reloaded: hydronex

[Peter Silie]

i have some little ideas, how you could optimize hydronex.
maybe i can contact one of the mappers so he could realize my ideas.
here are the points, that seems uncomplicated and fast to realize for me (i am no mapper!):
1. remove the rail from the towers. no more campers.
2. remove the water. the ramps to get out of the pools, must be extended (in both directions, horizontal and vertical) and the seperating plate between the pools must have an opening. maybe a huge battleground at the bottom makes sense? the way throug the pools will be more usefull and not painfull (maybe a rail can be put in the middle, depends on gameplay and has to be tested).
3. make one opening to the left and to the right at the walls to the flagroom (besides the main entrance). with this solution the players have 3 entrances to the flagroom. they also need more than one exit (jumppads in the flagroom to use the new doorways?) ;-)
4. the bridges should be broaden at their ends so everyone can move faster from one base to the other base. with the current release only experts can strafe from one end to the other...

What do you think about it?

[Neon_Knight]

Without water it won't be Hydronex anymore.
Maybe giving some more water entrances so Sniper towers can be avoidables can work.

[Peter Silie]

Without water it won't be Hydronex anymore.

maybe we can could it "hydronex2 - beyond the climatic desaster" ;-)

[Neon_Knight]

This is my idea:



Obviously there should be two ways to enter from the ramps (two ramps?) and two tubes which will lead to between sniper tower and enemy base.

[Bungle]

I too would like to see some substantial improvements to this map. Alot of the CTF servers I frequent have removed this from the listing, and those that haven't, often have players voting to go to the next one, else players tend to leave/spectate. I for one really do not like this map now for many of the primary reasons mentioned above, specifically the rail camping and lack of access to the flag room (even campers with rockets here can make it difficult at the sole entrance).

It's not an "all round" map anyone will any level of experience can play, and even those that are reasonably good players still fall foul of the camping. AM's screenshot shows a viable potential improvement to improve access, however I do think it also needs to go further than that! I do think given the name of the map and its focus, water should be used alot more than it is, maybe even routes to get from one end of the map to the other with suitably placed breathing points.

[Neon_Knight]

Well, the middle entrance to area can be replaced with two entrances at sides, and a third one in which you should rocket-jump, but with some good rewards in there.

Also, putting Railgun off the Sniper area and no ammo, so you should go back to the floor to pick it up can be a good idea, but in Missionpack there's the Ammo Regen, so I think put it off the map can be nice as well.

[Neon_Knight]

I've made some changes to the map. It's called Hydronex2.

Basic changes:
- Added one more water ramp.
- Railgun & ammo removed from sniper spot.
- Added a 5-shot 30-sec of respawn Railgun at the sniper spot entrance.
- Removed single central entrance and added 2 more entrances.
- Switched places between flag/obelisk base and Rocket launcher in bases.
- New levelshot, it now shows one of sniper spots instead of one of the flag bases.
- Support for 1FCTF, Harvester, Overload, and CTFElimination.
- Missionpack: Replaced Ammo Regen for Doubler, and added one more Scout & Guard, all of this in each base.

New version changes:
- Replaced bridges with jumppads at both sides. Those will kick you from sides to center and viceversa.
- Waterramps enlarged to the floor.
- Added spawn room to flag bases. These are separated by a wall from the rest of the map, so you won't suffer spawncampers while spawn there. This also means flag bases were reduced.
- Redone boxes (these are now models, and are different boxes than the original ones) at outside area, and added some more.
- Redone floors: now they incorporate weapon spawnspots.
- Redone entrances to flag bases: these are now more separated.
- Base Lights are back.

Changes still appearing, I hope these will be the last ones:
- Redone jumppads, now all of them are botdonotentered and balanced.
- Minor structural changes to the map.
- Added flag/obelisk bases.
- Replaced two misplaced botclips.
- Rehinted the map. Hopefully it don't draw all the map anymore. I should still learn how to hint & clusterportal properly my maps.
- Removed boxes which covered ammo and prox/chain.

More changes: (b1)
- Middle wall extended to all center area, plus made 3 connections between blue & red sides. One of these is for neutral items (White flag/skull generator) and the other 2 are just simple passages.
- Added a connection between the two underwater sewers, which has a Quad Damage and a breathing pool. This Quad has a duration of 45 sec, since 15 of those secs will be inverted in getting out of the water. Cheesy
- Added two more access to flag base from the outside area. There're now 4 ways to enter to the flag base.
- Big, HUGE weapon & item placement changes. In the spawn room you'll find Rail and Prox, but no ammo for them. In the flag base area you'll find Rocket & Shotgun. In the two mini-houses between sniper spots and flag bases there're Grenade and Chaingun. In the original Rail place on the last Hydro2 you'll find Lightning Gun. Alongside of the sniper spot you'll find Plasma & Nailgun. Also, I've assured that ammo for weapons are a little bit far from their respective weapon spawn. You won't find Lightning ammo near Lightning gun, for example. You won't find Rail slugs near sniper spots.
- Added two more water ramps.
- Changed launchpads, these won't be diagonal anymore.
- Added more 5-health, 25-health, 50-health and armor shards to map.
- Changed Combat armor in water area for Body armor.
- Arrows guiding to bases.
- Minor structural changes.

Only item placement changes: (b2)
- Hinting. I hope it works...
- Weapon replacements:
  * Spawn rooms: Replaced Railgun for Shotgun. Also added Shells & Bullets.
  * Flag room: Replaced Rocket Launcher for Plasmagun & Shotgun for Rocket Launcher.
  * Left entrance: (from Flag Base room) Replaced Chaingun with Lightning Gun.
  * Right entrance: (from Flag Base room) Replaced Grenade Launcher with Railgun.
  * Outside, behind Sniper tower: Replaced Lightning Gun with Grenade Launcher.
  * Outside, at the left of Sniper Tower: Replaced Plasmagun with Chaingun.
- Redistributed ammo. Mine Layer only have one ammo box, and is at the middle area in each base.
- Deleted two 50-health items at bases, and moved the other two more forward.
- target_locations have now their messages well done.
- Removed 5 health-5 items in front of sniper tower.

Last changes, I promise: (b3)
- Added Team Items: 2x Doubler, 2x Guard, 2x Scout at both bases, plus their own spawnspots.
- Added Kamikaze and make it cycle with Regeneration.
- Deleted two unbalancing healths at red base.
- Deleted one shell box and one bullet box at both spawn rooms.
- Switched ammos: Nailbox & Beltbox near sniper tower, and Cellbox near the Megahealth and Grenadebox at the bases.
- Added a shader which replaces moonsky.
- Clipped middle area ceilings, to avoid camping from here.
- Added a minor detail: two faulting arrow signals in red base.
- Added minor details: arrows at spawn spots.

Well, I didn't saw a thing. -.-
- Fixed water. Also rescaled its texturizing.
- Added boxes. (I wanted them back with the map)

Hydronex3 changes:

- More boxes added and spreaded to be used as cover points.
- Ramps now behaves as stairs. Easier to climb.
- Deleted Prox Launchers and Railguns (ammo for Prox too) and added just one RG and one PL at the middle area. I'll leave to you the thinking.
- Replaced MHs by Battle Suits.
- Replaced PL on Spawnrooms with another RL. I guess this map now is very RL-friendly.
- Raised the ceiling of the entire outer area.
- Added 2 more DOM points, which makes for a total of 5 points. These are between the sniper spot and the flag rooms.
- Center wall changes: new holes with the raising, holding each one one of the following items: RG, PL, and Kamikaze. Regeneration will stay on the middle area, and will be replaced by neutral items on the other gametypes.
- New entrance to bases. Did I mention that I adapted this map to be rocketjump-friendly? Also fixed the lateral ones for the sake of vis.
- Minor changes.

All suggestions are welcome.

Screens:

Download

[Peter Silie]

switching flag and RL could be _the_ idea for this map.
i hope, that cacatoes will bring it up on his betamaps-server! as soon i will find it i will play it.
thx am that you gave it a try!

[Neon_Knight]

Hey! There's a download link below screenshots.

[Peter Silie]

i know, but it is better to play a map against real players then the boring bots ;-)
anyway: i have tested the map (and i am impressed about the speed of your answer) and only three ideas (minor issues!):
1. can you move the entrances more to the wallside of the map. if the entrances have more spaces between them, the battleground will be more used.
2. can you make the waterramps touching the ground? it could help (noob-)players to get faster out of the water.
3. the end of the flaghalls seems unused now. maybe a secret entrance from water to the end of the hall could resolve this problem.

on the other hand: your changes could do the turn for hydronex!
thank you very much armageddon_man!

[Neon_Knight]

1- Yes, those entrances were too close each other. I'll see what can I do there.
2- Yes, that's a good one, I promise it'll be in the next version.
3- I have the idea to make a spawnspot (wall-blocked, of course) in that unused area in which players can teleport to different areas of the map after spawning and arming themselves. I thought also of the underwater entrance, but it'll be another McKinleyish map if I put that.

[Peter Silie]

you are to fast for me
big thx!

[Neon_Knight]

I'll add those items to To Do list.
I want more people to test this map and see what more things can be improved.

[Neon_Knight]

Just to keep you up-to-date while I finish and upload new version of hydronex2 tonight:

- Replaced bridges with jumppads at both sides. Those will kick you from sides to center and viceversa.
- Waterramps enlarged to the floor.
- Added spawn room to flag bases. These are separated by a wall from the rest of the map, so you won't suffer spawncampers while spawn there. This also means flag bases were reduced.
- Redone boxes (these are now models, and are different boxes than the original ones) at outside area, and added some more.
- Redone floors: now they incorporate weapon spawnspots.
- Redone entrances to flag bases: these are now more separated.
- Base Lights are back.

[Neon_Knight]

Map is up, with changes from above. Cacatoes, you know what to do.

Link is in this post.

[Neon_Knight]

I wasn't happy with what I did with the map, specially those boxes I put on there, so I'm making changes to the map. Also, I've found two misplaced botclips which made bots don't go for the flag, since it was placed in the flag base.

Changelist, I hope to get it working before tomorrow:
- Redone jumppads, now all of them are botdonotentered and balanced.
- Minor structural changes to the map.
- Added flag/obelisk bases.
- Rehinted the map. Hopefully it don't draw all the map anymore. I should still learn how to hint & clusterportal properly my maps.
- Removed boxes which covered ammo and prox/chain.

[Neon_Knight]

Done, with above changes.
I hope this will be the final one. Anyways, your thoughts are welcome.

Head up here to download and see screens. And Cacatoes... you know what to do.

[andrewj]

The smaller flag rooms are a lot better, and the jump pads are pretty cool.

I didn't like the Regeneration powerup in the middle of the map, there is already plenty of health with the megahealths in both bases.  So I suggest something different there, perhaps the red armor.

[Peter Silie]

now this map can have a chance to be played by the community.
great job AM! and a lot of thx too!

[Neon_Knight]

I guess the point with water isn't to get rid entirely of it, but to use it in the same way with powerful powerups: if you want something of it, you should make an effort... and swim.

Honestly, I didn't like that Regen item at the middle area, I wanted to make a connection between the two underwater sewers and put a powerup at the middle area, but I think I fucked up those, so I decided to keep that item on the surface and those sewers as these are.

[menganito]

Would it be possible to place a jumppad underwater? So that it woul shoot me out of the water? I imagine people shooting out of the water would be a cool thing to see...
Otherwise, map's nice with those jumps now, but the rail has got much more powerful with them. Tested with bots only, tho...

[Neon_Knight]

Rail will always be a problem, as well as RL, NG, BFG and all the other weapons.
It isn't a personal attack against noone, I have to say.

[Cacatoes]

Would it be possible to place a jumppad underwater? So that it woul shoot me out of the water? I imagine people shooting out of the water would be a cool thing to see...

Dolphins ? :p The idea could be fun ; I was wondering if we were able to get out of the water with some RJ, it's possible when on top of a tunnel.

Still, I feel there isn't enough RL on hydronex2, and rail is still too close from the "camping platform" ; it's better if weapons like rail require some effort to get.
I was also wondering if these jumpads to go from one side to another wouldn't make it too easy for railers.

[Neon_Knight]

So... I should have left that 5-ammo 30-sec-of-respawn Railgun that was in the earlier version...

[PsYthe]

I am against the fact that you can max out ammo for a weapon very easily on hydronex. Same with oasago2. When I say "max out" I mean how weapons always seem to have ammo right near them - the "official" maps that I've seen would have lightning ammo (and not a ton of it) in the flag area, but have the lightning gun all the way in the middle. This seems to create good gameplay. I wouldn't know what to do about the weapon/ammo layout though, because the fact that there's a "sniping house" on both sides sort of makes it obvious that you would want to snipe - putting shotgun ammo in the sniping house wouldn't make much sense to the player. Not that it would be a bad thing. If people would really like rail ammo, maybe the should leave safety for a few seconds in order to make everyone else less safe. It's more fair that way, IMO.


Along with the weapon layout of hydronex(2), I personally love to have less powerful (not necessarily less useful) weapons within reach when you spawn. Shotgun being somewhat convenient isn't a bad thing, it's hard to lame with the shotgun. Spawning right near a rocket launcher is an easy way to get a spam fest started. I wouldn't argue with the rocket launcher on hydronex being more central - perhaps in front of the sniper house near the water. Putting a powerful weapon like the railgun all the way in the middle could also be considered, but I would put it in a corner like where the (I think) grenade launcher is. Lightning gun is probably one of the most useful weapons - it shouldn't be very convenient because of how useful it is.

...blah blah blah. Point being, it doesn't usually help game play on a map to make it easy to spam weapons, IMO.