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Started a new own map after a LONG time.

This time I've recycled a map I've started for the OACMP2. A CTF map which also supports the related gametypes.

Long story short: this time I'll try a different approach. First I want to get the layout right, therefore it is blocky (easily modifiable) and with no lighting at all. Visuals will come later. Also added an initial weapon/item placement.

Known issues:
- Buttons don't work as intended. The idea for them is to be used for the BFG cage. The BFG itself is extremely risky to get because you depend on your teammates to get it and risk getting drowned and trapped in the process with no way out unless your teammate helps you. FIXED in a1v2.
- Arrows to bases don't show.
- Map was compiled without -light. This was on purpose.
- Bot play doesn't work.

Screenshots attached

More screenies

Hearing that you are back on mapping is really good news!  :)

About the map:
- Good, but maybe it may have been a bit smaller? It gives a bit of "dwarfish" feeling, maybe.
- The energy grids are visible from one side only.
- Do the buttons actually open the cage? I have not been able to see it open, not even setting g_speed 1000 to get there faster. And I have not been able to order a bot to camp on the button because the provided aas file results "out of date".

Thank you!

Yeah, that's a valid concern. I may paliate it by adding obstacles and stuff for cover. But size is an issue, indeed.


They should. I have to check them, then. The idea, however, is that getting the BFG should be a team effort: one of your teammates open the cage and you get in, and wait for your teammate to open the cage again so you can escape with it. Therefore you get the BFG and wreak havoc, but at the cost of getting trapped and drowned.

Also will get corrected. I haven't finished setting the environment up when I decided to open the editor again.

BTW, my main concerns: how long it does take to capture the flag in the shortest and longest paths? Is it easy to defend? Is it easy to attack?

Hi Neon_Knight

Why so squared? :P Try to bring some nice angles to your brushwork. B,

Have take your map file and edit it a little bit to show my point.  xD In my opinion the look, feeling and gameplay gets benefit by this.
Only the main room is touched by me the rest of the map could also get such style.

I also find the map to big therefore I have also make the main room a little bit smaller. @_@

Cheers

sorry dude I was somehow on fire..  x(

have fix the doors too  :shifty:
The key angle has missed I just add it and set it to -2, so the doors opens downward.

Thank you, cg! I'll take a look at your changes when I come back to home. :D

Yeah, I've been notified of the scale issue, something I want to tackle on ASAP.

btw regarding playbility of the map: The concept of the map is realy awesome  ;) ... when the whole map is reduced down by size I see no issues you need to concerning for. My last change cause that the connection way gets longer, which can be frustrated for gameplay if the routes are to long.  ??? So my suggestion is to continue reducing the size.

I know the down size on Radiant can be also ended in frustration it can become a pain in the ass. xD Therefore I use to check the size at the very begining before finalize the whole blocking. ;)

Yep, long routes in CTF is usually a no-no. See: the original Hydronex, czest2ctf, czest3ctf.

There's a reason why the most popular OA CTF maps are oasago2 and both versions of ps37ctf.

Neon Knight, you asked how long it took to go from flag to flag?
The most direct path, through water, took me about 45 seconds.
A path starting from a flag and going left, keeping the left as possible, passing all ground floor except a relatively short underwater section at the end took me about 32 seconds.
A path starting from a flag, taking the ramp and keeping the right took about 22 seconds. I'm not an excellent strafejumper, doing the same without jumping at all took me about 32 seconds.
This refers to am_bioxide-a1v2.

A thing I noticed is that, using other routes, I found myself "lost" at times.

carca55gr1nd3r, your changes look nice. However, probably NK wished to do the general layout right before adding in details.

Yes I know some details was too early done, all the fancy stuff but I was so inspired and dont want to loose the vision I have seen from the main layout.

But some of the angled brushwork and size fix shall be included at the very begining while the boxing stage.

cheers

I still haven't decided which visual theme would suit the map's layout.

There should have been arrows guiding to the bases, but somehow these didn't end in the a1v2. Though I'm not sure if I should keep the lateral routes or remove them.

By such a complex structure like your layout directions are needed ... don't miss them !!!
In my head a nice idea for the direction signs comes up. It  need some shader and gfx work. If you like I can creat it and show a demo....


regarding routes .... thats realy shows only a intensive test game between humans. with bots it will maybe get a wrong opinion.


EDIT: See attached the texture I have done. It shall became together with a shader like a "digital LED screen sign in a closed box"

EDIT2: done the prototype of the texture shader for the "digital LED screen sign in a closed box" see my last attached screenshot  >:D
here also a samplemap with the included texture and shader :
https://app.box.com/s/rvff72efs9oziui59hlea27uncghlug6

As far as I know, there are some (more subtle) arrow textures in the official packs for CTF maps.

Right now I'm working on the map. :)

Things to be done:
- Scale down at least 50%
- Energy grid
- Fix the buttons
- Fix AAS
- Fix the "map too square" issue with curves
- Arrows guiding to bases
- Adding jumppads, holes in walkways and the like. Allow players from the upper level to see the BFG.

Tackled (hopefully) everything but some of the issues. I'll tackle these the next time.

DOWNLOAD (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rsbmcbjp89fgckv/z_am_bioxide-a1v3.pk3?dl=0)

a1v3 CHANGES:
- The middle area was redesigned. (Thanks carcassgrinder!)
- Buttons fixed.
- AAS fixed.
- Several hallways and areas were turned into curves by way of patches. The map should be less square this way.
- Arrows!
- Plenty of jumppads. Especially in the central area.
- Added two large healths in the central water pool.
- Improved and added support for Double Domination.

SCREENSHOTS!
(https://i.imgur.com/zGk8Ksql.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iW5qujGl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nzV0kY0l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/z7LvsbQl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V2IRQChl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zzrsuYhl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dkshnHDl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LPAeZwil.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zw2cBV2l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tjoiTmLl.jpg)

To do:
- First phase of lighting.
- Fix the BFG cell.
- Tackle the scale issue.

Good! I tried the map with some bots, it seems playable.  :)

It looks like that one of the two energy doors still does not open.
They are the best addition! Thank you very much! Thanks to them, now even the map itself does not feel as large as before!

Other:
- Console log reveals that there are two shotguns which do not spawn due to being "in solid".
- Where is the rocket launcher? I haven't found it yet... probably my fault.
- What about adding runes?

From the bases' viewpoints the left button should open the left forcefield while the right one should open the right forcefield. I'll try this.

Well, there's a reason why one of the recommended practices for CTF maps are the arrows. :)
Now I'm curious, does the capture time increase or decrease with the arrows?

Bug confirmed, two shotguns, one per base, were meant to spawn in the big pillar area, but got embedded accidentally in the geometry. Fixed.

There should be two per base, one in the pillar zone and another on the flag base at the curve. However thanks to your report I've found another bug, the red RL doesn't spawn in the flag room. So, bug confirmed. And fixed.

Hmmm... I can consider that.

Isn't that too complicated for the users? Couldn't just every button open both doors?

You already have to ask a teammate to stay on the button without dying to soon, to allow you to get the bfg... do you even need to tell him "which one" he has to stay on? In that case, at least make them more easy to identify (e.g. "green button" and "yellow button")...

BTW: Here a "how to easy test the buttons when ya alone at the map" or short "HTETTBWYAATM Guide":

- fire up OpenArena and turn off the full screen mode change the resolution that it fit approx. 60 till 30 % at your monitor screen.

- load the map by the console

- after entering the map put your self above a button so the button stays activated.

- open the console to be able to leave the mouse from the game and enter the desktop of your PC

- start a second time OpenArena (remember the first OpenArena is still maintain with the map!)

- enter the console again and type /connect  127.0.0.1
or try to connect at multiplayer the local server that shall be shown till the first Openarena process is inside the map.

- now you can check the energy door with the second connection. if you want to toggle the player use the console to leave each OA window, with this procedure you can easy verify every button.

 And be carefully and don't shoot your self :P

Yep. Remember that the BFG is an unbalancing superweapon. Whoever gets it can clean up the base and do absolute chaos... to both his enemies and teammates. It's only a logical thing that such a weapon is hard to get and that if you want that extreme power you need to put your life at risk.

1. Not that unbalancing and not that super (I love using it on ctf4ish and... ziggurats, I think?). Against organized team defense effort a lone BFG guy is nothing (proved time and again by my ass being handed to me, despite me being a bfg pro)
2. Noobs tend firing it in long burts wasting their ammo without hitting much (they are so awed by it they forget to aim  :shifty: )
3. The defenders fragged you. Now *they* have the  bfg :giggity: Come get some!

Ctf4ish does that well, but I finally invented, then mastered a jump that lets you get it on the go. Everyone uses it now, with up to 3 bfgs in play sometimes.
I can't say that makes the game less fun.
I even remember losing 0:8 while grabbing the bfg constantly and slaying a lot. My frag count was through the roof... and didn't matter, because we *lost*.

P.S.

Also, unless I'm behind the times, we are talking teams of mute mimes here. To help your teammate you have to guess what he is doing.

I'd suggest a button that turns a *colored* barrier on (the pusher's team color), one that disappears if touched by the same color player.
So it acts like an opportunisting trap for enemy players >:D

NEW VERSION FOR DOWNLOAD! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9035oevdzsr51t8/z_oac_bioxide-a1v4.pk3?dl=0)

Changelog:

• Map renamed to oac_bioxide-a1v4
• First pass of lighting
• Overall scale lowered to 0.5
• Fixed red RL and both Shotguns not appearing in the map.
• First pass of visuals, but only to the underwater tunnel, and subject to change.
• Buttons now work as intended.
• Clipped ramps so they can emit the footstep sound.

To-Do:

• Fix the BFG cell -.- For some reason I can't make the barrier to appear double sided.
• In some areas the player hits their head with the ceiling. Another thing to fix.
• Reduce the overdraw by making the underwater entrances non-rect.

The Usual Concerns: (Requires tests in CTF 5v5 against Tony players or Tony bots in Nightmare)

• How long does it take to make a capture in the shortest route?
• How long does it take to make a capture in the longest route?
• How long does it take to make a capture in the shortest route without trickjumping?
• How long does it take to make a capture in the longest route without trickjumping?
• How easy is to defend the own flag?
• How easy is to get the enemy flag and escape with it to the own base?
• How well the player can see other players? Which areas need to be more lit?

Screenshots:
(https://i.imgur.com/yIuaEjKl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UD828jYl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZXLMrgTl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wUCTGsAl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kkJ8U0bl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NepE4gLl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HlOMLCEl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3ESTxKCl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SbWvfeFl.jpg)

Oops... I just saw your posts, cheb!

Fixing the BFG cell is on my to-do list.

I fear the game does not support that kind of logic...

>:(

A simple "shoot a ton of rockets at him" then, these respect the friendly fire setting AFAIK.

BFG can be placed in a deep well, deep enough that anyone grabbing it will start drowning before getting to the surface.
make large underwater ceiling with a single breathing hole in the center (barred!) and the button shooting a bunch of rockets from the well's edges and impacting around that hole.

Ooor, someone can simply stand above the hole and wait for the bfg seeker to appear there, seeking the sweet air >:D

Hi Neon,

the fix for BFG cell: Change the sides of the door brush with caulk texture. see on my sample map...

Anything to say about the newer version of the map? ...

First thoughts:
- Nice, but maybe you did scale it down too much? When you are on the lower floor and jump, you bump your head against the upper floor!
- Look at the attached screenshot: if I'm here and I have to reach the red base (on the right), if I wish to use the upper floor the path is WAY longer than using the lower floor. What about adding a jumppad on the right, to invite te to use the upper floor?

yeah Dude nice work the size fits perfectly like a ass on a bucket (old german saying for some stuff that is tide together like hell). so stay with the size do not mess around its just perfect. :)

okay here the stuff you shall work out: I noted the jumppads (at main or center room with the pool) from the ground to the side plattform are to close. If come from a bad angle you stuck on the upper edge of the plattform what is in my opinion a pain in the ass regarding the gameflow. try to move them a little away from the wall and give some more space for landing on the top if possible. Maybe think about teleporters but to have jumppads would be actually nice.

What about the underwater world ... what do ya think about my underwater concept on my sample map?
If ya like I can create some underwater plants to place them there. Ya know I like fancy, shiny stuff the Q3 engine is able to do.... :D

EDIT: I forgot for your lights would be nice to add some visible light sources like a lamp, light beam or else..

Uh? Do you mean you like to bump your head on the roof when you jump? :-/

Of course, if you think x and y sizes are ok, you can just adjust z...

No, I do not like to bumb my head on the ceiling because that hurt awful  xD ...

but think about that: the small section with the low ceiling is like a natural chokepoint, that avoid jumping in that special zone of the map.
It force the player to choose a different route at the upper floor to make a full jump movement back to the other base. This can make the gameplay more advanced and brakes up a boring only jump CTF map.

EDIT: It would be nice to have a jumppad get a fast access to the upper path at the flagg room and previous room Gig is pointing. So as a bypass for the "lower chokepoint"

With the new size, the jumppads in the central area may be unnecessary, but I still want a connection between both floors in the central area. I'll see what can I do. Also the problems Gig mentioned.

The underwater layout will definitely be changed. Mostly because the engine renders the central area from the bases, which is something I don't want to happen.

We all love the fancy stuff. :3 But the layout must be finished first, once all the problems inherent to it with at least CTF are solved then we can start thinking about the details. :)

sorry made a wrong instruction to fix the BFG basket....

indeed I have reduced the thickness and put the same texture on the backside of the doors.
You have put nodraw but the texture you have choosen on the front is visible from one side only.

You can do it like described above, but if you want to stay with your idea, here is another posibility....:

Take the shader file at my attachement and put it on your scripts folder of your mapping environment.
Open the shaderlist.txt file (also inside scripts) with an texteditor and insert a new line with neon_knight.

Restart Radiant and open up your map and simply replace the texture at front of the doors with the new texture given at nk_sfx/forcefield
It is visible from both sides.

Do not forget to put the shader file also to the map pk3 file (scripts folder) otherwise the map will not know the texture.

I haven't checked in the editor how those energy doors are made... however, in case they have one visible side and "nodraw" on the others, what about specifying "cull none" in the shader of the visible side?

You are right thats the problem.

A smart way to fix it creating a different shaderfile with same texture but cull none parameter added. Thats what is inside my attachment.