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Author Topic: 0.8.5 Bugs  (Read 133832 times)
Gig
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« Reply #150 on: October 20, 2010, 12:00:20 PM »

I did some tests with the "g_motd" and the "motd.cfg" (I used them to update DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Servers&diff=7505&oldid=7244]this, could you please check I did all correcly?).

And I noticed that when you update the motd.cfg file, the new message is immediately active on the next connecting clients.... but when you update the g_motd variable, the clients loading screen still shows the old message, until the server has loaded another map (or restarted the current one).

Is it possible to have the "g_motd" message immediately updated after you change it? (This is the update request of this post.) - Side note: the cvar does not result "latched" like some other settings that need some kind of "restart" to be effective.

----------
PS: Do you know if there is some way to have the "motd.cfg" message shown for longer time, or re-shown without having to \reconnect?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 04:18:19 PM by Gig » Logged

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Cacatoes
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« Reply #151 on: October 20, 2010, 12:21:35 PM »

With the motd file, the message is printed again if you change your team (join spectator, change team, or new map).
I thought there was a cvar to change for how long motd is displayed but I don't find it and there may not be.
Admins can eventually print text with Custom Votes, or there may be a way to extend the admin system so that commands like !motd are available.
Having that text displayed for long can be annoying because MOTD can take the whole screen, so default value seems good to me.
Usually motds dont pollute the visual screen but remains in the console logs, that's why I think extending the admin system with that command could be a better idea.
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Gig
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« Reply #152 on: October 21, 2010, 02:45:47 PM »

Since one can see the "long" message of the day when going to spectator mode or changing team, I suppose there is no need to do the things more complicated with a cvar to change its duration.



PS: I don't know about the admin system.... I don't understand what you mean. Anyway, if some dev likes it...
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« Reply #153 on: October 21, 2010, 03:31:42 PM »

The admin system is this, though addition of new commands isn't documented there, maybe in some UrT doc.
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Gig
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« Reply #154 on: October 21, 2010, 04:07:20 PM »

Wow... I'm sorry I'm not capable of adding the documentation for it. However, if it is related to the Tremolous documentation, maybe we may link it (if we find it).

For the moment, I simply did DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/index.php?title=Servers&diff=7525&oldid=7514]this. Not much, for something that is probably a good admin system, and that should be covered (more or less) in detail... but at the moment I cannot do more.
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« Reply #155 on: October 29, 2010, 01:30:40 PM »

At the start of a game, set cg_drawrewards 0. Then near the end, last minute or something, set the variable back to 1. If you played a bit well, you'll see all awards you got during the game in a row. Like it has cached them and is now playing them all.
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Gig
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« Reply #156 on: November 01, 2010, 08:42:03 AM »

This one is not excacly a bug, but it is something that may be improved a bit. If one plays CTF Elimination with the One way capture option enabled, when you are in the defensive team, attacking the enemy base is not very useful, if noone is there: bots in defensive team probably should tend to remain in their own base or roam around the map, or, if they go to the enemy base, should go back if they find no enemy to frag there. And when you are in the offensive team, remaining in your base is not very useful, since the enemy cannot pickup your flag and you have nothing to guard (maybe one may want to stay away from the battle, in order to survive until the end of the round? But if the time goes out, the defensive team will win anyway! And avoiding the battle, in general, is not a nice thing in OpenArena, right?): probably, bots in the attacking team should tend to an all-out attack...

Graion (or some other developer), what to you think about it? Is my thought right? Is it possible to tune a bit the bots behavior in this gametype (when both g_gametype 9 and elimination_ctf_oneway 1 are true)?
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« Reply #157 on: November 01, 2010, 10:29:11 AM »

Graion (or some other developer), what to you think about it? Is my thought right? Is it possible to tune a bit the bots behavior in this gametype (when both g_gametype 9 and elimination_ctf_oneway 1 are true)?
Currently the bots have no concept of being eliminated and does not change there behavior if all offensive players are dead because they expect them to respawn in a few seconds.

The reason why I send half the bots towards the enemy flag in Oneway capture is that if all players remained at the base the enemies would reach the base with full power and could easily run away and with all defenders in the base none could intercept.

If you are a human with bot players you would be happy that some bots stay home because they will weaken the welcome committee once you return.

I did try with different behaviors some year ago but it didn't really work you always had the feeling that the bots played better before.
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Gig
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« Reply #158 on: November 01, 2010, 10:57:03 AM »

But at least they should know that, if all their team-mates have been fragged (and they are in the attacking team), they should stop defending the (useless) flag and go attacking by their own, because their team-mates will not respawn, no?

From what I understand, now there is even the risk that all the "attacking" players of both teams (devensive and offensive) are fragged, and those remaining will be stuck each one in his own base, until the time runs out?
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« Reply #159 on: November 01, 2010, 10:59:27 AM »

From what I understand, now there is even the risk that all the "attacking" players of both teams (devensive and offensive) are fragged, and those remaining will be stuck each one in his own base, until the time runs out?
That is the case. They will go on offense at some point but the time will likely run out first.
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Gig
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« Reply #160 on: November 01, 2010, 12:14:20 PM »

I suppose this may be a problem for CTF Elimination even without the "oneway" mode...
Would it be very difficult to make a bot know it is the last player still alive on his team, and then making it work like when it is the only player of a team?
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Graion Dilach
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« Reply #161 on: November 01, 2010, 03:38:11 PM »

I'm not very familiar (mean: I don't even know where it is) with Elimination code, but if there is a variable which keeps the amount of alive team-members, it sounds possible.
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Gig
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« Reply #162 on: November 06, 2010, 10:39:07 AM »

Sago, do you know if such variable exists?

PS: Yesterday I played on a server that used the "Aftershock" mod, with the Elimination gametype. When you remained the last player in your team, a message appeared on the screen (with not-too-big fonts) for some seconds, informing you about this. Maybe we could implement something similar also in baseoa.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 10:50:13 AM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #163 on: November 06, 2010, 11:30:22 AM »

Sago, do you know if such variable exists?
The server keeps the number of players alive in the array countsLiving[TEAMNUMBER] but it is not currently exposed to the bot logic.

PS: Yesterday I played on a server that used the "Aftershock" mod, with the Elimination gametype. When you remained the last player in your team, a message appeared on the screen (with not-too-big fonts) for some seconds, informing you about this. Maybe we could implement something similar also in baseoa.

I have thought about making, some alternatives to centerprint (cp):
cp (standard centerprint -big fint)
cp1 (a little smaller - disappears if cp is used)
cp2 (even smaller - disappears if cp or cp1 is used)
cp3 (small message above cp, different color)
cp4 (small message above cp, different color, removed if cp3 is active)

The idea is that at must two messeges can be displayed to the player simultaneously and the client should be able to prioritize them. 
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Gig
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« Reply #164 on: November 06, 2010, 01:13:19 PM »

Sago, do you know if such variable exists?
The server keeps the number of players alive in the array countsLiving[TEAMNUMBER] but it is not currently exposed to the bot logic.

Do you think you could co-ordinate with Graion to work around this?

More, I did a test in oa_ctf4ish, and it seems that also in standard CTF (gametype 4), if a bot is the only player of his team (for exaple, you switch to spectator mode), it will continue to defend the base. It seems that in a 1vs1 CTF with bots, it is very unlikely that someone will score soon.
Bots should know if they are the last or only player on their team: in this case, they should go to get the enemy flag even if they were previously in defense (and obviously, after they get the enemy flag, they should look for their own flag if the enemies stole it). With the necessary differences, this should be applied to all the team-based gametypes that have an objective different from just wandering around killing the enemies.

PLEASE READ the following:

And I found a major bug (maybe two, but maybe they are two aspects of the same one) while doing these tests... but I'm not sure on how to reproduce, seems if I add the bots manually using addbot command (and I don't know if the fact that then I changed team is related or not)... I was 2 (me and bot) vs 1 (bot), and I used team orders to ask "everyone report" and I was very surprised when BOTH the bots replied me with team chat, saying "defending the red flag"... even the blue bot!!!!!
Another absurd thing I noticed, continuing the tests, was seeing two bots in the same team fighting each other... and one of them carrying and capturing its own flag!!!! Both bots were red (in the colour and in the score table), but one of them was acting as blue player! See the screenshots! The red bot is capturing the red flag!

Please, load a ctf map and then do some tests, adding and removing bots, giving the "everybody report" order etc...
This seems a quite worrying bug... I don't know if it affects also other team-based gametypes.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:51:29 PM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2010, 01:33:04 PM »

Please, load a ctf map and then do some tests, adding and removing bots, giving the "everybody report" order etc...
This seems a quite worrying bug... I don't know if it affects also other team-based gametypes.
Interesting. There has always been problems with bots not knowing what team they are on... yet no sure way of reproducing it.

EDIT:
And I still cannot reproduce it reliably. The problem with bots not knowing what team they are on has existed forever. In a previous version I changed the way the bot discovered there own team color to read it directly from the game logic rather than from the bot string.

My guess is that ent->client->ps.persistant[PERS_TEAM] and level.clients[i].sess.sessionTeam is out of sync... I don't know why there need to be two places for the same value.

EDIT2: Just realized that the bot code skips the place where sessionTeam is set.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 02:14:26 PM by sago007 » Logged

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Cacatoes
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« Reply #166 on: November 06, 2010, 05:50:21 PM »

Quote
..and one of them carrying and capturing its own flag!!!! Both bots were red (in the colour and in the score table), but one of them was acting as blue player! See the screenshots! The red bot is capturing the red flag!
Hééé what problem with that ? That's his own right...

I'm pretty sure the "TEAMMATE" bug vote has been fixed, and probably isn't related to this. But right now I just remembered about the new (0.8.5) voting system problem, which gives quite weird results and is almost unusable in its current state. The vote issue is "yes" too often, we've been dealing with it for some while, and it's quite an annoying one, so right now I can't remember if something has been done to fix it.

Edit: Oh, now I remember why I wanted to post. These kind of behaviours I've seen with bots is when I was using the !commands. Like !putteam Sarge Red, etc, or !shuffle. I just tried and had like 2 bots in red (with me), no one in blue. "!putteam Sarge blue" didn't made him change team but then he aggressed his mate. Like Gig I used "/addbot sarge" with no further arguments. Some way to put yourself admin in local games is to specify a "/rconpassword sauerkrauten" then "/rcon !setlevel caca 5" (note: I always mess with the order of args with !setlevel command)
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« Reply #167 on: November 06, 2010, 06:12:02 PM »

I'm pretty sure the "TEAMMATE" bug vote has been fixed, and probably isn't related to this. But right now I just remembered about the new (0.8.5) voting system problem, which gives quite weird results and is almost unusable in its current state. The vote issue is "yes" too often, we've been dealing with it for some while, and it's quite an annoying one, so right now I can't remember if something has been done to fix it.
I have not done anything about. What is the problem? A vote should never be "yes" if there are at least as many "no" votes as "yes" votes.

Edit: Oh, now I remember why I wanted to post. These kind of behaviours I've seen with bots is when I was using the !commands. Like !putteam Sarge Red, etc, or !shuffle. I just tried and had like 2 bots in red (with me), no one in blue. "!putteam Sarge blue" didn't made him change team but then he aggressed his mate.
Thanks! That made it possible for me to reproduce and fix the problem. As expected it was caused by the sessionteam that was not set for bots. It should be fixed in OAX r242
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Gig
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« Reply #168 on: November 06, 2010, 06:36:22 PM »

Quote
..and one of them carrying and capturing its own flag!!!! Both bots were red (in the colour and in the score table), but one of them was acting as blue player! See the screenshots! The red bot is capturing the red flag!
Hééé what problem with that ? That's his own right...

This was ironic, right?
A player touching his own flag should cause it immediatley be teleported to its base, he should not be able to pickup it (except for some mods, that introduced a "return the flag" gametype where you have to bring your own flag to your base manually).

PS (if it could be somehow useful to Sago to check his theory): not sure... but probably in my tests I used the "addbot" command in the format "\addbot <botname> <skill> <colour>"...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:49:19 PM by Gig » Logged

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Cacatoes
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« Reply #169 on: November 06, 2010, 07:34:02 PM »

About the vote,
I haven't been able to identify the behaviour, but I guess several players will tell you 085 votes are screwed up.
Sometimes, everything goes well and votes work as they should. Indeed, 3-3 leads to "no" and that's fine that way.

The problem is, sometimes, you think the issue of the vote will be one thing, like, you see votes being accumulated to "No", then suddenly results are reversed. "No" goes down to 0 and there are several Yes votes. I think it comes magically in one step, it's not the behaviour which is "one changes his/her mood and corrects the vote". Some players have fun changing from F1 to F2 all the time but this is little annoyance, and in that case the effect is directly visible on the vote counts.

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Gig
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« Reply #170 on: November 06, 2010, 07:42:58 PM »

I have thought about making, some alternatives to centerprint (cp):
cp (standard centerprint -big fint)
cp1 (a little smaller - disappears if cp is used)
cp2 (even smaller - disappears if cp or cp1 is used)
cp3 (small message above cp, different color)
cp4 (small message above cp, different color, removed if cp3 is active)

The idea is that at must two messeges can be displayed to the player simultaneously and the client should be able to prioritize them.  

To use different font sizes seems a very good idea (useful, for example, in customized killing sprees)...
I don't know how "cp" is used in the source code, but why the different color? The color isn't manually customizable for each message, using ^1, ^2, etc? Do you mean that the "default" color will change? For example, a standard message "begins with" ^7, but you can customize it, and a standard chat line is ^2, but you can customize it, right? Do you mean that cp3 would begin, for example, with ^3, and cp4 would begin, for example, with ^4, but they would still be customizable?


--------------------
About the bots bug, I did a rapid test in the classic Q3A, in q3ctf4: when I set them one per team (and I spectate), the bots seem a little more aggressive than in OpenArena, and maybe seem to attack the enemy base more frequently... but they seem much more interested in fighting each other than grabbing that flag (they picked up it only once in some minutes)!
I've not been able to reproduce the "team colors/behaviors screwed up" bug, there...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:10:30 PM by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #171 on: November 07, 2010, 02:47:02 AM »

I don't know how "cp" is used in the source code, but why the different color? The color isn't manually customizable for each message, using ^1, ^2, etc? Do you mean that the "default" color will change? For example, a standard message "begins with" ^7, but you can customize it, and a standard chat line is ^2, but you can customize it, right? Do you mean that cp3 would begin, for example, with ^3, and cp4 would begin, for example, with ^4, but they would still be customizable?
Colors can always be overwritten (if the message is about a team) but it might be a good idea to give default colors too. If we one day want to change all colors of one message it we only need to change it in one place.
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Gig
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« Reply #172 on: November 07, 2010, 04:51:37 AM »

For me, it's okay.
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« Reply #173 on: December 26, 2010, 01:11:58 PM »

netchan error are virtually impossible to debug because they are encrypted.

I have been able to reproduce in 0.8.5 in LMS single player frequently on oa_koth2 (why it happens more often there I don't know).

The current OAX beta 45 tries to reduce the risk of it happening by preventing heavy transmissions during intermission. But because the problem is random there might still be problems. There are many network parameters that can increase or reduce the probability.

This is a known problem, and is not random - if you have bots enabled and load a map that does not support bots, it will eventually crash:

http://lists.ioquake.org/pipermail/ioquake3-ioquake.org/2007-November/002135.html

http://quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9220

It was apparently fixed in ioquake upstream in May 2009:

http://svn.icculus.org/quake3/trunk/code/server/sv_net_chan.c?r1=1552&r2=1596

Are there any plans to include ioquake server-side updates in 0.8.6? It would probably be a very good idea, as the OA server code seems to be getting a bit stale...
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« Reply #174 on: December 26, 2010, 01:44:34 PM »

It was apparently fixed in ioquake upstream in May 2009:

http://svn.icculus.org/quake3/trunk/code/server/sv_net_chan.c?r1=1552&r2=1596

Are there any plans to include ioquake server-side updates in 0.8.6? It would probably be a very good idea, as the OA server code seems to be getting a bit stale...
You are talking about a different problem.

If it was fixed in revision 1596 then it would be fixed in 0.8.5 because it was based on some 17XX revision.

Netchan errors can be caused by hundred of different things.
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