Edgy OA Content

[supermatic]

rough sketch for you supermatic.

Thank you very much.

[w1zrd]

[off-topic]
Would I be allowed to say what I think about this, or are there certain forum rules preventing me to do so, causing posts to become deleted?
[/off-topic]

[SnooSnoo]

[off-topic]
Would I be allowed to say what I think about this, or are there certain forum rules preventing me to do so, causing posts to become deleted?
[/off-topic]

Mystical forces mate.

Excuse me for going off topic.

[dmn_clown]

I'm waiting for someone to animate a video staring Angelyss and Sergei along the lines of Fritz the Cat...

[HanClinto]

I'm waiting for someone to animate a video staring Angelyss and Sergei along the lines of Fritz the Cat...

I'm waiting for someone to respond to the unaddressed on-topic comments.

[dmn_clown]

I'm waiting for someone to respond to the unaddressed on-topic comments.

Remove the mature pak and then you won't be scarred for life by modeled flesh.  If you don't like that solution, sorry.

[HanClinto]

Remove the mature pak and then you won't be scarred for life by modeled flesh.  If you don't like that solution, sorry.

It has been said before that OA would never include nudity in its games, and that it wouldn't go so far as to include bizarre sexual stuff. That was stated as clear OA policy.

That's all I wanted to know -- if the OA team was officially changing this previous policy to include nudity (and blatantly sexually-driven content) as modus operandi.

--clint

[w1zrd]

Remove the mature pak and then you won't be scarred for life by modeled flesh.  If you don't like that solution, sorry.

It has been said before that OA would never include nudity in its games, and that it wouldn't go so far as to include bizarre sexual stuff. That was stated as clear OA policy.

That's all I wanted to know -- if OA was changing this previous policy to include nudity as modus operandi.

--clint

Question is, is there even a stated policy for OA any longer?
The reason why 0.6 didn't have any controversy in regards to nudity could be because the previous female model was not directly created as an OA project.
http://virtualworlds.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Jkm_female_1_redirect.png
This is the only official policy/standard I can find about this project but surely there must be more, I simply can't find it.

This is a list of stuff we won't do and never will:

    * Change the gameplay.
    * Make it a flat-colored fov200d 633fps-exploited "professional" trickjumping cheatfest.
    * Political propaganda
    * Frontal nudity in the releases
    * Creative Commons licensed files
    * Sponsor/get sponsored

[dmn_clown]

That's all I wanted to know -- if the OA team was officially changing this previous policy to include nudity (and blatantly sexually-driven content) as modus operandi.

--clint

It has been made clear that the models in question are not nude, but I have yet to see anything that is sexually driven, you are going to have to spell that one out.

[supermatic]

Would I be allowed to say what I think about this, or ...

I'm afraid you can't say what you really thinking, she is watching you.

[w1zrd]

Would I be allowed to say what I think about this, or ...

I'm afraid you can't say what you really thinking, she is watching you.

..but the question is really, who is she?
If we talk about main developers forum posts (read a few posts up) then it would be a correct statement, but if we refer to the official Open Arena IRC channel and it's discussions, then we don't know if he is she, or she is he.
If we talk about my mother, then I know she is a she and I listen carefully to her since I respect her.

[HanClinto]

It has been made clear that the models in question are not nude

Fine. Topless. fromhell agreed that the model was topless, he merely said that it was a rushed model and they didn't find anything they liked in time for the release, so instead of pulling the model out of the release, they broke policy and published a model with nudity. fromhell confirmed this in his earlier post in this thread, do you need a quote?

but I have yet to see anything that is sexually driven, you are going to have to spell that one out.

Okay, I'll spell it out.
1) Lingerie is sexually driven. Yes? Everyone agree on this?

2) Outfits with nipple-to-labia clamps are sold exclusively as lingerie / sextoys in real-life stores. Yes? Have you bought them anywhere else?

3) A character is modeled/textured to wear such a lingerie outfit in a game. We all know which model we're talking about here.

4) Therefore, the model is sexually-driven.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

Did you seriously not understand this chain of thought, or are you just harassing me?

--clint

[fromhell]

It has been made clear that the models in question are not nude

Fine. Topless. fromhell agreed that the model was topless, he merely said that it was a rushed model and they didn't find anything they liked in time for the release, so instead of pulling the model out of the release, they broke policy and published a model with nudity.

It's not nudity. There are no offensive parts. She's as clean as a Barbie doll. She is also tasteful, and I shouldn't even have to stick her in the mature pak. No policy is broken.

2) Outfits with nipple-to-labia clamps are sold exclusively as lingerie / sextoys in real-life stores. Yes? Have you bought them anywhere else?

What a silly argument. Also, where can you buy q3 Hunter's 'breast belt'? OH I guess that must be a sex toy too because it is not a conventional swimsuit.

damnit, what do you really want me to do about it, pull the 0.7.0 release off the page and point fingers on who and why?

That's not going to happen.  I like my releases complete and I don't have time nor bandwidth to pull up a cut 240mb release just for a few select people.

[HanClinto]

It's not nudity. There are no offensive parts. She's as clean as a Barbie doll.

Some people like their sex-doll porn without nipples. Just because they wear flesh-colored latex nipple stickers doesn't mean it's not pornography or nudity.

This is what I was asking about in my last big post:

However, it sounds like the standard that OA is following up until this point says "there will be no nudity in this game" to mean "this game will technically be able to be PG-13 with regards to sexuality". At least, that's the only way that I can gel past OA guidelines I've read with the new 0.7 content.

If that is what you mean, then that's not saying much at all. PG-13 movies stereotypically push the line as far as they can go without technically crossing it. They're the annoying little brother who holds their finger as close to you as possible without actually making contact saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" This says things like, "She's not actually nude -- her nipple is never seen!" or "Sure you can see her nipple through her wet t-shirt, but it's not showing!" or "She's wearing latex paint! It's not technically nudity!"

Give me a break. It's not the issue of nudity -- the issue is of intent.

I think that the women who have posted in this thread have made it clear that "nipples" != "offensive parts" -- the offensive part is the intent with which this content is put into an otherwise excellent team deathmatch game.

damnit, what do you really want me to do about it, pull the 0.7.0 release off the page and point fingers on who and why?

That's not going to happen.  I like my releases complete and I don't have time nor bandwidth to pull up a cut 240mb release just for a few select people.

When dmn_clown put out a call for suggestions, noone suggested that we pull the 0.7 release -- everything we've been talking about is looking forward to policy for the future.


Like I said before, this isn't my show. I'm just one of a myriad of other users. It's been asked before how to get more people playing OA, I'm just trying to give you feedback from this one customer's point of view. Please don't feel pressured by me -- I'm not trying to strongarm my way into control of this project. I am just one data point of customer feedback -- take it for what it's worth.

--clint

Edit: Sorry, you were revising your post while I was typing mine. To address your comment to me:

What a silly argument. Also, where can you buy q3 Hunter's 'breast belt'? OH I guess that must be a sex toy too because it is not a conventional swimsuit.

*sigh* Whether or not you can technically buy an in-game item in real life (or where it's bought) was not the point I was trying to convey. I was saying that nipple-to-labia clamps are generally understood to be lingerie. Yes?

[w1zrd]

It has been made clear that the models in question are not nude

Fine. Topless. fromhell agreed that the model was topless, he merely said that it was a rushed model and they didn't find anything they liked in time for the release, so instead of pulling the model out of the release, they broke policy and published a model with nudity.

It's not nudity. There are no offensive parts. She's as clean as a Barbie doll.

damnit, what do you really want me to do about it, pull the 0.7.0 release off the page and point fingers on who and why?

That's not going to happen.  I like my releases complete and I don't have time nor bandwidth to pull up a cut 240mb release just for a few select people.

As far as Barbie nudity goes it is a choice that the kids can make, they can choose to undress the dolls and watch them "nude". A Barbie doll does not come packaged without any, or less than minimal, clothing. If you are curious enough to undress a barbie doll you wouldn't find nipples, camel-toes or any other extremely enlarged body-parts. Here is how a nude Barbie look like.

Why not, for 0. if enough people oppose as to having what some cultures would call nudity, make a separate add-on with the mature contents (that you can download if you provide your age), instead of having it pre-packed and embedded with the release.

That way we get:

• less complaints
• more respect as a serious community
• happy boys
• happy girls
• smaller downloads (if not using 'mature' content

If the spirit of Open Arena is to live on, it needs more players and a larger community, not the other way around.
Personally, if I want to see large breast while playing, I could play Leisure Suit Larry.

[edit: added a link to our DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Angelyss]Angelyss wiki - where do we draw the nudity line?]

[fromhell]

It was originally supposed to be nipple-to-waist, but there would be severe clipping issues from that idea.

What about the angelyss/tanisha skin? Surely that could be worse issue.

[anyone]

Ok, if I understand what you're talking about Clint, you don't have anything against the nudity matter, but more about "sexual driven content", like urging people to fantasy on models?
I mean, (that's an example, cover your eyes children... I can see you !) some completely clothed nurse sucking (in a very indecent manner) a lollypop or an ice cream must be considered as "sexual driven content" while DaVinci's David shouldn't. Because one is trying to turn people on while the other... not.

[HanClinto]

Ok, if I understand what you're talking about Clint, you don't have anything against the nudity matter, but more about "sexual driven content", like urging people to fantasy on models?
I mean, (that's an example, cover your eyes children... I can see you !) some completely clothed nurse sucking (in a very indecent manner) a lollypop or an ice cream must be considered as "sexual driven content" while DaVinci's David shouldn't. Because one is trying to turn people on while the other... not.

Yes -- thanks for wording it so well. Both of your examples could be used in ways other than that which the author intended, but trying to control that falls outside of the realm of prudent responsibility. Whether or not something is "clean" or "wholesome" comes down to trying to honestly know the intent behind it.

--clint

[w1zrd]

rough sketch for you supermatic.

i did the new clothes, hair and eyes, but the model is openarena's anglelyss, pretty much unmodified apart from the subsurf.

the tifa model that leileilol mentioned is available on ioquake3's site. here's the link for the model page...
http://ioquake3.org/?page=models
...and here's a direct link for tifa...
http://ioquake3.org/files/models2/q3mdl-tifa.zip

A request from my girlfriend, she was wondering if you could model something like this to:

satisfy her gaming needs

[hyp3rfocus]

interesting challenge, i might just try that.

[supermatic]

..but the question is really, who is she?

I'm talking about your gf, it's obvious. Or it is not? Nevermind.

[w1zrd]

..but the question is really, who is she?

I'm talking about your gf, it's obvious. Or it is not? Nevermind.

I was confused by the he who was a she until she became a he, but we still don't know if he is she or she is he. So no, wasn't that obvious to me

[dmn_clown]

1) Lingerie is sexually driven. Yes? Everyone agree on this?

2) Outfits with nipple-to-labia clamps are sold exclusively as lingerie / sextoys in real-life stores. Yes? Have you bought them anywhere else?

3) A character is modeled/textured to wear such a lingerie outfit in a game. We all know which model we're talking about here.

4) Therefore, the model is sexually-driven.

I don't know how I can make it any clearer.

Did you seriously not understand this chain of thought, or are you just harassing me?

--clint

*sigh*

If you want to believe I am harassing you, feel free.  If you want to continue a silly and unfounded argument, feel free.  However, if you want the answer to what is going to happen with content in future releases I suggest you re-read the entire thread, I do not have the patience to repeat myself for one person that has a hangup over one model.

[HanClinto]

Did you seriously not understand this chain of thought, or are you just harassing me?

If you want to believe I am harassing you, feel free.

I'm sorry dmn_clown -- I shouldn't have used the word "harassing." I got overly frustrated and for that I apologize. Sorry for publicly suggesting that of you. I'll try to not let it happen again.

I do not have the patience to repeat myself for one person that has a hangup over one model.

For the record, this is hyperbole that is ignoring the breadth of the issue. It wasn't just me, and it wasn't just one model. It's a larger issue than that -- I respectfully hope that you can see that.

Why not, for 0. if enough people oppose as to having what some cultures would call nudity, make a separate add-on with the mature contents (that you can download if you provide your age), instead of having it pre-packed and embedded with the release.

That way we get:

• less complaints
• more respect as a serious community
• happy boys
• happy girls
• smaller downloads (if not using 'mature' content

If the spirit of Open Arena is to live on, it needs more players and a larger community, not the other way around.
Personally, if I want to see large breast while playing, I could play Leisure Suit Larry.

For whatever my small opinion may be worth, I'm impressed with this and find it a very good suggestion.

Respectfully,
clint

[hyp3rfocus]

tonnyx, i was interested by your comments,

I won't go into as much depth as far as distortion of women (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYhCn0jf46U).  Don't get me started on the insidious effects of changing men's expectations of women.

i've got a question for you, linda and any other women reading this. there are unrealistic portrayals of women in this and many other games, but i think it should be possible to provide attractive female characters that appeal to male gamers without alienating female players. could you give me suggestions to what you feel would strike a good balance between the two camps. maybe you could name celebrities that you think fit the part.