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After having some problems with GtkRadian/NetRadiant i finally started my oa-maps re-mapping project.

Screenshots can be found here:
http://live-clan.de/fun/mapping/

Also I made a channel for the mapping-interested:
@quakenet:
#oamapping

Sounds like a good idea !  ;D

Do you re-map every OA map ? (i mean the original)

;)

Hi! Can you tell us more about your remapping project?

I would rather start creating proper maps instead trying to make bad layouts work.

I don't see anything wrong about improving the maps. This is Free Open-Source Software, so bad layouts aren't tied to being bad layouts forever.

About the 'layout' of oasago2 (0.8.1):
The map is probably the most played map.
Give the people what they want!
My opinion about the map:
The layout is good.
It is not pul1ctf (best map ever), but there are some cool RocketJumps/Tricks too.

About the status of the project:
Atm I try to improve FPS.
I will post more information with screenshots after the optimization (attempt).
If the map will run with good FPS I will probably be tempted to remake other OA maps.
I think of bases5, bases7 and ps37ctf.
I am thinking of a secret defrag-mapping experiment too.

If you like, talk to me in IRC:
#oamapping @quakenet

For improving framerate in Oasago2, IIRC somewhere there is a thread where a simplified "torch" model has been made, using many less polygons than the current one...

... thread found!
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4252.msg40236#msg40236
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4252.msg40246#msg40246
16 triangles instead of 310.

One may ask Fromhell it that simple model is already available for use (e.g. if it's already in the SVN).

125FPS straight!

I did a lot of improvement with brushes and vis, but I had dynamic lights x)

Well, cool! However, I see that you're changing the thematic of oasago2 to a more... "industrial"/"militar" theme, isn't it? Torches would be out of place in such a theme. Perhaps single lights may work?

All in all, waiting for the first release of your oasago2 version. And keep up the good work!

I changed the theme because those ever repeating bricks do not work for me - optically speaking.
Concrete does not have such patterns - or as the pic has the same size: patterns are not being recognized that easy.

Still it's a very good theme. And still waiting for a playable version to check it out. :P

Do me a favour and

1)
Join an openmafia CTF server
e.g. All Weaps
\connect openmafia.org
or Insta
\connect openmafia.org:27988

2)
\callvote wing-sago45

3) Play map

4) Post critique!

Note:
a)The Blue side and the Red side are different at the moment.
Blue is newer than red.
b) I know about the missing textures.
Strange enough parts of evil-lair textures are in pak0,
some are not (Tex with same evil-lair number).
c) The number 45 suggests roughly that the map is 45% done.

Any idea the reason why my OA gets stuck on "awaiting gamestate" if I try to join an "openmafia" server?

I had the same problem after capo reported the problem.
The map worked on L!ve*private which is the same server.
I checked the config a bit and dont have a clue  ???

A restart however fixed it - until a reconnect.

I try to fix this now!


Edited stuff is cursive ;-)

Now I tried from another PC... it downloaded some stuff, and then got stuck on "awaiting snapshot" (map is wing-sago45).

The map works in insta and only once for AW. As I do not have time I will fix this later and take the map off.

 :RIP:

What about uploading the map to some place so we can download it and test it without having to connect to a server?

Hi Neon_Knight :)

And retrospectively speaking: "Hello Gig :)"

I am not at home over the weekend and therefore can not fix things in the map.
However if you really like, I happen to have the bsp laying around  here:
http://live-clan.de/~live/delme/wing-sago45.bsp

D/Ling. If you don't mind, I can prepare a pk3 test file, complete with .aas and .arena file, so it can be properly tested.

Some more words:
At the moment I focus on gameplay,
the visual finish will be the last steps.

So what did I focus on right now?
-I removed the first pillow near the flag, the one which you may strafe into when coming from LG and made smaller noclipped pillows.
-Red instead of yellow under the bridge, to have a 25s window for good attacks
-+5H to have 5s 'rail protection'
-Made some clips solid to enable Plasma climbing @JP and to improve 2xRJ
-Took one spawn away from rail-platform (aka camp platform)
-Construction @"window to bridge jump"
-added obstacle below rail-platform to make rail-camping harder when attacking

Some ideas I got so far are
-Make the windows the same size as before as they needed skill
-Adding "legend jump" from 'new' oasago2 to this map
-Reducing z-height and making all slopes shallower
-Rearranging Healths for better RJs

There is a wallbug @gate of rail platform
I will probably clip it but let a small hole open as easteregg/feature.
The most I got so far are 2300u/s :D

If you really want to help me, find out why the version is bugged in AW (but only after reconnect).

Does it have to do with my GtkRadiant being set up for q3 now and some gametypes (double domination) not being supported?
Any items that are being loaded in AW that are not in OA?
I will have to check the map-file with a parser I guess :/

Hum, now that I think of it one second longer...
Yes, aas and .arena would be nice.
But no need to pak unless you can pak all the missing textures :p
I greped the map-file and know all mising textures by name.
Maybe I add them, maybe I find replacements, we will see.

What is AW?
Forget my dumb question, All Weapons, isn't it? -.-
I'll check once I go home.

Please test
wing-sago48

Blue newer than red.
When the map is in a final state, red will be the same as blue - just in red ;-)

Providing a .pk3 ready to be downloaded may help... we are lazy at times.

You get the pk3 when autodownload is on.
Alternatively you can download it manually:
http://openmafia.org/~openarena/openarena/baseoa/wing-sago48.pk3

Given a quick look.

- Theme isn't bad, although it's not a "castle" anymore... Map would require a new long name, then...
- Various missing textures... are you mapping with Q3A, maybe? Or did you forgot to include your own custom textures in the pk3?
- Look at the first screenshot... those remind me about some lights from Q3A. In case you included models from Q3A in the map, you have to know they are not GPL'd (Q3 textures aren't either), so the map would not comply with GPL rules.
- Look at the second screenshot... in a modern themed map, that "magic" symbol looks a bit out of place...
- What about some easy way to reach the lateral railgun platforms? Just an idea...

As I said, it's all about gameplay at the moment.
I only received (rather) positive critique about the look of the map so far,
but mixed critique about gameplay.
Most of the critique is about 'noobizing' the map too much.


--Mapname will be wing-sago as I use the quasi standard 'defrag nomenclatura' (Mapper-Credit / Mapper-Mapname).
   Other of my maps are (clickable):
      -wing-live (http://ws.q3df.org/map/wing-live/)
      -wing-hk (http://ws.q3df.org/map/wing-hk/)
      -wing-marco (http://ws.q3df.org/map/wing-marco/)
--I am having my troubles with setting the textures up properly, yes.
   I already fixed some stuff in wing-sago49 and more fixes will follow. That model will be taken out, thanks!
--That texture and the lighting (which I can not see on your screenshot) are fkn rad!
   However it is not the first time I thought about changing that texture.
   I wonder why no one else mentioned that :o
   Do you have an idea for a better replacement?
--The better player I asked so far did not like me making things easier for 'the average' players and
   the average players did not seem to appreciate the changes.
   Thus the legend jump will probaböy remain the only way to access the platform from below.

Do you use mapmedia.pk3?

Didnt use it yet,
I will google and check.

@Gig:
About the missing texture in the second screenshot:
You were looking probably looking on the red side, because I think I already fixed that 'bug' on the blue side (newer side).

EDIT:
omgZ!
Tell me you have 125FPS in that map if you want :o

Which tools are you using to Map?
I would suggest you to use NetRadiant with current OpenArena pack (http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2722.msg49861#msg49861) installed. That way, you will not have Q3 textures without replacements in OA to give you troubles (side note: you cannot customize Q3 textures due to licensing, but you can create custom versions of OA textures).

About the missing texture in the second screenshot of my previous post... yes that one is from red side, but that was not the aim of that screenshot (it was the jumppad texture)...
However, there are various missing textures in the map, as you can see from the screenshot attached here.

PS:
What's that?

PPS: about the name, I meant that's not "Sago's outer CASTLE" anymore...

GtkRadiant + Custom written progs and scripts.

What I do not understand about the 'spotlamp.md3'.
How can it be shiped with GtkRadiant that is GPLicensed too?

When it is a Q3 model, why is it listed here:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Pak0.pk3/Models
I checked my pak0 however and it seems not to be in there at all :o

One of the goals of OA is compatibilty with third-party stuff designed for Q3 (as possible).
Hence, many OA textures and sounds do have the same filename they had in Q3A.... our files cannot be just copies or edited versions of Q3 assets, but they can be -more or less accurately- inspired by them: they are redone from scratch (or starting from existing GPLv2 or PD files). Q3 texture replacement isn't completed yet, however you can take a look to DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Map_compatibility]Map compatibility (http://([b) wiki page to find out Q3 maps which do not show missing textures in OA.
Of course, OA also contains many assets which did not exist in baseq3.
In short, same filename does not imply it's the same exact file.... it may be its free replacement (or sometimes, just a coincidence).

About the Pak0 wiki page you linked, it looks like that's a list of Q3A assets... just to have a list of all assets which would require to be replaced. "You checked for it in your pak0"... but you meant in baseoa or in baseq3? That page is not the list of OA's pak0, but Q3A's pak0. Not all entries of that list have got their replacement in OA yet.^[1]

Another thing to consider: while shaders^[2], textures and sounds are just "invoked" (linked, referenced) by the .map/.bsp (so you can replace them just by placing new files in the .pk3, similar enough to the original)... for md3 models (mapobjects) it's a different thing. IIRC, MD3 models are incorporated into the .bsp (not sure if also in the .map, or just in the .bsp at compile time... probably the second one): hence, OA "replacements" of md3 objects may be used for new maps.... but maps compiled for Q3 will show the original model forever (texturized or not depending if OA has got replacements for the textures invoked by those models). Unless those models are removed from the .map (optionally placing GPL models in their place) and the map is re-complied, I fear it cannot comply with GPL. Note: I'm talking about "mapobjects", not entities like CTF flags.

About md3 files included with GtkRadiant, are you talking about it configured for OA, or configured for Q3A? I remember when installing the old Q3Radiant, it did place many files into your Q3 installation, including shader files and .md3. (Note: Q3Radiant source code has later been released as GPL, but initially it was released with the license of the Q3 SDK developer tools, with limitations. I don't even know if Q3Radiant binaries based upon its GPL release do exist.) I don't know if those .md3 have been gpl'd too, but I can fear not. I can guess GTK Radiant Q3 game folder may just include those md3 which were initially included with Q3Radiant, although they may be not really GPL'd. I can guess the fact GTKRadiant itself is GPL does not necessarily mean that also all its extra stuff it installs is GPL, too: there are various programs around which do have free source code, but propietary (or however differently licensed) assets (images, sounds, etc). (NOTE: GUESSING)

In the first map I did for OA (oacmpdm10), I did use Q3Radiant for Q3: I used only Q3 textures which already had their replacements in OA, or textures from my own (made from scratch or derived from existing OA textures), and I did not include any md3 mapobject. Also shader-powered textures (e.g. jumppads) did use shaders from my own instead of Q3 shaders. I planned to later switch to NetRadiant (and then compile with q3map2 instead of q3map), configured for OA, but that gave somewhat different results (e.g. sky shaders markup is different (http://q3map2.robotrenegade.com/docs/shader_manual/light-emitting-shaders.html)), so I gave up and kept it old-style. For the map I'm currently working on, I'm doing everything with GTK/NetRadiant configured for OA, do to not have conversion problems later, and to be even more sure about GPL compliance.

^[1] I haven't checked... if that's not even in quake'3 pak0, maybe this may mean that the .md3 isn't actually necessary for the game itself (being incorporated into the .bsp at compile time, so the pk3 only cointains its textures), but may be provided with the Q3A SDK instead. Just guessing. That wiki page does not mention "spotlamp.md3" file, but has got a section called "\Pak0\models\mapobjects\spotlamp", which lists some textures... this may be a clue it's like I was guessing.

^[2] However, some shader parameters (e.g. light emitted) are considered only during compiling time instead of during play time... So a map may have differences if it's compiled from an editor configured for Q3 or from the same editor configured for OA.

@Everyone: please correct me if I said something wrong. Thank you.

Thanks for the long post.

My short answer is:
I will remove the spotlights.

You can try wing-sago54 with changes influenced by
-Zimmer106
-eAx
-Marco