CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING is non-Free

[fromhell]

http://www.planetCRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING.com

I hate it.

It's just OpenArena packed with entirely non-free and license conflicting content as well as borrowed content freely available from the internet without credit (obvious example is MTE'S Phaser rocket launcher replacement). Even worse, the (windows, haven't tried others) installer asks you if you want to download copyright infringing conversions of Star Trek Elite Force levels from the full version. Pretty low for a "100% gpl" game, isn't it?

In addition, they also steal Q3A's content like bot code, explosion sound, with their itmestamps from 1999 intact even. They also improved my oa_bases3 map, without credit or even source.

They also try to relicense it all under a Creative Commons Sharealike license, although their entry on the linux game tome (which was written by shafe, their leader) states the media is 100% GPL.

Simply delusional.

I don't like ranting, but when someone just uses OpenArena as an illegal project's piggyback, I get very mad.

This screenshot should sum it all up. Elite Force's ctf map, map textures and skybox, Tremulous's large armor, Schwimmelpuckel's Phaser Rifle railgun replacement, OpenArena's grism, gibs and text, all ctrl-v'd to make a "GPL" game called CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING.

WTF.

[fromhell]

Just to clear things up for you, your posts were abusive. Secondly, CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING is 100% Free, and all this "Stolen" content you're on about is generally just fillers for now which will be removed in the near future, or things that are under the GPL license.

If you have anything abusive to say, I suggest you keep it to yourself because I do not have time for your childish remarks over such a subject.

Yeah, right.

[dmn_clown]

Just to clear things up for you, your posts were abusive. Secondly, CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING is 100% Free, and all this "Stolen" content you're on about is generally just fillers for now which will be removed in the near future, or things that are under the GPL license.

If you have anything abusive to say, I suggest you keep it to yourself because I do not have time for your childish remarks over such a subject.

Yeah, right.

Some people understand what software libre is about, and others don't. 

It should be pointed out that without gaining the Copyright holders permission to re-use their models/artwork/code/etc. _AND_ by relicensing said artwork/models/code/etc. they have broken Copyright law, in effect the game is not non-free, it is illegal (At least by my understanding of current US copyright law).

Ccopyright law protects against this sort of behavior, i.e. if you have the copyright to any of their files/artwork/levels/anything you can ask them to remove the offending files from their project and they have to comply.  You do not lose any rights by placing anything under the GPL, you just force others to license their derivatives under the GPL. 

Granted, that is kind of a heavy handed way to go about doing things... but the FSF (Free Software Foundation) should back you up on this.

Oh and IANAL, so this advise shouldn't be taken as a legal advice.

[fromhell]

http://www.planetCRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=545

Hey, their maturity is showing!

What's also funny is that they ip-banned me from the entire site, so they are certainly up to something.

[dmn_clown]

I just hope they have good lawyers if people decide to press the copyright issue.

[mczero]

That's nasty. The best way to handle this could be by advertising OpenArena, to tell the people that OA is really a project on its own which is really free.

And, of course, by boosting its content quality.

People always begin new projects, and where do many end after a while?
www.justanexample.net --> 404 File not found
(Okay, I was one of them, I thought I could code a game on my own... I learnt from this mistake)

Hmm better would be to participate on existing projects, if they have the same goal/view of things/codebase.

Conclusion --> Let's raise OpenArenas potential, not something other!

[mczero]

Although I will take a look on it, make my thoughts and then...

then its time to vaporise the garbage CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING...

...and happily launching OpenArena.

[SkareKrow]

First of all, thank you for allowing me to sign up. I'm from the Trep. development team as I think you knew already. If not.... hi.. lol.

OK lets see if we can resolve this peacefully. We have praised OA since day one. Without you guys, we wouldn't be as far as we are right now.

I changed oa_bases3 because it was such a poorly done map with no imagination to it and also with overlapping brushes everywhere. Not meaning to offend or anything.

The reason for the ban was mostly because of anger. If you thought we did something wrong, why not just tell us?

I'm not trying to start a fight or any useless thing like that. I'm just trying to lay to rest what some one else started. Let us settle this in a mature manner.

[fromhell]

I changed oa_bases3 because it was such a poorly done map with no imagination to it and also with overlapping brushes everywhere. Not meaning to offend or anything.

I'm not offended at it being changed, but the simple fact there is no .MAP source shared at all. My map was under the GNU GPL and that cannot be changed.

If you thought we did something wrong, why not just tell us?

Kinda hard when you blatantly delete my user account off the site. What's wrong? It's released, with "filler" that have no authorization at all to use.  I easily recognize Schwimmelpuckel's phaser rifle railgun replacement, Redlemons' BFG, Krakarth's Plasma Rifle (which is based on WH40K IP), MTE's Rocket Launcher, Lee David Ash's gauntlet, plasma, grenade launcher, machinegun, shotgun... all without mention of their names, also perhaps without permission.  The license of these files have apparently changed to a sharealike Creative Commons license, and it is illegal to relicense other's work without express permission.

And of course, Tremulous's license is also violated with the inclusion of their assets (yes, Timbo knows about this)

[SkareKrow]

I changed oa_bases3 because it was such a poorly done map with no imagination to it and also with overlapping brushes everywhere. Not meaning to offend or anything.

I'm not offended at it being changed, but the simple fact there is no .MAP source shared at all. My map was under the GNU GPL and that cannot be changed.

If you thought we did something wrong, why not just tell us?

Kinda hard when you blatantly delete my user account off the site. What's wrong? It's released, with "filler" that have no authorization at all to use.

I'm not good with the legal things. I always share if some one asks. But if having the .map file accessable is the only problem, I dont see why we cant do that.

And I deleted your account right before I banned you. Did some one delete it before that? If they did, I can tell you its because your posts made you come off as quite a "donkey".

[fromhell]

I only made one post at the forum some months back asking if these "filler" stuff will never see the light of day in a release.

It's released, and look what's happened!

[SkareKrow]

I only made one post at the forum some months back asking if these "filler" stuff will never see the light of day in a release.

It's released, and look what's happened!

Well no, you made two posts. Dont know what the other was about. And I'm not 100% on why there was a release. Last we discussed it, we agreed not to release anything until later.

Also, Shafe isnt the leader, we have no leader. Everybody makes that mistake.

[SkareKrow]

Most everything is filler at the moment, that was the argument for not releasing a public build. All of this could have been avoided. Again, I have no idea why we released it.

[fromhell]

Probably because for publicity, especially since Shafe registered it at the Linux Game Tome with a download link, with a bunch of false "Hey it's 100% free software!" hype in it.

[SkareKrow]

OK, so whats left to discuss?

[dmn_clown]

I'm not good with the legal things. I always share if some one asks. But if having the .map file accessable is the only problem, I dont see why we cant do that.

Unfortunately you no longer have the luxury of being able to ignore the legal things, you gave that up when you decided to release software to the public.  I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you do have to educate yourself as to what you can and cannot do legally.  You can't re-license _anything_ that your people haven't done, only the original copyright holder can do so, that applies to every bit of code, every model, every sound file, and all of the textures visible or not.    Which is basically what you have done, whether it was filler material or not is besides the point.

Here are some links that may or may not be helpful to you:
- http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html
- http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
- http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

Yes, it is tedious reading, but it is in your best interest to read and understand the above.

[SkareKrow]

LOL, you say "your people" like I'm in charge and I own them. I'm usually good with legal things on small notes. This stuff is a bit over my head and I expected other people to read over everything. I do need to learn more about this, but not at this moment. I hope to learn more in college. At this time, its not necessary.

[dmn_clown]

LOL, you say "your people" like I'm in charge and I own them. I'm usually good with legal things on small notes. This stuff is a bit over my head and I expected other people to read over everything. I do need to learn more about this, but not at this moment. I hope to learn more in college. At this time, its not necessary.

The problem is a lot of really good projects have been sued or threatened into the ground by people that expected others to read over the legal crap, anyone remember Freecraft?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratagus and then there is bnetd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bnetd

On the bright side, none of us have to deal with the patent issues that the guys that are working on the various media players have to wade through.

[edit] well except for maybe this patent http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=4,698,672.PN.&OS=PN/4,698,672&RS=PN/4,698,672

Which Forgent Networks just settled a case over. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061103-8146.html Though that patent will hopefully be revoked before it expires next year.

[Reenen]

Right... everyone stop b*tching! :-)

The way I understand it is that leileilol is worried/upset about the fact that CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING is violating the GPL.

Which it does because quoting from the derivatee's words:

I changed oa_bases3 because it was such a poorly done map with no imagination to it and also with overlapping brushes everywhere. Not meaning to offend or anything.

If you made a derivative work (ie. you started with his .map file), then you must credit the original author for his work, and say what you've changed. This is what GPL means.  Also, you must make your source (your .map file) publically available.  If you don't you are violating the GPL.

So to SkareKrow: To fix this is easy... create a Credits.txt file (if you don't have one already), and give credits to things that you've used.  Even if it's only filler, if it's in your game, you must give credit.  Also state things you've changed.

For instance.  If you created a new railgun, but started off with someone else's gun, say so.  Say you made it more complex, more sleek looking, changed the skin, whatever you did.

Also I think it's generally a good idea to not use personal remarks in your comments. So better wording of the abovementioned sentence would be:

Optimized oa_bases3, and improved the playability.

[tuppe666]

From someone who hoped this thread would die. leileilol is not bitching/worried/upset he simply has created his work, and chosen a license for this work that reflects how he wants to his work to be treated.  He is not unique in this id chose to keep their content for quake3; CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING are putting their content under the creative commons license. Its actually very little to do with GPL.

OpenArena is not a multiple license project, you can see from all the posts; leileilol has been very careful not to taint the project with anything thats not compatible, and there are many instances of this all over the forums.

GPL does not mean you credit the author and release the .map ans say whats changed...it means *everything* thats every .map; every sound; every graphics in the whole project. This should be done, or the GPL work simply removed. There is no compromise.

You are trying to argue that, because its a little free(sic) project. It doesn't matter, and I could understand you if the rest of the content wasn't licensed under creative commons. Clearly the License does matter enough for CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING to do that, and have their work protected by that License.

CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING has not complied with leileilol requests. leileilol can either relicense his work for CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING; turn a blind eye; or defend his work in court, and I suspect leileilol wants to do none of these things.

The only *decent* solutions is simply that the CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONINGs content is put under GPL, or *All* content from OpenArena is removed.

[Reenen]

Oops...

Ok... Maybe I talked too soon...

Let me get it straight... OpenArena is GPL.  Totally. (I didn't see any other liscensing)

Whilst CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING is "Free" 100%.  No GPL?

[tuppe666]

From OpenArena website -
"OpenArena is an open-source content package for Quake III Arena licensed under the GPL, effectively creating a free stand-alone game"

From CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING website -
"CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING intends to be a free multiplayer first person shooter based on the IOQ3 Quake 3 Engine. The game media will fall under the creative commons license with a few exceptions that fall under the GPL v2."

Its simple the content from CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING needs to either be removed, or the game needs to move to GPL. Your getting bogged down in "what people can get away with" rather than, "Respecting others work".

[Reenen]

Ok, so leileilol don't want his stuff to be Creative Commons.  But GPL?

So can't they just add his stuff to that part of the "few exceptions"?

[tuppe666]

Again your concentrating on "what people can get away with"

You cannot mix Creative Commons with GPL. This water is muddied with the various dual-licensing stuff kicking around.

CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING do not want there stuff under GPL. The onus is on CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING not leileilol to sort out there licensing problems.

Again the license is not important...its just a way of enforcing how you want *your* work used. Its a lot of work to create a game on this scale, rather than do that work, they used others work without permission, or under the instructions accompanying the content they used.

To be absolutely honest I cannot see a reason why CRAPPY FRANKENSTEIN PATCHWORK PIECE OF CRAP GAME NOT WORTH MENTIONING should not either comply, or become GPL.

[dmn_clown]

If you made a derivative work (ie. you started with his .map file), then you must credit the original author for his work, and say what you've changed. This is what GPL means.  Also, you must make your source (your .map file) publically available.  If you don't you are violating the GPL.

You also _MUST_ license the derivitive under the GPL.

2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
    stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

    b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
    whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
    part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
    parties under the terms of this License.

    c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively
    when run, you must cause it, when started running for such
    interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an
    announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a
    notice that there is no warranty (or else, saying that you provide
    a warranty) and that users may redistribute the program under
    these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this
    License.  (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but
    does not normally print such an announcement, your work based on
    the Program is not required to print an announcement.)

http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/info/GPLv2.html