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OpenArena Contributions => Development => Topic started by: Anso on May 11, 2007, 01:56:10 PM



Title: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 11, 2007, 01:56:10 PM
(Disclaimer: I don't know if this was the right forum, but it was the most fitting to me since it's about something I'd like to add to the game)

Hello People, and most of all the developers! ;)

First, thank you for making this grreat game and releasing for us all to enjoy, especially us not on PCs :)
I thought I wanted to contribute to your project and the only thing I can do is music.
You see, I'm a musician that makes mostly electronic music, specializing in Drum and Bass, Analogue-style and atmospheric tracks. I've made some remixes of tracks for OCremix ( http://www.ocremix.org , also a wonderful thing for free ) and made a few tracks for some projects there and I've been getting some good response.
I thought maybe you wanted some more melodic music to match the new characters and maybe some other new tunes overall. I can also make not so melodic, more industrial music if you wish.
I bet you want to hear something before you even consider this, so here are some sample tunes:

1. http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/Analogue.mp3 / http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/Analogue.ogg - This one I made especially for OpenArena two hours before I sent this mail. It shows the style I thought would fit in the background on some levels. I would make all songs loopable and in any format you want :)
2. http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/PeopleMadeofStone.mp3 / http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/PeopleMadeofStone.ogg This is a fullfledged production so you can see what I'm capable of in terms of arrangement and production.
3. http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/Follin.mp3 / http://soundscape.escariot.net/private_files/Follin.ogg - This is a track that shows more Drum and Bass-ish music, something that could be nice to get the adrenaline pumping

I really want to help and contribute to this project and I hope you want some of my music in your game! Ofc I can make it GPL or something like that if you want to. I'm all for sharing anything people want from me, it just makes me happy if other people can enjoy it.
If anyone wants to contact me in private, send me an e-mail to anothersoundscape@gmail.com

Thank you for your time!
//Mattias (Another Soundscape)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: kit89 on May 11, 2007, 02:15:59 PM
I have only one thing to say about your music........WoW. :)

You first song has an awesome industrial futuristic feel to it, which personally would suit well for a variety of the maps in OA.

Your second song has a more natural approach, in my opinion would suit forest maps, like the island map.

I'd recommend you take a look at the GPL licence  and have a thoroughly read, recently a musician released his music under the GPL for a game, but turns out he didn't want it used for any other game without certain restrictions.

Just to let you know. ;)

Excellent music m8!



Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 11, 2007, 02:21:22 PM
First, Thanks for the nice comments :) Really happy to hear you like it.
Yeah I saw that thread and felt sorry for him. I'm only happy that everyone (I don't care if they make animalporn) can use my music :) As I said, I like to share.
I'll guess I read through the GPL though, but I'm pretty darn sure I'll agree with everything on it :)

Edit: It seems to me that the GPL is only for software? Can you use it for music too? Do I just suck at english? :D http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: fromhell on May 11, 2007, 03:04:25 PM
It can be applied for assets still if there's a source. How do you define the SOURCE of a mp3 stream (ew) alone?

(This is why I prefer and encourage the use of any Tracker)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 11, 2007, 03:32:19 PM
I use Reason so I could supply the reason project file so anyone can edit it and supply all the samples and such? .. although Reason is a commercial product so "anyone" can't edit it.. hm. >.<
So you don't accept music that isn't made with a tracker? Bah, the only tracker I can use is one for the gameboy and I feel it doesn't really fit :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 11, 2007, 11:29:26 PM
What is your preferred format for encoding audio?  When you answer that, you have your source. :)

I wish I had a legal way to listen to your mp3's :(


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: kit89 on May 12, 2007, 01:11:13 AM
Quote
I wish I had a legal way to listen to your mp3's

I think VLC plays mp3, should be legal too.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 12, 2007, 03:47:20 AM
I do love FLAC and OGG but I thought mp3 was convenient.
If anyone wishes I can upload these in OGG too?


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 12, 2007, 06:30:07 AM
ogg would be cool :)

@ kit89 -  The patent license fee to distribute the mp3 codec is ~$15,000 for an audio format that is antiquated and lossy.  A few commercial GNU/Linux distros pay that fee, Debian does not nor do the developers of the free media players.  This is also why mp3 support is not available in OA.

The only legal way in the USA to listen to or encode an mp3 (Or watch an encrypted DVD for that matter) is to use a commercial media player/encoder or to pay that ~$15,000 thanks to the DMCA and the American enforcement of software patents.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: kit89 on May 12, 2007, 10:27:00 AM
Quote
The patent license fee to distribute the mp3 codec is ~$15,000 for an audio format that is antiquated and lossy.  A few commercial GNU/Linux distros pay that fee, Debian does not nor do the developers of the free media players.  This is also why mp3 support is not available in OA.

Aah right, I had it in my head, that you could use mp3 codecs, however you cannot distribute them with a product but must be installed by the user.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 12, 2007, 12:56:58 PM
Actually using an unlicensed codec violates US Patent law, it is just not enforced against the free (as in speech) encoders / decoders probably because most of us can't afford to pay $1.52 billion (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/23/technology/23patent.html?ex=1329886800&en=7f18ecdae21e9311&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss).  In some countries it is legal for an individual to use an unlicensed codec, Germany is a good example
Quote
under German Patent Law, 11(1) a patent doesn't cover
private acts with non-industrial purposes.
from here (http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt).

I'd give my left testicle for politicians that would remove our software patent laws from the books.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 12, 2007, 02:33:42 PM
Uploaded the songs in .ogg for everyone who wants to listen and prefers ogg before mp3
See top post!
Would love if anyone that listened and liked it could say so :) I'm always open for making music for any projects though but Open Arena is a game I truly enjoy ;)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 12, 2007, 04:20:58 PM
Those songs are pretty good, Analogue and People made of stone would work quite nicely in ctf levels.  Follin could be a good death match song. 

I wouldn't mind using them in a level or two, depending on how you decide to license them, of course.

(Thanks for providing ogg's, btw :) )


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 12, 2007, 04:56:29 PM
As I said, I can license them however the developers want. I really don't care :) All I want is that people enjoy my music and that I can contribute :)

and you're welcome, it was my pleasure


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 13, 2007, 04:02:53 AM
The license needs to be GPL or compatible so we can distribute the songs.

I would be willing to accept a flac as source (the Tracker format) but that is really up to fromhell.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 13, 2007, 06:08:13 AM
Ok, but I think I'm missing something.. Flac, isn't that free lossless audio codec? Then what do you mean by tracker? Can I still do the song in Reason? O.o Sorry for being slow :)

Then I hope fromhell reads this and that he contacts me or something because I can't PM him ;P


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 13, 2007, 07:37:36 AM
n/m I hadn't had my second cup of coffee when I posted that. d'oh!

What I meant to say if you can't find a tracker format, we could accept a flac of the audio file as a source.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 13, 2007, 08:13:56 AM
That would probably be for the best.. Maybe I can put up the Reason project files on my website so anyone with Reason can get the original project files? Just because I love othe musicians and sharing :)

'but anyway, this is obviously fromhell's decision. Although I hope anyone who reads this and likes the music could leave a comment and maybe say if they would like some of my music in the game. If I would be permitted to add some of my music for the game I would start composing and start a thread with the works in progress so everyone could give constructive criticism, I aim to please :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: MilesTeg on May 17, 2007, 02:25:54 PM
Hi Anso!

Great music and thx for sharing!
I think the Reason project files would be the closest to "source" you can get because it gives others the chance to recreate / remix the music.

Maybe there are more open project formats that can be used by other (free(ware)) programs too?

cheers
MilesTeg


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 17, 2007, 05:50:59 PM
Hi MilesTeg!

First thanks :)
The only way to get project files for free or opensource programs is to use that program sadly.. and I'm not interested in switching to a program that is worse just for the issue of a more complete source, sorry :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: fromhell on May 17, 2007, 07:13:36 PM
Learning how to use a tracker isn't a bad idea. Soundtracker and OpenMPT (Formerly ModPlug Tracker gone Free) are good apps, and Freepats has Free GPL patch samples that could be used too


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: MilesTeg on May 18, 2007, 12:29:22 AM
Hi MilesTeg!

First thanks :)
The only way to get project files for free or opensource programs is to use that program sadly.. and I'm not interested in switching to a program that is worse just for the issue of a more complete source, sorry :)

I understand your decission. We simply don't live in a complete OSS-World and it's better to accept this than refusing good work :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 18, 2007, 05:45:58 AM
Learning how to use a tracker isn't a bad idea. Soundtracker and OpenMPT (Formerly ModPlug Tracker gone Free) are good apps, and Freepats has Free GPL patch samples that could be used too

I know all the tracker basics since I'm working with a slimmed down version on a Gameboy (LSDJ). But the tracker and the tracker interface doesn't have the same flexibility and such will affect the overall quality of my music. Also I like Reason :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 20, 2007, 07:09:30 AM
As long as there is no restriction in its EULA that would limit how you license your output and/or limits the creation of derivatives, you should be able to use what you like.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: Anso on May 21, 2007, 04:24:47 AM
As long as there is no restriction in its EULA that would limit how you license your output and/or limits the creation of derivatives, you should be able to use what you like.

It isn't :)
Still I need some kind of.. you know acknowledgement from the lead developer that they can include my music in the game before anything can happen right?


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on May 21, 2007, 12:30:00 PM
As long as the music is licensed under the GPL we can include it in the project, so feel free to start submitting music.  :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 08, 2007, 06:39:13 PM
Terribly sorry to bump this, but if I have a large amount of music written from scratch, which I wish to supply to OA,how o I go about submitting it?


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: fromhell on June 08, 2007, 06:54:21 PM
You post it here?

Heh, posted a request thread over at modarchive
http://modarchive.org/boards/viewtopic.php?t=694


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 08, 2007, 07:28:38 PM
ahh ok.

most excellent.

I'm just wondering, do you have a preference for a style.
i.e. will rave music be approriate? I'm a  rocker a theart but have no talent at a true musical instrument.
XD


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: fromhell on June 08, 2007, 07:43:09 PM
rave might be a bit too fast.

Quake3 had mostly gothic industrial music and Unreal Tournament had some techno obvious tracker type stuff (of course, being in tracker format helped that effect), I could probably settle with both styles in one game.

OA's current music is probably way too slow paced and quiet, and only fits dark tech maps.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 08, 2007, 09:22:11 PM
alright then.

was only asking because I had some pre-made stuff.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 15, 2007, 12:22:24 AM
Huzza?
I think so.
Personally I like 3 and 4

but you know it doesn't matter. WHat matters is me and my firends have these on loop when we play with each other.

Link (I apolgize for the Rapidshit, but my normal webhost is being mean)
http://rapidshare.com/files/37474842/OpenArena.rar.html
Yes I made these

If you like these, just tell me and I'll re-export them as Ogg Vorbis.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 15, 2007, 08:16:03 PM
DUR. Sorry. I forgot to mention, if these songs are used, I will release under GPL V2. etc. etc.

But fi they aren't, then no release of source.

Anyways...please SOMEONE comment on the music. I'm dying for a review.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 16, 2007, 06:31:18 AM
tough to give a review when you don't have a utility to extract the files you compressed, let alone a legal way to listen to them.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 16, 2007, 04:25:21 PM
Are you serious?
7zip for extraction, VLC to play it.
And I don't understand what you mean by legal way to listen to them.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 16, 2007, 05:44:42 PM
unfortunately I am, 7zip's GNU/Linux port does not work well with rar files (it corrupts the file more often than not on extract, same with the unrar-free and unrar utilities).  :(

In the United States the free media players are illegal to distribute and install (if they include mp3 support, etc. due to the absolutely _idiotic_ DMCA and US Patent Laws).  Now, in some countries with less idiotic laws and politicians, these players and the free encoder/decoders available with them are perfectly legal, but unfortunately I don't live in one of those countries and while I may not agree with the _idiotic_ laws my elected representatives have allowed to be passed that trounce my fair use rights, they are still the law :(

Its not you, its the crappy rar support in GNU/Linux and my f****** moron politicians that feel my Fair-Use rights aren't as important as the billion dollar recording industry loosing 0.01% of their gross profits.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 16, 2007, 05:59:36 PM
Well, Don't worry we have the same policitians(U.S. Citizen myself, though I apparently have NOT mastered the english language, like I previously had thought with the conveyance of my words).

Also, I find that the DMCA is helpful in one regard (It provides a case for the creatros of flash videos at AblinoBlacksheep, whose flashes are regularly tolen and put up on EbaumsWorld. But that's the ONLY application I can see of it). Also it'll allow me to sue teh RIAA if they ever decide to collect royalties in my name.

I'll re-convert them to OGG Vorbis and upload them in a zip file for you, although technically, you COULD listen to the MP3's with Audacity.
I'll post again with a link to the new rapidshare.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 16, 2007, 06:12:52 PM
http://rapidshare.com/files/37840009/OpenArena.zip.html
BAM!


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 17, 2007, 06:23:22 AM
Thanks.

I like #4, it has an aggressive edge to it that screams deathmatch
#3 has a slight moodiness to it which could be accentuated with some female screams mixed in (you could sample some of the screams found in "Night of the Living Dead" which is in the public domain)
#2 is kinda slow but could be used in some of the team maps
#1 is also slow but could fit into a team map.

Care to release them with source under the GPL?




Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 17, 2007, 11:44:38 AM
I would be delighted, however I have one question: Will my name be in the list of contributors etc.?

Only reason I ask is while I don't mind the GPL at all (Far from it), I've always had a feeling of giving credit where credit is due ;). Not to imply anything, but in the near future, if someone takes credit for making these, I'll be able to point to OA and say, "NO, you didn't :P"

Anyways, I'll post again with a link to the source files (they are going to be in ACD-ZIP format, which will include all of the source files inside). The reason they are in ACD-ZIP format is because I made these songs using some of my loops, with ACID Music Studio, also the file reads the files in relativity, so you'd have to have the same path as me to read the wav files. However, anyone can open up the ACD-ZIP file without problems, and you can do it for free with ACID Xpress, which can be found with a simple Google search, however, you will require WINE, or to be running Windows to open it. (I'm not sure if WINE supports it).

Check back here in a while for a link to all of the ACD-ZIP's


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 17, 2007, 03:08:28 PM
Will my name be in the list of contributors etc.?

Yes.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 17, 2007, 03:43:39 PM
http://rapidshare.com/files/38010277/OpenArenaMusic.zip.html


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 17, 2007, 04:12:06 PM
The acd-zip files open fine in ark, I would assume that acd-zip is just another fancy zip name with little done to the compression.

They'll be committed soon. :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 17, 2007, 04:13:11 PM
:)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 17, 2007, 05:29:44 PM
Committed, thank you :)


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 17, 2007, 06:11:47 PM
Anytime.
If I can find time in the future I'll probably make some more.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: fromhell on June 17, 2007, 09:35:10 PM
Are those loops in the acds Free? They seem dated 2004 and could have shipped with the program you use. If there's a non-commercial only license on them, we can't use them.

Could try to work around the issue by creating tracker modules (.it, .xm)based on the songs, not using the same samples of course, but as Free covers heh using only freepats.


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 17, 2007, 11:49:18 PM
The loops are NOT non commercial use.
The License with which I acquired them stated I may do whateevr I wish with them, as along as I do not export them to North Korea, iran, etc.

Stupid Patriot Act (I think. Can't be too careful. However as a rule I say if it sounds stupid, or "unpatriotic" Patriot Act).


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: dmn_clown on June 18, 2007, 06:35:39 AM
The loops are NOT non commercial use.

Then they are free to use much like the patterns that every image editor comes with.  (e.g. as part of the whole but not as the main part of a stand-alone product)

Quote
Stupid Patriot Act.

The US export laws were retarded before the "Patriot" Act.  The Patriot Act just made it easier for government agencies to spy on you without notice which includes checking which books you've checked out of your local library. 


Title: Re: About Music :)
Post by: SAHChandler on June 18, 2007, 12:40:09 PM
Quote
Stupid Patriot Act.

The US export laws were retarded before the "Patriot" Act.  The Patriot Act just made it easier for government agencies to spy on you without notice which includes checking which books you've checked out of your local library. 


This is true.