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OpenArena Contributions => Maps => Topic started by: Akom74 on August 16, 2013, 02:55:41 pm



Title: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 16, 2013, 02:55:41 pm
-- NEW WORK IN PROGRESS --

OA_Cargo


(Screenshots are  NOT  indicative and may be change from the final version)

(http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0021.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1777&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0022.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1778&u=13337040)  (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0023.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1779&u=13337040)  (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0024.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1780&u=13337040)

This map was builded listening at this:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Je3hc5SPLDU

 ;D ;D ;D







Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: jangroothuijse on August 16, 2013, 03:49:57 pm
I love the idea, but you should definitely try to scramble the containers abit, even putting them on eachother

Maybe a bit of inspiration from this shot:
(http://www.universalcargo.com/Portals/57382/images/container-ship-san-francisco_0.jpg)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 16, 2013, 04:14:24 pm
Thank you for the suggestion  ;D
...but we have to play this map on the ship, if i fill the ship with containers we can't move  :P

Anyway i'll make something......
.....soon more screenshots..

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 16, 2013, 04:20:12 pm
Here're some other inspirations:

DM-KGalleon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-PZlfczYM) from Unreal Tournament
DM-KBarge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnit3yP40yI) from Unreal Tournament III
Derelict (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox5doBkx8vQ) from Duke Nukem Atomic Edition

I can't think of other levels inspired by galleons or cargo ships...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: fromhell on August 16, 2013, 06:12:24 pm
there's also a nice cargo map in Black Ops II to draw inspiration from...


BUT OMG CALL OF DUTY EVIL


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 17, 2013, 09:52:13 am
Happy News guys !!  ;D

(http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0025.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1781&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0026.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1782&u=13337040)  (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0027.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1783&u=13337040)  (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0028.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1784&u=13337040)  (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0029.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1785&u=13337040)

Updates:

1) On a side of the ship, i've builded a BIG coreography (not playable).
2) On the other side there's a big wall with an inside store with cranes.
3) Added some containers.
4) Added cranes in the docks.
5) Added AAS file to roam with the BOTs.
6) The water is a big pendulum.
7) Added some items to make the BOTs roam.

Knowed issues:

1) Strangely, BOTs enter in the water but die in there, i've inserted a couple of jumppad for each side of the dock with an entity "bot_roam" in the jumppad, but there is no interest from the bot to escape from the water, ??? .
2) Thw pendulum water have a strange effect when you are in there, tell me if it's a big issue.
3) The skybox is just black.
4) The map have no music and no sound.

Tell me if you find somthing else.

Here is the download link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl
(Beta version)

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Bane on August 17, 2013, 05:30:13 pm
Hi ,if you are looking for a good cargo type map for inspiration there is one call Hibernia, it is an oil rig type of map but has a good cargo / freight  container part off to one side .


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 18, 2013, 05:40:27 am
Hi ,if you are looking for a good cargo type map for inspiration there is one call Hibernia, it is an oil rig type of map but has a good cargo / freight  container part off to one side .

Hi, thanks but can you give more ? I mean, a link to follow or an image ?

What about this map ? Do you like it ?

Someone else ?  :P

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 18, 2013, 06:16:10 am
http://lvlworld.com/review/id:1840


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 18, 2013, 06:34:15 am
http://lvlworld.com/review/id:1840

Thanks Neon_Knight.

This Hibernia map is amazing !!  ;D
Never seen it before, but i'm glad to see it, unfortunately there's nothing GPLv2'd, or not ?
I like the Helicopter :P ...the mapper have to make a lot of try to align the textures.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 18, 2013, 06:59:20 am
The readme (http://lvlworld.com/readme/id:1840) forbids commercial exploitation (one of the four freedoms of GPLv2) and derivatives (another of the freedoms), plus there's no source (required for freedoms 2 and 4), and it states that there's a lot of resources which were copied from somewhere else, so no, nothing GPL there...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 18, 2013, 07:32:07 am
Well, took a quick look at it. Shows a lot of promise.

Since just praises won't help you in anything, here's my constructive criticism:

- The map is pretty horizontal. Some areas could only be reached by rocketjumping, and have no reward for doing so. What about adding some jumppads in the ship to reach the cargo tops, make the port areas playable (perhaps with bridges connecting both the ship and the ports) and raising the water level and the ship? That should help imrove the gameplay on the map. There's also a lot of cover in the port as well. OFC you should add more weapons as well.
- For the sky, you might create a skybox (http://www.urbanterror.info/forums/topic/11389-3d-skybox-portalsky-skybox/) and enclose the ship's area with gates and a port's extension.
- The water could be made deadly, currently there's no reason to swim, except to reach those jumppads. Or, make it swimmable, and add something below the ship, such as an entrance (remember AS-Frigate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mMkjsBA4uE) from Unreal Tournament, where you could enter to the ship from it's bottom, something like that).

Those were my $0.02 for now.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 18, 2013, 10:11:16 am
Well, took a quick look at it. Shows a lot of promise.

Since just praises won't help you in anything, here's my constructive criticism:

- The map is pretty horizontal. Some areas could only be reached by rocketjumping, and have no reward for doing so. What about adding some jumppads in the ship to reach the cargo tops, make the port areas playable (perhaps with bridges connecting both the ship and the ports) and raising the water level and the ship? That should help imrove the gameplay on the map. There's also a lot of cover in the port as well. OFC you should add more weapons as well.
- For the sky, you might create a skybox (http://www.urbanterror.info/forums/topic/11389-3d-skybox-portalsky-skybox/) and enclose the ship's area with gates and a port's extension.
- The water could be made deadly, currently there's no reason to swim, except to reach those jumppads. Or, make it swimmable, and add something below the ship, such as an entrance (remember AS-Frigate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mMkjsBA4uE) from Unreal Tournament, where you could enter to the ship from it's bottom, something like that).

Those were my $0.02 for now.

Thanks for your feedback, i'll change something, but i don't think i'm able to do that kind of skybox (for now :P ).
The jumppads are here to make the bots roam, but it doesent work.....
Yes, i remember AS-Frigate  ;D

Mmmm, maybe i can make the port playable...... stay tuned....

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 18, 2013, 10:22:19 am
Remember that my main worry is that the level isn't vertical enough. :P


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 20, 2013, 02:49:31 am
Quickly tested oa_cargo map.

Nice. :) Some suggestions:
- Some jumppads to get on the containers would be welcome.
- What about an opened container, with something inside?
- What about making the docks playable (reachable)?
- The jump-pads in the water make you splat your face against a container, and then fall on the floor. Maybe it may be tweaked some way, to make it nicer.
- What about a way to get on the tower of the ship? Maybe a jump-pad, or maybe through stairs inside or outside the tower?
- What's the "strange effect" you said with water? I noticed that at moments it's difficult to put your head outside of it. Possible workarounds include for example teleporting somewhere else who falls in the water.

Questions:
- Where did you find those container textures? Nice!
- Does someone know what that texture Akom placed under items was originally intended for? I've just seen them used for jump-pads in ps7ctf (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4635.0) map...

PS: That Hibernia map looks outstanding (it's really worth a praise), but maybe it's not optimal for Q3 gameplay. I feel there are too few weapons around, some rooms are too small, and I can't understand how in the readme they can say it's for tourney, too (playing with 5 bots, I've had a lot of time before meeting someone).


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on August 20, 2013, 11:03:38 am
It keeps me wondering why only akom74 seems to make that much maps and also releasing them on the forum...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 20, 2013, 11:12:00 am
Well, asset creation requires a LOT of patience, something which isn't easy to find nowadays. And maps aren't exempt of this.

I had that mapping spree once I've learnt how to make maps. (There's the tons of am_ maps you see on OA and beyond :P) I remember I was releasing a map or version per day once I've learnt how to use the editor. But then stopped or slowed the pace.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 20, 2013, 02:43:36 pm
Quickly tested oa_cargo map.

Nice. :) Some suggestions:
- Some jumppads to get on the containers would be welcome.
- What about an opened container, with something inside?
- What about making the docks playable (reachable)?
- The jump-pads in the water make you splat your face against a container, and then fall on the floor. Maybe it may be tweaked some way, to make it nicer.
- What about a way to get on the tower of the ship? Maybe a jump-pad, or maybe through stairs inside or outside the tower?
- What's the "strange effect" you said with water? I noticed that at moments it's difficult to put your head outside of it. Possible workarounds include for example teleporting somewhere else who falls in the water.

Soon a new version with some changes will appear....stay tuned, thanks for suggestions.
Unfortunately with big maps, compiling process give me error calculating the VIS stage, but seems that NETradiant can compile the VIS and theorically all will be fine (i hope).

Questions:
- Where did you find those container textures? Nice!
- Does someone know what that texture Akom placed under items was originally intended for? I've just seen them used for jump-pads in ps7ctf (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4635.0) map...

Answers:

- Those textures are from UFOAI (GPL'd)
- The texture above the items is original from OA and it's a Light :P

Quote from: Suicizer
It keeps me wondering why only akom74 seems to make that much maps and also releasing them on the forum...

It's because i've "nothing to do" at home :P I'm in summer vacation from my work.
Next week i restart work and my time will "disappear" :P :D

Quote from: Neon_Knight
Well, asset creation requires a LOT of patience, something which isn't easy to find nowadays. And maps aren't exempt of this.

I had that mapping spree once I've learnt how to make maps. (There's the tons of am_ maps you see on OA and beyond  :P) I remember I was releasing a map or version per day once I've learnt how to use the editor. But then stopped or slowed the pace.

Yes, you're right, but i'm mapping for Q3A from 2003 (and i'm not very sure, maybe more than 10 years). In the past i have leave the mapping stuff, but i restart to complete some old maps and the "MOD" Flagraiders, thanks to Gig ...XD...

Now i'm here with all the OA stuff and all damned GPLv2 stuff :P :P :D   lol !!

Seriously, i hope to give all i can for the community of OA.
I'm not the best, but i try to do something :D

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 20, 2013, 02:56:59 pm
Don't worry, Akom, as I've told you, you and Gig have already done way more for OA than a lot of the so-called "OA saviors/guardians" who claim to be the best of the community, but the only big thing they have is their ego. =)

About GPLv2, it's only until you get used to it. The main thing for GPLv2 is that it allows maintenance, expansion, or whatever, even in the absence of the original creator, hence why you can take OA's assets (maps, code, models, textures, etc) and see how they're made, what can be done to fix/improve them, etc.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 20, 2013, 03:14:06 pm
Don't worry, Akom, as I've told you, you and Gig have already done way more for OA than a lot of the so-called "OA saviors/guardians" who claim to be the best of the community, but the only big thing they have is their ego. =)

About GPLv2, it's only until you get used to it. The main thing for GPLv2 is that it allows maintenance, expansion, or whatever, even in the absence of the original creator, hence why you can take OA's assets (maps, code, models, textures, etc) and see how they're made, what can be done to fix/improve them, etc.

Thanks Noen_Knight :D

@Suicizer: as you can see from many of my posts, i'm an old man that jokes :P i've nothing against anyone, and all suggestion are welcome. I think you are a player, aren't you ? Well, waiting for Adriano, can you  tell me anything about playability and suggest me how about improve it ? I mean, items placement, hiding spot or other thing that now i don't remember...

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 20, 2013, 06:45:21 pm
- Those textures are from UFOAI (GPL'd)
- The texture above the items is original from OA and it's a Light :P
UH-OH!
Care to explain which assets exactly have you took?


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 20, 2013, 11:46:08 pm
- Those textures are from UFOAI (GPL'd)
- The texture above the items is original from OA and it's a Light :P
UH-OH!
Care to explain which assets exactly have you took?

Don't worry, here is the official download page (if you want):
Code:
http://ufoai.org/wiki/Download

ALL, sources .map file, textures and other stuff was released under GNU General Public License 2.0 or later. That's mean no problem i think. Maybe Fromhell can be more clear.
....or maybe i've don' understand what you mean :P :P....XD....

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on August 21, 2013, 04:39:38 am
Don't worry, Akom, as I've told you, you and Gig have already done way more for OA than a lot of the so-called "OA saviors/guardians" who claim to be the best of the community, but the only big thing they have is their ego. =)

About GPLv2, it's only until you get used to it. The main thing for GPLv2 is that it allows maintenance, expansion, or whatever, even in the absence of the original creator, hence why you can take OA's assets (maps, code, models, textures, etc) and see how they're made, what can be done to fix/improve them, etc.

Thanks Noen_Knight :D

@Suicizer: as you can see from many of my posts, i'm an old man that jokes :P i've nothing against anyone, and all suggestion are welcome. I think you are a player, aren't you ? Well, waiting for Adriano, can you  tell me anything about playability and suggest me how about improve it ? I mean, items placement, hiding spot or other thing that now i don't remember...

;)

@Akom74,
I certainly are an OA/QuakeLive player, but learned a lot of mapping skills on Sauerbraten (which basically uses a pretty Quakish layout and gameplay also). I'm just too lazy to get involved in mapping programs like gtkradiant (which radiant is actually the best/easiest to use of all radiants?). Maybe I'm too much spoiled to have the mapping program integrated in the game itself =S (would be totally awesome if OA also had this).
Anyway, I'm definetly an OA savior (as doing nothing more than commenting), but still are in to do reviews on maps and so (as I do for years within the Sauerbraten community). You certainly have a quite good source of  inspiration which I respect as you don't see that quite often.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 21, 2013, 05:16:48 am
Don't worry, Akom, as I've told you, you and Gig have already done way more for OA than a lot of the so-called "OA saviors/guardians" who claim to be the best of the community, but the only big thing they have is their ego. =)

About GPLv2, it's only until you get used to it. The main thing for GPLv2 is that it allows maintenance, expansion, or whatever, even in the absence of the original creator, hence why you can take OA's assets (maps, code, models, textures, etc) and see how they're made, what can be done to fix/improve them, etc.

Thanks Noen_Knight :D

@Suicizer: as you can see from many of my posts, i'm an old man that jokes :P i've nothing against anyone, and all suggestion are welcome. I think you are a player, aren't you ? Well, waiting for Adriano, can you  tell me anything about playability and suggest me how about improve it ? I mean, items placement, hiding spot or other thing that now i don't remember...

;)

@Akom74,
I certainly are an OA/QuakeLive player, but learned a lot of mapping skills on Sauerbraten (which basically uses a pretty Quakish layout and gameplay also). I'm just too lazy to get involved in mapping programs like gtkradiant (which radiant is actually the best/easiest to use of all radiants?). Maybe I'm too much spoiled to have the mapping program integrated in the game itself =S (would be totally awesome if OA also had this).
Anyway, I'm definetly an OA savior (as doing nothing more than commenting), but still are in to do reviews on maps and so (as I do for years within the Sauerbraten community). You certainly have a quite good source of  inspiration which I respect as you don't see that quite often.

Thank you Suicizer, i agree with you. Maybe fromhell can insert an editor (more powerful) in OA3 ? @fromhell: just asking :P

I've watched Sauerbraten and i think you mean Cube2:Sauerbraten, am i right ?
However, i like it.

But you don't answered to me, about the playability i mean.
Soon (very soon)  i place here a new version of the map and i like to have more comments about the playability and how increase it.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 21, 2013, 06:01:55 am
What? A map editor integrated directly into the game? I'm not Fromhell or Sago007, but however I think that's really impractical, for various reasons.
- Would require A LOT of time: working on that would mean having no time for other aspects of development of the game
- There are already map editors (*Radiant) programs... Why another one?
- IIRC, Fromhell wants to make OA3 user interface more friendly also for devices that do not use a mouse. How to map without a mouse?
- Fromhell hypotized some kind of character customization (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4768.0), but of course not an "integrated Blender". At the same way, one might hypotize some way to alter existing maps (e.g. the already supported "disable_" and "replace_" hidden CVARs, to prevent all the items of a certain kind from spawning in the map, or replacing them with something else)... but a complete map editor inside the game really seems to much to me.
- One automatic map generation tool, maybe? Where you just select an approx map size, map theme, how many jump-pads, how many teleports, how many weapons and bonuses, and it automatically/randomly creates a .map file, that you can later fine-tune with a standard .map editor? That would be an huge work anyway, and probably it would better exist as an external tool.
- A simplified map editor for beginners, where you have a simple interface with a series of pre-defined objects that you can place in a grid (like Stunts - 4D Sports Driving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunts_%28video_game%29) track editor)? Nice... that may introduce new people to mapping... but again, I think that would be too much work for our small number of developers. Maybe someone may take the idea and create it as an external tool or as a mod... However, I don't think the problem of OpenArena is the lack of third-party maps to play on...
To sum up, I don't see it as an easy to implement or necessary feature. But I repeat, I'm not Fromhell or Sago.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on August 21, 2013, 07:39:21 am
Creating new map editor is a huge piece of work indeed, however automatic map generation tool - not so much.
UfoAI for example has a "random map assembly" system, where the map is assembled from pre-rendered map pieces on the fly (typically between 4 and 16 map pieces).
Of course the lighting at the seams isn't that natural, but it's okay for UfoAI, with it's bird's eye camera, also they design map pieces in such a way that seams are at the same height and have the same light intensity at the borders, so they not very noticeable. For OA though it will be very well visible, because you'll be looking at the seams from the ground level.
I believe it's still possible (not very hard) to create a tool which will split a .map file from pre-assembled square pieces, you'll have to compile it to .BSP/.AAS though.
Also, it will be difficult to create maps which have some vertical variety, not just one big flat floor with some random walls.

The easiest we can probably do is take Akom's OA_Gateway, and randomize teleporter targets on the fly  ;D

Screenshots of UfoAI map tiles (http://ufoai.org/wiki/Category:Screenshots_RMA_Tiles), screenshots of assembled maps (http://ufoai.org/wiki/Media/Map_screenshots)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on August 21, 2013, 10:24:00 am
What? A map editor integrated directly into the game? I'm not Fromhell or Sago007, but however I think that's really impractical, for various reasons.
- Would require A LOT of time: working on that would mean having no time for other aspects of development of the game
- There are already map editors (*Radiant) programs... Why another one?
- IIRC, Fromhell wants to make OA3 user interface more friendly also for devices that do not use a mouse.y How to map without a mouse?
- Fromhell hypotized some kind of character customization (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4768.0), but of course not an "integrated Blender". At the same way, one might hypotize some way to alter existing maps (e.g. the already supported "disable_" and "replace_" hidden CVARs, to prevent all the items of a certain kind from spawning in the map, or replacing them with something else)... but a complete map editor inside the game really seems to much to me.
- One automatic map generation tool, maybe? Where you just select an approx map size, map theme, how many jump-pads, how many teleports, how many weapons and bonuses, and it automatically/randomly creates a .map file, that you can later fine-tune with a standard .map editor? That would be an huge work anyway, and probably it would better exist as an external tool.
- A simplified map editor for beginners, where you have a simple interface with a series of pre-defined objects that you can place in a grid (like Stunts - 4D Sports Driving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stunts_%28video_game%29) track editor)? Nice... that may introduce new people to mapping... but again, I think that would be too much work for our small number of developers. Maybe someone may take the idea and create it as an external tool or as a mod... However, I don't think the problem of OpenArena is the lack of third-party maps to play on...
To sum up, I don't see it as an easy to implement or necessary feature. But I repeat, I'm not Fromhell or Sago.

The benefits of an integrated map editor is that you can play directly on the map without the need to port it.
You can also map with several people editing on just 1 map real-time. This is actually a very community supportive feature as a lot of map-editing clans on Sauerbraten prove so (which results in a playing and editing community that both need each other to remain while still operating individuallyoften).
Anyway, my first comment today wasn't meant to be feature request related.
@Akom74,
Make sure there is more depth in the layout, like letting the players move into the machinery room (maybe even from outside like a hole, as if the ship is about to sink?), Then you coukd let them come back to the main surface of the ship again via the control room.
The cargo loads are putted to symmetrical to me. Can't you fill  1 or 2 paths with another load or an atribute to get on top of the cargo.
 


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 21, 2013, 02:34:51 pm
@Akom74,
Make sure there is more depth in the layout, like letting the players move into the machinery room (maybe even from outside like a hole, as if the ship is about to sink?), Then you coukd let them come back to the main surface of the ship again via the control room.
The cargo loads are putted to symmetrical to me. Can't you fill  1 or 2 paths with another load or an atribute to get on top of the cargo.

Thanks for suggestions, but the bottom of the ship is too tiny for complicated passages, and the structure is triangular. In the next release i will insert the .map file and you will see.
Today i've worked a lot with brushes and i'm searching for an appropriate jumppad, but i think i made it myself :P
My idea is to leave the ship as it is, and work at the docks to place some buildings and passages. Unfortunately my inspiration is a bit over in this days.... :(
In the ship i've inserted only the passage from the bottom as suggested by Neon_Knight, but the space is small.

Tomorrow (italian time) i think to give you (all) a new version vith the latest changes.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on August 21, 2013, 03:08:40 pm
I've tried this map and it's good. But I really want to go to that pier with crane, but cannot reach it even with a rocket jump.
Could you please tilt the ship floor 10-15 degrees to the side, so it won't be so flat? Or even add a slow waves that tilt the ship from side to side? I guess it's impossible though.Also, I would like some way to reach top of crates without rocket jump. And a passage to the captain deck/crane tower. And maybe a rope or chain to the pier, which you can walk to reach the pier.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 21, 2013, 03:15:23 pm
I've tried this map and it's good. But I really want to go to that pier with crane, but cannot reach it even with a rocket jump.
Could you please tilt the ship floor 10-15 degrees to the side, so it won't be so flat? Or even add a slow waves that tilt the ship from side to side? I guess it's impossible though.Also, I would like some way to reach top of crates without rocket jump. And a passage to the captain deck/crane tower. And maybe a rope or chain to the pier, which you can walk to reach the pier.

Ehi, calm down :P  ;D ;D
There's too much things that it's impossible to do with Radiant.
In the next version the docks are playable and you can go upside the crane :D
You can also go upside the captain tower and grab a railgun and snipe everyone. A railgun it's also over the big crane.

....stay tuned.... :P

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 22, 2013, 12:46:38 am
You can also go upside the captain tower and grab a railgun and snipe everyone. A railgun it's also over the big crane.
I'm not sure it's a nice idea for gameplay, to place the railgun spawning directly in the camping spot. Risk of Q3CTF4-like promblems...
Possible solutions include placing the railgun not exactly there, to force the camper to leave the camping spot (at least for a short time) when he requires ammo.... or placing a quick way to reach that camping spot (that may be accessed by two different ways?) by passing at the back of the camper (if he's aiming at the big part of the map, he should not be able to also protect the way to reach him).


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 22, 2013, 05:22:29 am
If there's a lot of place to get cover, and enough room to move, a Railgun in that spot shouldn't hurt the gameplay to much.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 22, 2013, 08:27:50 am
UPDATE !!

(http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0030.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1787&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0031.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1788&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0032.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1789&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0033.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1790&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0034.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1791&u=13337040)

Here is the Download Link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

Updates:

1) Added 8 jumppad to leave the ship e jump to the docks and viceversa..
2) Now BOTs roam all the map.
3) Builded a new section near the crane.
4) Now you can go at the top of the captain tower.
5) Modified the ship with a hole and an higher part.
6) One container now is ampty, but with the quad :P
7) Other minor stuff :D

Know Issues:

1) The sky is always black (i have to change it...)
2) Now the map seem a big box, i don't know how change it....... i've to think at something...
3) .....don't know, maybe other things but now i don't remember...

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on August 22, 2013, 09:23:31 am
You don't really need to surround it with walls, I would prefer transparent noclip region, and just seeing the sky instead of walls, even if it is black.
The map is big, so it does not look weird that you cannot go past the border.
Or, alternately, going past the border will make you fall to death, but you'll have a chance to see an elephants, whales and turtle below ;) .


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 22, 2013, 09:42:59 am
You don't really need to surround it with walls, I would prefer transparent noclip region, and just seeing the sky instead of walls, even if it is black.
The map is big, so it does not look weird that you cannot go past the border.
Or, alternately, going past the border will make you fall to death, but you'll have a chance to see an elephants, whales and turtle below ;) .

Maybe you're right, i'll try to remove the big walls and place some borders.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 22, 2013, 10:15:50 am
Tried.. nice!  :)

Things I can suggest:
1) You may keep the outer walls if you wish... just place something that seems a big door in front (or behind the back? Maybe better in front) of the ship (a theorical way to exit the dock to reach the sea).

2) When you are in the water, you have no bonuses and one way out only. And you are a very easy target! Hence:
2.1) What about placing a "speed" powerup (I don't know if that affects swimming speed, but probably yes) in the water?
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
2.3) What about placing some small "service ramps" that, from the docks, reach the water? To have more ways to get out of the water...

3) What about making some machinery in the dock moving? Making the robot move, and/or making the crane moving a container up and down (or having a container swinging as a pendolum, as in the Hibernia map)?

4) What about allowing to pass between some containers on the ship, like in the previous version? Not all of them, just some.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 22, 2013, 10:44:12 am
1) You may keep the outer walls if you wish... just place something that seems a big door in front (or behind the back? Maybe better in front) of the ship (a theorical way to exit the dock to reach the sea).

I will do something, stay tuned.....  :P

Quote from: Gig
2) When you are in the water, you have no bonuses and one way out only. And you are a very easy target! Hence:

Yes, you are right. I forgot to place some items in the water, maybe a power suite, the water is so big area, many times you get hurted before you can go outside

Quote from: Gig
2.1) What about placing a "speed" powerup (I don't know if that affects swimming speed, but probably yes) in the water?

Don't know, but i think that with the speed powerup the speed increase even in the water....

Quote from: Gig
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.

The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.

Quote from: Gig
2.3) What about placing some small "service ramps" that, from the docks, reach the water? To have more ways to get out of the water...

This is possible, i will see what to do.

Quote from: Gig
3) What about making some machinery in the dock moving? Making the robot move, and/or making the crane moving a container up and down (or having a container swinging as a pendolum, as in the Hibernia map)?

Unfortunately the VIS don't work and i have to compile the map without it, but the relight process mix the entity and place it (all) at the center of the map. The train work because it start at the center and follow its path, as you can see there's no door and no rotating objects.
(same problem with oa_gateway (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4682.msg48015#msg48015))

Quote from: Gig
4) What about allowing to pass between some containers on the ship, like in the previous version? Not all of them, just some.

I will.

@ALL: In this release you can find in the sources folder, the original .map file, there is an error, fixed now. (i haven't see it before the release, sorry.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 22, 2013, 11:03:50 am
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.
If you think it's necessary the water in the pit inside the ship to be lower than than the rest of the water....
... however, that seems against communaticating vases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicating_vessels)... isn't it?


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 22, 2013, 11:40:05 am
2.2) What about adding fog parameters to the water? If the water brush is not moving, is done with a single brush and has not even deformvertexes parameter, that should work correctly. This may mean you would have to make the level of the water inside the ship at the same level it is outside the ship (I can guess that would have sense, though), probably something in the middle between the current two different heights. Just an idea to make it a little more difficult to see you when you are in the water.
The water is builded with 5 brushes, caulked at the intersections, to allow to place the lower part in the hole of the ship. I don't think to give it a fog parameter.
If you think it's necessary the water in the pit inside the ship to be lower than than the rest of the water....
... however, that seems against communaticating vases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communicating_vessels)... isn't it?

No communaticating vases, it's not real this  Q3A/OA physic  :P
However, look at the -map file in the editor and you will see :D :D

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 22, 2013, 03:11:49 pm
Quick look at the newer version again.

Well, the map is progressing. It's way more interesting than the past version, indeed. And it grew big.

Remember that every strong area (camping areas, for example) should have a countermeasure (and if possible, many ways to enter, not just one) to keep the map balanced. Talking about camping, the tower is good and well, but there isn't much place to get cover once someone gets to the top. Right now as the map it is, you pick the Railgun, run to the tower and start shooting to get free cheap frags. This becomes worse in Instagib mode: in the absence of every weapon sans the Railgun, with the lack of splash damage weapons, hiding/cover places become more important, and IG is already a very played mode in OA.

A possible solution for this in All Weapons is to place a Nailgun right at the bottom of the tower (it's already protected from the camper's view) and replace that jumppad with a teleport. It might be quicker to reach to the top, but it's less predictable for the camper to notice it. The Nailgun then can be used (and it's more effective in this than the Shotgun) to neutralize the camper in question. For Instagib you might want to place a func_static door blocking the entrance to the tower's top, so such position can't be abused.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 22, 2013, 03:36:12 pm
I hate campers !!!  ;D ;D

I'll modify the map as you suggested, and many more little changes......
......stay tuned.....

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Bane on August 22, 2013, 06:51:37 pm
Hi
Thought I would pop back in with an idea how about something like a big skull island (see pic below ) as a kind of background image with some red mist like the ship got lost in the Bermuda triangle


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 23, 2013, 02:18:08 am
Akom, for your compiling tests... what about trying Q3Map2Build tool?

I've just re-packaged it, adding required DLL files and BSPC, that were missing in the original package (http://www.moddb.com/groups/radiant-mapping/downloads/q3map2build-1025-by-dlb).

http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/tools/q3map2build1_0_25_withDLL_BSPC.zip

I also added a readme file about the re-packaging.

Let me know if that works.  :)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 23, 2013, 03:05:27 am
Akom, for your compiling tests... what about trying Q3Map2Build tool?

I've just re-packaged it, adding required DLL files and BSPC, that were missing in the original package (http://www.moddb.com/groups/radiant-mapping/downloads/q3map2build-1025-by-dlb).

http://digilander.iol.it/flagraiders/files/tools/q3map2build1_0_25_withDLL_BSPC.zip

I also added a readme file about the re-packaging.

Let me know if that works.  :)

Thanks Gig, but it gives me an error, it say that zlib1.dll was missing... :(


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 23, 2013, 03:23:04 am
Ooops, it looks like I missed it. Zip updated, try downloading it again now.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 23, 2013, 03:30:34 am
Ooops, it looks like I missed it. Zip updated, try downloading it again now.

Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
It work, but gives me an error, MAX_VISIBILITY_EXCEEDED.

:(


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 23, 2013, 03:45:52 am
Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
How?
I'd like to know if the package I did this time works out-of-the-box...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 23, 2013, 04:19:15 am
Thanks again, i've solved searching on the internet.
How?
I'd like to know if the package I did this time works out-of-the-box...

Yes, it work, i've download the upgraded version, but your zlib1.dll is old than mine.
;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on September 19, 2013, 12:27:17 pm
Update !  ;D

Here is the newest version, take a look and play with BOTs.

(http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0053.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1814&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0054.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1815&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0055.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1816&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0056.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1817&u=13337040)   (http://i73.servimg.com/u/f73/13/33/70/40/th/shot0057.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1818&u=13337040)

Download Link 7,92 MB (8.314.880 byte):
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

Until the opening of the official Thread of OACMP Volume 2, this is my last version of this map.

However, comments are welcome  :P

EDIT: Solved a script error (my bad - Thanks Gig). Now you can see the good sky.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on September 20, 2013, 12:31:35 am
Uhm... I see a black sky (it looks like it does conflict with some other sky shader... from oacmp maybe?).

Apart that, the map is nice... maybe some weapons are not easy to find... but maybe it's just time to learn their locations. However, you may consider adding some more weapons (but no more railguns).



Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on September 20, 2013, 09:56:21 am
The map still feels quite flat, but I don't think that's easily solved with such theme. In overall, it's a nice map so far.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on September 21, 2013, 01:46:37 am
Thank You Gig and Suicizer, i've updated the map in the box server and now you will see the appropriate sky.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on September 22, 2013, 05:18:11 am
Thank You Gig and Suicizer, i've updated the map in the box server and now you will see the appropriate sky.

;)

Whoops, I forgot to tell; the jumppads are positioned quite tight to it's platform (you jump over the entity pretty easy). Maybe could use another view and fixup?


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on September 22, 2013, 06:02:40 am
Thank You Gig and Suicizer, i've updated the map in the box server and now you will see the appropriate sky.

;)

Whoops, I forgot to tell; the jumppads are positioned quite tight to it's platform (you jump over the entity pretty easy). Maybe could use another view and fixup?

Sorry, i haven't understand what you mean...... i have to move the trigger higher ?

Can you show me a screeshot ?  :P
.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on September 22, 2013, 06:47:57 am

Quote

Whoops, I forgot to tell; the jumppads are positioned quite tight to it's platform (you jump over the entity pretty easy). Maybe could use another view and fixup?

Sorry, i haven't understand what you mean...... i have to move the trigger higher ?

Can you show me a screeshot ?  :P
.
[/quote]

Can't show you a screenshot as I don't know how jumppads are displayed in a radiant (they are just a hollow cube with green coloured rims in Cube Engine 2, like all entities like playerstarts, weapons, teleports, sounds and mapmodels).
I mean you should raise and wide the trigger a bit yes.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on September 22, 2013, 11:59:20 am
Actual jumppads are invisible "trigger brushes", not the same kind of entity used for weapons or spawn point. You create a brush of any shape and size, apply the "trigger" shader (texture) to it... then use the entity properties window to set it as "trigger_push" instead of "worldspawn". Then you make it point to (link using "target" and "targetname" keys) a target_position entity (that is just a point represented by a small cube, that you place at the highest point of the jump).

I don't remember now, maybe it is also possible to add a trigger in a different way, that creates a triger brush of a predefined size in less steps. But I'm writing from cell phone and I can't check now.

Then, jumppads are invisible brushes that usually float a few units above the ground: on the ground there is the jumppad texture on a separate (standard) brush.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on September 22, 2013, 03:27:33 pm
Good, awesome, brilliant map.
Railgun dominates here, and there are plenty of locations to get it.
There are still too little items, especially health and armor shards. The map is big, so there should be plenty.
The jump rails are indeed a bit stiff, you have to walk to the very tip of the rail to activate it.
Underwater area is nice, and especially ironic is the megahealth, because I've drowned and lost exactly 100 health until I've got to the surface. Next time I'll try to swim to the hole under ship.

Fig.1. I like view of open skies. Also, what a nice camp spot. Wait, that's not a railgun? Oh cruel world.
Fig.2. That big gray wall looks worse than a clear sky, don't you agree?
Fig.3. I would like to jump on this building, but I can't, crates are too low.
Fig.4. This side of dock does not have railgun, the other side and the ship have it. Unfair?


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on September 22, 2013, 03:35:32 pm
Fig.5. I want to jump on these crates, but I can't, that makes me sad (and rocketjumping on cellphone makes me dead).
Fig.6. I've found a bug, yay! It's in the hangar, where you can jump to the dock crane.
Fig.7. I would like to jump on top of these crates, but I can't. Also, they are empty and sad, a health or ammo on top would make them happy.
Fig.8. It moves, awesome! I even got to ride on it, but that was short, because a bot got envious and killed me.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on September 23, 2013, 12:26:28 am
Also downloading the current version, I still saw black sky. Then I looked into the pk3 and found out there is a akom_sky2.shader file that is also in oa_gateway.pk3. After removing oa_gateway.pk3, the sky in oa_cargo showed up correctly.  :)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on September 23, 2013, 10:20:15 am
Thanks Pelya for reporting the bug (i've never noticed  ???), i think now is fixed in the version on my pc.
Thank you also for comments and suggestions, i think i have to edit the map, but no until OACMP Volume 2 topic is opened.

Things to do:

1) Add another railgun on the other side of the docks.
2) Add some boxes for jump on some containers and add some items on them.
3) Modify one part of the docks for vertical fight as Suicizer and Neon_knight suggest me.
4) Edit the trigger_push (jumppad) and enlarge them.
5) Add More containers and "bridges" to improve vertical reachability.
6) Move the railgun and switch it with the plasmagun t the other dock like Torreng suggested.
7) Fix some brush bugs founded by Pelya and Torreng (where is it exactly ?).


@Gig: Unfortunately the shader file is the same because i want to release all my latest maps for OACMP Volume 2. When the pack will be released, the shader file will be only one, and all contrasts will be eliminated (i hope :P ).

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on September 23, 2013, 10:57:35 am
For the cargoes (?) you might want to add wood/metal bars or other containers, acting like "bridges" between the container piles. These containers might also be walkable on the top.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: adriano on October 25, 2013, 10:55:54 am
Nice cargo theme. I think it is nicer to look at it, as to play on it... It is nice that you already brought some dynamic in it with the moving thing. Further I would like to see more... for example you can build a "control room" with monitors and much buttons...and add a trigger on a big button that activates or do something on the cargo (don't ask me what xD).


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: torreng on October 27, 2013, 04:54:13 am
Nice, big map with lots of things going on everywhere. Details are beautiful. Obviously huge amount of work gotten into it, and it's really promising. Well done!

Here be my suggestions:

- You may achieve the vertical fights you desire with making those containers constitute another level. As you mentioned, vertical reachability around containers (maybe adding even more containers) would really spice up the fight. Try to extend the "containers" section of the map to crane; I mean, paths from top of the containers to crane's second level etc (with bridges Neon_Knight mentioned). Think about spanning that region with a half-level.

-
Quote
1) Add another railgun on the other side of the docks.
Instead of adding another, switch the one near the big gate with narrow-side plasma. 3+ RG's are too much, even for maps this big.

- Speaking of narrow-side, as a future work, you may think about scaling up that part. Maybe with an underground section...

- They way I found the "big gate" being hollow was getting through it from a small ledge (which are at both sides of the gate).
And,
Quote
Fig.6. I've found a bug, yay! It's in the hangar, where you can jump to the dock crane.
Same thing happens for the box seen just ahead, inside the hangar.

Keep up the good work!


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on November 04, 2013, 11:12:14 am
Updated the "things to do" list: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4825.msg48543#msg48543

Torreng, please, show me where exactly is the bug you have founded.

If anyone else found some similar bug, please tel me. Thanks  ;D

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: torreng on November 13, 2013, 01:58:50 pm
(http://i41.tinypic.com/29uobxu.png)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qmg048.png)

This is the latest version, isn't it? Or am I giving useless outdated feedback?

P.S: Sorry, I couldn't find the spoiler tag.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on November 13, 2013, 03:44:48 pm
Thanks, i've found it !
I will fix this bug in the next version.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on July 23, 2015, 08:47:18 am
Hi everyone :D

I'm here again after a lot of time to give you the chance to try the last version of this map.

I've added some brush work, add some entity, and fixed something else :P

I know there's some fix to add, but i want your feedback about this version.

(http://i.imgur.com/xdhNNMu.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/oPyY1AZ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/7iOYNSV.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/xYXCx1k.jpg)

Here is the Download link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

I hope you enjoy this map !

 ;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on July 24, 2015, 05:16:51 am
Quickly tried. Cool!  :)

I still have to try it with some actual fighting, but for the moment I can say:
- What about adding support for some extra gametype? Of course DDom and Dom... but maybe even CTF-like gamemodes may work... (Note: I don't know if the map should be listed for Elimination/LMS modes: there is a lot of room, so moving around rocket-jumping should be very nice, but in the other hand, there are many places to hide -which are not optimal for Elimination/LMS rules-... UPDATE: I just tried it in a 4vs4 Elimination, and found it funny! :))
- What about adding location names? Even if just "left dock", "right dock", "ship" and "water"...
- Look at the first screenshot: are feet of the bot buried in ground?
- Look at the second screenshot: there are some things (columns, containers, etc) around the external perimeter which have one side completly not illuminated.
- Look at the third screenshot: I can guess there should be a "glass texture" patch there (maybe the patch is already there, but is wrongly oriented?), like on the other side (looking from inside, it looks like there is no glass, but if you turn around the ship, you can see the glass in the window).
- Using slightly foggy water, maybe? Just an idea...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on July 24, 2015, 09:10:48 am
Thanks Gig for feedback.

I've edited the map and fixed those bugs.

Anyone else ? :P

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: fromhell on July 24, 2015, 11:00:17 pm
it's a little wide open :P and really favors bunnyhopping.


The sky could be better, like a new, more scattered sky shader, to bring a little more light and less blue all over the place.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on July 25, 2015, 05:22:18 am
it's a little wide open :P and really favors bunnyhopping.


The sky could be better, like a new, more scattered sky shader, to bring a little more light and less blue all over the place.

Fixed :D

(http://i.imgur.com/UXn1dQg.jpg)


@Gig: About naming places, first i want to be sure if the map was good or not, in a second time we can name every place :P :P

 ;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on July 25, 2015, 12:29:41 pm
What about adding the ability to get on  the roof of a couple of containers in the lateral docks (via jumppad, ramps or crates) to further improve vertical fighting?


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 05, 2015, 01:28:47 am
Hi everyone.

Here is the last version of the map with some fixes.

(http://i.imgur.com/QXXGP5O.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/caPfuvo.jpg)


The Download link is this:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

As you can see, i've improved a lot of things.

I've removed many brushes from the borders of the docks and add some ammobox.

Tell me if you like it.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Suicizer on August 05, 2015, 03:34:44 am
Looks awesome on the screenshots. I'll certainly check it out when I'm back from holiday (and oa_suicizer also).


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 05, 2015, 03:41:51 am
Quickly tried.
I like it, but I'm not completely sure about a few things:

- Removing those small pillars from the docks may have caused them look "less" like docks... What about keeping a few of them, maybe?
- Look at the first screenshot: what about making that floor reachable and with something on it (or else, removing the floor at all)?
- Look at the other screenshots: I would like very much the ability to get on the containers of this area (I already mentioned I would have liked some places to get on some more containers to improve vertical fighting), because then jumping from one to the other is funny (try it).


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 05, 2015, 04:03:29 am
A few more things:
- First screenshot: I can guess that side should not be completely black.
- Second screenshot: That black line looks like not being intentional.
- What about using some TA item? Just an idea...


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 06, 2015, 02:25:10 am
Looks awesome on the screenshots. I'll certainly check it out when I'm back from holiday (and oa_suicizer also).

Thanks, i'll wait your feedback on the two maps.

@Gig: Did you know when a source light is at the right of an object ? The other side it has to be dark (or black). I try to insert a minor light entity as possible, to give at the ambient-light a better effect, or maybe a lamp as a light source.

- fixed some bug, thanks Gig :)

Tell me if you notice something else.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 06, 2015, 05:05:22 am
@Gig: Did you know when a source light is at the right of an object ? The other side it has to be dark (or black).
One thing is being darker, another one is being totally black, especially in a well-illuminated room. ;)

Q3MAP2 compiler has got some options to make light "bounce" more or less, to bring some "reflected" light to places which do not see a light source directly.
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Fake_indirect_lighting
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Lighting
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Advanced_lighting


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 06, 2015, 07:35:17 am
Tell me if you notice something else.
Let's see...

1) First screenshot: for some reason, projectile weapons do pass through the walls of this area (strangely, hitscan wapons not).
2) First screenshot: maybe adding a second jumppad here may make a little less predictable the way one would use to return to the main bridge of the ship (although maybe most people would then use the one that would bring to the plasmagun?)?
2.1) Otherwise, one may add a playable "indoor" section inside the ship (lower bridge?), accessible through this area and through a second access which would bring them back to the main bridge or to the tower. Cargo ship may be used a little more, that way.  :)
3) Second screenshot: projectiles do pass through the shutter here.
4) Third screenshot: maybe the "corridor" of this side of the docks may be a little wider, to strafejump more freely? The other side looks a bit more "spacious". If that requires a lot of work, ignore it.
4.1) Also, I can guess you made it difficult to pass where there is the crane on purpose, to invite people to go to the area where there are "speed" and "portable medkit", right?
5) Fourth screenshot: what about adding there a ramp to get out of the water?
6) Random idea: there are some good looking shutters in this map. Some of them are closed, others are open.... the idea is "what about making one actually working?", in other words making one of them actually a door which opens when people approach or shoot at it. Q3 maps did use doors relatively often, OA ones much less, IIRC. But then, maybe it may be strange that one shutter "works" and the others stay still, so maybe this is a stupid idea... Maybe the working one may look different (different color and/or different size), to make it clear it's another kind of shutter.
7) Bots do not seem to be very interested in going to the red armor/personal teleporter platform.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 07, 2015, 02:51:46 am
I'm fixing something, maybe in a few hour i'll upload a new version of the map.

If you find something else, tell me and it will be fixed.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 07, 2015, 03:59:15 am
Uhm... there are some other boxes in the same room with a pitch black side...

And, but this is not a bug but an aesthetic choice... it looks like you decided to place a "base" under red and yellow armors. But the yellow armor on the ship (unlike other armors, on a container) does not have it.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 07, 2015, 10:41:21 am
Hi everyone :) :)

Here you can Download the latest version of OA_Cargo:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/ooxm4008dgywurw2xy201oyex47xf2r0

Some screenshots:

(http://i.imgur.com/HrQwTt1.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/scdNnd5.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/QOXL9J7.jpg)

Enjoy and tell me :)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 07, 2015, 12:45:09 pm
I don't think I will be able to test it before Monday,  but screens look good.

Gig from cell phone.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 08, 2015, 07:15:35 am
Given a quick try on Android phone.

Good, but a few things:
- Was it necessary to completely remove the crane?
- Why did you remove that yellow armor on the ship?
- Maybe the path which connects the two docks (behind the ship, where you just added ramps to get out of water) is too tight?
- I still miss the ability to get above the containers of the area where there are many.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 09, 2015, 12:55:58 pm
Given a quick try on Android phone.

Good, but a few things:
- Was it necessary to completely remove the crane?
- Why did you remove that yellow armor on the ship?
- Maybe the path which connects the two docks (behind the ship, where you just added ramps to get out of water) is too tight?
- I still miss the ability to get above the containers of the area where there are many.

- I've deleted the crane for better map-roaming.
- I can reinsert it, no problem.
- It can be enlarged, but i think it's not so necessary...
- For now, no way to jump above the containers.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 10, 2015, 12:44:36 am
- I've deleted the crane for better map-roaming.
That was nice looking... Moving it to another place or modifying its lower part to allow better passage (on its sides and/or below it like an arch) may have been feasible alternatives.
Quote
- I can reinsert it, no problem.
It's just that going up there requires some effort (unless you jump down from the tower), so having something useful there is good.
Quote
- It can be enlarged, but i think it's not so necessary...
I would do that, however decide yourself.
Quote
- For now, no way to jump above the containers.
Sad.  :(


:)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: pelya on August 12, 2015, 06:26:13 pm
I like how you replaced some walls with the sky, the map feels fresh and breezy (I think that was done few versions ago, but I did not test it for a long time).
The crane - I don't have an opinion, the map is okay both with and without it. But if you add it back, please make some way to climb it. Also it will make the wide pier a bit less campy, because currently it's huge open space where railgun dominates.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 13, 2015, 02:50:35 am
Hi everyone :)

Here is the last version of OA_Cargo.

(http://i.imgur.com/IZgrsUh.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/IbjsMmL.jpg)


And here is the Download link:
Code:
https://app.box.com/s/r7r7mhyy8rwcky3hasjl

- Reinserted the yellow armor
- Reinserted the crane, now it's moding !!
- Other minor things....

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Gig on August 13, 2015, 03:06:31 am
Quickly tried.
Nice, but the lower part of the moving container has got inconsistent light (wow a moving object is lit is due to its initial position).
Do you think that, for design harmony, you should add a basement under quad damage, or remove the one under speed?
Still missing you know what.  :)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on August 13, 2015, 11:43:37 am
Gig, don't forget that the original .map file is included in the release, if this Map will be added to an "hypothetical" OACMP Vol.2, Neon Knight can modify it as he want (however anyone can do this, if he want).

I'm only doing my best to give the community a Map to fight in.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: cheb on September 11, 2015, 07:11:20 am
Without ambient occlusion baked into lightmaps, these maps look and feel unnaturally flat, on the level of Uncanny Valley  >:(

Either something is wrong with the map editor/exporter or it is always used with debug quick-export settings instead of production settings.

Because most Quake II maps looked much, much better than this. They were also taking several hours to compile, due to each lightmap texel receiving bounced light from each other lightmap texel in its visibility, up to 3 times.
http://benryves.com/bin/blueprints/3d/2007.08.09.01.png

As it is now, even Minecraft has more realistic, pleasant lighting than the screenshots provided here  :no:


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Akom74 on September 12, 2015, 09:51:11 am
Without ambient occlusion baked into lightmaps, these maps look and feel unnaturally flat, on the level of Uncanny Valley  >:(

Either something is wrong with the map editor/exporter or it is always used with debug quick-export settings instead of production settings.

Because most Quake II maps looked much, much better than this. They were also taking several hours to compile, due to each lightmap texel receiving bounced light from each other lightmap texel in its visibility, up to 3 times.
http://benryves.com/bin/blueprints/3d/2007.08.09.01.png

As it is now, even Minecraft has more realistic, pleasant lighting than the screenshots provided here  :no:


Thanks for your feedback, the map is a Beta version not optimized, because of an error occourred during the compiling process. The VIS process don't work and i've decided to release the map as it is, for now, just to have feedback and suggestions.

When i've more time, i will fix the VIS problem.

By the way, in the PK3 you can find the original .map file in the "sources" folder, if you want make some try to verify the issue.

;)


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on July 12, 2016, 08:21:47 pm
The map becomes bigger and better. (hehe)

The lighting problem can be solved by deleting all the light entities and compiling the map so only the light emitted from shaders remain. From there on, light wherever you need to, and avoid the white light as it's what makes the map to look so unnatural.

Regarding items, the map is pretty big now, so placing the BFG shouldn't be really a problem. You can place it inside of the water, as water can be useful as a hazard, just make sure to remove the Battle Suit as well so it becomes more difficult to catch.

You can place the Battle Suit inside of this warehouse, so there's more reason to go there...

(http://i.imgur.com/z8AxSsyl.jpg)

...and the Megahealth on this other warehouse which needs more reason to be visited.

(http://i.imgur.com/wSpTFQnl.jpg)

I also agree with Gig that you should also add some TA item (Nailgun, Chaingun, Prox Launcher, Invulnerability or Kamikaze). The map is pretty big so it won't be much of a problem.


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 06, 2016, 04:23:44 pm
Thanks for your feedback, the map is a Beta version not optimized, because of an error occourred during the compiling process. The VIS process don't work and i've decided to release the map as it is, for now, just to have feedback and suggestions.

When i've more time, i will fix the VIS problem.

By the way, in the PK3 you can find the original .map file in the "sources" folder, if you want make some try to verify the issue.

;)
I've tried to compile your map, and it outputs this error in the q3map2 which comes with netradiant-git:

Code:
2.5.16
2 threads
Q3Map         - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.16
GtkRadiant    - v1.5.0 Oct  8 2004 08:08:27
Voter turnout
--- InitPaths ---
VFS Init: C:/Games/OpenArena/devoa088/
VFS Init: C:/Games/OpenArena/baseq3/

--- BSP ---
Flare surfaces enabled
Creating meta surfaces from brush faces
Verbose entities enabled
(...)
     2872 shaderInfo
--- LoadMapFile ---
Loading C:\Games\OpenArena\devoa088\maps\oa_cargo.map
entering C:\Games\OpenArena\devoa088\maps\oa_cargo.map
Entity 0, Brush 107: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 377: duplicate plane
Entity 0, Brush 1455: origin brushes not allowed in world
Entity 0, Brush 1981: duplicate plane
WARNING: Over 90 percent structural map detected. Compile time may be adversely affected.
(...)

Code:
2.5.16
2 threads
Q3Map         - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.16
GtkRadiant    - v1.5.0 Oct  8 2004 08:08:27
Voter turnout
--- InitPaths ---
VFS Init: C:/Games/OpenArena/devoa088/
VFS Init: C:/Games/OpenArena/baseq3/

--- Vis ---
Loading C:\Games\OpenArena\devoa088\maps\oa_cargo.bsp
Loading C:\Games\OpenArena\devoa088\maps\oa_cargo.prt
  7062 portalclusters
 26308 numportals
 20524 numfaces
************ ERROR ************
MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY exceeded

You need to reduce the amount of portals VIS generates by reducing the amount of structural brushes in your map. You can either a) turn redundant brushwork into a mapmodel or b) make brushes unnecessary for vis blocking (the ship itself can very well be this) as detail brushes.

Read this page for more info: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Optimization_and_troubleshooting
Also this as well: (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Brush_manipulation#Detail_and_structural_brushes


Title: Re: [MAP] OA_Cargo
Post by: Neon_Knight on August 08, 2016, 11:50:49 am
Here's the fixed .map file. I've turned A LOT of stuff into detail brushes and now the map, while it takes A LOT of time in the VIS stage, no wonder due to the map's voluminous size, at least it doesn't crash anymore there.

Akom, be sure to read the above links. In the meantime, here you have the fixed map. I've zipped it due to the long size of the .map file itself.

EDIT: You may want to also rename the .shader files in your scripts/ folder so they don't clash with those in the OACMP and cause map errors.