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Author Topic: Punkbuster with OA?  (Read 12135 times)
harvest
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« on: August 24, 2007, 12:17:20 PM »

I just read here: http://www.raiden.net/?aid=259  that OA will eventually support Punkbuster. Can anyone un/confirm this?
From the FAQs it seemed to me that this will never be the case. If anyone is aware of any threads or sites related to this topic I'd appreciate the info.
Thanks
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Kojiro_S
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 12:26:27 PM »

It won't happen. It has been stated that punkbuster will never be supported in OA.
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fromhell
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 12:42:06 PM »

It won't happen. Ever.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

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next_ghost
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 01:10:49 PM »

Whatever that guy who wrote the review had been smoking, it must be really good stuff. Flying Gargoyle XD
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harvest
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 01:27:33 PM »

It won't happen. Ever.
It won't happen. It has been stated that punkbuster will never be supported in OA.

Hmm. I apologize for my dumbness, but why not?
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next_ghost
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2007, 03:56:03 AM »

Hmm. I apologize for my dumbness, but why not?

PunkBuster isn't released under GPL and it probably won't work under GPL.
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dmn_clown
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2007, 09:19:59 AM »

http://ioquake3.org/?page=help

Quote
No really, ioquake3 will not work with PunkBuster. There are no workarounds,
play with your friends or well-administered servers. PunkBuster is closed source software and all the hooks for it were removed from Quake 3 before the source was released to the public.
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w1zrd
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2007, 09:26:24 AM »

And besides, we don't need Punkbuster since people aren't cheating here. If they are, then they'll be kicked out from our servers for being exceptionally stupid.
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harvest
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2007, 01:29:01 PM »

Thanks for the feedback everybody.
I didn't realize that the gpl'd source for quake3 didn't include the punkbuster linkage. It makes sense though given that pb is closed source. I suppose some kind of gpl release would have been required for pb's quake3 integration, if they would have included it.
On http://ioquake3.org/?page=status I noticed this:
While it is possible that someone could write an open-source equivalent of PunkBuster,
it's not very feasible for a number of reasons.
Guessing at a couple of reasons:
1. As w1zrd says, people who cheat (in oa) are dummies, and generally it's a non-issue, so why bother?
2. Developing and maintaining anticheat software is laden with hairiness. The scope of such a project can't be justified by the few open source programmers interested in implementing anti-cheat solutions.
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ALucas
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 03:59:24 AM »

the main reason is that all your anti-cheat checks are open source, thus people can look for holes in your code or other ways to circumvent the checks
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next_ghost
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2007, 06:26:54 AM »

the main reason is that all your anti-cheat checks are open source, thus people can look for holes in your code or other ways to circumvent the checks

Wrong, you can do that even without source codes. However, open source anticheat system is much easier to circumvent simply by running the checks on something else than the real binaries you use to play.
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harvest
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2007, 12:29:21 PM »

the main reason is that all your anti-cheat checks are open source, thus people can look for holes in your code or other ways to circumvent the checks

Wrong, you can do that even without source codes. However, open source anticheat system is much easier to circumvent simply by running the checks on something else than the real binaries you use to play.

If what you guys are saying is always true, this must be pretty depressing for the more hardcore open source minded people. As you likely know, security through obscurity is generally considered a bad thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity
But then again the performance required to have a networked fps worth playing probably doesn't scale to the complexity of a solution that is completely exposable to the general public. I've read/glanced over SecurePlay's (http://www.secureplay.com/) literature on their web-site, and they claim to have a solution that is generic and can be completely exposed to would-be hackers. From what I've read though, the solution basically requires you to build your app from the ground up with their protocols and algorithms. Ie. you could not easily integrate this with an already existing game like OA without major work and redesign. And so, I think most developers would find this solution too much of a hassle. Personally, I think a truly generic solution would not require a heavy rewrite, but that's probably a lot to ask. Does anyone else know anything about secureplay, or more importantly, open source-able anticheat solutions?
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next_ghost
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2007, 12:56:59 PM »

It's not always true but it's true about anticheat software which relies mostly on obscurity. For example, the Q3 pure check was written with obscurity in mind and bypassing it in ioQ3 takes just a few minutes. Some external Tremulous developers have done that in the past to playtest some cgame bugfixes and new features on real servers.

Open anticheat system can be written but it'll definitely take a lot more thinking than simple obscurity-based hacks currently used in closed-source games. On the other hand, it'll be much more reliable than all those obscurity-based hacks merged together.
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beast
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2007, 01:59:18 PM »

Does anyone else know anything about secureplay, or more importantly, open source-able anticheat solutions?

Urban Terror standalone (based on the ioquake engine) and Warsow use BattlEye. (http://www.battleye.com/)

It's not open source, but all of the interfaces needed to work with it are.
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fromhell
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« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2007, 02:39:47 PM »

ok, now try battleye on linux and mac and tell me of a positive experience
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
beast
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« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 08:04:55 PM »

I wasn't saying it was any good, just replying to the question asking if there was anything out there... Me personally, no thank you wrt battleye...
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