oa_ctf4ish needs balance for campers

[Peter Silie]

Could somebody plz post the cybergrate3 shader?
i have no real chance to inspect this file with my netbook, because it seems, that it just includes LF instead of LF&CR.
If the shader is fine and the brushes are done well: could it be a bug in ioquake?

[Gig]

Uhm... I unpacked all Q3A pk3s and then searched for "cybergrate".
I found only two TGA images, that you can find attached here, cybergrate2.tga and cybergrate3.tga (in pak4-textures.pk3\textures\base-floor)
There are no .shader files called "cybergrate", and it seems there is no file that contains "cybergrate" word in ASCII...

[Udi]

There are no .shader files called "cybergrate", and it seems there is no file that contains "cybergrate" word in ASCII...

I've posted the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/List_of_OA_shaders]full list of shaders on the Wiki. The cybergrate3 shader is in the clown.shader file:

Code:

textures/base_floor/cybergrate3
{
cull disable
surfaceparm alphashadow
surfaceparm metalsteps
surfaceparm nomarks
{
map textures/sfx/portal_sfx_ring_electric.tga
tcmod scroll 1 -1
blendfunc add
}
{
map textures/base_floor/cybergrate3.tga
alphaFunc GE128
rgbGen identity

}
{
map $lightmap
blendFunc filter
rgbGen identity
}
}

It's the one which fixes the semi-transparent health orb's, the alphaFunc GE128 was a blendFunc blend earlier. I think the shader is alright, since the Q3 shader has the same surface parameters.

[Gig]

If I open clown.shader file with notpad, I can find the "cybergrate" inside it. I wonder why Windows XP's search function did not find it...

[andrewj]

Only if I set all the 6 sides to clip will the missiles go through.

The map compiler (q3map2) will determine the kind of brush (clipping, detail, etc) from its very first side in its brush definition in the .MAP file.

So what you may need to do is edit the .MAP file with a text editor, find that brush (e.g. by giving one side a funny texture name), and cut-n-paste the first side to the second side.

Actually after thinking about it, I think it really needs two brushes there: a detail one for the grating and a playerclip one for the physics.

[Udi]

The map compiler (q3map2) will determine the kind of brush (clipping, detail, etc) from its very first side in its brush definition in the .MAP file.

Thanks, andrewj, it works ! Here's the map for testing (remove previous pk3): z_oactf4ish2_v2.pk3

[Peter Silie]

Not tested yet, but i trust in you.
Great work, Udi (and thx to andrewj)!

[Gig]

Thank you, Udi.
But there are some things...
- The BFG platform seems not fixed yet.
- The "semi-transparent" bug is not fixed (go on a platform, look down and you can see helth globes where the grid should hide them)
- Another thing, but this one is not important: I noticed that, when you shoot a rocket from down to up, trying to hit the camper, if you miss him, the rocket disappears soon... is it possible to have the invisible upper map limit a little "higher", to make the rockets disapper some moments later? I repeat, this one is not important... but since we're here...

[Peter Silie]

Unfortunaly skyboxes are just an optical trick.
even if you widen up the sky, the rocket will suddenly disapear.
Same effect, if you shoot to the "walls" or on the "floor".

[Gig]

Unfortunaly skyboxes are just an optical trick.
even if you widen up the sky, the rocket will suddenly disapear.
Same effect, if you shoot to the "walls" or on the "floor".

I understand that it is not possible to have them to not disappear, but is it possible to have them do it more meters above?

[adriano]

Info: We Italians are discussing here about what to change in oa_ctf4ish (shurely in Italian=) generally. Then maybe a new 4ish come out of the water.

[Udi]

- The BFG platform seems not fixed yet.

Didn't know if that one also needs a fix. But is it a good idea? The BFG camper can also shoot through from above, so we just give him the perfect spot to shoot everywhere. Now if he shoots the platform he will be at least knocked down.

- The "semi-transparent" bug is not fixed (go on a platform, look down and you can see helth globes where the grid should hide them)

I posted the fixed shader above, will include it into the next release.

- Another thing, but this one is not important: I noticed that, when you shoot a rocket from down to up, trying to hit the camper, if you miss him, the rocket disappears soon...

I also noticed it, tried to heighten the ceiling but I screwed it. I will try another time.

[Gig]

- The BFG platform seems not fixed yet.

Didn't know if that one also needs a fix. But is it a good idea? The BFG camper can also shoot through from above, so we just give him the perfect spot to shoot everywhere. Now if he shoots the platform he will be at least knocked down.

But if the camper looks down to fire next to the Kamikaze, he will not be able to defend himself from the two railers on the other platforms....
Anyway, if we want to do not let the bullets pass through the BFG platform, we should remove the grid and make the platform "solid".

[Udi]

But if the camper looks down to fire next to the Kamikaze, he will not be able to defend himself from the two railers on the other platforms....
Anyway, if we want to do not let the bullets pass through the BFG platform, we should remove the grid and make the platform "solid".

On q3_ctf4 the BFG platform is like the rail platform, there's a solid frame and there's the cybergrate3 grid in the middle which can be shot through. Let's see if I can pull this off.

BTW, we get closer to the original, do we need the kamikaze ?

[Gig]

My idea was to have it like the original... anyway we can change it if needed.

[pulchr]

it will be interesting to see the result of these changes. has the problem with the rocket launcher been adressed?
i'm talking about the rocket launcher that is floating in mid air above the central platform. with maxfps set at 125 the rocket launcher will not always be picked up. i did some testing regarding this a long time ago and the quote below is from that thread

this has annoyed myself as well. did a quick test nudging the rocket launcher upwards 16 units and it fixed the problem for maxfps 125.
however those out there having maxfps set at 333 will still fly above it, but i guess the amount of players using 333 are far less than those with maxfps set at 125.

i did a test using increments of 5 from 10 up to 125 and then the snapping values from 125 up to 333 and all settings between picked up the rocket launcher.
note: it did not matter if i jumped at the top of the jump pad or walked in on the target zone.

so, if the rocket launcher in the middle is nudged 16 units straight up all players will be able to pick it up (except those with maxfps 333).

[Udi]

Next: z_oactf4ish2_v3.pk3

• BFG platform much smaller and penetrable
• skybox enlarged, which made the map darker, some lights added
• floating rocket moved 16 units higher
• aas file

[Peter Silie]

 

[Gig]

Tried it... I find it nice... :-)

[adriano]

Next: z_oactf4ish2_v3.pk3

• BFG platform much smaller and penetrable
• skybox enlarged, which made the map darker, some lights added
• floating rocket moved 16 units higher
• aas file

From that 4 points I like all but not the second one. I think the lights were better how they was.

[adriano]

What do you think about this?

(BFG platform must be modificated and wall that is on right side should be on left, too.)

[Thoushaltdie]

i say get rid of the nail gun, plasma and kamakaize they arent needed on the map and it feels like they add too much clutter. and why are you changing the bfg to chain? this is the only map that has the bfg and it really isnt that bad to have on the map. i think it should stay but thats just my opinion

[adriano]

Ok, thank you for your opinion ! What do the others think?

About the weapons:
- Firstly I thought of adding nail gun, but then I wasn't anymore so much sure, so I put it in parentheses.
- I think plasma because "what else would you add on rail platform?" and because it can be useful when jump down to flag-platform and want to kill some enemys from a good middle range.
- I put the rocket there, so it is fast reachable from base (without leaving it) and it should be a used weapon.
- BFG? Isn't that a bit too noobish "BFG vs shotgun" e.g. ? The chain gun is an alternative. It is a strenght weapon, but you can anyway defend a bit (at least one shotgun shot).
- The rail gun on that place prevents too much camping. And I don't want to remove the rail completely.




Additional things (that you maybe don't see):
- the rail platform has a little bit larger size than normal in order to hit easier the lateral side of the middle transparent thing.
- behind the flag on base there is a jumppad (good for defenders to get fast a weapon and also good for carrier because often the defenders wait a platform under flag plastform till the carrier comes down and then it is always an easy fragg for the defender)
- the wall is a defense for rail campers but also it is a wall where you can shot to to damage the enemy standing on that platform.

[Peter Silie]

i am happy with the modified grid.
no more changes needed imho

[Udi]

Ok, thank you for your opinion ! What do the others think?

As for me, I wouldn't change oa_ctf4ish that much. I only agree with the floating railgun in the middle, if I remember QL has the same. But it's still a Q3 tribute map, and it won't be included in the next release, so I wouldn't spend a lot of time improving it.

From that 4 points I like all but not the second one. I think the lights were better how they was.

I like the new lights better, it finally looks like a real space map, everything is darker and the jumppads and portals are really glowing. But I still have to test visibility with some OA models, so it's not final.