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I got some time in this week and thought that I would use it on mapping.
I wanted to make a map that was suited for fewer players because we are usually only about 4 players then I play.

The map name is: Sago's Castle 2 (because the theme relates it to my first map)
It is a small CTF map for 4-8 players
Designed after: CTF-TFC-Solemn for UT2004 (selected because of the low player count)
For bots at least 3 players on each team should be used.
Status: Beta 4

PK3-file:
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2b4.pk3

Screenshot:
Look in later post for more updated ones.

fun map ;D

Your maps are getting better but you still have room for improvement:
- the broken textures generally are used as weapon spawn points and should be used as such
- You should consider doing a custom texture for your windows that includes a transparency rather than using small brushes which increases r_speeds
- the cylinders your torches are hanging in need to be capped
- your fires aren't centered over the torches and several of them have more than one flame visible (You should also consider using the red and blue flames as it is a ctf map).
- your bsp file size is way to large (6 meg +) play around with your compile options and decrease it.

@dmn_clown
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll properly look at it soon. I have noticed several ways to reduce the tris count but the windows was not originally part of it consideration. 

I didn't even know that the broken textures was used to mark weapon sports. I just thought they was meant to create some variation. That was good to know.

Looooove the layout. Very funny to play map. Needs some more details in my eyes. Keep it up!

nice map looking at the pics.

i'll download it tonight and play.

Love the layout, will be action packed even with 4 or 5 on each side.

Like clown said, fire needs to be centered. Also, the torches need some work.

I just wanted to upload another beta before the easter holiday.

I have centered most of the flames. The torches still not capped, I just thought about it now...
Some iron work has been added so the walls look less bare... There are still room for more.

I simplified some of the brushes but it has not prevented the bsp-file from growing :-(

Time for beta 3.

The BSP file is a little smaller
The torches are the way I want them now.

Also a version for OA 0.60 is available. It includes two textures from the SVN version.
This will most likely be the only version for 0.60 as all my other plans require never versions.

I still use the same windows as before. I have tried with the grates from the SVN version but it blocks vis in an undesirable fashion.

Files for this version:
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2b3.pk3 (http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2b3.pk3)
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2b3_060.pk3 (http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2b3_060.pk3)

the textures on your torches are stretched a bit too much, otherwise it looks ok.

My first final unfortunately suffered from a bug. Very small and not gameplay effecting but still.

Updated to Final +0.1

This is an awesome map. Just a few more enchancements and you oughta be good to go.

Ok, the SVN version (as of 772) has some bugs if not using the missionpack.

I think dmn_clown has added colored lightsm sounds and missionpack support. It is rather good (except for the sounds but I think they are placeholders).

However this version contains the original weapons and location information.

To summarize this version adds:
Colored light in bases (See screenshot)
One flag capture support
Harvester support
Overload support
Double Domination support
Location information (See screenshot)

Screenshot:
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2f3.jpg)

This should really go in the SVN for the next version.

The map, bsp and aas are in this pk3-file:
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2f3.pk3

Sweet, thanks :D

oasago2f2 is the best map in oa0.7.1 easily :)

RAZ3R found some misplaced touches. There are still slightly misplaced fires if you look really close, but such things will always be.

The latest version is in the SVN and here: http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2f4.pk3

Some pictures that could be the new levelshot:
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2_1.jpg)
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2_2.jpg)
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2_3.jpg)
(http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2_4.jpg)

I prefer the last, but comments or suggestions are welcome... I don't have more time working on the map itself though...

very nice sago. this map and oa-ctf4ish is the best maps in openarena 0.7.1 imo.

i haven't tried all of the new maps coming up for the next release, hopefully we get a couple more sweet ones!

This is by far the best official ctf map. My only complaint with it is the trim on the walls which you can get stuck under when walking up the slopes if you are against the wall. This would be easy to fix with player clip but it seems the map#s already been finalised now :(.

i agree, its my favorite ctf map because i can get a ton of speed strafe jumping on it without feeling like a long distance, but at the same time there is more than one path to each base. it tends to generate the most competitive gameplay of all the ctf maps i have played on online.

What did you do?
Using the proximity mines breaks down the gameplay in oasago2.
now the map is playable like hydronex: run, run, run, shoot, die, next try. boring!
it is very hard to handle the mines _and_ a handfull of enemies. you have to watch your steps very carefully and get in contact with the defense at the same time. but the defense can use the whole area and you are nailed at one place. if the playreskills are equal the offense never can win the fight (because the def can use 2 weapons at the same time).

Maybe you should replace the mines with the nailgun (or back to the grenade launcher).

i experienced the same as above poster yesterday when playing this map online. the flags are mined like there's no tomorrow and it's near impossible to get close to the flag. i guess the mine layer are situated too close to the flags. the distance between spawn, mine layer and flag is so short that it get's too powerful.

ok, there's no ammo packs for the mine layer - but it doesn't matter cause the mine layer weapon are so close to for defenders that it gets picked up again. not exactly running out of mines even if you spew them all around.

anyway - that's what i felt after my first "excessive" mine round :P

Interesting.

I never thought of the mine layer as being so overpowerfull.
I always considered the grenade launcher to be underpowered in the map and could as well not have been there. And I didn't expect to beak the balance as the weapons was just tossed around randomly in the first place. I knew that clearing the mines would take some seconds but I never expected it to be more than a little challenge.

But thanks for notifying me of this and not just stay silent.

Prox Launcher can be powerful, but it doesn't instant-kill AFAIK.
Also, ,mines can be shoot down with RL or another weapon. (RL prefered)

@sago: thanks for your comment. i hope to see you online soon, so you can watch the prox-minse. And: greatest map for oa!

it is right that you can "activate" them with the RL or the plasma. But if you try to blast them, you will find out, that their stands a defender, who will kick you up and away.
And this point changes the "feeling" of oasago2.

One of the best maps!

Final +0.6 is up (Final +0.5 is the 0.8.0 version)
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/oasago2f6.pk3

Mine Layer replaced by Rocket launcher.
Railgun and plasmagun on the platforms have swapped places.
Some other small changes.

could you do something to optimize FPS? its gets really low.

TFC was a funny map contest. ;D
I wonder when we can do something like that at OpenArena. ;D (A map contest, obviously :P)
It will be the "Make Something OpenArena Contest" 2KX lol...

Offtopic apart, a great map, sad you had to change the Prox Launcher for the whiners.
Let's see the new version.

I just realized that the first post still only has a link to Final+3 (2f3). The 2f6 link was hidden in a later post.

About the prox launcher:
I never really wanted to change the map but the granade launcher there was just so underpowered and unused that I needed to try something else. Now I use the Rocket Launcher meaning that there is 6-7 rocket launchers in the map (depending on the gametype) and that might not be ideal either.

Performance wise the map has always had a tris count 3-4 times to high. I have reduced it a little since the initial release but it is in large due to the openness of the map; some might call it flawed by design for that reason. It may be possible to improve a little further by replacing the windows by models.

A new version (Final +0.7). Nothing but optimizations...

Changelog:
Reduced CPU load and memory usage (might improve performance on lower end systems)
Improved compile time (-90%)
Improved size (-1 MB)

I has expected an fps increase of 50% or more but on my machine it kept between 210-300 fps like 2f6.

I'll post a zip file in the commit section before the next release if I forget it please remind me.

EDIT:
I have already noticed a lot of missing brushes. A 2f8 will arrive soon. Unfortunately it looks like the performance have not improved at all.

We need this till the OA-Clanleague starts- either in new OA version (doubt) or as standalone pk3.

oasago2 is realy great ctf map.

Which version is included in 0.8.1 OA?

Thanks

0.8.1 includes oasago2f6. oasago2f7 is currently very buggy.

acc_dm5/woodenbarrier would make a good texture for the windows, instead of 3 or 4 brushes each window could have one texture drawn, you could even indent the brush a little bit into the wall and make it cover every window on a building with one brush. Could help fps lots. All those blocks on top of the castles probably hurt it a lot too, they go with the theme but drop fps some.

Also, you could consider merging the 2 brushes that make the "doors" around the flag area (the wooden door things) into one brush, that might help some too.

Can you rise obelisks a little bit from the floor? Yesterday at OAA Server we've playing Harvester for first time, and obelisks are so buried in floor that they weren't visible at all.

(http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/5195/shot0023vv3.th.jpg) (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0023vv3.jpg) (http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/2350/shot0022fh4.th.jpg) (http://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0022fh4.jpg) (http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6301/shot0021yq0.th.jpg) (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot0021yq0.jpg)

I know about the obelisk placement and have also talked about it with leileilol. The obelisks in oasago2 is placed so they match Team Arena's obelisk models. Therefore I believe that it is the models that should be moved up (to keep compatibility with as many existing Team Arena maps as possible). leileilol agreed but also noticed that there are limited possibilities to place the models correctly with the current blender export plugins and that it can only be aligned by trial and error.

All maps I have created or changed suffer from the same problem.

oasago2f8 is up.

Replaced non reachable windows with textures. (as suggested by PsYthe)
Changed lightning (I am not satisfied and will have to work more on it)
Merged lots of brushes.
Changed bsp size.
Experimented with compile variables.

oasago2f9 is up

More light
Better brushes (= better vis)

With the default OA q3config.cfg, r_mode -1 and:
./openarena-0.8.1/openarena.x86_64 +map oasago2f9 +cg_drawfps 1 +com_maxfps 500 +r_customwidth 2560 +r_customheight 1600

If I go under the bridge and look up (at the bridge), I get a fps value, now the strange thing is that if I zoom in, that value is significantly lower, even though there is only a single wall visible. Any idea why?

I think Oasago2 is the best ctf map in OA, but its fun has decreased in time, IMHO. As much as I like rockets, grenades and especially prox mines added to gameplay. The extra rocket doesn't add anything. Maybe for prox mines a smaller ammunition would help to deter people that actively prox camp, but it is not like you couldn't outrun the explosion or rocket the mines away easily anyways.

If you want to tackle overpowered weapons you should watch the raygun. It is fast to kill when in close quarters and players get it right after spawning. It also has a lot of ammunition. This is okay in all rockets and instagib but IMO people should be penalized for dying, not rewarded. The machinegun is more than enough to chase after you until they can get some weapon.

@dash9
I have no idea, I cannot reproduce it myself.

@ikao
I still don't know what should replace the grenade launcher place. I didn't want to place another rocket launcher there but the spot was worthless as it was.
About the penalizing players for dying. I don't like it, it is a team game people should focus on helping the team not staying alive. The map is small it takes few seconds to do a capture and the machine gun is just not good enough for that. I moved the rail gun in 0.8.1 so that the player had to move away from its spawn point to camp the flag. Some might consider it overpowered but the alternative is to underpower it and I don't want to do that either as it would virtually remove it from the map, reducing the map to 3 weapons.

What about bringing back grenade launcher ?

that would be nice!
and maybe a nailgun at the "railplattform" replacing the plasma?

I'm a declarated NailFan (:P) but I think a Nailgun there will complicate things while hunting down campers. Same as putting shotgun, you're giving them the chance to live longer.

thats right, but maybe we could test the gameplay at the betamaps-server?

BTW, I meant to say that the *lightning* gun was overpowered, not the rail. The LG and two sets of ammo.

hello, i am a big fan of your great map, though it's based on ut2004 :P


i downloaded the latest version of the map f9 ! then i tried to compile it to a bsp with q3map2,  and got many errors. that already happened with earlier versions (f6 e.g.). i compiled oa_ctf4ish successfully and i begin to believe that it could be some options/configurations i havent noticed, yet.


the error says: <sup>C:\q3map2build>"F:\gtkradiant 1.5.0\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "E:\OpenArena" -fs_
game "baseoa" -game "OA" "E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.map"
2.5.17
1 threads
Q3Map         - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.17
GtkRadiant    - v1.5.0 Apr 26 2007 19:01:46
Last one turns the lights off
VFS Init: E:/OpenArena/baseoa/
VFS Init: E:/OpenArena/baseq3/

--- BSP ---
entering scripts/shaderlist.txt
entering scripts/shaderlist.txt (2)
entering scripts/common.shader
entering scripts/detailtest.shader
entering scripts/oasky.shader
entering scripts/beams.shader
entering scripts/liquid_lavas.shader
entering scripts/liquid_water.shader
entering scripts/oalite.shader
entering scripts/oaflares.shader
entering scripts/oanew.shader
entering scripts/oa_fogs.shader
Script file scripts/quark.shader was not found
entering scripts/evil8.shader
entering scripts/clown.shader
entering scripts/clown2.shader
entering scripts/mc-oa.shader
entering scripts/terrain.shader
entering scripts/oasfx.shader
entering scripts/nki.shader
entering scripts/islandctf.shader
entering scripts/suction.shader
entering scripts/czest.shader
entering scripts/acc.shader
Loading E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.map
entering E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.map
WARNING: Couldn't find image for shader textures/NULL
Entity 0 (worldspawn) has lightmap scale of 1.2000
        0 areaportals
Size: -4504, -3976,  -888 to  4656,  3368,  1640
block size = { 1024 1024 1024 }
      827 leafs filled
writing E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.prt
************ ERROR ************
WindingFromDrawSurf failed: MAX_POINTS_ON_WINDING exceeded

C:\q3map2build>"F:\gtkradiant 1.5.0\q3map2.exe" -fs_basepath "E:\OpenArena" -fs_
game "baseoa" -game "OA" -vis "E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.map"
2.5.17
1 threads
Q3Map         - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.17
GtkRadiant    - v1.5.0 Apr 26 2007 19:01:46
Last one turns the lights off
VFS Init: E:/OpenArena/baseoa/
VFS Init: E:/OpenArena/baseq3/

--- Vis ---
Loading E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.bsp
************ ERROR ************
Error opening E:\OpenArena\baseoa\maps\oasago2f9.bsp: No such file or directory</sup>



any ideas, i read that this error appears when there are to many brushes at one axis. but you already compiled this one successfully :) so it must be my setup i think

I currently use NetRadiant that has a slightly different q3map2 compiler. I have posted my compile options in the GamePak for NetRadiant thread (they are in the pack).

My best guess is that your version of q3map2 has other limits than the version I have. However f8+ should have been much less demanding for the compiler so it is a mystery to me.

Back in beta with the most different version ever.

Trying to solve the S-shape problem.

Nice changes, I love the layout modification, rocket-spawn-spammers will have less chance to hit anything :D but, won't it make rail too powerful? I mean, it is a long straight corridor, rail-campers might abuse it.
Nice job blocking the view of furthest towers, now I have a fully stable 75 FPS in there (I never before had), but the "unreachable" windows you blocked with textures weren't actually so unreachable and it was great fun jumping and firing through them, now it's just a different wall.

Does the beta-testserver have this map on? Latest version f9 i think?

it has ;)

If i'm quick at updating it, server might be a way for lazy guys to get maps instead of downloading it themselves :D

Old version (2b9) is still available too, but not in rotation.

IMHO, the new map looks ugly and crowded.
It doesn't do anything for framerate either.
Also, what's the purpose of that weird room with the rocket launcher?

I have some ideas for an oasago2+ version.
I can do some lowkey editing on some screenshots to give some ideas.

I agree.

It is only to see if it was possible to get extra performance. If that isn't the case then b4 makes no sense (and even if it did make sense it would require a lot of work). I consider f9 to be the latest "stable" version.

Maybe this map is to late in development but..

I played osago on corkscrew server. Graple and all. So I had some view on uper levels of osago2. They are modeled and shloud be used. So I was thinking adding jumping for access those platforms above flag "room"

Maybe it would bring more camping over flag but it would be great attacking site. Maybe this suggestions sux. But upper levels should be used. Maybe uper levels over lightning gun rooms.

I got  the same idea bout opening upper level,..and then some more.
Are you making maps christoos?

I made some screenshots with oasago2b4.
340 and 341 show how zooming in on a flag on the wall drops the fps. It does not happen with every flag. The fps delta here is 20 frames on average; the delta is much bigger on the flags over the bridge, for example.
The second example is really weird. See 345 and 346 (where I zoomed in). 30 fps lower in the zoomed in version. It's practically a single texture which has to be rendered, but the fps is ridiculously slow.

Anyone has any explanation?

I have an idea for the map. What about putting two team-colored banners by side in the middle passage? That way is possible to block campers' visibility on the map. I have to make a modifying to show that.

EDIT: I've modified the .map file (I didn't know it was inside the pk3) download here (http://www.onykage.com/files/armageddonman/oasago2b4v2-map.zip). (That's only the .map file) I don't know which switches you use on compiling.

hey sago, are you still on it?

thx for your great maps I had a lot of ggs on it.

is a final oasago3 in sight anywehre? I still got heavy fps drops when near the bridge with all versions of oasago so far.

so I'm looking forward to a newer version :)

well,, some screenshots... :)

"many players" + "shots" + "sago bridge" come together = fps drops to 15fps
I get 125-90 fps, when alone in the base at a flag, facing a wall. (not the best defense position)

here's a gallery. movement from base wall, to flag, to bridge (alone. in game fps are lower):
(http://www.abload.de/thumb/shot0004dzj8.jpg) (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=shot0004dzj8.jpg)
(http://www.abload.de/thumb/shot0005uz9h.jpg) (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=shot0005uz9h.jpg)
(http://www.abload.de/thumb/shot0006j5rs.jpg) (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=shot0006j5rs.jpg)
(http://www.abload.de/thumb/shot0007s5n0.jpg) (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=shot0007s5n0.jpg)
(http://www.abload.de/thumb/shot0008n1kc.jpg) (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=shot0008n1kc.jpg)


os[linux 2.6.24-23-generic i686]
distro[ubuntu/hardyd]
cpu[1 x Intel(R) Celeron(R) M CPU 430  @ 1.73GHz (GenuineIntel) @ 1.73GHz]
mem[Physical: 1.5GB, 68.3% free]
disk[Total: 431.9GB, 31.7% free]
video[Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller]

turn on r_speeds and r_showtris and walk around the base. large portions of the map is drawn from most locations. i have the same problem on the pul1ctf map and i'm planning a remake for that one. not sure how to solve the oasago2 problem though.

I took a look at the .map file of b4 before I stopped mapping, it hasn't any hint brushes. Also, I've found surfaces which can't be seen in any way ingame and aren't caulked, so these are drawn as well. :/

I suggest using a simpler torch model or just a couple brushes as an alternative. Should help FPS a lot.

openarena

You have worked with 2f9, the recent version is 2b4. :P

Actually b4 was more like a test... and a failed test too. f9 is the is the latest version.

openarena

Could i request considering substituting rampas (slides) with stairs? Q3 has certain physics which work/or not in certain conditions. A rampa is slower to pass than stairs. The distance where the 1st bottom one ends is quite crafty placed, which allows not to lose speed if you made and extra long strafe jump from the bridge and landed on the flat ground. You would lose speed if there were stairs eitherway.
I cant remember which native Q3 maps had rampas. Also LG to LG bridge must be done in 3 click jumps if you dont want to lose speed. I havent seen triple jumps before too.

And another request.
Can item placement be improved? It's better when there's no more than 1 weapon of same type per side (no 3 RL's and 1 in the center, 2 PG's).
Also ammo should be available not on the same place as weapon, makes more challenging to get it.
Maybe more powerups?

Any news on this map?

A solution for this can be adding playerclip stairs on the ramps themselves.

On both of them, I agree.

No, 2f9 is still the latest version by me. There is not much I can do about it without making it a completly different map but then I could as well start from scratch.

For variety's sake, if people complain they could replace it with what they like in forthcoming version ;)

I tested oasago2 in darkplaces with realtime lighting, noticed a ton of the performance died because of the torch models. This is probably old news though, but that's where the bulk of the map complexities lie in. The map can be further optimized by turning the 'background windows' into single brush alpha textures so there's less polys to draw, and perhaps making that flat anyway with glass you can't see through so you can get rid of decorative empty rooms. Vis can't always reduce this overdraw.

Should I make a quick and dirty low-poly replacement torch MD3?  It shouldn't affect lighting since lights can be cast through alpha holes in q3map/q3map2


I should have brought up the FPS issue earlier since I never actually tested this map on the slow computers. I should have.

This was done in 2f8

Might be a good idea. In the 2f2 version, the touches was constructed of some patches. Comparing to the 2f2 version can tell how badly the touches are affecting the performance.

Took oasago2f9, applied lei's suggested torch changes. Also applied the hintbrushes from oasago2f9-hintbrushes there. Hopefully it runs faster now.