OpenArena Message Boards

Hi

I'm tired of searching servers with no bots, and I'm not talking about
server bots like Ayumi or Tony. I'm talking about much stronger bots.
This bots goes from server to server, with new names, new model, speak
only a little and is not so easy to recognise them at first glance.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/480/botseu2.png

Look at the ping, this two are from same machine. Before this server they were
on another server with me.

It's totally killing my will to play online.

They could be really good local players.      I myself hardly ever chat when playing online because I know the difference between chat rooms and ingame action

Or they could just have really good connections.

Hmm..those are not bots at all :) They are players, and one of them being relatively skilled. When it comes to a ping of 64ms, what makes you think that it is a bot then? In my own case I have a lag of about 50ms on most servers in Europe and on the servers I run I have players with a lag of 11ms but they are still very much human :)

64ms? cant be a server bot

Ok, if you say so. I hate when show my nose for millisecond and am railed.
Let it be skill then.

Man, you just need to be a bit patient. Play more, and depending on your abilities, in a month or two you will be able to play better, and not get railed every time you show your nose around the corner. I myself needed at least 3 months to even frag once some of the top players. But I was persistent, had an hour a day to play, and now i still get pwned by guys like Insomn1a, Cortex, Haueck, Jojo, unarmedplayer to mention a few. :)  Nevertheless, I enjoy playing, win or loose, pwn or get pwned. Good luck, and have fun ;)

~Irony-modus on~Bots have a major advantage because they have no latency [0 ms]~Irony-modus off~

( Please excuse my bad english )

Hi!

I can proof that they are no bots coz i know them both.

Fenicks is good but imho not a superior player. I played a few times against him/her.
But loki is one of the VERY BEST players i have ever seen. He and some other EXTREME good player
like stygius etc. made me choose my name .... i know i can NEVER reach there skills.
Loki is a very friendly kind of person. I meet him at defrag training. He shows me how i can complete some plasmruns.
I simply cant do them without his clues. He is an EXTREAMLY skilled player. But the other side of the medal is not so fine.
People allways call him a cheater becuose he is incredible good. So if you meet him PLEASE do NOT call him a cheater!
Play against him and LEARN! Be fascinated of his skills like me. Die with honor :)
It is hard to accept that they are players arround with are soooooooooooo much more skilled like me. But calling them a cheater
dont better my skills ... I do the same mistake by myself. Thinking about cheating only when i saw player going with twice of my speed ...
( dont know about straf and circlejumps ... ) Jumping much higher than me. ( dont know about rocketjumps ) etc. etc.
But now i have learned many tricks by myself so i have been confrontated with the same problem ...
It is very sad if you train hard to be better and the only result is to be called a cheater.
The physics engine of OA ( quake3) is graet. Much more than 320u speed is possible. So check the internet, learn, come back and fight!

Have fun with this fantastic game!
Thanks to all the people who made oa possible.

Apprentice

 

Hi apprentice

I know all this now, it's me Pink Panther. Stygius is unbelivable good.

The rainbow|defrag is designed to teach people how to move faster, jump higher, aim better and increase the overall skill of the player. There are plenty of good tutorials on how to perform strafe-jumps, plasma climbs and other sorts of trick. We are in the process of writing easy to understand tutorials, and provide video recordings of how to perform the tricks on the rainbow website. When it comes to speed, 320 is normal walking speed and a rocket is ~900 but with some training you can run with 2500 ups, i.e outrun your own rockets. And no, I am not joking :)
As always, we are on IRC if you want help/tricks/tutorials regarding training.

Hi!

Yes i know that you are not joking :)
Me personal best speed in grid2 is ca. 2370. I have seen loki going with nearly 3000u!!!!! It was between 2990 and 2998 i dont know the exact value.
Rainbow defrag is GREAT! You must show up there to belive. There is sooooo much to learn. And it is realy fun :)
I cant do the strafpads yet and my circlejumps are ridicoulos. But i try and maybe succeed one day ........

C U all on the next oa server ...

Apprentice

Training is what makes a champion :)
It is a steep learning curve for jumping, but once you can feel the rhythm, then you also understand how to jump. Que?, or SenorQue, is one of the jumpers who can perform opc1 backwards, that takes some very precise movement but with training you can do it. Keep your eyes open for our videos ;)

lol this guy pazuzu or something ALWAYS swears im a cheater even if im getting wasted. i havent reached my quake 1 or 2 level of play in oa yet, but i AM ok. why, if ur aim is on, or ur just lucky one day do people always have to accuse you of cheating? he almost got me banned from the Old Farts server. untill i got them to spectate me.

Yes i know him too. He dont called me a cheater YET but yesterday i played in hydronex (CTF) and he showes up. Team blue with 6 people ( incl. me ) in it. Team red 8 people. He joined red and dont understand why i wrote " nice join " .... This is the next point that sickens me. One team wins and team members from the other team JOIN winning team or ANY new player join the loosing team. Yesterday we win at last with 5 : 9 player by timeout. Teambalance cant be forced under any circumstance. The better team must be allowed to win. Also yesterday we  havent a chance against a very good group of players. It was 0:6 and new players only join us. So i wrote "teams!" and got the answer "but we are loosing!"  ......
EVERY team can be forced to loose by simply outnumbering them with a large number of players. But this makes no sense at all!

Apprentice

I have only been playing the game for a few days now and I may not be very good yet, but I can still spot certain signs of cheating. For instance, when I grab the invisibility, run around and find someone, they turn and blast me with a rocket in a matter of a second even when I had taken no action to alert them of my presence... sounds a little fishy to me.

DH

One of the first things that you need to learn is to listen to sounds in your surrounding. That is why certain players are able to shoot you before you exit a doorway; climb a ladder; surface from water and so on. That applies to footsteps also...
And also, even if you are 'invisible' you can still be seen from the silhouette outline.
Anyway, welcome to the game and hope that you will enjoy it..

Thanks for the welcome w1zrd. Wasn't accusing anybody of cheating or anything like that. Just some things in the game are still new to me and I still have some learning to do.

DH

Hi!

Please dont think about cheating first if things are suspicious to you! ( I did the same mistake too )
When i play ctf and HEAR the sound of the invisibility powerup is taken, i check everything twice.
( Footsteps, sound of something is taken etc. etc. ) The invisibility is not TOTAL you still can be seen but it is not so easy.
Some guy leave the server while playing against me coz i simply shoot him from underwater! But this is no big deal!
I jumped in and he stand still fireing at me. So a) i know his positon when i jumped into water and fire a missle at his last known position
and b) He fiers at me and i simply follow the bullettrails which i can see! Easy stuff ...
I dont see any cheating around playing OA. Its only stuff that i dont know or cant handle by myself!
OA is real fun and there is much to learn.

Apprentice


 

being able to hear other players is really important to me. i've got myself a good quality set of headphones that are comfortable and block out other sounds, it really helps.

i'm really tempted by the idea of surround sound headphones. that would give an amazing listening experience.

Put a bucket over your head while playing, that enhances the experience ;)

can OA put out surround sound?

am i allowed to cut eye holes in it? or is this one of those jedi training things you trickjumpers do? ;)

T3h f0rc3 iz $tR0nG 1n u!
(bots are not good at listening, still they know where you are)

I'm a bot. My AI isn't so good.

bots ALWAYS HAVE ZERO PING
people ALWAYS HAVE MORE THAN ZERO PING

also bots have a face right next to the name indicating its skill level, but im sure that may not apply to all servers; further more oa is glitchy so u can add a bot without the face sometimes. the best way to be sure is the ping

Or how they go lava-dipping on dm4ish ;)

Hi!

On my own Server my ping is also zero .....
But you still can ask me questions and my answers are not botlike ;o)
The face isnt there if you set botlevel >= 6.0
Maybe the face isnt there under other circumstances. But i dont know them.

Apprentice

Has there ever been a confirmed evidence of cheating in OA?

1. There is no anti-cheat for OA.
2. Players, referees and admins have no access to other players systems.
3. There is no ability to obtain screenshots from other players in the game.

Without one, two or three there really is no possibility for such evidence to exist, though a demo could work if they are being abusive enough with it and don't care to be seen.

A demo is what I was thinking about, since specing someone is not a problem. I guess when some1 cheats, then he\she abuses it sooner or later. Anyway, thx for the info.

Hi all :)

Since yesterday i am an official member of then "cheaters made by pazuzu" clan :) :)
He called me many times a cheater. Another player who knows me try to help ... but no luck
pazuzu leaved the server soon ....
Short time later another guy swear i am a cheater COZ I USE LINUX!!!! *rotfl*
Only with Linux you can use the "speed fix" ( i know strafjumping and he obviously don`t )
and the "health fix" ( he simply aimed very badly on me )
When I arrived it was 3 : 2 for red team. I join blue and we win 8 : 3 ( or 8 : 4 i dont remember exactly )
So he says: The prove of cheating is the score of blue! LOL
Last words from him: Learn to play well without using aid!

What shall i say ... its very easy to call someone a cheater if you haven't to prove anything ..
Just call i good player a cheater and thats it!
Fact is: I am not a good player but people who called me a cheater are simply very bad and know nothing about the possibilities of the gameengine!
You can be sure those guys never shown up on rainbow defrag to train with us!

So next time i loose ctf against stygius and rocco ( VERY VERY GOOD AND FRINDLY PLAYERS!! )
I say you MUST be cheating coz we loose 2 : 8 ...... *rotfl*

Apprentice

haha, you have to stop training mate! :) I know that you are a cheater, I know that you are fast, I know that you can move! It is because you run linux! ROTFL! Seriously though, some players out there are simply not even worth listening to. Some you can listen to, because they will amuse your with their stupidity when they call everyone around them a cheater, but some simply don't the the fact that they are not good players, not even average ones and thus they try to blame others for their failures. Ignore, and repeat ;)

The obvious response:
Just because you suck doesn't mean that everybody who sucks less is a cheater.

It is simply a bad habit that many people has, that whenever they are loosing a fight to someone who has a better aim, or faster movements, they scream cheater. I guess jealousy and insecurity but most of all they lack respect for other players. I don't mind someone calling someone else a cheater, but it needs to have valid reasons to do so. Another interesting fact is that it seems like most aimbots and cheats are developed for the Windows platform, hence moving Linux users further away from being cheaters.

 Anyway, sliding back on topic, almost. There are bots that will do everything they can do give you a good run for your money, but they are nothing compared to a real human player. Of course a bot will have the better aim, but never the same tactics and unpredictability as a human being, for that reason I believe that it is sometimes good to use bots and play against them, to practice a somewhat mechanical behaviour which lets you focus more on aiming rather than tactics. Bots have little use of their 0 ping, they still know where you are. Even if the bots use fuzzy logic, you get used to aiming where they will go. As for humans you need to aim where they might go. Know before you think, or think before you know?

Maybe not in any game that includes (even partially) Mr. Elusive's q3:a ai, but it is possible.

I read somewhere that the ai in quakewars would be something extraordinary and the same thing for the spiterbot's ai in q3 but I still find it hard to imagine that you can mimic human behaviour by code. Not without electrodes attached to a human brain :)

Btw, Spiterbot works with oa, it's worth checking it out if you have interest in things
like this.
http://www.alitdom.org/quake3/mods/spiterbotfullv0.52.rar (http://www.alitdom.org/quake3/mods/spiterbotfullv0.52.rar)

It runs better on a dedicated server (check the docs for setting up one)

Within the set environment that a game creates, human behavior is very predictable and can be mimicked to a high degree of accuracy, but it would drive people insane if English speaking people had to explain team functions to the ai that only understood Mandarin and just ran around trying to shoot people ;) (This has happened to me more than once in Wolfenstein:ET).

Even outside of a game, human behavior can be predicted to a high degree.   Go to your local shopping center and drop the equivalent of $1 (maybe more, as the US Dollar has tanked) on the floor.  Walk away and watch, some will see it and keep walking, some won't see it, but someone will eventually stop and pick it up.

WRT to ET:QW's ai, however I thought it was extraordinary because the bots move and act like a team and performed their class duties (They tried this in q3:a BTW but it didn't work out so good).

http://www.sendspace.com/file/fkplt7 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/fkplt7)

=)