modelling high and low poly models at the same time.

[white haired boy]

hello everyone,

i've found a way of working that allows me to do the kind of high detail models that interest me most, yet can still produce lower poly models suitable for slower computers.

leileilol mentioned that 1024 vertices is the limit that the engine can handle per section of model. i've been experimenting with low poly models that result in that kind of number of polygons when 2 levels of subsurf are applied. obviously this is more than what is suitable for openareana, but the good news is that if i only apply one level of subsurf it results in a simpler model in the 200-300 polygon range, which is a lot less scary.

i've redone the tuxedo head model in this way as an example. the attached pictures and blend file show the base model (70 polys), the model with 1 level of subsurf (232 polys) and the model with 2 levels of subsurf (928 polys).

this seems like a win/win situation to me. i can concentrate on modelling for the faster computers, without neglecting everyone else.

white haired boy.

[white haired boy]

and the blend....

[fromhell]

Any form of subsurf isn't really feasible for games in general anyway.

I usually model my highest poly model first, uvmap that, complete that with animation then duplicate the mesh into another layer and go on a quest of edgering collapsing.

[kit89]

I would suggest you create a high poly model first. Then go through the model to find details that can be replaced with textures. And if you are still with too high a poly count.

Go into Edit Mode, select all vetices. Then go to Mesh > Script > Poly Reducer, and then after that Mesh > Script > Mesh Cleaner.

I would suggest using those scripts as a last resort as there outcome isn't always the best.

[white haired boy]

leileilol-

Any form of subsurf isn't really feasible for games in general anyway.

i agree that this technique wouldn't work for general game modelling, because once subsurfing is applied it results in smooth, blob shaped meshes. it was perfect for this particular model though, because the smooth look was what i was aiming for.

I usually model my highest poly model first, uvmap that, complete that with animation then duplicate the mesh into another layer and go on a quest of edgering collapsing.

interesting. i'd been wondering if a uvmap from a detailed model could be used on a less detailed model. your technique makes sense, the vertices left after collapsing would still connect the uvmap to the newer, simpler model.

thanks for that.  :-)



kit89-

i've used poly reducer before, but not mesh cleaner. i'll have a look at that, thanks for the tip.

white haired boy.

[kit89]

If you go to the SubSurf modifier button and press Apply. It will cause the SunSurf to turn to vertice points on your mesh.

Also try setting Set Smooth on your model. It will help find Normal problems. Those are big black lines that shouldn't be there. To fix that problem go into Edit Mode, select all vertices with "A" & press "Ctrl + N" to recalculate normals outside.

[fromhell]

Or, you can turn off Double-Sided, go into Flat shaded mode and then hunt that black polygon and W>Flip Normals on it.

[HanClinto]

I would suggest you create a high poly model first.

Being the n00b modeler that I am, I tend to do things like White Haired Boy. I make it low-poly first, then sub-surf for higher detail, adding in more polies to control the subsurf if I need to. I agree with you about applying the subsurf modifier though -- that's a great way to create a high-poly base mesh without too much work. I find if I mess with too many polies at once, it makes it too hard to tweak just how I want.

Attached is an example of one very low-poly model that I smoothed out with subsurf. In this model, I almost treated my low poly vertices the way one would treat points to modify a bezier curve. Sometimes my actual low-poly vertices are way outside the final model, but I just pull them around to have a sort of rubber-band effect on the subsurfed model.

[HanClinto]

I would suggest you create a high poly model first.

Being the n00b modeler that I am, I tend to do things like White Haired Boy. I make it low-poly first, then sub-surf for higher detail, adding in more polies to control the subsurf if I need to. I agree with you about applying the subsurf modifier though -- that's a great way to create a high-poly base mesh without too much work -- I guess I'm still unsure as to when it would be best to do the uv-unwrap. I wonder if a UV map would translate well through a subsurf...

I find if I mess with too many polies at once, it makes it too hard to tweak just how I want.

Attached is an example of one very low-poly model that I smoothed out with subsurf. In this model, I almost treated my low poly vertices the way one would treat points to modify a bezier curve. Sometimes my actual low-poly vertices are way outside the final model, but I just pull them around to have a sort of rubber-band effect on the subsurfed model.

[fromhell]

In Blender 2.43rc1 you could use Multi-res and sculpt out higher detail levels without touching subsurf while maintaining the low poly mesh. I don't know how well this would work for OA models though,

[white haired boy]

leileilol-
i had a closer look at the model and i think i understand what you mean about the subsurf now. wherever there where sharp curves there would be lots of tiny little polygons, which really weren't necessary. i did what you suggested and merged them together into bigger polys and i managed to reduce the polycount from 928 to 674 without the model really looking any different.i still like using subsurf to create shapes, but i can see that the results need a lot more work before they are usable in games. i don't know what multires is, i'll have to look into that.
thanks for the advice.

hanclinto-
i used to do a lot of work with inkscape and i always liked playing with bezier curves. probably why i like playing with subsurf, i can move a single point and let the pc do all the grunt work of calculating the new curves.


white haired boy.