0.8.0 roadmap

[Joe le Kiffeur]

Well if you use 90 fov on a normal monitor you should use 108 on your current monitor as:

standard aspect ratio = 4:3

1920x1200 = 16:10

3/4 = 0.75

10 / 16 = 0.625

(90 * 0.75)/0.625 = 108


fyi fov means field of view, a.k.a. your viewing angle - which obviosuly would be a bit wider on a wide screen. All personal prefernce though obviously .

Thank you. I will try.

[andrewj]

standard aspect ratio = 4:3

1920x1200 = 16:10

3/4 = 0.75

10 / 16 = 0.625

(90 * 0.75)/0.625 = 108

That equation is not quite correct, you can't multiply angles like that.

Assuming the monitor itself physically has a 16:10 aspect (= 1.6) instead of the standard 4:3 (= 1.333) then the "normal" FOV for such a monitor would be:

tan(fov / 2) = 1.6 / 1.333

hence fov = 2 * atan(1.6 / 1.333) = 100.4 degrees

[RAZ3R]

Yeah, you're right. Cheers for correction.

[fufinha]

yeah nerfing the shadows to the point where there isn't any isn't advantageous alright

It could possibly improve the performance of someone playing on a low end set up but the option is not an advantage overall, more like a restriction. I probably read the post differently

[<< ME >>]

I probably read the post differently

Then dont post if you are not sure....!

[fufinha]

But I was absolutely sure at the time of post If anything you may want to reconsider nit picking my posts unless your are killing time and getting paid for it. I don't think your advice has enough substance I'm afraid - unless you could elaborate on some suggestions which I may be unaware of to prevent future quality issues regarding content.   

[Snickersnack]

yeah nerfing the shadows to the point where there isn't any isn't advantageous alright

It could possibly improve the performance of someone playing on a low end set up but the option is not an advantage overall, more like a restriction. I probably read the post differently

Missbehaving, could you say more on how vertex lighting is like a restriction? I'm pretty new to Quake3 based games so I'm still ignorant of a lot of the nuances.

Below are two pics of OA_DM2, a pretty dark level. Both have my normal brightness setting and the only difference between them is the r_vertexlight cvar. I've haven't experimented with the brightness settings too much on my current monitor, but on my old one I couldn't get it anywhere near that bright. Is there some disadvantage (other than general ugliness ) to seeing the game world this way?

It's just too bad displays don't all have the same brightness. It would be nice to have everyone seeing the same thing. Until then, I think I'll stick with seeing shadows.

[fromhell]

and that, there, is the reason vertex light is saying sayonara

[<< ME >>]

Noo..!!!   Plz, dont take it away..

[fromhell]

UPGRADE TO A DAMN VOODOO2 YOU SONOFA i mean how hard is it not not have a 2+ TMU card in 2008!? That's all that's needed for lossless fps for lightmap play.

[fufinha]

oh! Do not change the vertex light stuff in your config.. use the options for that. It can screw things up

btw.. i dont have a great gfx card, it's not so important if you use 800 display resolution, it also feels alot smoother.

Lightmap is far superior quality and you get all the strobe effects and such that makes it more atmospheric. There are also shadows spread round the map, shadows is one of the things I use to use as guides when jumping around.

Some areas are lit up by map lighting and others intentionally darker. Some of the glow from the floors and stuff adds realism. The usual issue is that you have to mess with your config a little by setting things like

r_gamma (try increasing a little)
r_intensity (try increasing a little)
r_mapoverbrightbits (0 - 3 ) I think i have this at 1
seta r_overBrightBits (0 - 3)

and maybe a couple of other things.. these will illuminate areas and there is another overbrightbits setting which lightend up the item stuff. The bloom stuff is crap, keep that at 0


here is my conf settings, i dunno how old it is..

seta r_lastValidRenderer ""
seta r_bloom_fast_sample "0"
seta r_bloom_sample_size "128"
seta r_bloom_darken "4"
seta r_bloom_intensity "1.3"
seta r_bloom_diamond_size "8"
seta r_bloom_alpha "0.3"
seta r_bloom "0"
seta r_GLlibCoolDownMsec "0"
seta r_primitives "0"
seta r_railSegmentLength "62"
seta r_railCoreWidth "4"
seta r_railWidth "6"
seta r_facePlaneCull "1"
seta r_gamma "1.6"
seta r_swapInterval "0"
seta r_textureMode "GL_LINEAR_MIPMAP_NEAREST"
seta r_finish "0"
seta r_dlightBacks "1"
seta r_dynamiclight "1"
seta r_drawSun "0"
seta r_fastsky "0"
seta r_ignoreGLErrors "1"
seta r_flares "0"
seta r_lodbias "1"
seta r_lodCurveError "250"
seta r_ignoreFastPath "1"
seta r_smp "0"
seta r_subdivisions "12"
seta r_vertexLight "0"
seta r_simpleMipMaps "1"
seta r_customPixelAspect "1"
seta r_customheight "1024"
seta r_customwidth "1600"
seta r_fullscreen "1"
seta r_mode "4"
seta r_ignorehwgamma "0"
seta r_overBrightBits "0"
seta r_depthbits "0"
seta r_stencilbits "0"
seta r_stereo "0"
seta r_colorbits "0"
seta r_texturebits "0"
seta r_detailtextures "0"
seta r_roundImagesDown "1"
seta r_picmip "1"

[<< ME >>]

UPGRADE TO A DAMN VOODOO2 YOU SONOFA i mean how hard is it not not have a 2+ TMU card in 2008!? That's all that's needed for lossless fps for lightmap play.

Ok u son of a bitch!!!
I have an ATI radeon Xpress 200 series in my PC and a NVidia in my MAC...!!!!!
I DO have a good video card, I have 2..! and thats not the bussiness here, I hope you to open ur tiny mind and sit only one day and being an OA player, and u will notice that a lot of maps are better using vertex light...
Try to understand thats its not only about the god damn video card, its a freaking game style and performance we are talking about, and when I say WE I mean all the ppl is going to hate you, and give a shit about you and this project if u keep doing some "dumb-ass-things"
I got really exited when I came here, and Im still exited about this, I love OA, but you are not thinking clearly the things..

Just be a gamer one fucking day and you will understand US. I claim for ur time and your understanding...
Its not onle <<ME>> its a lot of ppl who think in the same way.


And you should try to be a bit polite, I know this is not easy to do, but its not worth to be a DICK like you do sometimes... and notice that I say SOMETIMES.


Thx a lot.
And sorry to the other gamers for my bad language, Im not like this usually and you know <<ME>>

[fufinha]

omg.. i thought <ME> man was a moderator here

Have you tried jack thompsons config? I think he's went to extreme lengths to improve his game play.

[fromhell]

Just be a gamer one fucking day and you will understand US. I claim for ur time and your understanding...

I am a gamer, i've been gaming for over 20 years
i just don't game to absolutely-have-to-win motives for such cheats not letting the game look how it should look
i'll never understand the need to break fairness in a game with an obsolete feature for obsolete video hardware intended for hardware like Voodoo1/Banshee and RagePro no one really uses anymore.
Wake up people, it's 2008 and even onboard video can do enough good to not need vertex light!
Keeping Vertex Light... is like keeping Windows 3.1 installed... on your dual core 4ghz super computer!

[kit89]

I say goodbye to vertex lighting. It's a feature not required anymore.

The reason vertex was supported in the old days was because as fromhell said to allow lower end machines to run q3. Nowadays where a low end machine can play q3 on high setting & not break a sweat. Vertex lighting is not required anymore.

The only reason where you would want vertex lighting, is so you can visual see the other players clearer. Unlike the q3 where shadows didn't take a large part in the style of map, many OA maps do.

[fufinha]

I dont see any reason why it should be removed, although I prefer lightmap. Even on low graphics I have dark maps which look good as any map on OA, most people use bright skins as it's the only way it's fair.

The people who dont use bright skins are usually on vertex, like I was, just to actually see things. However, sound is the most important thing. You are usually heard before you are seen so you know exactly where the enemy is. They all sound the same, you know your own team on TDM so it's more tactical. This is how I usually have it, http://q3eu.com/flash/wtf/  - as I believe it should be.

As had been pointed out, new people wont know how to create settings suitable that most others will have already set and gain more advantage.

It's not all about graphic cards, some monitors dont have the same brightness or LCD as many others. They may have drivers which are more likely to be low in gamma and brightness. If people are using high res they might find that vertex suits them better.

To say its more unfair is not true whatsoever. All you do is push up intensity and gamma and turn off effects and you have something even more awful than vertex.

So now we will have more glowing lights and effects but a player with that dark suit thing is messing around some dark spot and a player spawns or ends up under a light is not going to be comfortable stressing their eyes to get a closer look and have an equal chance as the guy who is looking up ready to kill. Colored crosshairs and the potential to hit an enemy with skill and precision were two things that gives people the option to use the atmospheric effects. Gameplay became fair and even, especially on TDM as it was all about two different teams, and defence and attack were much more important. I dont think many people would enjoy being hit in the back of the head by someone hiding in a dark spot behind boxes.

I also think this is a health and safety issue for people who react to strobes and ends up causing a fit. Anyone can have a map on a server with stuff like that which maybe completely unexpected. Cant there just be additional options to select brightbits or have a few default options that people can try and have vertex disabled on startup.... I find some maps have the same kind of visibility changing one or two options  because some are too dark and some have too much darkness or light from one area to another. I remember first playing and always found lightmap annoying because all the flashy stuff and distances were difficult to view while you were just trying to learn the map a little for the first time.



 

 

[Mr. Oho]

Being a sucker for eyecandy i personaly couldnt care less about this setting but its sure one of those things 'experienced' players totaly love and completly removing it is going to bring you alot of whine. Maybe its worth a thought giving server admins a way to force/restrict client cvars if they feel its too much or simply want to unify the way players see stuff and thereby redirecting the whining theyr way?

[fromhell]

Even a thought of servers restricting cvars kicking out players harmlessly brings a lot of whine to the table
This is one of the reasons the project died in March because I really can't win on trying to get the game I intend to look since everyone plays it flat
annoying for someone pumping the detail 2x/3x.

hmm i forgot about intensity, there is a chance that might go too.

[<< ME >>]

Well, as I said, of course you can do whatever you want fromhell, but you know that a lot of players wont agree with ur decisions... Oh, wait, one moment... who cares really?
And Mr. Oho, "experienced" players wont whine cause of this, we will find just another way to fight against THIS, can you see the damn bot? Nooooo you cant!

Its ok if you are playing games like Hitman Blood Money or maybe if u play Doom3 but OA game style is completly different...
Anyways, as I said, I hope you are taking the best choice my friend, cause you should think in the whole community.

[Mr. Oho]

Ohoh what did i do

fromhell:

Agreed thered still be whining but it wouldnt be you (or the project) who is the bad boy but the evil admin who restricted it. Also it would leave the descission to the player to join a server that deprives them of theyr beloved 'nightsight' or simply looking somewhere else. And i also agree kicking people for violations 'punkbuster style' is bad but restrictions wouldnt have to be enforced by kicking people. Forcing cvars to the nearest 'legal' value would work just fine. I dont say its perfect but maybe worth a thought.

<< ME >>:

Well i can. Its hard but i see him and no not just because he has a chat sprite above his head. Anyways it wouldnt matter much if i didnt. I call it whining because people dont want the setting for what its intended to be but to make areas visible that arent supposed to. If you just want fair play thats fine with me but then the best solution would possibly be giving everyone the same (dis-)advantage (read as: forced models/skins - yes its not that easy in team based gametypes) than removing the problematic areas. Btw: I dont think it matters much what game you play. Seeing targets as early as possibly is always an advantage.

[fromhell]

THIS, can you see the damn bot? Nooooo you cant!

It would help to see him if you didn't delete his textures.

Forcing cvars to the nearest 'legal' value would work just fine.

Problem is, that the cvars in question require a renderer restart.

it's not my loss since popularity is not really my goal (expecting for this sentence to be taken completely out of context like OMG I HATE THE PLAYERS). OA is experiemental and if I do something that happens to piss off the 'pros' then so be it.
See the screenshots in this post to see why keeping vertex lighting would mean anti-advancement.
0.8.0 will be the missionpack version and missionpack will definitely call for terrain maps like that, so I can't let this stupid crap happen.

[Mr. Oho]

Haha this is kinda cruel Didnt know it could have effects this drastic. The poor guy would possibly spend half his time running into invisible walls

Editwar:

Forcing cvars to the nearest 'legal' value would work just fine.

Problem is, that the cvars in question require a renderer restart.

Nothing stopping the client from doing this But with this kinda screenshots its possibly not worth it.

[<< ME >>]

THIS, can you see the damn bot? Nooooo you cant!

It would help to see him if you didn't delete his textures.

I didnt delete any texture..!

And you are right, there are SOME maps, only a few.. mainly water maps where vertex is completly a disadvantage, but in some others like the pic I posted its useful, and a lot.!


And I would like to ask you fromhell to put a message so every ASSHOLE can read, something like "if you are not going to apport anything and just talking shit and making fun of something serious, then dude, shut ur mouth and go watch some p0rn or something"
Is that possible??
Mr Oho can make a good use of that..

Thanks for ur time fromhell

[Mr. Oho]

And I would like to ask you fromhell to put a message so every ASSHOLE can read, something like "if you are not going to apport anything and just talking shit and making fun of something serious, then dude, shut ur mouth and go watch some p0rn or something"
Is that possible??
Mr Oho can make a good use of that..

Haha what does apport mean? I have a feeling your trying to flame me but im not sure as i dont understand what you say

[<< ME >>]

I REPEAT

"if you are not going to --contribute-- and just talking shit and making fun of something serious, then dude, shut ur mouth and go watch some p0rn or something"

And yes, sorry, In my rush I wrote shit.
Its not my intention to fight with anyone, so plz, dont post a reply to this.

Thanks