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Author Topic: AimBots :/  (Read 79037 times)
Falkland
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« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2010, 12:46:12 PM »

60 secs / 1.5 secs = 40 frags per minute with single RG kills
Just looked up some screenshots, and I sometimes get close to the 40score/min (insta CTF). Now there's flag scores too, but I'm not that good so there sure will be people going over the 'aimbot score'. So again @Thoushaltdie I think "kicking ppl if they kill X number off ppl in X amount of time" isn't a good idea Smiley

100% accuracy is normality for sure , right ?

Stop pulling our legs because a human player will never reach and mantain such this accuracy on any game stats.

X kills in Y amount a time where X and Y are high limits ( like in the case 40 frags = max teoric score obtainable in 1 minute with railgun ) and in a normal match ( with a certain number of players that don't stay fixed at spawnpoint ) just means the player IS a cheater with a very high probability.
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« Reply #76 on: July 19, 2010, 01:11:29 PM »

Wait a minute before we get off on the wrong foot here.

I'm not a CTF player, but don't you get 2 frags for a defense kill in CTF? So the theoretical limit would be 80 frags per minute without captures in an instagib CTF match, wouldn't it?

Not thinking earlier of the defense award is my mistake, sorry guys (Thoushaltdie in particular).
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RMF
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« Reply #77 on: July 19, 2010, 01:30:06 PM »

Falkland, disagree. I was working on a post today about the max score you could get in a minute but didn't post in the end because it was all too much guessing and not based on real statistics. But I did get higher then 40score a minute for a player just a little better than me. Also have a screenshot of 39score where the time says 1minute, though that could be 1:59 as well so it's not really relyable. Long kill streaks (and I mean hitting x times without missing, not hitting x times without dying) are also doable, never counted but estimate I sometimes get kill streaks of little under 20 (which is already half-way to the minute with 100% acc).
And you seem to forget that aimbots never have 100% accuracy, if someone has that acc you can be rather sure he's not a cheater (with the current aimbots at least). Now the highest I've ever gotten was 62%, it was a crappy one but still I don't expect any to go over 75% or 30frags/minute.
Lastly, there isn't always a player in sight, and if you can see everyone at all times everyone can see you too at all times and you'll get shot now and then.
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Bane
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« Reply #78 on: July 19, 2010, 04:41:42 PM »

I was wondering if you guys are also figuring in railing more than just two targets and the fact there might have been some bots there which we all know are not to bright and are easy targets. Also another thing to consider is how experienced the other players are do they know how to dodge can they strafe if they are just walking along and some pro comes in it will turn into a blood bath. I just thought I’d bring these things up because they do at times happen. Finally maybe if you happen to see this guy again you could possibility demo him and post it here for review.
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #79 on: July 19, 2010, 06:45:35 PM »

well are we trying to figure out the max score a human can get reasonably get or the highest an aimbot can get on an open space map where it can kill everyone AS they spawn? and if the secound with or without factoring for captures and defense kills?
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RMF
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« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2010, 05:15:52 PM »

No we're not, as I already said there is no way to check if someone's aimbotting or not by checking any score, accuracy or kills stats.
There is another topic (or maybe earlier this topic, not sure) where other techniques are listed and discussed though.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #81 on: July 21, 2010, 07:49:22 AM »

No we're not, as I already said there is no way to check if someone's aimbotting or not by checking any score, accuracy or kills stats.
There is another topic (or maybe earlier this topic, not sure) where other techniques are listed and discussed though.

Real Aimbot thread :
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3206.50

This project is not dead, it's being discussed elsewhere.

On this matter :

Quote
Anomaly detection, also referred to as outlier detection[1] refers to detecting patterns in a given data set that do not conform to an established normal behavior.

There are three fundamental approaches to the problem of outlier detection:

    * Type 1 - Determine the outliers with no prior knowledge of the data. This is essentially a learning approach analogous to unsupervised clustering. The approach processes the data as a static distribution, pinpoints the most remote points, and flags them as potential outliers.
    * Type 2 - Model both normality and abnormality. This approach is analogous to supervised classification and requires pre-labelled data, tagged as normal or abnormal.
    * Type 3 - Model only normality (or in a few cases model abnormality). This is analogous to a semi-supervised recognition or detection task. It may be considered semi-supervised as the normal class is taught but the algorithm learns to recognise abnormality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomaly_detection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlier#Identifying_outliers

The solution I propose is of the 3rd type.
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Haverford
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« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2010, 04:02:57 PM »

Actually there was another problem with negative values of cl_timenudge and not unlagged engine : if a client has set cg_smoothclients to 1 and has a negative timenudge , it could happen to see enemies into walls . I remember this kind of effect in OA071.

Not to bring up an old topic, but that happens to me...all the time. That's why I've been accused of aimbotting before. On my really good days, that is. Tongue

I average a ping between 130 and 200, usually only play instantgib, and average a score of 200-350 a game. It often happens that my railshots will seem to bend around walls a tiny bit, or else "cut the corner" to hit the player. There have even been instances that confuse the heck out of me where I shoot and kill a player, but the mark of the railgun impact is on a wall in front of me (say, I'm on a ramp and the dead player is above me). True.

That kind of thing REALLY makes people suspicious. People who spec me sometimes say that it looks like I'm shooting in a direction different (or totally opposite) the direction in which I am moving. Usually they say I appear to be shooting off to the side and hitting anyway, therefore must be cheating.

I've been around long enough that the accusations have stopped, as I have too high of a ping to actually use an aimbot, but still. Strange stuff.

-

As for modeling normality as a means of anomaly detection:

If one can design an algorithm that is somehow an amalgam of many legitimate players' accuracy statistics, grouped by ping (0-50, 51-75, 76-100, so on) then that might just be a good thing to hardcode into the engine.

I mean, how did PunkBuster work?

Since client movements are sent to you, aimbots can simply hook the engine and figure it out. But as we've seen with things like ZPM in the past, it's possible to send all client movement and position data to the server, where it is all calculated on the fly.

I hope I'm not being too tangential. Since I hope to set up a server soon, cheat prevention is pretty high on my list. Smiley
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RMF
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« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2010, 12:51:44 PM »

Spotted a new type of aimbot yesterdayevening. This one moves the view towards the player at an very high speed, shoots, and turns back the way it was looking originally.
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2010, 02:32:48 PM »

And always starts a vote to prevent himself for being kicked.
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RMF
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« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2010, 05:51:22 PM »

hm he didn't do that when i was there. But yep also exists.
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2010, 10:26:03 PM »

Spotted a new type of aimbot yesterdayevening. This one moves the view towards the player at an very high speed, shoots, and turns back the way it was looking originally.
this is what i was facing when i posted before.
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RMF
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« Reply #87 on: July 29, 2010, 07:27:36 AM »

Oh was just reading back when that post was, and you wrote 'and the guys named was "twice" '. That's the same name as I saw! But when we asked him to leave he did, so not that much of a problem.
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Haverford
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« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2010, 07:31:39 AM »

Same or similar concept to the "popular" clienthook that made its way around the 'net before.

To be honest, I found that and downloaded it and then popped on some empty servers to see just how it works. It missed just about every time, and apparently requires low ping to actually be accurate - it seems to ignore all clientside latency compensation despite being clientside itself. But it only works on 0.8.1 servers. Come to think of it, I've not seen an aimbot on an 0.8.5 server (yet) but then again, there aren't that many of those.

It all comes back to "why are client movements sent to YOU and not all calculated server-side?"

I'm no programmer, but I think such an undertaking would involve a complete re-work of the ioq3/OA engine itself, which is a lot more than I presently understand. Sad

Anyone here who's a server admin, please blackhole "Twice" ...
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2010, 04:29:21 PM »

well i dont know about your test but when i was specing this guy he would snap around to where someone was spawning and hit them everytime. you could tell that it wasnt a human. also when i was on his team and was pushing him off the platforms he couldnt hit me for sh*t, i was moving around and his aim was that bad Wink
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2010, 08:04:17 PM »

It all comes back to "why are client movements sent to YOU and not all calculated server-side?"

From what I understood, players movements (mouse movement) are converted into view angles, and then sent to the server and to your own client game to draw the new scene. So everything is calculated serverside, that's why delag could be implemented. The only thing that cannot be made serverside are the clients inputs, so yeah, there will always be a way to hook and simulate keystrokes.

Punkbuster tried to circumvent that by providing a detection for hooks and external hacking tools. It behaved like an antivirus, but for games cheats.

The problem is that you can always hack the system, it's just harder, and you can be globally banned via your cdkey, but it was still possible if you were careful enough. Punkbuster only worked because there were employees who would everyday look for new hacks and integrate countermeasures in the PB database.
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RMF
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« Reply #91 on: July 30, 2010, 07:57:48 AM »

Quote
To be honest, I found that and downloaded it and then popped on some empty servers to see just how it works. It missed just about every time, and apparently requires low ping to actually be accurate - it seems to ignore all clientside latency compensation despite being clientside itself. But it only works on 0.8.1 servers. Come to think of it, I've not seen an aimbot on an 0.8.5 server (yet) but then again, there aren't that many of those.
You should put delag hitscan off when using that old bot, it calculates the lag already and aims in front of the other player. And there actually is an version for 085 here
yeah that wasn't the link ofcourse, but there really is an 085 version
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #92 on: July 30, 2010, 10:31:57 AM »

why would you give advice on making bots run better? if some noob is using one and lagging to much for it to be effective then i say "whoopy!" Cheesy
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RMF
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« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2010, 12:43:35 PM »

Do you want me to put 'for educational purposes only' on?
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Thoushaltdie
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« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2010, 01:03:59 PM »

lol i was just mostly teasing Wink
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RMF
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« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2010, 05:43:32 PM »

lol ok Tongue
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TheJoker
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« Reply #96 on: June 12, 2013, 11:31:04 AM »

Not only that.... did you spectate them and make sure they were using it? I mean...I get 40 kills per minute and do not use aimbot :\ they could just be good players. However, there IS an aimbot problem...but you can't just assume someone is using an aimbot because of a high score :B

This is super late.. Didn't realise it received so many replies o.O.

But yeah I spectated them and could tell.. Saying that, recently I haven't seen any round (have just started playing within the last 5 months again). Or maybe I just don't spend enough time on Insta maps anymore aha.
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Kyle
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« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2014, 06:13:57 AM »

 
You can't really use aimbot in a RPG..
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Gig
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« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2014, 06:37:12 AM »

Hey man, you posted something like 5 partially out-of-context comments in various posts (e.g. this is NOT an RPG. A sentence about RPG is senseless.). Please think before posting, thank you.

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4808.msg50139#msg50139 (What's the connection with Warsow?)
http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=4592.msg50137#msg50137 (OUYA cost isn't our interest. OpenArena OUYA edition yes (and there is a thread for that), but console price in a specific country not. Also, that one is an old thread from when OUYA was not realesed yet. Now OUYA exist, and if you are interested into purchasing, you can give a look to http://www.oyua.tv).

Sorry if I can seem overly harsh, but 5 of such posts sound strange.  Smiley
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 07:06:15 AM by Gig » Logged

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