Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
Author Topic: RoOst3r's OpenArena Frag Movie  (Read 68367 times)
RoOst3r
Nub


Cakes 3
Posts: 13


« Reply #50 on: September 14, 2009, 05:38:30 AM »

I think you missed rooster's point. He's simply saying he's american, so it's somehow normal if he's not registered (yet Cheesy) on, for example, our french speaking forum, because localization is important when you have a clan, not to have a too high ping when you play, I think you know that.

Thank you Cacatoes that is my point exactly.

but I also fear the more you investigate the less you are credible.
Sure , I see that they are very nice persons.

Ah sarcasm. Is your definition of a nice person someone who puts up with your insults and slander?

...but in my opinion they are using this argument for not posting the demos.

You take things way to negatively. This is your chance to grow and improve as a human being. It's the life lesson that if you want something from someone and act like a prick you get what you deserve.

In my experience facts are always simple and can be perfectly expressed by talking/writing in a sysnthetic way. So I will be synthetic : I suggest to ppl to focus on this 2 points while watching this video :
- easy adaptation to different jumpers and distances while "airocketing" other players
- too much serialized "flick rails" ( the movement , the DISTANCE of the target )

You don't know what a fact is. A fact is something that can be proved, or known to be true. All you have is assumptions, opinions, and beliefs. It's a fact that you cant have fire without oxygen. It's provable, take oxygen out of the equation and see what happens. In a sane world how can you say that any of your statements are proof of an aimbot? Too many flick rails = aimbot? How many flick rails is too many? Let me guess the magic number of flick rail botness is 4? Can't you see how foolish that is?

Your methods for proving someone is an aimbot is like something out of the dark ages for proving someone is a witch. Simply have the witch place his/her head on a chopping block. Aim an axe at their kneck and swing. If the person is a witch the axe will bounce off their kneck so you burn them. If the person is innocent then the axe will simply slice his/her head off.

I really don't care that you think I am an aimbot. What I do care about is that you don't try to PROVE anything. Instead you try to PERSUADE everyone you are right. The following is a perfect example.

direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE
I can clearly remember at least 3 times when I catched more than 100 hp of damage to my opponent with a direct (air)rocket :
- on aggressor map : after taking MH , picking LG , going to take the YA under the SG place in front of the teleport for RG , I've fragged him with a direct rocket while jumping over YA ( more than 100 hp of damage )
- on aggressor map : after taking MH, I've fragged my opponent with a direct rocket while he was jumping in air and going back to the stairs to pick RG ( again , more than 100 hp of damage )
- on oa_ctf4 map : after taking MH in the middle , my opponent took the jumper for the SG platform and I've fragged him with a direct rocket ( more than 100 hp of damage again )

Negative timenudge effect, prediction error, physics' bug ? IDK.

How many times have I heard you make this argument? Do you ever try to PROVE it? No. Instead you try to PERSUADE everyone you are right. The proof is at your fingertips and yet you still do nothing. OpenArena is an open source game. Go get the code and find where it applies more than 100 points of damage. Then post that code to prove your point. Can it get any easier? Start at least attempting to prove something.... anything...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 06:40:35 AM by RoOst3r » Logged
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2009, 08:56:58 AM »

In my experience facts are always simple and can be perfectly expressed by talking/writing in a sysnthetic way. So I will be synthetic : I suggest to ppl to focus on this 2 points while watching this video :
- easy adaptation to different jumpers and distances while "airocketing" other players
- too much serialized "flick rails" ( the movement , the DISTANCE of the target )

You don't know what a fact is. A fact is something that can be proved, or known to be true.

So independently of my "supposition" that u were cheating , you are contesting also that you are easy to airrocket ppl at different ranges and that flick rails are too much serialized in movement and distance of target ... *gulp*

And the only real method to proof that someone is a cheater or not is knowing the content of his/her installation ; well known players are known to be good because during LAN parties their PCs are controlled before and after the competition.

I have never read something like this in a reply to my post about cheating ; I've never read anything about how we could implement a basic control system ... _ NOTHING_  and _NOTHING_ against cheaters .

All my trying to focus on the problem of cheaters is written on the toilet paper ... the main characteristic of a good player for most of you  is to be a _WINNER_ , to _WIN_ : I still didn't meet yet a single player (**** EDIT : I'm terribly wrong here ... Super,Grism of the Super,Bots team - http://superbots.co.cc/ - usually spends most of his time to examine the candidated players to join his team **** ) that really focuses on the problem of _HOW_ a supposed good player wins.

OpenArena is an open source game. Go get the code and find where it applies more than 100 points of damage.

Oh here's the coder spirit ... is so absurde the idea that I've already try to find a reference to this ?

anyway , dear skilled coder , dear hacker , dear GOD of the source code ... u should know that every code is made to work in a way , but it could happen in certain condition or even in normal condition , that the generated binary code doesn't work as expected .

We call it BUG. There are 2 kinds of bugs : bugs that makes the code instable, unusable, crashing ... etc and bugs that simply produce some unpredictable/unwanted/not calculated effects.

Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).

And this is so fu**ing true that is the base for explaining the doppler effect ( which is an effect of every wave form phenomen )

Finally there are two nice common saying that we have in Italy : idk if u have them also in english , but the meaning is not so obscure
- Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire ( there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear )
- Meglio soli che male accompagnati ( better beeing alone that in a bad company )

*Click*
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 03:04:01 PM by Falkland » Logged
dbX
Member


Cakes 11
Posts: 199

Shazpaca!


WWW
« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2009, 09:38:08 AM »

Quote
there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear
This can be applied to you too. It works vice versa.
Quote
better beeing alone that in a bad company
We are a bad company. You are a bad person.

Falkland, you are like a Duracell battery, you keep going on and on and on and on...

About that damage bug thing. You are imagining this, as I'm quite sure ID Software and the ioquake3 team would have fixed it a long time ago. If there is such a bug other people would probably report it, but you are the first person I've heard of claiming the existence of this bug. Record a demo where this happens and file a freaking bug report. I'm sure that won't be too hard, as you say, this bug exists so it'll happen again. There are hundreds if not thousands of peopple who use the Quake 3 engine. I'm quite sure someone would notice it by now. Most professional players know how much damage each weapon does in each condition(e.g. normal or a quad damage) and the entire game dynamic is known to most players. What proof do you have that this bug exists? You ask Rooster for demos as you want proof, but what proof do you give? I know what a bug is, I'm a programmer and I do debugging every day so I don't buy your fairy tales.

Perhaps Rooster is a cheater, but your evidence against him is shallow. What Rooster does is nothing unusual. If anyone played as much as him they could kick the living hell out of a bot. There are people I've played UT with who just run around the map and do headshots like it's breathing. They miss mostly once or twice in a sequence of 20 headshots, and sometimes not even that much. In quake it's even easier as you don't need to shoot at the head. Just because you suck at games does not mean everyone else does. Just like in every profession, there are difference between people and sometimes they are huge. People like Rooster do this for years. Even I sometimes get lucky and flick-rail people 6 times in a row.

Rooster puts his best stuff in the video. I am quite sure that he also has some demos where he sucked, but you don't put your sucking in a frag video. If I made a video that had all my best shots I'd seem as good as Rooster. It still does not mean I'm a cheater, it just means I put my best material in a video. If you play OA a lot, you'll have a lot of this material, if you play it casually you may not have as much.

I am quite sure that you will find a argument against everything I said, and I am also sure you're going to post it and try to make me believe I can't think for myself and that I follow blindly to what everyone says against you. You have not realized this yet, but the odds are against you.  Yes, you are the smartest being in the universe and we are all bunch of idiots who can't think with our heads and we follow blindly to whatever Rooster says.
Logged

In defeat we learn.
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2009, 11:51:29 AM »

I will not answer to you about the frag movie anymore , neither to Rooster , Gerbil or someone else since I suck , I am paranoid , useless, mindless, idiot ... etc etc etc ...

Anyway :

There are people I've played UT with who just run around the map and do headshots like it's breathing. They miss mostly once or twice in a sequence of 20 headshots, and sometimes not even that much

But with which weapon ? It's quite impossible doing that with AK-103 without an aimbot. AK-103 is known to be difficult to manage because of the impossible recoil ( h t t p://www(dot)youtube(dot)com/watch?v=bwT0mIN51nw ) and since UrT weapons behaviour is quite almost close to the reality , I'd expect the same thing in the game unless u know well the weapon's characteristics , fire with single shots at high range ... etc etc etc ...

I'd not expect for sure while specting all bullets going over target at high/mid range while the weapon is in auto mode.

And I was accused to cheat on UrT in bomb mode while playing in ut_elgin and ut_harbortown : in their opinion I was using a wallhack to know ( to see , at this point ) where the enemy was coming from.

I had patience in that occasion and I've explained how I was able to exactly know that.

In both of the maps there is a zone are 2 zones for each map in which you can hear the sound of a barking dog when u pass near it.

Easy to know where the enemy is coming from for me : just adjusting the volume and opening my ears to hear the barking dog , expecially in ut_harbortown.

And this is coming from my personal experience : a dog is barkering when it ( but I would really like to use he/she ) snorts an unknown person scent/hears an unknown rumor/sound ;

And as a confirmation of this FACT instead of describing some real facts happened to me and/or some cruel events I've indirectly known/understood , I can say you to watch at The Bourne Identity movie and see that the first thing that one of the killers that wants to kill Bourne does , is killing the dog so to not permit to the dog it didn't giving a single signal of the killer's presence with its barkering.

So I am sorry to not be experienced in "your game" artificial/virtual physics/reality.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 01:28:11 PM by Falkland » Logged
dbX
Member


Cakes 11
Posts: 199

Shazpaca!


WWW
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2009, 12:36:09 PM »

Quote
But with which weapon?

It was UrT99, it was almost 4 years ago, they were using sniper rifles and there were no aimbots as we were in the same room(and there are always people looking over your shoulders at what you are doing) and had everyone's PCs checked. It was a LAN party. Usually these people are called sniper wh0res and they specialize for snipers, which causes them to suck at limited space combat.

I don't believe UrT has close to reality weapons. They don't even come remotely near reality, at least not those in UrT 99 and none of them had any recoil. Played little of UrT 2004 and none of UrT 3.

I also used to play Counter-Strike 1.6, got tired of it because you can't tell who is cheating and who is not, got kicked/banned too many times because I was falsely accused of cheating. Shooting people with an AWP is not a wallhack unless there is actually a wall between. Must have been an air-hack Smiley Most servers close to me are lousy, so I don't play CS anymore. The game is great. Most people playing it are not.

I am not quite sure what you meant when you said "your game".
Logged

In defeat we learn.
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2009, 01:10:02 PM »

It was UrT99

I've assumed u were talking about UrbanTerror not Unreal Tournment.

I am not quite sure what you meant when you said "your game".

that it's not mine.
Logged
Gerbil
Member


Cakes -2
Posts: 309


not so strong


« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2009, 10:59:59 PM »

Quote from: Falkland
there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear
Oh sweet irony!

It's funny, I don't think you even READ all of what I type in a post. You just skim over, find parts you think you can argue, and ignore the rest. Whenever I make a point that is valid, you simply ignore it, pretend it never happened and continue on making another outragous claim.

Falkland I can argue and prove you wrong on every single thing you have said in pretty much every post I have made to reply to yours. I challenge you to do better. Look back on what I have posted and just TRY to argue against me.

Quite frankly Falkland, you are too stupid to attempt to have a debate with, you are no challenge at all whatsoever. You do not know your facts and make outrageous claims without any thought at all. If you did give it any thought, you should be seriously reconsidering what you know.



So independently of my "supposition" that u were cheating , you are contesting also that you are easy to airrocket ppl at different ranges and that flick rails are too much serialized in movement and distance of target ... *gulp*
He said that you have absolutely no proof, absolutely no evidence, and he is absolutely right. As everyone has told you countless times before, it is split second estimation and shoot. If it was easy it would not be in the video, no? Many of the shots I am sure had some luck involved, but it is humanly possible to make those shots without luck. THIS IS A FACT. it has been done before on COUNTLESS occcasions. You cannot argue this. You are claiming that because he can land an air rocket, he MUST MUST MUST be hacking. You have no evidence, therefore you have NO FACT TO YOUR CLAIM. Your only evidence for him hacking is that he is good. Last time I checked you do not need to hack to be good. Olympic athletes do not hack. Professional athletes not need to hack, but they can accomplish feats which are beyond impossible to you and I.


And the only real method to proof that someone is a cheater or not is knowing the content of his/her installation ; well known players are known to be good because during LAN parties their PCs are controlled before and after the competition.
some truth, however, There are plenty of air rockets that would have been impossible with hacking. Many air rockets rely on the targets independant movement. When he shoots a rocket before they go on a jumppad, he is predicting that the target is THINKING, something that an aimbot cannot do. We also saw ourselves in the video some shots and rockets which were totally totally off. An aimbot would have never made such an error. Besides, if rooster was hacking, I certainly would have expected a better frag video than that. Those flick rails would have been pitiful for a someone with an aimbott Wink.



I have never read something like this in a reply to my post about cheating ; I've never read anything about how we could implement a basic control system ... _ NOTHING_  and _NOTHING_ against cheaters .
you mean this? http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3295.0
If I misunderstood your horrendous English my apologies.

All my trying to focus on the problem of cheaters is written on the toilet paper ... the main characteristic of a good player for most of you  is to be a _WINNER_ , to _WIN_ : I still didn't meet yet a single player (**** EDIT : I'm terribly wrong here ... Super,Grism of the Super,Bots team - http://superbots.co.cc/ - usually spends most of his time to examine the candidated players to join his team **** ) that really focuses on the problem of _HOW_ a supposed good player wins.
This comment is extremely out of place. So are you trying to say that good players do not win? Are you saying that players focus too much on winning and not on how to win? Because this is a massive assumption with no proof at all. Have you even talked to anybody? I mean, most of the openarena players are very casual, and do not care about winning at all. The other casual players will practice to get better, and they focus on the "how" because that's the only way you get better. I believe that clans such as 6R and RN have regular skirmishes with each other to get better. /V/ as well as /oaN/ have team meetings for practice. There are many players who are not in clans that practice. Bloodstain was on oa one morning because he said he wanted to get better, he wanted to practice. Ragnarok practices every day to get better. All of these examples are of people focusing on the HOW. I have no fucking clue how you jumped to
the conclusion that nobody cares about how you get better. Every time you join a server you will find proof against your nonsense claim.
Personally I don't care much for winning. I always join the weaker/losing team and in the end, I will lose more matches then win. I myself am an example against your point.


Oh here's the coder spirit ... is so absurde the idea that I've already try to find a reference to this ?
is it so absurd that I can't understand your god damn grammar?


anyway , dear skilled coder , dear hacker , dear GOD of the source code ... u should know that every code is made to work in a way , but it could happen in certain condition or even in normal condition , that the generated binary code doesn't work as expected .

We call it BUG. There are 2 kinds of bugs : bugs that makes the code instable, unusable, crashing ... etc and bugs that simply produce some unpredictable/unwanted/not calculated effects.
ok, so bring back a demo with one of these "over 100 damage" rockets I have heard so much about FROM YOU ALONE.

Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).
congragulations for showing off your basic knowledge of painfully simple phsics! THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC SO STFU

And this is so fu**ing true that is the base for explaining the doppler effect ( which is an effect of every wave form phenomen )
again with the useless information. Everybody knows about the doppler effect so shut up already.

Finally there are two nice common saying that we have in Italy : idk if u have them also in english , but the meaning is not so obscure
- Non c'è peggior sordo di chi non vuol sentire ( there's no worst deaf person of whom doesn't want to hear )
- Meglio soli che male accompagnati ( better beeing alone that in a bad company )

*Click*
You obviously do not read anything anyone ever says. The whole world is shouting that this video is authentic, but here is Falkland, deaf as can be. This poor poor Falkland, if only he could hear, then maybe he would understand why he alone is the only one who thinks that there is hacking in roosters video.

Perhaps the company is good, but there is one bad leg dragging the whole thing down.



To sum up, you my good friend Falkland, are an adamant fool, incapable of putting up any fight in sensible debate. I will politely ask for you to hold your idiot tongue before you have any material proof of hacking at all.
Logged

Quote from: sploosh
there once was an animal called gerbil
he dreamed he was eating his turtle
he awoke with a frieght
in the middle of the night
to find out that he was a squirtle
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2009, 06:23:05 AM »

Rockets' speed for example is always 900 ups in VQ3 in every condition : even if you are running at 2000 ups and u fire a rocket , its speed wll be 900 ups and that's in contraddiction with real physics because if you fire an M-16 bullet ( initial speed ~ 3500 Km/h ) while running in a Ferrari Enzo launched at its max speed ( 350 Km/h ) , the total initial speed of the bullet will be 3850 Km/h ( 3500 + 350 ).
congragulations for showing off your basic knowledge of painfully simple phsics!

Yeah , it's so simple that carmack didn't know that (or voluntary ignored it ? ). But I can understand : there were not so many internet resources ( eg Wikipedia ).

THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC

I was giving an example of a VQ3 physics bug.

There are plenty of air rockets that would have been impossible with hacking. Many air rockets rely on the targets independant movement. When he shoots a rocket before they go on a jumppad, he is predicting that the target is THINKING, something that an aimbot cannot do.

This conclusion is wrong : you are assuming that the virtual world in which players fight is coerent, but it's not ... the server sends snapshots of the game , not in realtime. Every player is working on his copy of the world. And every client has clientside prediction to mantain the world as coerent as possible ( try cg_nopredict 1 to see what I mean ). U would be right if the world operations would be done in realtime. An aimbot can predict your position simply because works on the local client copy of the game world and/or by accessing to the client world snapshots received from the server and/or using the client predict code and/or because reads and knows the jumpers' and the players'  speeds directly through the client code.

U were pointed that quoting the CPMA bots characteristics is useless , but the CPMA bots do exactly this at level higher than 86 81 with RL : predict your position.

And that's so easier in VQ3 because once the player is going , he cannot significantly change his/her trajectory ( he can strafe but he cannot curve in air as in CPM ).

« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 02:40:12 PM by Falkland » Logged
HITMAN
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 245


The doctor is in the house!


WWW
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2009, 01:59:15 PM »

Please ignore the ignorant rants of people who live to start an argument. This post was made let people know Rooster had a new video out..(early this year).  We all know falkland will be "that guy". I think everyone had made their point. Anything said after is just feeding into his nonsense.
Logged

h!+m@n * d/hit/p + kozak6 / CloudStrife - (Orochi + {C}easar) = a whole buncha screenames
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2009, 02:12:14 PM »

Please ignore the ignorant rants of people who live to start an argument.

Well , math's experts are not welcome in Las Vegas casinos and that's a risk that u don't and will not run ever.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 02:27:49 PM by Falkland » Logged
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2009, 12:33:29 PM »

I've said I'd not come back on the topic but since I've received other personal attacks , I found time and decided to write hopefully a resonable enough explanation ( for you ) of why quite almost Rooster's video content is resonable enough suspicious ; all by using logic since I can't have access to Rooster's installation and/or to the set of demos used for producing the video.

A human reaction is driven by events ( vision, sounds, position prediction driven by estimation and/or map knowledge - items, teleports ... ) while a bot reaction is almost driven by data ( actually brainworks bot have also a support for giving reactions driven by sounds and vision (*) ) even if it tries to simulate human reaction.
Every event is interpreted by players as a ring bell for paying much more attention at what will happen immediately after. As an example you can read this old post on how usually players start to pay much more attention at entities spawn : http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1834

Now I will give you an example of reaction driven by events through the analysis of some parts of this video ( http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2579 ) made and edited by the uscpmpickup guys , which are "certified" PROs. Most of the content is based on duels where things are very different than CTF , but it's anyway a good example.

- the first example is a railshot at 1m and 29s ( more or less ) : the map is cpm3a which is one of the most used in duels ; there's a spawn point and a teleport where the opponent is fragged and if you pay the right attention you can hear the teleport/spawn sound : a classic reaction guided by events and knowledge of the map ( he knows well there's a teleport/spawn point ; the teleport is the exit of the one in front of Red armor : it's quite common running the risk of shoting enemy there because he could come after taking ra or he could spawn there and go to take the RL and/or the LG and/or the YA and/or the corridor to the MH room. )
- the second example is another railshot at 1m 35s ( more or less ) : the same map cpm3a ; again there's a teleport there and u can hear the sound of it ( it's the exit of the portal placed in that little room where the player was fragged in the previous action at 1m 29s ) but the human reaction is driven also by the rocket that the enemy has shoted revealing his posistion.
- at 3m 36s there's a nice rocket shot driven by a teleport event.
- at 3m 41s there are 4 close and consecutive frags : the first is a railshot guided by a teleport event ( the map is cpm22 ) , then the player takes the teleport to have a visibility from a higher position waiting for the spawn event ; he suddenly fragged his opponent after spwaning with a single rocket ( in CPMA the player spawns with 100hp and rockets' speed is 1000 ups ) , then the opponent spawned again in a zone controlled by the killer and again the player spawnfragged him and finally the opponent spawned in a relatively hidden zone , but again he was spawn fragged simply because after hearing the spawn sound , the player predicted that his opponent would go to get a rocket and the enemy was enough inexpert to go there instead of taking teleport to RG .
- at 4m 51s there's a railshot driven by the combination of the knowledge of where the enemy would be after he took the MH teleport and the jumper sound.

Now let's analyze some parts of the Rooster video. I will (or at least try to) explain why many of the shots in the Rooster's Just Killing Time video seems to be mostly data driven instead :

- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.
- 0m 45s : UnnamedPlayer is on his visual , but he fragged him only after he disappeared by its visual ( like he had a bind like "/bind MOUSE1 +aim; +shot" or the autoaim is synchronized to shot when the enemy is at a certain distance or the autoaim simply shots at the closest enemy )
- 0m 57s : He fired a rocket that exactly hit the player coming out of the teleport ( the bot can know a player is taking a teleport before the event is drawn on the screen )
- 1m 25s : same as at 0m 45s
- 1m 31s : same as at 0m 45s
- 2m 10s : same as at 0m 45s but he didn't have the enemy on his visual.
- 2m 45s : it seems the bot had a wallhack but also that the shot is fired only when the enemy is on free visual. If he instead heard for the enemy , it's higly improbable that he followed the footsteps without knowing that it's the flag carrier and its position while running.
- 3m 15s : same as at 0m 45s
- 3m 24s : what's the logic on shoting at enemy while falling in the void ? ( once the target is locked , the bot continues to aim on it until is get fragged )
- 3m 42s : same as 3m 24s
- 3m 44s : Think about it : he took the jumper and while going to the enemy base he shoted a perfect airocket after the enemy took the opposite jumper too. ( the bot knows rocket speed - constantly 900 ups , even if the player is running at 2000 ups - and the jumper speed taken by enemy and adjust aiming angle a little bit before shooting rocket )
- 4m 21s : same as at 2m 10s
- 4m 24s : same as at 2m 10s ( the enemy was on his back )
- 4m 59s : perfect airocket while enemy is falling over the jumper under the enemy base on oa_ctf2
- 5m 03s : another perfect airocket after the enemy took the jumper; pay attention at the "presumed MOUSE movement" : it continues to remain fixed on the same position after shoting the rocket even if it was very quick ( again , the bot adjust aiming angle because of the exact knowledge of the rocket speed and the jumper speed )
- 5m 06s : another perfect airocket while he enemy is falling over the jumper under the enemy base on oa_ctf2 : he didn't even tried to shot him while he was still over the platform ... the enemy is fragged in quite the same identical position as seen at 4m 59s
- 5m 18s : same as at 4m 24s
- 5m 36s : same as at 2m 10s ( the enemy was covered by the ramp )
- 5m 40s : it appears as a lucky shot ... a too lucky shot ... a very too lucky shot ... maybe not exactly a lucky shot
- 5m 43s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 05s : another under water lucky shot ? or did the bot wallhack help him ?
- 6m 28s : same as at 2m 10s
- 6m 30s : same as at 2m 10s
- 6m 32s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 34s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 36s : same as at 0m 45s
- 6m 38s : same as at 0m 45s
...


By summarizing all the "strange" or "supposed lucky" events , it's highly improbable to be driven all by luck and they look like too much serial to be done by human estimations, also because the demos were produced in a relative short time ( months ).

I think the video is a spot for the presumed Rooster skill/superiority and/or presumed attitude ( killing time ? ) , not a good spot for OA.

(*) - quoted from http://code.google.com/p/quake3-brainworks/

Quote
Brainworks is a Quake 3 mod designed to give Quake 3 Arena bots working brains. It is a complete rewrite of all the Artificial Intelligence used by the bots. Brainworks includes:

    * Sound and visual awareness system
    * Randomized dodging in battles
    * Avoidance of incoming missiles
    * Strafejumping
    * Improved enemy aiming
    * Goal and score-based selection of item pickups
    * Timing of item respawns
    * Dynamic weapon selection (based on weapon accuracy)
    * Redesigned internal goal selection
    * Redesigned internal aim selection
    * Redesigned Teamplay logic
    * Rewritten chat code
    * Redesigned internal logic infrastructure

The goal of Brainworks is to make Quake 3 Arena bots as human-like as possible. With that in mind, the following human equivalents were set as the "goal for realism" for each bot.

    * Skill 1: Someone who has played Q3A for less than 2 weeks
    * Skill 2: Someone who has played Q3A for less than 3 months
    * Skill 3: Average player on a public server
    * Skill 4: The best player on a public server
    * Skill 5: A clan player who plays in professional tournaments

Obviously it's harder to make realistic skill 5 bots than skill 1 bots, but we've done everything we can in a reasonable amount of time to reach these five goals for realistic bots.
Logged
chaoticsoldier
Member


Cakes 18
Posts: 375


This space intentionally left blank.


« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2009, 08:58:39 PM »

I pulled out RoOst3r's video (the full 300mb mp4 version) and I was going to look through your whole argument point by point, but I only made it as far as the first one:

- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.

I played the video frame by frame and the player (coreduo) NEVER spawned on screen. She was already standing there in the first frame of that scene. In fact, it seems she was already firing her machine gun at the time due to the bullet marks appearing on the left wall and the muzzle flash from her gun!

The time it takes for the player to spawn (supposing they even spawned there at all) and fire a few shots from the MG is more than enough time for RoOst3r to consciously register their presence and start firing. By the way, if you look carefully you'll see RoOst3r even switched from the Rail Gun to the Rocket Launcher first before firing.

Are you watching the right video Falkland?
Logged

0101100101101111011101010010011101110110011001010010000001101010011101010111001101110100001000000111011101100001011100110111010001100101011001000010000001111001011011110111010101110010001000000111010001101001011011010110010100101110
RoOst3r
Nub


Cakes 3
Posts: 13


« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2009, 02:02:15 AM »

- 0m 36s : spawnfragging of the opponent exactly at spawn ( he didn't frag the opponent because players spawn with 125 hp ) ; he could not have any knowledge of the imminent spawning of the opponent , while a bot can know that event before is drawn on the screen.

Like chaoticsoldier said, that player never spawned. He was already there to begin with. You can see that by simply playing it in slow motion. Even if he did just barely spawn you argue that I couldn't have fragged him because he would have 125hp? According to you rockets in OA have been known to do much more than 100pts of damage. If that is true than your argument that I couldn't have done 125pts of damage with 2 rockets is wrong based on your previous argument that 1 rocket can do more than 100pts of damage.

direct rockets will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION DO 100 DAMAGE
I can clearly remember at least 3 times when I catched more than 100 hp of damage to my opponent with a direct (air)rocket :
- on aggressor map : after taking MH , picking LG , going to take the YA under the SG place in front of the teleport for RG , I've fragged him with a direct rocket while jumping over YA ( more than 100 hp of damage )
- on aggressor map : after taking MH, I've fragged my opponent with a direct rocket while he was jumping in air and going back to the stairs to pick RG ( again , more than 100 hp of damage )
- on oa_ctf4 map : after taking MH in the middle , my opponent took the jumper for the SG platform and I've fragged him with a direct rocket ( more than 100 hp of damage again )

Negative timenudge effect, prediction error, physics' bug ? IDK.

If instead you now believe that rockets do anywhere from 0-100pts of damage depending on whether it's a direct hit or splash damage then it can easily again be explained. One direct rocket at the end does 100pts of damage. That leaves 25pts of splash damage left to be done with the first rocket that landed at his feet. Easily plausible. I don't see what 125 in health has to do with anything even if he did just barely spawn which he clearly did not.

- 2m 45s : it seems the bot had a wallhack but also that the shot is fired only when the enemy is on free visual. If he instead heard for the enemy , it's higly improbable that he followed the footsteps without knowing that it's the flag carrier and its position while running.

If you watch it in slow motion you can watch someone jump down take the flag and rocket jump away with it. If you turn up the sound you can also hear the message the flag has been stolen. From my position you can see all the exits from the flag room except one which is above me. If he went for any of the other flag room exits we would see it in the movie from my position. We don't. That means he could have only gone a grand total of one route. So all you said above is incorrect. Even without the sound of him strafe jumping above me, which he did and we cant hear because of the music, we can still conclude he only went for one exit.

Your arguments against my flick rails where I see a target are deemed bot shots because I didn't initially shoot at the target. Did it ever occur to you I was trying to hit a flick rail? The others you say I didn't have a visual on the target. Meaning I never saw the target before I shot. You have no way of arguing that I didn't see a target in a full game because you didn't see it in a clip. Some of them like 4:21 and 4:24 you can clearly see if you slow it down. Others were edited out usually for time reasons to sync with music. Either way, just because part of the demo isn't in the movie doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are choosing to state that I never saw a target when there is no possible way for you to know whether I did or not.

- 6m 05s : another under water lucky shot ? or did the bot wallhack help him ?

Since when does anyone need a wallhack to see through a transparent 2d texture in any game?

I think the video is a spot for the presumed Rooster skill/superiority and/or presumed attitude ( killing time ? ) , not a good spot for OA.

I made the movie for my entertainment and the entertainment of others. I have never once said anything along the lines of look how awesome I am or about how I am so superior to anyone else at playing a game. Point to any post where I did. You can't because it doesn't exist. As for the movie title Just Killing Time? Thats an English saying. If you don't know what it means and choose to interpret it wrongly then thats your mistake not mine. I made the movie during college. In between 2 classes I was taking I had 3 hours of free time. I live far enough away that it would be a waste of time to drive home and then drive back again. So during the 3 hours, in between classes, I stayed and worked on the movie for fun. I just killed 3 hours of free time. Understand? That has absolutely nothing to do with me having a bad attitude.

I uploaded 4 demos of people using an aimbot in OA for reference. Anyone that's interested in seeing real examples of real aimbots to compare against me can find them here:

http://www.filefront.com/14565945/oa_aimbot_examples.rar/

I also played a couple games recently and recorded/uploaded those. I am sure Falkland will be able to come up with something to say about those as well.

http://www.filefront.com/14565951/oa_rooster_examples.rar/

I will probably start playing again at least for a little while and I will record those as well. So now Falkland you won't have to give some bs excuse about how every time you try to spectate me I immediately jump out so you cant.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2009, 03:19:28 AM by RoOst3r » Logged
Gerbil
Member


Cakes -2
Posts: 309


not so strong


« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2009, 10:52:03 PM »

bla bla bla
massive noob rant
bla bla bla
PRICELESS
Logged

Quote from: sploosh
there once was an animal called gerbil
he dreamed he was eating his turtle
he awoke with a frieght
in the middle of the night
to find out that he was a squirtle
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2009, 01:46:39 PM »

- What I've seen in the online video was a spawn frag. I downloaded the full version once ... deleted.
- The "more_than_100_HP_rockets_damage" thing happened for me in OA071 and with enemy in AIR ... I don't have OA071 anymore and since quite for sure this seems to be happened only to me, I'm not going to test the thing even if I could have OA071.
Logged
dbX
Member


Cakes 11
Posts: 199

Shazpaca!


WWW
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2009, 02:12:26 PM »

   This is all beyond the point of sense. I can imagine Falkland chasing after RoOst3r to the tune of the Benny Hill Show theme song, all in fast forward and with silly running.

I suggest we make a poll, and vote if Ro0st3r is a cheater or not. I believe that is how they do it in democracy.
Logged

In defeat we learn.
Gerbil
Member


Cakes -2
Posts: 309


not so strong


« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2009, 08:39:18 PM »

sounds good to me
Logged

Quote from: sploosh
there once was an animal called gerbil
he dreamed he was eating his turtle
he awoke with a frieght
in the middle of the night
to find out that he was a squirtle
dbX
Member


Cakes 11
Posts: 199

Shazpaca!


WWW
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2009, 02:46:33 AM »

The poll is up in the multiplayer section. You can vote now if RoOst3r is a cheater or not.
Logged

In defeat we learn.
RMF
Member


Cakes 12
Posts: 694



« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2009, 07:11:59 AM »

It was UrT99

I've assumed u were talking about UrbanTerror not Unreal Tournment.
For me UrT is urban terror, and UT is unreal tournament. The names are very similar, but I think UT is the most used for unreal so UrT is for urban terror.
Though urban terror didn't exist '99, so that makes it confusing.
Logged
dbX
Member


Cakes 11
Posts: 199

Shazpaca!


WWW
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2009, 07:37:55 AM »

I know. It's just that Falkland got me confused about this. When I wrote UT he thought it was Urban Terror.
Logged

In defeat we learn.
kick52
Member


Cakes -1
Posts: 229


« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2009, 10:30:20 AM »

Any old noob/average player could compile a video of once-in-a-million shots and look super hax awesome.

Just sayin' Tongue
Logged
sittingduck
Half-Nub


Cakes 1
Posts: 81



WWW
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2009, 10:22:54 PM »

This demo config works nicely if you're using Fraps. The size is right for HD. Encode with Handbrake using H.264, and your demo will look very nice on youtube, etc.
I used it for quakelive.... here's a sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTQVz5B1ho

//[--Player Settings--]
set cg_forceteammodel "0"
set cg_drawfriend "0"
set cg_forceenemymodel "0"

//[--General Settings--]
set com_allowconsole "1"
set cg_fov "110"


//[--Video Settings--]
set r_fullscreen "1"
set r_dynamiclight "1"
set cg_shadows "1"
set r_enablepostprocess "1"
set r_picmip "0"
set r_gamma "1"
set r_fullbright "0"
set r_overbrightbits "1"
set r_mapoverbrightbits "3"
set r_vertexlight "0"
set r_fastsky "0"
set r_mode "-1"
set r_customwidth "1280"
set r_customheight "720"
set cg_draw3dicons "1"
set cg_simpleitems "0"
set cg_marks "1"
set cg_noprojectiletrail "1"
vid_restart


//[--Weapon Settings--]
set cg_drawgun "1"
set cg_autoswitch "0"
set cg_switchonempty "1"
set cg_brasstime "2500"
set cg_truelightning "1"

bind 8 "cl_avidemo 60"
bind 9 "cl_avidemo 0"
Logged
pulchr
Member


Cakes 34
Posts: 626



WWW
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2009, 02:09:01 AM »

sittingduck... don't show that video to falkland or you will be accused of using "tools assisted help" with the air rockets Wink
Logged
Falkland
Member


Cakes 6
Posts: 590


« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2009, 11:12:54 AM »

Quote
Quake Live Hack with advanced aimbot


This advanced Quake Live hack can boost any player's skill to a very high level without raising suspicion thanks to a carefully engineered aimbot which makes use of extremely advanced humanization algorithms. Server ragers will be able to easily achieve accuracies exceeding 90%, while league cheaters will see a consistent improvement of their performance. Of course we're aware that in Quake Live you're required to act quickly and a single decision can matter a lot: that's why a clean and informative ESP is also included in our hack; this way you can be sure you never miss anything and can always make the most informed (and thus the best) choices. Finally, it's completely PB proof, meaning that it'll return clean screenshots and it won't be detected on PB enabled servers.

Aimbot

    * Advanced target selection algorithm
    * Extreme tracking mode - ideal for pwning servers!
    * Human aiming (highly customizable aim humanization, perfect for leagues!)
    * Configurable aim FOV
    * Autoshoot
    * Predicted autoshoot for enhanced accuracy
    * Customizable autofire delay to prevent "impossible" shots

ESP

    * Player names
    * Player Health
    * Radar
    * Chams
    * Wallhack

Misc

    * Quad Damage Timer
    * Self muting - disables sounds generated by your player so that you can focus on what really matters
    * Prediction boxes indicating you the spot you should aim at to score a hit on your best target
    * Highly customizable via custom cvars that can't be accessed by PB
    * Anti-Leak protection

PB

    * Undetected
    * Stealth hooking
    * Private cvar and binds protection
    * Clean screenshots



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3mDn0-qfuw


Quote
the green boxes are not the hitboxes
the green box is aim indcator : it's on model for insta weapons like lg , mg , rg , sg and so on ,
soon as he uses projectile like rl it moves the box ahaed of
where the player is going so the rocket connects

For retarted , it means that the green box is the enemy prediction box for the player while carring RL or GL .


Ciao baaaaabbbiiiiii !!!!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2009, 01:40:02 PM by Falkland » Logged
RAZ3R
Bigger member


Cakes 0
Posts: 155



« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2009, 11:49:55 PM »

So wait... some guy makes a frag video - a few minutes of their best frags from many hours of playing - someone else see's nice frags and says "ZOMG HAX?!?!"?

I can't even be bothered to put time in to explaining why RoOst3r isn't cheating. Unfounded cheating accusations like this are just sad.
Logged

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
  Print  
 
Jump to: