am_underworks2 - A (comp?) map of mine

[Neon_Knight]

I've made a DM layout without weapons and items, and using pulchr's simple textures. I'll be retexturizing it to oa_dm3 style later. The main issue I have is that no matter what I do, the map will have a leak. I don't know if I've done something bad there.

After solving the issue, I'm uploading the first version of this map. It's called am_underworks (a.k.a. "Under Working") and I've made it after playing a little bit of UT2004 yesterdays. I've inspired myself on two maps, DM-Compressed and specially on DM-1on1-Roughinery. You won't find any similitude of those maps in this one.

Weapons: Shotgun, Rocket Launcher, Plasma Gun, Railgun, Lightning Gun.
Items: Stimpacks, Healths, Large health, armor shards & body armor.

New version...

a2 changes:
- Added two jumppads.
- Switched RL & SG, and YA & LG. Plus, a switch between an RL ammo and a SG ammo.
- Moved shards & 5-health near Railgun, to prevent the campers to get a quick health & armor stack.
- Changed the second floor platform texture. It isn't transparent anymore, but I'm not sure about it.
- Removed almost all the light spots in the map, added a blue light rim around the map, and added extra spots where needed to prevent dark spots.
- More structural & cosmetic changes.
- Gamma: 2.5.

a3 changes:
- Reduced gamma from 2.50 to 2.00. It's dark, and some dark spots have come back. :/
- More detail to walls, plus, some more light spots.
- Lightning: now is possible both from the walls and the lightning to identify areas.
- Removed an extra MG ammo I've found.
- Fixed geometry. ^^
- New shaders and textures.

To do:
- Scale down the map
- Re-clip the map?
- Enlarge the ceiling
- Add some ceilings to some parts
- Remove 1x Rail Ammo?
- Add RA for 1on1, and Quad for TDM and FFA. They will replace YA.

Underworks2 started again from scratch. I'll consider it a "spiritual successor" towards the first one. I didn't ended too much convinced on the first Underworks.

a2:
- New level in both Generator room and Storage area. The SG in the latter was moved to the new floor.
- Teleporter! It goes from the lower floor to the ceiling in front of the RL house.
- Added some obstacles in the ceilings.
- Screwed a bit with the lighting. Although the map can't be compiled without -nocollapse. -.-
- Many minor changes.

a3:
- Hinting. That leaded to some structural brush fixing as well.
- Botclip improved.
- The ledge on the depot area isn't "circular" anymore. It has a beginning in the armor side, and an end before reaching the "garage doors".
- Switched YA & RA, so there's no "dominant area". Until a3, the "dominant area" was the depot one, with RA + LG.
- Added some barrels to the Railgun area.
- The jumppad on the Depot area was moved to the opposite side of the room.

a4:
- Switched MH and YA. Now, Red Armor is in the outdoor area, Yellow Armor in the Generator Room and MH in the Depot area. Also switched in the Gen room the RL position with the YA, so YA is in the floor and RL in the upper position. To make up for this, in the outdoor area the positions of PG and RL are switched too. (Good that they were close) Due to these changes, some health and armors had been moved too, to keep the balance.
- Added more spawnpoints. There're 16 spawnpoints in the map in total, so there won't be any telefrag.
- Moved the target_positions of the side sewer jumppads which goes to Depot area and Gen room.
- Some more hinting. (Some areas shouldn't be rendered at some places) Also, some brushes which shouldn't be structural (unnecesary vis portals) are now detail.
- Some clipping & botclipping fixes.
- Minor structural changes.
- Included a missing shader.

final:
- Added .arena file. I can't believe I've just forgot this, FFS!!!
- The map was too, TOO dark, so I've tried to fix this as well.
- Added DOM support, with 3 points. This map seems to be well suited for this gametype.
- Opened a new passage between the outdoor area and the Depot. The original single passage among zones was bad. (a.k.a. "A camping place") I'm fearing now that this map could be TOO BIG for 1on1.
- Cutted the circular ledge on the Generator room.
- The jumppads from the sewers towards the outdoor area were moved. A ledge was raised in that empty area, and two jumppads were removed.
- Many more minor changes and brushwork fix.

final2:
- The outdoor area has been redone entirely.
- Moved the Elimination starts for the teams.
- Opened a new passage between the Generator Room and the outdoor area.
- Spreaded some barrels over the water zone, for more jumping possibilities.
- Clusterportaled. There's one or two CP not working well, unfortunately. U_U
- Some minor changes.

final3:
- Slopes next to the sewer stair.
- Some lights added to the Railgun sewer. The existent lights weren't touched. As a counterbalance, their lighting was lowered so the overall lighting of the zone doesn't seem too screwed.
- Bot navigation improvements.
- The barrels were turned from models to simple patches.
- Clusterportals from zone 3 (Sewers) to 4 (Generator) are now working well.
- Many more minor changes.

final3v2:
- Missing texture added for the pk3, plus, many unused textures were removed from it. No map changes.

Screenshots:

Download

Hope you like it and comment.

[0kelvin]

openarena

[sago007]

Your vertical walls overlapped with the sky. They actually cut through the sky. I think the compiler tried to cut them and made a leak.

I made the sky thicker and it worked, I also cut the walls so they aligned with the sky.

Compile-able map: http://brie.ostenfeld.k-net.dk/~poul19/public_files/am_underwork.map

[Neon_Knight]

Great. ^^
Thanks Sago.

[bill-----]

Hole in the floor?  640x, 1600y, -896z.  Found that with the camera.

Gap where brushes meet. 1984x, 384y, -1088z.  Hard to see.  Maybe
a map unit wide. 

I gave up on the others.  Too hard to see.  Try caulking the brushes
on the outside walls, ceiling and floor, and then apply normal texture to
just the inside face of the brushes.  Should make the caulk easier to
see.  When all faces of brushes are the same color, you can't see
small gaps.

[Neon_Knight]

The issue is fixed. I'm uploading the first version of the map now.

[Neon_Knight]

Uploaded the map.

[Graion Dilach]

And I downloaded it.

Tested with some bots... I did not find the jumppads first, but that's just me, I think. The map is relatively huge and open, and I like the place of the railgun.

A well-made map, I must say.... I don't know what else should I say...

Maybe some more health... but I don't know.

[Neon_Knight]

Thanks for the comments, Graion.

Any more comments?

[Neon_Knight]

New version...

Let me remember the changes...
Hmmm...

- Added two jumppads.
- Switched RL & SG, and YA & LG. Plus, a switch between an RL ammo and a SG ammo.
- Moved shards & 5-health near Railgun, to prevent the campers to get a quick health & armor stack.
- Changed the second floor platform texture. It isn't transparent anymore, but I'm not sure about it.
- Removed almost all the light spots in the map, added a blue light rim around the map, and added extra spots where needed to prevent dark spots. (There are some remaining tho)
- More structural & cosmetic changes.

As always, the link and screenies are in the first post.

[chaoticsoldier]

Cool .  I really like this map. I think OA needs more large maps like this.

The only problem was that I found the floors and the walls on the lower parts of the map too bright. The yellow lit areas were fine though. I preferred the transparent texture for the second floor, but the new texture is OK as well.

I think the positioning of the RG is especially good.

[schlorri]

Hi,

i've downloaded and tested your map,l here are some points:

1.

I'll be adding more detail to walls and floors later.

I hope so! The map looks really boring and you dont have an idea where you are. Use different floor and wall textures.
Mark the Spawnpoints of the weapons and items.

2. The item placement is random? Maybe add RA or/and quad to make the gameplay more interesting.I like your used weapons, there is no nailgun on it -> yehaw
Whats up with the way to the railgun?

3. Please make the map not that bright. You used a dark sky, but the floor is really bright?

4. Some edges are really sharp, but i think you know that.

5. The shadows are broken, why? Compiler?

6. You could make the bounce-pads a bit higher then the ground.

7. I dont understand the layout, i think everyone would walk aimless through the map, or camp near the YA.

ok, that sounds hard, sorry! (You could say: make it better) But i just want to help


schlorri

[pulchr]

hello neon!

nice to see that you're back to some mapping again!

i had a quick run around and here are some comments:

* i think that the map is oversized, everything from blocks, heights and widths are too large. the map feels slow to run around in. distances are too long. not much close range combat unless people spawn in front of you.
* and as schlorri pointed out add some kind of marks beneath the weapons to show where they spawn - people will learn the map much faster this way. you had some signs beneath the rail, rocket and others - be consistent.
* the clipping at the bottom row lights ends a little early - i got stuck in the light (minor point).
* i felt that one of the jump pads was a bit strong - pushed players too far (tried with 125 fps).
* the ceiling seems very thin, the edge would look better if it was a bit thicker.
* the distance between the jump pad leading up to the ledge and the rail gun is too far. people don't have time to run that far in a ffa match.
* too much rail gun ammo? someone owning with that weapon can run around killing for aeons.
* if you put ceilings or something on top of the middle blocks the architecture would be more interesting. ceilings in different heights would create passages and a feeling of separated rooms. it's too open atm.
* add more pickups! just a yellow armour is boring

these are just my thoughts after a very quick play through. i really can't comment on the game play as i think the map is oversized and would be more interesting in a smaller scale. i almost feel that the map would be more fun as a space map if you removed the outer walls and shrunk the size

keep it up!

edit: minor things

[Neon_Knight]

First, some replies...

@schlorri: The way to the Railgun is made that way to prevent railcampers to have an easy camping Plus, they won't see so much from that point.
@pulchr: Oops, I didn't saw your comments, I'll be reading and for a4 surely there will be more things fixed. ATM there's a3.

Changes on a3... (I'm sure I'm missing something)

- Reduced gamma from 2.50 to 2.00. It's dark, and some dark spots have come back. :/
- More detail to walls, plus, some more light spots.
- Lightning: now is possible both from the walls and the lightning to identify areas.
- Removed an extra MG ammo I've found.
- Fixed geometry. ^^
- New shaders and textures.
- Health & armor near at north jumppad (between the two curved "bear-ears") moved onto lower passage, on the south. Also deleted some armor shards & 5-healths.

As always, linkage and screenieage at first post.

[schlorri]

Ok, it looks a million times better now! But i think a scaled version would be nice.

[Neon_Knight]

I'll see the next weekend what can I do...
Back to studies...

[bill-----]

Darker is better.

It's not as big as it looks.  There just isn't much cover.  And if your bunny jump is weak,
it will take a while to get from place to place.

You're going to take some falling damage dropping off the top deck, so if you're at the
high end of the big ramp, make a big jump and you'll be able to bounce into the openings
on either side if there's no action right below you.

Speaking of falling damage, it would be nice if the large lights on the walls below the
SG and LG platforms were not clipped.  That way, a player could drop onto them, rather like
you can drop onto the panel below the RG, and get to the floor below without falling damage.

Most of the fighting occurs in the RL/PG area due to closeness of two interesting weapons. 
LG works well on the top deck and in the inner hallways. 

RG and YA are away from the action and so take time to get.  This is a map that works best full
and there will be a high frag rate in the center.  You may miss out on some frags if you try to
play a stand-back kind of game with the RG, which the map structure permits.  I didn't notice
the bots going the long way to the RG, but if you bring one back to them, they will use it on you. :-)

[Neon_Knight]

Reworking the map. I'll be fixing things on the normal underworks due to 0.8.5 including too, but at the same time, I've started the work on a "sequel": underworks2.

The reason is that I didn't grew up convinced on how the original underworks ended looking and playing. Some screens. There are some things actually missing, (the platforms, which will be replaced for towers in the houses' area and a bunch of computers on the new "lab" area, the blueish one) and another ones gone forever (the rail section, I think I'll be using the water area for it) but they'll be in their place. It'll be, as the original, a pure Q3 DM map. (No TA items/weapons, no powerups, except maybe MH) The idea is to suit it for competitive play, soooooooooo... I'm going to need feedback. A lot of it.

I'm going to need some mapobjects, textures, and inspiration too. :/

Oh, and BTW, the water zone is tiny, the idea is to use it as a place for some powerful item (not available for, for example, 1on1)

[cosmo]

I didn't comment on this so far and I am glad you do a revised edition. Perhaps you could replace the current map with the new one.

I tested V1 when it was in an early beta phase and I was not sure what I should think about it. So here are my comments about the version which is included in 0.85 RC1. Keep in mind I don't want to be mean.

* Very cool lower floor lighting - I like that!
* Spectator is stuck in a wall/ceiling on spawn
* Confusing layout - I do not get it.
* Boring slopes
* Boring/repetitive texturing
* Slow movement (i.e. Spawn - Jumppad - YA and you have to walk around the jumppad)
* No Rocketjumping over the walls!
* Ultra thin roof
* Bad lighting - black ceiling of mid plateau
* Theme of the map is somewhat industrial but not recognizable
* Plain floors and hallways without features reminds me of a maze
* Why is there red, yellow and blue light but no flags?
* Strange deadends with no reason to go (like the one with ONE railgun ammo) - do you fear the railgun?
* Bridges look like elevators
* Everything feels like being too big

I like to do early beta tests of your rework.

[Neon_Knight]

There's a chance to have a beta of uw2 before the midnight. (well, midnight here GMT -3 ) I've finished the texturizing.

EDIT: Many of the reasons you mentioned are among the reasons why I wanted to redo it.

[Neon_Knight]

In-game screenshots, ATM there's no weapons nor any items. Any suggestions for placement?



Just for reference, SSX where X is one of the screenshots of the first post, so you can get the idea on how is working. RG deadend is no more, and the water pool has little amount of water, like q3dm2.

1- SS 4
2- SS 6 from another angle
3- SS 2
4- SS 3
5- Between SS5 and SS3
6- SS 5, ramp turned stair, and hollowed.

Top-down view of the full map:

[cosmo]

What about this: (attachment)

Can you give these 'blocks' another reason to be there, 'cept being able to walk on 'em?

[Neon_Knight]

Ehrm... did I mention that there're no items on this map yet? Also, I didn't said that the layout was the definitive one. I'm planning to add some stuff above those ceilings. Fortunately, I've found some GPL models (on Nexuiz's SVN ) that will go nice with this map.

Although your idea of the south-east corner is a nice one.

[Neon_Knight]

Well, the only thing I'm going to say is... finished. -.-
Started from scratch, take it as a new map. Although I would call it a "spiritual successor" towards the original underworks, because I've tried to retain the basic layout. Therefore, there's no changelog. Also, no TA weapons/items nor powerups nor holdables. And the water area is tiny, so it shouldn't interfere with the speed.

Some of the models (and some of the required textures as well) are nicked from Nexuiz.

Also I've attached the Readme to the first post, since I've forgot to zip it. -.-

Linky and screenies at the top.

[bill-----]

I got stuck several times behind the Q2 style crates in the LG room.  You have the classic small crate to large
crate double jump setup, which I used to accidentally launch myself into the darkness behind the
middle set of crates.  An RJ is the only way out.  :-(  Could you move the crates a little further from the wall so
players like me won't get stuck?

The LG can cover the whole room, and with the RA nearby, a player can probably camp and hold that
area for quite a while.  This might make for some interesting fights, as other players with RG/PG/RL/MG
can stand out of LG range in the doorways and fire at the camper or cover the RA.

You could put the crates to good use by putting the RA on top of the row of large crates it's now in front of,
and having another stack some distance away, with a one crate to two crate jump to the top of that stack,
which would then require a strafe or perhaps circle jump to the RA like the MH room in The Edge.  
The alternate route for players who can't manage that jump would be to jump up on  
one of the rows of crates on either side of the middle pile of crates, and then walk to gap between the
stacks and jump to the RA. You would only have to move a few crates in the current setup to do this.

As long as you're putting Q2 style crates in the map,  have some gaps between rows of crates with a
prize like a 25H or 50H in the shadows, like, for example, the computer area in the 'Abandoned Base' conversion map.
The SG room might be a good place for that.

Weapon placement looks OK.  RG is in a classic place, low, hard to get to, water splash tells other players that
someone's trying to get it.  PG is in more or less the same place in the 'maze' as it was in underworks v1, and
since it's a good weapon in that hallway type of environment, that's a good placement.  RL is in a place where
it will be immediately useful against players below.  Might want to swap some of the SG ammo for MG ammo.
MG will be good at longer range in the 'maze' for a player without a RG.  

I like the path along the ledge from the LG room to the platform where the PG and LG ammo are.  Very cool.  
And the area at the bottom of the stairs in the water area looks like a good place for a TP, though I don't
know where the other end ought to be.  Maybe on top of the box on the center 'island'.  Or maybe *inside*
the 'island' the RL is on top of?  There's a vent on that structure that looks like it could be a door.

The 'islands' that form the walls of the 'maze' are going to bother people.  

There's stuff to fight for up there, like the YA and RL, plus access to the MH room.  It looks like RG is going to be the
only good weapon up there, but MG may also be useful.  Players will feel uncomfortable up there as it's very
open, but that might be a good thing. :-)