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Author Topic: Recap improvements needed in the Wiki site - Where?  (Read 128067 times)
Gig
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« Reply #100 on: June 29, 2012, 03:08:40 PM »

Thank you all guys!

I did the little I could.

Continue developing, supporting, advertising, documenting... and playing OpenArena, guys!

Goodnight and good fight!
... and good life. Smiley


It's time to bed... tomorrow will be a loooong day...

See you in some weeks! Smiley
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2012, 04:23:59 PM »

Congrats! Best wishes for the future!

Hi guys! An IP created this page: "DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Need_music_while_playing%3F]Need music while playing?".... do you think I should simply delete it, or do you think it is possible to get something useful from it?

It seems Fromhell already took care of the decision and deleted it Wink
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Graion Dilach
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« Reply #102 on: July 01, 2012, 01:28:10 AM »

Best wishes, and a huge thumbsup on what you have done. With that personality I'm sure no troubles will come up at all.
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Kildall
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« Reply #103 on: July 01, 2012, 03:16:21 AM »

I think wiki needs more info about charachters and manual should tell some information about weapons.
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RMF
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« Reply #104 on: July 02, 2012, 05:29:29 PM »

Why about characters? Except the looks, they're all identical.
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Kildall
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« Reply #105 on: July 03, 2012, 10:53:07 AM »

They're identical, true. But I mean their backgrounds, good example is article about Major.
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GrosBedo
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« Reply #106 on: July 03, 2012, 04:20:42 PM »

This effort will probably only be completely finished with either OA v1.0 or v3 because there are still a lot of changes amongst the models (some are added, some are removed).

A related topic that can gives some guidelines about writing a more full-length story for a few characters: http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=3048.0
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Gig
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« Reply #107 on: August 31, 2012, 05:23:58 AM »

For your information, the new "autoswitch weapons" features introduced with OA 0.8.8 are finally documented in the wiki:
(DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Controls#Autoswitch_weapons

Bye!  Smiley
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.Luke
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« Reply #108 on: August 31, 2012, 07:02:15 AM »

I'm glad that's better acknowledged in the Wiki for other people to see now. I was pretty annoyed with auto-switch at first and it took me a while to figure out where the option to disable it in the menu was on my own. The new auto-switch features are pretty nice though, but accidentally walking over a grenade launcher with it on is something I always want to avoid, I stink at using it in any situation. #_# Otherwise I'd be fine with leaving at NEW, because it's pretty snappy for when I'm intentionally running after a new weapon in fights. =P
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Gig
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« Reply #109 on: August 31, 2012, 07:57:51 AM »

I have not tried yet if the weapons order variable (designed for "better" (3) and "new&better" (4) modes) applies also to "new" mode (2) -in the sense of "do not autoswitch to weapons that are not in the list"-, but probably doesn't.
Luke, I suppose we may ask Sago a such little change for the next OA version, but before that we should be sure it would be the "right" thing to do (maybe adding more options... let's say 5 and 6 "new if in list" and "always if in list" would be better than changing the behaviour of an existing value!).

UPDATE: Now I've tried. As expected, in "always" (1) and "new" (2) cg_autoswitch modes, the switch can be triggered by any weapon, ignoring cg_weaponorder variable. What I did not expect is that in "better" (3) and "new and better" (4) modes, the weapon change is triggered only if both currently used and picked up weapon are listed in cg_weaponorder. If just one the two is not listed, the switch does not occur (I suppose the algorithm has nothing to compare). I'm going update the wiki with this info (update: done).
Considering this, maybe it's not the case to mess too much making changes to the autoswitch code, but what do you think guys? I don't know.
To sum up, at the moment, excluding a weapon from the list does nothing (mode 1 or 2) or prevents from autoswitching from that weapon to any other one and vice versa (mode 3 or 4).

A thing I would suggest anyway to do for the next OA version is to update the default value of cg_weaponorder, putting in weapons 11, 12 and 13 (the three Team Arena weapons are not in the list for unknown reason) - weapon 10 is the hook and I suppose should not be included in the list.
PS: default cg_weaponorder value in 0.8.8 is "/1/2/4/3/6/7/8/9/5/" (meaning gauntlet/machinegun/grenade/shotgun/lightning/rail/plasma/BFG/rocket)... I don't understand why plasma is considered "better" than railgun!
A suppose a weapon order that IMHO may be nice may be /1/2/4/12/3/11/8/6/13/7/5/9/, but of course if you have a better order in mind, please write it (to know the numbers correponding to each weapon, you can look DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Controls#Weapon_numbers]here).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 11:07:45 AM by Gig » Logged

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Gig
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« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2012, 10:29:03 AM »

Luke, are you still there?
Did you notice the "edited" parts of the post above this one? What do you think about it?

I'd like to know also Sago's opinion... (and of course, of any other! Smiley)
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sago007
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« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

I believe that no matter how good an auto change function works it is always better to use manual change of weapons. I tried to do as few changes from the weapon numbering as possible with the exception of the grenade launcher and rocket launcher. I was going to ask for suggestions to the weapon order but for some reason I never got around to it.

The change was implemented in OAX r258. Based on my commit-message I considered both grapple and mine layer as weapons that should not be in the list.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2012, 04:08:31 PM »

Why the Mine Layer?
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Gig
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« Reply #113 on: September 07, 2012, 06:18:41 AM »

I agree manual change is probably the best thing (and of course I will continue using 0, as I always did)... but I suppose you changed default from 1 (always) to 2 (new) (while manual is 0) to give a sort o middle-way as default, and this may be good.

I agree grapple shouldn't be in the list. Not completely sure for mines (probably I think would add it, altough in the left part of the list), but I think chaingun and nailgun really should be there.

And, as I said in the post above, I don't know if the current behavior in modes 3 and 4 (if a weapon is not the list, prevent both autoswithing TO and FROM that weapon) is the best, or if would be better to change it to "if a weapon is not in the list, do not autoswitch TO it, but allow autoswitching FROM it".... or one may even add further options to manage this case.
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« Reply #114 on: September 07, 2012, 03:37:13 PM »

but I suppose you changed default from 1 (always) to 2 (new)
I changed it to 2 because I had forgotten that I had planned to change it to 4 (as mentioned in the oax commit message).

About being in the list of not. If you want to give the weapon a priority then add it to the list. However one thing that I find more important: Is a weapon new, if you already had the weapon but with no ammo? It is quite relevant if the goal is to have the overall best weapon drawn at all time.

I considered the mine layer a special weapon but you could easily argue otherwise.

Something that might give even more value is to have the weapon order considered then changing weapon after "out of ammo" or having a "best weapon"-key.
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Gig
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« Reply #115 on: September 09, 2012, 04:01:10 AM »

Speaking in the terms of words, a "new" wepon is one that you did not reviously had, thus it would not be the case of a weapon you already have (even if without ammo). Of course, the definition may be a little elastic and we may change it, but maybe is it better to keep the behavior more similar to its name?

About the autoswitch in case of out of ammo to use the best weapon order, I suppose it may be implemented, but maybe it may be considered in case of autoswitch modes 3 or 4 only, and work as usual otherwise? Let's consider one might have messed up with his weapons order, and he does not know/care about it because he's not using mode 3 or 4.

A "best weapon" key may be interesting, altough I dont't know how much it would be used.
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I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
.Luke
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« Reply #116 on: September 12, 2012, 07:54:50 PM »

A "Best Weapon Key" would be interesting, but as with the "better" weapon option, it would still be a mixed bag in use if you're too busy shooting to remember if you already picked up a better weapon than what you're using. Manual is definitely a safer bet, but so long as "better" doesn't involve me switching to the grenade launcher in any case, I'd be happy with it, personally. (It's a great weapon, don't get me wrong, but I'm horrible at using it in a firefight! Mostly just use it to spam a small area crammed with bots. Even then they're still smart enough to evade it, though.)

What I would like is an option to switch to the same weapon as my opponent, since whenever somebody pulls a rocket launcher on me, I'm royally screwed facing them with anything but that weapon, and can never switch fast enough; the same going for Plasma. But meh, I could probably just switch the Rocket Launcher toggle to my click wheel button and be fine with that, since I use Mouse2 for zooming. =P
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Gig
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« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2012, 01:41:20 AM »

so long as "better" doesn't involve me switching to the grenade launcher in any case, I'd be happy with it, personally.
So, you can edit your DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Controls#Autoswitch_weapons]best weapon order variable, to place the grenate launcher on the left side of the list (to give it lower priority than machinegun or gauntlet)... this way, autoswitch modes 3 and 4 should never autoswitch TO it, but would be able to autoswitch FROM it.

At this point, considered also that the wiki now explains how it works and how to setup better list variable, I propose to do not further mess with mode 3 and 4 mechanics. Supposing that experienced players would still prefer using manual switching, I guess Sago precious time may be used for more useful things like fixing other DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Bugs]bugs in the game. We may maybe make the autoswitch in case of out of ammo consider your list if you are in modes 3 or 4....
Anyway, I propose to change the default value of the list, to include the team arena weapons... let's discuss about how that should be.

Quote
What I would like is an option to switch to the same weapon as my opponent, since whenever somebody pulls a rocket launcher on me, I'm royally screwed facing them with anything but that weapon, and can never switch fast enough; the same going for Plasma.
I don't know how that would be applicable/useful. I mean, how to determine who is your opponent, when there are more than one? The GUI shows (in the upper right corner) who is the last one who hit you, right? But requiring to be hit by a rocket to let the system identify your opponent, then pressing the button to switch to the same weapon as him, wait for switching, then fire a rocket and hit him... it's possible you would be dead before this ends. And in the case the "last one who hit you" is not the one with rocket launcher you are facing, but is the third guy, on your back, who is machinegunning at both of you two from a long distance? One may detect the one you are aiming at, instead... but again, if you have more enemies in your sight, are you sure you aim at the right one in the exact moment you press the switch key? And what happens in case you don't have the same weapon as him, or you don't have ammo for it?
Maybe the "switch to my best weapon" key Sago proposed would be easier and more effective.

Instead, I would prefer some "finishing" like adding the variables that control the DO NOT LINK[/b]) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Weapon_bar]weapon bar (cg_weaponbarstyle and cg_alwaysweaponbar) to the menu (OA features some weapon bar styles that can tell you how many ammo you have left for each weapon, but I guess most people do not know that), and allowing co-existence on the screen of the weapon bar and of the text (on the lower left) that informs you about the item you just picked up (maybe by making text and icons a little smaller, if necessary, like OSP mod did, IIRC).

« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 01:53:16 AM by Gig » Logged

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.Luke
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« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2012, 02:12:20 PM »

Haven't thought about modifying the weapon order, or how slow changing to the opponent's weapon would be. :# I mean, I know the engine identifies who shot you last on the HUD, but didn't think I can easily get hammered by a second rocket before the switch could occur. (Doesn't matter how much armor you have, two direct hit with rockets cream just about anyone. Which is still not overpowered, IMO, HALO makes it so easy with its massive indirect radial damage for rockets.)

And yeah, getting involved in a messy firefight with multiple targets wouldn't help with any of that. A toggle for your best weapon would be more ideal.

Wait, OA's engine has more graphical bars it could use to convey ammo information? I didn't know about that, I think I'll play with it in the console. =P It would be nice to see UI options for it in the menus, and maybe for other things like mouse acceleration too, iirc. (Some Russian player on a German Ded yesterday informed me of that option in the console, and it totally made aiming a heck of a lot easier! I actually feel more competitive now. >:D )
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Gig
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« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2012, 09:10:31 AM »

I know we are OT by discussing this here... but considering we are talking about it...

I attached here some screenshots showing that maybe we may actually find a way to allow to display both the weapon bar and the name of the item you just picked up.

Here you can see the weapon bar from the OSP Q3 mod... it's vertical, on the left, and similar to some of "our" additional weaponbar styles. As you can see, the name of the item picked up is drawn even if the weapon bar is shown at the same time. It uses smaller fonts than usual.

Then, some screenshot from OpenArena, with two different styles of weaponbar (with all possible weapons loaded -except the grappling hook, that should be taken in account as well-), plus one that shows the normal size and position of the name you just picked up.

I suppose that we may find some way to make the two infos co-exist...
- maybe only in case one enables "always weapon bar"?
- maybe only if with some kinds of weapon bar?
- maybe not always using the smaller fonts, but only when you enable the options that allow to see both things at once? (E.g. if you use "weaponbarstyle 2" AND "always weapon bar", then the HUD will use small fonts for the item picked up. Just an example.).
They are just thoughts, what do you think?

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fromhell
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« Reply #120 on: September 15, 2012, 06:20:00 PM »

OTOT, but your two digit framerates are the strangest thing.
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Gig
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« Reply #121 on: September 16, 2012, 03:49:57 AM »

OTOT, but your two digit framerates are the strangest thing.
It's just that I have some heat problems at the moment (I should re-apply thermal paste on the processor, but I don't have it at the moment), so I set a low com_maxfps value to keep CPU usage (and thus, temperature) low...
If you ask me... and how do you play? Well, at the moment I don't have time to really play the game... and anyway I may open the case or place a fan in front of it (and set higher fps value).

Ps: seeing that you are here... what do you think about the autoswitch and weaponbar things? Of course, your opinion in the most important one... 
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grey matter
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« Reply #122 on: September 16, 2012, 07:34:59 AM »

It's just that I have some heat problems at the moment (I should re-apply thermal paste on the processor, but I don't have it at the moment), so I set a low com_maxfps value to keep CPU usage (and thus, temperature) low...

Try set com_busyWait 0 (it should be default anyways). This will make framerates a little unstable (i.e. no constant 125fps, rather toggle between 124-126fps), but results in lower overall CPU usage (unless you're running at 666fps or more Wink ).
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Gig
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« Reply #123 on: September 16, 2012, 12:21:09 PM »

I've read something about com_busywait time ago (maybe in some ioquake3 changelog?)... if you know enough about it, do you think you may write a section about it in (DO NOT LINK) h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Manual/Graphic_options ?
(This makes things a little more in-topic!) Smiley
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fromhell
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« Reply #124 on: September 16, 2012, 04:18:49 PM »

OTOT, but your two digit framerates are the strangest thing.
It's just that I have some heat problems at the moment (I should re-apply thermal paste on the processor, but I don't have it at the moment), so I set a low com_maxfps value to keep CPU usage (and thus, temperature) low...
It'd be your GPU taking the usage hit from the high framerate. Any competent dedicated video card made after 2000 should slip into 3 digit framerates easily especially if it has hardware transform & lighting.

The only way I can get to a native 30fps is to use a Pentium II.
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asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
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