered their maps yet. That's why we've shifted the original deadlines.
I'll try to complete my maps as much as possible this week.

Jep, i am very late but i had to survive carnival.
I hope to make some progress this week and for a 1st look, i will include my .map file so you can take a look.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on February 15, 2013, 02:43:17 pm
Btw, Neon_Knight, when it's released, you have my word on making a news post topic and me moving it to the front page of the site.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: sago007 on February 15, 2013, 03:51:32 pm
All three of them (Overload, Harvester, One flag CTF) absolutely require some items that are not included in the standard q3radiant (the obelisks, the skull generator, the white flag), IIRC. Is there a simple way to set it for TA?
You can likely add custom entities by placing entity that the editor known and then change the classname to the relevant entity. The editor will not show the model but you can still place the origin and for TA-items knowing the origin is the most important thing because it must be aligned with the ground.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 15, 2013, 03:58:36 pm
Since all maps will be open-source, we can add those entities by ourselves, so let's not distract Akom's creativity with such boring little details. I have latest GTKRadiant installed, I've even launched it once and loaded some map, but it was too complicated for my little brains  ::) .


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 15, 2013, 04:11:51 pm
Btw, Neon_Knight, when it's released, you have my word on making a news post topic and me moving it to the front page of the site.
Yay!

@TheRest (?) you've heard of it, team! Let's work!

Since all maps will be open-source, we can add those entities by ourselves, so let's not distract Akom's creativity with such boring little details. I have latest GTKRadiant installed, I've even launched it once and loaded some map, but it was too complicated for my little brains  ::) .
http://www.leveldk.co.uk

That's a very good place to start.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 16, 2013, 02:24:03 am
Btw, Neon_Knight, when it's released, you have my word on making a news post topic and me moving it to the front page of the site.
I hope also that the sources may be placed in the OA svn (in a dedicated branch), and the pk3 package placed in the downloads section of the main site (http://openarena.ws/download.php). Will it be so?
By the way, is it good the name "community mappack" or maybe something like "official mappack" would make it more likely to be installed by people?

@Akom:
You know my fool ideas...  ;D
Looking at that pilots cockpit, I was thinking it looks like something is missing... the pilot! So I thought about this (http://www.myflightblog.com/images/autopilot_1.jpg) ("Otto" (http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyingwithfish/files/2011/10/otto.jpg)) or this (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm5mvyt8uM1qdz8mio1_400.jpg) (do you remember (http://www.google.it/imgres?hl=it&sa=X&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=I0dqRJsC-9co1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/ugly-cars.292641/&docid=fnH2_sILwkaJwM&imgurl=http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/fffangirl/jc1.jpg&w=668&h=568&ei=mkAfUfXHCojOtAb5_oHQCQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:7,s:0,i:103&iact=rc&dur=3139&sig=105475948561077723762&page=1&tbnh=174&tbnw=218&start=0&ndsp=20&tx=115&ty=76&biw=1280&bih=872)?)... so I wondered if it may be possible to place a character from OpenArena inside the cockpit... I thought about the upper part of Skelebot to act as a built-in autopilot.  :)
Maybe that's too much, and you could simply place a screen showing the word "AUTO" in the middle of the dashboard, instead.[1] What do you think about this?  :)

PS:
A thing I would ask to all people here is if they prefer the current blue-violet stars or the white ones of the first versions of the map. I'm not sure...
Any comment?


[1]And I have not Idea if Skelebot will be there and will be exactly the same in OA3... some changes in the model may bring to texture problems when later loading this version of the model (fused into the map itself) under the future OA3, unless one includes a copy of its current textures in the mappack itself, to be sure. Probably just using a display with "AUTO" is simpler.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 16, 2013, 04:11:52 am
Blue stars are okay for me, I would even add some yellow stars, if possible. More stars never hurt :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 16, 2013, 10:23:40 am
I'm working on "the Sanctuary", inspired by UT3 DM-Sanctuary..... :P....
....maybe soon i  give you some screenshots  ;)

For modify some aspects of my maps, please, in the release will be placed the original .map file, if you want you can change every thing you want, otherwise you can wait after the beta and hear what  other players think of the maps. Did you note that the original .map file already is in the PK3 released earlier ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 16, 2013, 02:51:42 pm
Oh, pretty cool! Though I never played a lot that map, but I see where it's going.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 16, 2013, 02:54:49 pm
Isn't that map supposed to have vehicles?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 16, 2013, 03:36:03 pm
No, it's a Deathmatch map. AFAIK, Sanctuary has no vehicles. You might be confusing it for VCTF-Necropolis.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 16, 2013, 03:53:09 pm
Isn't that map supposed to have vehicles?

Vehicles in OA ?? ....  ;D ;D

Nevermind at the missing textures :P
I dont have a skybox to emulate the original map, but i have make one miself with textures of OA and my script.
I have to say that the slime texture sucks a lot, and i think to remove it, or make one miself ... :P...

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 17, 2013, 07:28:03 am
Ok, i have removed the slime because i think to create a couple of lower passage and make that floor playable.
I've changed some textures and go forward with the map.
Here is an update:

I think it's time to try other mappers creation, can we try them ?  :P :P ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on February 17, 2013, 11:03:30 am
Vehicles in OA ?? ....  ;D ;D


While vehicles may be fun to have, it's impractical because of the already fast moving player physics.  UT2004 tried to compensate that by making players appear very tiny in levels.
It might be practical if, the said vehicles were drivable boats, because players aren't quite as fast in a liquid, and boat wars are fun! Plus, boats are a bit easier to code since you could get away with a fixed altitude.

Don't know if brush-entity vehicles are possible in Q3BSP (with brush rotation and collision), however.  That would be better since it would leave the creativity up to the mapper, who could either design the boat by brush, or by assigning a model, and having weapons on it, like Shadow Warrior



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 17, 2013, 12:22:03 pm
Vehicles in OA ?? ....  ;D ;D


While vehicles may be fun to have, it's impractical because of the already fast moving player physics.  UT2004 tried to compensate that by making players appear very tiny in levels.
It might be practical if, the said vehicles were drivable boats, because players aren't quite as fast in a liquid, and boat wars are fun! Plus, boats are a bit easier to code since you could get away with a fixed altitude.

Don't know if brush-entity vehicles are possible in Q3BSP (with brush rotation and collision), however.  That would be better since it would leave the creativity up to the mapper, who could either design the boat by brush, or by assigning a model, and having weapons on it, like Shadow Warrior

Seem interesting, but i'd prefer a MD3 model  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 17, 2013, 01:27:44 pm
UT2004 vehicles were good, useful and fun to play, however vehicles in Xonotic are not quite that good (yeah, I'm comparing high-budget commercial game with fan project here).
Vehicles are not only for fast moving around the map (that mosquito Manta vehicle or jeep are weaker than a rocket launcher, and can be blown-up easily).
The most useful vehicle was an artillery truck - slow, poorly armored, and with devastating firepower. Next to it was a tank - a slow-moving chunk of armor with 800 health and a cannon slightly weaker than a rocket launcher, used to protect said artillery truck.
Then, there were flying vehicles - it's an awesome idea, however they had awful controls in both UT2004 and Xonotic. I guess you need to create a Battlefield-style game for a good helicopter simulator.
Then, there are such things in Battlefield like mine launchers or turret-mounted chainguns, - essentially a stationary turret, which sometimes may be moved by player or two players, with lot of effort. I would prefer them in OA over vehicles.
Anyway, implementing vehicles or turrets requires huge effort, I guess everyone understands that, even if we'll borrow models and pieces of code from Xonotic. I can help you with coding (especially with "borrowing" part), but we need to get clear idea what we want to do first - it's better to have one properly implemented velobike or skateboard in OA than five crappy flying jumping tanks or helicopters, such as Centipede from Xonotic, or Manta from UT2004.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: fromhell on February 17, 2013, 01:53:49 pm
and then there's the player animation requirement. I'd have to make frames of sitting in various positions for everyone


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Moixie on February 17, 2013, 01:58:27 pm
I think it's time to try other mappers creation, can we try them ?

You're right. I had some time today and I spent it all to mapping. I finally finished the 2 maps (which were already finished --') I promised to post in December. Here they are: Mx1dm5 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4161) and Mx1ctf8_1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4160) (fixed)

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4156)

the space map (mx1dm5) is IMO "finished". I don't see how to improve it, it's playable and fun with bots (didn't test yet with real players, but it should be even better).

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4158)

The other (mx1ctf8_dm1, dunno how to describe it) isn't really finished:
* I have to add team indicators in each base.
* the map feels empty, it would need some ammos and other unuseful items.
* There are only 4 weapons: rocket, lightning, plasma and shotgun.
* ...
At least I'll be able to see if it's playable or not online, and how to improve it. the last version of it s***** c**** in d***** j**** of the g***.

I wish you good tests.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 17, 2013, 02:17:13 pm
Yay! I'll upload them to the D/L hosting.

Now, this prompts me to finish what I'm doing.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 17, 2013, 03:00:58 pm
Tested quickly :P

The arch need more details (my opinion)

As you see from the shot, the yellow circle indicate a very dark place, maybe it's my old monitor, i think that part need one light. The red circle indicate the bottom of the "door"..... i think it's better to place another texture, just an idea :P

Why don't you insert another light at the other side ?
It would be more lighted, no ? :P

Warning !

You forgot the .arena file for Mx1ctf8_1 and the .aas file as a different name  ???

By the way, you have done a very good job  ;D ;D ;D

Question: I need the skybox of Mx1dm5, where i can find it ?
(i know that's Annoice1 texture, but i can't find in OpenArena's .PK3, or maybe the relative script... :-[.... )

EDIT: Nevermind, i've found it in mc_oa.shader :P :P  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Moixie on February 17, 2013, 04:17:45 pm
Hello !

Question: I need the skybox of Mx1dm5, where i can find it ?
(i know that's Annoice1 texture, but i can't find in OpenArena's .PK3, or maybe the relative script... :-[.... )

Well, how to say that? When it's about writing scripts, I'm a big shit. I tried several ways but I never got what I wanted. So here is what I did: I opened the "mc-oa.shader" in the pak0 to see to the anoice script. I saved the folder before I modify anything. I modified the anoice1 script, I saved the modification and started to compile my map with the anoice1 texture (to be honest, I didn't understand anything. I tried 5 times before it works). Once compiled, I replaced the modified "mc-oa.shader" by the original one, the map didn't need the modified shader to work so you can't find it. Here is the modified file:

Code:
textures/anoice1/anoice1
{
qer_editorimage textures/anoice1/anoice1.tga
q3map_lightimage textures/skies/skywater.tga
surfaceparm noimpact
surfaceparm nolightmap
surfaceparm sky
q3map_surfacelight 150
q3map_globaltexture
q3map_sun 1 1 1  32  60  35
skyparms env/anoice1/anoice1 - -
{
map textures/skies/anoice1.jpg
blendfunc filter
tcmod scale 3 2
tcmod scroll .01 .02
rgbgen identity
}
}

The red circle indicate the bottom of the "door"..... i think it's better to place another texture, just an idea :P

In the first version of the map, I used a door texture which came from the "13vast" map. However, the maps we do, have to be under GplV2, so I couldn't use the 13vast texture and I used the best Oa texture I could find. Then, if you know or have another one which better fits, I'm interested.

The arch need more details (my opinion) [...] i think that part need one light.

I will try to detail it more. I will add some light on the jumpad under the door too.

Warning !

You forgot the .arena file for Mx1ctf8_1 and the .aas file as a different name  ???

It's even worse, the .bsp isn't the right one. Well, you played to the wrong version of the map.
I'm going to fix that.

ps: The .pk3 problem is fixed ! Now you can play to the right version.

pps: I gave a look to the mx1dm5 (space-map) pk3, it seems like I can't succeed on my the first try, it also had a problem. If I understood well, a 13vast texture was used as the floor texture. This specific textures exists in the default Oa textures under another name, I replaced it. and I made another pak3. I replace the download link upper.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 18, 2013, 01:24:27 am
mx1ctf8_t1:
Maybe a little too much cahotic (I tend to die quite often, playing with level 4 bots), but nice small CTF map. Does the regeneration powerup spawn a little too frequently maybe?

mx1dm5:
Very small, but not bad. But it seems bots do not like to use the jump-pads, so very little action happens on the upper floor. Already tried to place item_botroam entities?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 18, 2013, 11:08:47 am
@Moixie: Unfortunately, our Big problem it's about textures  :P

I suggest to remove the rocket launcher near the flag, players start with a shotgun and near the flag they can find the lightning and the other rocket launcher is down the stairs near the flag.
I think you can add some plasmagun ammo, i have see no one.

Now the CTF one it's better than before, more "large"  ;D ;D

In both af this maps i have no hear any music.

Quote from: gig
mx1dm5:
Very small, but not bad. But it seems bots do not like to use the jump-pads, so very little action happens on the upper floor. Already tried to place item_botroam entities?

There are too much items, and BOTs are attracted from them than other empty part of the map.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 18, 2013, 04:02:49 pm
Yay! I'll upload them to the D/L hosting.

Now, this prompts me to finish what I'm doing.

Can't wait to see your job !!  ;D >:D ;D  :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 19, 2013, 01:49:15 am
Looks nice. Add more blue pillars of light, they look awesome.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 19, 2013, 08:18:44 am
New version of oajgdm2:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta.pk3)

Streamlined the item placement and colors, should be less chaotic now.
Fixed some of the other issues, teleporters are not changed yet.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 19, 2013, 09:34:48 am
oajgdm2: it plays better now, items are distributed across the map more uniformly, and after some time playing it with bots, I don't feel so lost on how to get from point A to B.
I like that you can jump between almost all upper-level platforms without falling down.
I've seen you fixed diagonal jump pad, but the teleporters still look like a piece of black wall. They should have some different texture, or at least some neon lamps around them.

I did not test Moixie maps yet.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 19, 2013, 09:45:30 am
News...

For travelling reasons, I won't be able to release the first beta in February 22th. Should we delay the release date for February 23, or keep it in 22 with me uploading the beta in February 21?

My maps aren't still ready (hopefully at least one of them will be for the release date, I'll delay the other two for the next date), and Peter has to finish what he has (we have the .map file for a first peek, anyway).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 19, 2013, 10:24:30 am
New version of oajgdm2:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta.pk3)

Streamlined the item placement and colors, should be less chaotic now.
Fixed some of the other issues, teleporters are not changed yet.

Now it's really better !!  ;D ;D
The map is without music  :P

Very good job.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 19, 2013, 12:25:03 pm
February 23 is okay for me :) although map authors should have the word here.
It feels like we'll have another beta instead of the final release in two weeks, I don't have any objections for more polished release.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 19, 2013, 01:47:07 pm
Exactly, there's going to be two betas before the final release. The dates are in the wiki page linked at the first post.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 19, 2013, 02:05:39 pm
Exactly, there's going to be two betas before the final release. The dates are in the wiki page linked at the first post.

Have we to do one pack with our maps ? Or in the final release all maps will be filled in only one PK3 file, maybe even as an official patch file ?

The COPYING file i found in OA folder it's the one that you need in our PK3 ? Can we use it ?

Sorry for questions, but for the final release all have to be perfect :P  ;D

P.S.: I'm working to fix my maps with betatesters suggestions.

;)

EDIT: This community mappack have to be named like [CMP] (Community Map Pack) ?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 19, 2013, 03:13:33 pm
Good name, it is a bit close to CPM though...
We should probably also use matching artwork in the levelshots...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 19, 2013, 04:19:01 pm
Have we to do one pack with our maps ? Or in the final release all maps will be filled in only one PK3 file, maybe even as an official patch file ?
All the maps will be placed into a single PK3 file. About the official patch, that's something fromhell has to decide. :P
Official or not, it will be released in the specified dates.

The COPYING file i found in OA folder it's the one that you need in our PK3 ? Can we use it ?
The beta releases will contain them. But with the assets + asset sources ATM it's OK.

Sorry for questions, but for the final release all have to be perfect :P  ;D
No need to be sorry. All questions are welcome.

P.S.: I'm working to fix my maps with betatesters suggestions.
:thumbup:

EDIT: This community mappack have to be named like [CMP] (Community Map Pack) ?
It's OACMP, short for OpenArena Community MapPack. :P

Good name, it is a bit close to CPM though...
We should probably also use matching artwork in the levelshots...
There's a lot of CMPs for many games called "Community Map Pack" or "Community Bonus Pack". I've figured out we should start with a mappack before including other assets such as models/skins.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 19, 2013, 05:20:17 pm
OK, main layout is finished now (except some minor glitches @ base floor in main hall to mirror the map for the 2nd base).
I hope to make a beta release on weekend, so we were just in time.

What you can expect
- a _real_ beta. Just the layout is done
- no lightning
- no items/weapons
- hopefully some working jumppads ;)

What to do next
- many detail work on brushes
- lightning
- item placement

Feel free to take a look inside the map file!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 19, 2013, 10:12:39 pm
Well, take your time to work on it, and release it later. I'm coming out with two maps for the second beta as well.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 20, 2013, 06:47:07 am
Excuse me, I was curious to know how the guys here that use q3radiant to create OpenArena maps work with textures. Working with standard Q3 textures is a mess, because the final look may look somehow different than what you see in the editor, and sometimes brings to "missing" textures (due to the texture compatibility goal being not yet completed). And does not allow to use textures that may be part of OA but not of Q3A.
And what about md3 models? Considering we cannot use md3 items that come with q3radiant in these maps (that aim to be 100% GPL, and I suppose models from Q3 are not), did you manage to throw in OA md3s in some way, or do you simply avoid using md3 models at all, and do everything with radiant brush work?

How do you manage this, guys?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 20, 2013, 10:15:19 am
I use netradiant with the Q3A/TA package, so indeed the wrong textures.

I've solved this by putting the evil*.pk3 files in the right dir, and only occasionally browse OA's textures (which i have unzipped so i can search) to find more textures (which i then add one-at-a-time). But my texturing has been pretty simple so far.

I've used one original q3 md3 model (for a teleporter), which i replaced by some brushwork to make it work in OA.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 20, 2013, 12:46:16 pm
No probs here.
I installed OA twice - one version just for the radiant (untained from other textures).
But i never had problems with textures or models, so i do not understand your question the way it could ment?!

[Edit]

I Did it.
Remember: no lightning, no detail brushes and so on.
I also have to modify the walls :(
I have to lower them for 32 Units.

All Files included - also the right license. But i missed a screenshot :D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 21, 2013, 03:09:19 am
I one version just for the radiant (untained from other textures).
But i never had problems with textures or models, so i do not understand your question the way it could ment?!
Which radiant? q3radiant? gtkradiant? netradiant?

PS: about your map: nice, but check the jump pads... at least two of them do not work! And all of them have missing textures.
Also, there are little areas of wall instead of metallic outside the lower corners of the doorways.
And I found a glitch, maybe overlapping brushes (see screenshot).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 21, 2013, 12:54:54 pm
Sorry, Gig.
I missed the point that u have asked for q3radiant.
I use gtk...

Thx for the quick look.
I hadnt included the textures, but if you have the god-pak, u should be able to fix it.
Scrpts are also needed or just wait some hours ;)

The 2 other probs will be fixed soon :)

[Edit]
I fixed all 3 issues, but i think that the map is toooo large.
So i will make a smaller redo from scratch.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Gig on February 22, 2013, 02:29:31 am
@Peter
I don't have the GOD-pack, and I don't know its license, anyway remember that OACMP will have to work on "clean" OpenArena 0.8.8 installation, and everything in it has to be fully GPLv2 (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack).
You may even release two versions of the map with different sizes, to fit different tastes... but maybe that would be too much!  :D


@All
Excuse me, can you tell me what's the correct (or best) way to align a circular "pillar" to the ground?
Take a look to the attached screenshot. I created some "colums" by creating a standard brush first, then I used "curve"->"cylinder" to make it circular, and then I used "curve" ->"cap"->"normal" to "close" it. But now, what's the correct way to align it to the ground? Removing the lower cap? Aligning the cylinder to the ground, "burying" a little the cap in the ground? Aligning the cap to the ground? I suppose it's the third, but I prefer to ask you.

Well, I'm tring to use my little q3radiant knowledge to make a map... if you would like it, it may be included in the pack. But it's still at an alpha stage... I can't yet say if the final result will be okay or not...  :)
It's not the "test1" map I mentioned in a previous post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45841#msg45841), it's a new one.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 05:02:25 am
Well... travel was frustrated (-.-) and I didn't got to finish my map in time, so first beta will be packed with 8 maps.

If you don't mind or don't have another update of your maps, I'll upload it now, so tomorrow it can be available.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 22, 2013, 10:11:18 am
Gig, as long as the cylinder is side by side to the ground it is ok.
Do not move the cylinder inside the floor.

And for the licence: all my work is released under gpl2 or later - including textures, scripts and so on.
I already commited some maps to the svn thread, so the GoD-Pak is GPLed for sure :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 22, 2013, 11:26:49 am
Well... travel was frustrated (-.-) and I didn't got to finish my map in time, so first beta will be packed with 8 maps.

If you don't mind or don't have another update of your maps, I'll upload it now, so tomorrow it can be available.

Wait !!! I have to give you the updated version of oa_akomdm4 and a beta of oa_akomdm5

Can you wait ? If not, no problem, the other maps and the updates will be released in the final version  :P ;D

 ;)

EDIT: in the attachment you will find the latest versione of os_akomdm4 (the PK3 is in the zip file)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 02:06:14 pm
Jan has also to give me a third map of his, a CTF map, so they'll enter as well.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 03:38:19 pm
Akom, change the font of the files textures/akom74/gig's_nightmare_x.tga and textures/akom74/fragbastard.tga. They use a non-GPL font which is in turn based on a font with copyrighted characters.

For suggestions of GPL'd fonts, I'm doing some research on that. Perhaps a good site to start might be fonts2u.com?
[fromhell alert]


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 22, 2013, 07:36:10 pm
I would love to improve this, but for now here it goes:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgctf1alpha.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgctf1alpha.pk3)

Known issues: spawnpoints at the start of the game, has no levelshot...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 08:08:46 pm
If the .map is there, I can take care of it. (That's why this is a GPLv2 pack)

Anyone else to submit stuff before 00:00 (GMT -03:00 [Buenos Aires, Georgetown])?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 09:26:26 pm
OK, starting the packaging.

8:00 AM (GMT -03:00 [Buenos Aires, Georgetown]) the beta will be posted.


Title: [WIP] OACMP Beta 1 Ready to be D/L'd-
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 22, 2013, 10:55:53 pm
Beta with 9 maps: (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_oacmp_beta1.pk3) (Pack should weigh 39 MB or 39.991 KB)
- oa_akomdm1, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm2, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm3, by Akom74
- oa_akomdm4, by Akom74
- mx1ctf8_t1, by Moixie
- mx1dm5, by Moixie
- oajgctf1, by jangroothuijse
- oajgdm1, by jangroothuijse
- oajgdm2, by jangroothuijse

9 maps by 3 authors, with at least five more maps (four of them from other two authors) for the following beta. For the first volume, this is pretty cool!

So far, the only things are the following:
- Akom, read this post: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46280#msg46280. I'll skip this for this beta, but not for the next or the final package.
- Jan, I took care of the problems you've mentioned in your CTF map, I've also added support for the other CTF-based modes (One Flag CTF, Harvester, Overload) as well. Moixie, I've also added this kind of support for your CTF map as well. Hope both of you don't mind.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 23, 2013, 05:38:14 am
Thanks, looks very good. During my test runs i did not notice any big errors or missing stuff, so thats good!

@Testers, this pack includes a slightly newer version of oajgdm1 than i've posted in this thread (small layout and textures changes).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 23, 2013, 06:54:27 am
Perhaps a link to the mappack file could be on the wiki page?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 23, 2013, 07:01:33 am
I've added it to the first post. Betas are going to be limited to the thread. Otherwise servers might serve beta versions once the final version has been released.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 23, 2013, 07:09:02 am
Good news from my side: i already finished the new flag room of the smaller version.
I hope to be in time for the next beta!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 07:11:38 am
Akom, change the font of the files textures/akom74/gig's_nightmare_x.tga and textures/akom74/fragbastard.tga. They use a non-GPL font which is in turn based on a font with copyrighted characters.

For suggestions of GPL'd fonts, I'm doing some research on that. Perhaps a good site to start might be fonts2u.com?
[fromhell alert]

Done ! I've changed both with "arial" font  ;D

@Moixie: In your CTF map you have placed the flag pole in the wrong way :P :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 23, 2013, 07:26:15 am
That's my fault actually. -.- I've added support for 1FCTF/Harvester/Overload to that map and jan's map, and those bases come from the required models for those modes.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 07:31:11 am
That's my fault actually. -.- I've added support for 1FCTF/Harvester/Overload to that map and jan's map, and those bases come from the required models for those modes.

....XD.... Oops !  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 23, 2013, 07:38:01 am
BTW, what about one of these fonts instead of Arial?

http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=GNU%20General%20Public%20License
http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=GNU%20Lesser%20General%20Public%20License
http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=Public%20Domain%20%28not%20a%20license%29

These fonts can be used in GPL stuff without having to worry for license issues.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 09:16:14 am
Beta with 9 maps: (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_oacmp_beta1.pk3) (Pack should weigh 39 MB or 39.991 KB)
Your server marks .pk3 files as a plain text instead of zip, so it shows up as text in a browser, instead of downloading it to disk. Maybe you could make a plain .zip archive, with .pk3 file inside, and sources in separate directory?

oa_akomdm1: I think it's ready for release, I have minor complaints about lower part of the map being boring, but you can ignore that - I think it's inevitable for a big map like that.
oa_akomdm2: it's too dark even on my PC, and has no sky texture, otherwise it's a good map. I've tried to add a global light to it, here's .map file (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwueOoj_DB7YWUxnMzlSVWdiOGM/edit?usp=sharing), here's .pk3 file (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwueOoj_DB7YNmtRNDI0SlJ6ZjQ/edit?usp=sharing), although bots cannot spawn on it, probably because of badly compiled .bsp file.
oa_akomdm3: the best map ever, ready for release.
oa_akomdm4: no flaws, ready for release.
mx1ctf8_t1: nice small map, very easy to learn, I did not notice any flaws, aside from few misplaced textures.
mx1dm5: it's too overpowered with weapons to my taste, I would remove the rocket launcher at all, and replace it with shotgun, or put just one rocket launcher instead of quad damage (maybe it's because bots killed me too much). Also, there is a spawnpoint at the upper part of the map which makes you spawn faced outwards, so if you spawn and run ahead, you fall and die. Also, the fancy lower teleporter+jumppad combo did not work for me, I've collected health and jumped upwards, then fell down through the hole and died, because the door did not close in time. I would rather make those jumppads just launch you to the upper platform, and remove that door at the floor.
oajgctf1: good large map, and I like that there's no railgun - it makes your basic chaingun a weapon of choice for sniping down enemy flag carrier, and there's no easy escape route, so you have to plan your attacks. Although if both flags were taken, it could become a stalemate. I did not notice any bugs, I think it's ready for release.
oajgdm1: I see you've added another megahealth and fixed the slopes, I have no other complaints about this map, I think it's ready for release.
oajgdm2: come on, fix the teleport texture. This is my only complaint.

Quote
Warning - while you were typing 7 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Oh no :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 09:32:20 am
BTW, what about one of these fonts instead of Arial?

http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=GNU%20General%20Public%20License
http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=GNU%20Lesser%20General%20Public%20License
http://openfontlibrary.org/en/search?license=Public%20Domain%20%28not%20a%20license%29

These fonts can be used in GPL stuff without having to worry for license issues.

You mean that the SIL Open Font License is equal to GPLv2 License ?
Ok, i think i use some of this.  ;D

@Pelya: oa_akomdm2 (Danger Arena) have a night sky, no textures. It has to be dark, but if you want you can modify the brightness from the game settings.
Append your files as attachment to your posts, i dont have a google account  :-[

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 10:06:21 am
@Pelya: oa_akomdm2 (Danger Arena) have a night sky, no textures. It has to be dark, but if you want you can modify the brightness from the game settings.
Append your files as attachment to your posts, i dont have a google account  :-[
Well, if that's your idea for it to be dark, I won't complain about it anymore. I've attached my version.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 10:19:25 am
@Pelya: oa_akomdm2 (Danger Arena) have a night sky, no textures. It has to be dark, but if you want you can modify the brightness from the game settings.
Append your files as attachment to your posts, i dont have a google account  :-[
Well, if that's your idea for it to be dark, I won't complain about it anymore. I've attached my version.

@Pelya don't be angry  ;D ;D I've see what you mean and i will modify the map  ;D
.....stay tuned....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 23, 2013, 10:27:29 am
That's cool!
Which fonts have you used?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 10:36:22 am
That's cool!
Which fonts have you used?

I've used the Verdana Font original from WinXP. I hope is right  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 12:11:30 pm
Verdana font is a part of Microsoft Core Fonts package, there are even Linux packages that do that for you (http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/ttf-mscorefonts-installer), but it's not open-source - you can redistribute the font files freely, but only non-commercially, and you cannot modify them. There are apparently no restrictions on the usage of these fonts (so you may sell images produced using these fonts, or put any license on those images etc).
 Here is their licensing terms  (http://www.microsoft.com/typography/faq/faq8.htm)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 23, 2013, 12:12:53 pm
That's cool!
Which fonts have you used?

I've used the Verdana Font original from WinXP. I hope is right  ;D

 ;)

With that much smilies, i could not tell if you are kidding or not. Anyway:

Kalimaty and FreeSans are very close to Verdana and Arial respectively, you might want to try the ubuntu font, i like it on almost anything and particularly on big characters.

Those are free fonts, you can use them, there are ofc many more free fonts.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 23, 2013, 12:37:05 pm
What about not using text at all? That would avoid any fonts issue! Seriously.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 12:38:49 pm
I dont understand...... by the way here it is a site that seems good:
fontsquirrel.com

Can you confirm it ?

@GiG: It's not text, it's an image with shader effect...... :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 01:04:53 pm
Gig probably means drawing some text yourself. Using a pencil or brush, you know ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 01:21:55 pm

Ok, i have removed the Fonts in all my maps.

Here is the new version, more illuminated, of the oa_akomdm2.

Please Pelya, tell me if it's good now.
I have maked a personal Black sky with his own script, just for you :P  ;D

.....soon i will give to you all a playable version of oa_akomdm5 "The Sanctuary".....
......................stay tuned...............

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 23, 2013, 01:46:11 pm
What I suggested was to completely remove text, except what is really useful (e.g. a plate with "warehouse" on the door of a warehouse may have some sense... or an "auto" display for the ship's autopilot).

IMHO, there is no real reason to write "Moixie was here" or "Neon Knight is an action" on an Egypt-themed map... so if it is difficult do find correct fonts for them, you can just skip the problem by not writing those phrases.
And, personally, I don't like that "Gig's nightmare" thing (no offense, please, but I don't like that specific idea, I have to say the truth). I like oa_akomdm4, it's not a nightmare for me!  :)


PS: Sorry I will not be able to test the package and the newest things before Monday...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 01:58:37 pm
oa_akomdm2 is now very playable, thank you!

I have maked a personal Black sky with his own script, just for you :P  ;D

Well okay, I meant it could have some stars. this sky photo, for example, is rather dark (http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic1106d/), and this one too (http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic1111d/), and you can also tune the photo brightness down, so there will be only few bright spots.
The totally black sky feels like as if I've locked myself in a bathroom ;D But you can leave it black, it's already good for release.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 23, 2013, 02:17:15 pm
@GiG: No problem  ;D

@Pelya: This time the map is good ? Unfortunately i've tryed to change the black sky with stars but the engine show the stars only if you are very close at the brush.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 23, 2013, 03:30:17 pm
Then leave it as it was before, I have no problem with black sky.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 24, 2013, 06:26:23 am
NEW UPDATE !

Finally i can give to you all a playable version of my fifth map  ;D

It has some light issues but i'll fix them  :P

I'm using anoice1 texture for my skybox, i've changed the light radius and the sun.
Now it seems good for me.

 ;)


EDIT: I think we need more music track.... :P ;D.....


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 25, 2013, 03:29:32 am
Nice. Maybe the internal part of the map is a little too dark?

It's a little strange how stepping on weapon spawn points makes you "slide" a little... but it can be funny.

For the other maps of the pack, I've given a quick try to them, and I haven't noticed clamorous bugs as missing textures. However, it was just a quick try...

PS: I still miss an "auto" screen for oa_akomdm4... 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 25, 2013, 10:45:29 am
Nice. Maybe the internal part of the map is a little too dark?

Yes, i have to fix this missing light.  :P :D

PS: I still miss an "auto" screen for oa_akomdm4...  

What do you mean ?
You mean in the cockpit ?

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 25, 2013, 11:22:52 am
You mean in the cockpit ?
Yes.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 25, 2013, 11:38:51 am
Ok, i have removed the Fonts in all my maps.
What I suggested was to completely remove text, except what is really useful (e.g. a plate with "warehouse" on the door of a warehouse may have some sense... or an "auto" display for the ship's autopilot).
I have a better idea. Akom, what about if I do those letters?

IMHO, there is no real reason to write "Moixie was here" or "Neon Knight is an action" on an Egypt-themed map... so if it is difficult do find correct fonts for them, you can just skip the problem by not writing those phrases.
And, personally, I don't like that "Gig's nightmare" thing (no offense, please, but I don't like that specific idea, I have to say the truth). I like oa_akomdm4, it's not a nightmare for me!  :)
Easter eggs, while not as useful as a secret room holding a precious item, helps giving a map it's own personality. For example, the secret room in Unreal Tournament's DM-Codex, or many secret areas in Quake III Arena's maps (Think about that secret room facing the teleporter in q3dm11, "Deva Station").

EDIT: I think we need more music track.... :P ;D.....
There're 14 music tracks in the SVN (http://openarena.ws/svn/music).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 25, 2013, 11:57:33 am
I have a better idea. Akom, what about if I do those letters?

No problem for me  ;D ;D

There're 14 music tracks in the SVN (http://openarena.ws/svn/music).

Why in the OA folder there is no other tracks ? It have only 7 music tracks in the pak6-patch088 folder .... ???....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 25, 2013, 12:49:06 pm
That's because not all the tracks were meant to be included, since it was, like the filename says, a patch for a full version, and not a full version itself, and hence, the filesize must have been kept short for downloading reasons. The next full version will be OA3 (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OA3), and it will include all of those tracks.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 25, 2013, 03:44:24 pm
That's because not all the tracks were meant to be included, since it was, like the filename says, a patch for a full version, and not a full version itself, and hence, the filesize must have been kept short for downloading reasons. The next full version will be OA3 (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OA3), and it will include all of those tracks.

Ok, what about insert the other music tracks in another (official)  patch file  ?
Can we use the tracks anyway ?  :P



By the way, what about the design/playability of the fifth map ?
Nothing to tell ? It's only to fix the lights ?

Tell me.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 26, 2013, 01:57:02 am
@Neon_Knight: Yes, easter eggs can be nice... but I meant you can't lose your sleep for them.

@Akom:
- Stepping over the flames may give you a little damage, maybe?
- Maybe some weapons may spawn a little more often (e.g. the rocket launcher in the external "tower").
- Found a graphic glitch, see screenshot.
- The skybox may be a little larger, to let rockets fly a little more before disappearing.
- You may add target_location entities (this also for other maps).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 26, 2013, 05:03:48 am
Oh, never noticed the link. Downloading!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 26, 2013, 10:34:46 am

@GiG: I take a look to that glitch and fix some lights  :P :D

@ALL: Maybe i've found a Metal Band that can give to me some music tracks, what type of documentation is needed to make this audio tracks GPLv2's ? Tell me please. This Metal Band ask only to be mentioned, i think it's not a big problem, am i right ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 26, 2013, 11:41:10 am
There are some sites, which provide free music under Creative Commons - Attribution license, CC-BY is generally thought to be compatible to GPL, if used for art, and not software code.
freemusicarchive.org (http://freemusicarchive.org/search/?adv=1&quicksearch=&music-filter-Artist=1&music-filter-Album=1&music-filter-Track=1&music-filter-CuratorLabel=1&music-filter-Tags=1&search-genre=Electronic%2C+Rock&search-artist=Artist&search-curator=&commercial=1&remix=1&repost=1&podcast=1&video=1)
list fo sites with free music (http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/7743/where-can-i-find-music-or-sound-effects-for-my-gam.html) another list (http://content.gpwiki.org/index.php/Game_Content_Resources)
We can also "borrow" from other (http://ufoai.org/wiki/About) open-source (http://www.xonotic.org/) games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_video_games).

@Akom: sorry, I did not test your new map yet, I'll do that soon.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 26, 2013, 11:54:09 am
There are some sites, which provide free music under Creative Commons - Attribution license, CC-BY is generally thought to be compatible to GPL, if used for art, and not software code.
NOTE: I don't know if Fromhell is of this opinion... maybe not.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 26, 2013, 12:02:57 pm
If a music is under CC-BY license or public domain, and in a form of a tracker file (so you can modify it), it should satisfy even Fromhell. So, it would be this (http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_license&page=0&query=publicdomain) and this (http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_license&page=0&query=by) links. Not much of a choice though.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: fromhell on February 26, 2013, 12:39:21 pm
Modarchive is a bit out of control when it comes to displaying 'publicdomain' works though, so you can't trust that. I've seen commercial song covers on "public domain" there.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 26, 2013, 01:02:06 pm
Modarchive is a bit out of control when it comes to displaying 'publicdomain' works though, so you can't trust that. I've seen commercial song covers on "public domain" there.

Ok, if this Italian Band want to contribute to OA and give to us their audio tracks, what document is needed ? They have only to release their own work under GPL with the COPYING inside ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 26, 2013, 01:09:18 pm
If they record separate tracks and tnen mix them, or do any post-processing, they also need to release a separate soundtracks/individual instrument recordings, and the project file of the program they use to mix/post-process.
If they record the whole track live,  there is  only one audio track.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 26, 2013, 01:25:22 pm
If they record separate tracks and tnen mix them, or do any post-processing, they also need to release a separate soundtracks/individual instrument recordings, and the project file of the program they use to mix/post-process.
If they record the whole track live,  there is  only one audio track.

Ok, if they record one track at time with no post-processing, they have to release it only with the copying file that follow the tracks ? I mean, their job is to be considered GPL'd ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: fromhell on February 26, 2013, 01:49:13 pm
a BAND?!  I know in the past there has been some indie bands wanting to get a break into promoting their non-Free music in OA but


Yeah this is why I suggested sticking to tracker formats, but scavenging existing tracker music is not the way to go due to dubious origins of samples and arrangements that may not be fine for the GPLv2


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 26, 2013, 02:10:32 pm
Yeah this is why I suggested sticking to tracker formats, but scavenging existing tracker music is not the way to go due to dubious origins of samples and arrangements that may not be fine for the GPLv2

 :-[ ok, understand, no problem, it was just an idea.......

;)


EDIT: Meanwhile i've updated the map  ;D

Red armour moved from the center of the map.

Do you like the custom lamp ? Now that room is better lighted.

Added some columns and a broken terrain for the rocket launcher.

Download it and tell me.
;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 27, 2013, 02:26:57 am
Tested. I like this map, it seems good for Elimination and Last Man Standing... (even Tournament maybe?)
Lights are nice.
Target_location still missing.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 10:19:04 am
Tested. I like this map, it seems good for Elimination and Last Man Standing... (even Tournament maybe?)
Lights are nice.
Target_location still missing.

Yes yes, all games are supported (i hope)  :D

Quoted from Q3Radiant:
Quote
Location marker used by bots and players for team orders and team chat in the course of Teamplay games. The closest target_location in sight is used for the location. If none is in sight, the closest in distance is used.

The Target Location it's used for teamplay, this is a free for all map  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 27, 2013, 11:05:41 am
You should place them anyway. :P

FFA maps can still be used for team games, and some teamgame-based mods even use FFA maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 01:46:31 pm
You should place them anyway. :P

FFA maps can still be used for team games, and some teamgame-based mods even use FFA maps.

Of course they can be used in FFA maps, but it's useless.
The map's items are not thinked for team play. Another thing, Target Location entity are thinked for team play (specially in CTF mode), they have to be placed far away each other to avoid map's location issues.

By the way, it's not very important now, in a second time, some one can place Target Location everywhere with the original .map file included in the release.

@ALL : what do you think about this fifth map ? I hope you enjoy this last (?) job :P :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 27, 2013, 01:55:48 pm
I've finally tested oa_akomdm5, and it's awesome, both gameplay and graphics, I have no complaints  :)  one suggestion - could those blue pillars heal you instead of damaging, or act as a jumppads (no real purpose, it's just cool). Or even both - add you 10 health and make you jump.
Also, two plasmaguns at the center of arena are probably a bit too powerful - you don't need to leave that arena center at all (but you also die too often there). I don't know what to put as a replacement, lightning gun is also very powerful. Maybe rocket :) or grenade launcher, or that weak shotgun. I would put just one plasmagun on the map, in place of quad damage (also, when you shooting it, that blue pillars are confuse you for plasmagun shots, so you have hard time dodging it).
Anyway, the map good as it is, I don't know whether my suggestions will improve or harm it.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 02:09:31 pm
Maybe is better to put the Quad at the center and one plasmagun in place of the Quad ?

In the center part i will place granade launcher and one ammo :P

By the way i'm waiting for other responses  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 27, 2013, 02:12:51 pm
Maybe is better to put the Quad at the center and one plasmagun in place of the Quad ?

In the center part i will place granade launcher and one ammo :P

Yes, I would like that. Grenade launcher and maybe the shotgun in the center, you can put several ammo boxes at the different corners, it won't give you much advantage anyway.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 02:20:18 pm
Maybe is better to put the Quad at the center and one plasmagun in place of the Quad ?

In the center part i will place granade launcher and one ammo :P

Yes, I would like that. Grenade launcher and maybe the shotgun in the center, you can put several ammo boxes at the different corners, it won't give you much advantage anyway.

Ehm, there are 4 shotgun in this map.....XD.....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 27, 2013, 02:23:52 pm
Ehm, there are 4 shotgun in this map.....XD.....

Oh, yes, really  ::)  then put a chaingun ammo, it's totally useless there  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 02:26:58 pm
Ehm, there are 4 shotgun in this map.....XD.....

Oh, yes, really  ::)  then put a chaingun ammo, it's totally useless there  ;D

No no, it's a great idea !!

I can place a Chaingun in this map.....mmmmm, ok i'll do it ! Thanks Pelya !
 ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on February 27, 2013, 02:32:25 pm
No, no, actually I've meant Machine Gun, when said Chaingun, sorry.
Not that huge mean rotating aircraft gun, that rips you in less than a second - the weak small gun you're respawning with.
Anyway, if you think Chaingun will fit in there - go on, add it :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 02:40:00 pm
No, no, actually I've meant Machine Gun, when said Chaingun, sorry.
Not that huge mean rotating aircraft gun, that rips you in less than a second - the weak small gun you're respawning with.
Anyway, if you think Chaingun will fit in there - go on, add it :)

 ;D ;D

I think it's a good idea to place the chaingun in the center of the map, mixed with the Quad.
I can make those items a "team", when you bring one of those items, next time randomly appear the other. No chaingun ammo  :P.

What about my custom lamps ? I have maked a good job or i can improve it ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on February 27, 2013, 03:17:16 pm
Quote
What about my custom lamps ? I have maked a good job or i can improve it ?

Best detail of the map and a nice one. The actual light-source could be a bit brighter though.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 03:36:29 pm
Quote
What about my custom lamps ? I have maked a good job or i can improve it ?

Best detail of the map and a nice one. The actual light-source could be a bit brighter though.

I'll do something about it  ;D



Update's summary:

1) Replace two shotgun with granadelauncher.
2) Remove portable objects and replace them with Chaingun/Quad Damage "teamed".
3) Put the plasmagun where before there was the Quad Damage.
4) Move the Ammo Boxes at the corner of the central room.

Other things ?

I ask because this map takes a lot of time to compile.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 27, 2013, 04:01:25 pm
Hmmm... what part takes a lot to compile? BSP, VIS, Light, BSPC?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 27, 2013, 04:12:39 pm
Hmmm... what part takes a lot to compile? BSP, VIS, Light, BSPC?

The light take too long time, i think it's because of the sky.
But no problem. I will modify the map and wait if i have to  :P :D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Moixie on February 27, 2013, 08:27:28 pm
I ask because this map takes a lot of time to compile.

I have a theory !

When I started to work on my mx1dm5 (the space map which is on the pack), I had the same problem. It needed much time (= 15 minutes) to compile, whereas it had a few brushes and a few entities compared to other maps. I had to solve the problem and I finally solved it !

Here is where my problem was: There are 2 kind of brushes: sculpturals and details.
-> When you look at a sculptural brush, you only load the brush itself.
-> When you look at a detail brush, you load the brush and all brushes behind it.
* By default, every created brush is a structural brush except curves (I guess that a transparent or invisible texture acts like a detail brush, even if it's a sculptural (I'm not sure)).

For instance, there is a big pillar in the center of your map.
-> It is a sculptural brush, you only load it when you look at it. When you move, you load new brushes: the ones which were hidden by the pillar.
-> It is a detail brush, you load it and the brushes hidden behind it. When you move, you don't have to load brushes which were hidden behind the pillar because you already loaded them.
To sum up, You get better performances if the pillar is a detail brush.

Another thing, if there is "nothing" behind the brush: like you can't load this "nothing", the map leaks if the brush is a detail. Every wall in contact with "nothing" must be sculptural. ("nothing" is what is behind the map itself, I don't know if there is a special noun. I don't even know how to explain what it is precisely, I hope you understand what I'm talking about)

So, as a general rule: "every brush should be detail brush, except the brushes in contact with the nothing."

From this rule: in a space map, every brush, except the skybox, should be detail brush. My map needed 15 minutes to compile, now it needs 40 seconds. (How to make detail brushes: Select brushes -> "Brush" (tool bar) -> Make detail (CTRL+M) )


I checked the .map (converted thanks to your .bsp) all brushes except curves are stucturals. You should try to make detail of all brushes except the skybox. I hope it'll work.

ps: I learnt it some months ago, I haven't much experience and can't guarantee that all I said is right, at least that's how I understood it.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 28, 2013, 01:45:33 am
@Moixie. From your description, it seems detail brushes do not count for creating vis portals. If this is so (I don't know!), it would mean that you may have lower framerate (very slightly or important, depending from the map) because the renderer may elaborate more "hidden" objects...

@Akom: did you notice that, during map loading, the "OpenArena Community Mappack" text in your levelshots becomes overwrited by the "loading mapname" text?
PS: I suppose levelshots have to comply with gplv2, too.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on February 28, 2013, 05:58:46 am
A way to make maps compile faster is, if you have a modern processor with multiple cores (separate graphs for "CPU use" in Task Manager), to set q3map to use more threads.

In Q3Radiant, File -> Project settings -> Menu commands.
The most "completed" elaboration there is "bsp_fullvis (light -extra)", right?
I added a new one there, and I called it "bsp_fullvis (light -extra) Multithread"... I copy-pasted the command line contained in the original one to the new one, and in the new one I modified the "-threads" option of q3map from "1" to an higher value (e.g. 2, 3, 4 or 6... it depends from how many "cores" your machine has got, and how many of them do you want to use for this purpose). Please notice you have to change it in two places of the command line.

Then, trying to compile with the new option (more threads), I noticed much higher CPU usage in Task Manager, and much quicker compiling than before.



A strange thing is that, for some reason, when I had copy-pasted and modified the command line for the new compiling option through the GUI, it saved only a part of the line, and so then it was not able to compile because various options were missing. I have no idea about the reason, I suppose some Q3Radiant bug.
Anyway, I workarounded this by manually editing \Quake III Arena\BASEQ3\scripts\quake.qe4 file: I added the complete command line there, and it worked.


I suppose similar options are probably applicable also in GTKRadiant and NETRadiant... I suppose we should write somewhere in the wiki how to apply this trick in the various editors... this may save a lot of computing time to mappers that have good machines! Neon_Knight, what do you think?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on February 28, 2013, 10:48:38 am

@Moixie: Why decompile the .bsp when you have the original .map file ?? If you see in "scripts" folder you find it  :P  (all my map for this project have the original .map file in it)

@Moixie(2): 15 minutes is too much time ? This map compile in more than one hour !!!
Muahahaha !! I have to change my old computer....  :P :P ;D

@Gig: Sorry, i haven't calculated this eventuality, i will fix it.  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: sago007 on February 28, 2013, 11:49:34 am
So, as a general rule: "every brush should be detail brush, except the brushes in contact with the nothing."
I disagree.

This will lower compile time by reducing vis. But reduced vis may also reduce frame rate and cause higher network load.

Any brush that can block a players view in some way should be structural. This includes internal walls, floors and non-transparent pathways. Transparent brushes must always be detail.
The compiler can also slightly optimize structural brushes (although the compiler has VERY limited optimization capabilities). 

If vis compile time is a problem then compile your tests without vis. Depending on the map layout vis may be next to useless anyway especially for space maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on February 28, 2013, 01:32:48 pm
Seems like compiling is similar as  PVS-culling. How longer generating takes, the more performance is being graded upwards.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 28, 2013, 02:57:00 pm
Depends the case and how much the map is optimized editor-side. There are maps which takes hours to compile only to generate an unplayable single-digit-FPS mess.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Peter Silie on February 28, 2013, 03:43:43 pm
Reminds me on one of my maps :D

Anyway: i made a little progress today, but will not be able to be in time for tomorrows next beta :(


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on February 28, 2013, 04:10:34 pm
Reminds me on one of my maps :D

Anyway: i made a little progress today, but will not be able to be in time for tomorrows next beta :(


I don't think there is another beta for 2 weeks.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack)

Or am i reading your message wrong?

@Compiling
Only if i use the bounce 8 radiosity stuff (which i honestly cannot see...) will my maps take longer than 3 minutes to compile.
Indeed using 'fast vis' its done allmost instantly, but that means all vertices that are in the view frustum (hidden or not) will always be rendered. Which can be seen in r_speeds verts.

You might also use hint burshes to get more fps AND lower compile times.
http://tremmapping.pbworks.com/w/page/22453205/Understanding%20Vis%20and%20Hint%20Brushes (http://tremmapping.pbworks.com/w/page/22453205/Understanding%20Vis%20and%20Hint%20Brushes)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on February 28, 2013, 09:32:27 pm
Yep, next beta comes in march 15th.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 01, 2013, 01:59:44 am
0Kelvin (who is of you? Moixie?) just created this page on the wiki.
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Speed_up_visibility_calculations

Could you please take a look to that page (especially Sago)? Thank you...



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 01, 2013, 04:32:26 am
0kelvin was a banned user who blanked all of his posts. Too bad, they had a lot of valuable info.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 01, 2013, 10:43:04 am
I have modified the map and going to compile it.
With some modify at the polygons i hope this time it's lighter than before.

I have found a couple of issues and fix it.

Some weapons replacement will improve the playability, let me know.

.......stay tuned......

;)

EDIT: i think someone can make a ctf map like CTF-Suspense (http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/VCTF-Suspense) without vehicles....  :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 01, 2013, 12:53:51 pm
LAST (?) Update !!  ;D

Removed the Lightning Gun and placed the Plasmagun where before was the Quad.

Added the Chaingun mixed with the Quad Damage at the center of the pillars.

Now the custom lamps are more brightest.

Download in the attachment  :P :D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 01, 2013, 01:30:56 pm
I was wondering... what about if you take the DM-Peak (http://www.game-maps.net/downloads/ut2004/maps/dm/screens/dm-tdb-peak.jpg) way and place something like a mountain below that structure? And, since we're at it, something which sustains that Plasma platform.

The Chaingun could be switched with the Plasma, since that's the place of the Superweapon, and it's a pretty risky place to get a weapon.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 01, 2013, 02:35:11 pm
I was wondering... what about if you take the DM-Peak (http://www.game-maps.net/downloads/ut2004/maps/dm/screens/dm-tdb-peak.jpg) way and place something like a mountain below that structure? And, since we're at it, something which sustains that Plasma platform.

The Chaingun could be switched with the Plasma, since that's the place of the Superweapon, and it's a pretty risky place to get a weapon.

The switch between the Plasma and the Chaingun it's possible and easy, but seriously you want me to place a mountain below the map ? It have the "rocks" below and it's too big for place a moutain, now the compile time is 40 minutes..... :RIP:.... :P :P

P.S.: The UT map you mean have a big rock below itself and it's squared at the bottom, i think my way is better, but i wait other comments about it. :P

I can think to something to place below the Plasma platform.......  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 02, 2013, 07:04:30 am
Sorry for the double post, but after lot of brush work, i've finally modified & recompile this map.

I hope you like it and please, if you find a bug tell me.



Now the Quad Damage is in the center of the map alone and tha Chaingun is in the external dangerous place.

I have mixed the Plasmagun with the Shotgun, hope you like it for playability.

Just for the record, here is the time of compiling:
Quote
writing C:/Quake3/baseq3/maps/oa_akomdm5.bsp 7170 seconds elapsed
completed.
Run time was 2 hours, 1 minutes and 19 seconds

Download the attachment for the new version.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 02, 2013, 07:13:15 am
I've tried to compile oa_akomdm5 on my work PC, it took more fhan 1.5 hours, and I've aborted compilation.
It's not the slowest PC around - Core i5 650, 3.2Ghz, with 4 CPU threads and 4Gb RAM, q3map2 process used 2Gb RAM.
So it's not your PC Akom, the map is just big.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 02, 2013, 07:24:18 am
I've tried to compile oa_akomdm5 on my work PC, it took more fhan 1.5 hours, and I've aborted compilation.
It's not the slowest PC around - Core i5 650, 3.2Ghz, with 4 CPU threads and 4Gb RAM, q3map2 process used 2Gb RAM.
So it's not your PC Akom, the map is just big.

Wow ! Lucky for us that FPS remain acceptable  ;D :P

Enjoy the last version and tell me. The flames hurts the player and enough. No health, no jump.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 02, 2013, 07:48:35 am
Updated oa_akomdm2 (23/2) and oa_akomdm5 (3/3) on the server. Unfortunately, I cannot edit the wiki to add these changes. -.-
It seems that the static server of the wiki is pretty unresponsive.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 02, 2013, 07:57:24 am
Updated oa_akomdm2 (23/2) and oa_akomdm5 (3/3) on the server. Unfortunately, I cannot edit the wiki to add these changes. -.-
It seems that the static server of the wiki is pretty unresponsive.

Unfortunately i've found (now) two graphic bugs..... too many deformed polygons i think.....
.....i'm fixing it..... tell me if you find another issues.....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 02, 2013, 09:54:14 am
Isn't there the medkit anymore?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 02, 2013, 10:05:39 am
@GiG: i quote myself, i've removed the portable objects (both) in the old version of this map.

Update's summary:

1) Replace two shotgun with granadelauncher.
2) Remove portable objects and replace them with Chaingun/Quad Damage "teamed".
3) Put the plasmagun where before there was the Quad Damage.
4) Move the Ammo Boxes at the corner of the central room.


Have you tried the last version ? What do you think ?
Have you noticed bugs ?

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 02, 2013, 04:44:15 pm
I've tried the new oa_akomdm5, I did not notice any gameplay issues - it's smooth and the weapons are balanced well, there are no camp spots, it's enjoyable to play on this version of map.
I would make all the lamps 1.5x brighter, sometimes the bots can hide inside the shadows in the main room (and I did increase screen brightness a bit). But that's minor complaint, I think the map is already good for the release.

And after release, I gonna modify the map myself, to make those blue things heal you 1 health, and throw to the nearest blue thing, so you can bunny-hop them without touching buttons and have 200 health in 3 minutes, and you will definitely look stupid while doing that, mwahaha


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 02, 2013, 08:24:04 pm
One last thing: if you played the map Sanctuary, you'll see that when the Redeemer spawns, there's a signal all over the map. I was thinking... what if you place a trigger so every time a player enters into an area, a sound can be heard alongside of the map? That way, other players can be noticed that someone is trying to obtain the Chaingun.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 03, 2013, 02:07:24 am
And after release, I gonna modify the map myself, to make those blue things heal you 1 health, and throw to the nearest blue thing, so you can bunny-hop them without touching buttons and have 200 health in 3 minutes, and you will definitely look stupid while doing that, mwahaha

LOL !  :D :D



@Neon_Knight (1): Ehm, i don't have UT3 and i can not see the map, i've watched some screenshots online (not many really) and some videos on Youtube, but many videos are dark and i can not see the redeemer, where is ? Can you give me some screenshots of the UT3 map (in PM ), maybe i have to modify again my oa_akomdm5.

@Neon_Knight (2): .....but the Chaingun is visible from all players. Who cares, i'll do it !!  ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 03, 2013, 05:31:11 am
Well, even if they aren't tagged that way, for all intent and purposes, the Nailgun, the Chaingun and the Prox Launcher are considered superweapons, alongside the BFG.

If you want, I can include that effect so you can see for yourself. :P

Is the last akomdm5 the most recent version, and does it include the .map file?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 03, 2013, 05:56:37 am
Hi all of you  ;D

After some brush job and various things, here is the last version of the fifth map:
Download the attachment.

The bridge now is with wood and some brushes are deleted.
The center room seems illuminated as good.

@Neon_Knight: inside the "scripts" folder you can find the original .map file.  I've inserted the alarm sound when someone try to keep the Chaingun, tell me if you like it.

@ALL: The "stone robots" are also free to use, if you like it you can use it !  :P :D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 03, 2013, 06:26:47 am
D/Ling your map.

Also, remember what I've said about your letters? Well, searching in this forum, I've found a link to a place with GPL fonts.
Here're some OA-compatible designs you might like:
http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=Neon+Knight+is+in+Action+!!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2 (http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=Neon+Knight+is+in+Action+!!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2)
http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=GiG%27s+Nightmare+!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2 (http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=GiG%27s+Nightmare+!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2)
http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=FRAG+BASTARD+!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2 (http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=FRAG+BASTARD+!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2)
http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=MOIXIE+WAS+HERE!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2 (http://www.dafont.com/top.php?text=MOIXIE+WAS+HERE!&fpp=50&af=on&l%5B%5D=10&period=2)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 03, 2013, 06:31:22 am
More lamps make the central room better, thank you. I think the map can be released as it is now.
The robots have the same problem as a cockpit - they look good, but you don't have many opportunities to see them.
Maybe you should make that bridge from glass/forcefield, or somehow make it transparent, but then it will conflict with the style of the map. You can try to make it curved, so you'll get to see the robots when passing that curve. Or you can just replace some pillars with a robot :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 03, 2013, 06:57:15 am
More lamps make the central room better, thank you. I think the map can be released as it is now.
The robots have the same problem as a cockpit - they look good, but you don't have many opportunities to see them.
Maybe you should make that bridge from glass/forcefield, or somehow make it transparent, but then it will conflict with the style of the map. You can try to make it curved, so you'll get to see the robots when passing that curve. Or you can just replace some pillars with a robot :)

No problem, they are only decorative. I think i will use they in another map  :P

@Neon_Knight: Thank you, but seems that GiG is contrary (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46305#msg46305) to put "easter eggs" like this in our map. It's not a big problem anyway....

EDIT:
@Pelya: Finally i've build a skybox for oa_akomdm2, taked from here:
Code:
http://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic1112a/
(Tell me if it is GPL2V and if it can be used in our mappack)

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 03, 2013, 01:02:09 pm
That sky looks good, I would tone down the image brightness a bit, so only the most bright stars would be visible.

The images from this spacetelescope.org are covered by Creative Commons - Attribution license (http://www.spacetelescope.org/copyright/), which should be fine to use in GPL-ed projects, it allows modification and commercial use, and only requires name of the author to be mentioned in credits.
@Fromhell: could you please clarify, if you allow CC-BY-licensed works to be uploaded to OA?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 03, 2013, 04:14:03 pm
Hi all.  ;D

In a creative moment my mind turned crazy and i've started a CTF map for this mappack.

This is a first look version, polygons/textures and also skybox are temporary.

Let me know what do you think about it.
And please, tell me how to insert various OA modes in this map  :P :P

@GiG: Yes, in this map i will insert the Target Location  ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on March 03, 2013, 06:23:02 pm
Oh no, not another redo of that unreal-map. Face-capture on Sauerbraten was already worse enough.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 04, 2013, 12:16:53 am
Well, there's no version of this map in OA, so it's okay to redo it. BTW there should be windows for snipers in those towers.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 04, 2013, 02:43:37 am
Just to clarify... I'm not against easter eggs in general. But I didn't like that "Gig's nightmare" thing. If you want to place other text, of course you can use it.
Of course, players that do not follow the forums may think "Who is Neon_Knight?".... unfortunately, we cannot use a dopefish image as easter egg, because it's copyrighted.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on March 04, 2013, 05:40:37 am
Well, there's no version of this map in OA, so it's okay to redo it. BTW there should be windows for snipers in those towers.

It's not a good thing to create another "bases" map. Why? As those only give campers (as you call "snipers")  a chance to play (they are actually being forced to do so as running around is equal to dieing due the lack of cover).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 04, 2013, 09:49:38 am
Just to clarify... I'm not against easter eggs in general. But I didn't like that "Gig's nightmare" thing. If you want to place other text, of course you can use it.
Of course, players that do not follow the forums may think "Who is Neon_Knight?".... unfortunately, we cannot use a dopefish image as easter egg, because it's copyrighted.

Ok, sorry i misunderstand :P
....but you're right, this package will be released for all the OA community and most af all not know this forum.

@Suicizer: Dont you like the idea of this "Base" map ? If you have doubts about snipers, i can make a trick in the map that kill players that camp in the raigun position :P :D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on March 04, 2013, 12:41:27 pm
Quote
@Suicizer: Dont you like the idea of this "Base" map ? If you have doubts about snipers, i can make a trick in the map that kill players that camp in the raigun position :P :D

;)

I certainly am not a fan of campers (neither doing so myself for a while) as it kills the flow of a map. It does not provide a current play which constantly changes that causes for different situations, rather it keeps looping over and over again (doesn't matter who kills who, as long as 1 camps).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 04, 2013, 01:31:27 pm
then remove railgun from this map, or replace all weapons with railguns :D if you camp, you'll get sniped down, because you're not moving.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 04, 2013, 02:02:49 pm
then remove railgun from this map, or replace all weapons with railguns :D if you camp, you'll get sniped down, because you're not moving.

Maybe an idea....  :D
...railgun for all !!!  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Dancar on March 04, 2013, 06:54:31 pm
Well, there's no version of this map in OA, so it's okay to redo it. BTW there should be windows for snipers in those towers.

I will not put windows if I were him: you want to snipe, you stay on top of the towers, without protections and with the risk to fall down.

A speed power-up could help flag-catchers?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 04, 2013, 07:30:56 pm
How much feasible would be the use of the Grappling Hook in that map?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 05, 2013, 02:00:24 am
How much feasible would be the use of the Grappling Hook in that map?
Please don't, Grappling Hook is not supported on Android build (actually, I don't know, because I've never tried it, but if it requires dedicated button to activate - it's not supported).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 05, 2013, 02:08:57 am
How much feasible would be the use of the Grappling Hook in that map?
Please don't, Grappling Hook is not supported on Android build (actually, I don't know, because I've never tried it, but if it requires dedicated button to activate - it's not supported).

Don't worry before testing.
While some implementations of the hook in some Q3 MODS (e.g. in Alternate Fire or CorkScrew, IIRC) do use a dedicated button for it, the implementation of OA uses it as a standard weapon.
You have to select if from the weapons list, shoot to attach where you want, and only then you can select another weapon to attack enemies. To detach from your location, you have to switch to the grapple again. So it's not so easy to use as the implementation of some mods, but it does not require a dedicated button.
You can test it by running Elimination/CTF Elimination/Last man standing mode (or any other mode with g_elimination 1), with elimination_grapple 1.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on March 07, 2013, 08:56:27 am
New DM map, oajgdm3alpha:

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm3alpha.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm3alpha.pk3)

I know there are still some graphical glitches in there, i will sort them out. I am however looking for feedback on the gameplay:
Are there area's that need more work?
Is there too much traffic one a specific place (by human players) (i know bots converge on the red armor like a bunch of zombies, i'll look into it)
I've again elected to put no rg in there, because in my view the map is too open for it, but in my mind it was a close call, do you guys agree or should the rg be in there?

(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm3alpha.jpg)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 07, 2013, 10:27:38 am
Added oajgdm3 and the updated oa_akomdm5 to the D/L server. I'll check if I can update the wiki now.

This being said, I might have to leave my FFA maps out of the pack, seeing that we have now a lot of them, and more CTF-based maps are needed...

This weekend I'll work on my CTF contribution, then.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Suicizer on March 07, 2013, 04:24:34 pm
New DM map, oajgdm3alpha:


Do me a favor and pick an easier (and more proper) name.

Why maps on OA (nearly) always have to be shortcutted words with no actual meaning (as like "dwnldfknmp_dm382_v28.pk3")? Is this a lack of inspiration or so?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 07, 2013, 04:28:10 pm
Ask the mappers themselves.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on March 07, 2013, 05:30:27 pm
New DM map, oajgdm3alpha:


Do me a favor and pick an easier (and more proper) name.

Why maps on OA (nearly) always have to be shortcutted words with no actual meaning (as like "dwnldfknmp_dm382_v28.pk3")? Is this a lack of inspiration or so?

Alpha is a suffix that will eventually be dropped (in the finished/polished/final version)...then its just oajgdm3; oa (Open Arena) jg (Jan Groothuijse (me)) dm (Deathmatch) 3, it all does a certain meaning,
The oa prefix may seem redundant, but q3jgdm1 and oajgdm1 are almost the same map, except one works in oa and the other in q3. The personal prefix gives me a namespace to avoid clashes with other mappers. Its longname will be "Subdivision", but that would be too generic for a filename in my opinion, and oajg_subdivision would be annoying to type in the console.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 07, 2013, 06:16:19 pm
Also, you cannot have map name longer than 15 characters, because it will be drawn badly in UI. "am_underworks2" is pretty much as long as you can get. That's another reason why mappers love random short names.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 08, 2013, 01:51:10 am
@all: I was thinking that it may be nice to have a "double identity" map: partially "space" and partially not, just like god_infinitum map (see http://www.mapraider.com/maps/openarena/5862/god_infinitum). Does someone wanna try doing a such thing?

@jangroothuijse: I quickly tried the map. Nice, and it also seems more playable than the previous one.  :) It somehow reminds me about pul1ctf. Although the extensive use of curved surfaces, it seems the framerate is not bad.  :)
I noticed a place where the texture change on the floor looks a little strange, and another one where I wonder if it may be possible to have the texture on two sections of the wall to better coincide (see attached screenshots).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 08, 2013, 12:48:10 pm
It has been past some time since the last time I visited this forum and I am happy to see that the project is going on very well. :)

I saw the oajgdm3alpha and oa_akomdm5, I begin with the first one:
jangroothuijse, by seeing your new map of you and the previous one I saw that there is a certain mapping-style. It looks simple and nice.

Things I would change:
-in the area of yellow armor there is only a shotgun and the next weapon from there is a bit too far away-> place a weapon there somewhere
-near red armor btw. above lightning gun btw. walking up the curve I would maybe add another weapon (but I think you are right: no RG)
- look exactly at texture at big jump near red armor...
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0110.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=268&u=12418615)
- what about adding  a "flight"-item in the map? ::)



Ok now about oa_akomdm5:
Nice atmospheric map, not so common in OA. =)
There aren't any particulary things here that I would change, well done!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 09, 2013, 01:42:05 am
@Adriano: Thank You !  ;D ;D

@jangroothuijse: Absolutely a good map, OA need some cool map like this one.
Unfortunately some texture-bug have to be solved, but you already know it, right ?  :P

One dubt: the shiny effect on some textures maybe slow down some FPS in old machine.

@ALL: about my ctf map "Face", i'm fighting with the missing textures and build/erase some polygons  :-\ ..... no promise, but maybe i can give you a first look version in some hours.....maybe.... :P :D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 09, 2013, 02:40:43 am
oajgdm3alpha: the red floor is big and very repetitive, please add some distracting details, guiding lines or arrows or some garbage. Many walls are also a huge curved piece of the same texture. Maybe add some tiles or windows, or blood marks, or, well, anything.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 09, 2013, 03:59:48 am
Hi everybody.

I have to create the custom teleporter like in the original UT map and i can give you  a playable version soon........ stay tuned....

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 09, 2013, 05:20:03 am
(http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/33/70/40/shot0049.jpg)

The first version looked like some ancient jungle temple or some ziccurat, and gave impression of ritual fight.

The last version looks very much like old ugly Soviet-era buildings, with no windows, made of boring concrete. This could be scaled-up heating plant, or garage complex, if it would have doors.
Although most such buildings are made of bricks.

Arts and Cultural Center in Kiev (although it has at least some windows):
(http://rock.kiev.ua/inf/club/kpi.jpg)
(http://perecrestok.kiev.ua/cross_images/concerto_halls/CKI_NTU_KPI_01.jpg)

This one is in Berlin:
(http://germania-online.ru/uploads/pics/500Steinpilz.jpg)

Somewhere in Ukraine:
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/2711/utn-zot.0/0_5491_1421b584_M.jpg)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 09, 2013, 06:35:57 am
For the oajgdm3alpha I wasn't so concrete, so take a look now at attachment...


(EDIT: for LG I think place b is better
& flight-item-respawawntime=150seconds maybe?)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 09, 2013, 01:13:30 pm
Hi all.

Unfortunately my video-card is gone  :-[ :-[
Now, i'm UP with a Riva TNT2  ::) and i can't try anything.

Lucky for me, the "first look version" was ready and i was testing it when the video-card is burned.... :'(

I know that is a couple of bugs, but now i can't do anything.
The teleporter in the blue base dont work, it's just to see how it look.

Next week i'll buy another video-card and continue to edit this map.

;)

P.S.: Download the attachment:  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 11, 2013, 01:21:04 am
Taken a look. Nice lights again.  :)
I think you may select a (at least slightly) different name than "facing worlds" (it's the same exact name from UT, right?).

You already noticed the flickering textures under the blue base courtyard, right?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 11, 2013, 11:02:19 am
Taken a look. Nice lights again.  :)
I think you may select a (at least slightly) different name than "facing worlds" (it's the same exact name from UT, right?).

You already noticed the flickering textures under the blue base courtyard, right?

Yes, i've already noticed that bug, i've fixed it. I've also fixed the flame to center they on the "pillars".
With the video-card  on my PC now i can edit but i can't compile the map...... :-[.....

How about the custom teleporter ? It's ok ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 12, 2013, 01:41:47 am
How about the custom teleporter ? It's ok ?
Which teleporter? I can see a strange "mirror-like" thing in one of the bases... but it's too black and it seems to do absolutely nothing.

For this map, can you do a try placing one or two hooks? I would like to test that...

@All:
About teleporters, it may be nice if someone of you guys may change one of the teleporters in his map with a "portal" like the one in oa_dm5 ("the cistern" map), where you can see the other side (possibly trying to do not exceed with polygons from the other side to show).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 12, 2013, 01:46:15 am
Tried CTF map - the area between the bases is too small, it was much bigger in UT map,l. The bases thselves are way too big - it takes more time to walk around the base than to run to another base and grab the flag.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 12, 2013, 02:48:48 pm

Update !

Unfortunately my actual video-card suck a lot and i can not compile anything  :-[
....but thanks to Adriano, you can enjoy the map !! (when he compile it)
I have sended him the last version i've finished this evening, i think tomorrow he can give me some suggestion about it.

Things added:

1) Added some teleporters in red and blue base + red and blue roof.
2) Added grappling hook at the center of the map.
3) Now the map is longer than before, the central part take more time  :D
4) Added shotgun and rocket launcher in the bases.
5) Added one railgun for each base plus a couple of ammo, slugs and bullet. On the top obviously  :P
6) Some other stuff.

Again, thanks Adriano for helping me (and the community)  ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 12, 2013, 05:31:57 pm
Well, I did a mistake on choosing the right compiling options maybe and I failed in shader for sure, so that the map looks likes that ( I am sorry for that much failing :RIP: ) :

(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0113.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=271&u=12418615)

(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0111.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=269&u=12418615)

(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0114.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=272&u=12418615)

(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0112.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=270&u=12418615)

But at least I hope it is enough to test some things...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 13, 2013, 03:03:38 am
Okay, I tested it. The external part of the buildings is too dark, but probably it is the problem Adriano mentioned.

I can however say that the map is nice, but:
- Are you sure you want to keep the railgun there?
- What about placing more doors at the sides of the buildings, at the lower level at least? At the moment, there is no reason to turn around the building, and it's too easy to shoot at someone who is forced to pass through a single passage! In this optic, also the "green paths" may be "forked" to reach also the corners of the courtyards.
- One would expect those teleporters green texture to be somehow animated (by the way, their design is OK, IMHO)
- I think that the teleporters that bring you at different floors should be of different colors, to more easily identify them. Of course, the teleporter on that floor should match that color.
- One would need some more health and armor bonuses, considering a single railgun hit can kill you.

@Adriano: there is something strange in your screenshots. Apart the fact that one of them seems to show the jump-pad from Q3 instead of from OA... how did you manage to show that oa-branded yellow shield-like thing in the place of the red flag? Did you use some mod? I may have already seen that before, but I don't remember where...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 13, 2013, 04:33:27 am
@Adriano: there is something strange in your screenshots. Apart the fact that one of them seems to show the jump-pad from Q3 instead of from OA... how did you manage to show that oa-branded yellow shield-like thing in the place of the red flag? Did you use some mod? I may have already seen that before, but I don't remember where...
I have just some pk3 extra placed in my baseoa-folder. E.g. zz-bioFlags.pk3 from BioToxic is the new flag and the jumppad is maybe from a q3-map?


About map:
> Ofc because the skybox doesn't work for now, it doesn't illuminate the outdoor-part.
> If think Gig mean the same.... (when you look at my 3rd picture uploaded above)... you can just stay on upper level and camp easily behind the door.
> I think the latest modified 'Facing Worlds' looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7NAYUB1vjw (just to compare),
 but I think it is ok to make some other changes as there are already some. (also see that: http://ws.q3df.org/map/facer2d/ )
> I think some health-powerups is missing and plasmagun
> As said by Gig, there could be another entrance from the side of the base + the passage around the base seems too small.
> I would overwork a bit the middle passage:
a) in original the middle part is like a mountain when you look from side: http://www.ukdk-clan.co.uk/UT3query/pics2/DM-FacingWorlds.jpg ...so you can only see the enemy when he passes the middle part of the map
b) in Akoms version I like that there are more ways, but it could be a bit thicker on some places cause it is easy to fail with all that up and down. Make it easy. =)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 13, 2013, 10:32:13 am

@GiG: 1) What about the grappling Hook ? Have you tested how it work ? You can find them at the center in the external passages.
2) Maybe i can create another passage in the back of the tower.
3) Of course there are only few objects, it's a beta, just to try it, i'm still working on it. Thanks to your (and of all users) suggestions it will be very cool i think.

@Neon_Knight: I'm not sure i can be ready for the next beta, maybe a new PC will come for friday, but i'm not sure....... sorry....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 13, 2013, 11:19:16 am
If the problem is your CTF map, if you want, I can compile your map. The only thing I'm going to need is the q3map2/bspc switches you use.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 13, 2013, 11:34:22 am
I tried the grappling hook, it seems quite useful here. I'm curious to know if bots would use it...

I'm not sure about why Adriano doesn't like the current grass path different height...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 13, 2013, 12:54:39 pm
If the problem is your CTF map, if you want, I can compile your map. The only thing I'm going to need is the q3map2/bspc switches you use.

For compiling of my CTF map i have recruited Adriano  ;D  .....
.....no problem for me to send the .map file to you too, but first of all i need Adriano's confirmation if he has time problems.

@GiG: i dont think BOTs use the grappling hook, i have never see them use it.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 14, 2013, 03:38:52 pm
@All: You don't have any problem if I move this deadline towards Monday, isn't it?
Tomorrow's the second beta release, but I want to make sure that everything is up-to-date.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 14, 2013, 04:03:55 pm
@All: You don't have any problem if I move this deadline towards Monday, isn't it?
Tomorrow's the second beta release, but I want to make sure that everything is up-to-date.

Monday may be better i think, but for "everything" you mean all the maps or just the latest ?
I mean theese:
- oa_akomctf1, by Akom74 (..waiting for Adriano .. ;D .. :P .. )
- oa_akomdm5, by Akom74
- oajgdm3, by jangroothuijse
- am_bioxide, by Neon_Knight

P.S.: Can't wait to try your map Neon_Knight, if my new PC come in time in my house  :P
P.P.S.: I've forgot to recompile the last version of oa_akomdm1 and you still have the old one, if i can i will recompile and give you the official release version.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on March 14, 2013, 05:19:11 pm
@All: You don't have any problem if I move this deadline towards Monday, isn't it?
Tomorrow's the second beta release, but I want to make sure that everything is up-to-date.

For me that would be perfect, i may have been getting a bit behind on fixing my maps.

@All: thnx for the feedback btw, it will be processed this weekend.

@Akom unfortunately for me oajgdm2 and oajgctf1 also need some more work...so expect updated versions of those too


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 14, 2013, 06:23:55 pm
Monday may be better i think, but for "everything" you mean all the maps or just the latest ?
I mean theese:
- oa_akomctf1, by Akom74 (..waiting for Adriano .. ;D .. :P .. )
- oa_akomdm5, by Akom74
- oajgdm3, by jangroothuijse
- am_bioxide, by Neon_Knight

P.S.: Can't wait to try your map Neon_Knight, if my new PC come in time in my house  :P
P.P.S.: I've forgot to recompile the last version of oa_akomdm1 and you still have the old one, if i can i will recompile and give you the official release version.

 ;)
Every confirmed map for the pack will be released in beta 2. Both new to this beta and those which appeared in beta 1.
It would be nice if you can do that, otherwise, I can compile maps as well. :P Just give me the switches you use in q3map2/bspc, and I'll do the rest.

For me that would be perfect, i may have been getting a bit behind on fixing my maps.

@All: thnx for the feedback btw, it will be processed this weekend.

@Akom unfortunately for me oajgdm2 and oajgctf1 also need some more work...so expect updated versions of those too
I'll wait for the updates.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 14, 2013, 06:24:09 pm
If the problem is your CTF map, if you want, I can compile your map. The only thing I'm going to need is the q3map2/bspc switches you use.

For compiling of my CTF map i have recruited Adriano  ;D  .....
.....no problem for me to send the .map file to you too, but first of all i need Adriano's confirmation if he has time problems.
Hey it is no problem.... the problem is when you have nobody that helps you... so it is more than ok for me if Neon_Knight just tries it out, too. But thanks, it was gentleman-like. ;)

Well however, I tried to compile again all (now without extra pk3's) and skybox and teleporter (moving texture) works, BUT skybox doesn't illuminate, so it remains still dark outdoor.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 15, 2013, 01:57:41 am
If jan does require some other days, I suppose the deadline for beta2 could be moved to the end of the next week... maybe by that time Akom may have fixed his problems...

However, I don't understand how can the compiling be affected by having a certain video card instead of another one.
By the way, Akom... did you uninstall the old card drivers, before installing those of the new card?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 15, 2013, 05:04:10 am
If jan does require some other days, I suppose the deadline for beta2 could be moved to the end of the next week... maybe by that time Akom may have fixed his problems...

However, I don't understand how can the compiling be affected by having a certain video card instead of another one.
By the way, Akom... did you uninstall the old card drivers, before installing those of the new card?
I'm definitely not against moving the second beta deadline to the end of the next week as well, but by doing that we're going to have less time for polish, unless we move the final release's deadlines a week later.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 15, 2013, 05:27:02 am
Well, of course the final release should be shifted, too. It should have already been shifted when we postponed the first beta...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: G One on March 15, 2013, 06:38:07 am
Hi guys.
Sorry, i'm not really operative now because i'm busy with my work but fortunately sometimes i have the time for test maps and take a look at this thread.
I agree with you, if this can help, i think that the beta and final release date should be shifted.
My theory is work calmly and deliver a final product stable and beautiful, so don't look at the calendar, take your time!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 15, 2013, 07:31:40 am
It's okay for me to shift release date, it's not like we having some sort of deadline. I've been busy lately, sorry for slow replies.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 15, 2013, 07:48:28 am
Neon_Knight, in your PM to us, you told that "for the sake of releaseness, that would be the last deadline change.".

About this, I want to add this.
Let's consider that:
- At 0.8.8 release, Fromhell stated that there will not be other 0.8.x releases. But then the works for a 0.8.8-2 hotfix started, but that hotfix has not been released yet, after a year. So I don't know if that hotfix will be released; it may become a 0.8.9 maybe?
- 0.9.0 is expected in case of Q3A texture compatibility version is completed. I have no idea about how this job is going, but I fear it's no progressing at all.
- OA3 will require years of work.
Hence, this mappack looks like will be the only "official" OpenArena upgrade in a quite long time.

So, my idea is to take all the time needed to polish it. A short deadline isn't useful. You are right saying that we have to keep the mappack at reasonable size... so I'm not telling you to add 10 more maps to those already sheduled.... I'm telling you let's take the time needed to make those maps good (optionally adding one or two more if we wish).

PS: I'm working on a map, too... I hope I can give you a first beta in the next week! At this moment, I'm working with bot roaming... Then I will have to retexturize it a lot, due to the fact I did it in Q3Radiant...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 15, 2013, 11:14:56 am
Happy Update !!  ;D ;D

My new PC is in my house now, i have to copy all the Q3A and OA folder to the new system and try if it all work.

Thanks again Adriano to try, no problem man, GTKradiant some times give me problems too, but maybe i'm doing something wrong.....XD.... :P

@Neon_Knight: Maybe this week-end i can give something to you all about my CTF map. Question: the CTF maps are thinked for all the others team gametype ?

@GiG: Can't wait to see your map  ;D

No problem to shift the release date of the beta2.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 15, 2013, 11:47:32 am
If you want to add support for all the CTF-based gametypes to your CTF maps, then no problem.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Moixie on March 15, 2013, 03:32:34 pm
I tried to work on several projects last weeks but I canceled all of them because I didn't like any of them. Proportions, layout, items, there was always something which didn't fit. So I decided to give a look at my archives and found one especially interesting:

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4654.0;attach=3977;image)

I started to work on it some months ago, I wanted to publish it during Halloween but I finally decided to shift its publication to the next year because I couldn't convince myself that it wasn't too bad. Then, I would like to work a bit on it to add it to the mappack. It's globally a ctf map, with 2 pirate ships as bases. Naturally, I don't think the "pirate" theme totally fits, as far as we play to Oa. So I wanted to know if I should work on it and change it, or if I should focus on the actual maps which are at their beta stage.

However, if I had to work on it again, here is what I would do:
-> I would delete the water, the batlle would happen in the space.
-> I would modify the gravity.
-> I would replace the sails by nothing (and add reactors on the back) or a balloon.
-> I would make the ships at least 3 times bigger. (I would maybe add another floor)
-> I would delete all lights, and would just put flags on both ships to show team bases.


ps: I'm not against the shifting idea.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 15, 2013, 04:02:15 pm
If you want to add support for all the CTF-based gametypes to your CTF maps, then no problem.

Theorically all gamestype are supported i think, maybe i have to insert some specific item or model ?



Update !

With my new PC i have modified the map and it takes 3 minutes and 6 seconds to compile, i'm very happy of this  ;D

It seems to me so dark than before or it's my eyes ??
By the way, now the light of the map look more realistic  :D
Do you like the rear passage with the new lights ? (i know, i have to fix them)
Bots seems to play well, but they dont use the grappling hook, i suggest to remove it.
I've added the BFG in the middle floor just to imitate the original UT map.

Tell me all it's wrong or what weapons/items you think it's better, remember however that is not a copy of the original map, it's my version.  ;D



@Moixie: Do it ! Seems interesting, but maybe you can leave the Pirates theme ? I think it's better, or maybe you can do two version of this map  ;D :P

 ;)

@ALL: Download the attachment  ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 15, 2013, 05:33:33 pm
Ok, I saw the new version and I think like now it's gonna be more to a fun-map btw. it's a mess with that railgun and BFG. =)
And I wouldn't leave out the grappling hook, it fits good in this map and is funny.
Also the backround entrance is good, but always when I try to escape from there, I feel like something disturbs me to go straight on the way.... I try always to jump on the border but it doesn't work so good and it stops me. I mean here:
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0010.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=274&u=12418615)
Maybe just make it look like that a piece of a border is broken, so you can jump better on it.

Another negative thing is that I spawn to 90% at side of the base and then the next bad thing is that there is no weapon to pick up till I am at enemy base. So speed-attacking with a picked up weapon in the hand is not possible. There should be some weapon outside for fast pick up.
Maybe the Shotgun should be placed in front of the main entrance and instead of the Shotgun you could place a yellow armor.

And I like that the heavy up-and-down passage in the middle is away. =)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Moixie on March 15, 2013, 05:56:45 pm
Hello ! I loved this map !

Bots seems to play well, but they dont use the grappling hook, i suggest to remove it.
I've added the BFG in the middle floor just to imitate the original UT map.

Tell me all it's wrong or what weapons/items you think it's better, remember however that is not a copy of the original map, it's my version.  ;D

I personally like the grapplin (and I don't give a f*ck of what bots can think about ! I'm crazy in my head !). Actually, I guess the bases are too easy to defend (if nobody uses the BFG..), there are 2 entries and from the main entry you can see all players who are going to attack from the back (the only way is to take a 90° turn just in front of the base's entry..). The grapplin can be pretty useful, as far sa you can climb on the roof and attack from the teleporters. Then, I don't remember that any Oa map uses a grapplin and your map appears to be really adapted to it, if you don't put one here I don't know where we should put one. Also, the new grapplin model rocks !
(The grapplin is maybe too slow, can we change weapons' parameters or is it on the wiki's NOTTODO list ? IMO, it wouldn't be totally absurd to change it, even if its use changes on some old q3 maps or if some defrag maps become unfinishable)
Otherwise, I have some aprehension on the BFG. I fear that it becomes a big f*ckin batlle between big f*ckin guns. Same thing about the rail, I never liked the rail and I fear that it becomes a camp batlle between campers.
A last thing about items, in my opinion there aren't enought health and armor items. There is 1 MegaHealth but nothing more. some +25 Health and +50 armor wouldn't be too much (to me).

Another thing, Thanks to the grapplin or the BFG, you can clim to the walls (I love it !) but there are only 2 weapons up there. You should had some items like Healths/armors or weapons like the plasma or the proxy mines (!). Especially on the 1rst and 2nd floor where we are almost hidden (I consider : floor 0: flag / 3rd floor: BFG / 4rth: railgun).

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4220;image)

Well, when we look from under, it looks flat, you should try to make something like a half Rhombicuboctahedron or a square cupola under the 2 bases. Then, the grass texture is quite disturbing, even if I have to say that it doesn't look bad.

Do you like the rear passage with the new lights ? (i know, i have to fix them)

I personally love these lights.

@Moixie: Do it ! Seems interesting, but maybe you can leave the Pirates theme ? I think it's better, or maybe you can do two version of this map 

Sir ! Yes, Sir !
I'll start the new version tomorrow.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 15, 2013, 06:10:19 pm
There are only two spawnpoints on each base, and they do not have any weapon around, as Adriano told. I would put two plasmaguns on each side of the base near front door, it's not too overpowered, since ypu also have BFG.
The passages between bases are too narrow for my taste, I would make them 1.5x wider.
The path around the base is boring, no items or weapons, I would put a jump pads at the sides, leading to the roof, or to the outer sidewalk with BFG.
And I would put lightning gun somewhere near back entrance, so if you killed you can grab it and defend the base.
The grappling hook is great, and it works fine on Android.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 15, 2013, 06:37:08 pm
I'm with Moixie's and pelya's oppinions.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 16, 2013, 01:16:08 am

@ALL: the last version it's not the final version, i give it to you just to try, i've created the backdoor exit in the base, the central passage now is higher and you can see your opponent only when you are on the top, some minor changes.

Of course i have to edit the map with ammo health and items, but i've asked you about it to be sure this is a good map to play CTF.

I've thinked about the weapons/items available in this map (for each base):

Weapons
--------------
1 Shotgun with two ammobox in the base.
1 Rocketlauncher with txo ammobox in the base.
1 BFG with only 20 shots (no ammo).
1 Grappling Hook
2 Plasmagun with one ammobox in the base.
2 Railgun (one on the top and one on the left side at the first floor).

Items
--------------
1 Megahealth in the center of the map.
4 health (25)
2 Yellow Armor

....other things ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 16, 2013, 04:12:52 am
Hi, Akom!
The map is nice... I think you can keep the hooks.

1) I'm still waiting for color-coded teleporters (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46570#msg46570) (depending from the floor they will bring you).  ;D  ;D
2) About the lack of weapons someone said, what about giving the shotgun to all players at respawn? It is an old habit with your maps, and I don't remember if you used that in any of this mappack maps (I think at least one or two of the maps in the package may have this feature). Of course, then you may replace the shotgun to pickup with something else.
3) Again, I suggest to "fork" the grass path in a way that reaching the lateral parts of the building is more comfortable: short additional grass paths may bring to the point highlighted in the screenshot of Adriano (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=274&u=12418615).
4) What's the strange thing in the sky, that you can see in the screenshot attached?
5) About the name oa_akomctf1... I just realized that some months ago you created a map called oaakomctf1 (without the underscore) as a tribute to the ArenaWarriors community... may that cause some confusion? I don't know.

------------------
About the map I'm working on, I can tell you it's quite "open", so I had to somehow limit my fantasy and to do not exceed in details, to keep the framerate good, because vis portals cannot be of much help there (well, also in your map, r_showtris shows almost the complete map also from behind a building). When I willl post the first beta, I will need your help for suggestions to how to have it not simply looking like a giant box.
I haven't find a name for it yet. It wants to recall some kind of archeological site, and its openess was initially thought for Elimination (Clan Arena)/Last Man Standing. I would like a name that may somehow fit the environment and the gametype, but I have problems finding one (does "Archeological Elimination" sound bad or senseless?). Maybe you may suggest something...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 16, 2013, 04:21:22 am
If you want to add support for all the CTF-based gametypes to your CTF maps, then no problem.

Theorically all gamestype are supported i think, maybe i have to insert some specific item or model ?

Ehmmm.. my dear friend... how many times did I link this page to you?
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes
 ::)

@Moixie: I'd like to try the pirate-themed map, before scrapping it. About the jolly roger there, did you remember to start from a GPL'd or PD'd one, or to draw it from scratch?

@ALL: It seems there is a cvar called BOT_GRAPPLE, that is set to 0 by default. Do you wanna try it? I can't test it now, I have to go! Bye!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 16, 2013, 06:40:10 am
Hi, Akom!
The map is nice... I think you can keep the hooks.

I have moved the grappling Hook to the rear side of both maps, now are at the corner, you will see.

Quote from: Gig
1) I'm still waiting for color-coded teleporters (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46570#msg46570) (depending from the floor they will bring you).  ;D  ;D

I'm working to something like what you mean, but with numbers :P

Quote from: Gig
2) About the lack of weapons someone said, what about giving the shotgun to all players at respawn? It is an old habit with your maps, and I don't remember if you used that in any of this mappack maps (I think at least one or two of the maps in the package may have this feature). Of course, then you may replace the shotgun to pickup with something else.

Not for the moment, i'm working on the map and added some brushes to modify the map, i've also added some plasmagun near the spawnpoint of the players.

Quote from: Gig
3) Again, I suggest to "fork" the grass path in a way that reaching the lateral parts of the building is more comfortable: short additional grass paths may bring to the point highlighted in the screenshot of Adriano (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=274&u=12418615).

Done ! You will see  ;D

Quote from: Gig
4) What's the strange thing in the sky, that you can see in the screenshot attached?

It's a texture error, i have fixed it now.  :P

Quote from: Gig
5) About the name oa_akomctf1... I just realized that some months ago you created a map called oaakomctf1 (without the underscore) as a tribute to the ArenaWarriors community... may that cause some confusion? I don't know.

That map it's not an official one, no one care about it, and by the way there is no problem, tha different name dont create conflict.

Quote from: Gig
About the map I'm working on, I can tell you it's quite "open", so I had to somehow limit my fantasy and to do not exceed in details, to keep the framerate good, because vis portals cannot be of much help there (well, also in your map, r_showtris shows almost the complete map also from behind a building). When I willl post the first beta, I will need your help for suggestions to how to have it not simply looking like a giant box.
I haven't find a name for it yet. It wants to recall some kind of archeological site, and its openess was initially thought for Elimination (Clan Arena)/Last Man Standing. I would like a name that may somehow fit the environment and the gametype, but I have problems finding one (does "Archeological Elimination" sound bad or senseless?). Maybe you may suggest something...

Cant wait to try it !! ;D

You can use a skybox that help the map to not seem only a box but cheat the player's eyes.
Try the one i have used for oa_akomdm5, if you like it i mean.
For the name i suggest "Indiana Fragger"....XD.....sorry just kidding  ;D ;D

Thanks for the link to the wikia  :P, not know why, but i can't find it anytime.... i'm blind ? :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 16, 2013, 08:15:01 am
@Moixie: I follow some of your suggestion. Try the new version in the attachment.
@All: I hope this is the nearest version to the final one. I know there is a couple of bugs, but i want to let you try this version.
Now it's more lighter than before, somethings are fixed.

I've added some items and weapon, i miss to place the ammobox, sorry  :P
Now there are 4 way to run from one base to another.

(http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/33/70/40/shot0059.jpg)

(http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/33/70/40/shot0060.jpg)

(http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/33/70/40/shot0061.jpg)

Things to do:

Fix the number because it's too distant from the wall, place some ammobox, build another sky with more tiny stars, place the target_location for location's names. And finally make the map playable with others gametypes (i don't know how but i have to do it!). Have you noticed somthing else do i have to fix/make ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 17, 2013, 01:08:16 pm
No posts today?! :RIP:

Then take this: sos_ps37ctf
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0013.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=278&u=12418615)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0012.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=277&u=12418615)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0011.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=276&u=12418615)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/12/41/86/15/shot0014.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=279&u=12418615)

Well, in 1.5 days I couldn't start a whole new map, so I just thought: why don't combine two nice things from 2 different persons... and that's the result!

The other thing is: I'm not sure if you want to bring this map in the mappack or as separate map, because of...
a) SoS-logo
b) OA already has 2 very very similar maps of this

=> So I give you the option (mappack or separate map)  to decide (for me it doesn't matter). What do you think is better?

p.s. the bridge is 1unit smaller, so you can jump on it



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 17, 2013, 02:03:24 pm
@Adriano: Good job  ;D , but work to make better brightness.
For the textures (even the SOS logo), i think there is no problem if all are GPLv2.



oa_akomctf1 - Update !

1) Added the support for all team gametype, try it and tell me if you find some problems.
2) Replaced a couple of textures, now seems good.
3) Added some ammobox and some health/armor items.
4) Fixed a bug for the teleporter in one base and adjust the numbers.
5) Removed the megahealth and add two +50 health, one for side.
6) Builded an "arch" in front of each base to avoid to watch directly the opponent base.
7) Added the music in the level and placed some target_location entity.
8 ) Fixed the skybox textures.
9) Other minor stuff....

Now i think it's done, but wait for people response.

;)

Download Link
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/l7j9wkcfflphkk89x1l2

P.S.: The attachment gives me an error (two times, dont know why) so i've upload the map on my Box.com personal host.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Dancar on March 17, 2013, 03:41:47 pm
@akom74 about "facing towers" map

I tried your map, It seems good but I played only against bots (and they don't snipe).
Some suggestions:

1) I've found confusing the numbers on teleporters. Maybe It would better like this: you enter teleporter 1 and you exit from teleporter 1, you enter 2 and you exit from 2.
Plain and simple.

2) If you run on internal roads you can jump on external roads, this is good because makes your path more unpredictable for snipers. But you can't jump from external roads to inners roads (not
on the same level).
I will make all on the same level, or I will add some jumpads on the side of external roads, just to make your path less predictable.

3) Grass texture looks strange but seems nice. Buildings instead lack a bit of personality... perhaps marble textures for them? Don't know.

4) Haste powerup instead BFG?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 17, 2013, 04:21:16 pm
@akom74 about "facing towers" map

I tried your map, It seems good but I played only against bots (and they don't snipe).
Some suggestions:

1) I've found confusing the numbers on teleporters. Maybe It would better like this: you enter teleporter 1 and you exit from teleporter 1, you enter 2 and you exit from 2.
Plain and simple.

2) If you run on internal roads you can jump on external roads, this is good because makes your path more unpredictable for snipers. But you can't jump from external roads to inners roads (not
on the same level).
I will make all on the same level, or I will add some jumpads on the side of external roads, just to make your path less predictable.

3) Grass texture looks strange but seems nice. Buildings instead lack a bit of personality... perhaps marble textures for them? Don't know.

4) Haste powerup instead BFG?

Facing Giants  :P ;D

1) I've fixed this issue in the last version that you can find in the message above your. Look at the box.com download link. The problem of the teleporters number was in the old version.

2) Take the roads on different level it's better i think, but i can link the roads in some point. BOT also jump from a road to another.

3) Man, our big problem is that we dont have a textures pack GPLv2'd for this mappack, all we can do is to use OA original textures, and sometime some map can seems like another. I try to escape from this "issue" like i can. By the way, i try to make the buildings more cool :P

4) I was thinking that the Haste or a Regenaration item will be placed above the base entrance, up the new "arch" added in the last version. What do you think ?


Have you (all) try the map in other gametypes ? It's all ok ?

@Neon_Knight: Can you please, host this file in your host. Some users may have troubles with Java.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 17, 2013, 05:48:21 pm
I have to update everything, it's been a while since I've updated the wiki page.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 17, 2013, 05:55:01 pm
Double post.
I've uploaded oa_akomctf1 and sos_ps37ctf. However, adriano: I'll wait for your map until son_goku2 makes it clear that his textures are GPL'd. If they aren't, I'm afraid I can't include it unless the map is retexturized. Sorry, the rules of the mappack.
(For compliance sake, I'll have this pack being checked by fromhell before it's being released)

Also, new dates for the pack:

Map delivery: March 14-March 21 (Maps can be delivered earlier, though)
Second beta: March 22
Polish/Bug fixing: March 23-April 11
Map delivery: April 12-April 19 (Maps can be delivered earlier, though)
Final release: April 20


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 18, 2013, 02:02:10 am
@Adriano, at a first look the retexturing seems funny (if it complies with GPLv2), but I would not include a simple retexturizing in the mappack. I think one should add changes that would give a new twist to the gameplay...
I don't know, maybe you could move the flags, place them into "closed" rooms, and/or change the central bridge and/or the water passage to make them perpendicular or diagonal, if compared to their current orientation.

@Neon_Knight... what about giving up to the 22nd (friday) or 23rd (saturday) for the maps, and release the second beta on monday?
PS: I'd like to see also a first look to your map before the next beta release. I'm curious...  :D

@Akom. Nice.
- Congrats for the lower part, it looks better now.
- But I would make the BFG respawn time higer (30 seconds? 45 second? 60 seconds?): at the moment, it looks there are too many around. By the way, BFG is very useful in Overload mode! :)
- Maybe the old places of the grapples were better: you had to do at least half map "normally" before being able to get one... now it's too easy.
- For the floor numbers, they are ok. However, if you prefer, you could use roman numbers instead (I, II).
- Bots seem to do not care a lot about the back door... did you try placing some item_botroam around there?
- Someone said that bots do not snipe. I don't know if you placed info_camp entities or not... by the way, while playing, I got railed various times by a level 4 Sarge while I was using the hook. I don't know if he was camping or not. However, spectating, it seems they do not camp a lot.
- It seems to me that bots do not care about the grapple even if I set bot_grapple 1... how's that in your tests, guys?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 18, 2013, 11:07:36 am
@Akom. Nice.
- Congrats for the lower part, it looks better now.
- But I would make the BFG respawn time higer (30 seconds? 45 second? 60 seconds?): at the moment, it looks there are too many around. By the way, BFG is very useful in Overload mode! :)
- Maybe the old places of the grapples were better: you had to do at least half map "normally" before being able to get one... now it's too easy.
- For the floor numbers, they are ok. However, if you prefer, you could use roman numbers instead (I, II).
- Bots seem to do not care a lot about the back door... did you try placing some item_botroam around there?
- Someone said that bots do not snipe. I don't know if you placed info_camp entities or not... by the way, while playing, I got railed various times by a level 4 Sarge while I was using the hook. I don't know if he was camping or not. However, spectating, it seems they do not camp a lot.
- It seems to me that bots do not care about the grapple even if I set bot_grapple 1... how's that in your tests, guys?

Thank you  ;D

I have worked a lot a this map, and i'm happy you (all) enjoy it !  :D

By the way, i will modify the BFG respawn time to 40 seconds, but the grappling hook i dont know where place it, maybe i can remove one and place the other in another place..... maybe good in front of the initial "arch" ?

Roman numbers seems out of map's theme i think, but is not a bad idea :P

For BOT sniping, i think that depends from BOT's "intelligence", maybe one BOT dont care about the Railgun, another BOT run to the Railgun and camp/snipe.

BOTs dont use the grappling hook, i think it's because the original engine program dont contemplate this function.

;)



@ALL: P.S.: maybe i can make another CTF map for the second beta, but not sure at 100%... :P ...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 18, 2013, 11:15:14 am
In the map I created, I placed some info_camp entities. I can see than by now and then, bots will annoy roaming and will stop at the info_camp point, looking around over and over for a quite long time, waiting for spotting some opponent.
Of course, bot personality gives them a more or less "campy" attitude.

PS: Maybye you could make the ceiling of that map (the sky) a little more higher (just in case or rocketjumps/bfg jumps while on the roof)...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: adriano on March 18, 2013, 02:06:16 pm
@Neon_Knight: Ofc, that's important what you said with GPL v2.
If you look at http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4737.0 he edited his post and
under "MEGA Legodeck" I took the link "GPLv2" but ofc, better to be sure and ask him clearly. 
Sos-logo shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, I think also that it is better to don't include it in this mappack. I have new important work (personal) up to today and I don't want to be distracted by loosing time in bringing on this map forward or other things (even if I love to do that). =/

So, I make  a new post for this map so that you can find it there. EDIT: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4741.0

I hope I'll find some time to follow at least your work.

Bye.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 19, 2013, 03:53:25 am
Akom, what's about making a link between the external grass paths, more or less at the place of the attached screenshot?

Another thing: I occasionally saw "unknown" in the team overlay table: I don't remember if that may be caused by the game not finding a location name near (or being at the same distance from two?), or if it caused by having one target_location without the "message" key properly defined.

PS: Some posts ago you mentioned a problem attaching files in the forum. I fear that, also if the GUI tells we can attach up to 3082 KB, in reality it does accept files up to (about) 1,3-1,5 MB only.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 19, 2013, 02:29:08 pm
Update!  ;D

Ok, guys, i think the map it's about to be ready for the final release.

Updates:

1) Added more Target_Location entity, i have do some matches and i haven't notice any "unlknow" error. Tell me if and where you notice this error.
2) Moved the Grappling Hook in front of the "Arch" at the start of the bases.
3) Added the Haste at the top of the same "Arch".
4) Some minor brush editing.
5) Added irregular stair to connect the roads, do you like it ? :P
6) Removed the "fake floor".
7) Now the Top of the skybox is higher than before.
8 ) The BFG now respawn in 40 seconds.
9) After some textures-experiment i think this is good, the buildings are of concrete, i've used four textures to make it not too boring :P

Download Link:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/l7j9wkcfflphkk89x1l2

Enjoy, and tell me. I think it's done now  ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 20, 2013, 03:37:41 am
Nice stairs!  :D

I was thinking that the central platform looks empty. It is used in Harvester (skull generator), One flag CTF (white flag) and Domination (Domination point), but in all other modes, it looks empty.
I suppose you could place something there again (megahealth?), by specifying all gametypes except those three, or by using the !gametype key (but !gametype is OpenArena-specific, so I would suggest to use the !gametype only for TA-introduced stuff, more infos here: http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping#Limiting_items_to_certain_gametypes).

P.S.: random idea: considering the map supports Overload mode, I suppose that invulnerability and proximity mines (the only weapon that passes through invulnerability) may be welcome. However, due to the fact that bots (always?) use the same, narrow passage to reach the flag, proximity mines could be too much... I'm unsure. Maybe one could give also to them a respawn time quite long...

P.P.S: For some reason, the green texture/shader of the teleporters has some problems (appears completely black) if I have the OACMPbeta1 installed. Making some tests enabling and disabling your maps betas pk3s, it seems that there is something from oa_akomdm4 package (checked with a oa_akomdm4.pk3 dated 13 or 15 February) that causes this problem (during those tests, it seemed that also the sky may somehow conflict with that package... but I see it normally with the OACMPbeta1).


Title: MY MAP - FIRST BETA
Post by: Gig on March 20, 2013, 07:20:36 am
Okay, attached here you can find the FIRST BETA of my map..
I have not found a name for it yet, so at the moment it's just TEST2.
Your suggestions are welcome. Maybe Archelogical Elimination (archeoelim)? I don't know...

As I told, I initially designed it with Elimination mode in mind (quickly moving around all the arena with rocket jumps)... however, through time I did various changes to it, to try help bots to better navigate there.

The .arena file allows to play in FFA, TDM, Elimination, LMS and DD modes.
However, it's technically possible (and you can try if you wish) to play it also in Tournament (of course! But maybe it's a bit too large for that), CTF (that would be quite strange to play, considering the map is not symmetric and there are no team spawn points) and CTF Elimination (hey, maybe it may be nice in the OneWay CTF Elimination, who knows!).

The file contains the source .map. I haven't included yet the .psd files of the few textures from mine I created; of course I will do for the final version.

Things I'd like to do: fixing textures and lights, replacing three shotguns with the TA weapons, adding support for Domination mode. And, of course, making the outer perimeter of the map something different than the current "big box" (sloping walls maybe?), possibly without affecting framerate too much. I may require your help. E.g.: if I would switch from Q3Radiant to GTK Radiant (to see OA textures in the editor, and to see TA entities), would everything automatically work, or some kind of conversion/tweaking/fixing would be required?

What do you think about it? Bugs? Suggestions? Too many bots?
Please remember that I'm noob at mapping. I know this is not the best map ever, but I think that at least it's something a little different than usual OA maps, isn't it?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 20, 2013, 09:01:35 am
I'm very lazy lately, sorry  ::)
I've finally tested the latest release of oa_akomctf1, and it's really good. Buildings are now better, there is some variety in textures.
Instead of using numbers above teleporters, you could put a weapon icons - BFG for the middle floor, and and railgun for the roof.
Weapon and item balance is good, and I love the grappling hook position. I think there is no need for invulnerability or proximity mines.

In the Double Domination mode, the nodes are at the place of the flags in a base, it makes little sense in my opinion - you'll never get to control the opposing base node, because enemies are constantly respawning there.
I suggest something like this - create separate paths, in the center of the map, and far away from each other, to have Double Domination nodes. On the other hand, Double Domination is the only game mode which requires that change, so you may just disable it for your map.
Also, the plain Domination, Elimination, CTF Elimination and Overload game modes are not supported - I guess you need to modify the .arena file.

The Team Deathmatch mode is the most neglected - there are only 15 maps available. In fact, every map in OA should support Team DM, because you don't need any special nodes or flags to play it, and big CTF maps are okay, because there are teams. The same stands for Elimination mode - any map is okay to play it. For CTF Elimination, you only need CTF map. Maybe we need to modify .arena files for all maps, for the next version of OA, to fix that?

The next most neglected mode is Domination, with 16 maps. oajgctf1 and mx1ctf8 maps also do not support the Domination mode. Generally, to support Domination, you need a CTF map with two flags at the bases and one flag in the center of the map (and maybe also at the locations of Double Domination nodes, if your map supports that).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: fromhell on March 20, 2013, 09:29:17 am
i'd also replace the grass texture with something smaller and less contrasty (because that kind of 'huge bladed grass on dark ground' texture was a problem for the original Nexuiz), and then add the grass detail by a detail texture layer.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 20, 2013, 11:18:15 am
About Akom's map, I suppose it should be possible to fix the Double Domination also without having to modify map structure.

-One may add the DD-specific spawn points (placing them in the middle of the map).
-One may use the gametype key for disabling the spawn points that are really too near to the points, while playing in DD.
-One may move the DD points to the upper floors, where (I think) there are no spawn points. <<-- What about this?

However, you may notice that you already spawn in (or next) to a random base and not always in your color base, while playing DD there. I'm not sure there is really the need to tweak that. With a quick test self-killing me various times, I noticed I always required some seconds of walking before reaching the A or B point. However, playing with some bots in 3vs3, I can see that scoring isn't easy at the moment!
A strange thing is that maybe it seems there are few different spawn points... how many of them are there?

PS: Akom, it seems you forgot to add CTF Elimination and Domination in the .arena file.  :)

About the grass texture, maybe someone may need the "pebbles" textures I created and placed in my map?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 20, 2013, 11:33:42 am
Quote from: Gig
I was thinking that the central platform looks empty. It is used in Harvester (skull generator), One flag CTF (white flag) and Domination (Domination point), but in all other modes, it looks empty.
I suppose you could place something there again (megahealth?), by specifying all gametypes except those three...  

Done ! I've inserted the Red Armour, you can find it only in CTF CTFelimination and Double Domination.

Quote from: Gig
P.S.: random idea: considering the map supports Overload mode, I suppose that invulnerability and proximity mines (the only weapon that passes through invulnerability) may be welcome. However, due to the fact that bots (always?) use the same, narrow passage to reach the flag, proximity mines could be too much... I'm unsure. Maybe one could give also to them a respawn time quite long...  

Dont know, there is the BFG in this map, maybe i can "team" the Proximity Launcher with BFG. Tell me.

Quote from: Pelya
Instead of using numbers above teleporters, you could put a weapon icons - BFG for the middle floor, and and railgun for the roof.  

It's a good idea, but i'm waiting to know if i have to insert proximity launcher teamed with BFG.

Quote from: Pelya
I suggest something like this - create separate paths, in the center of the map, and far away from each other, to have Double Domination nodes. On the other hand, Double Domination is the only game mode which requires that change, so you may just disable it for your map.
Also, the plain Domination, Elimination, CTF Elimination and Overload game modes are not supported - I guess you need to modify the .arena file.  

A) You all will kill me (and you Pelya  :P ) for the crazy idea of that change..... stay tuned....
B) I have fixed the .arena file, now it work.

Quote from: fromhell
i'd also replace the grass texture with something smaller and less contrasty (because that kind of 'huge bladed grass on dark ground' texture was a problem for the original Nexuiz), and then add the grass detail by a detail texture layer.  

Maybe i can remove the grass and place some rocks, for the bridge i mean. In the base i can place a different floor texture.



Damn, i have a lot of work now......XD.... :P

@GiG: Your map now it's a big box with some brushes inside, work to make it like a map with passages and modify the "random" item placement.

In DD game you dont use the team_red/blue_player entity to respawn, but the player_deathmatch entity.

The domination point A and B in DD game are the flags itself that change automatically in this DD gamemode. I can insert 2 more flags, let me try (Pelya i'm not responsable.....ah ah ah...wait..)  ;D ;D

;)




Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: pelya on March 20, 2013, 11:38:08 am
I've found some random brick and grass textures from Xonotic (http://media.antzucaro.com/xonotic/ts1/) and from UfoAI (https://github.com/ufoai/ufoai/tree/master/base/textures/tex_nature), they are licensed under GPL. Nexuiz was mentioned, so let's plunder random open-source projects for textures ;D

@Gig: Isn't Double Domination require two nodes? You cannot place both nodes to the center of the map. Placing them on the roof, or near the base entrance, might be okay.
@Akom: So you're not respawning only on your base in DD mode - you're respawning at some random spots? Then forget all my complaints :) you don't need to modify the map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 20, 2013, 11:46:15 am
@GiG: Your map now it's a big box with some brushes inside, work to make it like a map with passages
It's the sake of this map! It's the soul of this map... the freedom to rocket-jump anywhere you want, without the need to pass from a room to the next one...
This is a completely different approach than my TEST1 map (that you only have seen), and that you didn't like...

PS: in real world's archeological areas you can find some building ruins here and there...

Suggestions are accepted, but the "mood" of the map is freedom of rocket jumping, and I like it.  ;D I wished to do something different than usual maps.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 20, 2013, 11:50:22 am
@GiG: Your map now it's a big box with some brushes inside, work to make it like a map with passages
It's the sake of this map! It's the soul of this map... the freedom to rocket-jump anywhere you want, without the need to pass from a room to the next one...
This is a completely different approach than my TEST1 map (that you only have seen), and that you didn't like...

PS: in real world's archeological areas you can find some building ruins here and there...

Suggestions are accepted, but the "mood" of the map is freedom of rocket jumping, and I like it.  ;D I wished to do something different than usual maps.

What about put the riuns and the architectures in a skybox ? I mean an open archeological area will be better i think. Try it with one of mine skybox if you want.  ;D ;D

@Pelya: I will insert more and randomly placed entity for this gamemode.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 20, 2013, 11:57:08 am
What about put the riuns and the architectures in a skybox ? I mean an open archeological area will be better i think. Try it with one of mine skybox if you want.  ;D ;D
How to modify the outer borders of the map to make them not like a box is the thing I ask for suggestions since the beginning.  ::) Current outer borders are not definitive... however, your suggestion is to do something similar to oa_akomdm5? Do you mean an archelogical area suspended in the air?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 20, 2013, 01:01:16 pm
What about put the riuns and the architectures in a skybox ? I mean an open archeological area will be better i think. Try it with one of mine skybox if you want.  ;D ;D
How to modify the outer borders of the map to make them not like a box is the thing I ask for suggestions since the beginning.  ::) Current outer borders are not definitive... however, your suggestion is to do something similar to oa_akomdm5? Do you mean an archelogical area suspended in the air?

No no, i mean something like the picture in the attachment.

By the way, you have to use some brushes for build some "fake place" around the map to "trick" the player and to make it look like the map is not square.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Dancar on March 20, 2013, 03:25:42 pm
@Akom74

Now the buildings look better and bots snipe a bit more, they still ignore, like someone said, the back door, so It's difficult for them to grab the flag because they are often slaughtered on the front door.

----------------

here some (very) personal considerations:

1) About the skull decorations, I don't like them and I will placed OA logo instead. Because they're a bit too gothic plus skull decorations are the most over-abused decorations in every game ever.
I'm sick of them.

2) I don't like neither the position of hook nor haste. I will place the haste powerups in the position of the hooks, and the hooks in previous positions: the two back corners.

3) The stairs seem placed where you CAN jump from the external road to internal one, but It's better than nothing, think.

------------------

Overall I like your map.
I hope one day, not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow (take a break), you will try a Deck (place numbers) something like map. 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 20, 2013, 03:33:38 pm
@Akom74

Now the buildings look better and bots snipe a bit more, they still ignore, like someone said, the back door, so It's difficult for them to grab the flag because they are often slaughtered on the front door.

----------------

here some (very) personal considerations:

1) About the skull decorations, I don't like them and I will placed OA logo instead. Because they're a bit too gothic plus skull decorations are the most over-abused decorations in every game ever.
I'm sick of them.

2) I don't like neither the position of hook nor haste. I will place the haste powerups in the position of the hooks, and the hooks in previous positions: the two back corners.

3) The stairs seem placed where you CAN jump from the external road to internal one, but It's better than nothing, think.

Ok, i'm modifiyng the map, tomorrow i can give you (all) another, and last (i hope) version.

Quote from: Dancar
Overall I like your map.
I hope one day, not tomorrow or the day after tomorrow (take a break), you will try a Deck (place numbers) something like map. 


You mean this: http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t154-akom18-deck-evolution   ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Dancar on March 20, 2013, 04:24:40 pm

Ok, i'm modifiyng the map, tomorrow i can give you (all) another, and last (i hope) version.


Well, thanks, but, eh... I'm not the official reviewer of the forum

Quote

You mean this: http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t154-akom18-deck-evolution   ;D ;D

;)

mmm... I will try.

------------------

@Gig

Your map is large with a lot of place where to hide, jump, enter or exit structures for cover etc.
I think this is good but It looks more like a site where they are building something than an archeologic site.

A tip? Call the map "Under construction" (or  better: "Under Destruction") and then make a map filled with unfinished buildings of different styles that you think they are good for gameplay and don't bother too much about realism.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 21, 2013, 02:26:20 am
A tip? Call the map "Under construction" (or  better: "Under Destruction")
"Under Destruction"! I like this name, thank you! But before using it, I have to do a google search to check if it has already been used for Q3 or OA maps (it sounds good, but also common)...


Title: Version 02
Post by: Gig on March 21, 2013, 11:41:04 am
Today I've had very little time for the map.
However, I've done a few changes (by the way, I have the backup of the map before the changes), so you can try this "version2" attached here.
- Map renamed from TEST2 to UDESTRUCTION (UNDER DESTRUCTION)
- Four pillars in the hall of pillars made a little larger
- aqueduct: made it less deep. Pro: bots should get out if it more easily than before. Con: when you step on the trigger that opens the door, you may get out from the aqueduct without jumping, so also unvoluntarily.

- biggest one: first try to get rid of the "box" effect. In this try, I tried to make the outer walls "sloping", in the hope to somehow remind some kind of valley. However, the result does not satisfy me completely (although for some reason it looks better in OA than in Q3)... and also the tecnique I had to use to get it does not like me too much. What do you think? I'd like to try also different approaches in the next days... Example: Akom's photo is good, but I don't know how I could do a such thing...

Again, the .map is included.
If you want to do some tests with the map (starting from this second version, or from the first version! (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661#msg46661)), to try what you would do to get rid of the "big box" effect, you're welcome.

PS: a question: is there some way to identify the brush that causes the "duplicate plane" error during BSPC? If I get that error during Q3MAP (output in junk.txt in the temporary folder), it mentions the proper brush number, so I can find it in Q3Radiant and redo that brush from scratch, fixing the issue. But if I get it during BSPC (log in gspc.log), it mentions brush numbers that do not exist in my map!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 21, 2013, 01:41:29 pm
Update !  :P

@ALL: This is the Download link for the last version, ready for the release:
Code:
https://www.box.com/s/l7j9wkcfflphkk89x1l2

Updates:

1) The Haste-Powerup is now at the base of the arch, where first was the Grappling Hook.
2) The Grappling Hook now return at the back corner of the map, one x base.
3) I have mixed and teamed the BFG with the Proximity Launcher. Respawn time is 20 seconds.
4) Changed the terrain (grass) texture for all the first floor+bridge, i think the metal-rock is better.
5) Added more Deathmatch player_info for Domination Gamemode.
6) Fixed the Shader for the teleporter, now seem ok.
7) Fixed the .arena file. Now work well for all gametypes.
8 ) Added the Red Armour in the middle of the map, it appear only in 3 gametype (i hope).
9) Removed the skull-textures.



@GiG: If the idea for your map is to rocket-jump all over the map, i think you have to insert more rocket launcher, ammo and health. By the way, try to insert a skybox and remove the horrible external walls (personal opinion).... :P....
Adjust also the textures, they seem placed randomly. Try to make an homogeneous style.

@Dancar: If you try the Deck evolution map, remind that is for Q3A, if you want to try with OA you may need the compatibility-textures-pack. But we are OT  :P. Here is the map thread: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4582.0 (no one commented yet  :-[ )


;)


Title: Re: Version 02
Post by: sago007 on March 21, 2013, 04:53:35 pm

PS: a question: is there some way to identify the brush that causes the "duplicate plane" error during BSPC? If I get that error during Q3MAP (output in junk.txt in the temporary folder), it mentions the proper brush number, so I can find it in Q3Radiant and redo that brush from scratch, fixing the issue. But if I get it during BSPC (log in gspc.log), it mentions brush numbers that do not exist in my map!
I don't know but there is a plugin that can remove the overlapping brushes. It will remove 7 duplicated brushes in your map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 21, 2013, 10:06:14 pm
22/03/13 at 11:00 AM (-3 GMT) the second beta of the pack will be released.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 22, 2013, 12:58:24 am
@GiG: If the idea for your map is to rocket-jump all over the map, i think you have to insert more rocket launcher, ammo and health. By the way, try to insert a skybox and remove the horrible external walls (personal opinion).... :P....
Adjust also the textures, they seem placed randomly. Try to make an homogeneous style.
Except those few that I created, all other textures were stock Q3 textures in the editor, that are automatically replaced with OA textures while loading the map.... of course the replacements are not totally equal to the original ones, so the result changes from what I see while mapping. I always thought about re-texturing the map, after it's fully functional. For this reason I ask what should I know/do to continue the map switching from Q3Radiant to a OA-aware GTKRadiant... if some kind of conversion or workaround is required, etc.

Of course I can add one more rocket launcher if you wish (where would you like it?). However, the main purposes of this map are Elimination and LMS modes, where there are no pickups (the modes where you can rocket-jump as you wish without hurting yourself by default).

By the way, me too don't like those external walls... You know I'm searching for ways to get rid of them... I was thinking that one option could be to do those walls very short, and place the sky shader also on the upper part of the map side, but unfortunately the sky shows strange (and ugly!) artefacts if you see it from up to down (example: spectate in SPCTFMAP9 in FlagRaiders mod)... I don't know how to avoid this...
For that skybox thing, could you please tell the name of an existing (non-space) map that could fit as example?

PS: About your map, in the changelog I read you added proximity mines, but I don't read anything about invulnerability. When I proposed the idea of proximity mines, it was just to integrate the idea of adding invulnerability (because they are the only weapon that can kill the Invulnerability user).   ::) Of course you are not forced to use all of my ideas... they are just proposals, then choose yourself what better fits your own ideas for the map.  ;) This one of the Invulnerability+mines was simply a thought, considering the overload mode.

PPS: just a curiosity: why did you place the red armor "in three gametypes only"? Wasn't it planned to be used in all gametypes except the three that already have a gametype-specific thing there (e.g. by using the !gametype key)?
PPPS: Are you sure that with the new spawn points for DD, now it's not too quick to grab the BFG, jump down and conquire the A or B point? Well, if the BFG/mines respawn times are long enough, this should not be a major problem, I suppose. But with the rail? Just thoughts....


PS: a question: is there some way to identify the brush that causes the "duplicate plane" error during BSPC? If I get that error during Q3MAP (output in junk.txt in the temporary folder), it mentions the proper brush number, so I can find it in Q3Radiant and redo that brush from scratch, fixing the issue. But if I get it during BSPC (log in gspc.log), it mentions brush numbers that do not exist in my map!
I don't know but there is a plugin that can remove the overlapping brushes. It will remove 7 duplicated brushes in your map.
This sounds very interesting. Does someone have more infos?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 22, 2013, 09:24:31 am
Sorry! Didn't came in time with the pack.
18:00 (GMT -3) will be posted, including Gig's map, if he wants to.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 22, 2013, 10:03:22 am
Sorry! Didn't came in time with the pack.
18:00 (GMT -3) will be posted, including Gig's map, if he wants to.
Okay. I know I will have to work more on it the next week, but I think some test can already be made with that version. This evening I did some tests with making the sky also laterally, even placing it after several meters behind a "player clip" invisible wall... but I'm not satisfied anyway and there are some bspc messages I have to investigate.
PS: I'd like also your suggestions, man. :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 22, 2013, 11:01:45 am
Except those few that I created, all other textures were stock Q3 textures in the editor, that are automatically replaced with OA textures while loading the map.... of course the replacements are not totally equal to the original ones, so the result changes from what I see while mapping. I always thought about re-texturing the map, after it's fully functional. For this reason I ask what should I know/do to continue the map switching from Q3Radiant to a OA-aware GTKRadiant... if some kind of conversion or workaround is required, etc.
Quote
Of course I can add one more rocket launcher if you wish (where would you like it?). However, the main purposes of this map are Elimination and LMS modes...

If you map is intended for those gametypes it's ok :P

Install GTKRadiant and configure it for OA to avoid textures/model issues.

Quote
By the way, me too don't like those external walls... You know I'm searching for ways to get rid of them... I was thinking that one option could be to do those walls very short, and place the sky shader also on the upper part of the map side, but unfortunately the sky shows strange (and ugly!) artefacts if you see it from up to down (example: spectate in SPCTFMAP9 in FlagRaiders mod)... I don't know how to avoid this...

I know this... but with the skybox you can do what you want, take one of mine from the OACMP.


Quote
PS: About your map, in the changelog I read you added proximity mines, but I don't read anything about invulnerability. When I proposed the idea of proximity mines, it was just to integrate the idea of adding invulnerability (because they are the only weapon that can kill the Invulnerability user).   ::) Of course you are not forced to use all of my ideas... they are just proposals, then choose yourself what better fits your own ideas for the map.  ;) This one of the Invulnerability+mines was simply a thought, considering the overload mode.

I placed the proximity to defend the flag with mines  :P ;D

Quote
PPS: just a curiosity: why did you place the red armor "in three gametypes only"? Wasn't it planned to be used in all gametypes except the three that already have a gametype-specific thing there (e.g. by using the !gametype key)?

In the Domination game it averride the flag, and also the white flag in ONe Flag CTF.

Quote
PPPS: Are you sure that with the new spawn points for DD, now it's not too quick to grab the BFG, jump down and conquire the A or B point? Well, if the BFG/mines respawn times are long enough, this should not be a major problem, I suppose. But with the rail? Just thoughts....

It's valid for both teams i think.


@GIG: add invisible wall maybe not the best way...... try first with one skybox, using the image i've posted in the other post above.

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Moixie on March 22, 2013, 11:34:38 am
@Gig

I tested your map and I loved it ! It changes much of other maps where you have to follow a strict way, on it you are free to play like you want and it's pretty innteresting in "last man standing" or in "elimination". (a "ctf_elimination" version would certainly rock ! It would become more than a simple slaughter, and with all ways that you can take on the map, pursuits can become amazing)

However, I didn't really noticed that it was an archeological site. I thought it was a city which was destroyed by bombs. So, totally off topic, here is what I would do if I were you, and if you tried to make a destroyed city:
-> adding some decorative things: debris, collapsed building, wood boxes, metal barrels, fire, ...
-> densifying the city, more buildings, less empty areas. To me, it would be even better if it looked like a real maze, with thousand ways behind every door, if you see what I mean.
-> adding underground tunnels (metro? sewers?).
-> adding bombs (shooter_grenade), coming from the air to the ground.
-> adding big buildings around the city to change the box's feeling
-> making it less "squary".
But it's a archeological site, so it's completely off topic and useless.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 22, 2013, 12:16:54 pm
Thank you Moixie. :)

Some history:
When I started the Map, I had in mind to do a Clan Arena map, but I didn't have a precise theme in mind. I liked something with a gameplay vaguely similar to OSPCA1, but it's years I don't see that map (however I never intended to do an ospca1 tribute map).
I initially did the prison, and then the warehouse. After leaving it without roof to allow shooting and jumping in and out, I thought that an archaeological area would have fit with missing ceilings, so I added a ruined temple, and ancient towers... it seems something went wrong with the theme... if noone sees it as ancient.
Anyway, I think it's not a major problem if anyone considers the place what he prefers (ruins, construction, war area)... or is it?

I also thought about underground passages, but then I did not do them thinking that one should not hide too much in Elimination... was I wrong?

About adding much more things: the openess of this map causes vis portals almost useless... I tried to keep the total number of polygons low trying to preserve framerate... However I may put in a few more things, if necessary...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 22, 2013, 05:28:57 pm
I had a lot of complications today, so I've decided to post the pack tomorrow, 8:00 AM (GMT -3).
Good thing, though, because jangroothuijse sent me another alpha of oajgdm3. This way, both Gig and jan's maps will appear in beta 2.
I'm also uploading Gig's map to the FTP.

The really sad thing is that, for this volume at least, I won't be able to submit anything. :(
My way to do maps works with small maps. But the CTF map I was working on is pretty big, and I won't be able to get it in time for the pack. And I don't want the pack to be delayed anymore.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 23, 2013, 05:01:48 am
And I don't want the pack to be delayed anymore.
Excuse me, my friend. I don't get why you think releasing the pack in specified timing is so strictly necessary.  As you can read in previous posts, more or less all other guys here think that polishing the maps in the pack is more important than a release date.
We all have real lifes, too... and we cannot work on maps h24. I think that even if the mappack would be released in May or June, there would be no problem at all.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: jangroothuijse on March 23, 2013, 05:57:43 am
I agree with Gig, better have a higher quality pack, then meet a self-set (and thus relatively arbitrary) deadline.

Having a deadline may have helped people to move this project up towards the top of their todo list, but now that we have started and are active, it is no longer needed to enforce it this strict, we should just worry more about the quality now.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Dancar on March 23, 2013, 08:52:11 am
@Akom74

About the facing buildings map: now all is better but I miss the grass texture.


@Gig

What do you think to change it in a sort of void map with some fractures in the ground, like the map is tearing apart in an another dimension?

You should add also floating bricks or debris...


Title: OACMP Volume 1 Beta 2 Ready to go!
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 23, 2013, 09:41:50 am
Dancar, post your thoughts about Akom's Deck remake in the topic he linked: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4582.0. This is the topic for the mappack.

Here's second beta: http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_oacmp_beta2.pk3 (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_oacmp_beta2.pk3)
13 maps, 48MB. From now on, polish.

@Gig and jan: You're both right, but the deadlines are because I don't want the pack to be released five years after it began.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Akom74 on March 23, 2013, 10:04:34 am
@Gig and jan: You're both right, but the deadlines are because I don't want the pack to be released five years after it began.

I agree.

By the way, i can't wait to see your map  ;D ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 24, 2013, 08:01:47 pm
Oh, yeah, I've forgot to modify the thread's title.
Beta 2 available for testing. From now on, polishing of the existing maps. The launch amount will be of 13 maps. Many other maps will be left for Volume 2, in case Vol 1 is successfull.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 1
Post by: Gig on March 25, 2013, 02:44:23 am
@GIG: add invisible wall maybe not the best way...... try first with one skybox, using the image i've posted in the other post above.
Which image? The one you attached here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46670#msg46670)? Is it GPLv2?

I thought it was a city which was destroyed by bombs. So, totally off topic, here is what I would do if I were you, and if you tried to make a destroyed city:
-> adding bombs (shooter_grenade), coming from the air to the ground.
I fear that may steer from skill to luck. However it may be interesting for some other map... maybe it could be used for some map in a second OACMP volume?

What do you think to change it in a sort of void map with some fractures in the ground, like the map is tearing apart in an another dimension?

You should add also floating bricks or debris...
Interesting, but anyway for this map I wish to make it no possible to die falling in the void, so I would need to keep the "player clip" anyway...
By the way, I want to try to keep the total number of brushes limited enough due to preserve framerate... so I have to somehow limit "decorations"...   :-[


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 25, 2013, 04:05:30 am
Very first tests with OACMP beta 2...

- OA_AKOMDM4:
-- while in the lateral borders of the map, shots disappear in the outer space, in the front and back "walls" (that should be outer space, too) shots explode and leave marks.
-- the same bots are used two times.

- OA_AKOMDM3: the .arena does not list it for Elimination mode yet. This is a crime against humanity.  :)

- Other maps from Akom: you may consider adding DD and Dom suppport to them.

- OAJGDM2BETA: there is still the problem that the teleporters don't look like teleporters...

- OAJGCTF1ALPHA:
-- playing in CTF mode (with default bots), at first spawn I appeared in the enemy base, and I telefragged someone doing that! Did you set only few spawn points with the "initial" flag maybe?
-- the map is listed for Elimination mode, but I tried it in that mode and bots tend to do not roam along the map, but tend to stay in the part you can see in the first screenshot attached, just out of the tunnel in their base. I don't know if they have similar issues also playing in other modes. Did you try placing some item_botroams entities (don't forget the "weight" key there)?
-- the map lacks location names.
-- It seems the only way to get to the passage shown in the second screenshot attached is to rocket jump there (or to access if from the other side). Are you sure you want to keep it this way?

- OAJGDM3ALPHA2: found a graphic glitch (see through wall), see the third screenshot. Note: I don't know why the screenshot looks so bright, it depends from my machine I think.

- VARIOUS MAPS: the default bots selection in .arena for various maps in the pack is quite repetitive. There are various maps (from different authors) in the package that use just Grunt, Major and Sarge. A little more variety would be welcome...  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: sago007 on March 25, 2013, 05:12:59 am
I player some of the maps: akomdm3, akomdm4, jgdm3alpha2, jgctf1alpha and akomctf1. I was well entertained so that is a good thing. I was positively surprised by akomctf1 because I had my doubts it would work well with quake-physics but it works just right.

- OAJGCTF1ALPHA:
-- playing in CTF mode (with default bots), at first spawn I appeared in the enemy base, and I telefragged someone doing that! Did you set only few spawn points with the "initial" flag maybe?
I have never used the initial flag. I am not even sure about what it does?
The problem is that the map has no "team_CTF_blueplayer" or "team_CTF_redplayer" spawnpoints (there should 16 of each. They are used only at the beginning of the match). For some reason Q3 falls back to "info_player_start" and the map only has 2 of those. To be playable in DD, there should be some "info_player_dd" in the middle otherwise this game too falls back to "info_player_start".

The map layout is very good and I believe it will work well.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 25, 2013, 06:11:35 am
I don't know in which cases the game selects between info_player_deathmatch and info_player_start. In my map, I used info_player_deathmatch only and no info_player_start.

I think that the "initial" flag means that spawn point will be used for the player's very first spawn in the game, while the other spawn points in that map will be used only for the later re-spawns. So, I suppose it is something useless for 99% of maps, while it may be useful for a "tutorial" map where you have some explainations at the beginning, and then enter a deathmatch: you see the explaination part only the first time. I can guess id software used it for Q3DM0.

Here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Spawn_points) someone (I suppose Neon_Knight) wrote that "Id recommends to use [info_player_deathmatch] with the INITIAL spawnflag set"... so I assume in a normal map one should either set the initial flag for ALL spawn points, or for NONE.... this way one gets the same result (randomly spawning everytime) -trying to follow that page advice, I set it on all the spawn points-. If some have the flag and others not, some spawn points will be used only once, and other will be used only starting from the second spawning.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 25, 2013, 07:12:44 am
About UDESTRUCTION.

I've done another try to limit the "box" effect.
This time, I tried to make the external perimeter multi-level, placing a few small buildings there. This new part is not reachable by players.

Apart the fact that I should use a different texture for the surrounding "mountains" because the current one looks bad (too bright) when illuminated by this sky (on one machine.. on another computer it's not so bright), I don't like the result too much anyway.

You can try this version 03, it's attached.

By the way, I noticed another problem... Do you remember that I said I made the aqueduct less "deep" to allow bots to more easily jump out of it? As you can see from the second screenshot, I can see that instead now they are no more able to get out of it at all! Why? ???


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 25, 2013, 07:28:17 am
Tried putting a common/botclip "stair"?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 25, 2013, 10:46:46 am
- OA_AKOMDM4:
-- while in the lateral borders of the map, shots disappear in the outer space, in the front and back "walls" (that should be outer space, too) shots explode and leave marks.
-- the same bots are used two times.
- OA_AKOMDM3: the .arena does not list it for Elimination mode yet. This is a crime against humanity.  :)

For oa_akomdm4 sky, you are right, it's a bug, i have to fix it :P
For bots selection it's not a big problem, when you launch the map you can change it, by the way i've modified the .arena file.

Quote from: Gig
- Other maps from Akom: you may consider adding DD and Dom suppport to them.

I've modified the .arena file with various bots and adding Elimination mode.

Quote from: Gig
- VARIOUS MAPS: the default bots selection in .arena for various maps in the pack is quite repetitive. There are various maps (from different authors) in the package that use just Grunt, Major and Sarge. A little more variety would be welcome...  :)

It's Neon_knight fault, write to him  ;D ;D  :P :P

 ;)



@Gig: Always insert an info_player_start and a couple (minimum) of info_player_deathmatch to avoid the personal space telefrag.
Also in CTF mode, you have to insert more info:

8 - team_CTF_redplayer
8 - team_CTF_redspawn
8 - info_player_deathmatch

8 - team_CTF_blueplayer
8 - team_CTF_bluespawn
8 - info_player_deathmatch

@Gig(2): Watch at the step in the aqueduct, bots don't jump always you have to set the grid to 4 and make the floor/plane about maximum 2 step. Make some test in a blank boxed map and watch where bots play as well and where bots don't care about it.... :P....



Quote from: Gig
Which image? The one you attached here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46670#msg46670)? Is it GPLv2?

No no, i mean that you have to be inspired by this picture to avoid the box effect. ;D

 :D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 25, 2013, 11:33:43 am
@Gig: Always insert an info_player_start and a couple (minimum) of info_player_deathmatch to avoid the personal space telefrag.
What's the difference between info_player_start and info_player_deathmatch? My map has got something like 22 info_player_deathmatch and 0 info_player_start.

Quote from: Akom74
Also in CTF mode, you have to insert more info:

8 - team_CTF_redplayer
8 - team_CTF_redspawn
8 - info_player_deathmatch

8 - team_CTF_blueplayer
8 - team_CTF_bluespawn
8 - info_player_deathmatch
Well, my map isn't a CTF map... but what's the difference between team_CTF_redplayer and team_CTF_redspawn?

Quote from: Akom
@Gig(2): Watch at the step in the aqueduct, bots don't jump always you have to set the grid to 4 and make the floor/plane about maximum 2 step. Make some test in a blank boxed map and watch where bots play as well and where bots don't care about it.... :P....
Excuse me, could you please reword? Form your words, it seems that bots do not go over 8 units, while the Q3Rad_Manual.doc (under "Tools" folder)... in the "Useful Map Information"/"Game physics" states that:
Quote from: Q3Radiant Manual
Step Heights
For scale purposes, “normal” steps should be no higher than 8 units. However, the maximum value that a player may step up is 18 units (just keep steps 16 units or lower).

Normal Jumps
The maximum height for barriers the bots will jump on is 32 units.

Water Jump Heights (or “Everyone, out of the pool!”)
The maximum distance that a bot may jump to exit water is 18 units. This is the height difference between the water surface and the adjacent floor that the bot is jumping onto. If the water jump height is made higher, human players will have a hard time getting out of the water.
I can guess the "water jump heights" section refers to when the water is deep enough to swim, not when it's just a few centimeters.

In version1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661#msg46661) of the map, the aqueduct was 32 units "deep" (8 units of water + 24 units of air), and bots were able to jump out of it, although not always at the first try.
In version2 and version3, the aqueduct is 24 units "deep" (8 units of water + 16 units of air), and bots seem to do not be able to jump out of it.
In version1, the "ceiling" brush of the aqueduct is 16 units thick, while in version2 and 3, it's 8 units... I don't know if this could mean something.

The suggestion from Neon_Knight (botclip hidden step) could be an idea, but I don't understand why the problem happens (and it would be not so fair to have real people having to jump and bots simply walking to get out of there). I'd prefer something else, before choosing that option.

Quote from: Akom
No no, i mean that you have to be inspired by this picture to avoid the box effect. ;D
It's more or less what I tried with version3, but my result does not satisty me too much... What do you think about that, guys?

------------------------------------
Back to testing other maps, I have found a small texture problem in OAJGCTF1ALPHA (see attached screenshot -missing common/caulk on the brushes under the bevels, maybe?-), and I see that, adding some more bots (tried with 8 total players), initial telefrag occurs in FFA mode in OAJGDM1BETA3.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 25, 2013, 11:59:36 am
What's the difference between info_player_start and info_player_deathmatch? My map has got something like 22 info_player_deathmatch and 0 info_player_start.

The info_player_start (human) make the player start in it at the start of the game (once time only), otherwise it will start in the info_player_deathmatch.

Quote from: GiG
Well, my map isn't a CTF map... but what's the difference between team_CTF_redplayer and team_CTF_redspawn?

The team_CTF_red/blueplayer is the starting point at the start of the game.
The team_CTF_red/bluespawn it the starting point when the player dies or the game restart.

Quote from: GiG
Excuse me, could you please reword? Form your words, it seems that bots do not go over 8 units, while the Q3Rad_Manual.doc (under "Tools" folder)... in the "Useful Map Information"/"Game physics" states that:
Quote from: Q3Radiant Manual
Step Heights
For scale purposes, “normal” steps should be no higher than 8 units. However, the maximum value that a player may step up is 18 units (just keep steps 16 units or lower).

Normal Jumps
The maximum height for barriers the bots will jump on is 32 units.

Water Jump Heights (or “Everyone, out of the pool!”)
The maximum distance that a bot may jump to exit water is 18 units. This is the height difference between the water surface and the adjacent floor that the bot is jumping onto. If the water jump height is made higher, human players will have a hard time getting out of the water.
I can guess the "water jump heights" section refers to when the water is deep enough to swim, not when it's just a few centimeters.

In version1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661#msg46661) of the map, the aqueduct was 32 units "deep" (8 units of water + 24 units of air), and bots were able to jump out of it, although not always at the first try.
In version2 and version3, the aqueduct is 24 units "deep" (8 units of water + 16 units of air), and bots seem to do not be able to jump out of it.
In version1, the "ceiling" brush of the aqueduct is 16 units thick, while in version2 and 3, it's 8 units... I don't know if this could mean something.

The suggestion from Neon_Knight (botclip hidden step) could be an idea, but I don't understand why the problem happens (and it would be not so fair to have real people having to jump and bots simply walking to get out of there). I'd prefer something else, before choosing that option.

I dont know what to tell you, make some tests, the waterpool and the exit from the water always give some problem, in one case i have a step of 8 units and all work well, also the bots. In another map i have the same step and i have problem to escape from the waterpool but the bots escape easily....  ??? :P

 ;)


Title: About MX1CTF8_1 and UDESTRUCTION version 4
Post by: Gig on March 26, 2013, 08:27:59 am
@Moixie: For some reason, when playing in CTF Elimination mode in map MX1CTF8_1, just after loading the map, for a few moments, you see it from the external void.

I have no idea which point of view Elimination and CTF Elimination modes use just after map loading (Sago, any hints?). I think it's not the info_player_intermission....  ???

-------------------------------
About UDESTRUCTION.

I've done another try to avoid the "box" effect. This time, I tried to follow the spite of some Jan's maps: using bevels for walls! This causes more triangles shown than I previously thought, but it seems it can work anyway.
I placed common/caulk on the internal side of the "real" map border brushes (that are placed outside from the bevels), so I avoided the "blinking" effect where bevels touch. However, there is still the problem of the textures on different bevels to do not correspond perfectly in the place where they touch... any ideas?

By the way, here I restored the previous aqueduct depth, where bots work.

Let's sum up the various versions up to this moment:
- Version01 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661#msg46661): plain vertical walls.
- Version02 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46677#msg46677): sloping walls.
- Version03 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46725#msg46725): External part, protected by player clip, with few buildings...
- Version04 (attached here): vertical walls, but made of curved surfaces.

What do you like, guys?


Title: Re: About MX1CTF8_1 and UDESTRUCTION version 4
Post by: sago007 on March 26, 2013, 11:49:31 am
I have no idea which point of view Elimination and CTF Elimination modes use just after map loading (Sago, any hints?). I think it's not the info_player_intermission....  ???
I am afraid that is a bug in Elimination. I do know about it but have not yet found a not-ugly solution to the problem that did not create even bigger problems. The start location is in (0,0,0) and if that is inside a wall then you start inside a wall until you spawn. This happens because the spawn routine is disabled until the warm-up time begins and therefore no spawn point is selected.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 26, 2013, 02:40:29 pm
Hi everybody.

I've just started the second CTF map for this mappack.

I've not titled it yet, maybe during the creation i think at something.... :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: fromhell on March 26, 2013, 02:44:16 pm
What's with the tinted screenshot?

p.s. I LIKE CASTLES


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 26, 2013, 02:49:06 pm
What's with the tinted screenshot?

p.s. I LIKE CASTLES

The screenshot was too dark, i've edited it. Next time i hope to give you (all) a better lighted version, and of course one base complete to test....... but time is our big enemy...
Ehm, it's not exactly like a Castle, but something similar :P ...i think.... ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 26, 2013, 02:51:36 pm
Akom, we're on the polishing phase, we already have enough maps for the first volume.
Once Volume 1 is released, we may focus on creating more maps for Volume 2.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 26, 2013, 02:57:46 pm
Akom, we're on the polishing phase, we already have enough maps for the first volume.
Once Volume 1 is released, we may focus on creating more maps for Volume 2.

Ok, sorry.  :P :P

But in volume 1 there are only 3 CTF maps, i've thinked to build another one.....
....but no problem  :P ;D

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on March 26, 2013, 03:10:41 pm
Your map looks very promising. Hold it until we start on Vol. II. (Or keep on working on it, and when the time for Vol 2 is in, you might post it :P)
Right now we're going to polish what we have.


Title: Re: About MX1CTF8_1 and UDESTRUCTION version 4
Post by: Gig on March 27, 2013, 01:31:10 am
I have no idea which point of view Elimination and CTF Elimination modes use just after map loading (Sago, any hints?). I think it's not the info_player_intermission....  ???
I am afraid that is a bug in Elimination. I do know about it but have not yet found a not-ugly solution to the problem that did not create even bigger problems. The start location is in (0,0,0) and if that is inside a wall then you start inside a wall until you spawn. This happens because the spawn routine is disabled until the warm-up time begins and therefore no spawn point is selected.
That initially sounds not a great problem... so I wrote a note about it here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Elimination) (saying that 0,0,0 should not be in external void or in walls, and that should have enough free space for a player around it).
But after adding an entry for it here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Bugs#General), I noticed a previously reported bug, that may be related to this one, but sounds more serious.. because the problem affects the "inactive warmup time" (that may be higher than the default), and is about players spawning dead...
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4452.msg43480#msg43480


Title: UDESTRUCTION V5
Post by: Gig on March 27, 2013, 04:11:47 am
Hi!
Here it is, attached you can find UDESTRUCTION Version5.

It is based upon V4 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46733#msg46733) (Hey! V4 has been downloaded only once!  :-[ I need your feedback about it! Where are you, guys?), and has got these few changes:
- used "func_static" with "gametype" key to remove the "dark tiles" brushes (they are just thin "decorative" brushes, thus I suppose they should not be a problem for bots) that are under the A and B points (or under the flags), if you are not playing DD or CTF (or CTF Elimination) modes.
- added a rocket ammo in the warehouse.

Please pay attention here:
- I digged a "hole" under the scaffholding (may resemble some kind of tomb maybe? I don't know.) to try avoiding the "Elimination/CTF Elimination" initial spawn bug (and I placed a small health bonus there... you can see it only if you don't play in Elimination, of course). Well, this works only partially: after making enough room for a player around 0,0,0 coordinates, now I can move around during that "inactive warmup" time (while before I was only able to look around)... but I still spawn spectating, because I still spawn "died" (like also other characters do, during the inactive warmup).

NOTE: Instead of digging a hole, I may have moved the whole map structure to have some space around 0 0 0, but I didn't to that because in the previous days I noticed that if I move the whole map structure in Q3Radiant, then while running BSPC I got some "invalid bevel" errors. Maybe GTK Radiant or NetRadiant do not have this problem, I don't know. Anyway, I decided to try digging a hole.
What do you think about that hole? Should I keep it? Should I remove it? Do you think it may be (ab)used as a "foxhole" for unfair camping? I think I could keep it (it makes the ground of the map a little less "plain", and I have noticed no problems while playing with bots), but I prefer to hear your opinions.

PS: I really hope that in future Sago may find a way to fix that bug...

----------------
@Jan: Where are you? We need your help to fix your maps...

@Akom: If you don't know what to do while waiting... you may add some "eye candy" to your OACMP1 maps, or add support for DOM and DD (Moixie, you could do the same), or help testing in the various gametypes, searching for problems also in other people's maps.

----------------
PS: Due to Real Life, I think that in the next days I will probably have very very little time for mapping.


Title: Re: UDESTRUCTION V5
Post by: Akom74 on March 27, 2013, 10:46:08 am
@Akom: If you don't know what to do while waiting... you may add some "eye candy" to your OACMP1 maps, or add support for DOM and DD (Moixie, you could do the same), or help testing in the various gametypes, searching for problems also in other people's maps.

I'm doing a little work of fix some issues with the skybox on the oa_akomdm3 and reorganizing the textures/shaders to avoid some conflict.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 27, 2013, 11:28:52 am
By the way, a very very little thing I noticed with oa_akomctf1: take a look to the ammo boxes on the top of the two towers: their positions are inverted... I don't know if that is intentional or not. Not that this makes a big difference, anyway I noticed it.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 27, 2013, 11:44:52 am
By the way, a very very little thing I noticed with oa_akomctf1: take a look the the ammo boxes on the top of the two towers: their positions are inverted... I don't know if that is intentional or not. Not that this makes a big difference, anyway I noticed it.

I've fixed this "issue" and fix some lights on the BFG floor. I've noticed that the skybox give too much light and i will decrease it.

By the way there is an error in oa_akomdm5 too and i have to fix (and recompile) it.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on March 29, 2013, 05:27:32 pm
oa_akomctf1: teleporters are still marked with numbers instead of the weapon icons. Also, when you touch the teleporter from the side, you do not teleport, you need to stand in front of it. They may be designed that way, but it's still not comfortable to always remember to do extra running around teleporter, I would like the trigger area bigger, so you teleport when you touch it from this angle:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-30-00-42-06_zpsb80dac77.png)

udestructionV5: an interesting map, but it has a lot of issues.
I would not call it an archeological site, because archeologists would never dig up such huge amount of soil that was in place of outer map walls. They are mostly digging by hand, to not cause any damage. Abandoned bombed city would be more logical theme here.
The railgun on this map is way overpowered, grab it and you're the king. It should be removed, if you don't want to redo the whole map layout.
Also, the map gives you a lot of spots for camping.
You can place kills across half of the map, while being covered from enemy rockets in your comfy jacuzzi:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-18-33_zps8dde61c4.png)

Camp in the corner, place shots across half of the level, hide from plasma shots behind that stone blocks:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-19-35_zpsbfbca068.png)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-19-42_zps65e00d52.png)

Camp in the building with rocket, blow up everyone who tries to grab it:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-14-31_zps475cfa27.png)

Minor camping spots, in buildings with only two/three doors:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-16-53_zps89094773.png)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-21-23_zpsa1b58810.png)

Another minor thing - to reach megahealth, you need to jump on those three platforms, and you need not to press any movement buttons, or you'll miss the next platform. This goes against my instinct to always keep running, I would rather like those platforms on bigger distance between each other, so you need to go on the first platform and keep pressing forward to reach the next one.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-29-23-24-16_zps8c19d454.png)

Also, maps with many interconnected floors have poor gameplay on cellphone, but it's not that important for PC.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 30, 2013, 06:10:41 am
oa_akomctf1: teleporters are still marked with numbers instead of the weapon icons. Also, when you touch the teleporter from the side, you do not teleport, you need to stand in front of it. They may be designed that way, but it's still not comfortable to always remember to do extra running around teleporter, I would like the trigger area bigger, so you teleport when you touch it from this angle:
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/Screenshot_2013-03-30-00-42-06_zpsb80dac77.png)

I will modify the angle of the trigger_teleport.
The numbers will remain.

Actually i'm fixing and organizing a lot of textures/shader for the official release.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 30, 2013, 08:47:01 am
First of all, I have to specify that the map has not been intended for use with cellphone. It has been intended for being primarily used in Elimination/LMS mode, going everywhere with rocket jumps. In Elimination/LMS, weapon load depends from server admin. However, I had to support FFA mode, of course, and item placement can be adjusted.

1) In the very first weapons placement of the map (I added items only after map structure was almost complete), I placed the railgun in the jail (the smallest building), and I saw that it was used way too much.
So I moved it to a less comfortable place, on the aqueduct, thus giving bots a reason to go up there, and keeping them to not use it too much (before that, I tried to place the railgun on the colums of the "hall of columns", but for some reason bots do not work so much there and almost never took it, so I moved it to the aqueduct).
At the current moment, it seems to me that bots do not abuse railgun (they seem to prefer the plasmagun). Do you think human players would go very much more for it? I don't know how human players would play: I think we really should make a (private) server running OACMP beta and test maps online with other players: bot tests are not enough! (Who could host a temporary server? That would be very useful.) Bots do not tend to stay there for long (I did not place info_camp entities on the aqueduct), but also from your screenshot, it looks half character is exposed to enemy fire when he's in the water, it doesn't look an excellent shield... when you are on the aqueduct, your position is quite easily visible (from higher tower top, from warehouse top, from scaffholding top), isn't it? When I made the aqueduct less deep, bots for some unknown reason had problems getting out if it, so I had to restore the previous depth.
However, I could move the railgun again, and/or make it spawn less frequently (and place fewer ammo boxes for it). Maybe I could add more button-activated rooms like the one with the BFG, and move the railgun there (maybe I could add even a third one with the Invulnerability, and a fourth with something else?). It's just an idea, what do you think, guys?
(By the way, BFG current spawn time is 60 seconds, it that good? At the moment, all other weapons have the default spawn time -5 seconds, IIRC-)

2) About camping in the corner of the destroyed home: testing the map, I edited that garden's walls over and over, making them lower each time (in my first idea, those external were proper "walls"). At the current moment, I suppose you cannot stay there and rail someone and being sure noone will rail you: your head is visible (hence, a target) from the ground floor, and even more if the enemy is at an higher position. However, I could make that wall even a little lower, if you wish.

3) For the small building (jail) with rocket, I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades, if they discover you like to camp in there (also its rounded walls were designed to help this). Do you think that this may work with smart humans only, but bots would not be so smart? How would you modify that place? I thought a prison cell with four doors may have looked strange, so I did only two, but...
What would you think about a (relatively low) jump-pad to simply reach the top of jail, on its outside, to more easily shot at who tries to get the rocket/camp there? And it that case, should I place some kind of item on that roof? It's just an idea...

4) For the fact the higher tower has got less doors/windows than the lower tower, it was due to a (generic) try to help vis portals for game performances (by the way: helping vis portals is also the reason why the warehouse does not have one or two doors more). Do you think camping there is a problem? I had the impression that place isn't very "active", and that camping there could have been quite boring, and thus not very used... However, how do you suggest to change it? Should I open doors/windows? How many? Again, bots don't camp there due to there is no info_camp in that room, and I never played against human players in any OACMP map.

5) For the rocket launcher room in the middle floor of the house, there is no window on the wall that faces the temple again for vis portals reasons, and because of 5 entries to that room seem enough to me (two from the roof, one from the lower floor, one from the roof of the cistern (through the small window) and one from the other window. Of course you can notice that woody box under the stairs is there to prevent you from camping under the stairs, and that, if you stay in the place you are in your screenshot, you can be easily hit by someone on the roof above you (with a rocket), or be wiped out by someone on the aqueduct (in the area between the tower, the warehouse and the cistern) with well, any weapon. However, I could make the two windows in that room a little larger, if you wish.

6) About the three jumps to get the megahealth, at the moment bots work well with it (although they are not so smart to get on the top of the temple or of the warehouse like human players can do from there), and I have fear to do changes to it (maybe I could make the "item_botroam" entities there have even lower "weight", if they use that part too much, what do you think?)...

However, I really think we should test these maps online with real opponents to really find out good things and bad things about actual gameplay in them.

About the "archeological or not" ambientation... the name of the map "Under Destruction" is quite open to any personal interpretation. Each one can consider it what he prefers, I think.  :) :) :) Isn't so? What's the original use of WRACKDM17, OADJDM2 or AM_GALMEVISH, before being used for deathmatches? Who knows, but who cares!  :) Am I wrong?
In the optic of choosing the definitive textures, instead... I don't yet know what I will do... I have yet do dig within OA texture sets.

PS: Thank you for your feedback.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on March 30, 2013, 09:41:25 am
First of all, I have to specify that the map has not been intended for use with cellphone. It has been intended for being primarily used in Elimination/LMS mode, going everywhere with rocket jumps.
You cannot please everyone, so don't mind that. You map still plays much better on the phone than many other OA stock maps with narrow tunnels.
If you play Elimination, the map layout works much better, because everyone has railgun, and camp spots won't give you any advantage.

Quote
Maybe I could add more button-activated rooms like the one with the BFG, and move the railgun there
After you told that, I've spent 5 minutes searching for that button, I've thrown grenades in the windows of that building with BFG, I've tried to rocketjump and shoot there, I've jumped on all the nearby stones, and finally found the button in the aqueduct, I actually stumbled on it before, but I though that was a decoration of faucet to fill that aqueduct with water.

Quote
However, I could move the railgun again, and/or make it spawn less frequently
Swap the locations of BFG and railgun, I think that would be fair, or maybe place BFG in the air instead of megahealth.

Quote
However, I could make that wall even a little lower, if you wish
It's okay as it is, if you play Elimination or hide the railgun in that closed building.

Quote
For the building with rocket (jail), I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades
The nearest grenade launcher is at the roof of another building. I suggest putting another grenade launcher somewhere on the ground, near rocket launcher.

Quote
I had the impression that place isn't very "active", and that camping there could have been quite boring, and thus not very used
There will be no camping in Elimination, so leave it like it is. Even in FFA it's not very good camp spot (aqueduct is much better). The other camp spot is also minor, leave it as it is.

I'll try to set up a test OACMP server, I have some spare hardware.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 30, 2013, 10:10:45 am
Quote
For the building with rocket (jail), I placed the "grate" on the ceiling so people should be able to kill you easily enough by trowing in rockets or grenades
The nearest grenade launcher is at the roof of another building. I suggest putting another grenade launcher somewhere on the ground, near rocket launcher.
At the beginning, when I placed the railgun in the jail, the grenade launcher was in the place where now there is the railgun (on the aqueduct). This allowed for trowing grenades in the grates on jail's roof.
Unfortunately, at that time there were too many players with the railgun, so I moved it to a less crowded place (but not so good for camping as the top of the warehouse would have been), so (after the try in the hall of pillars I mentioned in the previous post) I opted for the aqueduct, and I moved that grenade launcher to somewhere else to make room for the railgun. Of course we can place it elsewhere.

PS: the real reason the BFG building has got those little windows is to give an explaination of why it is not completely dark inside when the door is closed.  :) Should I modify something there?

@All: I don't know if I should keep the current "short name" for the map (UDESTRUCTION, that quickly associates to the longname "Under Destruction") or choose something that reminds Elimination mode (e.g. GIGELIMINATION1, GIGELIM1, GIG_ELIM1, GIG_CA1...).... What do you think about it, guys?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on March 30, 2013, 10:24:19 am
it would be cool to open the door by throwing a grenade in the window. Is it complicated to make that trigger inside the building to also react to explosions?

I think "gig1elimination" would be a nice name, and it fits 15-char limit on map name.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 30, 2013, 11:00:22 am
it would be cool to open the door by throwing a grenade in the window. Is it complicated to make that trigger inside the building to also react to explosions?
I don't know if it is possible to make the same trigger react to both touch and damage (maybe Akom knows), but I think it should be possible at least to make another trigger, that would react to damage.

However, I don't know if I want that door to open this way. :-\
If you open the door from distance (with the button on the aqueduct), you accept the risk that someone else may grab the big gun before you do... but if you are next to the building, maybe grabbing it becomes too easy (on the other hand, it's also true that you would first need to have a grenade launcher as pre-requisite...). I don't know.  :-\
And I don't know the look to give to that new trigger... 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 30, 2013, 11:21:50 am
@GiG: (1) To make the door open with a granade you have to set the "health" key in the entity menu'.
(2) In your map there are the blue and red flags, you mean to make your map playable in team OA gamemodes such as CTF-Elimination DD and Domination ? This is cool if you do it.

The server idea it's a good idea but we came from different country with different time zone....
....and of course, we need to have the same version of OA with the official pack, not alpha versione 1 2 3 and more.



Update:
Some shaders give me errors, i have changed some textures directory and maybe i forgot something.....
....when i finish to fix this issue i can take more time to edit the maps.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 30, 2013, 11:30:50 am
@GiG: (1) To make the door open with a granade you have to set the "health" key in the entity menu'.
(2) In your map there are the blue and red flags, you mean to make your map playable in team OA gamemodes such as CTF-Elimination DD and Domination ? This is cool if you do it.

The map is already playable in DD mode (some feedback would be welcome), I think it is listed in .arena for that.

Technically, CTF-Elimination is already possible just like CTF, because I created the flags with the "gametype/ctf, dd" key, but as I told some days ago, I did not list them in the .arena, because of the map is not symmetrical and it does not have "team" spawn points, so the gameplay would be a little "strange". Do you think I should?  ???

I plan to add Domination support, when I will finally decide to switch to NetRadiant, add TA weapons and change some textures.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on March 30, 2013, 11:45:33 am
I've tested udestruction in DD mode, and it works fine, aside from the fact that I've searched for locations of nodes a bit too long (I thought they are on the roofs, but one of them is inside the building, and another is on the ground). The ground node may be a bit too easy to defend, because there is a lightning gun right near it, and plasma nearby. Inside the buildings you only got the option of a shotgun, there are rockets nearby, but you need to run away from node to grab them.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Moixie on March 30, 2013, 03:59:34 pm
Good evening !
Here is the new mxdm5 version ! (in attachment)

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4156)

Actually, the map could only be played on FFA, TDM and Tourney, now, I changed it so much that it is playable in any gametype. (yeah, I made a ctf version with special things which only appear on team gametypes, as shown on the picture).
Then, there are no target_locations (but it should not so important, the map is so small that it's not so hard to know where are others), and the central door texture didn't change (I couldn't find better =/). However, it seems that the map has a good gameplay in any gametype.



In the actual map pack version, some levelshots (Jan's ? Do not remember) are really heavy (?), from 100kB to 400kB whereas others are around 50/100 kB. Should we change them ?

I had another question. It would be really useful to test our map online with real people. Many mistakes can't be found because bots aren't as stupid as a human player can be. Then, their ideas could be interesting, so here is what I wanted to ask, is there any project of testing maps before the final reach date ? This would help us for polishing maps and this would also be a good way to promote the mappack.



Ps: on the domination gametype, take the jumps to open the door under the domination point. It's fun. I already fixed it, it'll work well on the next version.

Pps: I thought that I fixed the problem but in fact it doesn't work as good as I thought. It seems like we can't put a domination point on a func_door, if anyone has a solution...
I fixed the grenade and the flags in dd. grenade launchers appeared whereas they shouldn't, B point didn't appear where it should.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on March 30, 2013, 05:06:23 pm
I've set up a dedicated server, which hosts beta2 of OACMP, and latest versions of udestruction and mxdm5 maps, you can vote to change map/gametype etc. It's called "OA Community Map Pack Beta2". It has two bots, as usual.

@Neon_Knight: the first post contains symlink to beta1 instead of beta2. Also, your file hosting kinda sucks, I'm getting some 30-50Kb download speed. I can put it to my sourceforge.net directory (https://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/), and there are a lot of other file hosting options for open-source stuff.

BTW, I've heard that some players hate bots, but as I've understood, it's mainly because you cannot tell from serverlist if the server has humans or only bots. So, what if servers would only show amount of human players in the server list, ignoring the bots? It seems fairly easy to fix, of course not everyone will update their dedicated server, but it will improve things on the long run.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Moixie on March 30, 2013, 05:24:27 pm
So, what if servers would only show amount of human players in the server list, ignoring the bots? It seems fairly easy to fix, of course not everyone will update their dedicated server, but it will improve things on the long run.

It already exists. Since 0.8.5 (?), you can set the parameter "only humans" (from the Oa serverlist) so you can only see the amount of human players on servers and ignore bots.

Ps: 100 posts !!! I made it !


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 31, 2013, 12:36:02 am
I had another question. It would be really useful to test our map online with real people. Many mistakes can't be found because bots aren't as stupid as a human player can be. Then, their ideas could be interesting, so here is what I wanted to ask, is there any project of testing maps before the final reach date ? This would help us for polishing maps and this would also be a good way to promote the mappack.

I agree with that. We must try this pack online, every mapper know his own map as his hands, but another player could see something that the original mapper dont see.
Playing with bots is not the best way to try map's features, yes it's useful for offline play but when the mappack will be released, the community will give us plenty of comments and i hope they will be positives........ :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on March 31, 2013, 09:44:42 am
For the test server: I will not be able to try it before Tuesday, however I think that it should be private. And maybe one may use a fake mod folder, to avoid problems?

Then, we should try to organize a time to play together.
How many different timezones are involved? Me and Akom are from Italy (GMT+1? We switched to Summer time today.). Maybe the old (and not so successful) "Swatch internet time" may help?

______
About udestruction in DD mode: it's also the impression I had: one base is easier to attack, the other one easier to defend. Do you think this may work well anyway, considering one has to keep both bases at the same time?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on March 31, 2013, 12:55:33 pm
For the test server: I will not be able to try it before Tuesday, however I think that it should be private. And maybe one may use a fake mod folder, to avoid problems?

Then, we should try to organize a time to play together.
How many different timezones are involved? Me and Akom are from Italy (GMT+1? We switched to Summer time today.). Maybe the old (and not so successful) "Swatch internet time" may help?

Today i have play with bot two times with 120/130 ping. With humans it will be better, like said before.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Moixie on March 31, 2013, 04:50:52 pm
I am from france (GMT+1 too).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 01, 2013, 06:11:27 am

This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server. :D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 01, 2013, 09:17:22 am

This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server. :D

;)
Here it will be 16:00 (4:00 PM GMT -3), and I won't be available in that time. I'm sorry. :/


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 01, 2013, 09:28:37 am

This evening at 08 pm (in italy GMT+1)

We will try the Pelya server. :D

;)
Here it will be 16:00 (4:00 PM GMT -3), and I won't be available in that time. I'm sorry. :/

Maybe another time, ...or tomorrow ? Tell us the time you are more "comfortable" (it's that right?? :P ).

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 01, 2013, 09:36:42 am
Don't worry about me. Today since that hour I will be absent from my house.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 01, 2013, 09:40:12 am
Ok, i have try to recruit you :P :P

By the way i will take some screenshots of the event :P :D

;)


EDIT: I've found a probably bug in GiG map in Elimination mode, it give me (only(?)) an error.
This is the error: inline model - bad number

Why ??

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 02, 2013, 12:50:18 am
I've never noticed that error. When does it happen? At map launch? After? With how many bots? ???
Does it happen only when playing online or also offline?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 02, 2013, 02:21:52 am
I just tried it, I have to thank Pelya for the test server.

But:
- The server is not password protected
- The server has autodownload enabled
- The maps are placed in "baseoa" instead of in a fake-mod folder (e.g. OACMPbeta2)
Hence, anyone may connect to the server and play (and this may be good, giving us more chances to find someone to play with), but then he will autodownload incomplete versions of the maps, and find them in their baseoa. This may cause problems, someone may place them in other servers, etc.
I really suggest to use a fake-mod folder on the server, to be easily deleted when it will not be required anymore, and to do not place unfinished maps in normal users baseoa folder.

PS: I may be online in the next few hours... write here if you are around, and I will join the server if I can.

PPS: If someone has got some infos about the error Akom found, that would be appreciated.


Title: Guys, I need help
Post by: Gig on April 02, 2013, 08:52:41 am
Guys, I need help!

I just opened my map with NetRadiant 1.5 instead of with Q3Radiant as usual, wishing to add TA stuff to it.

1) But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?

2) Another thing I find problematic is the fact that special brushes as "hint" and "trigger" are not semi-transparent like they look in Q3Radiant.

Thank you in advance.

P.S.: I downloaded NetRadiant 1.5 (with OA support included) from the first post of this thread.
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0
3) It does not seem to contain bspc.exe. Should I continue use the one that I had with Q3Radiant, or is there an updated version somewhere?

4) P.P.S.: More, it fails to load various textures (e.g. those of the medkit). Why does?


Title: Re: Guys, I need help
Post by: sago007 on April 02, 2013, 09:10:32 am
But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?
You don't need to align every item perfectly. Unless the "SUSPENDED"-flag is set then the item will drop to the ground automatically. This does not include spawn locations and the obelisks are buggy as you know (only the graphical representation falls to the ground).


Title: Re: Guys, I need help
Post by: Gig on April 02, 2013, 09:28:07 am
But I don't understand... in Q3Radiant, when I select an item (e.g. a weapon), I see the "box" around it that shows me exactly the space occupied by that item, so I can perfectly align this "box" with the ground.
While selecting an item in NetRadiant, instead, i can see the "origin" of the model, but not its complete bounding box. How can I manage this? How can I know I correctly aligned it?
You don't need to align every item perfectly. Unless the "SUSPENDED"-flag is set then the item will drop to the ground automatically. This does not include spawn locations and the obelisks are buggy as you know (only the graphical representation falls to the ground).
You're right... but it does not seem very "professional".
IIRC, if you place an item in the air without the "suspendend" flag, it will be dropped to the ground at its first spawning, and I'm unsure but maybe you may actually see it falling.
IIRC, this happens only at the first spawn, while at later spawns, it already appears on the ground (in my first test map, I made a button to "release" a powerup that was placed high, making it fall down -by removing a "cage" I placed around it- and thus allowing you to grab it... but the next time, it spawned already on the ground... so I abandoned that idea).

Does also GTKRadiant show items in the same way as NetRadiant?

PS: I'm compiling the map with the option that mentions "simulate old style -light -extra"... is that the one I should use? It looks like compiling here takes much longer than with the old program...  :-\


Title: Obelisks
Post by: Gig on April 03, 2013, 01:50:07 am
Another question. I'm trying to use the "better aligned models" for the obelisks.

Recap:
While the neutral obelisk (skull generator/optional white flag base) model seems correctly aligned since the beginning (its "origin" is at its bottom - maybe just a very very little too high, like one unit), the red and blue obelisks are clearly misaligned (their "origins" are at their top). If one does not correctly make the "origin" point touch the ground, bots will not correctly work in Overload mode, attacking the wrong player.
More infos:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Overload
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3051.0

So, I download the z_alignedmodels.pk3 file from that thread and I placed it into my baseoa folder. Then I launched NetRadiant, and tried to add a red or blue obelisk again: they (well, the "bases") still look with the "misaligned" model. What am I missing/doing wrong?
I don't know it this may be somehow related to the fact that NetRadiant does not load some textures (e.g. ammo boxes), I don't know why. Ideas?


Title: UDESTRUCTION Version 6
Post by: Gig on April 03, 2013, 06:58:50 am
Hi guys! How do you do?

Under Destruction V6 is attached to this post.
It's a major update, although map layout is mostly the same.

I try to write a changelog against the previous V5:
- Against camping, enlarged a little the windows on the middle floor of the house, and enlarged the doors on the ground floor of the higher tower.
- Against camping, made a grating in a wall of the jail: you can now look (and shoot) in.
- Against camping, lowered a little that wall Pelya mentioned (on the rear of the lightning gun area -ruined house-).
- Added a second "big door" like the one with the BFG, this one containing the Invulnerability instead. Made activating buttons a little more noticeable. I'm unsure if I should keep those buttons there, or move them to help bots (where?).
- To prevent hiding from the battle like a coward, in Elimination mode the two big doors (as well as their activating buttons) are REMOVED (they are there in all other gametypes, instead). Only the proper "doors", not the entire structures.
- Added a jump-pad to easily reach the aqueduct, and moved a grenade launcher near it.
- Added a small ramp that links the aqueduct to the top of the hall of pillars.
- Added one more Rocket Launcher (as Akom suggested once), on the top of the hall of pillars.
- Added the three TA weapons (prox launcher, chaingun, nailgun).
- Added Domination support (5 domination points)
- Added One Flag CTF support. It sounds strange, but it's funny! Try it! Of course, captures are really fast (reminder: the map does not have team spawn points, hence "bases" are just an idea; however, they are in the same place of the DD points). Do you think that I correcly placed the white flag more or less at the same distance from both flags? Or should I move it?
- Additional gametypes added to the .arena file.
- If you set g_runes 1 (and restart the map, it's set to 0 by default), you will find the TA runes! There are only four of them, one per kind, and they are NOT team-specific.

Spawn times are:
- TA weapons: 30 seconds
- Railgun: 45 seconds (and now there are only two ammo boxes for it)
- BFG: 60 seconds
- Invulnerability: 60 seconds
- All other weapons: default time (controlled by g_weaponTeamrespawn variable -default 30- for TDM mode and g_weaponrespawn variable -default 5- for other gametypes. I never really understood why ID Software chose so different values... I can only imagine to make things harder, and to force different players to use different weapons in TDM mode).
- Portable medkit, Ammo boxes and Powerups (haste, environment suit): default times

What do you think about these respawn times?

Could you please test the map in various gametypes and tell me about bugs or your opinions?

- I'm waiting for help with the things I mentioned in the posts above, to add Harvester and Overload support.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 03, 2013, 04:28:45 pm
I really suggest to use a fake-mod folder on the server, to be easily deleted when it will not be required anymore, and to do not place unfinished maps in normal users baseoa folder

Did that, also updated udestruction on server.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 04, 2013, 01:42:48 am
@Pelya: Thank you! If you wish, I suppose you could even make bots a little harder -from 2.0 to 3.0?- by tweaking g_spskill variable (that affects bots added after you change the variable).

@Moixie: I've tested MX1DM5_T1 (do not confuse with mx1dm5, which is a previous version) on the server, in various gametypes. Nice, but:
- Especially when playing online, there is the risk that, after passing through the "floor door", you may fall back before it closes. Maybe you could try to push the player higher, to give him some more time before returning to the ground (a little more time for the hatch to close).
- In objective-based gametypes, where the objectives are at the upper floor, it is more clear the problem that bots are not comfortable with using the jump-pads to get to the upper floor... they do not seem very interested into reaching the flags!
- In Double Domination, where is point "B"?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 04, 2013, 11:57:04 am
I'm little busy to rebuild some maps, cause the scripts call different textures folder now.
I have started two new maps for the other Beta, but now i'm stopped to solve some issues for scripts/textures.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 04, 2013, 12:13:16 pm
I've tried the new udestruction map in FFA mode.
The jump pad near railgun makes gameplay much more fair, you cannot grab it and safely camp in the aqueduct, also it makes learning the level faster, because you don't need to walk around half of the level to get to the railgun (or maybe I suck at rocket jumps). The ramp is also a welcome addition.
The window in the building with a rocket launcher eliminates the camping spot.
I don't understand why did you put an invulnerability behind the closed door, if there's much more powerful battle suit powerup in the open area, above the plasmagun. With invulnerability you cannot move, and it lasts for only 6 railgun shots. I suggest removing invulnerability altogether, and placing battle suit instead of it in the secret room.
The TA weapons are nice addition, especially nailgun - it's powerful, but flying so slowly that it becomes almost useless at the big distances of the level, so it's okay to put it right in the center of the level.
The chaingun however is powerful, and it also has limited use for sniping, because it's instahit weapon, so I would put it somewhere on the rooftop, or in place of the battle suit, to compensate railgun at the other side of the level.
And I would remove proximity mine launcher altogether, because there are lot of tight places where you can place mines and gain cheap frags, the room with rocket launcher for example, or entries to the building.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Moixie on April 04, 2013, 04:38:37 pm
- Especially when playing online, there is the risk that, after passing through the "floor door", you may fall back before it closes. Maybe you could try to push the player higher, to give him some more time before returning to the ground (a little more time for the hatch to close).

When I made the door, I tried to make it close exactly when the player touches the ground. But online, it seems like there is a litlle delay and it doesn't work anymore. I reduced the time needed to close and made the player jump a bit quicker.

- In objective-based gametypes, where the objectives are at the upper floor, it is more clear the problem that bots are not comfortable with using the jump-pads to get to the upper floor... they do not seem very interested into reaching the flags!

I hate bots. I don't know how to do. Actually, you an reach the jumpads without jumping, so I thought they would be able to take them but they can't. Do I have to add a certain entity ? Do I have to make the jump-pads nearer of the platforms ? Do I have to create a way between platforms and jumppads with botclip ? (they would fly, wouldn't they?)

- In Double Domination, where is point "B"?

I noticed and fixed it, it now works perfectly.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 05, 2013, 01:06:05 am
@Pelya:
Well, the aqueduct height was not intended to be directly reached with a single rocket jump, but to be almost aligned with the roof of the house of pillars and with the area between the lower tower, the warehouse and the cistern top. You can rocket-jump there with two rocket jumps (one to reach the top of the jail), and I don't exclude someone really good with rj may do it directly... however, now that there is that jump-pad, it should not be a problem anymore.

The reason I added Environment Suit to the map is to allow someone to make "free" rocketjumps also when not playing Elimination mode. When I placed it, I did not have placed flags in the map, so I'm not sure it's still the best place for it... for some time, I even thought about replacing the "haste" in the higher tower with a second "environment suit" to balance...

I placed the Invulnerability because of I had the impression too few maps have it, and I placed prox mines because they are the only counter-measure to invulnerability (and because I liked to do a map with all weapons available  ;D).
Initial load of mines is just 5, and there are only three ammo boxes for it (that give 10 ammo each), in different places of the arena. Considering I set that weapon to spawn every 30 seconds, I don't know how much it may be abused... bots do not seem to use it a lot, but again I'd like to know how human beings would play (I have not found other players on the server yet). In akom's CTF map, BFG and prox mines spawn (alternately) more often. However, I may remove one ammo box if you wish.

So, should I move some items? Should I remove the second "big door" and place the invulnerability there or somewhere else?
I was also thinking about moving the BFG button somewhere on the ground floor, e.g. on an (internal or external?) wall of the house of pillars... or should I leave it where it is?

@Moixie:
I hate bots. I don't know how to do. Actually, you an reach the jumpads without jumping, so I thought they would be able to take them but they can't. Do I have to add a certain entity ? Do I have to make the jump-pads nearer of the platforms ? Do I have to create a way between platforms and jumppads with botclip ? (they would fly, wouldn't they?)
Bots are quite a mystery to me. I've had to do many changes to my map, just allow them to work better. Sometimes, a small edit in one part of the map caused bots to do not work as before in a larger area. As I told some pages ago, once I tried to make a jump lower to help them, and for some reason they stopped doing it at all!

I opened your map in NetRadiant. I see that from the trigger_push, you point to a target_position (ok), but that target_position is also linked to a target_push. I don't understand what this exactly is. From its description, it seems something like a different way to make bounce pads (they say it's not client side predicted -whatever this means!- and mention trigger_multiple instead of trigger_push). I don't know what's this stuff for. In my map -just like Akom does, I opened oa_akomctf1 to check- I just link a trigger_push (starting from a "common/trigger" brush) to a target_position entity and nothing more. On the other hand, I compile with Q3MAP from Q3Radiant... when I compiled with Q3MAP2 from NetRadiant, then I saw strange warnings (something like "trigger_push start solid" or something similar, I don't remember exactly) when BSPC was creating the AAS file... due to this and other reasons, I returned compiling my map from the older program.

However, why I don't find item_botroam entities in your map? I had to place various of them in my map. They are very useful to make bots go where they don't seem interested to go. Remember to set the "weight" key (do some tests spectating one or more bots, to try to guess if you used too high or too low weights). IIRC, the Q3 Radiant .doc manual (or maybe I read that somewhere else?) says that if you flag them as "suspended" but they are placed too high mid-air, bots will try to touch them only if they are reachable using a jump-pad.

Just a note: it even exists info_camp entity to tell bots about places adapt to "camp" (looking around waiting for some opponent, when they get bored of roaming without findind someone), but probably your map does not require them.

@All: I still don't understand that team_blueobelisk and team_redobelisk thing. Opening oa_akomctf1 in NetRadiant, I see them with the "origin" touching the ground (correctly), and with the model that is completely buried in the ground. When playing in Overload mode, the model of the "base" is not visible (unless you use noclip or r_showtris after devmap), because it is drawn completely in the ground. But when playing in CTF, Oneflag or Harvester mode, the model of the "base" is drawn in the "right" place (where it should be if the model was correctly made). I really don't understand how to explain that. Could someone please tell me?

PS: I see 0.8.8 patch pk3 contains md3 models for them.... are those the same of z_alignedmodels.pk3, or other versions?

PPS: By the way, Akom, I noticed you did not place any item_botroam entity in oa_akomctf1, couldn't it be useful to have bots using lateral ways (around the buildings) a little more, maybe? just an idea...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 05, 2013, 08:33:34 am
@All: I still don't understand that team_blueobelisk and team_redobelisk thing. Opening oa_akomctf1 in NetRadiant, I see them with the "origin" touching the ground (correctly), and with the model that is completely buried in the ground. When playing in Overload mode, the model of the "base" is not visible (unless you use noclip or r_showtris after devmap), because it is drawn completely in the ground. But when playing in CTF, Oneflag or Harvester mode, the model of the "base" is drawn in the "right" place (where it should be if the model was correctly made). I really don't understand how to explain that. Could someone please tell me?

Where is the problem ?? Just copy and paste them into your map, aligned as it is in my map. It will work perfectly  ;D ;D

PPS: By the way, Akom, I noticed you did not place any item_botroam entity in oa_akomctf1, couldn't it be useful to have bots using lateral ways (around the buildings) a little more, maybe? just an idea...

The botroam are not needed, depends from what bot you use, some bot roam normally and from the backdoor passage, but you have to think more at the online play, humans players will roam everywhere. You have to try versus Adriano  ;D ;D
By the way, i will put some botroam just to see what appen.

Now i'm fixing all my maps for the official release.

oa_akomdm1 is fixed.
oa_akomdm2 have now a new skybox with stars, i have fixed some textures issues after the scripts are changed.
oa_akomdm3 is "work in progress" to fix the light and the sky....... :P....
oa_akomdm4 need to be fixed in the frontal sky and in the back sky as you have see.
oa_akomdm5 is fixed and now you can not jump in the stone robot place without die.
oa_akomctf1: i will insert some bot roam item.
;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 05, 2013, 12:00:14 pm
oa_akomdm3 is "work in progress" to fix the light and the sky....... :P....
This map is ideal, it's so beautiful you never need to look at the sky  :D  also it's my favorite.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 06, 2013, 04:01:27 am
About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 06, 2013, 08:36:03 am
About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 06, 2013, 09:09:01 am
About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

;)
What? The change I proposed was AGAINST camping. Currently, also considering that teleporter is one-way, one might enter the secret door and wait there for minutes without seeing other players, and being warned of their arrival seeing the door moving. That's an hiding place that may be abused to reach the end of the round with more health than others, avoiding the battle as much as possible.
I proposed to remove the door (in elimination and lms modes only) to make it more quick to see if someone is hiding there, without the need to wait for the port to open. Or you may also remove the part of wall next to the door, leaving the teleporter exposed, completely removing the hiding spot (one should check bots do not have problems with a such gametype-dependent wall, maybe).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 06, 2013, 09:35:35 am
About oa_akomdm3... what about using !gametype key to remove the secret passage door (making that passage always open) while playing in Elimination and LMS modes? I suppose that should make camping there a little less useful to survive the match cowardly.
It's just an idea.

I dont think so, favorite campers is not a good idea for me.
By the way, the map is finally fixed with a new skybox with fixed light.

;)
What? The change I proposed was AGAINST camping. Currently, also considering that teleporter is one-way, one might enter the secret door and wait there for minutes without seeing other players, and being warned of their arrival seeing the door moving. That's an hiding place that may be abused to reach the end of the round with more health than others, avoiding the battle as much as possible.
I proposed to remove the door (in elimination and lms modes only) to make it more quick to see if someone is hiding there, without the need to wait for the port to open. Or you may also remove the part of wall next to the door, leaving the teleporter exposed, completely removing the hiding spot (one should check bots do not have problems with a such gametype-dependent wall, maybe).

Sorry, i misunderstanding  ::) :P
By the way, you can't see nothing, you can hear the door moving but once you enter the spot and take the ammo you never come back, you dont see the wall rear you when you enter ?
I'm not sure if i have understand right what you mean...... :P...


Update:

oa_akomdm1: Fix in progress....
oa_akomdm2: Fixed !
oa_akomdm3: Fixed !
oa_akomdm4: Fixing the moving stars.....
oa_akomdm5: Fixed !
oa_akomctf1: Fixed !

If someone is asking himself why i have to fix a lot of things, i have to answer him that's because i have reordined the scripts files and the textures folders.......by the way you will see.... ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 07, 2013, 11:36:51 am
I'm writing from phone and I can't check the map now (I'm relying on my -not very good- memory). However, also if you cannot come back because you can open the door only from the external part, this does not prevent you from hiding inside it, and using the teleporter only when someone else will open the door (at that moment, you may even wait for the second player appearing on the other side of the teleporter!).

"A" enters the secret door, takes ammo.
"A" hides there.
"B" and "C" battle on other parts of the arena.
C kills B, but is weakened. A is still at full health.
C seaches for A.
Two options:
Scenery 1: C does not find A before match ends. A wins because he has got more health left.
Scenery 2: C activates the secret door. A hears that and then enters the portal, turns back and starts shooting at the place where he spawned. An instant later, C enters the portal, and re-appears with A already shooting at him. C dies, A wins the round.

It's just a fear, I don't know if that would be really abused this way...

P.S.: Idea! What about making the secret door expose a hole, with floating ammo and portal on the bottom? That would make hiding impossible!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 07, 2013, 12:25:16 pm
I don't think such complicated scheme may be used to gain some real advantage, maybe just to hide and frustrate other players in Elimination mode. Anyway, Akom, if you could make it so that the sliding wall in the secret room would kill the player hiding there, it would be nice.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 07, 2013, 01:59:27 pm
Ehi ehi, i'm the one who drink in the week end, don't steal my rule !!  :P :P ;D

@Gig & Pelya: You can stay in front of the door till it close, and you cannot be hurted. If you run to take the ammo you cannot come back, try the map with the pc and try it, by the way i have finish to fix the oa_akomdm3 and if some one want to edit he can with the original .map file once the official mappack will be released. By the way, you have to fight Adriano !! There is no place where you can hide !! He find you and frag you in 2 seconds.....

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 08, 2013, 02:56:58 am
As I said, I was talking relying on my -not so good- memory, before.
Now I actually tried the map. It turns out that, in fact, camping there could be a very bad idea, because the camper may be killed without even noticing!
The problem is that this thing looks weird... that's a one-way wall against the laws of physics... ???

Explaination to other people:
When you enter the secret passage and do a step towards the portal, you see a wall suddently appearing behind you, out of nowhere. From the inside of the passage, that is a "solid" wall (your shots will hit that wall).
From the outside of the passage, you don't see that wall, and your shots will pass through it.
Look at the screenshots, with the same scene as viewed by two different players: the player which is outside can see (and hit) the player that is inside; the player that is inside sees only a solid wall (other players and bullets of any kind could suddently appear through it, out of nowhere).

Hence, you're right that's not a very good camping spot. One might still hide there in Elimination/LMS, but that's really not as safe as I imagined.
The only problem is the strange effect of a such "ghost" wall...  :-\

P.S.: You mentioned Adriano... any news from him? His feedback about OACMP maps in this thread would be welcome...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 08, 2013, 11:30:48 am
The "wall of mistery" is a simple_patch_mesh  ;D

No news form Adriano yet, maybe he has some work and the real life takes much time as you know.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: adriano on April 09, 2013, 02:44:55 pm
Hello all,
here I am, thanks for the words, Gig and Akom!
@Gig: I am glad to help engaged people (who wants to bring OA forward) where I can.
@Akom: I am a gamer. And it is not the first year in OA. ;)
I read the forum a bit yesterday, but hadn't time to response. So I do it now.^^

Well, I'll tell only the things I would change on several maps of this pack:

╠moixie's ctf map┤
# I tend always to run on the upper floor on left or right side. Flagg to flagg in 6 seconds...it is nearly a straight way (see shoot0001)
--> 2 solutions:
a) add a jumppad where the rocket is and move rocket before jumppad (see shoot0000)
b) make something (obstacles/door closer) that you can't easily go straight (see red line on shot0001 again)

╠moixie's dm map┤
#as I said to you already, replace 2of4 LG's up there with 2 plasma (4LG's in a row are too much)

╠akom's ctf map┤
#Idk if I said already, but I think, when you want to use a BFG, then not with 20ammo (cause with 20 attemps even a noob hits you), 10 are enough

╠akom's dm2 map┤
#Just a little thing: I think you set a clip under the skybox, but it is a little bit too low when you make a rocketjump on jumppad
-> I would move the clip a bit higher, so that you can freely move also in high in air

╠akom's dm4 map┤
#Moixie said to me that the rail is overpowered there, especially because of the gravitation you can take all the time in the world to make the rail shot =)
Well, there is something true on it.^^
-> replace rail with another weapon then

╠akom's dm5 map┤
#for sure someone already said it... you can jump on the platform of the 2 men without dieing (see shot0003)

╠jangroothuijse's ctf map┤
#I think there is two much health on one place, I would delet the one in the middle (see shot0004)
#I would replace the +25 on side way with yellow armor
#there is a +25 misplaced on both bases
#there is a little piece with red texture on blue base (near shotgun)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: adriano on April 09, 2013, 03:16:42 pm
I continue with a new post, because picture uploads are limitted to 4. So...

╠jangroothuijse's dm1 map┤
#the rocket on high platform is intentionally not in the center?
#some walls seem to don't fit together or there are little stripes between them (see shot0008) ->take a look again on your .map ...maybe there are mistakes?

╠jangroothuijse's dm2 map┤
#I think the map itself is basically too big
#there are some places where you can jump on another platform just with a good circlejump or with 2 or more jumps (I think it should be to make in one easy circlejump)
#I don't really like how the shape goes thinner and thinner to the wall -> better do something like a ledge (see shot0010)
#and maybe someone don't notice that this is a teleporter! (see shot0011)

╠jangroothuijse's dm3 map┤
#Moixie proposed to add also a speed-item...why not?
#as you know, the walls near flight-item doesn't fit together, but it looks also a bit strange when you look the pillar from down (from above there is a white texture, from down it is invisible) (see shot0014)

╠gig's map┤
#the +5 are spread here and there and not in a group (normally I would say it's not good but in destruction-map it may fit well)->ok
#the jumppads on the ground are a little bit too flat, so that you maybe don't notice them when you stay a bit far away of it and maybe you don't find how to get on upper platforms in a fast way) -> the moving effect of jangroothuijse's jumppads (in this case: white rings moving up) would fit well here, so you can easily see the jumppads also from far away. Brown/yellow squares moving up could be a solution.

However... it is nice to see new maps and a lot of them has their own special style which isn't so common in OA. It is defenitely something new.


Byeeee


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 10, 2013, 01:13:54 am
╠gig's map┤
#the +5 are spread here and there and not in a group (normally I would say it's not good but in destruction-map it may fit well)->ok
#the jumppads on the ground are a little bit too flat, so that you maybe don't notice them when you stay a bit far away of it and maybe you don't find how to get on upper platforms in a fast way) -> the moving effect of jangroothuijse's jumppads (in this case: white rings moving up) would fit well here, so you can easily see the jumppads also from far away. Brown/yellow squares moving up could be a solution.

Thank you. I don't know if I will be able to do something similar. I have no idea about shader writing. Maybe I could try to re-use jan's effect... but I don't know...
Or maybe could I simply make the external borders of the jump-pads with a "more colored" texture?


@All: still about obelisks, I have also another question. If I place an obelisk over a decorative "gametype-dependent func-static brush" thin platform, should I align the origin with that "ghost" platform, or with the worldspawn floor under it, to avoid bots Overload bug? Considering that bots consider such "ghost" walls like being there also in the gametypes such brushes do not appear, I imagine I should align the obelisk to those, but I prefer to ask.
However, I think I may also try a different approach, placing the thin colored "plaftorm" around the belisk instead of directly under it. But I was curious to know.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 10, 2013, 09:51:29 am
╠akom's ctf map┤
#Idk if I said already, but I think, when you want to use a BFG, then not with 20ammo (cause with 20 attemps even a noob hits you), 10 are enough.

For the BFG 20 ammo is the default value, i can not modify it.

Quote from: adriano
╠akom's dm2 map┤
#Just a little thing: I think you set a clip under the skybox, but it is a little bit too low when you make a rocketjump on jumppad
-> I would move the clip a bit higher, so that you can freely move also in high in air.

Done, now the sky is higher than before and the map have another skybox with stars and asteroids.

Quote from: adriano
╠akom's dm4 map┤
#Moixie said to me that the rail is overpowered there, especially because of the gravitation you can take all the time in the world to make the rail shot =)
Well, there is something true on it.^^
-> replace rail with another weapon then.

Maybe i can change the railgun with the rocketlauncher.

Quote from: adriano
╠akom's dm5 map┤
#for sure someone already said it... you can jump on the platform of the 2 men without dieing (see shot0003)

Fixed, now you die if go there  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 10, 2013, 10:42:32 am
╠akom's ctf map┤
#Idk if I said already, but I think, when you want to use a BFG, then not with 20ammo (cause with 20 attemps even a noob hits you), 10 are enough.

For the BFG 20 ammo is the default value, i can not modify it.
Isn't there the "count" key to modify that?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 10, 2013, 11:37:49 am
╠akom's ctf map┤
#Idk if I said already, but I think, when you want to use a BFG, then not with 20ammo (cause with 20 attemps even a noob hits you), 10 are enough.

For the BFG 20 ammo is the default value, i can not modify it.
Isn't there the "count" key to modify that?

Whoops, you're right, i've forgot that key  :P
I will modify the entity ammo count.

P.S.: oa_akomdm4 Modified and skybox fixed.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 11, 2013, 09:24:08 am
P.S.: oa_akomdm4 Modified and skybox fixed.
;)
What did you place in the place of the railgun? A rocket launcher? The map already has one... what about making it spawn "teamed" with a TA weapon? Just an idea...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 11, 2013, 09:42:16 am
P.S.: oa_akomdm4 Modified and skybox fixed.
;)
What did you place in the place of the railgun? A rocket launcher? The map already has one... what about making it spawn "teamed" with a TA weapon? Just an idea...

Now the rocketlauncher replace the railgun and the railgun replace the rocketlauncher.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 12, 2013, 11:25:46 am
Pelya, it looks like your http server replies 403 (forbidden) when the game tries to autodownload z_udestruction-v06.pk3... and you return to main menu.
Strange, I thought that, with sv_allowdownload 1, in case of problems downloading via HTTP, the game would have reverted to UDP...
Maybe that fallback mechanism works with 404 (file not found) errors, but not with 403 errors?  ???
Sago, any hint?
(Anyway I have to check my cl_allowdownload value... I could have set it to 4 -http only- for some test years ago? That's unlikely, but I have to check.)

About my map... during the next week I should give you a new version, with Harvester and Overload support, and with "arrows" that should help players find gametype objectives such as flags...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on April 13, 2013, 06:16:22 am
@All, thanks for the feedback, you'll be seeing the results in the coming week.

New version of oajgdm3:
jan.groothuijse.net/img/z_zoajgdm3alpha5.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/z_zoajgdm3alpha5.pk3)

Its not completely done yet, needs to support more gamemodes and perhaps another powerup. But i think i'll fix oajgctf1 first.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 13, 2013, 07:14:56 am
I've fixed 403 error on OACMP test server, and added oajgdm3alpha5 map.
Also I've added custom votes to add/remove bots, and to restart map rotation - please use that vote when leaving server, because changing map/gametype using vote breaks map rotation script for some reason (or maybe I am lousy server admin, it doesn't break it if you select "Next map").
Also I've noticed that when downloading map using in-game UDP downloader the downloading stucks at 32 Mb, that's probably an engine limitation (or maybe my custom-compiled server). Anyway, it works okay through HTTP.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 14, 2013, 04:21:43 am
Thank you Pelya.
I checked, and I had cl_allowdownload 1... so I don't know why it didn't fall back to UDP download (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Autodownload#Fast.2C_slow_or_both - Anyway I never tried some of them... I wrote that part mostly reading ioquake3 documentation!).
Maybe it depends from your custom server binaries? Are them based upon 0.8.8 binaries or upon "new" binaries that support the new "sv_dlrate" cvar?

About jan's map, I will test it tomorrow.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 15, 2013, 03:48:21 am
Jan, I quickly took a look to oajdm3alpha5.

Things i noticed:
- It looks like the map lacks the "message" key for worldspawn (the "long" map name shown during map loading).
- The central jumppad has got that small glitch where the two bevels touch (first screenshot, very think black lines in the middle). Did you place the common/caulk behind them?
- Going very high with flying, you can reach at least a couple of places where you are more external than some of the walls, giving the graphic glitch you can see in second and third screenshots. Not sure how to avoid it. Maybe placing another brush on the outer part of the wall? Or making that wall much more "thick", to be have its outer part aligned with the wall you are over? Not sure...


Title: OACMP1 Deadlines
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 15, 2013, 06:09:18 am
I want to push the deadline a week and some days later. The pack may be released on May 1st, Workers' Day, with a delivery deadline set to April 30th. Do you agree with this?

Also, maps which didn't made the cut will be featured in OACMP2.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 15, 2013, 07:06:09 am
I think that at least a BETA3 of the mappack is required. Maps are getting various fixes, new gametypes added, Akom re-organized his textures... so I think a BETA3 is required (and we need some more days before it). Hopefully it may also act as a Release Candidate, but I can't assure it.
I think some maps are not yet ready for RC stage.
It's too early to say, but probably forcing an official release for 1st May could be an error. We should have -and test!- a RC before the official mappack release.

@Jan, I opened your CTF map in the editor, and I noticed a strange thing (maybe it's obvious for an expert mapper, but for me it sounds quite strange).
I don't understand the meaning of those enormous "botclip" walls (with relatively small "clusterportal" holes into them) in the map, see screenshots. What's their purpose? Could them be the cause of the strange behavior of bots in that map?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 15, 2013, 10:15:32 am
Once again, I agree that the pack needs testing, but at the same time, I (at the very least, and I'm sure I'm not the only one) don't want this to be released in 2340, I (again, I'm sure I'm not the only one) want it to be released, if possible, in 2013.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on April 15, 2013, 10:18:44 am
I think that at least a BETA3 of the mappack is required. Maps are getting various fixes, new gametypes added, Akom re-organized his textures... so I think a BETA3 is required (and we need some more days before it). Hopefully it may also act as a Release Candidate, but I can't assure it.
I think some maps are not yet ready for RC stage.
It's too early to say, but probably forcing an official release for 1st May could be an error. We should have -and test!- a RC before the official mappack release.

@Jan, I opened your CTF map in the editor, and I noticed a strange thing (maybe it's obvious for an expert mapper, but for me it sounds quite strange).
I don't understand the meaning of those enormous "botclip" walls (with relatively small "clusterportal" holes into them) in the map, see screenshots. What's their purpose? Could them be the cause of the strange behavior of bots in that map?

They could, what strange behavior?

Their purpose is to limit the number of area's in a cluster; large clusters make the bot AI harder to process and while it doesn't show up in (average) FPS, it does lead to 'botstutter', which happens when a frame takes a few ms longer to load, because the AI is eating CPU cycles (remember that oa is single threaded).

So those botclips split an otherwise very large cluster, into two, and the bots have a smaller set of area's to worry about.

I don't know the details of the AI algorithm, i have looked at it and concluded that its a lot code :), i do buy into the idea that cutting number of area's in half will cut the down calculation costs big time by a much larger factor.

Clusterportals are small because they do have weird limits, and are a pain to debug (find out why its ignored and 2 clusters are merged)


@NeonKnight
Postponing is good, progress is obviously beeing made so at this time we don't have to worry about renaming it to Community Mappack Foverer.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 15, 2013, 10:26:08 am
Once again, I agree that the pack needs testing, but at the same time, I (at the very least, and I'm sure I'm not the only one) don't want this to be released in 2340, I (again, I'm sure I'm not the only one) want it to be released, if possible, in 2013.

I agree with you. Dont worry, we can do it !! :P :D :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 15, 2013, 11:25:33 am
Take your time, a week or two doesn't really matter (even a month does not), OA is updated roughly once per year, and some servers are still running 0.8.5 release.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: G One on April 15, 2013, 01:59:10 pm
The most important thing is a stable and beautiful final product.
In my opinion release date has no importance (if in 2013).
You can also release sometimes bugfix releases.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 15, 2013, 02:49:02 pm
Update:

oa_akomdm1: Fix in progress.... (damn textures!  :P )
oa_akomdm2: Fixed ! (exchanged rocketlauncher with railgun)
oa_akomdm3: Fixed ! (new skybox GPLv2 compatible)
oa_akomdm4: Fixed ! (new skybox)
oa_akomdm5: Fixed ! (retextured some light and Skybox)
oa_akomctf1: Fixed ! (inserted bot_roam_entity and reduced ammo for BFG to 10)

Maybe tomorrow (Italian time) i can send the fixed versions to Neon_Knight.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 16, 2013, 02:54:19 am
@Jan, I opened your CTF map in the editor, and I noticed a strange thing (maybe it's obvious for an expert mapper, but for me it sounds quite strange).
I don't understand the meaning of those enormous "botclip" walls (with relatively small "clusterportal" holes into them) in the map, see screenshots. What's their purpose? Could them be the cause of the strange behavior of bots in that map?

They could, what strange behavior?
In this post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46721#msg46721), together with other things I noticed in various maps, I said that in OAJGCTF1ALPHA bots did not tend to roam around the map, but to spend most of their time in the place of the screenshot (near the underground passage.... now I see there is one of those big botclip walls near - maybe it's just a coincidence, and some simple item_botroam could fix bot roaming? I don't know.).

Quote
Their purpose is to limit the number of area's in a cluster; large clusters make the bot AI harder to process and while it doesn't show up in (average) FPS, it does lead to 'botstutter', which happens when a frame takes a few ms longer to load, because the AI is eating CPU cycles (remember that oa is single threaded).

So those botclips split an otherwise very large cluster, into two, and the bots have a smaller set of area's to worry about.
I thought that clusterportal was intended to subdivide clusters, while botclip was intended to act as an invisible wall or floor for bots. While "do not enter" areas tell bots they should not enter there (but may be forced go enter anyway to reach a flag or pushed by splash damage), botclip is like a solid wall for them (except the fact that they can see and shoot through it, I can guess).

I mean, if a certain passage is large 10 meters, why should we force bots to pass through the 5 central meters only?

http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/documentation/q3radiant_manual/appndx/appn_c.htm <-- There is a "cluster portal" section here.
Unfortunately, I can't find a section explicitly talking about botclip.

I repeat... I'm very far from being an expert mapper.


----------------
About special brushes... opening oa_akomdm4 in the editor, I see two "do not enter" brushses on the doors that allow to reach the environment suit... is it due to the fact bots fell down too easily? But so, they do never take the item?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 16, 2013, 03:29:35 am
Quote
About special brushes... opening oa_akomdm4 in the editor, I see two "do not enter" brushses on the doors that allow to reach the environment suit... is it due to the fact bots falled down too easily? But so, they do never take the item?
It's better to put these brushes alongside rails, so bots would not try to fall down.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 16, 2013, 04:18:34 am
Quote
About special brushes... opening oa_akomdm4 in the editor, I see two "do not enter" brushses on the doors that allow to reach the environment suit... is it due to the fact bots falled down too easily? But so, they do never take the item?
It's better to put these brushes alongside rails, so bots would not try to fall down.
This sounds a good idea.  :) Akom, I think you should try this!

Another thing: wanting to take a look to how Jan's "animated rings" were done, I noticed they are common/white_glowing_500 (physically, in scripts/oajgdm.shader).... and this made me ask if it is good to place OACMP textures or shaders into "existing" folders (like "common" and "gothic"), or it is better to use our own folders ("akom74", "gig", etc.) ?


PS: In z_oacmp_beta2.pk3 I see some shaders that probably are not used anymore (e.g. GiG's_nightmare.shader). Some cleanup possible, maybe?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 16, 2013, 08:45:34 am
About special brushes... opening oa_akomdm4 in the editor, I see two "do not enter" brushses on the doors that allow to reach the environment suit... is it due to the fact bots fell down too easily? But so, they do never take the item?

They take the powersuit, but not all BOTs.
;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 16, 2013, 09:12:11 am
Quote
About special brushes... opening oa_akomdm4 in the editor, I see two "do not enter" brushses on the doors that allow to reach the environment suit... is it due to the fact bots falled down too easily? But so, they do never take the item?
It's better to put these brushes alongside rails, so bots would not try to fall down.
This sounds a good idea.  :) Akom, I think you should try this!

Another thing: wanting to take a look to how Jan's "animated rings" were done, I noticed they are common/white_glowing_500 (physically, in scripts/oajgdm.shader).... and this made me ask if it is good to place OACMP textures or shaders into "existing" folders (like "common" and "gothic"), or it is better to use our own folders ("akom74", "gig", etc.) ?


PS: In z_oacmp_beta2.pk3 I see some shaders that probably are not used anymore (e.g. GiG's_nightmare.shader). Some cleanup possible, maybe?

I'm doing it, the folder named "Akom74" is no more available, all my textures are in folders named Akom_lights, akom_sky etc.
So i have changed all shaders path and recompiled every map after retexturing them..... :RIP:....
........

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 16, 2013, 10:03:58 am
I'm sorry I haven't been able to release a new version of the map today. I hope for Thursday. I have some issues to fix.

First of them:
I tried to apply "botclip" brushes to the top of the pillars of the house of pillars, hoping that maybe bots may like them more if they feel them as square instead of rounded. But the "botclip" brush appears in-game, instead of being invisible! WHAT?? WHY?? (Screenshot -sorry, it's dark- is from Q3A. In OA, it appears like a "missing texture"). Can you help me?

PS: Akom, did you see my PMs?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 16, 2013, 10:09:02 am
I'm sorry I haven't been able to release a new version of the map today. I hope for Thursday. I have some issues to fix.

First of them:
I tried to apply "botclip" brushes to the top of the pillars of the house of pillars, hoping that maybe bots may like them more if they feel them as square instead of rounded. But the "botclip" brush appears in-game, instead of being invisible! WHAT?? WHY?? (Screenshot -sorry, it's dark- is from Q3A. In OA, it appears like a "missing texture"). Can you help me?

PS: Akom, did you see my PM?

This is a VERY strange thing, what the hell have you do with the pk3 ?? :P :P :D :D
Seriously, check if you have deleted or changed something.

By the way, i've see your PM and answer to it.  ;D

;)

P.S.: Just right now, i have send to Neon_Knight the complete mappack with my maps updated with new versions of map textures and scripts.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 16, 2013, 10:14:06 am
Received! =)
I'll update the Wiki article soon...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on April 17, 2013, 06:09:49 am
I'm sorry I haven't been able to release a new version of the map today. I hope for Thursday. I have some issues to fix.

First of them:
I tried to apply "botclip" brushes to the top of the pillars of the house of pillars, hoping that maybe bots may like them more if they feel them as square instead of rounded. But the "botclip" brush appears in-game, instead of being invisible! WHAT?? WHY?? (Screenshot -sorry, it's dark- is from Q3A. In OA, it appears like a "missing texture"). Can you help me?

PS: Akom, did you see my PMs?

It appears while compiling your botclip definitions are not what you expect them to be, they should be in a shader file which tells the compiler not to create an surface to be drawn.

Are you using the shaders and textures from oa or q3? What radiant are you using?

Do the you use seperate textures/shaders for your Radiant and openarena, or did you configure Radiant to use the textures in your openarea folder?

If you are copying stuff from other maps: they might use q3 definitions.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 17, 2013, 07:51:32 am
I workarounded the problem. I changed botclip with clip (player clip), that works as expected. I made them a little smaller than in the screenshot, to make less "flying character" effect.

But bots still did not jump from a pillar to the other, so at the end I added connection bars (visible) between pillars, and finally bots understand that they can reach that yellow armor without rocket jumping.

Ps: Jan, did you do more tests with bot navigation in your ctf map? I don't remember if there is a more recent version of it than the one that is in oacmp beta2 package.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on April 17, 2013, 01:02:52 pm
Ps: Jan, did you do more tests with bot navigation in your ctf map? I don't remember if there is a more recent version of it than the one that is in oacmp beta2 package.

I haven't yet been able to do anything..:(, so the beta2 is the most recent.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 18, 2013, 05:00:16 am
Hi guys, a question!

I'm trying to use a shader (script based upon Akom's animated stars) to give some animation effect above the bounce pad (Pelya suggested to start from Jan's effect to make jump pads more visible, but I wanted to try starting from Akom's effect first).

If the shader (at the moment, some colored stripes moving on a transparent background) is applied to all sides of the brush, it becomes too easy to see it's placed around a 3D shape instead of being an incorporeal ray of light. So, I wanna try appling the shader only to one face of the brush, and make all other faces completely invisible. What should I place on such faces, to be sure they will give no problem to players and bots? Common/Caulk? Common/Cushion? Common/Invisible? Common/Trigger? Common/Nodraw? Something else? UPDATE: SEE BELOW.
Or is it somehow possible to create a 2D object?

P.S.: Is it normal that the brush is actually NON-SOLID only if I place the shader in shaderlist.txt? If I don't do it, while in game I can't pass through it, although the animation works.

P.P.S.: @Jan, in your ctf map, maybe the "lateral" bounce pads, near to the rocket launchers, push the player to a point there the platform is too thin? Maybe the push could bring you to a meter or two ahead, where the platform is a little larger?

UPDATE: I think I found it. It's Common/Nodraw, right?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 18, 2013, 10:25:39 am
I think we need a topic named "Editing tips and questions".

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: sago007 on April 18, 2013, 10:38:14 am
UPDATE: I think I found it. It's Common/Nodraw, right?
Yes it is. Notice that it makes a difference if you first make the brush all nodraw and then place the shader or if you first create the brush as a shader and then apply nodraw to the other sides (most notable with water).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 18, 2013, 11:08:12 am
UDESTRUCTION V7 is here, but it has got some new textures and now it's too big to be attached to a post.

Hence, this is the link to download it: http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version07.pk3
The file will not be there forever... but at least until version8...  :)

Changelog:
- Hall of pillars reworked to make bots actually use pillars
- Button to open BFG door moved, trying to help bots.
- Second "big door" removed, replaced with a staircase. Placed Portable Teleporter, Kamizake and Invunerability with "team" key (spawn alternately) there.
- In the warehouse: placed Quad Damage, Regeneration, Flight (30 seconds instead of 60), Invisibility (25 seconds instead of 30), with "team" key.
- In the ruined tower's top, you can now find the GRAPPLE. It's a test and I want to know your opinions about it. Should I keep it? Should I remove it? Should I make it appear less frequently? I fear it may give unfair adavantage against bots... Test it and tell me what do you think.
- Added support for Harvester and Overload modes. Now you can play the map in ALL OA gametypes (well, I left "tournament" out from the .arena). Please test and tell me.
- Some custom textures (e.g. custom woody boxes)
- Added gametype-dependent arrows and colored decorations, to help people finding objectives in the gametypes that have them. Are they ok?
- Added colored light stripes over jump-pads, to help peple find them. I started from Akom's stars effect... and it took me much more time than what I thought (maybe I should have started from Jan's effect... but...). What do you think? Unfortunately, this caused the map to compile in 18 minutes instead of 5... seeing inside the higher tower, I can see that those brushes can leave their shadow on the walls... I don't understand why, considering they have "nolightmap" parameter. Can someone tell me why? They are common/nodraw with a face with gig/gig_stripes1.
This is scripts/gig_stripes1.shader
Quote
textures/gig/gig_stripes1
{
        surfaceparm trans   
        surfaceparm nomarks   
        surfaceparm nonsolid
      surfaceparm nolightmap
        cull none
              
   {
      map textures/gig/gig_stripes1.tga
                tcMod Scroll .5 .6
                blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
        }
            
}
Is there something wrong?

UPDATE: I think I found it. It's Common/Nodraw, right?
Yes it is. Notice that it makes a difference if you first make the brush all nodraw and then place the shader or if you first create the brush as a shader and then apply nodraw to the other sides (most notable with water).
Could you please better explain? Which difference should I notice?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 19, 2013, 05:33:45 am
Hey, yersterday I wasn't able to upload the map because it was too big for the forum.
But now it's on a separate hosting, so you can download UDESTRUCTION V7 from here: http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version07.pk3

Changelog and feedback required in the post just above this one.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 19, 2013, 06:16:53 am
Uploaded Akom's pack, Gig's v07 and Jan's dm3a5 to the server for convenience. And this time they were transferred in binary (I hope) so they should be downloadable as files. EDIT: No luck. -.-

Links and updated info @ the Wiki page.
(I really hated to place that TBA in the release date -.-)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 19, 2013, 11:43:35 am
I've updated udestruction and Akom pack on the test server.

oajgctf1: II've got comments that the color gamma is crazy on the red base - red floor vs green grass vs marble walls. I'm not an expert in such things :) Also, the bug when I'm spawning on the enemy map at the start of the game is still present.

udestruction: Bots now are able to find the secret button to open the door to BFG, but I could not find it :(
The staircase instead of the second secret room looks and plays better now.
Sparks above jumppads look cool, but I've constantly tried to shoot them at the first time.
Hall of pillars is also better now, because it was hard to use previously, and now I can walk there without problems.
Playing CTF - the arrows help somewhat, but it's still hard to navigate to the red flag, because it's inside an unremarkable building, and I'm constantly confused which building I should run to. Blue flag is seen from almost everywhere, but it's much easier to defend it on the other hand. Maybe move the red flag to the roof somewhere, so you can see it from the ground?
I've tried grapple, and it does not seem cheaty to me - bots kill me very well while I am in air.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 20, 2013, 04:08:05 am
oajgctf1: Also, the bug when I'm spawning on the enemy map at the start of the game is still present.
Well, some posts ago Jan said he had no time to work on that map yet. The only map he updated recently is oajdDM3alpha5 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46912#msg46912) (I only gave him a little feedback after a quick look to it -see posts near that one-... more testing is required).

Quote
udestruction: Bots now are able to find the secret button to open the door to BFG, but I could not find it :(
Try again, it's not so far.  :) Maybe I could try placing some textures to help people navigating there. I don't know exactly how.
Quote
Sparks above jumppads look cool, but I've constantly tried to shoot them at the first time.
Why did you? They do not look like Grunt or Merman at all!  ;D
Quote
Playing CTF - the arrows help somewhat, but it's still hard to navigate to the red flag, because it's inside an unremarkable building, and I'm constantly confused which building I should run to. Blue flag is seen from almost everywhere, but it's much easier to defend it on the other hand. Maybe move the red flag to the roof somewhere, so you can see it from the ground?
I think I will place some more red decorations around the tower, in CTF mode.
Quote
I've tried grapple, and it does not seem cheaty to me - bots kill me very well while I am in air.
Should I keep the default spawning time, then? Or make it something like 20, 30 or 40 seconds?
By the way, thank you for your feedback.  :)

PS: if someone has got some idea about why the light of the jumppads is blocked by my "incorporeal" polygons (noticeable only where walls are near to jump-pad), that would be very appreciated.  :) That's not a major problem, however it's not so nice to see and makes the map compiling much longer.

PPS: Well guys, it looks like we have to test all maps from Akom (he updated them all):
oa_akompack.pk3 (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/oa_akompack.pk3) (right click, save as) - Note: It is better to rename it to z_oa_akompack.pk3, to be sure it is loaded AFTER oacmp beta2.
My friend, any request about what we have to test in particular? Did you add some new gametype, maybe?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 20, 2013, 04:59:55 am
My friend, any request about what we have to test in particular? Did you add some new gametype, maybe?

No, maybe i have forgot some arena file Oops..... ::) :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on April 20, 2013, 05:53:58 am
I've noticed a new dark sky in Akom maps, it looks nice.
Akom, why don't you create your own thread for akomctf3? Neon_knight seems too busy for creating OACMP #2 thread.
You can try then to smuggle it into OACMP1, since other maps are not yet ready anyway.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 20, 2013, 07:10:15 am
OACMP2 will start once OACMP1 has ended.
Me having no own PC ATM is also a pain in the ass. -.-


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 20, 2013, 02:23:22 pm
I've noticed a new dark sky in Akom maps, it looks nice.
Akom, why don't you create your own thread for akomctf3? Neon_knight seems too busy for creating OACMP #2 thread.
You can try then to smuggle it into OACMP1, since other maps are not yet ready anyway.

The thread you mean will be created by Neon_knight after OACMP1 release  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 22, 2013, 01:11:39 am
Hi guys! It seems I solved my problem! I've used "Make detail" on all the brushes of those "sparks", then the map compiled in 4 minutes and the shadows on the walls seem gone!  :)
(Question: is there a way to know if a certain brush is marked as "detail" or "structural"?)

UPDATE: Given a quick try to Akom's maps. They seem to look well enough...  :)
First thing, one should rename oa_akompack.pk3 to z_oa_akompack.pk3, to be sure it is loaded AFTER oacmp beta2. In my first tries, I fear I was using the old versions of the maps!

Second thing: Grunt, Major and Sarge are used over and over again...  :P (Is this due to the "arena file you forgot" as you said in a post above?)

OA_AKOMDM1:
Is the texture in the screenshot (in the crosshair) intentional? It differs from the rest of that floor.

OA_AKOMDM2:
I noticed this thing ONLY ONCE, and I was playing with the previous version of the map, so I don't know if it is really an issue or not: once I've seen a bot go there (where I shoot the rocket in the screenshot), and then fall down. Maybe a "bot do not enter" could be placed there? I don't know if that is required or if that was just a random thing that does not happen often.

OA_AKOMDM4:
You placed more stars now, right? At first, I thought that the railgun up there was too "campy", then someone railed me from behind: the spawning point just near to the railgun seems a quite good camp preventer. :)
However, I was thinking again about the environment suit part. I have not checked in the editor if you did some change to that part... anyway if there are still those "bot do not enter" on the doors that bring to the environment, if one of them goes there by jumping down from the upper floor, how can it escape without committing suicide? I'm not sure, but I fear I've seen one doing that. Maybe Pelya's idea was good...
(PS: I never really understood how bots understand what's the "good" part and the "bad" part of a "do not enter" brush... how do such brushes form an area?)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 22, 2013, 10:28:00 am
Well, the game give you that three bots by default if nothing appear in the .arena file, and if you click in the other bot's spots the list continue even when you write only three bots in the .arena file, dont know why.

Quote
OA_AKOMDM1:
Is the texture in the screenshot (in the crosshair) intentional? It differs from the rest of that floor.
You are right, the texture is different and it's intentional.

Quote
OA_AKOMDM2:
I noticed this thing ONLY ONCE, and I was playing with the previous version of the map, so I don't know if it is really an issue or not: once I've seen a bot go there (where I shoot the rocket in the screenshot), and then fall down. Maybe a "bot do not enter" could be placed there? I don't know if that is required or if that was just a random thing that does not happen often.

It's not really a bug, bot sometimes bots fall down, but not always, and not all bots.
However, in online game, this isn't a big problem with humans.

Quote
OA_AKOMDM4:
You placed more stars now, right? At first, I thought that the railgun up there was too "campy", then someone railed me from behind: the spawning point just near to the railgun seems a quite good camp preventer. Smiley
However, I was thinking again about the environment suit part. I have not checked in the editor if you did some change to that part... anyway if there are still those "bot do not enter" on the doors that bring to the environment, if one of them goes there by jumping down from the upper floor, how can it escape without committing suicide? I'm not sure, but I fear I've seen one doing that. Maybe Pelya's idea was good...
(PS: I never really understood how bots understand what's the "good" part and the "bad" part of a "do not enter" brush... how do such brushes form an area?)

Depends from bot to another, sometimes bots fall down and sometimes bots fall on the tubes and follow the way to the RA or the LG.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 23, 2013, 10:13:13 am
Hi guys, can I ask you another thing about nodraw?

In Q3Radiant for Q3A there are two: "nodraw" (purple) and "nodraw - non solid" (yellow). What's the difference between them?
To make a try, i placed both two in two brushes in a map.
They do not show up if I use r_showtris. They do not block me or bullets. OK.

The "nodraw-nonsolid" projects its SHADOW on the ground (did you remember the problem I had few posts above?), while "nodraw" not.
While I'm INSIDE the "nodraw-nonsolid", ALL ITEMS of the arena are NOT drawn; this does not happen with the "nodraw" instead.

If I use "make detail" on the "nodraw-nonsolid" brush, it start behaving like the "nodraw" one (no shadow, no removing items from the screen). What does that mean?

I can guess that, for some reason, if I used the "nodraw" instead of the "nodraw-nonsolid", I would have not had the need to use "make detail" trick on the sparks over the jump-pads, to have them do not project a shadow.
But I don't understand what's the purpose of that nodraw-nonsolid shader...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on April 24, 2013, 02:07:40 am
If someone is interested, I digged a little more about the difference between "common/nodraw" and "common/nodrawnonsolid" shaders in Q3Radiant.

From Q3Radiant's common.shader:
Quote
textures/common/nodraw
{
   surfaceparm nodraw
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nomarks
}

textures/common/nodrawnonsolid
{
   surfaceparm   nonsolid
   surfaceparm   nodraw
}
The "simple" nodraw is more incorporeal than the other one! The names are misleading!
I don't know what's the indended use for the second one. However, making its brush "detail" seems make it behave like the "simple" nodraw.

Then, I've made another try. I created four brushes, big enough to enter them. Two with "nodraw", and two with "nodrawnonsolid"; one for each kind is "structural", and the other one is "detail". I placed four thin platforms (made of normal brushes) just under them, to recognize where they are.
Take a look to the screenshots:
- Screen01: in the editor. Purple is "nodraw", yellow is "nodrawnonsolid". Those nearer to the scaffolding are the "detail" ones.
- Screen02: in Q3A. Three of them look the same (they seem to do not affect the map at all), but the fourth (nodrawnonsolid structural) has got its shadow on the ground (do you see it's a little darker there? Maybe it's caused by the metal base, but I think it belongs to the nodrawnonsolid), and makes a strange effect on the platform just below it (prevents the upper surface of that platform from being drawn, too).
- Screen03: I'm inside the "nodrawnonsolid structural". As you can notice, all items in the map are NOT shown.
- Screen04: I'm inside the "nodrawnonsolid detail". As you can see, now items are shown. Same happens with both "nodraw" brushes.

So, the "make detail" trick I used seems to work, but anyway I'm not so happy with relying on a such trick only, thinking that other people could open the .map and erroneously think that "nodrawnonsolid" is the best shader for that work. So I think that I will change all those "nodrawnonsolid" around my sparks to "nodraw". This will require a lot of time.  :-\ Wait! It exists the "replace texture" tool... I have to try if that does not make "damages" on textures placed on individual faces of brushes. UPDATE: Done, everything seems ok.  :)

PS: Sago, when talking about nodraw and water, were you referring to that stuff? http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=42062

PPS: I'm going to go out for some holiday. I will not be able to work on my map (and probably, also to do tests with your maps) for 7-10 days. Probably I will have only little time also to check the forum (however I will do when I will have the opportunity, although through the cell phone). See you soon, guys!  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on April 29, 2013, 06:10:08 am
Good luck, Gig!

I'll download the maps and give my feedback right now. I feel I've contributed very little to this.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on April 30, 2013, 09:47:56 am
oa_akompack.PK3 (fixed version) sended to neon_knight.

Waiting for the volume 2  ;D ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 02, 2013, 02:27:30 am
Okay guys!
I think starting from tomorrow I should be able to put some time on the map again. In the meanwhile, if you have some feedback, feel free to tell!  :)

PS: Akom, did you do some other changes? What?

PPS: Attention when making packs over packs... I'm not completely sure, but I really fear that "zz_name.pk3" is NOT loaded after "z_name.pk3", because "_" comes after "z" (maybe "z__name.pk3" may work -be loaded after z_name.pk3- instead, but I haven't tried). I don't know if this is OS-dependent.
This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.

PPPS: Did someone succed in playing OACMP online on the server with some humans? Impressions?

PPPPS: While playing on the internet server, I still see the oa_akomdm4 version where the shots explode on front and back skies (maybe related to the PPS above)...

PPPPPS: Any news from Jan and Moixie?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 03, 2013, 06:16:40 am
Akom, after having played some more on oa_akomdm3, I want to ask you if you considered to enlarge a little the bridges next to the teleporters, to make the gap between the bridge and the floor over the jumppad shorter. Screenshot shows one of the two passages involved (the one I used for testing).

Reaching the bridge (or vice versa) by (strafe)jumping is quite easy with 125 fps physics... but if using 90 fps or accurate physics (see http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics), it's more difficult (still possible, though).
In general, it would be better if OA maps would not require 125 fps physics to be fully playable.
Of course, it's your choice to decide if jumping that gap should be a relatively normal path for the average player or a shortcut for experienced players...

Personally, I fear that trying to do that "inviting" jump and failing, makes user experience worse.

I don't know if when they designed that huge gap in Q3DM6 (longer than the one in your map), at id software they already knew the "different jumps at different framerates" problem (maybe at that time they did not even thought it may have been possible to jump from the railgun to the bridge).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 03, 2013, 09:02:01 am
PS: Akom, did you do some other changes? What?

I have simply inserted the .arena file that was missing.

Akom, after having played some more on oa_akomdm3, I want to ask you if you considered to enlarge a little the bridges next to the teleporters, to make the gap between the bridge and the floor over the jumppad shorter....

No, you dont need to jump from the bridge, you can use the jumppad. Viceversa you can strafe even at 90 fps to jump to the bridge.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 03, 2013, 09:32:36 am
No, you dont need to jump from the bridge, you can use the jumppad.
But this would make you lose time...
Quote
Viceversa you can strafe even at 90 fps to jump to the bridge.

Yes, you can do it also at 90fps, but it's a little harder (I actually had some problems doing it while I was playing online on the server... I don't know what kind of physics Pelya's server was using... later I did some tests locally, trying different settings, and wrote my post)... anyway I don't see reasons to do not make the bridge a little larger.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 03, 2013, 09:37:49 am
The second jumppad is there because you cannot jump to the bridge, and yes, you will lose some time. I suggest making it impossible to jump, so it will be less confusing.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 05, 2013, 04:31:04 am
The maps are released in this beta as them are.
Now i'm working to other maps.

Dont worry, once the pack is released the community can edit all the maps.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 05, 2013, 04:56:00 am
Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is. There are still some major issues in two Jan's maps, that should be fixed before final release.
@jangroothuijse you seem to be busy lately, so Is it okay if I'll modify your maps a bit?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: sago007 on May 05, 2013, 05:03:39 am
This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.
Why not simply name them name01.pk3, name02.pk3 and so forth?

I also use the same naming convention for the bsp files (so that the pk3 file have the same name as the bsp file). That way multiple betas can be installed simultaneously and compared. This does not work for shaders and textures but I still believe it to be the best approach.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 05, 2013, 05:32:59 am
Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is....

You're right, at the moment i'm working at the new maps for the second volume, but i have little time for that.
You (all) can see some screenshots here:
Quote
http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t185-oa-community-mappack

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 05, 2013, 05:41:53 am
This is the reason I named versions of my map z_name01.pk3, z_name02.pk3, z_name03.pk3, using a two digit number to support up to 99 revisions.
Why not simply name them name01.pk3, name02.pk3 and so forth?
IIRC, because OACMP Beta 2 filename is z_oacmp_beta2.pk3. Hence, any version of my map (udestruction.bsp) in any later udestructionXX.pk3 would have been ignored, with the version from the oacmpB2 package used instead.

I used a single .bsp name in all pk3s to avoid the need of updating .arena file each time, and to be sure people would really launch the "current" version after they install it (re-testing an older version still possible by renaming the latest ".pk3" to ".pk3tmp" or similar).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on May 05, 2013, 08:48:05 am
Once the pack is released everyone will use it as-is, so even if we'll fix some maps, the only real solution to make everyone use new versions would be to release them inside OACMP2.
Anyway, that's a minor issue, we can leave the map as it is. There are still some major issues in two Jan's maps, that should be fixed before final release.
@jangroothuijse you seem to be busy lately, so Is it okay if I'll modify your maps a bit?

That would be perfect, i just really haven't gotten around to it...i do not want to slow the development down...

This is the latest progress on the ctf map:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgctf1alpha2.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgctf1alpha2.pk3)
Fixed: spawn issues, base colors


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 05, 2013, 10:04:49 am
Thanks! That fixes one map. The only issue left is the teleport in oajgdm2 looking like plain wall.
I've uploaded the new map on the test server.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 05, 2013, 11:37:22 am
Uploaded into the D/L server akom's pack and oajgctf1alpha2. Updated the links on the wiki, accordingly.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 05, 2013, 12:22:01 pm
Pelya, did you rename Akom's pack on the server? Otherwise, old versions are used instead of latest ones.
I would suggest the same also to NeonKnight...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 05, 2013, 01:05:15 pm
Yes I've renamed it, new versions are used, because it shows sky with stars on akomdm2.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 05, 2013, 01:06:54 pm
I did that. New name of Akom's pack has the date in the D/L server.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 06, 2013, 03:22:58 am
Quickly tested OAJGCTF1ALPHA2.

Nice, but some problems (some mentioned early (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46721#msg46721), some not) are still present.

1) Look at the first two screenshots: that looks strange. Is it intentional?

2) Look at the third screenshot: you can see a glitch where two bevels touch. Did you remember to place "caulk" texture on a brush behind the bevels?

3) Except passing through the center of the map, no way to go from a base to the lateral high passages, except rocket jumping. It seems bots do not do it to get there. As you can see in the last screenshot, I ordered a bot to follow me, and he had no idea how to actually reach me, and got stuck where you see it. I would suggest a way to get up there affordable also for bots.

4) No location names are present.

5) .arena file lists for CTF only. Of course, at least Elimination CTF should also be available!

6) What about adding support for some other gametype?

7) Trying to launch the map in gametype 0 makes the game crash (could not find spawn point): this should never happen! Also happens if I try to join a team in Double Domination mode. Please, always place deathmatch spawn points also in CTF maps.

8) No "message" key for worldspawn (no "long" map name shown during map loading).

9) I noticed at least one spawn point (in a lateral tunnel) that made me appear just facing a wall. It's not a real problem, however changing its facing angle could be nice.

PS: Do you remember, OAJDM3ALPHA5 has still got some glitch (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919)...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Hitchhiker on May 06, 2013, 11:44:15 am
hi,

firstly, thank you all for making these maps!

secondly, in another thread we're trying to get glsl used more in OA. Has any of you any will to try modifying your q3 shaders to include glsl? If so, which effects/glsl programs would you need? if so and if you want to describe the desired effect, please let me know (either start a new glsl related thread or pm me) and I'll try to help.

 


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on May 06, 2013, 02:54:56 pm
Quickly tested OAJGCTF1ALPHA2.

Nice, but some problems (some mentioned early (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46721#msg46721), some not) are still present.

1) Look at the first two screenshots: that looks strange. Is it intentional?

2) Look at the third screenshot: you can see a glitch where two bevels touch. Did you remember to place "caulk" texture on a brush behind the bevels?

3) Except passing through the center of the map, no way to go from a base to the lateral high passages, except rocket jumping. It seems bots do not do it to get there. As you can see in the last screenshot, I ordered a bot to follow me, and he had no idea how to actually reach me, and got stuck where you see it. I would suggest a way to get up there affordable also for bots.

4) No location names are present.

5) .arena file lists for CTF only. Of course, at least Elimination CTF should also be available!

6) What about adding support for some other gametype?

7) Trying to launch the map in gametype 0 makes the game crash (could not find spawn point): this should never happen! Also happens if I try to join a team in Double Domination mode. Please, always place deathmatch spawn points also in CTF maps.

8) No "message" key for worldspawn (no "long" map name shown during map loading).

9) I noticed at least one spawn point (in a lateral tunnel) that made me appear just facing a wall. It's not a real problem, however changing its facing angle could be nice.

PS: Do you remember, OAJDM3ALPHA5 has still got some glitch (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919)...


1) Nope that's a glitch, good eye.

Thanks for the feedback, NeonKnight added some support for more gametypes last time around but surprisingly i could not find the .map for his work...

The last picture, asside from a lack of AA and AF, nothing really jumps out at me? Coloring seems a bit bright, but your config is not default is it?

I haven't used the Claulk anywhere yet, is it suppose to 'seperate' the bevels from the walls they are touching? should it then overlap the wall of the bevel?

Spawnpoints are new, i just figured out yesterday what redplayer and redspawn do, so they we tossed in in a hurry.

3) Fair enough, i'm thinking either teleporter at the back of the base or jumppad directly in front of the lateral passage.

hi,

firstly, thank you all for making these maps!

secondly, in another thread we're trying to get glsl used more in OA. Has any of you any will to try modifying your q3 shaders to include glsl? If so, which effects/glsl programs would you need? if so and if you want to describe the desired effect, please let me know (either start a new glsl related thread or pm me) and I'll try to help.

8) Are those seperate issues, or do i fix them both by adding message in worldspawn?
 

I did not know this was possible....I definitely DEFINITELY want to give this a try...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 07, 2013, 03:09:48 am
@jan
About "caulk", it is used on (single faces of?) standard brushes placed behind curved polygons (usually, bevels), to prevent the "flickering" effect that may sometimes occur in the place where bevels touch.

You can take a look to Akom's tutorial page about curved polygons, to take a look how he used "caulk" in that example. Akom wrote that in Italian, so here it is a link to read it in English by Google Translate. Obviously, automatic translators do errors.
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fakom74.forumattivo.com%2Ft91-02-poligoni-curvi&act=url
[OT] @Akom: I have no idea why I cannot click on your screenshots to enlarge them anymore. Something changed in your forum? Any idea? [/OT]

When I applied "Jan's style" curved walls as borders for udestruction map, in a relatively small number of places where two bevels touched, I saw that edge "flickering" while I was moving (this is also what I see in your map, in the place of the THIRD screenshot I attached above. But it's hard to notice if you are not moving... however, in the screenshot, is that little black line next to the top of the bevels edge). To fix that, I applied "caulk" on the (internal only face maybe? I don't remember now) brushes that form the lateral "box" that contains the map (and that the player cannot see because they are hidden behind the bevels). You can open udestruction in the editor and take a look: hide the "big walls" bevels, and look at what's behind.

Howerver, I suppose more experienced mappers (unlike Akom or Neon_Knight, I'm noob at mapping) should be able to give better explainations about caulk.

The LAST (fourth) screenshot, instead, shows the fact that I ordered that bot to "follow me", but it was not able to reach me (it did not follow my rocket jump, and it was not so smart to understrand that there is a jump-pad in the middle of the map that could have bring it to the tunnel that brings to the place where I was)... so he got stuck in that part of the map where you see it.

About worldspawn "message" key... indeed it is usually used to show "long" map name during map loading.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 07, 2013, 05:23:08 am
@Hitchhiker

Veeery interesting. I was already thinking to ask someone help for having a "flowing" water shader... you could be the solution.  :)

First, did you try my map UDESTRUCTION version 7? So you will understand what I'm talking about.
http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version07.pk3

I'm using Q3Radiant (under Q3A) to map (I've had some problems with NetRadiant, so I used it to add TA/OA specific items only).
As you can see, I placed water in two places: on an aqueduct and in a cistern.

liquids/clear_ripple2 for the aqueduct
liquids/clear_ripple3 for the cistern

I like them enough... but I'd like to see the water in the aqueduct to (relatively rapidly) flow in a specific direction (I would have asked to someone for a such shader also without GLSL)... could you do that?
I suppose one might use GLSL to create some kind of water effect better than classic Q3 water.
Hence, I would need two shaders: one with water flowing in a direction, and one for the "almost-static" water in the cistern, but following the "graphic style" GLSL will give to the other one.


For the sake of completion, from Q3Radiant's baseq3/scripts/liquids.shader (NOT GPL, I fear. I suppose we CANNOT start from these, for copyright reasons..)
Quote
textures/liquids/clear_ripple2

//   *********************************************************
//   *      Small clear ripple water. Created September 9   *
//   *********************************************************
   
   {
      qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3b.tga
      qer_trans .5
      q3map_globaltexture
      surfaceparm trans
      surfaceparm nonsolid
      surfaceparm water

      cull disable
      deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5   

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_5b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 1.5 0 1.5 1 1 2
         tcmod scroll -.05 .001
      }
   
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_6b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 0 1.5 1 1.5 2 1
         tcmod scroll .025 -.001
      }

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_3b.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .25 .5
         tcmod scroll .001 .025
      }

      {
         map $lightmap
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
         rgbgen identity      
      }
   

   }

Quote
textures/liquids/clear_ripple3

//   *********************************************************
//   *      Medium clear ripple water. Created September 9   *
//   *********************************************************
      
   {
      qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3c.tga
      qer_trans .5
      q3map_globaltexture
      surfaceparm trans
      surfaceparm nonsolid
      surfaceparm water
   
      cull disable
      deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5   
      
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_5c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 1.5 0 1.5 1 1 2
         tcmod scroll -.05 .001
      }
   
      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_6c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .5 .5
         tcmod transform 0 1.5 1 1.5 2 1
         tcmod scroll .025 -.001
      }

      {
         map textures/liquids/pool3d_3c.tga
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
         rgbgen identity
         tcmod scale .25 .5
         tcmod scroll .001 .025
      }
   
      {
         map $lightmap
         blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
         rgbgen identity      
      }
   

   }

---------------------------

From OpenArena baseoa/pak6-patch088.pk3 --> scripts/liquid_water.shader
Although I compile from Q3Radiant, while playing the map in OA I suppose these are used instead.
OA stuff is GPLv2. I suppose we SHOULD start from these. I have to figure out how will I work with them in Q3Radiant, due to the fact they refer to .jpg files instead of .tga files like the original ones; I imagine creating a temporary pk3 file with the required .jpg taken from OA pk3s should work.
Quote
textures/liquids/clear_ripple2
{
   qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.jpg
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm water
   cull disable
   deformVertexes wave 64 sin .25 .25 0 .5   
      
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll -.025 .001
   }

   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .03 -.001
   }
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5e.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .001 .025
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_zero
      rgbgen identity      
   }
   

}


Quote
textures/liquids/clear_ripple3
{
   qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.jpg
   surfaceparm trans
   surfaceparm nonsolid
   surfaceparm water
   cull disable
   deformVertexes wave 64 sin .25 .25 0 .5   
      
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll -.05 .001
   }

   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .025 -.001
   }
   {
      map textures/liquids/pool3d_5e.jpg
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_one
      rgbgen identity
      tcmod scroll .001 .025
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendFunc gl_dst_color gl_zero
      rgbgen identity      
   }
   

}

More, in my map I placed a custom shader (starting from one made by Akom for his hyperspace stars in oa_akomdm4 map) to give a sort of "sparks" effect above the jumppads. Over each jump-pad there are some polygons that have one face with gig/gig_stripes1 shader, and the other five with "nodraw". In the z_udestruction-version07.pk3 I erroneously used "nodrawnonsolid" instead of "nodraw" (I did more tests here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47000#msg47000)) for such faces, so it ended up having those "incorporeal" polygons project shadows on the walls (I did not want that), as you can see inside the towers. I have already fixed this by replacing "nodrawnonsolid" with "nodraw", but I have not published the fixed version yet.

For the non-GLSL version, I already like them exactly as they are now... but if you wanna try applying some "cool" GLSL effect, I would be curious to see that.
From z_udestruction-version07.pk3 --> scripts/gig_stripes1.shader
Quote
textures/gig/gig_stripes1
{
        surfaceparm trans   
        surfaceparm nomarks   
        surfaceparm nonsolid
        surfaceparm nolightmap
        cull none
               
   {
      map textures/gig/gig_stripes1.tga
                tcMod Scroll .5 .6
                blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
        }
           
}
Well, the .shader file inside z_udestruction-version07.pk3 may show a little "indentation" problem (due to having used TAB instead of spaces in a line), here I posted the "fixed" version.

If you still have will to spend your time with my map, there are a few textures added by me that maybe could take advantage of some "shiny" effects (marble and tiles floors). I think no GLSL is required for that, but I suck with shaders and I don't know how to do it (I haven't looked at existing OA shining floors shaders yet). I don't even know if they would fit with the "dusty" look of the map.... maybe it's better to let them as they are now?

About other people's maps... maybe Akom's teleporters in oa_akomdm1 and oa_akomdm4 may take advantage of "cool" GLSL effects... and there is still Jan's oajgdm2 map where teleporters seem plain walls (maybe als his oajdgdm1 map has got a couple of such teleporters, I don't remember now). However, talk directly with them if they are interested.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Hitchhiker on May 07, 2013, 11:40:00 am
Hi all,
just to keep this thread clean.. post wishlist of glsl programs in the 'glsl' tread? for the moment I'll add water (flowing and static).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 07, 2013, 12:54:55 pm
@Gig: for the flowing water shader use the texture and the shader that you find here:
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4759.0;attach=4348

See also this thread: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4759.msg47014#msg47014

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 08, 2013, 08:11:30 am
@Akom: Thank you very much, my friend.

I just tested the tn_river map you linked. It's a nice simple tech test. Of course, it is clear that in some places there are some "odd" changes in water direction, but we cannot ask too much to id tech 3, I suppose.

For my map, I suppose that shader would fit well: I already "hid" under a floor the place where the water in the aqueduct would change direction!
Before applying that shader to my map, I suppose I will wait a few days to see if Hitchhiker will be able to add nice GLSL effects to it.

PS: Why did you post that file with .zip estension instead of .pk3? People have to rename it to try the map....
By the way: creating that shader, did you start from a GPLv2 shader and GPLv2 .tga images, right? Are those TGA files from OpenArena, and placed into that .zip just to be easily available for who (like me) is using Q3Radiant for mapping? Sorry for annoying you, but this is important to know before re-using such stuff, and considering you did it just with a "tech test" in mind, you may have used not-free Q3 stuff... so I ask.

@Hitchhiker: what do you think about Akom's moving water?

@All:
For UDESTRUCTION map, lately we have been talking about "graphic" aspects. Now I want to ask you a thing about GAMEPLAY (I don't remember if I asked you this before)... I need your opinions.
At the moment (Version 7), the three central jump-pads bring you to the megahealth, which is placed just above the third jump-pad. Human players can also use the push of the third jump-pad to optionally reach the roof of the temple OR the roof of the warehouse, if they decisively use their direction keys... unfortunately, bots are not so smart, and after a few vertical jumps towards the megahealth (available or not), they will simply return to the ground.
Do you follow me? I said various times that this map is mainly thought for Elimination and LMS modes... so I asked myself "Considering that in such modes the megahealth does not spawn at all, what's the meaning of a jumppad where bots go to do nothing but a couple of vertical jumps and then return to the ground?".
Hence, I wanted to know your opinions:
- Should I modify the third jump (changing target and megahealth positions) to "automatically" reach one of the nearby buildings after getting the megahealth? In this case, which building? This would probably mean to lose the ability for humans to choose the destination building (who knows, maybe pointing to somewhere between temple and house could allow to choose on which one landing?)...
- Should I let it as it is now? Maybe the wider view of the whole arena you can get while you are jumping vertically on the third jump-pad could be a good thing that may justify that jump-pad existence by itself?

I'd like to know your opinions about it.. Pelya, Akom, Neon_Knight, Jan, etc. etc.
Thank you in advance!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 08, 2013, 08:17:02 am
I could never reach neither temple roof nor warehouse using jumppad, my gaming skills suck  ;D


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 08, 2013, 08:20:25 am
I could never reach neither temple roof nor warehouse using jumppad, my gaming skills suck  ;D
Just look at one of the two buildings and keep pushing forward, since when you just begin the third jump.  ::)
You have to control the jump since the beginning...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 08, 2013, 10:41:53 am
@Akom: Thank you very much, my friend.

I just tested the tn_river map you linked. It's a nice simple tech test. Of course, it is clear that in some places there are some "odd" changes in water direction, but we cannot ask too much to id tech 3, I suppose.

For my map, I suppose that shader would fit well: I already "hid" under a floor the place where the water in the aqueduct would change direction!
Before applying that shader to my map, I suppose I will wait a few days to see if Hitchhiker will be able to add nice GLSL effects to it.

PS: Why did you post that file with .zip estension instead of .pk3? People have to rename it to try the map....
By the way: creating that shader, did you start from a GPLv2 shader and GPLv2 .tga images, right? Are those TGA files from OpenArena, and placed into that .zip just to be easily available for who (like me) is using Q3Radiant for mapping? Sorry for annoying you, but this is important to know before re-using such stuff, and considering you did it just with a "tech test" in mind, you may have used not-free Q3 stuff... so I ask.

Of course it is all free !! The water.tga (and also the water2.tga) are from OA original pk3 (or a patch ? Dont remember).
The shader file it is also free, it's easy to do !!
Create a normal txt file and see this guide: http://toolz.nexuizninjaz.com/shader/
You also have that guide in your quake 3/docs folder if you have TA istalled.
You need a lot of tries, but i think you can do a good shader.
I have take some inspiration from original shaders of OA and try to emulate some things, after all work fine..... a mess trust me....XD.... :P

For your Undestruction map, the gameplay is strange, too much open i think... and the buildings are too small. By the way, it's a good massacre map for online play.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 10, 2013, 01:23:35 am
Hi guys, replies from other people?

PS: About flowing water, I just realized OA already had at least one... it's used in oa_dm5 (the cistern) map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Hitchhiker on May 11, 2013, 06:01:16 am
Hi,
I looked at Akom's waterfall map. Looks nice!
Without engine-side support for capturing refraction image the water cannot be improved with GLSL. I've tried adding stream glsl program to it but it does work well (in the sense that deeper parts of the riverbed are refracted as much as the shallow ones so it does not look too good). The only improvement glsl could provide for the shader is vertex animation (which is kind of slow on the cpu but can run fast on the gpu).
hitch



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 13, 2013, 01:48:07 am
Excuse me Hitch, I have not understood exactly which kind of improvement were you trying to apply to the water. When I asked you to do some kind of better water, I had in mind something like "fractal-style" waves on its surface.... something that could remind the nice water surface effects one can find in the first Unreal Tournament game (e.g. at 1:10 or 1:50 of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvyAn74I_cg)).
I liked both Q3 and UT... Although I played Q3 much more, I always recognized water effects in UT were way better than those in Q3. Do you think there is a way to do something vaguely similar?

I also tought about that GLSL tech test you showed us, where you did some kind of water. It was more than a year ago, I don't remember if that was a screenshot or a video.

From your post above, were you trying to make some refraction effect inside the water? (E.g. distorted light rays?) I was asking something for its surface...

However, other ideas to improve Q3 water (not necessarily with GLSL!) could be:
- Blue-ish effect while inside it (maybe this could simply be obtained by the mapper by placing some "colored" light sources in the water?)
- Having a water not perfectly crystal clear, but making it "hide" the view in distance. In other words, mixing the existing underwater and the "fog" effects. Separately, they exist in standard Q3 shaders... I wonder if there is a way to have both of them at the same time.
- Maybe it's too difficult to have a reflection on the surface "distorted" like this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3969.msg47047#msg47047)... but a "mirror" effect exists in Q3 (at the very beginning of Q3DM0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7NRc2fo1sU))... who knows if there is a way to place a "mirror" surface on/just under the water surface, and possibly give a little of transparency to it? In other words, somehow mixing the "water surface" and "mirror" existing effects. If not refraction, at least reflection?

If there is need for help with "standard" Q3 shaders, could we try to PM Udi (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1708) maybe?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 13, 2013, 04:59:17 am
Gig, have you looked at the islewater shader that comes with the standard OA paks?  It's has a fog parameter so distant objects fade, it's not crystal clear and has a blueish tint to it.  I'm modifying the pool3d_4b2.tga texture file to have a greenish tint to it so that I can use it as my shader for swamp water.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 13, 2013, 06:34:07 am
Gig, have you looked at the islewater shader that comes with the standard OA paks?  It's has a fog parameter so distant objects fade, it's not crystal clear and has a blueish tint to it.  I'm modifying the pool3d_4b2.tga texture file to have a greenish tint to it so that I can use it as my shader for swamp water.
Very interesting! Thank you!  :)

Unfortuntaley, it's not easy for me to test OA textures/shaders, because my NetRadiant shows "shader image missing" on a lot of shaders. I have no idea about the reason. If someone could help me, that would be very appreciated. I'm just using the NetRadiant package download from here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0).
It's hard to work that way... unless I will will be to fix that problem, I think I will be forced to continue using Q3Radiant...
Take a look to the first screenshot: I've done a small room with three different kinds of OA waters (liquids/justwater, liquids/hydrowater, liquids/islewater): in the editor they look like a single "shader image missing". :-/

However, testing those three shaders:
- Justwater (left, in the second screenshot) is a classic "transparent" water, similar to those usually found in Q3. Azure in surface only.
- Islewater (right) is "foggy" water (see third screenshot).. nice but it's surface is very little transparent (a little more transparent would be better, IMHO).
- Hydrowater (center) is "foggy" (it seems a little less "dense" than "islewater"... good) and has got a nice "wave" effect... but unfortunately there is a glitch (caused by the mix of "wave"+"fog" maybe?): when the wave goes down, you can see the wall of sky blue color, like if there is water also there (see fourth screenshot, where only one kind of water is used). Maybe one may make the "blue fog" effect start from below the level where waves moves?

I suppose adding the "foggy" effect to Akom's water could be nice...



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Hitchhiker on May 13, 2013, 12:35:51 pm
Excuse me Hitch, I have not understood exactly which kind of improvement were you trying to apply to the water. When I asked you to do some kind of better water, I had in mind something like "fractal-style" waves on its surface.... something that could remind the nice water surface effects one can find in the first Unreal Tournament game (e.g. at 1:10 or 1:50 of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvyAn74I_cg)).
I liked both Q3 and UT... Although I played Q3 much more, I always recognized water effects in UT were way better than those in Q3. Do you think there is a way to do something vaguely similar?

I also thought about that GLSL tech test you showed us, where you did some kind of water. It was more than a year ago, I don't remember if that was a screenshot or a video.

From your post above, were you trying to make some refraction effect inside the water? (E.g. distorted light rays?) I was asking something for its surface...


no problem Gig, I misunderstood. I have tried to make a photorealistic water flow.. and that needs more than the engine can supply at the moment. I'll try again with a simpler approach - just adding little waves.

the water glsl shader I made is still in the ZEQ2 thread I believe. I've now made a glsl program that can do something very similar to the water effect in Unreal video - one just needs to provide the texture of the floor that is under the water surface. And there is a glsl program for more of a lake kind of water. But either of the three can be tweaked - best way is to play with the glsl code/parameters. I'll try to prepare everything in the next days.

The refraction only works on the surface but I imagine lake water could be modified to 'wave' walls of (i.e.) a pool that are underwater.

So far I've made few different glsl programs and I need to pack them together and post. I'm actually working on your map and it is under definite destruction :)
I think this way I could send you back your pak file with glsl stuff inside it. This pak could then become sort of a glsl tech demo and a place to learn glsl from.

I'm having hard time finding shaders used in the map within different pak files. Any suggestion where to look for shader definitions (which shader files) would be a great help.

Regarding the tutorial... it will probably be a bit longer to finish than I originally said. :( sorry about that..

I'll try to get this done asap.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 13, 2013, 05:13:08 pm
Unfortuntaley, it's not easy for me to test OA textures/shaders, because my NetRadiant shows "shader image missing" on a lot of shaders. I have no idea about the reason. If someone could help me, that would be very appreciated.
I'm also using NetRadiant but it has to do with the shader itself, not NetRadiant.  Took me a while (being a noob) to figure it out...  If you open the scripts/liquid_water.shader file, you'll see that for many of the textures they are missing the qer_editorimage tag.  What this line does is specify which image to be displayed in NetRadiant's composite window (3D model window).  If this line is missing from the texture, you'll get the "shader image missing" thing.

Add this line to the islewater shader as the first line;

...
qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_4b2.tga
surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm trans
surfaceparm water
cull disable
...

Save file the shader file and reload NetRadiant.  You'll now see the texture of the water (I used the same image as the one used for the water itself).  You can put whatever you want to see in the editor in that line, it's not rendered into the final map so you can put smiley faces if you'd like ;)

For the three_water and foggy_water images, this is because you have more than one brush to create your water pool.  Any two brushes that touch, you have to set the surface of that brush as "nodraw", otherwise you get a darker and denser image rendered by the engine as each of those faces will have it's own face drawn then sandwiched together.

The hydrowater works fine when you extend the edges past it's enclosure (pool edge).  This is because it creates the wave effect by shifting the edges of the water brush.  So if they line up exactly to the pool's egde, you'll see a gap appear as the water moves.

Now my turn to ask...  How the heck do you capture a screen image or video in OpenArena? I'd like to be able to post images/videos of what I'm working on to get comment as well!  ???

Thanks,
-Claude.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 14, 2013, 12:24:02 am
Now my turn to ask...  How the heck do you capture a screen image or video in OpenArena? I'd like to be able to post images/videos of what I'm working on to get comment as well!  ???
To capture a screenshot in OA...just use command console (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Command_console) to bind "screenshotjpeg" command to a key, then press that key during the game. E.g. to bind it to the F12 key, type /bind f12 screenshotjpeg. While pressing F12 during the game, a screenshot will be saved to your homepath folder (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ#Configuration_files_and_automatic_downloaded_files_path).
If using Windows, your image will appear in %appdata%\OpenArena\baseoa\screenshots (if you are using a mod, under its folder instead of "baseoa").

To export a video, you have to capture a "demo (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Demos)" first (record, stoprecord), then export it to avi file (demo <demoname>, video <videoname>).
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Demos#Export_to_a_video_file

--------
About the "black water sides" in three_waters and foggy_water screenhots, I did not mention them at all, because I guessed that was an artefact caused by having two water shaders touching without a nodraw...

About hydrowater, I'll try to align it with the border of the pool. Of course this means that you can use that shader only where the water can be completely aligned with all the (four) walls of the pool.
WAIT... Are you telling me I have to make the water (for correctly display that specific shader) HIGHER than the pool???? Really? How many units?
---------

About the shaders in NetRadiant... manually fixing all those shaders would require a lot of time... can someone publish an updated package with this problem fixed? Making the work once only for all people around here?
Uhm... that "scripts" folder is in OA pk3,s right? Editing stock pk3 files is usually "bad"... I suppose we would need a specific extra .pk3 that includes exactly the same shaders one finds in OA 0.8.8, but with the qer_editorimage parameter. Right?
Does someone already had done a such thing? Otherwise, how can you guys actually map with NetRadiant?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 14, 2013, 04:03:36 am
the water glsl shader I made is still in the ZEQ2 thread I believe.
Your old video with that GLSL powered water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYgXeGeqwA
That water already looks quite good, IMHO. If you could just give some more transparency to its surface, I think that could be very nice.
Then, having also a "flowing" version of it, would be great for my map.
Quote
I've now made a glsl program that can do something very similar to the water effect in Unreal video - one just needs to provide the texture of the floor that is under the water surface.
Interesting, but this would mean that the water shader itself will include both surface and floor textures? What would then happen if the mapper would use a different texture for the floor or the walls of the pool?
Quote
So far I've made few different glsl programs and I need to pack them together and post. I'm actually working on your map and it is under definite destruction :)
I think this way I could send you back your pak file with glsl stuff inside it. This pak could then become sort of a glsl tech demo and a place to learn glsl from.
I fear using a "real" map for a tutorial demo could be a little confusing. I would suggest you to do a smaller map from scratch (copy-pasting things from my map or from other maps if you need), and to better organize it in sections (e.g. various small pools one next to the other, etc.). Providing a simpler map would speed up compiling if people would like to try modifying the test map itself.
Quote
I'm having hard time finding shaders used in the map within different pak files. Any suggestion where to look for shader definitions (which shader files) would be a great help.
Well, I guess that 0.8.5 shaders override 0.8.1 shaders, and 0.8.8 shaders override 0.8.5 shaders. In general, pk3 files that come "later" alphabetically are loaded after the others, and if they contained files (.bsp, .jpg, etc) with the same name, those in the "later" pk3 are used.
I don't know exactly how this applies to shaders, considering that a single .shader file can define "x" shaders, and those shaders could appear in "y" different folders in the editor (because the shader file specifies the path of the shader, that I imagine may differ from the one of the .jpg it uses). What happens if A.pk3 and B.pk3 files contain test.shader and alpha.shader files respectively (different file names), and both of them define liquids/liquidtest (same shader name)?

Anyway, to search for "source" of existing shaders, I suppose you could start uncompressing the "scripts" folder from your pak6-patch088.pk3 to somewhere in your hard disk... then use a tool that allows to search for text inside files (windows xp search, file locator lite (http://www.mythicsoft.com/filelocatorlite/), FreeCommander (http://www.freecommander.com/)...). This way, you should be able to find the .shader file that contains the shader you see in the editor (I don't know if there is a way to find this out directly from the editor). If the shader name you are searching is not in any of 0.8.8 .shader files, then uncompress patch 0.8.5 .shader files to another location, and repeat the search in this location.

Quote
Regarding the tutorial... it will probably be a bit longer to finish than I originally said. :( sorry about that..
I'll try to get this done asap.
Ok, don't worry. There is no hurry... just don't forget to do it when you will have some time!  :)

Also your floor in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxMYrA0Yqsw) looks nice... is it possible to have such GLSL shader available for use?

-----------------------


@ALL - ONE MORE GENERAL THING ABOUT GLSL SHADERS. Let's decide this now that we actually start creating and using GLSL shaders. Fromhell's opinion would be welcome.

Guys, do you think we should "identify" shaders including GLSL in their name (e.g. adding _glsl -or simply _g- suffix to all of those shaders) -or placing all of them in a specific folder-, as a way to help mappers?
1) To help them finding shaders that include GLSL effects, if they wanna make their maps more cool
2) To help them reminding that they should test their maps with both GLSL support enabled and disabled, to be sure of the result in both cases?
OR should we assume that in future having shaders with GLSL support will became quite normal, or that GLSL code will be added also to "old" (already existing) shaders -that should not be renamed for compatibility reasons-, hence specifying _glsl in new shaders names only would become useless?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 14, 2013, 04:23:40 am
Hey Gig, thanks for the info.  There's alot of stuff in the Wiki but no easy way to navigate it.  A table of content would sure help here!

As for the shaders missing the editor image, I agree, the person creating them should have included an image with them.  All of the stock shaders for OA should have an editor image, this would help noobs get started with map editing.  I posted the same comment/question a while ago and got a "don't worry about it" response but stil wanted to know why I was getting the "shader image missing" message.

The hydrowater needs to extend beyond the pool walls to work properly, not align perfectly.  Probably 2 or 4 units should be enough.  Like many things around here, experiment until you get a resonable result you like (odd thing, that exact line was included in the programming manual of my first computer in 1980  :D  Funny how things always do a full circle in life!).

Cheers!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 14, 2013, 04:54:02 am
About GLSL shaders, perhaps Hitchhiker can post the source for the water and floor shaders.  This would give us (or me) an idea of the work involved in creating them.  Right now I have to agree, they look really good (based on the 2 video links posted by Gig) but as I'm still just learning now normal shaders work, I don't want to jump the gun and comment on the GLSL direction for now.

Cheers!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 14, 2013, 07:25:33 am
I've done some tests with that hydrowater shader. Anyway, that' not required for my udestruction map (there is no need for the water in my cistern to have such waves! The water in my cistern should be not too much animated, but possibly more or less of the same color of the flowing water that I need for the aqueduct.)... I was just testing.

As you can see in the screenshots I attach here, I divided the platform outside the pool into various section of different heights (with steps of 4 units: they are -8, -4, 0, +4 than the level of the water). The border effect is not good in any of them.
In the second screenshot, I applied "nodraw" on the four lateral faces of the water brush (the water texture is still on the upper and lower face of it)... the only thing it changes is that the border is transparent instead of black (where the water is higher than the wall).

Who knows? Maybe that shader is simply faulty? I don't know.

About GLSL shaders examples/sources, maybe those may be posted in the apposite GLSL thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.0)? Anyway, if in few days Hitch will release a package with various shaders and a test map, I suppose we could directly download it when it's done.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 14, 2013, 08:43:07 am
Ehm, guys, maybe all this GLSL stuff may find better place in another topic, this is: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2

The GLSL topic it's here: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.0

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 14, 2013, 08:49:37 am
I'm trying to improve my OACMP map (that is not "eye candy" due to various reasons... of course one of them is that I'm a mapping noob) by adding some GLSL effects ::), or at least by using some "classic" shaders...

By the way, it seems you didn't read the last part of my previous post:
About GLSL shaders examples/sources, maybe those may be posted in the apposite GLSL thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.0)? Anyway, if in few days Hitch will release a package with various shaders and a test map, I suppose we could directly download it when it's done.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 14, 2013, 08:55:16 am
I'm trying to improve my OACMP map (that is not "eye candy" due to various reasons) by adding some GLSL effects ::), or at least by using some "standard" shaders...

By the way, it seems you didn't read the last part of my previous post:
About GLSL shaders examples/sources, maybe those may be posted in the apposite GLSL thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.0)? Anyway, if in few days Hitch will release a package with various shaders and a test map, I suppose we could directly download it when it's done.

.... :RIP:....i've readed it after my post....  :P :P ;D

By the way, all about GLSL is to talk in the other topic, i think, and here you can post the improvement of your map linking at the GLSL topic to show how it work.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 14, 2013, 09:04:57 am
Note: what follows here was intended with an EDIT of my previous post... but considering you had already replied to that, you may have not seen it. Taking it alone, it can seem off-topic, but it's what I tried today, searching for ways to map more efficiently. Mapping with Q3Radiant configured for Q3 has got various limitations (e.g. not knowing which textures will be available in OA and how they will look), but I have not been able to make it work perfectly with OA. And using NetRadiant has got some problems, too (there is that "missing shader image" problem we mentioned in the posts above -very annoying!-... its compiler takes much longer to compile... I have some practical difficulties using it due to some differences from Q3Radiant...).



Being able to edit the map directly with OA stuff instead of with Q3 stuff in Q3Radiant would have help... today I tried to fool Q3radiant by transforming a copy of my q3+q3radiant folder in a oa folder, changing q3radiant config files to point to the new path (with baseoa)... I also copied the oa entities (.ent and .def for TA and OA stuff) from NetRadiant to Q3Radiant...
This way, opening the map in this "fooled" q3radiant correctly shows OA textures... but some items are not shown correctly (ammo boxes are not skinned and TA-OA specific items appear as simple boxes). I tried to add all pak6-patch088 .shader files to the q3radiant's shaderlist.txt... but then at startup it says that the maximum number of texture directories was reached, and it "dropped" 43 dirs... D'oh!!!  :( :(


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 14, 2013, 10:18:01 am
Being able to edit the map directly with OA stuff instead of with Q3 stuff in Q3Radiant would have help... today I tried to fool Q3radiant by transforming a copy of my q3+q3radiant folder in a oa folder, changing q3radiant config files to point to the new path (with baseoa)... I also copied the oa entities (.ent and .def for TA and OA stuff) from NetRadiant to Q3Radiant...
This way, opening the map in this "fooled" q3radiant correctly shows OA textures... but some items are not shown correctly (ammo boxes are not skinned and TA-OA specific items appear as simple boxes). I tried to add all pak6-patch088 .shader files to the q3radiant's shaderlist.txt... but then at startup it says that the maximum number of texture directories was reached, and it "dropped" 43 dirs... D'oh!!!  :( :(

This is the same way i've taked, but you have to delete originale Q3A/TA PK3.
Initially it drop 16 directory, but i have deleted some shader in shaderlist.txt and now i can work with only 3 dirs dropped, i cant dlete more shaders or textures....XD...

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Hitchhiker on May 14, 2013, 11:22:06 am
hi y'all
just last glsl post here. I think better to discuss glsl in another thread.
for glsl water like the one in Unreal, the 'floor' texture is specified in the q3 shader so the same glsl program can be used on any map.
as for tech demo, I edited the bsp file with hex editor and changed all texture/something/... :) to glshader/something/.. so basically it can be an independent map.. I'm not sure about creating a map by myself..
sorry for the thread invasion.. now off to glsl thread :)
cheers


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: fromhell on May 14, 2013, 08:15:56 pm
The GLSL derails are funny because it poked my...... non-GL software rendering thread too. All because I managed to get a water effect going in a completely different engine :P


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 15, 2013, 11:08:52 am
This is the same way i've taked, but you have to delete originale Q3A/TA PK3.
Of course, I already did this. :)
Quote
Initially it drop 16 directory, but i have deleted some shader in shaderlist.txt and now i can work with only 3 dirs dropped, i cant dlete more shaders or textures....XD...
Could you please post your shaderlist.txt? If you already did some thought about which shaders are less useful and can be left out...

@Hitch
I already guessed that more shaders could use the same glsl program (a thing that should be mentioned in the tutorial, I suppose... telling to pay caution that a glsl program could be shared by various shaders)... but anyway also requiring to have a separate shader for each different pool wall isn't very comfortable.
However, as I told before, also a water like the one of your old video (but some more transparent in surface) would be already great for me... I don't really require to see the distortion of the pool floor... a cool (small) waves layer on top is enough for me. :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 15, 2013, 12:08:46 pm
Could you please post your shaderlist.txt? If you already did some thought about which shaders are less useful and can be left out...

I've dited it and solve the 3 dirs dropped, now all work fine  :P ;D

By the way, if you use the default shaderlist.txt and add 1 to 6 custom shader, you dont hve any problem......i think....
.....depends from how many textures the shader use......

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 16, 2013, 12:06:39 am
By the way, if you use the default shaderlist.txt and add 1 to 6 custom shader, you dont hve any problem......i think....
.....depends from how many textures the shader use......
Default shaderlist.txt lists only q3 shader files... OA has got much more of them. And, as we saw with my "stripes" shader, if you use a shader that is not in shaderlist.txt of Q3Radiant, some of its properties (e.g. being non-solid) will not work correctly in-game, and of course this is bad.
Hence, adding OA shaders in Q3Radiant is important, but they are too many shader files for it to handle... so one has to cut some of them out... but how to decide which folders leave out?

I was just wondering... what if I would "join" various OA .shader files in a few bigger shader files, to have a shorter shaderlist.txt? Could that cause some problems?


PS: NetRadiant seems to do not have this "stupid" shaderlist.txt at all (I don't see shaderlist.txt option in it)... if only that program would have been more friendly for use for me, and would have not had that "missing shader image" problem (the same shaders, under Q3Radiant, seem to automatically show an image instead).

PPS: Akom, how do you see ammo boxes and TA/OA specific entities in your "tweaked" Q3Radiant?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 16, 2013, 10:27:59 am
By the way, if you use the default shaderlist.txt and add 1 to 6 custom shader, you dont hve any problem......i think....
.....depends from how many textures the shader use......
Default shaderlist.txt lists only q3 shader files... OA has got much more of them. And, as we saw with my "stripes" shader, if you use a shader that is not in shaderlist.txt of Q3Radiant, some of its properties (e.g. being non-solid) will not work correctly in-game, and of course this is bad.
Hence, adding OA shaders in Q3Radiant is important, but they are too many shader files for it to handle... so one has to cut some of them out... but how to decide which folders leave out?

I was just wondering... what if I would "join" various OA .shader files in a few bigger shader files, to have a shorter shaderlist.txt? Could that cause some problems?


PS: NetRadiant seems to do not have this "stupid" shaderlist.txt at all (I don't see shaderlist.txt option in it)... if only that program would have been more friendly for use for me, and would have not had that "missing shader image" problem (the same shaders, under Q3Radiant, seem to automatically show an image instead).

PPS: Akom, how do you see ammo boxes and TA/OA specific entities in your "tweaked" Q3Radiant?

If you make an unique file for shader you have the same problem, it non depend from the number of shader in shaderlist.txt, but depends from how many textures are called from that shaders.

I se the ammo boxes as wireframes, but i think i have do something wrong, but who care ? It work in the game  :P no problem  ;D ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 16, 2013, 10:46:41 am
In all of my GTKRadiant years I've also seen those ammo packs as wired, yet they do work in the game.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 16, 2013, 03:19:34 pm
Default shaderlist.txt lists only q3 shader files... OA has got much more of them. And, as we saw with my "stripes" shader, if you use a shader that is not in shaderlist.txt of Q3Radiant, some of its properties (e.g. being non-solid) will not work correctly in-game, and of course this is bad.
Hence, adding OA shaders in Q3Radiant is important, but they are too many shader files for it to handle... so one has to cut some of them out... but how to decide which folders leave out?

I think you dont have to leave folders out really, you only choose the one or two shader you want to use for a map and change the shaderlist.txt one shader at time. I mean to prevent the dirs dropped.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on May 16, 2013, 03:27:25 pm
My GTKRadiant for Linux does not seem to have this limitation - I've put all shaders available to shaderlist.txt. I've compiled it myself :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 20, 2013, 03:18:47 am
Excuse me Akom... with my "fooled" Q3Radiant install I'm not able to compile any map.
I got an error SetQdriFromPath: no 'quake' in C:/OA/baseoa/maps/anymap.map
Any idea?


Another thing. I'm trying to add some "eye candy" to my map. I'm trying to make some tiles "shiny" (meaning "fake" light reflection, that however you can see "moving" while you move), so I started searching for existing "shining" OA shaders. I tried various maps, and it turns out that very, very few OA maps use "shiny" shaders, and this is bad (Q3 used more!) (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4770.msg47141#msg47141). I've found out a couple in patch 088 (scripts/clown.shader), so I used one of them to make my own.

If I try to add this:
Quote
textures/gig/tile_floor1
{
   qer_editorimage textures/gig/tile_floor1.jpg
      
   {
      map textures/gig/tile_floor1.jpg
      rgbGen identity
      
   }
   {
      map textures/base_wall/chrome_env.jpg
      tcGen environment
      rgbGen oneminusvertex
      tcmod scale .5 .5
   }
   {
      map textures/gig/tile_floor1.jpg
      blendFunc add
      rgbGen identity
      
   }
   {
      map $lightmap
      blendFunc filter
      rgbGen identity
   }
}
to my shader file, and then load the map, the only thing I can notice is (maybe) a little less "sature" color for the tiles. And the reflections? I don't know!

And if I try to compile the map with its .shader file in my shaderlist.txt, it does not compile, it gives me an ERROR "LoadTGA: Only type 2 (RGB), 3 (gray) and 10 (RGB) tga images supported".

What? In that shader, all files refereced are .jpg, not .tga.... what does that mean?


UPDATE: It seemed to have no effect due to the fact I had r_vertexlight enabled (due to a previous test). Once disabled, the shader works. Anyway, this does not explain why does map compiling fail if that shader file is in shaderlist.txt! Help!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: fromhell on May 20, 2013, 09:46:58 am
I got an error SetQdriFromPath: no 'quake' in C:/OA/baseoa/maps/anymap.map
Any idea?


It parses to expect a "Quake III Arena" or "Quake3" folder. It's very dirty.
Akom probably maps for OA using a Quake3 installation, which kind of goes against the whole this-isnt-q3 independence of the project.
I believe I posted before on NOT recommending old q3radiant and q3map


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 20, 2013, 10:18:31 am
I got an error SetQdriFromPath: no 'quake' in C:/OA/baseoa/maps/anymap.map
Any idea?


It parses to expect a "Quake III Arena" or "Quake3" folder. It's very dirty.
Akom probably maps for OA using a Quake3 installation, which kind of goes against the whole this-isnt-q3 independence of the project.
I believe I posted before on NOT recommending old q3radiant and q3map

You are right, i have only deleted the Q3A PK3 and replaced them with the OA PK3.

Quote
ERROR "LoadTGA: Only type 2 (RGB), 3 (gray) and 10 (RGB) tga images supported".

This means that the shader need a TGA file to work, if you dont convert the JPG to TGA you will never compile the map. It happened to me too :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 21, 2013, 08:30:31 am
If someone could help me fixing the problems I have with NetRadiant (e.g. a lot of "missing shader image"... I can't manually add "qer_editorimage" infos to all those shaders! - Or how to track down those "Warning: surface at xyz too large for desired samplesize/lightmapsize/lightmapscale combination, inscreased samplesize from 16 to 32" messages?), I could try again to switch to it.

Example: compiling my map does not give the same result if I do it from Q3Radiant of from NetRadiant. I tried all the "final" compiling options in the NetRadiant menu... the compiling takes much longer than from Q3Radiant, and the results, well... suck.
Some things are more bright than expected, while what is in the shadows is really too dark. And there are some places (most notably, in the BFG room) where the weapon in you hand, instead of gradually switching from illuminated to not, abruptly goes dark (this does not happen with q3radiant).

Is it possible that the differences in the sky shader itself cause this?
The sky I used in Q3:
Quote
textures/skies/toxicskytim_dm8
//used in tim_dm8

{
   surfaceparm noimpact
   surfaceparm nolightmap
//   surfaceparm sky

   q3map_sun   1 1 0.5 85 220 40
   q3map_surfacelight 120

   q3map_lightimage textures/skies/toxicsky.tga
   qer_editorimage textures/skies/inteldimredclouds.tga
   skyparms - 512 -
   //cloudparms 512 full
   {
      map textures/skies/inteldimclouds.tga
      tcMod scale 3 2
      tcMod scroll 0.15 0.15
      depthWrite
   }
   {
      map textures/skies/intelredclouds.tga
      blendFunc GL_ONE GL_ONE
      tcMod scale 3 3
      tcMod scroll 0.05 0.05
   }
}

The same shader in OA:
Quote
textures/skies/toxicskytim_dm8
{
   surfaceparm noimpact
   surfaceparm nolightmap
   surfaceparm sky
   q3map_lightsubdivide 256
   q3map_surfacelight 400
   q3map_globaltexture
   q3map_sun 1 1 0.5 150 30 60
   skyParms full 700 -
   {
      map textures/skies/dimclouds.tga
      tcMod scroll -0.013 0.04
   }
   {
      map textures/skies/dimclouds.tga
      blendfunc add
      tcMod scroll 0.02 0.07
   }
}
If I compile the map in Q3, and then play it in OA, the color of the sky changes, but the map lightning seems more or less the same.
Any idea about the reason why, in the original shader, they commented out "//surfaceparm sky"?
Maybe it's that "q3map_surfacelight 120" -> "q3map_surfacelight 400" that causes some surfaces to be too bright?
Maybe it's this implementation of toxicskytim_dm8 in OA that sucks, and I should try more skies... but the longer compiling times from NetRadiant actually make "trial-and-error" tests a pain...

PS: the "shiny surface" shader I mentioned in my previous post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47219#msg47219) works quite well. I would suggest mappers to use similar effects more. You can also easily achieve a slightly different version (in OA, less distracting) by specifying "chrome_env2.jpg" instad of "chrome_env.jpg", depending from what you wish. However, the effects of the shader are very noticeable or little noticeable depending from your texture...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 21, 2013, 12:28:18 pm
Hey Gig,

Probably the difference is that Q3Radiant calls "Q3Map v1.0p (c) 1999 Id Software Inc." to compile the map and NetRadiant calls the newer version "Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.17n".  The first is "q3map.exe" while the second is "q3map2.exe".  From what I understand, the new version has improved (although you're probably debating that right now) shader handling.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 21, 2013, 07:51:35 pm
Gig,

If you're looking for "eye candy" for your maps, take a look at Simon's work.  He doesn't use GLSL and it's all work (read magic) is done with q3map2 shaders.  An excellent example of the "stripes" on a jump pad can be found here ... http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/mp/focal.htm 

Also, take a look at the focal point shader work.  It's amazing!  You can download the source map and take a look at how he does his shaders.  When you start to understand what's he's doing, you'll be blown away.  I'm just starting to understand his blending techniques, phong shading and trying building a map based on his work and mods I'm doing to the shaders.  It certainly won't be GPLv2 but it's giving me a whole bunch of stuff to learn right now ;)  I'll post my map once I have the 'Swamp' portion done (1/4 of the final map).

Cheers!




Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on May 26, 2013, 08:25:41 am
Any news about your maps, people?
This is taking too long...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 26, 2013, 11:23:56 am
Sorry for having not released V8 yet. I've spent the last week working on some ways to make the map look a bit better (have you followed the GLSL thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.msg47259#new)? What do you think about this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.msg47236#msg47236)?). I'd like to post the next version with the GLSL water working correctly!  :) But I also added some "classic" shaders, to make some "shining" surfaces. And I did a couple of minor changes that involve gameplay.

I've also done some tries to compile the map from NetRadiant instead of from Q3Radiant... The OA version of the sky I used gives a little too much different lighting results from the original one (take a look to this shader comparison (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47230#msg47230)), so I made a modified version of it to try make it illuminate more like the original one. But again, I can't figure out why when I go to the end of the BFG room, the weapon in my hand appears suddently dark, instead of gradually, if the map is compiled with Q3MAP2 (using all different "final" compile options in NetRadiant - PS: which one should I use?).
NeonKnight, could you please try to compile the "old" Udestruction V7 on your machine, and tell me if you have any idea about the reason why that strange thing happen? Thank you!

PS: I think I will not be able to release V8 in the first half of the week, I'll be busy with work in the next few days.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 26, 2013, 12:45:30 pm
Any news about your maps, people?
This is taking too long...

I have figured out that my maps was completed for this first volume. Am i wrong ? May i have misunderstanding ?
I was waiting for the second volume....... :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 27, 2013, 10:46:50 am
Any news about your maps, people?
This is taking too long...

I have figured out that my maps was completed for this first volume. Am i wrong ? May i have misunderstanding ?
I was waiting for the second volume....... :P

;)
Well, in the meanwhile you could try to add some extra "eye candy" to your maps (GLSL if you wish, but not necessarily... nice things can be done also with "classic" shaders (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4770.msg47141#msg47141)), or add Domination and Double Domination support in your FFA maps.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 27, 2013, 12:05:13 pm
Quote
Well, in the meanwhile you could try to add some extra "eye candy" to your maps (GLSL if you wish, but not necessarily

My two cents on GLSL stuff...  Given the problems I'm having trying to get it working on my laptop, I would be careful adding any GLSL support to maps.  If a gamer has a similar system to mine which does not support it, your 'eye candy' will look like crap, thus doing the complete opposite effect you're looking for.

To me there should be a way to identify in the .glsl file which extensions or version it's using and have the game engine check the user's version.  If it's below minimal requirements, the game should have a way to look at a different shader file that does not have GLSL code in it.  This way, users with "better" system get the full effect without affecting those who have 'regular' or older systems.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 27, 2013, 01:34:57 pm
Any news about your maps, people?
This is taking too long...

I have figured out that my maps was completed for this first volume. Am i wrong ? May i have misunderstanding ?
I was waiting for the second volume....... :P

;)
Well, in the meanwhile you could try to add some extra "eye candy" to your maps (GLSL if you wish, but not necessarily... nice things can be done also with "classic" shaders (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4770.msg47141#msg47141)), or add Domination and Double Domination support in your FFA maps.  :)

My time is more little than before, i dont think to use GLSL feature for my map at the moment.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 27, 2013, 01:36:28 pm
@CGB01:
Well, in part it's due to the fact that Hitch's files still need some tweaks (and sometimes you tried to use them in the wrong way), and in part there is some problem with different glsl versions.

However, making also the "non-glsl" version of each shader look good is a main objective. Glsl is optional. If a certain glsl program does not compile correctly on a certain machine, the standard shader is automatically used instead.

Update: it seems there is however a flaw in current glsl implementation (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4767.msg47283#msg47283), that prevents applying diffent "blendfunc"s when using glsl or not... and this can make it difficult to have a certan shader look good in both glsl and standard modes... D'oh!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 30, 2013, 01:35:33 am
Guys, another question about NetRadiant.
Unlike Q3Radiant, it does not place a "shaderlist.txt" file in my game install folder\scripts (Q3radiant install places a shaderlist.txt in your installation folder/scripts, that already contains Q3 shaders... so you can just add a few lines mentioning your .shader files). So, I imagine NetRadiant loads it from directly from the .pk3. So, what's the correct way to add my own shader files into NetRadiant? If I create a shaderlist.txt into my /scripts folder, will all the shaders listed in the pk3 be ignored? Should I mention both "stock" and "my" .shader files in that shaderlist.txt? Or would the editor "sum" the shaderlist.txt it finds in the pk3s with the one in my folder, so I can write only mine there?

Reminder: having a .shader file mentioned in shaderlist.txt is useful for two things: 1) the editor knows shaders' "surface parameters" while compiling (e.g. knows that brush is "water" instead of "solid"); 2) allows to see its shaders in the editor (otherwise, you would see them only if the shader has got the same exact name of an image file.


PS: still hoping to get some help for the previous NetRadiant troubles (e.g. this one (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47265#msg47265))...

PPS: yet another question about NetRadiant (I really can't map without knowing its differences from Q3Radiant)... in Q3Radiant, to make a (A) brush "get" the same texture of another brush (B), aligned to it... I simply select (ctrl+left click) A, then right-click on B (from the 3d view). Done. What I am supposed to do in NetRadiant for the same result? In NetRadiant, right click in 3d view just enters/leaves "free look" mode.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 30, 2013, 06:13:12 am
Hey Gig,

My understanding is that if NetRadiant doesn't find a shaderlist.txt file in \scripts directory, it will use the default shaderlist for the game you've selected.  In the case of Open Arena, the default shader file is found in the NetRadiant Install Dir\oa.game\baseoa\default_shaderlist.txt, but I could be wrong there.  I unpacked all of the OA pk3s to get all the textures and scripts out of it into my working baseoa directory.

Re: (PPS), I would suggest you look in Q3Radiant to find what the shortcut key is (help/command list...) and find the same in NetRadiant.  Please let me know what that shortcut key is, I didn't know you could do that!  ;)

Cheers!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 30, 2013, 09:11:50 am
Guys another thing. I just realized that any "water" brush I use in my map (tried with different shaders and different brushes), has got double "marks on walls" (also on water surface, other than on the bottom). I really don't get this. If i use the same shader on another map, the problem does not occur. Any idea?
The problem occurs also if I compile the map from NetRadiant instead of Q3 Radiant.

PLEASE HELP!!!

PS:
In the case of Open Arena, the default shader file is found in the NetRadiant Install Dir\oa.game\baseoa\default_shaderlist.txt, but I could be wrong there.  I unpacked all of the OA pk3s to get all the textures and scripts out of it into my working baseoa directory.

What? My NetRadiant folder does NOT have that file! How's that possible? In oa.game\basea I have only entities.def, entities-ta.def, entities.ent and entitites-ta.ent... nothing more.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 30, 2013, 09:29:26 am
Quote
What? My NetRadiant folder does NOT have that file! How's that possible? In oa.game\basea I have only entities.def, entities-ta.def, entities.ent and entitites-ta.ent... nothing more.

Then I suggest you re-download the package and re-install because it's in the original zip file...  http://ingar.satgnu.net/gtkradiant/files/netradiant-20120705-win32.zip



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 30, 2013, 09:30:31 am
@Gig: I have the same issue with GTKradiant 1.6 for textures alignement and i leaving that editor to return to Q3Radiant that work better with textures. I suggest you to build the map with Q3Radiant and use NETradiant (or GTKradiant) to add TA items or other things and for compile the map.

For double mark in the water you have to resize the brush of the water to exceed in the brush around it, and also the low part.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 30, 2013, 09:39:25 am
Quote
What? My NetRadiant folder does NOT have that file! How's that possible? In oa.game\basea I have only entities.def, entities-ta.def, entities.ent and entitites-ta.ent... nothing more.

Then I suggest you re-download the package and re-install because it's in the original zip file...  http://ingar.satgnu.net/gtkradiant/files/netradiant-20120705-win32.zip

The one I downloaded was this one: http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/netradiant-1.5.0-20110223-withoa.zip
From this thread by Sago007: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0
Is that flawed?  ???


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on May 30, 2013, 09:42:32 am
Quote
What? My NetRadiant folder does NOT have that file! How's that possible? In oa.game\basea I have only entities.def, entities-ta.def, entities.ent and entitites-ta.ent... nothing more.

Then I suggest you re-download the package and re-install because it's in the original zip file...  http://ingar.satgnu.net/gtkradiant/files/netradiant-20120705-win32.zip

The one I downloaded was this one: http://files.poulsander.com/~poul19/public_files/netradiant-1.5.0-20110223-withoa.zip
From this thread by Sago007: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.0
Is that flawed?  ???

Don't know if it's flawed, but your version is dated Feb-23/2011 while mine is over a year older at July-05/2012.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on May 30, 2013, 09:58:44 am
@Gig: I have the same issue with GTKradiant 1.6 for textures alignement and i leaving that editor to return to Q3Radiant that work better with textures. I suggest you to build the map with Q3Radiant and use NETradiant (or GTKradiant) to add TA items or other things and for compile the map.
I can't believe there is no way to do that. I hope Sago or Neon_Knight may tell us how to do. That's almost a fundamental action.

Quote
For double mark in the water you have to resize the brush of the water to exceed in the brush around it, and also the low part.
;)
Uh? I tried enlarging by 4 units the water, in the four directions plus downside, and recompiled... but this does not seem to solve the problem. It seems nothing changed.  ??? Could you please try compiling my map yourself? Thank you!
And does not explain why in a simple test map the water works correctly, without the need a such tweak...  :-\


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on May 30, 2013, 10:47:09 am
Quote
For double mark in the water you have to resize the brush of the water to exceed in the brush around it, and also the low part.
;)
Uh? I tried enlarging by 4 units the water, in the four directions plus downside, and recompiled... but this does not seem to solve the problem. It seems nothing changed.  ??? Could you please try compiling my map yourself? Thank you!
And does not explain why in a simple test map the water works correctly, without the need a such tweak...  :-\

I'm editing your map for compiling it, but seems that Q3Radiant make a fake compile process, it compile i 31 secs, but nothing changes when i try it in OA......
.....i'm doing some try.......i'll tell you....

;)

EDIT: I don't understand, i think it's something wrong with the script, but it seems the original OA script......  ??? ::)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 03, 2013, 12:50:56 am
Uh? If you are talking about Q3Radiant, the script that compiles a map may get "broken" quite easily due to a bug in the editor (I mentioned this problem here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling#Q3Radiant)). If your compiling options got broken, you have to manually fix your quake.qe4 file.

However, I wanted to tell you that you may try to rename the .map file before compiling it... and to scroll compiling log carefully, searching for errors.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 03, 2013, 11:52:34 am
Uh? If you are talking about Q3Radiant, the script that compiles a map may get "broken" quite easily due to a bug in the editor (I mentioned this problem here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Multithreaded_map_compiling#Q3Radiant)). If your compiling options got broken, you have to manually fix your quake.qe4 file.

However, I wanted to tell you that you may try to rename the .map file before compiling it... and to scroll compiling log carefully, searching for errors.

I forget to update :P
It work, it was my mistake with the gig_stripes.shader  :P ::)

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 04, 2013, 01:38:46 am

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.
Uhm... I just recompiled from udestruction v7 (the version I suppose you tried with), and I see "double" marks in both aqueduct and cistern (with both clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3). Both compiling from Q3Radiant and from NetRadiant. I'm very confused.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 04, 2013, 09:01:09 am

The double mark in the water works in that way only with the clear_ripple3, if you use clear_ripple2 the mark is only in the bottom and not on the water, i think it's the original shader that not work properly.
Uhm... I just recompiled from udestruction v7 (the version I suppose you tried with), and I see "double" marks in both aqueduct and cistern (with both clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3). Both compiling from Q3Radiant and from NetRadiant. I'm very confused.

Maybe you have make some mistake with shaders ?? (question)
I have resized the brush of the aqueduct as i suggested you ?

I my OA the clear_ripple 2 don't give the double mark issue.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 04, 2013, 10:59:36 am
Making a series of tests, I've just figured out that THE PROBLEM OCCURS WHERE THE WATER IS 21 UNITS DEEP OR LOWER.
Where the water is 22 units deep or more, the problem does not occur.
(Tested with Q3A)

I don't how to workaround this... simply extending the water brush into the floor (to reach a total of 22 units or more) does not fix the problem.

I've just taken a look to FlagRaiders mod's SPCTFMAP1 and SPCTFBONUS maps (at the beginning of them there is a little of water), and the glitch appears there too (although it's less noticeable due to the fact that water is more dark blue by itself).

Any ideas, guys?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 05, 2013, 12:52:29 am
A place to test the problem in baseoa: "the cistern" map (oa_dm5, see screenshot).
Where the water is not deep enough (less than 22 units), marks are left also on water surface, other than on pool bottom.
I can guess this may be a bug in gamecode (there since Q3A), and that would require a fix in OAX by Sago or similar. I can imagine that maybe some other water-related feature (e.g. influencing players movement) may not apply if the water is not at least 22 units deep, but Id Software programmers did not thought about the fact the "mark" should have been disabled also for less deep water.

Any workaround possible?

Note: in this screenshot of the "double marks", the one of the water surface is not exacly vertically above the one on the ground, but is a little on the right... maybe due to the fact the ground in that place is not horizontal, but diagonal.
Afeter some other tests, I can see that if the floor is sloping, the mark on the water surface is not vertically above the one on the bottom, but shifted... and this is not good... where there are sloping ramps to get out of a pool, the problem can become very noticeable (although I don't know the reason why this does not seem to affect HYDRONEX and HYDRONEX2 maps... maybe their water shaders have got something that prevents the problem from happening?).

PS: In another place where I added water, it seems that 22 was not enough, but with 24 it worked also there... maybe I erroneously counted the units, or there is also some other "variable" that affects the behavior...

PPS: I think that in my map I will limit the water level to 1 unit... this makes the problem much less noticeable (though still there), but of course it cannot be adapt for many situations.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: CGB01 on June 05, 2013, 05:49:36 am
Gig, I wonder if it's because none of the clear_ripple1, clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3 don't have the surfaceparm nomarks shader instruction.  Doesn't really explain why shallow water gets the marks while deep water doesn't.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 05, 2013, 06:31:29 am
Gig, I wonder if it's because none of the clear_ripple1, clear_ripple2 and clear_ripple3 don't have the surfaceparm nomarks shader instruction.
Thank you man, I added "surfaceparm nomarks" to my customized water shader, and now the water seems to work correctly.  :)  :)  :) I wonder why I did not try this before...  ::)
Well, when I took a look to "hydrowater" shader, comparing it to "clear_ripple2" and "brwnwater", I saw all three of them had three "surfaceparm" parameters, so I ingenuously thought they were the same and I focused on their different "blendfunc" parameters in the various stages. I didn't notice that hydrowater had "surfaceparm nomarks" due to the fact it had the same total of three surfaceparms.... and I didn't notice it was because it lacked the "nonsolid" one. D'oh!
Trivia: in Q3A's liquid.shader file, there is only one shader that has got "surfaceparm nomarks" (liquids/proto_gruel), while OA's liquid_water.shader file has got more than a dozen of shaders with "nomarks" (but all those "clear_ripple*" NOT).

Maybe in the next OA release, we could tweak all remaining water shaders, adding "sufarceparm nomarks" to all of them (some more testing may be required anyay, to be sure this would not have bad side effects... but considering many OA water shaders already have it, probably it's safe enough).
I have not tested yet if map re-compiling is necessary to have the change effective.

Quote
Doesn't really explain why shallow water gets the marks while deep water doesn't.
Yes. Hence, I suppose a fix in the gamecode, too, may be welcome anyway (that would allow to also fix custom third-party water shaders in third-party maps... a thing not possible by simply tweaking baseoa shaders). Of course, if it's not too difficult/invasive.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 10, 2013, 06:47:52 am
Hi guys, how are you? My map is progressing well. I think I should be able to give you V8 this week.
But a question... do you think that there is some way to make the "flowing" water give a little "push" to the player (to the direction it is flowing to)?
I fear that's not possible (at the moment, I don't remember any map with a such thing), but maybe you guys know some way I don't know...
Maybe using target_push (instead of the usual trigger_push used for jump-pads), giving it a facing angle and a small "speed" value?

PS: searching for infos about the above thing, I noticed a line in Q3Radiant manual (http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm): it looks like there is a "grapplereach" option for the BSPC command... has someone ever tried it?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 10, 2013, 12:11:21 pm
Hi all, in my little time, i'm working to some maps:
http://akom74.forumattivo.com/t185-oa-community-mappack

@Gig: I don't know how it's possible to give the push effect to the water, if it's possible i mean.
If you put any trigger_push entity the player will hear the push sound when he enter in the trigger, and i think it's not the right way.... ....sorry, i never try this feature...

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 11, 2013, 01:29:36 am
I've just done a few tests with a trigger_multiple with a target_push. I have not been able do to what I was trying (all I obtained was a sort of invisible force field that made your movement difficult while you are in it, but in all directions and that does nothing if you are not moving.  :(
If you guys have something to suggest, I will try... but I fear that id Software did not foresee a such feature (baseq3 had not map with "flowing" water).

What about a func_train on the floor of the aqueduct instead?

UPDATE: I'm figuring out that a such "func_train" along all the aqueduct would be a huge work due to the fact I would need many (distinct but touching each other) "trains" to have a continuous effect... but I would like to do some tests anyway, just to see if that would give the effect I'm searching for.

But I'm not good to make this "train" thing work at all. Could someone please give me some hint, or link a tutorial for using it?
I created a square brush, and made it "func_train", then placed a path_corner at various meters from it, and linked them with "target" and "targetname" keys. But I read I should specify an "origin"... if I manually specify an "origin" key with coordinates, the train brush does not even appear in the game... I can see it exists a "common/origin" texture, but I have no idea about how to use it.

UPDATE2: I found out how to use trains (http://www.ehow.com/how_4546377_create-functrain-gtkradiant.html). Currently making some tries...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 11, 2013, 08:50:17 am
Not yet completely sure, but it seems the "train" trick may work (of course, only with "thin" water, with the character not swimming... although maybe it's not so realistic... in practice, it's just a conveyor belt placed under water surface).

To be able to save a lot of work, I have a question:
Can two distinct "func_train"s follow the same exact path (with the exception of the very first part), sharing the same path_corner points?
I mean, I did a first train (made with a big brush with a standard texture + a small brush with "common/origin" texture) that, from its origin, goes to -> A -> B -> C -> D -> A path_corner points (D point has got the same position and size of the train's "origin" brush), and have it working.
Then I duplicated the first train, and moved this second one to have the forward side the second one touching the back side of the first one, and I made the second one to point target "D". But the second one does not show up in the game.
What may have I done wrong? What's the actual starting point of trains when the map starts? Their origin or the first path_corner?


And by the way... what's that "Smart Entities -> Smart Train" that I can see in the right-click menu of q3radiant, but that is not in the entity list?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 12, 2013, 02:52:14 am
Uhm... trying to make these multiple "trains" follow the same paths, I even got situations where the game stucks on map load.
I'm going to abort this "train" idea, it's too complicated for a so little change in gameplay, and that -although nice- would not be very realistic anyway.


Title: UDESTRUCTION V8 available for download
Post by: Gig on June 14, 2013, 07:08:16 am
Under Destruction beta version 8 is available for download here:
http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version08.pk3
(Link may not be effective forever)


Sorry for having you wait so much, but I spent a lot of time with shaders (and I'm still a noob with them... although consulting Q3 shader manual, I only partially understood what I was doing), and trying to implement some things that at the end I had to left out due to being too difficult or with bad looking results.

Map polishing isn't 100% complete, but I think it is going good.

Changes about gameplay (few):
- The jump pad that allows you to take the megahealth now brings you to the roof of the temple, instead of making you bounce vertically over and over again.
- Now it's more easy to rocket-jump from the "personal teleporter/invulnerability/kamikaze" platform to the aqueduct.
- A bit bigger windows in the BFG room should allow to throw in grenades more easily.

Changes about map looking:
- Customized jump-pads
- Custom accelarator pads
- Customized sky (illumination tweaked)
- Added "reflection-like" (not actually mirroring) "shiny" effects to various surfaces (on tiles in the ruined house, floor and colums of the temple, some gametype-dependent "marble" brushes).
- Added "colored stripes" effect (this time, with a circular brush) under gametype-oriented things as flags and obelisks.
- Custom blue-ish water effects. In particular, fast-flowing water on the aqueduct. Do you like it?
- A little more use of "pebbles" and "grass" textures (some grass should also help a little to find the door button). Also a short path of stones inside the ruined house garden.
- Changed color of light entities, from default white to the same color that the sky should generate (green-ish).
- The personal teleporter/etc. platform (now shiny) now contains an OA logo on the side, if you look carefully.

What do you think about it? I'm waiting for your opinions and suggestions.


PS: A note about water: did I tell you that fortunately "surfaceparm nomarks" does not require map recompile to be effective?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 14, 2013, 09:42:35 am
@Gig: i really appreciate this version, lot of customs stuff are welcome. Oa need new textures and custom effects. I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.

The map still dont have an ambient sound :P

Can you make a "blank" textures for bounce pad and jumppad ? I mean without marble, briks or other textures in background ? It will be used for more maps, and i love the bouncepad you created :D

The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 14, 2013, 10:33:30 am
@Gig: i really appreciate this version, lot of customs stuff are welcome. Oa need new textures and custom effects.
Thank you, however for the effects I simply looked into existing stock oa maps (downloaded from svn source .map files of maps containing interesting effects, and unzipped 0.8.1, 0.8.5 and 0.8.8 shader files to folders where I could make text string searches), then copied a few shaders I liked, applied them to my own textures and played a little with some parameters...

Quote
I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.
After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.

Quote
The map still dont have an ambient sound :P
I have not decided yet if using music or not. The delay (and yellow warning) that happens when music restarts is not too nice.

Quote
Can you make a "blank" textures for bounce pad and jumppad ? I mean without marble, briks or other textures in background ? It will be used for more maps, and i love the bouncepad you created :D
I just took the standard oa jumppad, and modified the two images that compose it, to add some more details and change the colors. I started from one-layer OA jpg and tga (I have not been able to find multi-layer "sources" for them)... anyway I have the multi-layer .psd files with my changes (of course I will release all my .psd files with the final map, but if you want I can already post this one the next Monday), and there I somehow managed to separe the circular part from the bricks (using magnetic lazo tool, IIRC).

Quote
The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.
If Pelya will upload this version to his server, we may schedule an online test.
By the way... Pelya, did you receive some feedback about the oacmp maps from (occasional?) players in your server?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 14, 2013, 11:22:55 am
Quote
I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.
After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.
Well, bots were sniping me rather well while I was in the air. I don't know about human players, it probably will be more difficult for them. I cannot decide if grappling hook really gives you any advantage on this map, maybe it will, if you learn some shortcut routes. Human players tend to call everyone cheaters regardless of what tricks or weapons you are using anyway :P

Quote
The map need to be tested in an online game to see how the gamer play, but i think it's a good one.
If Pelya will upload this version to his server, we may schedule an online test.
By the way... Pelya, did you receive some feedback about the oacmp maps from (occasional?) players in your server?
I do not monitor my server, because I'm poor admin (also I've redirected logfile to /dev/null, because the server is running from SD card). I'll upload Beta8 to my server, when I'll get home today. (Edit: did that).
I'm also available for few games during weekend, so go on and schedule it.
BTW there's only 3 issues left for OACMP release (from my point of view of course, Gig asked for several more enhancements):
1. Teleport looking like piece of wall in oajgdm2.
2. No support for FFA/TDM/DD/One flag capture modes in oajgctf1.
3. Final version of Udestruction. Actually I was happy with Beta7, but Gig keeps polishing it, that's not something bad of course :)
I hope I'll have a bit of free time during weekends to fix first two issues.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Suicizer on June 16, 2013, 04:09:46 pm
Quote
I think you can delete the grappling hook, players can go on the walls and change weapon for sniping from every place in the air.
After the previous version, someone (Pelya maybe?) told that you were enough an easy target while you were attached to walls. I'd like to know more opinions, I don't know what to do.
Well, bots were sniping me rather well while I was in the air. I don't know about human players, it probably will be more difficult for them. I cannot decide if grappling hook really gives you any advantage on this map, maybe it will, if you learn some shortcut routes. Human players tend to call everyone cheaters regardless of what tricks or weapons you are using anyway :P

OMG how did you kill me cheetah!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 16, 2013, 04:40:21 pm
I've updated oajgctf1 map (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1alpha3.pk3/download), this fixes these bugs (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47088#msg47088), and adds support for Domination, DD, One Flag and Overload game modes. My BSPC seems to be dysfunctional, because the bots are behaving weirdly. Can that be because I've removed botclip walls and clusterportals around the map? AAS file size is just 90 Kb. I guess so, because AAS file compiles fine for the original version, and bots are running everywhere.
Also, when I've compiled the oajgctf1 for the first time, the map was pitch-dark, so I've had to create another shader for illuminated sky. How are you guys compiling those maps? Am I missing something? BTW I'm using latest GTKRadiant.
I'll try to fix bot issues when I'll have some free time, probably next weekend.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 17, 2013, 04:24:59 am
@All, especially Akom:
Okay, I've published the source of the jump-pad you liked, just check this thread: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4785.0

Feel free to further customize it as you wish.

@All, especially Pelya:
Interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot test it today.
I have to admit I would have preferred if Jan himself would have updated his map, instead of having a "fork". What about sending a PM to Jan, asking him to take a look to your version, and continuing from there if he wants?
About the sky, is it possible that you forgot to add a .shader file from Jan to your shaderlist.txt? It is important, because one may risk that also other shaders may look correctly, but may lack important parameters (examples: emitting light or being non-solid) that are considered by the map compiler only if the shader is listed in shaderlist.txt.
Or maybe Jan forgot to include a .shader file (the one containing the sky) into his package, maybe? With a quick look into his "z_zoajgdm3alpha5.pk3" file, it looks like none of the three .shader files included has got a "q3map_sun" line (I think that shader creator should balance both q3map_sun and q3map_surfaceLight parameters to find the illumination result he likes for his map). Maybe that shader file is in the package of one of his other maps, that show a similar azure sky?

UPDATE: I PM'd Jan, just asking him to take a look to your post.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: GrosBedo on June 17, 2013, 05:07:04 am
I only tried the Udestruction map from Gig yet, and I like it a lot. The architecture could be reworked a bit for some parts (mainly the walls of the big structures), but overall it's a kinda nice open map, and these are not common in OA, so it's a welcome addition.

I particularly like the triple jumpad to the megahealth (although most players will get killed before reaching it), and above all I liked the water streams floors, which slow you down in one direction and make you faster in another direction. This is so clever that I think it SHOULD be reused in other maps as an alternative to jumppads (I don't know if you can control the power of the water streams, but if that's the case, you can make it powerful enough to give a real sense of speed and fun! - just like in one of the subgames in Kinect Adventures).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 17, 2013, 06:24:39 am
General:
Thank you very much for the praise!  ;D

Question:
Can I ask you what do you think about the grappling hook?

Water flow:
Are you kidding me, my friend?  ???

I tried in various ways (check previous posts) to implement something that allowed the water stream to "push" you in a direction (and slow you down in the other one).... I've spent a considerable time, but I failed and I gave up (until someone may give some other idea about how to do it). I just checked, you run in both directions at the same 266 ups (instead of the usual 320 ups, I suppose that having your feet in water slows you down a little). Unfortunately, water flow is just a visual effect with no "directional push"...

I've just thought that I may try to make the aqueduct "sloping", but I tried with the ramps of the cistern, and I see you have the same speed when running going up and when going down: nothing to do. Maybe I could make a try adding "surfaceparm slick" to a ramp, but I fear that would not be exactly what I'm searching for.
And making the aqueduct sloping may cause me some problems (technical and gameplay-related)...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on June 17, 2013, 06:47:30 am
@All, especially Akom:
Okay, I've published the source of the jump-pad you liked, just check this thread: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4785.0

Feel free to further customize it as you wish.

@All, especially Pelya:
Interesting. Unfortunately, I cannot test it today.
I have to admit I would have preferred if Jan himself would have updated his map, instead of having a "fork". What about sending a PM to Jan, asking him to take a look to your version, and continuing from there if he wants?
About the sky, is it possible that you forgot to add a .shader file from Jan to your shaderlist.txt? It is important, because one may risk that also other shaders may look correctly, but may lack important parameters (examples: emitting light or being non-solid) that are considered by the map compiler only if the shader is listed in shaderlist.txt.
Or maybe Jan forgot to include a .shader file (the one containing the sky) into his package, maybe? With a quick look into his "z_zoajgdm3alpha5.pk3" file, it looks like none of the three .shader files included has got a "q3map_sun" line (I think that shader creator should balance both q3map_sun and q3map_surfaceLight parameters to find the illumination result he likes for his map). Maybe that shader file is in the package of one of his other maps, that show a similar azure sky?

UPDATE: I PM'd Jan, just asking him to take a look to your post.

I've updated oajgctf1 map (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1alpha3.pk3/download), this fixes these bugs (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47088#msg47088), and adds support for Domination, DD, One Flag and Overload game modes. My BSPC seems to be dysfunctional, because the bots are behaving weirdly. Can that be because I've removed botclip walls and clusterportals around the map? AAS file size is just 90 Kb. I guess so, because AAS file compiles fine for the original version, and bots are running everywhere.
Also, when I've compiled the oajgctf1 for the first time, the map was pitch-dark, so I've had to create another shader for illuminated sky. How are you guys compiling those maps? Am I missing something? BTW I'm using latest GTKRadiant.
I'll try to fix bot issues when I'll have some free time, probably next weekend.

Thats my fault; My radiant doesn't load all shader files that i want it to, so i just hack existing files to make it work...and in that work flow i don't always copy over every detail into a seperate .shader file. Anyway:
Code:
q3map_skyLight 250 6
q3map_lightSubdivide 32
q3map_lightRGB 1.0 1.0 0.9
That should be it...you may want to tweak it

As far continueing my work: the 5th of july should be my final (for this semester) exam so after that i should have some time again. I think that would be too late for this pack...

I shall however not consider your work as a fork, but simply as a contribution - hoping to continue bugfixing from there.

The botclip and clusterportals where used to create only small clusters, so low area's per cluster; to avoid bot-stutter with a large number of bots...now this was once relevant to Q3, i do not know how much of the botcode for OA is improved; does it still sometimes stutter? If not, then we don't need botclips and clusterportals.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 17, 2013, 06:50:54 am
Once I have a bit of time, I'll update every map on this thread.

As far continueing my work: the 5th of july should be my final (for this semester) exam so after that i should have some time again. I think that would be too late for this pack...

I shall however not consider your work as a fork, but simply as a contribution - hoping to continue bugfixing from there.
The people involved with the pack has voted for a "when its's done" deadline, so there's a lot of time.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 17, 2013, 10:46:12 am
Once I have a bit of time, I'll update every map on this thread.

As far continueing my work: the 5th of july should be my final (for this semester) exam so after that i should have some time again. I think that would be too late for this pack...

I shall however not consider your work as a fork, but simply as a contribution - hoping to continue bugfixing from there.
The people involved with the pack has voted for a "when its's done" deadline, so there's a lot of time.

Can we (or you Neon_Knight) open a "Volume Two" thread to start and modify some other jobs (maps) ? I think our mappers jobs will be improved by suggestion of the other member of this forum.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 18, 2013, 03:51:21 am
I've updated oajgctf1 map (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1alpha3.pk3/download), this fixes these bugs (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47088#msg47088), and adds support for Domination, DD, One Flag and Overload game modes. My BSPC seems to be dysfunctional, because the bots are behaving weirdly. Can that be because I've removed botclip walls and clusterportals around the map? AAS file size is just 90 Kb. I guess so, because AAS file compiles fine for the original version, and bots are running everywhere.
Also, when I've compiled the oajgctf1 for the first time, the map was pitch-dark, so I've had to create another shader for illuminated sky. How are you guys compiling those maps? Am I missing something? BTW I'm using latest GTKRadiant.
I'll try to fix bot issues when I'll have some free time, probably next weekend.

I tested oajgctf1 alpha 3.

Pros: Various bugs and problems have been fixed, more gametypes are available.  :) Thank you! :)

Problems:
1) In previous versions, bots did behave weirdly (they tended to stay next to the entrance of the underground tunnel, and only rarely attacked enemy base)... now they behave worse (they stay still most of the time, sometimes even ignore the enemy). I have no idea about the reason. I can see in the editor that the map still does have no item_botroam... however I think they should be attracted by items and gametype objectives anyway, so I don't know what to think. Help from more experienced mappers (Akom, Neon_Knight, Sago...?) would be welcome.

2) Team_neutralobelisk (in the middle of the map, shown in Oneflag and Harvester modes only) seems to me "floating in the air" a little.. maybe it's just a sensation. I opened the map in the editor, I think you should lower it by 8 units (its "origin" should be aligned with the ground). Team_blueobelisk and team_redobelisk origins, instead, seem to be correctly aligned.

3) The Megahealth in the middle of the map should be disabled for Harvester, Oneflag and Domination modes, because having it spawing inside the flag pedestal isn't nice to see (see first screenshot). If you want to still have a megahealth in the middle of the map available in these modes, I would suggest you a possible solution: adding "!gametype/oneflag, harvester, dom" key to the current megahealth, then placing a second megahealth in the lower floor (just under the original one), applying "gametype/oneflag, harvester, dom" key to it. Of course, other possible solutions may include simply moving the flag (plus the domination point and the neutralobelisk) or the megahealth to the other level.

4) A way (jump-pad, ramp or staircase) to reach the place I show in the second screenshot (where I shoot at) is still missing.

5) A single domination point isn't too few? Almost all the action would happen in the middle of the map. Well, maybe that's exacly what you are aiming for.


UPDATE: About bots behaviour, I tried recompiling the map myself from NetRadiant 1.5.
I did only a very quick test, so I did not add this map's shaders to my shaderlist.txt: the map compiled dark, but AFAIK bots don't use light information so I can imagine this should not be a problem. Of course, I can guess this may have caused the compiler did not "read" also other shaders' properties, however the map allows to go from flag to flag without necessarily passing trough "strange" shaders.

However, I experienced the same problems of bots staying still where the spawn.

I paste BSPC log here:
Quote
BSPC version 2.0, Jun 21 2000 16:12:44 by Mr Elusive
bsp2aas: test.bsp to test.aas
-- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP --
Loading map from test.bsp...
creating planar surface planes...
searching visible brush sides...
     0 brush sides308 brush sides textured out of 1792
-------- Brush CSG ---------
  1568 original brushes
two tiny brushes
  1080 output brushes
-------- Brush BSP ---------
  1080 brushes
  4551 visible faces
     0 nonvisible faces
  8341 total sides
Win32 multi-threading
     1 threads max
depth first bsp building
  8211 splits
  2374 KB of peak total bsp memory
BSP tree created in     2 seconds
------- Prune Nodes --------
 4042 pruned nodes
---- Node Portalization ----
  4169 nodes portalized
    60 tiny portals
   796 KB of portal memory
  2390 KB of winding memory
------ FloodEntities -------
------- FillOutside --------
  998 solid leaves
  325 leaves filled
  762 inside leaves
AAS_CreateAreas
   762 areas created
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
   189 face merges
AAS_GravitationalSubdivision
    94 gravitational subdivisions
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
    11 face merges
AAS_MergeAreas
   505 areas merged
AAS_PruneNodes
   800 nodes pruned
   351 areas checked for shared face flipping
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
  1224 face merges
AAS_MergePlaneFaces
    17 plane face merges
AAS_LadderSubdivision
     0 ladder subdivisions
AAS_MeltAreaFaceWindings
  1007 edges melted
AAS_RemoveTinyFaces
0 tiny faces removed
AAS_CreateAreaSettings
allocated 603 KB and 684 bytes of AAS memory
AAS_StoreFile
AAS_GetFace: face 1022 had degenerate edge 0-1
   352 areas stored

AAS created in     2 seconds
loading collision map...
CM_LoadMap( test.bsp, 0 )
17 weapon jump areas
calculating reachability...

please wait while storing reachability...
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
calculating clusters...
     0 forced portals
possible portal: 26
possible portal: 174
     1 portals created
     3 clusters created
cluster 1 has 116 reachability areas
cluster 2 has 121 reachability areas
writing test.aas
freed 603 KB and 684 bytes of AAS memory


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 18, 2013, 09:02:31 am
Hi guys! I've done another test to implement that "pushing" water effect I was looking for.
This time I got quite near, but I think I will abort also this try.

THIS IS NOT UDESTRUCTION V9, this is just a TEST. I did place the "slick" parameter to the floor of the aqueduct, and made it "sloping".
I did not include texture files in this package, hence you first need to have UDESTRUCTION beta V8 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47387#msg47387) installed.

Download z_udest_test.pk3, and place it in your baseoa folder, where you previously placed z_udestruction-version08.pk3
Launch Openarena, and type /devmap udest_test. Go to the aqueduct and try moving, staying still etc.

The result is nice enough, but:
1) For having a good effect, it seems I need the aqueduct to be quite sloping. Well, I did various tests, making the "sloping" more high each time.... but I haven't been able to make the thing completely work as expected... at the end I found out that with "accurate physics" it worked instead -see 2)-, but I didn't lower back the sloping then.
2) Also with the quite high degree of sloping I used, if I run towards "up" in the water, then release the button, the character continues moving (very slowly) in the up direction, until I apply some other "force" that somehow changes my direction. It seems this happens with "framerate dependent physics" and "fixed framerate physics"... while instead, with "accurate physics" (pmove_float, please read Game physics (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics) wiki page for more info), a short time after I released the button, the character correctly starts going down. Do your own tests with different kinds of physics, and tell me what do you think (I can imagine this could be another bug caused by the Q3 physics rounding error). Maybe one might do tests with more different degrees of sloping.
3) While running towards "down", I still run at 266 ups only, except the last meters, where my speed suddently starts increasing a lot, for unknown reason. UPDATE: I've understood the reason of this: I had not perfectly aligned the water with the ground at the end of the slope. It looks like that if there is an empty space between the water and the "slick" ground, I can get higher running speeds (I can guess in that case the "slick" surface is considered and the water not). Correctly aligning the water with the slick ground makes me move at 266 ups (unless I jump, of course). Placing a such empty space all over the sloping aqueduct, I can get to 800 ups without jumping at all (very high speeds even without touching a key).
4) There is a graphic glitch with the water animation at the top of the "hill"...

I just wanted you to try this and hear your opinions (GrosBedo for example), however I think I will discard this (e.g. I don't want to tie my map to a specific kind of physics, although the pmove_float would simply add some more "realism" to the aqueduct physics, in a game where realism isn't the first need).


Note: IN FUTURE, YOU MAY NEED TO DELETE THIS PK3 TO BE SURE TO AVOID SHADER PROBLEMS
WITH FUTURE UDESTRUCTION VERSIONS. However, I think this should not be necessary, as I used an apposite shader name and shader file for the slick floor.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 18, 2013, 09:27:02 am
Have you tried with the newer BSPC from the sticky-d thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2795.0) and the bot guide in the Wiki (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Bot_play) (especially Cardigan's tutorial at the end of the page)?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 22, 2013, 03:00:11 pm
I've updated OAJGCTF3 map once more (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1alpha3.pk3/download) (I did not care to rename the file, so it's still alpha3). Adding back botclip walls did wonders - bots are acting now as they should, running and shooting around. Also I've fixed issues Gig reported - I've added ramps, so you can jump to the side passage, but they possibly making level uglier.

I've checked UDestruction v8, it's good, and my only complaint is that one of flags/domination points is still inside that building, it's hard to find, hard to reach, and hard to defend, because bots jump from under the floor all of sudden and blast me with rocket, but when I'm running to that flag, there's always that jumppad on the way, so I'm jumping to the roof instead of reaching flag.

Have you tried with the newer BSPC from the sticky-d thread (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2795.0) and the bot guide in the Wiki (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Bot_play) (especially Cardigan's tutorial at the end of the page)?
I've compiled my own BSPC, taken from https://github.com/bnoordhuis/bspc , but it failed to compile .bsp file, which BSPC from GTKRadiant compiled fine. So I've ended up using BSPC from 32-bit Linux build of GTKRadiant, taken here: http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/
Quote
The Q3 source code is available from any number of locations you can find with your favorite search engine
Yeah, sure, and most of these locations point to defunct sites with expired hosting.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 23, 2013, 02:27:15 am
Quote
The Q3 source code is available from any number of locations you can find with your favorite search engine
Yeah, sure, and most of these locations point to defunct sites with expired hosting.

Here you can find the Q3A 1.32b source code:
http://www.desura.com/engines/id-tech-3/downloads/quake-iii-arena-source-code

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 23, 2013, 04:42:14 am
I've updated OAJGCTF3 map once more (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1alpha3.pk3/download)
I suppose you meant OAJGCTF1 alpha 3.  ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 23, 2013, 06:46:16 am
Well, I suppose we need some RCs so we can show how the work is going, and polish it further.

I have a netbook now (a BenQ Joybook Lite U105). It isn't a gaming 'book by any means, but at least I have "something" to work and it serves for optimization purposes, I guess, isn't it?

I'll be packing the first RC and releasing it next Saturday if you agree.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: G One on June 23, 2013, 07:01:16 am
It depends on the actual state of the maps, if for the developers there aren't critical bugs i agree with the release of a first RC next saturday.
The most important thing is to release a perfect final release bug-free.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 23, 2013, 07:09:07 am
It depends on the actual state of the maps, if for the developers there aren't critical bugs i agree with the release of a first RC next saturday.
The most important thing is to release a perfect final release bug-free.

I agree with this, all the maps will be released in GPLv2 with sources, any user can modify any map in future. We have to release all the maps as perfect as we can, without BIG bugs.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 25, 2013, 01:55:45 am
Uhm... I would name it "BETA3" instead of "RC". Hopefully it may act also as RC, too... but I would not bet on that.

- I'm working on UDESTRUCTION V9, but I don't know if I will be able to finish it for Friday (I already know that I will not be able to work on it on Saturday)
- Any news from Moixie? I can rember that his DM map had a problem with the timing of the central jump-pad+its horizontal "door" (when playing on-line, the thing often did not work as expected, with very bad effects). I don't remember if he already released a fixed version of it or not. Maybe he also had to do some tests with placing some item_botroam to make the bots use the jump-pads and the upper floor some more.
- About Moixie's CTF map, maybe he still had to add support for some other gametype, and/or place spawn points more distant from the flags? It's some time I don't try it, I don't remember...
- Jan said he will be able to work on his maps only after July 5th. It seems to me to remember that his oajgdm3alpha5 had some glitch (see linked post) (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919), and that there is that other DM map (oajgdm2 maybe?) that still has some teleporters that look like plain walls. I don't remember exactly, but maybe also a couple of teleporters in oajgdm1 had the same problem (next to the "teleporter corridors", there are other teleporters, almost unnoticeable, IIRC).

PS: I haven't tried Pelya's second version of "OAJGCTF1 alpha 3" yet. I will do it ASAP.
UPDATE: I just tested it. Bots work much better now, and other bugs have been fixed. I played it in various gametypes, and it seems funny. :) Very well. But unfortunately, even the "now-enlarged platforms" (that allow players to reach the lateral tunnel simply jumping) are not used properly by bots: I ordered my team-mate bots to follow me, but they were unable to perform that jump, and simply fell off the platform.  :-[
And I still see that thin "flickering" effect where two bevels touch, in that area (tested caulk there?).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 25, 2013, 03:32:18 am
- Any news from Moixie? I can rember that his DM map had a problem with the timing of the central jump-pad+its horizontal "door" (when playing on-line, the thing often did not work as expected, with very bad effects). I don't remember if he already released a fixed version of it or not. Maybe he also had to do some tests with placing some item_botroam to make the bots use the jump-pads and the upper floor some more.
I was constantly falling to the void in mx1dm5 even in local games, this jumppads combo constantly fails. I would rather remove it altogether, or have an oldskool teleporter.

- Jan said he will be able to work on his maps only after July 5th. It seems to me to remember that his oajgdm3alpha5 had some glitch (see linked post) (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919), and that there is that other DM map (oajgdm2 maybe?) that still has some teleporters that look like plain walls. I don't remember exactly, but maybe also a couple of teleporters in oajgdm1 had the same problem (next to the "teleporter corridors", there are other teleporters, almost unnoticeable, IIRC).
The problems are in oajgdm2: (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0006tga_zps695cc070.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0006tga_zps695cc070.png.html) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0007tga_zpsc67f031f.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0007tga_zpsc67f031f.png.html)
In oajgdm1 everything is okay: (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0003tga_zpsf3546ac9.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0003tga_zpsf3546ac9.png.html) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0005tga_zps81d7bf6d.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0005tga_zps81d7bf6d.png.html) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0004tga_zps420cda94.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0004tga_zps420cda94.png.html)

PS: I haven't tried Pelya's second version of "OAJGCTF1 alpha 3" yet. I will do it ASAP.
UPDATE: I just tested it. Bots work much better now, and other bugs have been fixed. I played it in various gametypes, and it seems funny. :) Very well. But unfortunately, even the "now-enlarged platforms" (that allow players to reach the lateral tunnel simply jumping) are not used properly by bots: I ordered my team-mate bots to follow me, but they were unable to perform that jump, and simply fell off the platform.  :-[
And I still see that thin "flickering" effect where two bevels touch, in that area (tested caulk there?).

Tell me how to do that. Botroam items? More clusterportals? Botclip bridge between the ramps?

BTW it would be nice to do a CTF version of oajgdm3, the map is big enough.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 25, 2013, 04:13:13 am
I was constantly falling to the void in mx1dm5 even in local games, this jumppads combo constantly fails. I would rather remove it altogether, or have an oldskool teleporter.
I would make a try with better timing/push. Then, if that would not work, one might opt for a different mechanism, as you suggested. However, I think Moixie should tell.

Quote
The problems are in oajgdm2:
In oajgdm1 everything is okay:
Right. Although also the one in dm1 may use a different background, it's not so important.

Quote
Tell me how to do that. Botroam items? More clusterportals? Botclip bridge between the ramps?
If a bot does not follow you if you order to do so, I think a botroam isn't enough to fix it (item_botroam is useful to have bots going to certain places by their own). A botclip bridge would not be nice, bots would look like floating in the air.
I suppose that one might place a proper bridge to link the platforms to the lateral tunnel (not so nice looking maybe?), or place a jump-pad on the lower floor from the tunnel, or place an accelerator pad from the platforms to the tunnel (for this last one, maybe it could became too difficult to chase someone that took you flag and escaped that way?).. or maybe placing the accelerator pad somewhere else around the floor of the base? Maybe a classic vertical jump-pad may be the simpler solution...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 25, 2013, 11:28:28 am
Actually, I think I know where the problem is - the end part of these platforms is round, and all round/curved objects are considered "detail" by map compiler, so they are disregarded when calculating .AAS file (correct me if I'm wrong), so bots think that platform is shorter, and cannot jump.
That should also be the reason why bots cannot use jumppad - the floor where they are jumping is a part of a curved brush, but they aim only for solid geometry, which is far away from jumppad.
I'll try to put botclip rectangles beneath all curved floors - they won't hang mid-air this way.
And I don't want more jumppads or bridges - we should fix bots, not the map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 25, 2013, 12:36:42 pm
I don't know. Jan's maps have a lot of curved platforms, and bots seem to correctly walk over them. Do you think the problem is only to "jump" on such curved brushes?
I don't know.
Make a try with botclip or playerclip to slightly enlarge the classic brush part... or maybe try to make it nearer to the destination by a few more units (e.g. by laterally enlarge the "u" shaped platform a little).

With "bots cannot use jumppads" do you mean that they only use the ramp to get on the U shaped platform?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 28, 2013, 09:04:18 am
Neon_Knight, could you please wait some other days before packaging OACMP1 beta 3?

I've been working hard on my map in these days (mostly textures/shaders polishing, but not only), but I have not been able to complete beta9 in time for today, and I will not be able to work on it for two or three days.

More, I'd like to see if Pelya succedes in fixing bot behavior in that specific part of Jan's map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 28, 2013, 09:34:57 am
OK, I can wait...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 28, 2013, 10:38:11 am
Thank you.  :)

A question: do you know a way to align textures on curved brushes? Texture management on curves does not work very well on Q3Radiant... so I tried with NetRadiant, but it seems it's the more or less the same mess.
I changed the texture on the curved walls that surround my map, but in some junctures they don't fit well (although the same texture is used, and I changed it selecting all those curved brushes at the same time). Even manual tweaking "texture offset" on such curve brushes seem to do not work very well (e.g. I change the value, but the image doesn't get updated). Suggestions?

By the way (and this may be interesting also for Akom), maybe I finally learned how to "copy and align" a texture from brush A to brush B in NetRadiant (it's not as immediate as in Q3Radiant): it is in two passages... first I have to click with central button on the source brush (in 3d view window), then CTRL+SHIFT+central button on the destination brush. Maybe I don't even need to have the destination brush actually selected (red).
This works as expected on standard brushes, however does not fix the problem aligning textures on curved brushes.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 28, 2013, 12:02:18 pm
Thank you.  :)

A question: do you know a way to align textures on curved brushes? Texture management on curves does not work very well on Q3Radiant... so I tried with NetRadiant, but it seems it's the more or less the same mess.
I changed the texture on the curved walls that surround my map, but in some junctures they don't fit well (although the same texture is used, and I changed it selecting all those curved brushes at the same time). Even manual tweaking "texture offset" on such curve brushes seem to do not work very well (e.g. I change the value, but the image doesn't get updated). Suggestions?

Hello :)

Tell me what's the problem, you mean that the CTRL+SHIFT+N doesn't work ?
If you want to align a texture from a curved brush with a texture on a normal brush, you will never be able to align those textures. You have to put some kind of tricky brush in the middle.

Can you insert a screenshot ? By the way i think that those curves are ugly if you leave all at the same high size. You can improve the visual impact making them like some kind of hills.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on June 28, 2013, 12:03:34 pm
Final version of OAJGCTF1 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1.pk3/download) (or at least I hope it's final). Bots now jump from the ramp to side tunnel (maybe in several attempts, but they really do), and they use all jumppads properly. I don't know about a seam between bevels - I did not really notice it. I've made brushes behind it into caulk, and resized textures on bevels, maybe that will fix it.
I'll take a break from map editing, because it was too traumatizing experience :'(


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on June 28, 2013, 01:11:59 pm
Hello :)

Tell me what's the problem, you mean that the CTRL+SHIFT+N doesn't work ?
If you want to align a texture from a curved brush with a texture on a normal brush, you will never be able to align those textures. You have to put some kind of tricky brush in the middle.
I'd like to align the texture of a curved brush with the other curved brushes that touch it.
Quote
By the way i think that those curves are ugly if you leave all at the same high size. You can improve the visual impact making them like some kind of hills.
How could I make also their upper side curved or sloping? :-\ If I just make each one of them of different size, there would be noticeable "steps"...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on June 28, 2013, 01:17:48 pm
Final version of OAJGCTF1 (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1.pk3/download) (or at least I hope it's final). Bots now jump from the ramp to side tunnel (maybe in several attempts, but they really do), and they use all jumppads properly. I don't know about a seam between bevels - I did not really notice it. I've made brushes behind it into caulk, and resized textures on bevels, maybe that will fix it.
I'll take a break from map editing, because it was too traumatizing experience :'(

Great and big job.
Now i'm sad thinking to my PM i've sent to you :P :P :P

@Gig: Of course you have to make some kind of "steps", like mountains  :P ;D
IF the curved brush A is not of the same size of curved brush B, you can not align them, sorry.
Any screenshot (little) will be apreciated :)

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on June 28, 2013, 04:07:01 pm
Once Gig posts his last version, we're releasing RC1.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on June 29, 2013, 11:54:36 am
- Any news from Moixie? I can rember that his DM map had a problem with the timing of the central jump-pad+its horizontal "door" (when playing on-line, the thing often did not work as expected, with very bad effects). I don't remember if he already released a fixed version of it or not. Maybe he also had to do some tests with placing some item_botroam to make the bots use the jump-pads and the upper floor some more.
I was constantly falling to the void in mx1dm5 even in local games, this jumppads combo constantly fails. I would rather remove it altogether, or have an oldskool teleporter.

- Jan said he will be able to work on his maps only after July 5th. It seems to me to remember that his oajgdm3alpha5 had some glitch (see linked post) (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919), and that there is that other DM map (oajgdm2 maybe?) that still has some teleporters that look like plain walls. I don't remember exactly, but maybe also a couple of teleporters in oajgdm1 had the same problem (next to the "teleporter corridors", there are other teleporters, almost unnoticeable, IIRC).
The problems are in oajgdm2: (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0006tga_zps695cc070.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0006tga_zps695cc070.png.html) (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh163/_pelya/OpenArena/th_shot0007tga_zpsc67f031f.png) (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/_pelya/media/OpenArena/shot0007tga_zpsc67f031f.png.html)
If thats the main problem then your in luck, though they look like your normal wall; they are actually made up out of telemarble, a shader used only for the teleporters; so you could just edit the shader files.

Something else, how do you guys get such low reachability-area's? (which is a good thing for performance) what switches do you use one BSPC?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 01, 2013, 02:15:57 am
Something else, how do you guys get such low reachability-area's? (which is a good thing for performance) what switches do you use one BSPC?

Uh? Are you referring to this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47433#msg47433)?
I simply used bspc -bsp2ass mapname.bsp (I optimize file size in a later passage with bspc -aasopt mapname.aas, although maybe this may be done in a single process). I don't know the switches used by Pelya.


I quickly tested Pelya's new version of the map. Okay, now the bots are able to do that jump. Good job, Pelya!  ;) How did you fix that, then?
For the rest:
- unfortunately I can still see the small glitch where two bevels touch there (see screenshot). However it's not so important.
- in that blue wall (see screenshot) there is a part of the decorative azure line that uses a different tone on blue. This one should be fixed.
- The "gametype" key for the megahealth only has got these values: "ctf, ctfelimination, dd". Is that intentional that it does not apply to modes such as FFA, TDM, Obelisk?
-- By the way, I can guess there is no reason to specify "ctfelimination" value for an health bonus, considering that in ctfelimination mode, all health bonuses are automatically removed from the game (just like elimination and lms modes).

Note: in the PC I'm writing from, I have a problem with the sky of this map... however on another machine it works correctly, so I can guess I have some PK3 that interferes (maybe an old version of some other jan's map).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 01, 2013, 05:48:13 am
That's why I insist with trying the maps on a clean installation of OA. If there's another non-official PK3 interfering then it causes us unnecessary headaches.


Title: More small issues + idea
Post by: Gig on July 01, 2013, 07:03:24 am
Don't worry... I tried the map also on the other machine, with a cleaner OA. The sky works correctly there.
Simply, I was working on this one when I took the screenshot, so I mentioned you the sky thing.

Other notices are valid also on that other machine (well, the flickering bevels effect seems to be less visible on the Radeon HD than on the integrated intel graphics... by the way, maybe that's just a small id tech3 bug that we cannot do anything against).

More on analyzing that package:

"Oajgctf1.arena" file has got this "type" key.
Quote
"ctf oneflag harvester overload elimination ctfelimination dom dd harvester"
I can see that "harvester" is repeated two times, and "obelisk" is missing.

And I noticed that there is written "ctfelimination", while the table here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Gametype-specific_configuration) mentioned "ctfelim" instead for the .arena file. Considering that oajgctf1 is shown in the GUI when in the list of CTF Elimination, I can guess that "ctfelimination" is the correct value and that "ctfelim" on the wiki is an error... however, I'd prefer if someone may confirm.

I must go now and I will not be able look deeper into this before tomorrow... if you could, that would be nice.
I suppose the .arena files of all oacmp maps should be checked.

My Udestruction.arena, up to beta V8, lacks "obelisk" and "harverster" values... That will be fixed in version 9... but now I have to undestrand if I have to specify "ctfelim" or "ctfelimination".

IDEA:
A nice thing someone may do, if he has got some time, could be to provide a set of pre-configured configuration files, with pre-configured map rotation scripts (e.g. oacmp01-ffa.cfg, oacmp01-tdm.cfg, oacmp01-ctf.cfg... oacmp01-mix.cfg), that people may use just using "exec" command. Each one of those scripts would rotate all OACMP01 maps that support a certain gametype, adapting capturelimit according to map size and gametype (most notably, Domination mode requires much higher capturelimits than any other mode).
What do you think about that? Volunteers?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 01, 2013, 07:11:00 am
That's easy. I'll do it, once the pack is finished. And because I haven't contributed anything in the end.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 01, 2013, 01:06:27 pm
I quickly tested Pelya's new version of the map. Okay, now the bots are able to do that jump. Good job, Pelya!  ;) How did you fix that, then?
Just open the .map file - there are ugly disgusting botclip boxes everywhere :( so my theory was correct - BSPC DOES NOT consider curved surfaces a solid area, and does not mark them as reachable to bots.
I'll try to fix other issues this weekend, if I'll have free time.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 02, 2013, 03:15:28 am
Neon_Knight, could you please tell me about that .arena value for "ctf elimination" mode? Thank you!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 02, 2013, 06:05:03 am
Checked in arenas.txt, it's ctfelimination.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 02, 2013, 09:14:29 am
Interesting news, I found out that there is a way to have bots actually use grappling hook.
Two things are required:
1) That the BSPC command (AAS creation) is run with the "-grapplereach" option (reachability calculation takes a bit longer time)
(example for my map: bspc -grapplereach -optimize -bsp2aas udestruction.bsp)
2) That the server has got "bot_grapple" variable set to 1. Unfortunately, that is set to 0 by default and returns to 0 each time you close the game and start it again (works this way since Q3A). However, one may include "set bot_grapple 1" in his autoexec.cfg file, or include that command in a map rotation script.

However, it works! Well, they will not use it to get attached to high walls/ceiling like humans would do, but they may use it as shortcut to reach some higher floors.

Akom, do you want to recompile oa_akomctf1 AAS file with that option active, and take a look to the results?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 02, 2013, 09:54:24 am
There's no need to recompile the map in it's entirety, just run BSPC adding the -grapplereach option to the command line.


Title: Re: More small issues + idea
Post by: sago007 on July 02, 2013, 10:01:15 am
And I noticed that there is written "ctfelimination", while the table here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Gametype-specific_configuration) mentioned "ctfelim" instead for the .arena file.
"ctfelim" is correct but ctfelimination works too because ctfelim is a substring in it. In the beginning I did not realize that the game simply looked for a substring not a whole token. If a map has only ctfelimination it will appear in both ctf, elimination and ctfelimination, because they are all substrings. The ctfelimination implied ctf I could just accept but I shortened it, so that you did not need to enable elimination to have it appear in ctf elimination.

Earlier versions required "ctfelimination".


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 02, 2013, 10:43:25 am
Are you sure? Up to beta version 8 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47387#msg47387), my map has got this "type" key in the .arena file.
Quote
"ffa team elimination lms dd dom oneflag ctf ctfelim"
But it does NOT show up in my list of maps available for CTF Elimination mode... I checked with 0.8.5 and 0.8.8. Does it work for you?  :-\
Are you sure this "substring" thing you are saying refers to .arena files and not to entities' gametype key, right?

Sago, another thing I really wanted to ask you: in my .arena file I used the "bots" key to specify some bots to be proposed in the GUI for Skirmish/Multiplayer. In some modes (such as FFA and LMS), they are exacly those I specified in the .arena file, but in other modes (e.g. Elimination, Capture the flag) they are different. Is there a different key to be used for other modes (e.g. there is a specific key for team-based modes)? Is there some bug in gamecode? Is this intentional?
Is there an arenas.txt/.arena guide somewhere?

There's no need to recompile the map in it's entirety, just run BSPC adding the -grapplereach option to the command line.
Ehm... which part of "recompile oa_akomctf1 AAS file" was not clear?  ::)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 05, 2013, 01:00:47 am
Bad news about the offhand grapple (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Weapons#Offhand_grapple). Being a "cut off" q3 feature, it seems that id software left in some bugs in bots a.i. (this explains why bot_grapple variable is disabled by default).
Making some tests, I noticed that if the bot has not collected the grapple yet, but it needs to go to a place that it would reach with the grapple if it had one... it starts pointlessly firing with normal weapons (standing still) aiming to the wall where it would have fired the grapple if it had it. This means that currently, it is not advisable to enable bot_grapple variable, except for tests (e.g. one might use it with elimination_grapple option).

However, I suppose we may compile aas files with the grapplereach option anyway... so the maps may already be compatible if sometime in the future someone (Graion Dilach maybe?) would fix gamecode to resolve those little but important bots A.I. bugs. What do you think?
I don't know if the cause of the bug is in gamecode, or in BSPC, or both... but I can guess it should be possible to fix it with gamecode updates.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 06, 2013, 04:04:06 am
Bad news about the offhand grapple (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Weapons#Offhand_grapple). Being a "cut off" q3 feature, it seems that id software left in some bugs in bots a.i. (this explains why bot_grapple variable is disabled by default).
Making some tests, I noticed that if the bot has not collected the grapple yet, but it needs to go to a place that it would reach with the grapple if it had one... it starts pointlessly firing with normal weapons (standing still) aiming to the wall where it would have fired the grapple if it had it. This means that currently, it is not advisable to enable bot_grapple variable, except for tests (e.g. one might use it with elimination_grapple option).

However, I suppose we may compile aas files with the grapplereach option anyway... so the maps may already be compatible if sometime in the future someone (Graion Dilach maybe?) would fix gamecode to resolve those little but important bots A.I. bugs. What do you think?
I don't know if the cause of the bug is in gamecode, or in BSPC, or both... but I can guess it should be possible to fix it with gamecode updates.

Interresting! Bots use fuzzy logic, this could be anywhere from a simple check to see if we actually can grapple to tweaking the 'desire' to use grapple. It should be in gamecode IMHO.

Quick fix for the map though: couldn't you make everyone spawn with a grapple?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 06, 2013, 06:45:58 am
Quick fix for the map though: couldn't you make everyone spawn with a grapple?

Yes, it's possible from the editor.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 06, 2013, 01:30:43 pm
Quick fix for the map though: couldn't you make everyone spawn with a grapple?
I thought about it, but I fear that having all players always with the grapple may change the gameplay too much... I don't know.

What do you think?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 06, 2013, 01:39:06 pm
Quick fix for the map though: couldn't you make everyone spawn with a grapple?
I thought about it, but I fear that having all players always with the grapple may change the gameplay too much... I don't know.

What do you think?

Maybe it's possible to try it before. :P

Quote from: Gig
Akom, do you want to recompile oa_akomctf1 AAS file with that option active, and take a look to the results?

At theese days i have some time but i think that bots don't need to play with grapple to seems humans. In the online play it's different.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 06, 2013, 05:21:51 pm
Quick fix for the map though: couldn't you make everyone spawn with a grapple?
I thought about it, but I fear that having all players always with the grapple may change the gameplay too much... I don't know.

What do you think?

Maybe it's possible to try it before. :P

If thats not the gameplay you meant, then it could indeed be weird...did you want the grapple to be very exclusive?
It could be that the original issue can be fixed..if not than bots cannot grapple i guess?



New test version of oajgdm2:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta3.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta3.pk3)

Features:
- New teleporters
- Slightly changed layout

Note:
Indeed the beta of the mappack interferes with the shader file in this one, please rename the mappack to something oa wont pick up. Or use a clean directory.

Screens:
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0004.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0005.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0009.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0010.jpg)
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0011.jpg)

Left on the todo's:
- Support for more gamemodes (notably domination, and possibly ctf (i liked that suggestion) and double domination)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 07, 2013, 07:14:07 am
Uploaded latest versions to the server and updated links on the Wiki article (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/OpenArena_Community_Mappack).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 07, 2013, 12:38:07 pm
I've fixed minor bugs in OAJGCTF1 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47574#msg47574), download it here (http://sourceforge.net/projects/libsdl-android/files/OpenArena/OACMP/z_zoajgctf1.pk3/download).
Gametype names can be looked up here in OAX sources (http://code.google.com/p/oax/source/browse/trunk/code/q3_ui/ui_startserver.c#164) - there's no "obelisk", it's called "overload".


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 07, 2013, 05:19:27 pm
Uploaded to the server, also renamed the file to z_oajgctf1-130707.pk3, for convenience.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 07, 2013, 08:55:15 pm
I've been playing a bit some of the maps. Tomorrow I'll play the rest.

- oa_akomdm1 and oa_akomdm3 are practically flawless. The latter has some bits of inspiration from q3dm6 part, amirite? :P
- oa_akomdm2 is flawless as well, though a cosmetic change wouldn't be bad: in the upper level, the central pit to the MH could be marked in some way.
- oa_akomdm4 is pretty cool. Yet, there's something... the Battle Suit doesn't work with the void, and there's not much reason to place it, aside of the splash damage of some weapons. What about another powerup? I'm thinking on the Invulnerability, it could be a good powerup in this map.
- oa_akomdm5 has an inconvenient with the framerate. Namely, those yellow lights. Patches with light do a lot of stress in the engine, with the consecquent lose of FPS. This is something we've learnt from trying to improve oasago2 and ps9ctf. Those lights must be changed to something which doesn't require patches, but plain ol' brushes.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 07, 2013, 09:31:06 pm
More feedback, with the remaining FFA maps:

- oajgdm1 - Pretty cool theme. Haven't found anything bad with it.
- oajgdm2 - Avoid using flared light shaders in patches (causes FPS slowdown), and try to disperse the ammo. The idea of ammo far from their weapons is that it makes the player travel more the map. There are some exceptions, all of them depend on the weapon. But the idea is that the player must travel the map to get what he wants.
- oajgdm3 - Same as above: avoid using flared light shaders in patches, they slow down the FPS.
- udestruction - Whoa! It's... big... It reminds me of a map from Doom 2, isn't it? For your ¿first? attempt at mapping, Gig, I must say, in complete seriousness, that udestruction it's extremely impressive. Even I can't reach some of the stuff you did. Congratulations! (Though I'm still searching for the BFG...) A suggestion I can make is to create more places (poles, broken walls maybe?) where to exploit the grappling hook. I feel that maps like this are made for that weapon.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 08, 2013, 01:39:40 am
Gametype names can be looked up here in OAX sources (http://code.google.com/p/oax/source/browse/trunk/code/q3_ui/ui_startserver.c#164) - there's no "obelisk", it's called "overload".

You're right. I just tested in-game. Unlike when using in "gametype" key, when using in .arena files, we have to write "overload" and not "obelisk". I just updated the table here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Gametype-specific_configuration).

- udestruction - Whoa! It's... big... It reminds me of a map from Doom 2, isn't it?
Not really, at least, not voluntarily. I don't know which map you are thinking at (could you please link some screenshot or video of it?). And I didn't play Doom2 so much. The only inspirations were (very, very mild...!) ospca1 (meaning a map where rocket jumps would be welcome... I don't play that map since a looong time, but for some reason I think that included something that inspired me for the scaffolding), and mabe a very little of q3dm6 (when the pillars where not connected each other... however it was very different than the bigger and squared pillars of q3dm6 since the beginning, and now it's more different since when I connected the pillars together for better bot behavior).
Quote
For your ¿first? attempt at mapping, Gig, I must say, in complete seriousness, that udestruction it's extremely impressive. Even I can't reach some of the stuff you did. Congratulations! (Though I'm still searching for the BFG...) A suggestion I can make is to create more places (poles, broken walls maybe?) where to exploit the grappling hook. I feel that maps like this are made for that weapon.
Actually, it's my "second" map (if you remember, its first alpha was called "test2")... I have a yet-unreleased "test1" map that I fear I will never complete... it has got some ideas that I like (I placed many ideas in it... e.g. the bridge that connects the two towers in udestruction comes from that map, although there are two twin bridges over a pit there), but it has got too many tech problems (I did not know about some kinds of errors generated by the editor, at the beginning... Now I know that one has to try avoiding using "csg subtract" and "free rotate" fuctions as much as possible... and that when "dragging edges" one has to avoid making two faces becoming one, but at that time, I didn't know). So, that map could be used as an ispiration to create another one from scratch, but I think I will not have time for a such huge work again. I may publish it in the future, so maybe someone of you guys may get inspiration for creating a new map using some interesting ideas from that one.

About udestruction, thank you. Actually, I've spent much, much more time than what I planned on it. Its first beta was on March... (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661)... general layout did not change a lot, but I've done various small changes and improvements (especially with textures) since there.

By the way, as you can see in V8, I've placed that grass under the BFG door button, and I've illuminated that area some more than the rest of that wall (or did I do the illuminating tweak there for V9? I don't remember).... what more should I do to have people find it? Should I place something extremely colorful, like my "stripes" shader? But that could be overkill... I mean, that button is not a gametype objective! It should be something I can disable with the "!gametype" key without causing problems to bots. Should I move it again?

For the grappling hook thing, I have to say that I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT TO DO. The only changes I did with it after V8 (I want to release V9 this week) are to change respawn time from default (30 secs in TDM, 5 secs in all other modes, IIRC) to 15 seconds (do you think it's a bad idea?), and to place a low-weight (15) item_botroam near it (just in case in future some developer may fix bots bugs).
I might try giving it to all players by default, but:
1) Bots still have some problems using it (I've seen them missing an edge by a few centimeters when firing the grapple, but repeating the same exact launch various times without correcting the trajectory). A gamecode update would be necessary to have fully working bots with grapple. Of course, I will compile the .aas with the grapplereach option, for the map to be ready if and when that will happen.
2) In current OA, bot_grapple variable is disabled by default. Of course, we may temporarily enable it in the map rotation script we may include with OACMP01, but how many pepole will actually use those scripts? And more, if one breaks the scripts and then loads another map compiled with -grapplereach option without disabling bot_grapple? In that case, bots would pointlessly shoot with standard weapons where they would shoot with the grapple, if they do not have it. Well, I suppose that currently, very few .aas files have been compiled with the -grapplereach option, but who knows.
2.1) If and when bot behavior in gamecode will be fixed, I think that it would be safer to change the name of the bot_grapple variable, trying to avoid people finding bot grapple support enabled when playing with any old mod or old OA version, where bot_grapple support will remain buggy forever. But then a map rotation script with bot_grapple option would be outdated!
3) Having all players using it would change gameplay a lot. Of course, if all of them have it, that would be fair... but that's something quite different. Do you think that would be better?
4) Having all human players using grapple may be unfair against bots, who do not use it by default?
5) Adding extra platforms/broken walls to invite to use it more is something I have no time to do this week... maybe for a version10, but not for version9. And I have a deadline this Friday, because then I will be in vacation and will not be available at all for 10-15 days.
6) Maybe for the moment, we may just suggest (in map readme/wiki page) to try playing the map in Elimination, CTF Elimination, LMS mode (or any other mode with g_elimination) with elimination_grapple option active?

I really don't know, I'm very confused about this.

Just a curiosity: which stuff you say you can't reach? Optically and technically it is not so advanced, compared to other maps. For various shaders, I scavenged from existing oa shaders, just making few changes and applying them to my own textures or modified oa textures. I have not even understood what you guys mean with "patches"...

Quote
More feedback, with the remaining FFA maps:
You forgot there is also a FFA map from Moixie.  ;)

PS: If you want to do a try, I may sneak in "grapple for everyone" in V9 (as a test: tell me you will give me the ability to release at least a V10 before the official OACMP01 release!). Just tell me exactly what I have to do to achieve this. Do I have to connect a "target_give" to the grappling hook, then connect ALL spawn points to that target_give? I hoped that was something quicker to do/undo.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Moixie on July 08, 2013, 02:34:44 am
I didn't post newer versions since the 21th of February, let's do it !

Mx2Dm5: "Plan 9 From Outer Space"

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4520)

-> Jumpads bug is fixed. (the doors close just when you get over them, no more just when you touch the floor)
-> Bots are now able to take jumps. (they never do but they can, in the worst cases they still can use a rocket jump)
-> Globally, jumpads are easier to be taken. If you just jump on it and do not touch your keyboard anymore, wherever you fall on the push, you shouldn't fall in the void.
-> No more compatibility with CTF/Harvester/Oneflag/Overload. The map wasn't playable for none of this gametypes and the way used pissed me off: there were no more marks on walls, and the map could get laggy. I'd do another version if the compatibility was so important, the actual shape of the map isn't done for it, it should be larger and less curvy.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4518 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4518)

Mx3Ctf8: "Turtles Forever"

(http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4522)

-> New bases ! Much better, the below corridors may not be unuseful anymore.
-> New light ! Looks much better.
-> Compatibility with all gametypes, it should be fun to play it on DoubleDom or Harvester (can't wait).

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4519 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4679.0;attach=4519)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 08, 2013, 04:01:21 am
Wow! How many new maps to test today!

Well, due to time problems, I only did quick tests...
OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics) different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
- Look at the second screenshot attached. That's an accelerator pad (maybe it's the same you see on the bottom left of the first screenshot, too... but I'm not sure), but it does not have a cool animation effect like those on your jump-pads. Do you think you may do something for that?

OAJGCTF1:
- Seems good.

MX2DM5:
- The jumppads that bring you to the jump-pad in the middle of the map work correctly with "accurate physics", but NOT with fixed 125 Hz physics (they push you too much, and so you crash your head on the ceiling, during the second jump). Maybe a teleporter that brings you just above the central jump-pad would workaround the problem...

MX3CTF8:
- Seems good. I tried it in CTF... I still have to try it in more gametypes. Not sure, maybe the regeneration spawns a little too often? I don't know.


PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
If I will make a map for OACMP02 package, I suppose will create a "gig02" folder and shader file then. Who knows if we will be able to re-use OACMP01 textures and shader for OACMP02 maps, without the need to include them again in the new package? I mean, having OACMP01 as a prerequisite for OACMP02 (making the game automatically dowload both) would be technically possible? And if possible, would that be advisable? Do not downloading the same textures two times sounds nice, but downloading entire maps you don't immediately need, just to get a part of their textures which are used also in other maps, not so much?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 08, 2013, 06:29:33 am
Whoa... too much to reply. I'll start writing that I've updated the links on the wiki. Once Gig updates udestruction, beta03 will be released. (In the end, there's too much new material for a RC).

Now, to the replies... in the next post.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 08, 2013, 06:44:27 am
I'm continuing polishing my map. I'm quite satisfied of it... please just wait a couple of days.
I don't know if I have to spend the time linking all spawn points to the target_give entity (to give grapple since spawning to everyone), considering it's just a test. That would also require some time to "undo", to do not left dirty keys behind.
And I don't know if I want this test to go into the OACMP Beta3. Maybe should I release V9 without the "grapple for everyone", and then release a V9bis or V10 with it?

PS: I'd like to know if Jan has also got some news about this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46919#msg46919)...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 08, 2013, 09:17:40 am
Whoa... too much to reply. I'll start writing that I've updated the links on the wiki. Once Gig updates udestruction, beta03 will be released. (In the end, there's too much new material for a RC).

Now, to the replies... in the next post.

LOL, i have to take hand to my maps  :P :P ;D

Question: it's possible to add new maps in the Beta 3 ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 08, 2013, 09:20:02 am
No, new maps will be added to OACMP2 once we finish with this. For OACMP1 we're going to stick with what we have. I know you're impatient, I am too, but I'd want to finish this before focusing resources on OACMP2.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 08, 2013, 09:22:41 am
No, new maps will be added to OACMP2 once we finish with this. For OACMP1 we're going to stick with what we have. I know you're impatient, I am too, but I'd want to finish this before focusing resources on OACMP2.

No problem for me, just asking :P :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 08, 2013, 10:14:58 am
- udestruction - Whoa! It's... big... It reminds me of a map from Doom 2, isn't it?
Not really, at least, not voluntarily. I don't know which map you are thinking at (could you please link some screenshot or video of it?). And I didn't play Doom2 so much. The only inspirations were (very, very mild...!) ospca1 (meaning a map where rocket jumps would be welcome... I don't play that map since a looong time, but for some reason I think that included something that inspired me for the scaffolding), and mabe a very little of q3dm6 (when the pillars where not connected each other... however it was very different than the bigger and squared pillars of q3dm6 since the beginning, and now it's more different since when I connected the pillars together for better bot behavior).

It's this level, Suburbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3v0LNJWXFE
It's been a long time since I've last played D2, but your map remembered me to that map and Downtown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKYMJ3zCcQ

Quote
For your ¿first? attempt at mapping, Gig, I must say, in complete seriousness, that udestruction it's extremely impressive. Even I can't reach some of the stuff you did. Congratulations! (Though I'm still searching for the BFG...) A suggestion I can make is to create more places (poles, broken walls maybe?) where to exploit the grappling hook. I feel that maps like this are made for that weapon.
About udestruction, thank you. Actually, I've spent much, much more time than what I planned on it. Its first beta was on March... (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg46661)... general layout did not change a lot, but I've done various small changes and improvements (especially with textures) since there.
It happens even with carefully planned maps. It's something we mappers have to get used to, and it's part of the dev cycle, I guess.

By the way, as you can see in V8, I've placed that grass under the BFG door button, and I've illuminated that area some more than the rest of that wall (or did I do the illuminating tweak there for V9? I don't remember).... what more should I do to have people find it? Should I place something extremely colorful, like my "stripes" shader? But that could be overkill... I mean, that button is not a gametype objective! It should be something I can disable with the "!gametype" key without causing problems to bots. Should I move it again?
I just took a quick look at your map, I might have to take some more time exploring it, as it's big. My impressions were just first, quick impressions.

For the grappling hook thing, I have to say that I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT TO DO. The only changes I did with it after V8 (I want to release V9 this week) are to change respawn time from default (30 secs in TDM, 5 secs in all other modes, IIRC) to 15 seconds (do you think it's a bad idea?), and to place a low-weight (15) item_botroam near it (just in case in future some developer may fix bots bugs).
Maybe destroyed walls such as those destroyed after a bombardment? Columns, intact or destroyed? Some ceiling? Here are some ideas.

The Grapple discussion should be sent to the Development thread, as it's about the gamecode and sago and Grosbedo might take a look at it.

Just a curiosity: which stuff you say you can't reach? Optically and technically it is not so advanced, compared to other maps. For various shaders, I scavenged from existing oa shaders, just making few changes and applying them to my own textures or modified oa textures. I have not even understood what you guys mean with "patches"...
It's not about technicalities, I'm talking about creativity. My mindset was (is?) pretty limited when it comes to mapping, even after all of this time.

Quote
More feedback, with the remaining FFA maps:
You forgot there is also a FFA map from Moixie.  ;)
You told me that he was going to deliver new versions of his maps, and he did. :P
It would have made no sense to test an older version of a map when the newer version was just ready in hours. Now that he has delivered his maps, I can take a look at them.

PS: If you want to do a try, I may sneak in "grapple for everyone" in V9 (as a test: tell me you will give me the ability to release at least a V10 before the official OACMP01 release!). Just tell me exactly what I have to do to achieve this. Do I have to connect a "target_give" to the grappling hook, then connect ALL spawn points to that target_give? I hoped that was something quicker to do/undo.
V9 will be released with the next beta, and we have voted already for the "when it's done" deadline. About giving the grapple to each spawnpoint, well, I don't consider that necessary, at least not now. By now leave it as a pickup weapon.

OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
If there's a file to be removed from the OACMP2 beta, someone should tell me.

- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics) different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
There was a similar problem in ps37ctf, someone (Peter?) fixed it by lowering 8 units the bridge.

PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
That's a very good practise. One of the problems we have with OA regarding shaders is precisely that.

If I will make a map for OACMP02 package, I suppose will create a "gig02" folder and shader file then. Who knows if we will be able to re-use OACMP01 textures and shader for OACMP02 maps, without the need to include them again in the new package? I mean, having OACMP01 as a prerequisite for OACMP02 (making the game automatically dowload both) would be technically possible? And if possible, would that be advisable? Do not downloading the same textures two times sounds nice, but downloading entire maps you don't immediately need, just to get a part of their textures which are used also in other maps, not so much?
Downloading the same textures just takes several bits, whereas downloading a PK3 takes some megs. The only case where downloading the same textures isn't beneficial is if an entire package with even unused textures is included in the PK3. But if you only use some of the textures, then there's no problem with including only the textures/shaders used.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 08, 2013, 10:41:36 am
I'm in hurry, I can reply only to this now.
PS: About shaders, for my map I decided to create a single shader file "gig01.shader" and to place all my custom textures and shaders (even those -few- shaders that load stock OA textures and apply some different effect to them) to textures/gig01 folder. So I know that all I have to do is just to add "gig01" to my shaderlist.txt and search for all OACMP01 custom textures (from mine) there, without the risk of affecting any current or future OA shader in folders like "gothic_block" or "sfx".
That's a very good practise. One of the problems we have with OA regarding shaders is precisely that.
There is strange thing that I noticed today, I don't know if that's related with this approach or not. This seems to happen with q3radiant only, but not with NetRadiant. It happened that I wanted to use same the texture I used in "comlumn1_shiny"  shader, but without the shader (I did not use the version without shader before)... so I went searching for the tga file itself "column1" in my gig01 folder and I found out that it didn't show up with the other images, although I tried to set the "show all" option... so I manually selected it (typing) from the surface inspector window. Strange, though...
In NetRadiant, instead, I see the two versions of the texture (with and without shader) one next to the other, as expected.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 08, 2013, 03:25:40 pm
I've made a new version, which adds support for ctf oneflag overload harvester ctfelimination dd...i though it might be a bit small for that, but it really isn't.

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4.pk3)

OAJGDM2BETA3:
- Are you sure you included the correct shader files (or the correct bsp) in the package? Although I removed OACMPBeta2 file, I still see the teleporters as plain walls.
I test them in a seperate openarena...a staging environment so to say, and they work there...the teleporters are still dark looking (since that was always the color i wanted) but now they should be shiny and made up out of shrinking squares...
- Look at the first screenshot attached. Are you sure that jump (Going to the pillar to go to the MH) is not too difficult, if you are using game physics (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Game_physics) different than 125 Hz? Maps should be playable also with "90 Hz" and "accurate" physics...
Totally doable!
- Look at the second screenshot attached. That's an accelerator pad (maybe it's the same you see on the bottom left of the first screenshot, too... but I'm not sure), but it does not have a cool animation effect like those on your jump-pads. Do you think you may do something for that?
It somehow went missing in the shader file, its back now!
- oajgdm2 - Avoid using flared light shaders in patches (causes FPS slowdown)
If you mean the effects you see on the walls here:
(http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/shot0011.jpg)
Since they are part of the lightmap, which is calculated at map-compile time, they should not cause any slowdown..if you mean anything else then please elaborate.
, and try to disperse the ammo. The idea of ammo far from their weapons is that it makes the player travel more the map. There are some exceptions, all of them depend on the weapon. But the idea is that the player must travel the map to get what he wants.
Did that, does seem more fun this way; i may have put the ammo next to the guns because it looks cool...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: fromhell on July 08, 2013, 04:26:53 pm
He means the use of the flare command in shaders for lights, particularily if that light is going to be using it for more than one face.


Flares are good for individual lights, but beams, curved lights etc. will create too many flares (http://openarena.ws/shots/oa_pvomit.jpg). The performance drop is caused by the depth read to test the flare.   Flares are nice, but they need an alternate method of testing (occlusion queries? traceline?)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 09, 2013, 12:49:56 am
It's this level, Suburbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3v0LNJWXFE
It's been a long time since I've last played D2, but your map remembered me to that map and Downtown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMKYMJ3zCcQ
I don't know if I've ever seen those levels before. However, I can understand that my map may easily remind them.  :)

Quote
I have not even understood what you guys mean with "patches"...
It's not about technicalities, I'm talking about creativity. My mindset was (is?) pretty limited when it comes to mapping, even after all of this time.
Again, what do you mean with "patches"? Curved polygons (like bevels) or what?

Quote
If there's a file to be removed from the OACMP2 beta, someone should tell me.
I suppose you should repack beta 3 from scratch, instead of modifying beta2 package.

@ Jan:
I loaded jgdm2beta4, but I cannot notice differences against beta3 in shaders. Take a look to the screenshot, I still see teleporter like that, not animated. And I still don't see the effect over that accelerator pad (and I tested the map on two different machines).

I have quickly tested the map in some gametypes (just wandering, without bots):
- One flag CTF: I have not been able to locate the white flag...
- Overload: obelisks show up messed up (it seems you placed their base model with the wrong orientation!).
- Harvester: flag bases/skull generator models look with the wrong orientation.
- Elimination CTF: seems correct
- Double Domination: I haven't been able to locate A and B points (are you sure you included  "dd" in red and blue flags gametype key?)
- Domination: It looks like there are no DOM points.

@ Fromhell: I tried enabling "flares (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Flares)" graphic option while playing in Jan's map, but I don't see "flares" (like those in pvomit map, for example) appearing at all... I don't even know if he used a flares-capable q3map compiler.

@ Moixie: In your CTF map, the OA logo on those decorative flags on the walls (see screenshot) seems a bit "compressed". Is it this way in the image file, or has the texture been stretched?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 09, 2013, 09:30:52 am
@Jan: disregard what Gig says - he is not using clean OA installation, teleporters look perfectly fine for me.



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 09, 2013, 09:50:59 am
Just before reading this post of yours, I've sent a PM to Jan, telling him that shader has got a a conflict with z_oajgctf1.pk3.  :) In theory, that map had no reason to contain a teleporter shader.  :)
I suggested him to re-organize all of his shaders, if he has got some time.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 09, 2013, 10:06:28 am
All maps will get included into OACMP pack anyway, so Neon_Knight will sort out all shaders, hopefully.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 09, 2013, 10:38:15 am
All maps will get included into OACMP pack anyway, so Neon_Knight will sort out all shaders, hopefully.
I don't know what Neon_Knight plans to do with shaders. I'm interested to know this due to the fact I included an "author_note" (as a key for worldspawn, plus in readme file) where I recommend adding "gig01" to shaderlist.txt for editing the map. If a such statement will not be valid (due to the fact the shader file name will be changed by Neon_Knight), I'd like to know that before.  :)

Anyway, although he may easily just put together all .shader files to have only one .shader file for the whole OACMP01 package (or one for each author)... it would be a much bigger work (and that would require recompiling, I can guess) to move all textures and shaders from each author into a folder (I would imagine one folder for author), removing folder names like /textures/common/  from OACMP (of course there is already one "common" in baseoa! I would not mess with that...). I'm also not sure about folder names like /textures/evil8_something considering that they are already existent in OA packages.
I suppose making order into his own shaders would be a work for each mapper. About this, Moixie can take advantage from the fact his maps seem to use stock OA textures/shaders only.  :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 09, 2013, 10:38:54 am
although oajgctf1 does not include the teleporters, it does contain the same bouncepads so thats why it may use the same shader file...

I dont know if any of you are comfortable with this, but perhaps we could use GIT (or SVN...), for the second map pack? We need to make some rules obviously (like if bspc's should be in there or not); but having version control has a lot of added benefits...(such as a history, easier collaboration, consistent snapshots).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 09, 2013, 11:10:16 am
Git would be awesome! Now, how many of you have Github or SF.net accounts? Or maybe Google Code? I recommend Github, because it got faster web interface than SF.net, but SF.net allows you to login with your Google account (and so Google Code does). We should also consult Sago And GrosBedo about this topic ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 09, 2013, 11:57:30 am
I have a github, bitbucket and google acount...I'd prefer github aswell.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 09, 2013, 01:20:07 pm
@ Jan:
I loaded jgdm2beta4, but I cannot notice differences against beta3 in shaders. Take a look to the screenshot, I still see teleporter like that, not animated. And I still don't see the effect over that accelerator pad (and I tested the map on two different machines).

I have quickly tested the map in some gametypes (just wandering, without bots):
- One flag CTF: I have not been able to locate the white flag...
- Overload: obelisks show up messed up (it seems you placed their base model with the wrong orientation!).
- Harvester: flag bases/skull generator models look with the wrong orientation.
- Elimination CTF: seems correct
- Double Domination: I haven't been able to locate A and B points (are you sure you included  "dd" in red and blue flags gametype key?)
- Domination: It looks like there are no DOM points.

Domination is still not supported...double domination is, should i support both?

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4r1.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4r1.pk3)

Same as before, old version has to go, this one is named differently just to make it identifiable.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 09, 2013, 01:34:38 pm
Hmmm... guys, we're getting out of hand with gametype support. There's no real need to support every gametype in every map even if the map itself isn't really designed to support that gametype.

One thing is to give 1FCTF, Harv, Elim, etc. support to a CTF map (because there're practically no differences in mapping for those gametypes) and another is to modify the map to support a gametype the map isn't really compatible with.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 09, 2013, 02:31:16 pm
Hmmm... guys, we're getting out of hand with gametype support. There's no real need to support every gametype in every map even if the map itself isn't really designed to support that gametype.

One thing is to give 1FCTF, Harv, Elim, etc. support to a CTF map (because there're practically no differences in mapping for those gametypes) and another is to modify the map to support a gametype the map isn't really compatible with.
LOL!

Somebody suggested CTF for this map; i thought it would be fun (i think assymmetrical ctf can be a lot fun, its just that the game should make the teams switch bases after each (or every 3rd or 5th) capture....to make it perfectly fair again), and actually it is fun, mainly because of the weird layout. Having CTF, as you pointed out, mean oneflag, havester, overload, ctfelimination and double domination come for free...i may have gone too far, but please try before you reject.

Removing support should be easy enough, if the need arises.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: zeroth on July 09, 2013, 03:35:18 pm
I've been trying to put the maps through their paces. So far, no major technical snafus. I will not submit opinion about realistic playability as there is no way for me to judge this with bots. (And I do not have access to a private server to test multi-player with others.) Bots do play fairly well on udestruction. They even find the BFG!

Full disclosure: I am running a fairly old machine. AMD Sempron 2.0GHz, 2GB DDR 400 MHz RAM, 100 GB ATA HDD, nVidia G210 1GB, 24" LCD TV thru HDMI (@1920x1080), OS=Fedora19, OA 0.8.8 (mostly vanilla: no mods, but have added new maps to ~/.openarena/baseoa).

You all have done an excellent job! (I especially like udestruction and oa_akomdm1) One of the things that keeps people playing is new content. Why was DOOM so long-lived? The 50,000+ user-created levels. A more current example is that I used to play UT2K4 on the sHoKaZuLu server. If I remember correctly, they only had like one or two original maps; all the others were user-created. Dedicated players have an advantage when creating maps, as they understand the "real-time" aspects of terrain, weapon and ammo placement, power-up availability, etc.

Keep up the great work. Hope to see these maps on some servers sometime soon!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 10, 2013, 12:53:23 am
Quickly tested Jan's new version. Nice, but:
- Blue obelisk, red obelisk and neutral obelisk entities now look correctly oriented (vertically instead of horizontally), but not yet correctly aligned with the ground (in harvester mode, you can see skull generator floating in the air now). Their "origin point" has to be perfectly aligned with the ground (it doesn't matter how the 3D model looks in the editor... just think about perfectly aligning its origin point).
This is extremely important for Overload mode... at the moment, the map causes wrong bots behavior in that mode. See also http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Overload
- At least two teleporters (how many are there in total in the map?) cause you to re-appear in a place where you will very likely immediately fall off the platform, unless you already press the right movement key to compensate. This is strange, I think you should correct this. I noticed this while I was playing with fixed 125Hz physics, I don't know if this makes some difference.

About Neon_Knight note about gametypes... it's true that we don't have necessarily to add support for all gametypes to all maps... however at least DOM and DD modes can easily work with maps of any shape (for DD mode, just remembering the golden rule to do not make players spawn right next to DD points).

@zeroth: there is a public OACMP_b2 server (thanks Pelya) to test the map online. The maps it actually has are newer than those in the original Beta2 package, however probably the most recent versions of some of them (we had various updates this week) are not there yet.
PS: In my map, I've spent some time spectating bot behavior in general (e.g. when they were alone in the arena) and looking at what they did when I ordered them to follow me around the map. I've appositely changed some details during time trying to help them to better navigate the map. Unfortunately, sometimes their behavior changes without apparent reason.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 10, 2013, 06:46:01 am
Hi guys! I've written the "readme" file for my map.
Now I need a new leveshot and to re-package it, but I have to go now...
Tomorrow I will release V9.

A question about levelshots: will Neon_Knight capture all of them again for the final release, to have them be "coherent" (with same settings)?
Or should we decide commons settings, and each one will take his own levelshots?
Note: for resolution/file size balancement, I suppose one might take levelshot at high resolution and then use a third-party software to tweak jpeg compression.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 10, 2013, 11:10:20 am
My server is not private - it's listed among other public servers and currently active (http://dpmaster.deathmask.net/?game=openarena&server=78.27.177.68:93). I'll update it when Neon_Knight releases Beta3 package, because I'm too lazy to handle individual maps (also they have shader conflicts).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 10, 2013, 03:20:44 pm
A question about levelshots: will Neon_Knight capture all of them again for the final release, to have them be "coherent" (with same settings)?
Or should we decide commons settings, and each one will take his own levelshots?
Note: for resolution/file size balancement, I suppose one might take levelshot at high resolution and then use a third-party software to tweak jpeg compression.

I'd like to volunteer for making levelshots...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: fromhell on July 10, 2013, 05:00:59 pm
There's also the built-in levelshot command that produces them from intermission points and throws them into your user folder


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 10, 2013, 06:32:15 pm
That on maps which have such intermission points, if there's no such point, then it takes a levelshot from any spawnpoint (be it info_player_start or info_player_deathmatch with "initial" flag set).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 10, 2013, 08:08:59 pm
For the final release of the pack, I'll be using this naming scheme, based on first release date of each map:

oacmpdm01 - oa_akomdm1
oacmpdm02 - oa_akomdm2
oacmpdm03 - oa_akomdm3
oacmpdm04 - oa_akomdm4
oacmpdm05 - oajgdm1
oacmpdm06 - oajgdm2
oacmpdm07 - mx*dm5
oacmpdm08 - oajgdm3
oacmpdm09 - oa_akomdm5
oacmpdm10 - udestruction
oacmpctf01 - mx*ctf8
oacmpctf02 - oajgctf1
oacmpctf03 - oa_akomctf1

This is to differentiate the mappack versions with any other pk3. There's always the chance that any serveradmin would pick up a pk3 from this thread and put it in him/her server. oacmp* maps will be the final versions. Do you agree with this?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 12:50:26 am
Do you agree with this?
Oh.... I didn't expect this move. I'm a bit confused, I don't know what to answer.

PS: I suppose all maps should contain one info_player_intermission point. If someone did not place it in one of his maps yet, this is the right moment to do... (see also here (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_information_for_special_gametypes#Spawn_points))

PPS: Neon_Knight, what about those textures/shaders folders conventions we were talking about some posts above? However, I would at least tell Jan to do not place OACMP textures/shaders using the "/common" path.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 06:33:34 am
Well, yeah, every map must contain an intermission point, but that's easy to do, sources are a requirement for a reason. ;)

About texture/shaders, I'd prefer to leave that in hand of the mappers themselves, though a bit of order isn't bad by any means.

I've examined the textures folder, and there's a lot of repeated textures. An optimization for the filesize (and at the load moment) can be made by merging textures (for example, there's a lot of black.jpg/black.tga which are just square-sized black textures). Though it becomes a bit difficult when such textures are also used for shaders.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 07:07:08 am
Under Destruction Beta Version 9 is available for download here:
http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/temporary/z_udestruction-version09.pk3
(Link may not be effective forever)

I suppose that removing previous versions is advisable, however probably it's not strictly necessary.

Changelog against beta version 8 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47387#msg47387):

1) - Added "deformvertexes autosprite2" parameter to sparks over jump-pads, this makes them slightly more visibile (they look the same width not counting your -horizontal- angle). Do you like it? For some reason, adding that parameter caused those brushes to project their shadow on near walls, I fixed it just by moving that parameter before others... mystery!
2) - Updated bouncepads and accelerator pads shaders. GrosBedo told me that he liked the metallic color of their image files, but that color was not visible in V8 due to the green light... so I changed the color of the light they emit from green to grey. I also added extra animation effects, do you like them?
3) -  According to GrosBedo suggestion, I rotated the sparks above the accelerator pads, to make them sloping. I like the result, although this rotation caused some "duplicate plane" warnings appear during BSPC compiling (I did not did not rotate them since the beginning due to fear of that). However, considering they are "nonsolid" detail brushes, I *hope* this may not be a major problem... I see bots continue to correctly use the jump-pads just under them.
4) - Some portions of the map have been retexturized (e.g. the ground and the outer "curved walls", the hall of pillars -including some red shingles-, etc.).
5) - Little aesthetic changes in the steps inside the house.
6) - Added a border around the highest tower (execept around the corners), very near to the top... to help jumping there from the roof of the warehouse. Also allows to quickly go there with the grapple.
7) - Some "player clip" bounding around some non-axial woody boxes.
8) - Slightly reworked roof of the prison.
9) - Reworked warehouse wall (in the lower part, near to the ground).
10) - Added a few extra brushes outside the "city entrance" (BFG building), and a woody board inside it.
11) - Added background music, according to Akom74's suggestion. Of course it's just one of OA088 stock musics.
12) - Removed a few "small health" and "armor shard" bonuses here and there (once I found a guy on Pelya's server, and he told me there were too many health bonuses)... some small bonuses have been slightly moved consequently. Also removed two or three ammo boxes, and changed position of a couple.
13) - IIRC, Pelya told that it was still difficult to find the Double Domination point inside the tower, so I added a new simple shader effect around it, visible in DD mode only. Do you like it?
14) - Pelya told that the flag or DD point inside the ruined tower was too difficult to defend, and that walking there he stepped on the central jumppad when he did not want. So I added a plasmagun in the tower, and added some small brushes to have some more "walking area" between the central jump-pad and the four holes at the corners, although this required me some time trying to adjust the push destination of the two jump-pads below. Could you please check if everything is ok now? Adding the balcony with the plasma has got the side effect of making it possible to jump from a tower to the other one, at least if you have the speed powerup.
15) - Slightly enlarged Environment Suit platform.
16) - Added a step from the aqueduct to the warehouse external stairs, due to the fact for some unknown reason bots did not do that simple jump.
17) - Some brushwork inside the cistern, to give the idea of where the water from the aqueduct goes. That part also shows some drops falling... Do you like it or is it horrible?
18) - Sky modified, now the clouds are partially grey and partially green. Also tweaked the illumination parameters. Some other small light fixes. I REALLY NEED YOU GUYS TELL ME IF MAP ILLUMINATION IS CORRECT. It does change too much from a machine to the other, from windowed to fullscreen, when touching the gamma slider, etc, so I'm not able to establish. Please tell me if it's ok, or if the map (or specific parts of it) is too dark or too bright.
19) - Modified the shader of the colums of the temple, now it shows a much less shiny effect. Previous version did much better hide the line where the texture touches itself without being perfectly aligned (I have not been able to proplerly set aligment properties of textures on curves), but it looked like too innatural, don't you think? Added similar texture also to the two central colums in the hall of pillars (but there, without any shiny effect at all).
20) - Placed a small "balcony" also at the window of the cistern.
21) - Added a "Podium" target_location for the place with personal teleporter/kamikaze/invulnerability (I was not sure if to choose "podium" or "double staricase" name...). I also renamed the target locations for the near tower from "Higher tower" to "Highest tower": which of the two names is more correct?
22) - Made a small part of the roof of the warehouse a little higher, since I discovered that before, playing at fixed 125Hz physics, the accelerator pad placed on the roof of the house would have sent me slightly off-target, ending up inside the building instead of on the top of it. A reminder that all maps should be tested at 125 Hz physics AND at 90 Hz physics AND at Accurate physics.
23) - Included a "readme" file, with various (more or less useful) infos. It does already mention version 1.0... but of course in reality this is beta version 9. Is it ok?
24) - "Copying" (GPLv2) file now should look correctly also with standard Windows Notepad.
25) - I hope now the .arena file makes the map appear in all the gametypes I planned (all except Tournament and Single Player), however this has to be checked. By the way, I'm still waiting for some clarification about .arena files (from Sago007 or from soneone else) about what I wrote in this post (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47591#msg47591).
26) Modified grapple respawn time from default (IIRC, 30 seconds in TDM and 5 seconds in all other modes) to 15 seconds. Is this a good or bad idea?

What do you think, guys? Tell me your impressions, bugs you find, etc.
However, after tomorrow morning I will not be able to do anything (probably not even reading the forum) for 10-15 days. In the meanwhile, please test the map in various gametypes, offline and online if possible, and then tell me.

I think the map is more or less 98% complete... however I may do further polishing depending from your feedback... and maybe I should do some try with dividing the map using "cluster portals" to try avoiding those short game stops that one can notice especially when there are various bots in the arena. But I'm completely new with this kind of stuff... do you wanna do some tests in the meanwhile, or tell me how could these adapt to a map with the shape of mine?

PS: I just noticed in Q3Radiant manual here (http://accad.osu.edu/~mlewis/Gauge/q3rmanhtml.htm#_Toc475185841) that a shader like "/common/invisible" or "/common/noimpact" (I have to understand the difference) can be used to create a surface that is not drawn, but that would be marked by weapon fire... and then be used for having marks appear even in places where you used func_static (with gametype key) to show different textures depending from gametype. This sounds interesting, and may be worth a try, although I fear that this may have some problems (the mark appearing floating in the air), unless your func_static decorative brush occupies the same space of another brush... however I can't tell before trying. If someone has got more infos about this, he can share them...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 07:19:19 am
Yay!

I'll pack beta3 now.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 07:22:21 am
I'll pack beta3 now.
Without a fix for OAJGDM2 badly placed *_obelisk entities before?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 11, 2013, 09:36:24 am
I'll pack beta3 now.

And what about the changes to my maps ??
Can you wait a little bit ?

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 10:26:50 am
Guys, I have tried again to compile the map (the same exact .map file) from NetRadiant instead of from Q3Radiant. I used the compiling option to "emulate old style -light -extra" (by the way, is there some documentation that explains the differences between the various "final" compiling modes?).


Attached to this post, you can find the resulting map (usage: /map udestruction09bis, however there is an apposite .arena file for it). It does contain .bsp, .aas and .arena files only: udestruction beta version 09 package (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47698#msg47698) is required for textures and shaders!
This "udestruction09bis" is just a TEST I wish to show you... do not place this one into OACMPBeta3 package! Use standard udestruction09 for that.

As you can see, the map illumination is similar to the previous one, but is not exacly the same (the light emitted by water seems stronger, and the lower part of the podium is much darker... shades are stronger?). Also a few textures have been "scaled up" by the compiler than what I set (example: the tiles on the upper face of the steps inside the house look bigger).
As I told you some months ago, if you get inside the BFG building, the illumination of the weapon you are using SUDDENTLY goes dark, instead of fading as usual. WHY????????

And bots do only move when they see someone in front of them to fight with, otherwise they STAND STILL without going anywhere (this reminds me OAJGCTF1 when Pelya removed those "cluster portal walls", maybe?). BSPC (still the same classic BSPC from Q3Radiant) ran suspiciously VERY QUICKLY, too quickly. Here it is BSPC log.
Quote
BSPC version 2.0, Jun 21 2000 16:12:44 by Mr Elusive
grapplereach = true
optimize = true
bsp2aas: udestruction09bis.bsp to udestruction09bis.aas
-- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP --
Loading map from udestruction09bis.bsp...
creating planar surface planes...
searching visible brush sides...
     0 brush sides1892 brush sides textured out of 8448
-------- Brush CSG ---------
  2816 original brushes
  2646 output brushes
-------- Brush BSP ---------
  2646 brushes
  5295 visible faces
     0 nonvisible faces
 17996 total sides
Win32 multi-threading
     1 threads max
depth first bsp building
  8989 splits
  3676 KB of peak total bsp memory
BSP tree created in     3 seconds
------- Prune Nodes --------
 5650 pruned nodes
---- Node Portalization ----
  3339 nodes portalized
    14 tiny portals
   706 KB of portal memory
  2964 KB of winding memory
------ FloodEntities -------
------- FillOutside --------
  908 solid leaves
  759 leaves filled
    3 inside leaves
AAS_CreateAreas
     3 areas created
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
     0 face merges
AAS_GravitationalSubdivision
     0 gravitational subdivisions
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
     0 face merges
AAS_MergeAreas
     0 areas merged
AAS_PruneNodes
  1642 nodes pruned
     3 areas checked for shared face flipping
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
     0 face merges
AAS_MergePlaneFaces
     0 plane face merges
AAS_LadderSubdivision
     0 ladder subdivisions
AAS_MeltAreaFaceWindings
     0 edges melted
AAS_RemoveTinyFaces
0 tiny faces removed
AAS_CreateAreaSettings
allocated 193 KB and 588 bytes of AAS memory
AAS_StoreFile
     4 areas stored

AAS created in     3 seconds
loading collision map...
CM_LoadMap( udestruction09bis.bsp, 0 )
18 weapon jump areas
calculating reachability...

please wait while storing reachability...
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
trigger_push start solid
trigger_push not in any jump pad area
calculating clusters...
     0 forced portals
     1 portals created
     3 clusters created
cluster 1 has 0 reachability areas
cluster 2 has 0 reachability areas
AAS data optimized.
writing udestruction09bis.aas
freed 193 KB and 588 bytes of AAS memory

For comparison, here it is BSPC log, but related to standard version 09 of the map, where bots actually work (compiled from Q3Radiant)
Quote
BSPC version 2.0, Jun 21 2000 16:12:44 by Mr Elusive
grapplereach = true
optimize = true
bsp2aas: udestruction.bsp to udestruction.aas
-- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP --
Loading map from udestruction.bsp...
creating planar surface planes...
searching visible brush sides...
     0 brush sides6740 brush sides textured out of 8463
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1756: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1955: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1965: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1965: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1975: duplicate plane
-------- Brush CSG ---------
  2816 original brushes
  2645 output brushes
-------- Brush BSP ---------
  2645 brushes
 12234 visible faces
     0 nonvisible faces
 17974 total sides
Win32 multi-threading
     1 threads max
depth first bsp building
 27403 splits
  4940 KB of peak total bsp memory
BSP tree created in     5 seconds
------- Prune Nodes --------
 9834 pruned nodes
---- Node Portalization ----
 17569 nodes portalized
   117 tiny portals
  3647 KB of portal memory
  6457 KB of winding memory
------ FloodEntities -------
------- FillOutside --------
 3937 solid leaves
  461 leaves filled
 4387 inside leaves
AAS_CreateAreas
  4387 areas created
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
  1919 face merges
AAS_GravitationalSubdivision
found 4 epsilon faces trying to split area 517
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 4718
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 1389
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5186
found 2 epsilon faces trying to split area 5195
found 4 epsilon faces trying to split area 5201
found 4 epsilon faces trying to split area 5207
found 3 epsilon faces trying to split area 5213
found 2 epsilon faces trying to split area 1645
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5333
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5369
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5411
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5420
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5425
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5428
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 5435
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 6246
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 6558
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 6569
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 6575
found 1 epsilon faces trying to split area 6603
  1329 gravitational subdivisions
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
    89 face merges
AAS_MergeAreas
  1714 areas merged
AAS_PruneNodes
   617 nodes pruned
  4002 areas checked for shared face flipping
AAS_MergeAreaFaces
  4566 face merges
AAS_MergePlaneFaces
    13 plane face merges
AAS_LadderSubdivision
     0 ladder subdivisions
AAS_MeltAreaFaceWindings
 18802 edges melted
AAS_RemoveTinyFaces
8 tiny faces removed
AAS_CreateAreaSettings
allocated 5 MB and 263 KB and 12 bytes of AAS memory
AAS_StoreFile
AAS_GetFace: face 1296 had degenerate edge 4-5
AAS_GetFace: face 2019 had degenerate edge 4-5
AAS_GetFace: face 2126 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 2339 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 2370 had degenerate edge 0-1
AAS_GetFace: face 2456 had degenerate edge 0-1
AAS_GetFace: face 2487 had degenerate edge 3-0
AAS_GetFace: face 2518 had degenerate edge 3-4
AAS_GetFace: face 2641 had degenerate edge 1-2
AAS_GetFace: face 2672 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 2929 had degenerate edge 3-4
AAS_GetFace: face 2999 had degenerate edge 0-1
AAS_GetFace: face 4700 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 4703 had degenerate edge 0-1
AAS_GetFace: face 5145 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 5752 had degenerate edge 3-0
AAS_GetFace: face 5829 had degenerate edge 3-4
AAS_GetFace: face 10870 had degenerate edge 1-2
AAS_GetFace: face 11002 had degenerate edge 4-0
AAS_GetFace: face 11008 had degenerate edge 5-0
AAS_GetFace: face 11216 had degenerate edge 4-0
AAS_GetFace: face 11266 had degenerate edge 5-0
AAS_GetFace: face 16556 had degenerate edge 0-1
AAS_GetFace: face 17905 had degenerate edge 3-4
AAS_GetFace: face 17915 had degenerate edge 1-2
AAS_GetFace: face 17948 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 20066 had degenerate edge 2-3
AAS_GetFace: face 20068 had degenerate edge 2-3
  4003 areas stored

AAS created in     9 seconds
loading collision map...
CM_LoadMap( udestruction.bsp, 0 )
37 weapon jump areas
calculating reachability...

please wait while storing reachability...
found a trigger_push with velocity -123.359093 98.687271 856.037415
found a trigger_push with velocity 66.787300 0.000000 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity -155.961868 138.137650 789.936707
found a trigger_push with velocity -38.959259 38.959259 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity -916.365479 111.449852 568.506836
found a trigger_push with velocity 1187.258179 135.215515 533.666565
found a trigger_push with velocity -259.928345 0.000000 920.869141
found a trigger_push with velocity 63.606956 -23.852608 885.437744
found a trigger_push with velocity 94.325829 83.845184 671.714233
found a trigger_push with velocity -80.425461 0.000000 744.043030
found a trigger_push with velocity -50.090477 -66.787300 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity 61.221695 -66.787308 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity 61.221695 66.787308 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity -79.672928 15.175797 927.793091
found a trigger_push with velocity -55.656086 0.000000 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity -33.393654 66.787308 632.455566
found a trigger_push with velocity 37.769382 -37.769382 652.380249
found a trigger_push with velocity -172.914124 150.162262 773.563171
calculating clusters...
     0 forced portals
possible portal: 84
possible portal: 83
possible portal: 88
possible portal: 87
possible portal: 90
possible portal: 89
possible portal: 92
possible portal: 91
possible portal: 134
possible portal: 133
possible portal: 207
possible portal: 206
possible portal: 209
possible portal: 208
possible portal: 211
possible portal: 210
possible portal: 334
possible portal: 781
possible portal: 780
possible portal: 784
possible portal: 782
possible portal: 335
possible portal: 783
possible portal: 336
possible portal: 346
possible portal: 353
possible portal: 348
possible portal: 347
possible portal: 352
possible portal: 351
possible portal: 349
possible portal: 350
possible portal: 375
possible portal: 374
possible portal: 382
possible portal: 381
possible portal: 425
possible portal: 424
possible portal: 433
possible portal: 432
possible portal: 497
possible portal: 496
possible portal: 499
possible portal: 498
possible portal: 523
possible portal: 522
possible portal: 679
possible portal: 678
possible portal: 712
possible portal: 711
possible portal: 788
possible portal: 786
possible portal: 792
possible portal: 787
possible portal: 785
possible portal: 791
possible portal: 790
possible portal: 789
possible portal: 795
possible portal: 1721
possible portal: 1720
possible portal: 797
possible portal: 796
possible portal: 794
possible portal: 1719
possible portal: 793
possible portal: 891
possible portal: 890
possible portal: 996
possible portal: 995
possible portal: 1068
possible portal: 1067
possible portal: 1146
possible portal: 1145
possible portal: 1156
possible portal: 1155
possible portal: 1266
possible portal: 1265
possible portal: 1726
possible portal: 1725
possible portal: 1729
possible portal: 1727
possible portal: 1728
possible portal: 1724
possible portal: 1723
possible portal: 1722
possible portal: 1731
possible portal: 1736
possible portal: 1737
possible portal: 1732
possible portal: 1735
possible portal: 1730
possible portal: 1734
possible portal: 1733
possible portal: 1738
possible portal: 1745
possible portal: 1741
possible portal: 1739
possible portal: 1744
possible portal: 1743
possible portal: 1740
possible portal: 1742
possible portal: 1768
possible portal: 1767
possible portal: 1769
possible portal: 2879
possible portal: 2880
possible portal: 2881
possible portal: 2953
possible portal: 2952
     1 portals created
     2 clusters created
cluster 1 has 2086 reachability areas
AAS data optimized.
writing udestruction.aas
freed 5 MB and 263 KB and 12 bytes of AAS memory

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Something?????????  ??? ??? ??? ???
Any help would be appreciated. I'd like to publish a map fully NetRadiant compabile, if possible. I don't know if Akom's maps have similar issues, if compiled from NetRadiant.

-------------------

I'll pack beta3 now.

And what about the changes to my maps ??
Can you wait a little bit ?

;)
I asked you to make a few changes ("If you have free time, what about adding DD and Dom support in your CTF FFA maps?") for months, and now you are in late??? Grrr!!! >:( ..... Just joking, it's all good for me, you know for one-two weeks I will not be able to test OACMPBeta3...  :D :D :D



Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 10:31:44 am
You're on luck. I haven't started yet. :P

What things should I do before packing?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 11, 2013, 10:40:01 am
I'll pack beta3 now.

And what about the changes to my maps ??
Can you wait a little bit ?

;)
I asked you to make a few changes ("If you have free time, what about adding DD and Dom support in your CTF maps") for months, and now you are in late??? Grrr!!! >:( ..... Just joking, it's all good for me, you know for one-two weeks I will not be able to test OACMPBeta3...  :D :D :D

I know you're joking, but my CTF map (the only i've made) have the support fo DD and Domination.

I miss something  ???

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 10:42:15 am
@Akom
My fault, I typed "CTF" instead of "FFA".
Dom and DD can work well also with FFA maps.

@Neon_Knight: you may give me some suggestions about how to resolve those problems. But I will leave home (on holiday) very soon... Of course fixes would be for version 10, at the end of July...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 11:56:50 am
I'll pack beta3 now.
Without a fix for OAJGDM2 badly placed *_obelisk entities before?
Gameplay support fix is easy.
Give me some minutes.

@Akom
My fault, I typed "CTF" instead of "FFA".
Dom and DD can work well also with FFA maps.

@Neon_Knight: you may give me some suggestions about how to resolve those problems. But I will leave home (on holiday) very soon...
I need to check your map for that, I shall do it now, but don't expect a quick solution.

Right now the only suggestion I can give to you is to get q3map2build for map compiling. It's way better and more customizable than the compilation options from any Radiant editor. In fact, since I've started mapping, I've never used the compile menu in any Radiant.

Also, you should get updated versions of both BSPC and q3map2. NetRadiant's q3map2 does a great job for bspc, light and vis, while any newer version of BSPC (there're some on the BSPC stickied thread) beats the compiled versions which comes with Q3/GTKRadiant.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 11, 2013, 12:19:38 pm
Hi all, i've fixed the maps and gived the download link to Neon_Knight  ;D

I hope that's all correct  :P

Added Invulnerability that now follow the moving-plate.

(http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/13/33/70/40/shot0024.jpg)

Removed the curved polygons for the light lamp.

(http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/13/33/70/40/shot0025.jpg)

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 11, 2013, 12:53:59 pm
I'll pack beta3 now.
Without a fix for OAJGDM2 badly placed *_obelisk entities before?
Gameplay support fix is easy.
Give me some minutes.
You might have the same sky issues as Pelya did; and the teleporters probably wont emit light anymore...I still have not unified my shader files...

Th easiest fix is to not support that particular gametype...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 01:00:04 pm
The sky issue in oajgctf1? It was caused by an old version of a shader file. Now it can be seen.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: jangroothuijse on July 11, 2013, 01:01:05 pm
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4r2.pk3 (http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm2beta4r2.pk3)

edit: And this time i did observe the bots fire at the obelisks.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Akom74 on July 11, 2013, 01:10:43 pm
I've examined the textures folder, and there's a lot of repeated textures. An optimization for the filesize (and at the load moment) can be made by merging textures (for example, there's a lot of black.jpg/black.tga which are just square-sized black textures). Though it becomes a bit difficult when such textures are also used for shaders.

Watch out that probably the black.tga have a sky effect and the black.jpg is just a black texture.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 01:28:47 pm
So... can I start packing the beta3, or is something else missing?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: pelya on July 11, 2013, 01:58:34 pm
So many replies today. I love watching how other people work so intensely *leans back and opens a bottle*  ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Gig on July 11, 2013, 02:18:21 pm
Also, you should get updated versions of both BSPC and q3map2. NetRadiant's q3map2 does a great job for bspc, light and vis, while any newer version of BSPC (there're some on the BSPC stickied thread) beats the compiled versions which comes with Q3/GTKRadiant.
Could you please give me links to win32 binaries for them? I quickly searched on the sticked thread, but some of them link to repositories lists where it is not so easy to identify which files to download...
And one of those tools web page (maybe the one recently posted by GrosBedo?) has got an option list where the grapplereach option is not mentioned...

I didn't even know that an external "q3map2build" program did exist... although maybe I already read this name somewhere.

In the meanwhile... has someone already tried udestruction v9? Do you like it?

Gig from mobile phone.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 2
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 03:18:44 pm
In the BSPC thread, I've left a compiled version for Win32 of the bnoordhuis bspc (it's the TTimo fork, anyway, it still serves it's purpose and has all the benefits and updates of the bnoordhuis bspc)

As for q3map2build, since almost every D/L link is dead, you might want to download the attachment at this thread.


Title: OACMP BETA 3!!!
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 11, 2013, 05:33:00 pm
NEW VERSION!!!

http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_130711-oacmp_beta3.zip (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/!oacmp/z_130711-oacmp_beta3.zip)

Weighing 56MB, including sources and license file.
Enjoy!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 11, 2013, 07:32:48 pm
@Gig: I tried udestruction v9 earlier today. I like the enhancements. I already liked the map from prior versions, but v9 is improved!!! I only played FFA with 7 or 8 bots. I normally play with my graphics low-med, but I cranked everything up for this test-drive. Lighting was spot on without tweaking gamma. Good mix of light and dark areas. Even with the healthy supply of weapons and ammo, there are some spots where it would be possible to run low in a serious melee and have no nearby re-supply.

Well done.

Now that I've downloaded beta 3, time to frag some bots...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 11, 2013, 08:40:12 pm
Sometimes I wonder what I could do to improve the thing, but I don't really map.


A detail texture adding pass to all the shaders? Dunno... also i'd have to do it with the "lightmap stage first then detail stage second" method for the optimization. Late realizations suck.

Adding PowerVR hacks to shaders? Maybe.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 11, 2013, 10:38:28 pm
Okay, spent awhile playing through with a custom maplist a few times. All the maps play well. Thanks all!

Granted, I only played FFA (so far) with bots, but I think I put the maps to a good test.

As to the next map pack.  ;)

Two requests:

1. A cockroach map. I admit to a bit of nostalgia on this. Playing UT2K4 there were quite a few well made cockroach maps. Having just one in a map rotation can break some monotony.

2. A low-grav map, specifically, on the lines of UT-Morpheus. This was (and may still be) a very popular map design. One of my UT favorites. Not saying to copy it (though that would be kewl), but the idea has a different playability. I was reminded of this by Akom's low-grav map!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 12, 2013, 12:24:57 am
Thank you Neon_Knight for those two useful links. I'll have to try them when I will return from holidays...
I suppose they could be upoloaded to a server that does not require registering for downloading, and linked in Mapping resources & tutorial page (http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Mapping_resources_%26_tutorials).

Thank you Zeroth for feedback.  :)
Probably it's better if you may repeat requests for new maps when "OACMP volume 2" thread will be started... Of course someone may already start working on them. By the way, what's a "cockroach map"? ??? I have no idea!

Fromhell, I don't know what to tell you, except this: considering you are a modeller (the only one OA modeller, I fear), you may make a few md3 models to be included in some maps, maybe for volume 2, or even for volume1 if there is some time (example: I'd like to place a small "climber, creeper" plant next to a wall of the BFG building... although I don't know if that would really fit). There is a "mapmodels" thread here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4797.0). I don't know if any volume1 map does contain any md3 model (except those that automatically come with gma entities, of course), but I fear not. I may not remember correctly, but maybe Akom once asked some help about how to place existing OA models inside the map, but noone answered.

PS: I've just added item 26) to the changelog list of udestructionV09 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47698#msg47698), I forgot to write it before.

PPS: I've just made my first post-version09 fix to my map. Playing in Overload mode, I noticed that bots too rarely go near to the red obelisk, so I just added some more item_botroam in that area.

PPPS: First tests with OACMPBeta3:
Jan's DM2: Tried in Overload mode, I can confirm the bug of bots that shoot at you does not happen anymore in that map.  :) However, there is still the problem of some teleporters that will very likely cause you to fall down from the platform they are placed on (when exiting a teleporter, you receive a push forward).  :(

Akom's DM4: tried in FFA mode. The invulnerability seems nice in a spaceship-themed map, also due to the fact its model reminds me a little "Death Star" from Star Wars.  :D
I think some more maps from Akom may be listed for TDM and Elimination modes (most notably, oa_akomDM3 !!! Maybe also DM1 may fit.).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 12, 2013, 02:47:46 am
A few more tests:
Jan's DM1: Starting it in DD mode, initial "telefrag" happened. Same happened also in FFA: probably more spawn points are needed! I'd suggest to place at least 12-16 FFA spawn points in maps (in my map, I placed about 22 of them)...

Moixie's ctf map: I didn't thought that, but it seems it's quite playable and funny also with a single Domination point...  :)

Moixie's ffa map: It has got that problem with 125 Hz physics (lower jump-pads send you slightly off-target)... Players can use arrow keys to compensate the problem... but I don't know when playing online... Just a thought: considering the size, maybe that map may be named as a "tourney" instead of "dm"?

My map: the static part of the button lacks the "func_static" that should hide it in Elimination and LMS modes. Strange, I thought I fixed that before... You will find this fixed in V10. Question: should I remove the door of the city entrance also in Elimination CTF mode?
Other change: I've just added a second grappling hook, next to the city entrance, and set "wait" time for both at 25 seconds.

Akom's CTF1: May have done a try of creating the .aas file with -grapplereach option, maybe?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 12, 2013, 06:49:47 am
1. A cockroach map. I admit to a bit of nostalgia on this. Playing UT2K4 there were quite a few well made cockroach maps. Having just one in a map rotation can break some monotony.

2. A low-grav map, specifically, on the lines of UT-Morpheus. This was (and may still be) a very popular map design. One of my UT favorites. Not saying to copy it (though that would be kewl), but the idea has a different playability. I was reminded of this by Akom's low-grav map!
For now we're polishing the maps for the Vol.1, but you can ask for such requests in Vol.2 once we're done with Vol.1.

Oh, BTW, Gig, I've finally found the BFG in your map. :P Pretty cool way to hide an item.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 12, 2013, 07:27:24 am
I've done a quick test of all the maps in ugly vertex light + powervr mock mode. Most of the maps look great in vertexlight (especially the jg ones, where vertexlight kinda makes them look like Doom64 maps) and there's very little shader artifacts in powervr mock mode, so minimal changes could be done to a few shaders to make them 'blend' on powervr properly - namely, those egyptian green glowing textures that are additively blended can have a "//PVRHACK alphahack add" in the additive stages (before the map shader command!) and the fading jumppad effect on the jg maps could just gain an alphaGen wave in addition to its rgbGen wave.

As for the "cockroach map" you're referring to those maps such as all those Padmaps right?  Would be interesting to have some sort of WoP tribute. maybe.  But which room?  A kitchen with a kitchen sink that shreds, a toaster that's a jump pad, and a freezer? A lavatory where we have the toilet of death that has a bfg in there at the risk of being flushed, as well as a huge mirror?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 12, 2013, 08:04:39 am
Gig, here're the links for bspc and q3map2build:
(adding later, forgot to pack something)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 12, 2013, 10:00:23 am
Sorry to get ahead of the schedule. I failed to focus on the BETA part of the map pack.

@fromhell: Yes, those sound like "cockroach" maps. The only one I've found so far for OA is called reqkitchen.

Now I'll stay out of the way unless I find something worth mentioning about a Vol 1 map.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 12, 2013, 10:23:15 am
Well, if you want, give us feedback about the maps of the pack. =)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 12, 2013, 10:28:56 am
Well, if you want, give us feedback about the maps of the pack. =)

I agree with that, another beta-tester is welcome !!  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 12, 2013, 10:45:08 am
Hello people!

This is going to be my LAST post for about 10 days...
When I will return from holidays, I will require some time to keep up with the news... :)

@Neon_Knight: I will try that stuff later... in the meanwhile, I suppose you may add those links to the wiki "mapping resources". About the wiki, I noticed that the maps-gametypes table in the OACMP page does not list my map for EliminationCTF, Overload and Harvester modes, that are supported instead. I'm writing from cell phone, could you please fix it?

@Zeroth. I saw at least one of such "kitchen" maps. Those maps are funny to see, I can imagine that one located into a bedroom, toilet, or similar could be nice oacmp volume 2. But you would need a mapper more skilled and faster than me for a such job. IF I will make a map for volume 2, I suppose I may make only a very small and simple Tourney map (and I have already a precise idea for it, although I don't know if that will work at all... finishing a very small map that Akom started for me -following my drawings- maaaany years ago, but there were some tech problems with it and maybe it totally sucks. I should still have the .map file, but it's many years I don't open it or launch the map... Akom, if you remember it, don't tell them about it for the moment. I will not further annoy you with details now, I can only say that the ability to actually finish that map or not mostly depends from the limits of the "foggy" shaders. Playability problems could be related to it being too small, instead.... so I don't know if that idea will have a future or not.)... I cannot spend again all the time I've spent on Udestruction!

@All. Goodbye for now guys! See you soon! :)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 12, 2013, 11:18:24 am
Hello people!

This is going to be my LAST post for about 10 days...
When I will return from holidays, I will require some time to keep up with the news... :)

Goodbye for now guys! See you soon! :)

Goodbye Gig. Enjoy your Holydays and think at another new great map !! :P :D :D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 12, 2013, 12:38:05 pm
Have a nice vacation Gig, and don't worry if we'll move second Domination point to the roof ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Graion Dilach on July 12, 2013, 06:12:51 pm
Ohio.

So I was messing with my Red Alert 2 mod (which is the reason I disappeared) earlier this day and set it up for tomorrow's to-do and was wondering what to do now when Winamp started playing Quake 3's sonic2... and then I dusted off my OpenArena install and went here to check what's new, then seeing as this is the only thing going here atm... I simply just gave a run to all the DMs in it with bots.

AkomDM1 was interesting tho I somehow couldn't really get the hang of it (maybe because I lagged due to having a wriong config - lag disappeared after I enabled GLExt, tho that only happened on AkomDM2)
AkomDM2 felt a better dm17-inspired map than most DM17 maps I played. Honestly, I never liked dm17, never got why it's so populat, but this one actually 'told' me why. Either way, I like that one. Fast, furious, deadly.
AkomDM3 was a wow. The map's style reminded me a bit to Serious Sam 1. The textures and the layout are amazing, I didn't thought that OA already has Egyptian marking for the walls and such. The hidden room was also wow... because I fired it's entrance  from instinct... and mind you, I still fail in this entire genre. xD
AkomDM4. AkomDM4. GOD. THE. HOMAGE. It's so sad that jute's tracks can't add the feeling it deserves... but idea is grandiose and even Invulnerability wasn't superOP on that map. I clap my hands.
AkomDM5 was fast-paced and interesting. I like those flares,. Very well made.
MX1dm5... I didn't even notice the shotgun at first... but it's so simple that it makes me smile how well it works. Maybe there's too much ammo, but the design is nice.
jgdm1... after it loaded I felt I'm Mario. It was after the first 4 Akoms and I so muxch missed the music. On the other hand it does feel a bit more cartoony than most maps within this game. But I liked it.
Tho jgdm2 and jgdm3 I didn't. They seem wide and open to me... maybe too much. I like the visuals tho. Overall, I feel the jgdnm maps would certainly need some kind of music to add in, and they feel quite unique in the map pool, kinda reminds me to pulchr's simple-colored CTF map. That's good IMO... and I guess jgdm2 and jgdm3 are just not my style afterall. Kudos to the jumppads tho, I like that directing style.
And Under Destruction... GOD. That's my favourite. Certainly, that is. I did have some lag spikes on it but that probably was that I still haven't tweaked my config ultimately (or just the fact that the map is SUCH COOL to kill an Athlon II x3 450 :D) The fact that it was made by Gig was something I only noticed when I started writing this summary. I'm totally amazed.

Overall, I think the pack is great already, and what I really missed was only music from the jgdms... it was cool to actually dust off the memories regarding this game with this mappack.

When I logged in to write this post, I noticed the PM I got last week from Gig regarding the Grappling hook. As far as I remember I didn't seen titbits of the code of it's usage. I won't promise anything (I have failed miserably with my coding promises in these last 3 years) but if I'll have time I take a look into it.... I don't even promise that I'll be a regular again, but I'll try to step in a weekly basis if not more. Sorry, but I have a summer job, two uni projects, one Red Alert 2 coding project, and can't-even-count how many RA2 mods which I was invited into.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 12, 2013, 07:48:27 pm
Reading the egyptsoc shader has a disclaimer. Is sock aware of this pack using his stuff?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 12, 2013, 08:56:40 pm
Apparently... (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg45745#msg45745)

Anyway, if we couldn't make use of those textures... what alternatives do we have?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 12, 2013, 09:59:35 pm
I've updated my server with OACMP beta 3 - 78.27.177.68 port 93 (http://dpmaster.deathmask.net/?game=openarena&server=78.27.177.68:93)
I've changed game type for Udestruction map to Double Domination (initially it was Elimination). Game type for other CTF maps remain to be CTF, should I change it to something else? They all support almost all gametypes.

Edit: I've found a bug in MX2DM5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08LgFIXdhgU&t=5s), you can fall through the staircase.
MX3CTF8 became more interesting.
OA_AKOMDM1 is still too dark.
Other maps are all OK.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 12, 2013, 10:32:31 pm
Here's a .shader file with detail stages for the egyptsoc textures.   Hopefully this file is an example of how detail textures should be applied to a shader.

I gave it a oa3_textures_ syntax for another future example. I also wonder how well this would work out with existing maps that use the same egyptsoc textures


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 13, 2013, 03:35:29 pm
Confirmed bug in mx2dm5. Appears to be possible to fall through on both sides of all 4 stairs. There is just enough of a gap between the top stair and the wall. Should be fixable by simply extending top stair in both directions. Don't see that such a fix would impact overall look of the map.

Update: Found a slight glitch in oa_akomdm1. It is possible to get temporarily stuck on top of the coffins on the lower level. At the back corner of each coffin I was able to become stuck. No obvious architectural problem, must be the coffin itself.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 13, 2013, 11:51:06 pm
Update: Found a slight glitch in oa_akomdm1. It is possible to get temporarily stuck on top of the coffins on the lower level. At the back corner of each coffin I was able to become stuck. No obvious architectural problem, must be the coffin itself.

Fixed, thank you  :P ;D

@Pelya: What do you mean for "too dark" for oa_akomdm1 ?? Maybe it's your settings ? I mean, nobody tell me that it's too dark and i see it normal on my PC, but i can be wrong :P

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 14, 2013, 10:19:02 am
Well yes, I'm setting my monitor brightness to the minimum, so if other people do not complain, I won't complain too. Other oa_akomdm maps have more balanced brightness level though, and in oa_akomdm1 it's mainly dark in the upper corridors, it's brighter at the center (however that won't matter if you select Cyber-Garg and Rai bots, they are visible everywhere).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 14, 2013, 12:07:24 pm
Well yes, I'm setting my monitor brightness to the minimum, so if other people do not complain, I won't complain too. Other oa_akomdm maps have more balanced brightness level though, and in oa_akomdm1 it's mainly dark in the upper corridors, it's brighter at the center (however that won't matter if you select Cyber-Garg and Rai bots, they are visible everywhere).

No problem Pelya, i was thinking to rebuild the map's light, but now i think to leave like it is....
....for the moment :P :P .....

Thanks for beta-testing !!  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 15, 2013, 06:10:13 am
So far, no big issues aside of mx2dm5 and the stairs problem. Very good. Maybe after this can we release RCs?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 15, 2013, 09:14:54 am
So far, no big issues aside of mx2dm5 and the stairs problem. Very good. Maybe after this can we release RCs?

yes, maybe. No problem for me......  :P ;D

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 15, 2013, 09:32:56 am
Would be awesome. It feels like we're really close to release.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 15, 2013, 10:14:33 am
Yeah, and even still we should make sure that there won't be last minute surprises.

For the next volume of OACMP, we're going to do things in a different way. First phase before beta 1 will be map delivery. Posterior phases before beta 2 onwards will be for polishing. Perhaps we may have less maps than V1, but we'll have more time for polishing, playtesting and bugfixing. Also, many maps for OACMP2 are already being worked (Akom has been working on them since he finished his OACMP1 maps, and Peter has god_base, which was set for OACMP1 but didn't make it in time) so we don't really need much time for map delivery. Do you agree with this?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 15, 2013, 10:20:43 am
Yeah, and even still we should make sure that there won't be last minute surprises.

For the next volume of OACMP, we're going to do things in a different way. First phase before beta 1 will be map delivery. Posterior phases before beta 2 onwards will be for polishing. Perhaps we may have less maps than V1, but we'll have more time for polishing, playtesting and bugfixing. Also, many maps for OACMP2 are already being worked (Akom has been working on them since he finished his OACMP1 maps, and Peter has god_base, which was set for OACMP1 but didn't make it in time) so we don't really need much time for map delivery. Do you agree with this?

Of course i agree. I'm near holiday time and i think to have more time to dedicate to OA maps.
Actually i have 4 maps in "work in progress" status, and i'm eating a lot of pills to do everything but my body need some sleep and my mind it's lost from a long time, then no problem XDXD...... :P

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 15, 2013, 02:16:13 pm
@pelya: I'm not sure where to post this, so I went straight to source. I cannot login to OACMP (nor OAC Fair DM) server: "Game mismatch: This is a Quake3Arena Server." I ran into this before, and it was assumed that the problem was because I was not running 0.8.8.

I did a clean install of 0.8.8 from the Fedora repo, and I do know how to add and remove pk3's from my /home/.openarena/baseoa to make it a "clean" install, or not. My /usr/share/openarena/baseoa dir is original. With above dir "clean", I still can't log in.

If there's something I'm missing, or this problem has been dealt with in a different thread, please tell me.

I am attempting to become more involved, as a beta tester of maps, if nothing else, and being able to test maps on an Internet server might help enormously.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 15, 2013, 03:02:55 pm
No idea about that. I've tested my server with 0.8.8 Linux binary client downloaded from openarena.ws, and it was working fine. Just tell me what to change in my server, I'll do that.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: zeroth on July 15, 2013, 04:02:31 pm
I'll do more research, and if necessary, start a new thread. Thanks.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Moixie on July 15, 2013, 06:14:33 pm
I added a target_position (coupled with an info...intermission, so all spectators spawn at the same place) and target_locations (in team games, you can know where you and your teammates are on the map) to MxCtf8 and I fixed the stair bug on MxDm5. I have already named the maps with their CmpPak name (OaCMPDm07 and OaCMPCtf01), If they are finished, we don't have to compile them under another name and we just have to put them in the last pack, if not, we still can work on them... You can download them on the attachments (I wanted to do only 1 pk3, but the file was too heavy for the server).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 18, 2013, 04:15:55 pm
Do the detail textures work in the pack?  Are there any visual anomalies?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 18, 2013, 04:29:34 pm
I'll test in a few minutes.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 21, 2013, 08:59:19 am
Here's a .shader file with detail stages for the egyptsoc textures.   Hopefully this file is an example of how detail textures should be applied to a shader.

I gave it a oa3_textures_ syntax for another future example. I also wonder how well this would work out with existing maps that use the same egyptsoc textures
Tested in oa3cmpdm03 (a.k.a. oa_akomdm3). Some screenshots with r_Detailtextures 1. So far, everything's OK. Is there anything else I need to activate?

(http://i.imgur.com/NF2lpe0s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/NF2lpe0) (http://i.imgur.com/mTW6VH4s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mTW6VH4) (http://i.imgur.com/FYGh99js.jpg) (http://imgur.com/FYGh99j) (http://i.imgur.com/CxFVQi5s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/CxFVQi5) (http://i.imgur.com/a6m5IH5s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/a6m5IH5) (http://i.imgur.com/9z0I6SCs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/9z0I6SC) (http://i.imgur.com/O7CLCHVs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/O7CLCHV) (http://i.imgur.com/uO9kniis.jpg) (http://imgur.com/uO9knii) (http://i.imgur.com/sIWmhUhs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/sIWmhUh) (http://i.imgur.com/qfv9DlMs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/qfv9DlM) (http://i.imgur.com/IQcW8Sms.jpg) (http://imgur.com/IQcW8Sm) (http://i.imgur.com/GmSv2mVs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/GmSv2mV) (http://i.imgur.com/lsJ2okOs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/lsJ2okO) (http://i.imgur.com/xzJn3DIs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/xzJn3DI) (http://i.imgur.com/tAYMFlws.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tAYMFlw)

I have another map to test which uses egyptsoc textures, oa_reptctf3 (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2864.0).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 23, 2013, 04:13:33 am
Hi guys, I'm briefly online now, but I will have to disconnect soon, and I don't know if I will have another chance to connect this week (maybe Thursday).
Next week I should be able to be some more available, I hope to be able to release V10 then, but I cannot assure it.
Apart from a couple of small fixes I've already done, the challenge is trying to use the tools Neon_Knight posted some days ago (q3map2build (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47717#msg47717) and forked bspc (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2795.msg47716#msg47716)... wait: didn't you tell you would have posted updated links for them here (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47726#msg47726)?  :-\)
What I'm aiming for is to have the map compiling be completely independent from Q3Radiant (it is possible to edit the map with NetRadiant, but the result is slightly different if the map is compiled from there... has someone tried my udestruction09bis (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47702#msg47702) test version?)... and hoping to resolve those "short-freeze" problems that occasionally occur in it due to sometimes bot logic taking too much to choose where to go (especially with many bots, also with a quite powerful machine).
But I'll be busy with real life also next week and I don't know if I will have the time required for doing that and then testing bot behavior enough.

Question: should I remove the door of the city entrance also in Elimination CTF mode? In CTF Elimination, surviving does not automatically grant victory, but maybe hiding there for some time letting other players to consume their health in the meanwhile does not sound nice anyway?

By the way, thank you for your comments, Graion. And welcome back! :)

@Neon_Knight... maybe also a few screenshots showing the same places taken with the detailtextures option both on and off may have been nice.

PS: I haven't tested latest versions yet, and I cannot do it today... is the 125 Hz physics problem in Moixie's map somehow fixed? Or at least, did someone check if the player can actually compensate it working with arrow keys also if playing online, possibly with a ping higher than 70? I don't know which kind of physics is Pelya's server using.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 23, 2013, 08:12:57 am
A few things more, writing from cell phone.

@Zeroth: did you try manually downloading the game from official site instead of using the Fedora repository? Third-party repositories sometimes have some small differences...

@Pelya. Hi man, do you have some feedback about udestruction v9? What do you think about the changes I did in the tower? Does it play better now?

I hope to be able to do some actual test on your server for oacmp beta3 before a rc will be done. I hope also other guys here will: I think all our maps need more online testing before releasing, Did I told you that maybe setting up custom votes to change game physics on the server may be useful? Unfortunately, in this period, I'm not capable of using the pc a lot.

Other things I'd like to see before a RC include fixes to a few Jan's maps problems (I wrote some feedback here http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47722#msg47722 and the following post... about Jan's maps, I mentioned initial telefrag and teleporter exiting problems).


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: pelya on July 23, 2013, 02:36:09 pm
I'm quite busy this week with my job, sorry. I hope I'll test new maps this weekend (and also update them on server)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Moixie on July 24, 2013, 07:18:02 am
is the 125 Hz physics problem in Moixie's map somehow fixed? Or at least, did someone check if the player can actually compensate it working with arrow keys also if playing online, possibly with a ping higher than 70? I don't know which kind of physics is Pelya's server using.

I just tested it with someone on my server. even when his ping was above 200, he could pass the door.
Then, in 90Hz, it works fine, arrow keys aren't necessary. In 125Hz, if you don't use your keys, your head will touch the roof and you'll come back on the jump. Well, it doesn't work but it's not hard to compensate it with the arrow keys.

It's not perfect but there's apparently no way to do it so both physics work well. Then, that's not so hard to compensate it, I don't think it'll be the n°1 die during games.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 25, 2013, 02:43:54 am
It's not perfect but there's apparently no way to do it so both physics work well.
The only way that comes in my mind would be to transform the first jump-pad into a teleporter that would make you re-appear just above the central jump-pad. In that case, when placing the teleporter exit, you should remember that when exiting from a teleporter, players get a small push forward (that currently is a problem with Jan's second DM map!).
Quote
Then, that's not so hard to compensate it, I don't think it'll be the n°1 die during games.
Maybe you're right...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 25, 2013, 02:59:36 am
About the "detail texture" (detail shader stage) thing, if someone is interested in some infos, here there are two links:
http://toolz.nexuizninjaz.com/shader/shader/section6.htm#6.9 (from q3 shader manual.. it says that detail stages have to follow some rules)
http://www.openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4103.0 (suggestion from Fromhell)

I can see r_detailtextures is set to 1 by default... if a shader does use a detail stage, I suppose we should check it looks acceptable also if the players sets r_detailtextures 0.

I've just added a few infos about it here:
http://openarena.wikia.com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options#Texture_quality_and_detail
Please correct/integrate it if something is wrong or missing.... I may have misunderstood something.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 28, 2013, 07:06:58 am
PII Voodoo2 system performance runs most of these maps around 5-16fps FYI

the akom maps run around 6-12, the jg ones run 13-32, and udestruction is........ just........ 1-3fps with SEVERE hitches that are 10 seconds long.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 28, 2013, 09:05:39 am
PII Voodoo2 system performance runs most of these maps around 5-16fps FYI

the akom maps run around 6-12, the jg ones run 13-32, and udestruction is........ just........ 1-3fps with SEVERE hitches that are 10 seconds long.

Whoops, i think that we have to make our maps more "light", to give the possibility to the users with old hardware to play with this mappack.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: fromhell on July 28, 2013, 09:24:47 am
 The fastest akom map is actually that spaceship one

Remember that the system i'm testing is heavily cpu bottlenecked and I do have bots running... and i'm testing with OA 0.8.8 which is just slow overall.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 28, 2013, 09:56:52 am
The fastest akom map is actually that spaceship one

Remember that the system i'm testing is heavily cpu bottlenecked and I do have bots running... and i'm testing with OA 0.8.8 which is just slow overall.

Than we have to wait ? Ok, just tell us  ;)

P.S.: Your screens are very dark, it's just your settings ?

 ;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 28, 2013, 11:34:34 am
Remember that the system i'm testing is heavily cpu bottlenecked and I do have bots running... and i'm testing with OA 0.8.8 which is just slow overall.
... and a comparison with some other OA maps, on the same machine?

Fortunately, OACMP maps do not have all the strict rules of OA3...  :D
By the way, for my map, in the next days I'll have to do tests with q3map2build and the updated bspc... hoping that would be capable of making bots logic work somehow better. Otherwise, I have no idea about how to manually subdivide this map in clusters (I think read in Q3radiant manual that botclusters "walls" should connect TWO clusters only... considering my map is basically a single great square, does it mention I may only place a single cluster wall arbitrarily splitting the map in two? That does not sound nice.)...
Suggestions are welcome.

Maybe I should place one or two less bots in the .arena file? At the moment, there are various, to make the gameplay frenetic... and also due to I hoped those bots would have been used also in Elimination mode... but for some reason, they are not used there, IIRC. Any idea about the reason why the bots specified in the .arena file are actually used only in some gametypes, and not in others?

PS: @Neon_Knight.. what's with this (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4679.msg47726#msg47726)?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 28, 2013, 03:51:26 pm
Oh, yeah, that's because I have to compile win32 binaries instead of linux binaries.
I'm still trying to figure out how to do that.

P.S: What about some kind of fog which culls what's drawn in the screen? A la ctf_compromise (older versions) or q3tourney5. That way, less stuff should be drawn.


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 29, 2013, 06:35:02 am
Uhm... a quick try adding "stock" Q3A fog effects to the map... quite disappointing (tested with 3 different of them). See screenshots.
Ideas?

Today, I've really been TOO busy with real life, I cannot test anything more today.
Bye!


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 29, 2013, 08:06:07 am
There's a lot of fogs to experiment, perhaps you chose them wrong?

Here's a list of available fogs from OA:
czest2ctf/darkfog
sfx/hellfog_pj_dm10
sfx/hellfog_mini_dm10
sfx/hellfog_tim_dm14
sfx/kc_hellfog_1k
sfx/hellfog_1k
sfx/hellfog
sfx/constfog
sfx/q3tourney3fog
sfx/q3dm9fog
sfx/q3dm14fog
sfx/hellfogdense
sfx/xlightgreyfog
sfx/xdensegreyfog
sfx/xfinalfog
sfx/xbluefog
sfx/xredfog
sfx/fog_timdm1
sfx/fog_timdm2
sfx/fog_timdm8
sfx/fog_timctf1
sfx/fog_pjdm1
sfx/fog_intel
sfx/proto_hellfog
sfx/fog_q3dm10
sfx/mkc_fog_tdm3
sfx/mkc_fog_ctfred
sfx/mkc_fog_ctfblue
sfx/mkc_fog_ctfblue2
fogs/fogyou
fogs/fogoff
fogs/fog_orange
sfx2/ouchfog
sfx2/dist_fog
sfx/xnotsodensegreyfog


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 29, 2013, 08:10:27 am
I will not be able to put my hands on the map again today.
Considering you have the .map file, do you wanna do some try, in the meanwhile?

However, I'm not sure the fog really limits the number of polygons that are elaborated... are you sure?


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 29, 2013, 10:18:44 am
@Gig: in Q3A a map with the fog is more heavy for the engine that a map without fog, i don't know in OA, but i think if you want to lighten up the map, you have to try to delete the curved wall (mountain?) at the border and place simply "caulked" polygons.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Gig on July 29, 2013, 10:57:45 am
Uhm... Even if I would want to do it (I'm not sure about it), I really don't actually have chance to try a such thing before something like 20 days... Real life asks for me, and replacing all those rounded walls with an high number of vertical brushes (many, many sections... to avoid the original "box" feel of the map) is a thing I cannot try right now (just thinking to the time required for "dragging edges").

If fog is not an optimization, the only optimization I can try this week is the one for bots: trying what happens compiling map and .aas file with the two tools Neon_Knight linked. I've not been able to even take a look to them, yet. I don't even know if they are actually working on win32, considering that he stated he has not been able to compile something for win32...

By the way, also from q3radiant documentation it looks like fog does not work well with things like moving brushes/doors...


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Akom74 on July 29, 2013, 11:07:03 am
Uhm... Even if I would want to do it (I'm not sure about it), I really don't actually have chance to try a such thing before something like 20 days... Real life asks for me, and replacing all those rounded walls with an high number of vertical brushes (many, many sections... to avoid the original "box" feel of the map) is a thing I cannot try right now (just thinking to the time required for "dragging edges").

If fog is not an optimization, the only optimization I can try this week is the one for bots: trying what happens compiling map and .aas file with the two tools Neon_Knight linked. I've not been able to even take a look to them, yet. I don't even know if they are actually working on win32, considering that he stated he has not been able to compile something for win32...

By the way, also from q3radiant documentation it looks like fog does not work well with things like moving brushes/doors...

Sure, real life and time (and compiling time) are the bigger problem in editing :P
Fog also work bad with curved polygons and water.

The system i can suggest is to divide the map and connect the pieces with teleporter (not portals).
.....or maybe you can caulk everything you can, but the map is very large and this is the big problem.

;)


Title: Re: [WIP] OpenArena Community Mappack - Volume 1 - BETA 3
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 29, 2013, 11:31:54 am