oa_ctf4ish needs balance for campers

[Gig]

Poll results at 20, june 2010:

being able to shoot through the "grid"     - 10 (58.8%)
remove railgun    - 3 (17.6%)
replace with something else say nailgun,lightning, or hey maybe battlesuit    - 1 (5.9%)
put a trap similar to tourney6ish_ctf    - 2 (11.8%)
some sort of hazard on the platform(lava,slime,electricity)    - 1 (5.9%)
remove platforms and have the railgun suspended    - 0 (0%)
move the platforms behind that base and extend the whole map    - 0 (0%)
moving platforms? (this idea needs work)    - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 17

Well, It seems that shooting through the grid is the most voted option... So... who is a mapper here? Or a coder that can fix the shader? As told before, since compatibility with Q3A is a goal for OpenArena, if that map uses the same shader (same name?) as the original one, fixing it should fix compatibility with all maps designed for Q3A that use that shader. If that shader, instead, is not the same used in other Q3 maps, we could decide do make a copy of it and modify that copy (and modify the map)...

Please, someone that knows what and how to do....

[Udi]

If that shader, instead, is not the same used in other Q3 maps, we could decide do make a copy of it and modify that copy (and modify the map)...

It's not the same shader, q3ctf4 uses base_floor/cybergrate3 while oa_ctf4ish uses base_floor/cybergrate2. Both can be found in OA 0.8.1, so I think the best way is to replace the grid in the map: screenshot.

[Thoushaltdie]

i have looked though maps in the game and it really doesnt seem like there IS a shader that you can shoot through. the closest is the map suppended. which can have plasma and rockets go through the floor. but im not a mapper or coder so i may be horribly off and either way i cant fix this 

[Peter Silie]

It's not the same shader, q3ctf4 uses base_floor/cybergrate3 while oa_ctf4ish uses base_floor/cybergrate2. Both can be found in OA 0.8.1, so I think the best way is to replace the grid in the map: screenshot.

Oooops, didn´t knew that (because i neither had played q3 nor had a copy of this game).
So options are open again

[[uM]Cyberdemon]

hello,

i havent read through the whole topic but i just want to add this topic here:

http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=2285.0

there was a similiar discussion. i also made some alternatives, you find in the end of the topic. the filelinks are dead but i will try to upload them to 6r-clan http server. maybe there are some copies out there. i remember cacatoes uploaded some these ctf4ish versions  but this was a long time ago =).

i will let you know when there are working links.

[Gig]

Guys, what are we going to do now?

[Peter Silie]

Replacing the shader?

[Gig]

For me it's ok, but someone able to do it should do it...

[Peter Silie]

I tooked a look into "tribute", but there are only the aas and bsp.
Too lazy to search for the map with the browser frontend

[Neon_Knight]

If you want the .map file, try searching in the <root>/Source/Assets/Maps folder.

[Peter Silie]

thx, my friend from argentina (even if we will have some internal problems on saturday )

[[uM]Cyberdemon]

i almost thought i lost the maps, but few days ago i found them again

after MIOW helped me to upload the files i can now give the link to you:

http://6r-clan.org/maps/oactf4ish_alt.7z


the 7z file includes 4 pk3 files. besides each pk3 file includes a foulder where you can find the .map file.

have fun and thanks to miow!


PS: maybe the domain where the 4ish-files (including meisterlampe's maps) are storaged soon switches, but i provide you with the new address then

[Gig]

http://6r-clan.org/maps/oactf4ish_alt.7z
the 7z file includes 4 pk3 files. besides each pk3 file includes a foulder where you can find the .map file.

- oa_ctf4ishum1: this one replaces the two railguns with plasma guns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum2: this one replaces the two railguns with chainguns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum3: this one replaces the two railguns with nailguns. And the bfg with a railgun and a personal teleporter.
- oa_ctf4ishum4: this one does not replace/remove the railguns. It simply removes the bfg, placing a personal teleporter there.

In all of them you cannot shoot through grids. I don't feel they could be our best solution...

Strange, I tried the personal teleporter various times (once per map), and it always teleported me over one of the bounce-pads that bring up to the moving platform...

[[uM]Cyberdemon]

shooting through the grid was no option in those days. i just changed the stuff we talked about in the topic above (see my recent post: reply #79). as i have mentioned yet: campers+oa_ctf4ish was always a hot topic. i cannot change what the teleporter does.. i think but preventing you from falling into the void is quite a good deal. even if you always spawn at the same point.

it definately isnt the best solution. actually it is a one year old version =). but go forth and just change the properties of the gridbrush. its quite a quick job. these 4 maps were made before this poll was made.

[Gig]

but go forth and just change the properties of the gridbrush. its quite a quick job. these 4 maps were made before this poll was made.

I would do it if I know how to do it.

Peter Sillie, on his posts 81, 83 and 85, seemed going to do it... but then he disappeared (he didn't write any post in the forums since 29 june)... maybe on vacation?

[adriano]

I would change rail gun with chain gun or plasma gun and BFG change with nail gun or 5-shot proxy mine.

Mmmm I am thinking about restyling the map (weapons and armor change, make the map a little bigger (e.g. make the middle platform bigger and put new items on it or do some other things) aka doing a oa_ctf4ish version 2. I can't do it, I'm not a mapper, but firstly what do YOU think about it?

[Peter Silie]

Peter Sillie, on his posts 81, 83 and 85, seemed going to do it... but then he disappeared (he didn't write any post in the forums since 29 june)... maybe on vacation?

Not on vacation, just veryyyyyy lazy.
you can submit the map file by yourself:
1: dl the file from the repo http://openarena.ws/svn/source/assets/maps/oa_ctf4ish.map (omg, i was too blind i guess )
2: modify the 2 lines 2297 and 2324 (change "cybergrate2" to "cybergrate3" as Udi (big thx!!) told above)
3: commit the map file in the svn thread (hopefully one of the mapper will make a compile ) - because it is derived from the original gpl map, which is known by all of us, you even do not need to make the whole "gpl and the rest of the universe" stuff
4: i would do it by myself, but no webspace here (and i do not like this rapidshare sites )

That should be all to have the version with the original grid...

Good luck!

[Edit]: clean up the gpl stuff i wrote about

[Udi]

I've tried to correct the grid, but apparently it's not a shader problem I suspected before. Changing the shader to cybergrate3 does not solve the problem. So far I figured out, that setting both side of the brush to the 'clip' common shader makes the grid penetrable, but if I set both sides there's no texture left. I've put a cybergrate3 shadered brush into a clip shadered brush, but the missiles won't get trough . If a mapper would give a tip, how I should apply both the cybergrate3 and the clip shader, I would be grateful. I've read some tutorials, but I'm still a mapping noob. I just need some hints, and then I can compile the map just fine.

[Peter Silie]

Just to clear up the things for me:
you selected the whole brush and mapped the weapon clip texture to all 6 sides.
After this you selected just one side of the brush and give this side the cybergrate3 shader.

This combo does not work?

[Gig]

4: i would do it by myself, but no webspace here (and i do not like this rapidshare sites )

Uhm? When you post in this forum, click on "Additional Options", you can upload files... it says that you can upload .map and .pk3 files, upload up to 3082KB (and this .map is 495 KB, I don't know about the .bsp, but one could try to pack into .zip or .pk3).

[Udi]

you selected the whole brush and mapped the weapon clip texture to all 6 sides.
After this you selected just one side of the brush and give this side the cybergrate3 shader.

Exactly, with the only difference that I use 'clip' instead of 'weapclip', since weapclip blocks the weapons too. Only if I set all the 6 sides to clip will the missiles go through. If I set the upper side to cybergrate3, rockets shots from above do splash on the top, but if shot from under, there's no rocket splash, but the rockets won't get trough. I use the GIT snapshot of Netradiant 1.5, 12 July 2010, maybe that's the problem.

[Peter Silie]

@Gig: didn´t knew, that i can upload such huge files. anyway: web space would be a better place - otherwise leilo will kill me
@Udi: maybe playerclip should be the right choice. i had expected, that a simple brush with 5 sided playerclip and topside with the shader should work fine. maybe a bug in the shader? the shader should contain the neccessary commands...

If not, you could try a very small shader brush (.1 units) and a surrounding clipping brush. And (dunno if you know about, just make sure that you take a note) be sure to rename your map to ctf4ish_b or something like this, to prevent oa of making strange things )

In all other cases : HELP!!!

[Udi]

If not, you could try a very small shader brush (.1 units) and a surrounding clipping brush.

It could work, but I could only set it to .125, and sometimes the shots get through, sometimes not. Source file in the .pk3, no aas: z_oactf4ish_2.pk3

[Gig]

It could work, but I could only set it to .125, and sometimes the shots get through, sometimes not. Source file in the .pk3, no aas: z_oactf4ish_2.pk3

I tested it. Some parts of the grid are penetrable by weapons, others not. I noticed another thing (but it seems to affect also the "original" oa_ctf4ish, altough I didn't notice it before): when you stay over the platform, look down: objects like health globes are shown through the "solid" part of the grate (that solid part is "opaque" for the map itself, but semi-transparent for such objects).

[Udi]

I tested it. Some parts of the grid are penetrable by weapons, others not.

Even if I scale the cybergrate3 brush to the height of 0.0124 I cannot always shoot through the grid, it's seems to fail as frequently as with 0.125 height.

The semi-transparent effect is a shader issue, I will fix it.