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Author Topic: An example of why OA devs care about the source and licensing of their content  (Read 10010 times)
TwEeK!
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« on: February 04, 2011, 08:40:52 AM »

Didn't see any other mention of this around here, so for what it's worth:

Apple slow to respond to counterfeit app on Mac App Store:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/02/game-developer-losing-money-to-counterfeit-copy-on-mac-app-store.ars?comments=1#comments-bar

The Case of the Identical Rabbit Games:
http://kotaku.com/5750238/the-case-of-the-identical-rabbit-games

Pirated App Sold On Mac App Store:
http://apple.slashdot.org/story/11/02/03/1335213/Pirated-App-Sold-On-Mac-App-Store

To some, the OA devs may seem overly uptight about where a given texture has come from at times, but the above situation is exactly what they are trying to avoid becoming embroiled in. We should be thrilled that id Software released their source code for all to use and enjoy, but we also need to understand exactly what they have given us to work with.  Three cheers for the OA developers in continually trying to maintain a legal, respectful game based on id Software's source code, without violating the rights of others!

-- TwEeK!
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fromhell
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2011, 08:07:10 PM »

And this is exactly why I facepalm when someone forks OA, since it's usually just "OA + conflicting copyrighted stuff they refuse to accept anyway". There are very VERY few exceptions to this off the top of my head:

- TMNT Arena, though there are huge trademark violations there, but otherwise it does it 'right' from scratch, sources readily available for all of its media, etc.
- that one aussie university one turning OA into some process manager like xdoom

I probably forgot a few... but this is just off the top of my head.

I don't mean to brag but i'm very VERY vigilant about things like this more than the usual gpl game projects which seem to operate on some 'ignorance is bliss' kind of basis regarding scavenged stuff which is ironic considering their loyalty to the GPL license, in other words, tons of gettingcrappasttheradar to dfsg.

When I tried to notify some of them they percieved me as some competitive troll wanting to sabotage others' projects... two of them had the thief threatened to quit (or some other melodrama defense) until I dropped my 'accusations' and the thief was favored. YEAH OKAY WHATEVER I won't do that anymore.  Enjoy yourselves.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 08:18:42 PM by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
Udi
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 10:54:44 PM »

What happened to Lugaru is said. Maybe it turned to an Apple rant, rather than of "come on, read the license" rant, considering the speed the VLC app and other GPL based apps are removed from the AppStore. But kudos to fromhell and TwEeK! and all the other contributors who acknowledge the reason and philosophy behind GPL and leaving the IP rights intact! Sadly there are too many so called open-source projects out there which don't respect the one or the other (yeah, I'm looking at you Manic Digger, you indie copying b@stard) and put the other projects in shame.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 06:17:14 AM »

Yep. And I would even dare to say that many of the drama in this forum comes from this.

It seems that several people don't give a single curse about GPL (or the project, for that matter) and, if you try to make them to follow the rules in this regard, they automatically call you a "GPL/FSF freak".
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 08:24:12 AM by |TXC| Neon_Knight » Logged


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MasterSplinter
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 11:55:09 AM »

- TMNT Arena, though there are huge trademark violations there, but otherwise it does it 'right' from scratch, sources readily available for all of its media, etc.

o.o

TM.....N.............T'ah.....T'ah.......Turtle Arena?!!

I am gonna look that up.
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fromhell
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 10:00:07 PM »

http://ztm.x10hosting.com/ta/index.htm
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
MasterSplinter
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 01:41:43 AM »


Thanks!
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PopeJo
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 04:23:46 AM »

YEAH OKAY WHATEVER I won't do that anymore.  Enjoy yourselves.

oh, we do. thank you.
feels great, by the way.

...its 1 year since the last patch, 1 and 1/2 since the last OA version. forking OA did bring a lot more variety, change and for me: fun back into OA.

on topic: I don't see how an apple "app" that is sold on the iOS App Store has any relevant parallels to a OA.
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Gig
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 05:28:01 AM »

The parallel is the GPL license is not a joke, and something can be "free" in different ways.

That "Lugaru HD" source code is under GPL license (like the source code of Q3A, and the ioquake3 engine, too). Someone took the "Lugaru HD" game and re-published under the name of "Lugaru", claiming that the GPL license allows for it.
But, in reality, only the source code is under GPL (that allows commercial use): if I don't misunderstand, part of the game files are under CC-BY-SA license (that allows commercial use), and all the rest of textures, model, etc. is under a license that does NOT allow commercial use. This means that they could have created a new game from scratch, taking only the engine from the original (like OpenArena did with Quake III), and the part of stuff that is under a free license. But not everything. They cannot re-destribute the original game and get money from it, as they did.
More, probably the name is a trademark violation.

Being ever 100% sure of the source and of the license of each item (texture, model, map...) that we put into OpenArena is important to avoid legal problems...
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PopeJo
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 12:07:29 PM »

thx for the detailed explanation  Smiley

I just wanted to troll lielol a bit, who did "brag" and said "i'm very VERY vigilant about things like this". would be nice to see ppl being more vigilant about releasing a new oa version  Wink
I still don't think being "very VERY vigilant" about licensing is that relevant for oa, but yes, it was a lame way to get my point across  Tongue
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fromhell
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 06:36:33 PM »

oh, we do. thank you.
it was about copyright infraction notifying, aka 'evil trolling'. Theways i've got burned for being informative about such material has lead me not to provide the help in bringing such things up anymore. They can live with their risks of having non-Free files distributed in Free software. It's not my problem anyway.

I still don't think being "very VERY vigilant" about licensing is that relevant for oa
it is very relevant if you wish for this game to be Free.

about releasing a new oa version  Wink
I AM ONLY ONE TECHNICAL ARTIST. Though, that's finally going to change within the coming months! Cheesy
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
befno
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 11:44:03 AM »

The parallel is the GPL license is not a joke, and something can be "free" in different ways.

That "Lugaru HD" source code is under GPL license (like the source code of Q3A, and the ioquake3 engine, too). Someone took the "Lugaru HD" game and re-published under the name of "Lugaru", claiming that the GPL license allows for it.
But, in reality, only the source code is under GPL (that allows commercial use): if I don't misunderstand, part of the game files are under CC-BY-SA license (that allows commercial use), and all the rest of textures, model, etc. is under a license that does NOT allow commercial use. This means that they could have created a new game from scratch, taking only the engine from the original (like OpenArena did with Quake III), and the part of stuff that is under a free license. But not everything. They cannot re-destribute the original game and get money from it, as they did.
More, probably the name is a trademark violation.

Being ever 100% sure of the source and of the license of each item (texture, model, map...) that we put into OpenArena is important to avoid legal problems...

Yes, but the thing here is that wolfire bundled the game content, models, textures, and such, with the source code, and said that the content was free to share.  If that was the case, then those who put the other Lugaru could sell their GPL'ed modification and offer the content that uses it.  The only error I see is in the name, they should've changed that.
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Udi
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 11:58:58 AM »

Yes, but the thing here is that wolfire bundled the game content, models, textures, and such, with the source code, and said that the content was free to share.

The content license says, that:
Quote
All other game assets and demo data (should all be in "Data" folder
in the root of the source tree) are not under the same license.
Wolfire has allowed the other data to be freely redistributed
for non commercial purposes, but it is forbidden to use in any revenue
generating works
.
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http://udionline.hu/en/projektek/openarena/
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chaoticsoldier
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2011, 08:14:42 PM »

I AM ONLY ONE TECHNICAL ARTIST. Though, that's finally going to change within the coming months! Cheesy
This sounds like great news. Cheesy
...Can you elaborate?
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PopeJo
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2011, 02:58:26 PM »

I AM ONLY ONE TECHNICAL ARTIST. Though, that's finally going to change within the coming months! Cheesy
This sounds like great news. Cheesy
...Can you elaborate?
being pregnant  Wink
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Peter Silie
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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2011, 08:59:09 AM »

ROFL
+1
(but if you are right, i will draw it back Wink )
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