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Author Topic: SDL Alternative 2nd try (test this or you will never aim again)  (Read 13371 times)
sago007
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« on: August 01, 2008, 10:03:42 AM »

I was contacted by Tim Angus some hours ago and he provided my with some interesting information about SDL input (http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=265).

I have previously released a SDL version that allowed Caps-Lock and Scroll-Lock to be used as keys and this one should even fix the mouse thing:
http://brie.ostenfeld.dk/~poul19/public_files/SDLalternative20080801.zip

If this work I can remove the hack I used in the latest test binaries.

This should be used on a 0.7.7 installation (or any other 3d shooter using SDL)

Installation instructions: Replace old SDL.dll with the SDL.dll from the archive.

EDIT:
This only changes fullscreen behavior while the 0.8.0 20008-07-25 hack affects windowed too.

Edit 2:
Link to bug
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 10:19:50 AM by sago007 » Logged

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fromhell
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 01:07:24 AM »

Mouse is faster, but is still unresponsive.

Try turning the mouse left and right, linearly, without moving the player. It's smooth.

Now move in one direction and turn the mouse left and right. You'll notice it's then uneven and erratic.

Sad
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sago007
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2008, 04:41:39 AM »

Tim Angus said I needed to set SDL_VIDEODRIVER to directx. That was not necessary for me.

I have a hard time feeling that the mouse is uneven at a low framerate because the whole screen is uneven.

I did try to make the mouse less framerate dependent in 0.7.6 (to avoid sticky keys and information drop at low framerate) but removed the hack again in 0.7.7 and none seemed to notice any difference.

And that is bad because I really had my hopes high for the 0.7.6 way of archiving framerate independence.
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fromhell
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2008, 05:57:44 AM »

:/ guess we'll have to stick to 0.7.1 code or so until the new mouse really works for real, for some future version
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Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
pulchr
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 08:27:48 AM »

i tried the sdl.dll in the zip and i'm sorry to say that it felt very wrong. fast movements like after a rocket jump on a jump pad the screen spins like crazy and far too long. fast movements to land a rail also fails miserably.

the 0.8.0 binaries where better but not as good as the 0.7.1 version. i've been switching back and forth from them now playing the same map for an hour Tongue

edit: i have 125fps steady so frame rate going up and down is not a problem for me.
using win xp and got mouseacceleration switched on in the os-settings.
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CFQ
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 10:32:33 AM »

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« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 09:08:32 PM by CFQ » Logged

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pulchr
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 10:53:37 AM »

In linux I noticed exactly the opposite

ok,
i'm just reporting what i felt using windows. i have no idea how the input is handled by different operating systems.

i just know that i want the mouse to feel and react to my movements as it always have done in the past (oa 0.7.1 and quake 3 for several years).
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woekele
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2008, 04:14:33 PM »

Hey fromhell, I'm on winxp and used to experience the same thing as you with SDL input. Looking around normally = smooth. Looking around + pressing keys on keyboard = sluggish. With the latest ioq3 svn + a modified sdl.dll that Timbo/tma/Tim Angus sent me (it's about 1.6MB, get it from http://icculus.org/~tma/SDL.dll), I don't have the sluggish'ness anymore. Everything seems smooth. For now, this is only in fullscreen. In window-mode, the mouse is still sluggish when pressing multiple keys + looking around. But hey, it's a start! Maybe you can try it too?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 04:22:51 AM by woekele » Logged
sago007
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2008, 04:26:50 PM »

About 3 hours ago there was a commit to ioquake3 that fixed crash on exit in Windows with openAL enabled and another one that forces the new SDL.dll to use the DirectX backend (mine was already but apparently that is platform dependent)
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woekele
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2008, 08:48:49 AM »

I don't know if sagoo's dll has the same effect as Timbo's one.

I'm wondering if fromhell also no longer has sluggishness, using the method I described??
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sago007
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 08:55:18 AM »

I don't know if sagoo's dll has the same effect as Timbo's one.

It should have. I patched it according to Timbo's description.
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woekele
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2008, 04:25:36 PM »

But his is 1.6MB, yours only 300KB. Could very well still have the same effect. But never hurts to try Smiley

fromhell, have you tested it?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 05:10:32 AM by woekele » Logged
fromhell
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2008, 05:51:04 AM »

fromhell, have you tested it?
yes, and it's 'speedier' though it is sluggish when you turn while moving.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
woekele
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2008, 06:51:48 AM »

Hmmm, odd. Different experience than I'm having. I wonder why. Just to be sure, can you confirm the following things:

-using the sdl.dll I linked you to (the 1.6MB one)
-using ioquake3 svn head (1436 or higher)
-using fullscreen
-when starting ioquake3 with these 3 prequisits and opening console and scrolling up, what does it say after 'SDL using Driver:' ?

Does it only feel sluggish while moving, or also when pressing and holding keys that are not even binded to anything?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 07:02:30 AM by woekele » Logged
woekele
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2008, 03:00:44 AM »

Okay, upgraded to even newer svn and a new sdl.dll by tim angus and now mouse works fine also in window-mode. Both in_mouse 1 (directx) and in_mouse -1 (windib) work. Also mouse4 and mouse5 are detected in both in_mouse modes.
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woekele
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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2008, 09:12:49 AM »

yay, ioq3 svn 1142 + http://icculus.org/~tma/SDL.dll seems to rock for me. Everything (input related) working as it should.
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fufinha
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2008, 04:11:53 AM »

I hate to bring this up again, but what exactly is the fix for this issue. It's been a right pain having to do comparisons but it's very clear there's a problem. I don't even notice it too much because I move the mouse in a small area and don't use accell, so I put it to the test.
3 people tried it out without me mentioning it. One player noticed it right away, they use accell and have a high spec mouse. The other people kept stopping to change settings and then pointing out issues with pmove. I know this is a seperate issue of it's own when pmove is net based but throw in the input issue then the effects are more severe.

I have read the odd post about how people can overcome it but I don't even know if it's a client or server issue. If it's a client issue then is the fix in the latest version? Do people fix their own problems  because it's their tough luck? If anyone wants or feels the need to compare input then the only way to do so is 0.71. I can put up two identical servers if there isn't any there already, although I feel I've spent enough time on it. I know 99% of players, especially good players wont do little more than spend a short time on the forum/docs. But they downloaded the latest version from here. When someone mentioned the issue where the mouse freezes then that's when I realised this is affecting everyone. Many people will not notice it as much and certainly, anyone trying out OA for the first time aren't going to have issues. I had to be convinced myself that there was a problem with it.

If I spend hours trying to adjust yaw and stuff to try and improve it then any improvement will likely improve 0.71 too.

The netbased fps issue is much less of an issue since that can be the choice of the server admin.  I don't know if the dev team are familiar with these guys but this thread helps clarify some notes..
http://forums.wireheadstudios.org/index.php?topic=3553.msg39252#msg39252
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epicgoo
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2008, 05:29:15 AM »

how come that clarifies anything? it only clarifies that phoenix is stupid noob
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