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Author Topic: Presentation of ROFL servers  (Read 30073 times)
Cacatoes
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« on: June 07, 2010, 07:20:08 am »

ROFL is a network of servers, ruled by several administrators.

Actually we have like 4 machines:

- One hosted by OVH, paid by a generous donator who isn't playing often anymore. It has been mostly hosting Allrockets and Instagib servers. It has good ping.
- Another hosted on OVH, whose admins (Dan, Mathieu) have other uses, and who don't play frequently either. It hosts a Defrag server, and a CTF. It has good ping.
- One hosted by TuxFamily, an association promoting free softwares. It traditionnaly ran a Deathmatch server, and one other usually CTF. It has average ping.
- One self-hosted, which has higher ping, it has been running Beta Maps or other experiments ; recently it has been mostly off.
Except the one hosted by Dan & Mathieu, I have SSH access to the 3 other servers.

Now about the game modes they're running:
(note: they can heavily change depending on the mood, success, lazyness)

* ROFL Instantgib. This server has been mostly played by beginner players, it has 16 slots which is a lot and it has maps more advanced players may not like.
* ROFL Allrockets CTF. A few CTF maps in rotation, for the rest the name says it all. Some good players there.
* ROFL CTF 4 Fishes. A server running only one map. Like Oasago2, this map has found its playerbase. It's very rare when this map is changed because players like to stick to it. I'm often playing here Cheesy
* ROFL A few DM maps. 3 maps in rotation (wrackdm17, oa_shine, am_galmevish). Goal was to have efficient DM matches, I think it's fulfilled.
* ROFL Yo Quiero Follar. One of the latest experiments. Many prepared game modes, many things to vote for, but few players on it.
* ROFL For Beginner Players. An attempt to make a CTF heaven for beginner players. Sometimes more advanced players and are not always kind, I think they are simply looking for human players when other servers are a bit empty.
* ROFL The Arena. Experiment of today. Very simple elimination with one map (am_galmevish). Weapon changes at each round and it will go from minigun to BFG.
* ROFL OxC Defrag. A Defrag server running older version of OA.
* ROFL Crappy CTF. I think it has a single map in rotation (oasago2), a few additionnal PK3s, and pmove_fixed 1. I'm not sure it found its playerbase as a similar server (SupeR,CTF) answers the need.

Maybe obvious but you can contact me by:
- PM on this forum / The french OA community site / Jabber / Email / MSN

Edit: changed the server name
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 04:53:10 am by Cacatoes » Logged

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Logan
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2010, 05:54:16 am »

This is all good to know...

Now just get a better ping for Canadian players like myself and I'm in! Azn
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 08:16:32 am »

News:

- we'll try to stick with pmove_float 1, and we won't change gravity unless on specific maps. (g_gravity has to be set AFTER the map is loaded)
- added g_gravity 790 for each ps37ctf map, so that players are able to cross the wall. That value seems enough for that effect.
- added g_catchup set to 1 on For Beginner Players, it's the only server I know of on which it is set.
- videoflags finally set to 0 (or 1) on most servers, I left it by default (7...) but some servers were unpure and I think they didn't take that value into account.
- allrockets CTF, I hesitated to switch to CTF Elimination because of the additionnal weapon options it has (no self damage). I thought it only had advantages over normal CTF but with Ellimination players can't respawn until the end of the match and that's not a wanted behaviour in our case. I have tried several combination of maps, and finally sticked to 3 main maps without that 4th map players always skipped. (I tried to bring a bit of variety but it turned to be annoyance). Sorry if it's sometimes left in a not so proper state, I forgot to close some quotes in map rotation yesterday, and tried weird combination of maps and so I think it went a big wrong, now it's fixed.
- changed player slots from 16 to 12 on Instantgib server. Elected Thor and Cocotero as level 3 administrator on this server. (until recently I didn't even took the time to set myself as an admin on most servers).
- not very new, but "yo quiero follar" has a few specific stuff. Game modes of course, but also ... music. Yes, I dared. And also some additionnal maps.

Note: I'll try to use that topic to keep track of changes I make to servers, and eventually discuss them.
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RMF
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 08:30:29 am »

what do g_catchup and videoflags do?
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 08:34:40 am »

videoflags is a restriction on video modes players can use, was meant to bring fairness.
It's restrictive by default (set on 7), only applies on 0.8.5+ servers.

g_catchup is described by sago there: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1908.msg27739#msg27739
It's some way to set handicap automatically, thus to reduce the frag count difference and damage between better and worse players.
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 10:21:54 am »

videoflags are broken due to differences in operating systems and really should not be used. 0 is completly non-restrictive and 1 are practically non-restrictive.

g_catchup could as well have been called g_autohandicap. A value of 1 means that:

A player with a score of 20 would only deal 95% damage to an enemy with score 10 or 90% damage to an enemy with score 5. Both the player with 5 and the player with 10 would deal 100% damage against each other and the player with 20.

g_catchup = 2 would have reduced the damage done by leading player to 90% and 80%
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 01:42:57 am »

g_catchup could as well have been called g_autohandicap. A value of 1 means that:

A player with a score of 20 would only deal 95% damage to an enemy with score 10 or 90% damage to an enemy with score 5. Both the player with 5 and the player with 10 would deal 100% damage against each other and the player with 20.

g_catchup = 2 would have reduced the damage done by leading player to 90% and 80%

What is the algorithm for calculation please ? For administrators to setup exactly this var ?
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 03:39:50 am »

What is the algorithm for calculation please ? For administrators to setup exactly this var ?

damageModifier = 100-min(50,(max(5,attacker-target)-5)*g_catchup)

attacker = killer's score
target = victim's score
damageModifier = damage dealt in percent (100% = full damage)
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Gig
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 08:31:52 am »

g_catchup tried locally. Nice! It is a shame it is not documented in the Wiki. I want to write something there (what's the better place for that?)...

What values do you suggest to server administrators?

How can clients know if a server has got this variable enabled? This one is a more general question... The "server info" page on the GUI doen't show many cvars (isn't there a way to scroll that page) and \serverinfo shows informations about your own server also when you are connected to another server... and the \serverstatus bug kicks you out.... how can players know how some cvars are set on the server, if they are not included in the ist?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 08:48:26 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 09:20:34 am »

g_catchup tried locally. Nice! It is a shame it is not documented in the Wiki. I want to write something there (what's the better place for that?)...

What values do you suggest to server administrators?

how can players know how some cvars are set on the server, if they are not included in the ist?
I thought I added a note about it in the example but I could be wrong. I don't add anything before an official release.

I suggest the value 5. Virtually all public servers would benefit from it, even the players that are hurt by it can indirectly benefit because there direct competitors are also affected making it harder to steal a top spot with only cheap kills. I don't know if I mentioned it but the value is ignored in team games.

They don't. It is a general problem. Some variables like g_catchup are only broadcasted when it is changed. The variables in "Server info" are the variables that the client need to know (like what map to load, the servername, values of pmove_* for prediction) there is a limit of 1024 characters for these, so only important ones are included.
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« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 10:04:09 am »

I don't add anything before an official release.
Uh? I don't know if you changed someting in its behavior in OAX, but g_catchup is included in oa 0.8.5 (and works: I tested it using g_debugdamage).

Quote
I don't know if I mentioned it but the value is ignored in team games.
It is important to know this. But why it is so?

Quote
They don't. It is a general problem.
What about adding a command to ask for a certain value on the server? Obviously, the rcon password should be protected from this.
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« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 10:17:37 am »

Uh? I don't know if you changed someting in its behavior in OAX, but g_catchup is included in oa 0.8.5 (I tested it using g_debugdamage).

It is important to know this. But why it is so?

What about adding a command to ask for a certain value on the server? Obviously, the rcon password should be protected from this.
I thought I had added it.

If implemented in team games it should depend on captured score, but it is not completly obvious how. In most team games but harvester one could separate with 2 captures, but for harvester it is non-trivial.

Maybe one could add a possibility for asking the server for a given whitelisted cvar (the ones that have "broadcast on change = true"). For things like this it is important to use a whitelist rather than a blacklist. Blacklists are insecure by design.
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 10:31:46 am »

I thought I had added it.
Excuse me... are you saying that simply you did not remember that it is included in 0.8.5? Smiley

Quote
If implemented in team games it should depend on captured score, but it is not completly obvious how. In most team games but harvester one could separate with 2 captures, but for harvester it is non-trivial.
Isn't there a way the server can distinguish the player scores given by captures/assists (do they give points?)/etc. from "real" frags? If not, in TDM and Elimination the individual score should be equal to the frags, I suppose... anyway probably you will not want to make exceptions only for that two.

Quote
Maybe one could add a possibility for asking the server for a given whitelisted cvar (the ones that have "broadcast on change = true"). For things like this it is important to use a whitelist rather than a blacklist. Blacklists are insecure by design.
It's okay for me. Do you think that you can do it? I wonder why idsoftware or ioquake3 guys did not do it...
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 11:09:50 am »

No. I thought it was in the wiki.

The problem is that "real" frags are not a very good measurement in team games. If I do the flag running and do not kill anyone my kills will be meaningless. On the other hand if a team is 6 captures behind the other team I can say something about the strength of the teams. Harvester is problemematic because a team could get 10 captures behind on purpose and then create a player with a 40 skull tail that would be very hard to kill.

Time is a valuable resource and it is a very low priority . And that is likely why it is not implemented.
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 11:21:45 am »

No. I thought it was in the wiki.
I can't find using the search function. Can I add it, using text from your posts, too?

Quote
Time is a valuable resource and it is a very low priority . And that is likely why it is not implemented.
I'd find a such "variable-info" function useful... (if you decide to do it, you get a cake), maybe even with "TAB-key" support to read multiple variables at once it would be great (but maybe you will find this too much).
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2010, 09:44:18 am »

No. I thought it was in the wiki.
I can't find using the search function. Can I add it, using text from your posts, too?
By "thought" I mean that I did not add anything. Yes, you can.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2010, 10:18:06 am »

What about adding a command to ask for a certain value on the server? Obviously, the rcon password should be protected from this.

Servers administrators can simply use "sets" instead of "set" to show publicly the value of the cvars they want. For example on OACL, we did

sets sv_fps 25
sets snaps 25 //useless for a server but at least it get shown, for those that don't know snaps is related to sv_fps

This way, anyone can see that they should set snaps to 25 by just issuing a /serverstatus.

Quote
If implemented in team games it should depend on captured score, but it is not completly obvious how. In most team games but harvester one could separate with 2 captures, but for harvester it is non-trivial.
Isn't there a way the server can distinguish the player scores given by captures/assists (do they give points?)/etc. from "real" frags? If not, in TDM and Elimination the individual score should be equal to the frags, I suppose... anyway probably you will not want to make exceptions only for that two.

It's a shame it does not work for team based games, it would have been so useful. Why don't you simply use the score+team capture ? I think it could be a simple good indicator of skills.
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2010, 10:37:35 am »

Servers administrators can simply use "sets" instead of "set" to show publicly the value of the cvars they want. For example on OACL, we did

sets sv_fps 25
sets snaps 25 //useless for a server but at least it get shown, for those that don't know snaps is related to sv_fps

This way, anyone can see that they should set snaps to 25 by just issuing a /serverstatus.
This is already something. But the server admin has to remember to use "sets" for some game options variables, maybe we could add it DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Servers#Server_config_example]in the server config example?
But what's with che 1024 characters limit that Sago was talking about?

PS: Do you want to add something to the descriptions of the variants of the "set" command DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Command_console#Set_variables]here? For example, I don't know what effects has a variable set as "userinfo" (setu)...

PS2: I added info about g_catchup here (using and modifying previous posts from Sago). Is that okay? A question: does its effects always start from the sixth frag of difference, undependedntly from the value of the cvar -except for 0, obviously-?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 11:29:35 am by Gig » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2010, 11:33:25 am »

But what's with che 1024 characters limit that Sago was talking about?

It's the MAX_INFO_STRING upper limit :

Code:
...
// code/qcommon/q_shared.h
...
#define MAX_INFO_STRING 1024      <--
#define MAX_INFO_KEY   1024
#define MAX_INFO_VALUE 1024

#define BIG_INFO_STRING 8192  // used for system info key only
...

There was also a related exploit ( It seems me to remember that OA 081 version is still vulnerable , but I am not sure )  which in certain cases permitted banned players to join the server by using a longer clientinfo string that overwrites the bytes of the clients IP and bypasses the ban filter.

This exploit was completely fixed in a recent revision of ioquake3 and in OA085.
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Gig
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2010, 04:33:42 am »

I mean... if I use many "sets" to allow clients to know if all the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Special_game_options]Special game options are enabled or not in my server (just think how many characters could be taken by the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Elimination#CVARs]Elimination Cvars if I want to publish them, or by a long "message of the day")[/size].... what happens after the 1024 characters? How does it choose what cvars send and what not? How can I allow players to read all the info I want?
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« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2010, 12:31:04 pm »

.... what happens after the 1024 characters? How does it choose what cvars send and what not? How can I allow players to read all the info I want?

IDK ... probably the same thing in the case of the (old & unpatched) client : some infos will be overwritten ... I'm sure the MAX_INFO_STRING array of the client is checked at runtime by the server (in this case the client is disconnected with an error message ) , but I did not find any check in the server code for the server MAX_INFO_STRING array.
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Cacatoes
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« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2011, 06:10:33 pm »

Some little news since there were recent requests about changing map pool.

I did something, which probably isn't the best thing of the world, and which probably won't satisfy some people... BUT, I did something, and tried, so I'll try to describe:

There has been very few variation over the last months (should I say years ?) ROFL Allrockets & Instagib have been running. The map pool was "kinda efficient", and except oa_bases7 which was voted out, most players seemed satisfied with the rotation.
But it's been so long, and these servers are amongst the few ones players can experience since other are hardly populated.
So, I've added a few maps in the pool, the choice is limited, and I'm aware they're not necessarily fitting very well the game mode. I reached the point I feel we could dare to play about anything, like "let's give the opportunity for people who installed OA 6 months ago the opportunity to see something else than the 3 same maps from the game". Of course you'll tell me it really sucks, you'll quickly come to call votes to pull them out, and I'll probably have to change them soon and from time to time, that's normal, but hopefully you'll appreciate a bit the fact to see something else...
I make a big story from nothing, so here rather are the current map pools:

Allrockets:
Code:
set d1 "g_gametype 4; map oa_ctf4ish; set nextmap vstr d2"
set d2 "g_gametype 4; map ps37ctf; g_gravity 790 ; set nextmap vstr d3"
set d3 "g_gametype 4; map oasago2; set nextmap vstr d4"
set d4 "g_gametype 4; map ps9ctf; set nextmap vstr d5"

set d5 "g_gametype 4; map oa_ctf4ish; set nextmap vstr d6"
set d6 "g_gametype 4; map ps37ctf; g_gravity 790 ; set nextmap vstr d7"
set d7 "g_gametype 4; map oasago2; set nextmap vstr d8"
set d8 "g_gametype 4; map ctf_inyard; set nextmap vstr d9"

set d9 "g_gametype 4; map oa_ctf4ish; set nextmap vstr d10"
set d10 "g_gametype 4; map ps37ctf; g_gravity 790 ; set nextmap vstr d11"
set d11 "g_gametype 4; map oasago2; set nextmap vstr d12"
set d12 "g_gametype 4; map pul1ctf; set nextmap vstr d1"

ps9, ctf_inyard, pul1ctf were added to allrockets, while being played not as often as the rest

Instagib:
Code:
set d1 "map ps9ctf; set nextmap vstr d2"
set d2 "map ctf_inyard; set nextmap vstr d3"
set d3 "map ps37ctf; set g_gravity 790; set nextmap vstr d4"
set d4 "map oasago2; set nextmap vstr d5"
set d5 "map pul1ctf; set nextmap vstr d6"

set d6 "map ps9ctf; set nextmap vstr d7"
set d7 "map czest3ctf; set nextmap vstr d8"
set d8 "map ps37ctf; set g_gravity 790; set nextmap vstr d9"
set d9 "map oasago2; set nextmap vstr d10"
set d10 "map pul1ctf; set nextmap vstr d1"

bases7 was removed, czest3ctf (!) and ctf_inyard took its place on Instagib.

Yeah, the most dary one was probably to take out czest3ctf from the attic, but it's a map we found in rotation in my early days of OA, and I enjoyed (not particularly, but I enjoyed) playing it. Yeah Allrockets has been spared from unusual maps, but I keep a surprise for it for when you'll shout about removing one  (not a big surprise, it's still about map digging).

Next step: change again the map pool
Further next step: teach players they have some buttons assigned to change weapons and eventually give them a reason to use it. Because yeah, I'm more of an allweapon player myself, though maybe I won't do that and rather join some "normal" CTF servers instead, part of my fault for not taking the time to seek some.

Map pools will take effects after the next restart, which will be made when I feel it (probably soon when servers are empty or almost).
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2011, 01:53:56 pm »

Thanks. Any news on the framerate-fixed physics settings?
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2011, 02:22:20 pm »

It will stay that way, but if we need to change gravity on one particular map, then I could do it.
However I played ps9ctf and even though it may be a bit hard to make that jump as you said, it's far from impossible even without taking speed prior, so I probably won't change gravity unless there is something else.
Edit: okay, we probably weren't talking about the same jump, from main platform (and not from its side, but from the front) directly to the flag, I didn't do it. I'll try to test a bit more.
Edit2: Okay, did it, ... that's what I call an exploit :p am still undecided, if it's possible with training, I consider it's okay to keep it that way even if its use becomes "rare".

If the deal is about "standard OA physics really miss the fun on every map", then it can be discussed, but I don't know if something can be done, since I don't know the logic behind how sago implemented it.
I was thinking too there could be some alternative physics model, like CPM, which would try to bring this (more fun, jump higher, more air control).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 02:54:08 pm by Cacatoes » Logged

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Peter Silie
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« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2011, 03:22:18 pm »

if i am not that wrong, there was a topic about "fps 135/333" physics, which can be set from server side (unfortunately i am not that interested in server settings...).
this even wouldn´t collide with the "callvote map ps37ctf" which breaks your gravity from rotation.
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