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Author Topic: Fan (of Death) remade for DM and domination  (Read 19153 times)
Neon_Knight
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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2011, 02:01:24 PM »

I haven't checked this one. Downloading.
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PigCell
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2011, 11:13:50 AM »

Release (see attachments)

I finally worked through all these technical hiccups. Here's a quick changelog:

- fan model now centred and clipped precisely, it also has a slightly touched-up texture now
- architecture now slightly more believable
- custom weapon pick-up platforms and jumpad shader (nicked image from default textures, though)
- slightly updated item layout (MH now on fan except in Domination mode)
- hacked botfile, they can now find the room in Domination mode and are also slightly more challenging on average

Following the licence of the original map, I included the .map file as well. So if anyone wants to improve on it, knock yourself out - it's far from perfect.

(edit: it would help if I actually attach the files ^^;)
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Neon_Knight
In the year 3000
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2011, 11:27:37 AM »

Well, took a quick look at the last version, I guess it's 2c.

- Below the fan, the character's corpse may get stuck in one of those supports. Since OA hasn't ragdolls, and it's a death pit after all, why not covering the whole area with a trigger_hurt set to 999?
- There's an issue in the ladders, specifically, in the Armor shard part, with the following message:
"WARNING: unhandled AL error: Invalid value"

EDIT: Tried the latest version. It has the same errors as above. Sad

BTW, how did you take that screenshot? Using the /levelshot command?
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chaoticsoldier
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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2011, 06:38:52 PM »

I noticed that the bots often get stuck on top of the elevators.
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PigCell
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2011, 05:12:19 PM »

*threadnecro* Since I was asked to include the map for the next version, I would like to test several bugfixes first. Please tell me if you run into any issues. Here are the most recent changes:

- workaround for the "WARNING: unhandled AL error: Invalid value" (check the stairway to see if it's still there for anyone)
- botfile reverted to unhacked version, bots shouldn't get stuck at the lifts anymore (the point of the hack was that they'd be able to play in Domination, so it's either that or the lift bug)
- new shader for the weapon spawns (the metal one I made looked okay, but felt wrong as it looked as if you should spin while standing on the spawn)
-in Domination, the YA in the room is now not reachable from below anymore, you actually have to jump on top like intended

I couldn't reproduce the corpse issue on the fan. I checked and there's bot a trigger_hurt with ludicrous damage and a nodrop brush to keep objects from lying on the ground. Maybe lower the damage to 999?

The LG weapon spawn is a bit darker than expected, I'll fix it in the final version.

Edit: I'm an idiot, I forgot to include the textures, fixed now
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2011, 06:09:17 PM »

Going to test right now.
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"Detailed" is nice, but if it gets in the way of clarity, it ceases being a nice addition and becomes a problem. - TVT
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2011, 06:33:21 PM »

Quick test in DM with 0.8.1 + patch 0.8.5 + patch 0.8.8. So far, that error doesn't happen anymore.

About DOM, well... I have one suggestion. The reason why the bots won't touch the point over the fan is that the fan is considered by BSPC as a death area for bots. The fact that the only way to get out of there is by weaponjumping with Rocket just makes things worse.

I suggest to move that point to this area, replacing the MH, and the MH should be moved to the fan. It's in the middle ground, so the middle point should be lowered if the objective is to keep a point per floor.

About the fan and MH in non-DOM games, I think that's a not-rewarding position for such an item. What about switching the Quad with it?
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"Detailed" is nice, but if it gets in the way of clarity, it ceases being a nice addition and becomes a problem. - TVT
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PigCell
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2011, 09:21:11 AM »

Let's talk a bit about item balance. I realise that slapping DOM on a small map like this necessitates some tweaks. Here are my reasons for the current layout:

The fan DOM point is there to keep one team from completely locking down the map with rail from the top level. People often spawn at the bottom and now have the choice to suicide into the fan whilst grabbing the point. The leading players with their armours, weapons etc would have to swoop down, expose themselves, and rocketjump back off the fan or lose map control. In a way it balances things a bit by making it too expensive for the leading team to try and control all three DOM points. I guess an argument could be made to move it somewhere else at the bottom, but where? (without too much structural change to the map)

MH on fan in Deathmatch: you lose part of it by paying for the rocketjump, but if you already have a bit of armour it's not so bad. It could be replaced with a RA, however that spawns even more frequently. Plus if I still add a MH elsewhere the item loadout might get a bit heavy. Putting the Quad on the fan would be quite the troll move of me. Okay, so you pick up the Quad, now what?

About the bots: most of my design decisions are based off 4 player Deathmatch and 2v2 DOM thinking about human play. It's unfortunate the bots don't navigate the map as well. They do however end up on the fan from time to time, both here and in the original version. In fact, the bot_donotenter brush starts only just below the rotating platform. The problem is, the bots don't know how to get back off the fan and don't suicide on their own. I could try and make them rocketjump (likely to their doom), that way the problem would solve itself at least some of the time. Also it'd be funny.

Pathing problems occur in the DOM middle room. It doesn't exist in Deathmatch and the engine cannot handle multiple .aas files. This basically causes the bots to not see the room at all. In the hacked version they thought it'd be always there and tried to walk into it from the lifts, thus getting stuck.

I'd really like to test the map in human play on some server to help me make better item layout decisions. I don't think there's that much time for that, though. I'm open to more suggestions, trying another RA variation of the map.

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Neon_Knight
In the year 3000
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Cakes 49
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Trickster God.


« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2011, 09:32:25 AM »

In that case, and with the date getting closer, wouldn't be better to drop DOM support by now? Or, at least, limit it by two points instead of three.
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"Detailed" is nice, but if it gets in the way of clarity, it ceases being a nice addition and becomes a problem. - TVT
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PigCell
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2011, 09:37:29 AM »

Re-release (hopefully the final one if bugfree) of the map.

Shaders and minor details have been reworked, should include GPL files as it's licensed as such, updated levelshot etc.

I decided for now to leave DOM support in, even if it's not that great with bots. It's more trouble yanking it back out than just to leave it. As is the map works fine in Deathmatch, where the bots do well. I do have an idea about changing the bottom DOM point position, but it would require major architectural changes. Maybe with some heavy playtesting future versions might include some changes.

As for the filename, I have no idea what the convention should be, oa_ prefix or not, etc. I guess the .bsp and .aas files can just be renamed as deemed appropriate.
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