Tutorial map

[Graion Dilach]

i saw you used some of evil lairs textures from texturepack which arent in OA 0.85 nor the SVN. Same case for am_lavactf2, which has a lot of e8's textures. Are those legit to use ? I know Lair licenced just a few of his textures under GPL, but you cannot find any information about it on his homepage. Is there any complete list of all his GPLed textures ?

IIRC, those evillair textures (both the old ones in stock OA and Neon's additional ones) are copied from Nexuiz's SVN, back from the time, when Nexuiz was the GPL licensed product.

So I think Nexuiz's (Xonotic?) SVN is what you've searching for.

[Neon_Knight]

These are the same textures which came with Nexuiz. Fromhell (who was involved with Nexuiz) said many times that evillair himself granted the GPL permission to Nexuiz (or something like that) when the project became GPLed.

The point is... well... aside from the awesome textures from acc there're next to no industrial textures for industrial maps. (The base* sets are incomplete)

Also, my texturing skills just suck more than my mapping ones. -.-

[**HD]

- The Jumppad looks undersized (change it to 128x128 ?) and could be implemented into the floor.

- You can open every door with every weapon, apart from the grenade launcher room. Any chance of making the other doors like the grenade launcher door ?

- grenade launcher room: Have a look at moixis screenshot, its better if you cant reach the other part of the wall. At the moment there is no need to shoot above the glas wall, just walk around it. The white target spot isnt good visible due to the glas texture (at least here with my settings). Perhabs replacing it with an red spot ?

I know its just a beta map to to get the overall layout ready, but right now the map contains a lot of flat boring walls with only a few textures on it. Since the tutorial map is the map the player is seeing at the first time playing, it should look quite nice, otherwise he could quit immediately. Same case for the "fight room", which is just a cube with some ramps in it. Why not removing those ramps and put some jumpers and stairs into it ? The jumper is part of the first part of the map, but not in the fight room.

About evillairs textures: I downloaded the last nexuiz version 2.5 and it contains the complete sets 6 and 8. Since nexuiz is (was) complety GPL including the content, i can use these textures as well ? I'm working on a re-texturization of pul1ctf and using them until now as dummy textures, which i will replace later by selfmade GPLed textures. But there is no need for it, since they are already gpl ?

Edit:  If you die in the first part of the map, you will spawn in the fight room. Any chance of changing this ?

[Graion Dilach]

Looks like the answer is yes about the evillair textures, **HD.

Nexuiz 2.5.2 was released in 2009 and the new, closed-source development started in the first half of 2010. So they are indeed GPLed.

[pulchr]

I'm working on a re-texturization of pul1ctf and using them until now as dummy textures, which i will replace later by selfmade GPLed textures.

it will be interesting to see the result

but just so you know - i've promised to replaced the textures myself and i'll do it sooner or later. but as i'm working on pul4ctf and pul1ffa it will probably not be ready in time for the next oa release anyway...

[Neon_Knight]

Well... I'll be ditching the tutorial map, but at the same time, it's pretty much obvious that OA needs a newbie tutorial. It's true, as well, that not everyone wants to play online against everyone, but just pass the time. So, my idea is to make something like this, (the tutorials may need further unlocking, but the arenas should be unlocked from the beginning)
oa_tutorial01
Intro: "Welcome to OpenArena. This is the first Tutorial course. Choose what you want to do."

- Basic tutorial (Basic movement - unlocked from the beginning)
  * Jump
  * Crouch
  * Environment interaction (jumppads, teleporters)
- Basic tutorial (Weapons 1 - needs Basic movement to unlock)
  "In order to access to this tutorial, you must first complete the movement tutorial"
  * Gauntlet
  * Machinegun
  * Shotgun
  * Lightning Gun
  * Railgun
- Basic tutorial (Items 1 - needs Basic movement to unlock)
  "In order to access to this tutorial, you must first complete the movement tutorial"
  * S-Health
  * M-Health
  * L-Health
  * S-Armor
  * Y-Armor
  * R-Armor
- Go to the Arena (Unlocked from the beginning)

Arena:
  * Shotgun
  * Lightning Gun
  * Railgun
  * S-Health
  * M-Health
  * L-Health
  * S-Armor
  * Y-Armor
  * R-Armor

Fraglimit: 5
Timelimit: 10
oa_tutorial02
"This is the second Tutorial course. Choose what you want to do."
- Basic tutorial (Weapons 2 - unlocked from the beginning)
  * Grenade Launcher
  * Rocket Launcher
  * Plasma Gun
  * BFG
- Basic tutorial (Powerups - unlocked from the beginning)
  * Quad Damage
  * Battle Suit
  * Invisibility
  * Haste
  * Regeneration
  * Flight
- Advanced tutorial (Weapon moves and advanced jumps - needs Weapons 2 and Powerups to be unlocked)
  "In order to access to this tutorial, you must first complete the other two tutorials"
  * Strafejumping
  * Rocket jump
  * Plasma climbing
- Go to the Arena (Unlocked from the beginning)

Arena:
  * Grenade Launcher
  * Rocket Launcher
  * Plasma Gun
  * BFG
  * Quad Damage
  * Battle Suit
  * Invisibility
  * Haste
  * Regeneration
  * Flight

Fraglimit: 5
Timelimit: 10
oa_tutorial03
"This is the third Tutorial course. Choose what you want to do."
- Advanced tutorial entry 1 (Jumps - unlocked the first part from the beginning)
  * Some advanced jump(s)
  "In order to progress, you must complete the other two tutorials"
  Entry 2 (Requires Weapons 3 and Items 3 to unlock)
  * Some jump which requires an item to be completed.
- Basic tutorial (Weapons 3 - unlocked from the beginning)
  * Nailgun
  * Chaingun
  * Prox Launcher
- Basic tutorial (Items 3)
  * Medkit
  * Teleporter
  * Kamikaze
  * Invulnerability
  * Runes
- Go to the Arena (Unlocked from the beginning)

Arena:
  * Nailgun
  * Chaingun
  * Prox Launcher
  * Medkit
  * Teleporter
  * Kamikaze
  * Invulnerability

Fraglimit: 5
Timelimit: 10
oa_tutorial04
"Now that you know how to move and shoot in the Arena, you must complete a final test. Shoot the three bullseyes to free your opponent, and win the match."

- Here the player must shoot three triggers to release the enemy, much in the same vein of Q3R's final boss battle, where you must free him in order to fight against him. I'll be leaving this.

(Map should feature few weapons and items)

Fraglimit: 10
Timelimit: 10
I'll manifest my idea in map forms, since I'm not good writing in english nor getting an idea well... (and since a lot of people will take me always literally, even when I don't want to be literal... -.-)

[VortexHU]

- Advanced tutorial (Weapon moves and advanced jumps - needs Weapons 2 and Powerups to be unlocked)
  "In order to access to this tutorial, you must first complete the other two tutorials"
  * Strafejumping
  * Rocket jump
  * Plasma climbing

circle jump and sj tut should use something like that horizontal green and red bar in defrag. some sort of immediate feedback mechanism is probly much better training than trial and error. but i rly shouldn't suggest making a custom mod or w/e would be needed for that to happen...

The point is... well... aside from the awesome textures from acc there're next to no industrial textures for industrial maps. (The base* sets are incomplete)

what would u consider a minimal but useful set of textures? i'm trying to figure out texturing, so curious.

[Neon_Knight]

- Advanced tutorial (Weapon moves and advanced jumps - needs Weapons 2 and Powerups to be unlocked)
  "In order to access to this tutorial, you must first complete the other two tutorials"
  * Strafejumping
  * Rocket jump
  * Plasma climbing

circle jump and sj tut should use something like that horizontal green and red bar in defrag. some sort of immediate feedback mechanism is probly much better training than trial and error. but i rly shouldn't suggest making a custom mod or w/e would be needed for that to happen...

Then I should get rid of that part?

The point is... well... aside from the awesome textures from acc there're next to no industrial textures for industrial maps. (The base* sets are incomplete)

what would u consider a minimal but useful set of textures? i'm trying to figure out texturing, so curious.

Well... I'm trying to go for the middle ground nowadays: flat walls are crap, but overtexturing and overdetailing are bad as well.

I've started checking out the maps oa_dm3 and oa_dm5 in order to figure out how to texturize.

[VortexHU]

circle jump and sj tut should use something like that horizontal green and red bar in defrag. some sort of immediate feedback mechanism is probly much better training than trial and error. but i rly shouldn't suggest making a custom mod or w/e would be needed for that to happen...

Then I should get rid of that part?

no, we definitely need those b/c ppl pretty much need to learn them anyway, otherwise they can't do anything w/experienced players. i was just saying that we should use more advanced tools to teach it if we ever have the resources to do so.

Well... I'm trying to go for the middle ground nowadays: flat walls are crap, but overtexturing and overdetailing are bad as well.

I've started checking out the maps oa_dm3 and oa_dm5 in order to figure out how to texturize.

as far as what texs r needed: some number of walls, trims, floors, ceilings, lights, portals, decals, other?

[Neon_Knight]

circle jump and sj tut should use something like that horizontal green and red bar in defrag. some sort of immediate feedback mechanism is probly much better training than trial and error. but i rly shouldn't suggest making a custom mod or w/e would be needed for that to happen...

Then I should get rid of that part?

no, we definitely need those b/c ppl pretty much need to learn them anyway, otherwise they can't do anything w/experienced players. i was just saying that we should use more advanced tools to teach it if we ever have the resources to do so.

Well, as I've said before, not everyone who plays OA wants to play online as well, and the tutorials should be optional in the maps, not something obligatory.

And AFAIK we don't have these. People suggested in a past thread demos and videos being included with the game, but I can't really see how that can be more useful than interactivity.

Well... I'm trying to go for the middle ground nowadays: flat walls are crap, but overtexturing and overdetailing are bad as well.

I've started checking out the maps oa_dm3 and oa_dm5 in order to figure out how to texturize.

as far as what texs r needed: some number of walls, trims, floors, ceilings, lights, portals, decals, other?

These are my choices, so far:

For industrial maps, the acc_dm3 and evil8_* packs (which you can find in Nexuiz) are my most used packs. (The first versions of am_lavaarena were purely done with the acc_dm3 pack) There are some on the base_* packs which can be useful, as well.

For temple-like maps, I mainly use acc_dm5. (Example: am_mckinleyish2) Though I've found the egyptsoc_* pack (also included with Nexuiz, and which I've used for oa_reptctf3) to be great as well.

For castle maps, mainly e7, and then the gothic_* pack.

I tend to go for walls with one or two textures for long trims (some from evil8_trims or acc_dm3/rivets) others for intersections, (from evil8) some others for the walls (acc_dm3/concrete is my favourite for floors and walls, though there are others, such as acc_dm3/concrttrim or acc_dm3/wallbot) but it really depends on what you want to achieve.

[VortexHU]

And AFAIK we don't have these. People suggested in a past thread demos and videos being included with the game, but I can't really see how that can be more useful than interactivity.

i meant something interactive, in the hud (like a cgaz) or displaying a spline that the player should follow, floating keypress billboards, or smth like that.

huds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIFO4wB3bwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOffE5_k2f0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEsSJd1UIDU

These are my choices, so far:
[tex prefs]

thx, i'll keep those in mind.

[sago007]

i meant something interactive, in the hud (like a cgaz) or displaying a spline that the player should follow, floating keypress billboards, or smth like that.

What about a ghost? A semi transparent player that just keeps doing the trick over and over again. One can try to mimic its actions.

[VortexHU]

What about a ghost? A semi transparent player that just keeps doing the trick over and over again. One can try to mimic its actions.

would be good too, maybe that's sufficient feedback for rapid learning? we could test this statistically w/new players eventually (better than musing ).

[Neon_Knight]

It seems like I'm going to need some help... -.-

[Gig]

Any news? Plans to place the map in OA 0.8.8?


PS: a model for invulnerability powerup would be very appreciated, showing a missing powerup model in the first map the players encounter isn't a big presentation...

[Neon_Knight]

In the attic, by now.

[Gig]

Do you mean "at the moment it's in a looong pause and I don't know if and when will continue it"?

[Neon_Knight]

Exactly.

So far, I planned to do three Tutorial levels for the SP:
- Basic, for those uninitiated in FPS or those which come from other kind of FPS. Such as learning what does every weapon and item, environment stuff such as jumppads and world dangers, and really basic move as in jumping and ducking.
- Medium, with stuff between Basic and Advanced.
- Advanced, including weapon jumps and strafe/circle jumps.

The three tutorials would be unlocked from the start in the SP.

But I won't reach the deadline in time with them. Perhaps for OA3 I might.

I don't want OA to be an elite-only game.

[Neon_Knight]

Page on the wiki:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Map_Ideas/Tutorial_Map

[PsYthe]

I'm not going to lie, but I didn't read this thread. but I think a tutorial map for this game is a little pointless. People know how to play FPS's, and most people are familiar with Quake to begin with.
Not to be a prick, though.

However, the idea is still interesting and I thought I'd add this thought: Ever play any of the Metroid games? For example, when you obtain a new item or ability in Metroid, you're usually forced to make use of it immediately after obtaining it. So think like, if you're trying to show the usefulness of the Mega Health or Mega Armor, make it so they have to grab it in order to survive running through acid to the next part of the level. Kind of systematic, y'know?

[WingedPanther]

An example of the advantage of a Tutorial map: I was playing with a buddy on Wednesday on a map that has invulnerability.  Because of the combination of the graphic on 0.8.5, and no tutorial, he didn't realize what it was.  I'd pick it up, apply it at the top of a jump pad, and clear out the room while he wasted ammo on me.  Later, I showed him what I'd done.  He was irked, but in a good way.

[Neon_Knight]

I'm not going to lie, but I didn't read this thread. but I think a tutorial map for this game is a little pointless. People know how to play FPS's, and most people are familiar with Quake to begin with.
Not to be a prick, though.

Hmmm... don't assume that everyone else knows Quake or the FPS genre. As Sago pointed out above, there's always the chance that someone have never played an FPS before, but only started the game because it was on an office computer, or one of his friend's PC, and never touched a game before. And Quake nowadays isn't that popular outside of QL. (There're people out there who play FPS but doesn't know what Quake is, seriously)

[Neon_Knight]

Time to put my hands on the redesign.

Meanwhile, I'll hear this for some inspiration...

[PsYthe]

Neon, good to see you're still active.

I haven't kept up with the community much at all for a good while now, but I might soon find myself playing around with NetRadiant and likely making another map or two for funsies.

I'm pretty much saying this because I feel as if we should form an alliance. Two mappers. ONE GOAL. THE BEST. MAP. EVA!

(Coming to an openarena release near you, 2013)

[Neon_Knight]

Yay!
If you're interested, check this topic.