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Author Topic: New CTF space map  (Read 27068 times)
Cacatoes
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2010, 08:38:43 am »

Ehe, you may not say "definitive" or it's dangerous to say "final" when it comes to opensource softwares, they generally evolve with time even if it is just a little fix here or there.

There is a little english mistake in your readme: Game: Openarena 0.8.1 and higher (no "t").

Now, about your .zip file, if your intent is to release your work under GPL license, you have to provide the source of your map: the .map file Smiley
I checked inside the .pk3 file but it isn't in it.

The main point of releasing a work under GPL is: to provide anyone the possibility to use, modify, and distribute your work. And we can't do that if you don't give the .map file Wink

License stories can bring complex questions. I wish you to understand at least the basics, because it is not fun for someone to submit work under a license which is obscure to him/her. Of course, this affects every contributor, not only you.

Edit: That paragraph on the wiki presents the things well.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 08:54:27 am by Cacatoes » Logged

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pulchr
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2010, 08:55:37 am »

looks fun! will try it as soon as i can Smiley
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Thor001
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2010, 09:21:15 am »

LOL  Embarrassed... right... map inside here  Grin
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Gig
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2010, 02:56:09 pm »

Man, the map is very nice! Compliments!  Smiley
PS: Wow, how many location names! Even too many/detailed!  Grin

Just some suggestions:

-Could you put in one or two more Domination points (what about one on the bridge, or on the lateral ways?), and maybe with better names?
-The readme_thor file has no extension (.txt missing)
-Thor, are you sure you don't want to use a name like "thor_ctf1, thor_1, thor_valhalla" for the map?
-The loading screen does not show the complete name (Thor's Valhalla)... I suppose you forgot to write it somewhere...
-Another thing: if you want to try to have a map included with the next official release of OpenArena (after debugging it and after being sure that it is completely under GPLv2, including models, textures and shaders, and all the sources are available), you have to ask it to be added to the "SVN", using the "SVN commits" thread. And you have to ask it by yourself: Fromhell (the project leader) would probably reject requests that do not come from the author of the map.

Question to everybody. Remember: this is a question, not a statement. Is it standard to place .map, license and readme inside the pk3... or usually they are inside the external .zip? Having the source in the pk3 allows to fully respect the license, even when someone will autodownload the map... but enlarges the stuff to autodownload...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 05:16:56 pm by Gig » Logged

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Cacatoes
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2010, 03:18:58 pm »

Question to everybody. Remember: this is a question, not a statement. Is it standard to place .map, license and readme inside the pk3... or usually they are inside the external .zip? Having the source in the pk3 allows to fully respect the license, even when someone will autodownload the map... but enlarges the stuff to autodownload...
Your statement is untrue and incorrect.
The .map file could be stored outside the pk3 in order to spare a bit of space. PK3s in OA are mainly good for easy testing because then they are integrated into other main PK3s if the map is commited. If the mapper wants to distribute it in other ways, then s/he has to think about what and how to put inside according to what s/he prefers. Most important is you provide everything, the few persons who play-test maps on this forum shouldn't bother about downloading a few extra MBs. And a good practice also is to allow versionning.
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sago007
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« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2010, 03:30:32 pm »

Your statement is untrue and incorrect.
It was a question, not a statement.

----

Some sort of answer to the question:

ReadMe and license are normally in the pk3 file. They are small and the license must follow the work.
Instead of including the map file one can include a link to the map file/contact information in the ReadMe.

I usually include the map file in the pk3-file... I have seen a little to often that the source has gone missing. I also prefer not to let people that download the map not have to unpack it first.
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Thor001
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« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2010, 04:41:17 pm »

Thank Gig Smiley

I have a bad new and a normal new. The bad new is that i found a bug (1 or 2 wrong spawn point... red spawn in blue base and vice versa), the normal new is that today i have tested on line the map and i could jump the wall with small healths (excessive server on ita.(ctf)).

I think that:
1) i will correct the bug
2) i set the name map on loading
3) i will put other 3 domination points
4) i will set readme like txt file also if useless... can open file without extension with notepad on windows or normally under linux
5) for the name map i am thinking about oa_thor but i set this name only to last release, for now it call simply thor Smiley
6) i will be happy if my map will be included with the next official release of OpenArena. I will ask Smiley But before i would be sure that the map has not bugs.

thank for the suggestions Gig Smiley

Only a thing:
(after debugging it and after being sure that it is completely under GPLv2, including models, textures and shaders, and all the sources are available)
How do for being sure that it is completely under GPLv2?
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pulchr
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« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2010, 05:08:49 pm »

i played a little with some bots and i think this can be a pretty fun map to play. i saw some things that i think could be improved on and i took some screenshots. friday or saturday i should get some time to show what i mean.
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Gig
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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2010, 05:13:22 pm »

Well, a mapper may have put in a model, a texture, a shader that did not come from the OpenArena SVN, or that he did not create completely by himself. It is possible to do it, but they have to have been released under GPLv2 (or Public Domain) by their original author (and for GPL, it is needed to mention the author, too, right?).

If you place a new model (that did not come with OpenArena) in a map, you have to include the md3 file. If you place a new texture in a map, you should include, other than the .tga (or .jpg or .png) also the .psd (or the file from gimp or other image software) file, if you used a multi-layer image format when creating it. And mention their authors.

Somebody correct me if I told something wrong.
PS: I wrote something about the license of the textures here: please correct it if needed.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 05:37:40 pm by Gig » Logged

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pulchr
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2010, 02:15:37 pm »

here are some screenshots of strange stuff and things that i think could be changed:


this was shot on the upper bridge near one of the railguns (can't remember if it was red or blue).
looks like a crack in the floor.


when i fired the railgun in the red base facing this wall there was no trail visible - don't know why though.


i think that the weapons markers should be half the height.
it obscured the weapon and i think it would be clear enough anyway.


how about markers for megahealth and armours too?


teleporter animation on the back that couldn't be entered.
maybe just put a standard wall texture there.


i think that the two launchpads are too close to each other.
moving them farther away would make it easier to use them.
enlarging the platform wouldn't be that bad either imo.

keep up the good work Smiley
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Thor001
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2010, 06:04:32 pm »

Thank for suggestions pulchr Smiley
then today i have fixed and changed something:

- fixed wrong spawn (red spawn in blue base)
- now there are smaller location names
- add 4 target_locations
- add 3 Domination_point. Now there are 5 Domination_point
- add name map on loading
- send armor +50 from inside bases to behind bases
- send rocket in front the teleporters inside the columns over the main bridge
- add the nail gun to old rocket place

now i am working to a new structure on upper bridge because i don't want all linear bridges, so when i finish there i begin to work also on lateral bridges, i will add some weapons (grenade launcher i think) in the "neutral base" over the upper bridge

for your suggestions pulchr i think that:

- i will try to fix the crack in the floor on the upper bridge
- i will try to understand why there isn't visible rail trail, i hope that is only your trouble
- i will set the weapons markers to half the height
- i will delete megahealth so i will make markers only for armor and maybe for other new items
- i will obscure the back teleporter animation
- i don't fix launchpad because a player can take the launchpad only from bases direction, in case i have to set bigger dimensions for columns pedestal removing space to main bridge, i don't want this... sorry!

@ Gig, i am using only original oa stuff, so the question now is only: have i to change the license in copying file? If yes, where can i find the new text?

thx Smiley
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Gig
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2010, 04:17:23 am »

If you want it to be an official OA map, you have to change the license: in the readme, you generically talked about "GPL", and your "COPYING" file is about GPLv3.

OpenArena is under GPLv2, not GPLv3 (see DeveloperFAQ).

I think you can find a copy of GPLv2 license in the COPYING file inside your OA installation folder...

I suppose it is possible to release things under double license (for example, Wikipedia uses CC-BY-SA + GFDL licenses), but the one needed for OpenArena is GPLv2 (plus Public Domain stuff is ok, too).... more licenses are just irrelevant for us (maybe they cold be useful to someone else, in other projects)....
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 04:31:35 am by Gig » Logged

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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2010, 06:25:58 am »

Which editor are you using? GTKRadiant, NetRadiant...?
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Thor001
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« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2010, 04:25:09 pm »

I'm using GTKRadiant.
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Thor001
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 06:23:10 pm »

New release ready for download. Like usual if you find a bug write on board so i can fix them Wink
In this new realse i did much change, fix some bugs and i did new layout for upper bridge and new neutral bases:

Fixed bugs
Fixed a wrong spawn (there was a red spawn in blue base)
Fixed the crack on floor near blu rail
Fixed a bug on base's walls, not all weapons signs walls with shoot, now is all right

Changes
Locations names become shorten
Send the +50 armors from inside bases to behind bases
Send rocketgun and ammo in front the coloumn on main bridge (teleporter zone)
Fixed the height weapons markers to alf height
Replaced red and blue lightin front the rail with white lights
Changed the entry base graphics
Set the jumpads compatibly the new map layout (changed path and orientation)
Add txt extension to files readme_thor e copying
Changed license from GPL to GPLv2

Additions and eliminations
Eliminate back teleport animation on the bridge
Add 28 target_location e correct the colours
Add 3 Domination_points. Now there are 5 total Domination_points
Add name map on loading
Add a nail gun near left bridge (to rocket old place)
Add lights for new upper bridge layout ed eliminate 6 lights from lateral bridges
Add 2 grenade launcher on upper bridge
Eliminate the megahealth and  replace with quad damage
add a regeneration to center mappa on main bridge (to quad old place)
Add markers for the armor

Layout
Add new 3 neutral bases and changed the upper bridge layout

NB: The target's new upper bridge layout and all the new structures is essentially to slow down the flag run, make the flag path not all linear and i hope to make more interesting map Smiley

The new release is available here.
Alternative link

have fun
PS: sorry for my bad english Sad
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 07:24:15 pm by Thor001 » Logged
sago007
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2010, 11:43:05 am »

I believe this map to be very promising. A mixture between open and closed and a lot of one way jumps. Also some great possibilities with a small RJ.

A few comments on how to make it even better:
The target_locations is often placed in void (inside a structural brush), try to make them completly free from walls. I keep getting entity leak while compiling. Also consider if it necessary to have that many.
domination_points have no message-key (they are used to identify the points by name)
The lowest trigger kills should touch the floor.
Use playerclip in the top of the map to make the upper areas unreachable (you cannot get on top of the middle box anyway)
Some of the round corners should be patches. (Not that important in this case though although I think I saw some flickering in the dark passages)

Leaking entities:


Domination point names:
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pulchr
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« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2010, 01:29:53 pm »

Also consider if it necessary to have that many.

i'm not sure where i read it but i think that having too many locations add to the traffic the server has to deal with.
and when there's too many locations the player have trouble remembering them all (even if the names describe the locations).
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Gig
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« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2010, 03:57:41 pm »

Found a polygon (or texture) misalignment. Enter the tunnel next to the blue flag, follow it for some meters... just before exiting, you can find the misaligment.
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Thor001
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2010, 04:45:30 pm »

Thank for all suggestions and good criticts Smiley
In this case i think that the job will not be so hard like the last time Smiley
I will correct all mistake and i will post the new link Smiley
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Thor001
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2010, 09:33:03 am »

Quote
The lowest trigger kills should touch the floor.
How do? There is a nodrop brush there.
Quote
and when there's too many locations the player have trouble remembering them all (even if the names describe the locations).
The name locations describe exactly the locations, the player have not to remember where is a location they have only to read; for example: if you read “Blue Right Tunnel” (or another place) you understand immediactly where is the place because the location_name describe itself. I think that similar trouble are presents in not symmetric maps with much rooms.
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sago007
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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2010, 09:52:54 am »

Quote
The lowest trigger kills should touch the floor.
How do? There is a nodrop brush there.
Trigger and nodrop may overlap. It is just in case someone gets past the damage trigger one way or another.
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Thor001
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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2010, 03:38:32 pm »

All fixed... i hope Smiley
changed:
- Eliminate near  40 target_location and the remained now are out from walls
- Add the names to domination_points
- Now  the lowest trigger kills touch the floor
- Red base's ceiling now is alligned (again :/ )
- Marker in upper base has now star form
- Placed invisible walls all around the upper base for prevent camping on moulding
- Fixed the polygon misalignment on blue tunnel round corner (bit changed form)

download
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Gig
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« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2010, 05:45:54 am »

Sorry annoying you with location names again... but it seems that when you are on the lateral bridges, they always say "red"... and when you are on the small rooms at the middle of those bridges, if you get over the "pedestal" where you can find the armor, the team overlay says "unknown".
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Thor001
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2010, 08:15:40 am »

Really? I have to check this then Sad LOL i am hoping that all bugs are fixed Sad
In any case the devellop is going on. Changed from actual release:

- Rebuilded the base's portals (now are biggers)
- Add a new round wall in base's left tunnels
- Now the upper bridge is partially wider (upper base side)
- Introduced invisible walls for don't stop the player's run near edges

new release comes when i fix the pedestal location name bug
Thank to all for testing Smiley
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Thor001
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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2010, 08:25:49 am »

An idea to distinguish the laterals bridges?
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