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Author Topic: Cheater or Pro ?  (Read 23656 times)
Bane
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« on: January 11, 2010, 04:12:40 PM »

I admit I am no pro but I do think at least average and know I still have to work on my game and when a person beats me I usually just chalk it up to them knowing more than about movement, timing and the map and I usually see the mistakes I made and try to learn from them but I think I might have just encountered my first cheater. Out of respect for the player in question I will not say his name because I am unsure if he is a cheater and don’t what to come across as a noob jerk accusing someone of cheating if they are not so I will just describe the details of our duel. To me it is like he never missed a shot and thought the whole duel he used the rail gun at close range while stafe jumping all around me. Another weird thing about him was he pretty much just left all of the other weapons and power ups on the map. He only when for mega health and the red armor and he only seemed to do that twice. The reason this seemed weird to me is because most of the time the other person takes everything trying to leave you with nothing to make you easier to frag. Another thing that seemed weird to me is that it seemed at times that no matter where I when he was either right behind me or waiting ahead to frag me.
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RMF
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 05:08:11 PM »

It sounds very doubtfull that this was not a cheater, but we can't say for sure.
I think you can say his name, i wouldn't mind if you would say it was me because you said you werent sure about it and i could just explain it. (and i have ppl who can confirm i don't cheat, i think everyone who is so good ppl say he cheats has played oa long enough to make some friends who can confirm that)

Btw if it was by any chance google^bot, just report to admin when he was playing and don't play when he is there. He is always cheating.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 06:22:52 PM »

From how long have you been playing OpenArena and Quake 3 ?
Do you have a demo for it ? (even from your PoV)
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Bane
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 06:50:14 PM »

It sounds very doubtfull that this was not a cheater, but we can't say for sure.
I think you can say his name, i wouldn't mind if you would say it was me because you said you werent sure about it and i could just explain it. (and i have ppl who can confirm i don't cheat, i think everyone who is so good ppl say he cheats has played oa long enough to make some friends who can confirm that)

Btw if it was by any chance google^bot, just report to admin when he was playing and don't play when he is there. He is always cheating.

His name was Jester in yellow text
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Bane
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 06:51:42 PM »

From how long have you been playing OpenArena and Quake 3 ?
Do you have a demo for it ? (even from your PoV)

sorry no I don't have a demo. I played quake 3 for on and off throught the years and i have played open arena for about a month.
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RMF
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 02:55:14 AM »

His name was Jester in yellow text
Hmm not a typical cheatername, but everyone can in principal.
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Falkland
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 08:58:26 AM »

Btw if it was by any chance google^bot, just report to admin when he was playing and don't play when he is there. He is always cheating.

Yeah , but this guy that has google-something nick uses always the same stupid and obvious aimbot.

The situation that was described sounds like autoaim ( the aim is always over the opponent or is going over opponent when this one is visible ) .
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HITMAN
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 02:59:32 PM »

Bane..what i would do to be sure he's using an aimbot is (during the match) first say brb or something that won't suspect the person to think that you may suspect hes cheating..then spectate him...s/he will continue to playing against a bot or someone and just see how will well he Aims...poorly made aimbots are very noticeable...it looks like Bots on Nightmare difficulty level.

There will be losers out here that will use aimbots. Generally, I just leave the server, just mess around or see if i can beat it...but i wouldn't take it heart. Honestly, nowadays, you will encounter alot of really good players who skill is up there with aimbot programs, so you will just have to adjust your game anyway.
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 05:22:19 PM »

It is true: wallhacks are available, aimbots are available and so on.
Nothing to do there. Just play on servers where the admins are near or just leave the arena and join another machine.
Never (!) try to beat the cheater or insult him - thats his source of power to do it again and again and again...
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menganito
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 08:51:40 AM »

There still is a chance it wasn't a cheater.
He might just be high above your level.
Strafe jumping with aimbot would be a pain in the ass (probably), because you couldn't really look the way you want Wink so if he was fast, it would suggest a non-aimbot.
Also, leaving powerups behind is a thing I do sometimes as well - when I play against a very weak opponent (kyonshi or so), to ballance it a little. That would suggest a non-cheater as well.
And, most good players, when in 1v1 or up to 3v3, have a perfect mental image of where are you going to be at most times, enabling them to wait for you or sneak up from behind.
To sum up: it might well be an aimbot, but a good player could do (to a certain degree) all the stuff you mentioned.
As cacatoes (and many others before) have said: do a demo. That's the only way the others can take a look and "judge".
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Bane
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 09:12:42 AM »

There still is a chance it wasn't a cheater.
He might just be high above your level.
Strafe jumping with aimbot would be a pain in the ass (probably), because you couldn't really look the way you want Wink so if he was fast, it would suggest a non-aimbot.
Also, leaving powerups behind is a thing I do sometimes as well - when I play against a very weak opponent (kyonshi or so), to ballance it a little. That would suggest a non-cheater as well.
And, most good players, when in 1v1 or up to 3v3, have a perfect mental image of where are you going to be at most times, enabling them to wait for you or sneak up from behind.
To sum up: it might well be an aimbot, but a good player could do (to a certain degree) all the stuff you mentioned.
As cacatoes (and many others before) have said: do a demo. That's the only way the others can take a look and "judge".

Ok I how do you record a demo and how mcuh resources does it take becuase I don't want it to slow my computer down.
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RMF
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 09:36:04 AM »

Almost no resources (I never noticed, also not on my slower pcs), just put /record in your console and it starts to record a .dm_71 file in your appdata/openarena/baseoa directory (in win). To stoprecording, enter /stoprecord. Can't be easier Cool
If you want to upload to youtube you have to convert it to a video file, to do that open the demo and enter /video. That will take a lot of system resources, and you can't the console or switch window without it being visible (it won't record ur desktop, but the screen goes white).
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Falkland
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 09:49:42 AM »

[...] To me it is like he never missed a shot and thought the whole duel he used the rail gun at close range while stafe jumping all around me. [...]

Bane was very clear in what he saw : this statement is the key to confirm with a probability of a higher percentage than 50 that the guy was cheating with autoaim   : "never missed a shot" means low or very low mouse sensitivity , but that's certainly in contrast with the behaviour described by "he used the railgun at close range while strafing all around me" .

Inexperienced player doesn't imply stupid player : so please try to give a response to a rational question with a rational answer if you have a better one.

Don't start  with the usual song of "gimme gimme gimme a demo " , else you will continue to loose credibility and as  a consequence players .

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kernel panic
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 10:15:17 AM »

Hehe, but what Bane said was actually:

Quote
To me it is like he never missed a shot [...]
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Rose Wine
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 12:20:55 PM »

When I see cortex playing I allways think, WOAH that guy is cheating! and I quite sure he isnt.

Quote
Strafe jumping with aimbot would be a pain in the ass (probably), because you couldn't really look the way you want Wink so if he was fast, it would suggest a non-aimbot.

As far as I Know, the good strafe is something that cant be cheated so if a player is skilled with strafe its supposed to be with the aim too.

With this I dont say Bane is wrong and that guy didnt cheat, I have seen players cheating too, generally with a very noticeable aimbot.
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Falkland
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2010, 01:40:07 PM »

As far as I Know, the good strafe is something that cant be cheated.

If autoaim is configured  to only _point_ over opponent when he becomes visible ( because you should know that good aimbots come with their own HUD and their own cvars ) , the player is enough free to move as he/she wants.

But anyway good strafe can be cheated indeed ... brainworks and CPMA bots can strafe.

Of course that doesn't mean that every player good at strafe is cheating , but that the "good strafe" can be eventually automated : also with scripts , which are now common ( ask to the defrag community why they've banned w3sp by official servers/competitions )

I don't care about beeing repetitive , but in QuakeLive they've updated the engine by declaring 2 client cvars ( cl_yawspeed and cl_pitchspeed ) as CHEAT PROTECTED , because those ones are used in every kind of movements' scripts : CircleJump , RocketJump and Strafe Scripts.

I have built myself an OA engine with the same modification ( cl_*speed cvars declared as CHEAT PROTECTED and locked to their default value 140 ) and the aphaleon RJ script DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.

BTW , in the end I agree with Peter and HITMAN : if you suspect that a player is cheating , try to beat him if you feel to be able to do or you want/are in the mood to measure your skill else eventually just leave the server/go to spec.
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kernel panic
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2010, 02:35:35 PM »

Quote
I have built myself an OA engine with the same modification ( cl_*speed cvars declared as CHEAT PROTECTED and locked to their default value 140 ) and the aphaleon RJ script DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.

lol, to avoid cheating yourself?
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Falkland
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2010, 02:46:08 PM »

Quote
I have built myself an OA engine with the same modification ( cl_*speed cvars declared as CHEAT PROTECTED and locked to their default value 140 ) and the aphaleon RJ script DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE.

lol, to avoid cheating yourself?

Do you want the aphaleon RJ script too ? Just read this post -> http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3095.msg27912#msg27912

You don't have idea how funny was to see how many OA players I've seen performing this specific RJ after I posted it on this forum.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 03:01:59 PM by Falkland » Logged
HelloKitty!
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2010, 03:15:53 PM »

I think that the cheating accusation gets thrown around far too quickly.

I haven't seen many cheaters on European OA servers. There are many really good players, and I've spectated a lot, but I haven't seen them doing anything that I haven't either done myself occasionally, or seen really great players pull off. The main difference is that the really good players can do it more consistently.

You can't assume that somebody is cheating because they strafe jump or rocket jump, FFS. Or hit a few rails in a row. This is intermediate-level stuff.

Things like perfect tracking, never missing a shot, wallhacks, etc. happen occasionally, but are pretty obvious. I have personally often had a feeling that somebody was simply too perfect and gone to spectate them, but it almost always turned out that the person simply had a great understanding of the map, controlled the powerups, and had a good feeling for where the opponent was, so they were aiming at the right place already and didn't have to move the mouse much.

Quake-based games have been around for almost 15 years. Some guys in the OA community are simply astonishingly good. Cut down on paranoia and enjoy the game...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 09:46:23 AM by HelloKitty! » Logged
MIOW
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2010, 03:49:15 AM »

For a long time i've been playing on CTF servers i met only 2 or 3 obvious cheaters (aimbot) and their overall skill is so weak they were easily managable.
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kernel panic
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 05:47:51 AM »

Cheater or Pro?

Redundant question. It is like asking whether a cow is a vertebrate or a mammal. Or Napoleon, European or French? Karmic Koala, Linux or Ubuntu? You should know better by now: 'Pros' are a subset of Cheaters. Anyone playing the game in a way not compatible with the OA scriptures is a Cheater. Perhaps you intended to ask 'Aimbotter' or 'Pro', and that would be a perfectly valid question. To tell between these two, you have to understand what each of these two classes of Cheaters are.

First of all, and despite what the myth says, Aimbotters are not very common. Their power resides more in fear and chaos spread by word of mouth than in their real abilities, relying on the irrationality of the average OA player to exercise their ruthless control over the masses. However, like internet Trolls, their influence is easily countered when confronted with a group of calm, down-to-earth players. Usual Aimbotter manifestations are a rare combination of below average movement skills AND perfect aiming ones. With this being true for the vast majority of Aimbotters (all three of them), the rest of considerations are more superfluous: unknown nick, no chatting when asked, jerky movements, exclusive use of insta-weapons, etc.

Pro Cheaters, on the other hand, are counted by the hundreds, and this makes it very difficult a task to tell whether somebody is a Pro Cheater or an innocent, law-abiding, humble OA player. Rule of thumb: everybody with a better score than yours is a potential Pro Cheater. EVERYONE. The tactics they use are well known, and include despicable artifices such as jumping fast (faster than you, this is), excellent good aiming (or at least simply better than yours) and telepathic skills (obviously). It is also said that they use especial configurations that exploit the very core of the game engine, apparently by adding small amounts of melange spice in certain secret places. On top of that, we have learned that a number of these Pro Cheaters are united in Guilds to extend their diabolic influence over the servers. Bad times indeed (*).

Now remember, if you suspect there is an Aimbotter in the server: DON'T PANIC. First of all, breath deeply and ask yourself these questions:

-Do I have any evidence?
-Am I not the only one seeing this?
-Is it really spoiling the game?

If the answer to all of them is yes, you can proceed with step 2:

-Ask in no uncertain terms whether he/she is an aimbotter.

Surprisingly, this simple tactic works most of the time. If the answer goes around the lines of , 'omg lol', 'aaw, noob', 'yeah, leave me alone', 'wtf?' or 'sigh...', congratulations, you have probably spotted a Pro Cheater, although not an Aimbotter. Pay attention to what the other players say too, perhaps some of them know the Cheater in question and can confirm his/her Pro status.

On the other hand, if you don't get answers or they are elusive and possibly of a humiliating tone, you may very well be dealing with an Aimbotter. However, there is no way to tell for sure unless you record a demo and it is properly analysed off-line with certain complex techniques. For this reason, our recommendation is to keep playing for fun while taking the demo until enough material has been collected to bring the presumed Cheater before the Law.

Good luck out there, guys.

--CHEAT (Cheater Hunting Especial Assault Troops)

(*) As part of its ongoing effort to provide OA players with the best cheater-free experience, CHEAT is compiling a data base of suspected or well known Cheaters which can be accessed online for public consultation.
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RMF
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 05:53:43 AM »

@the first part of ur post (can't quote from phone), what the f*ck. If u ask if napoleon was french or european the answer is obviously both. When u ask if someone is pro or cheater the answer is NOT both of course.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:25:05 AM by RMF » Logged
MIOW
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2010, 07:02:49 AM »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/6995354/Sarcasm-punctuation-mark-aims-to-put-an-end-to-email-confusion.html
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RMF
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2010, 08:29:02 AM »

Then tell me what was the use of being sarcastic here..
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HelloKitty!
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2010, 08:37:55 AM »

He was making fun of the people who assume that anyone who is any good at the game is automatically a cheater.

That's why he linked to a list of "cheaters", which is basically a list of who-is-who in OA. Obviously most of those people are not cheaters.
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