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Author Topic: OpenArena Tourney map  (Read 311 times)
carca55gr1nd3r
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« on: October 03, 2018, 11:50:31 am »

Hi All,

find here one of my fast map project. Started one week ago and it ends up into a tourney map intent to use for 1vs1 matches:

feel free to leave some comments...

map:
https://app.box.com/s/9b4l138dw8dxih40bjizw93brggwfyh6

Some screen shots at here:

https://app.box.com/s/zx43zi2479w5wtbu5qfycy8vtr3xakpt

https://app.box.com/s/mg2ro2drskybjt2gfqzkxo7vrtzytwac

https://app.box.com/s/8be6fi1zsnon7qbo8qg1aa2h842577h8

https://app.box.com/s/clfrcym471ac7xb7y3k3ct7g92ijelup

https://app.box.com/s/j2kzj7gulelnhz1tsiarnb9bsh9cp951

https://app.box.com/s/4uh10ifuepqmttk8s22hmk8mwdiqx18r

https://app.box.com/s/ne81w1zy123g7x3rntemry9ifo4lqjr2

https://app.box.com/s/6s3lykff3c12cyqa4hfhuiqyiow4n4v5

https://app.box.com/s/a4sjijf9xll3rwi055omdmopztk56fiq

https://app.box.com/s/uzxbuu1zekv41ost0h5m0t5josrxutm4

« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 12:14:26 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 12:31:14 pm »

Tried oa_tourney01a01 in DM with some bots... very nice! I like it!  Wink
Maybe just a little dark, but it's okay, there are darker maps out there.

The only issue I noticed is a few small lights shader not being shown (see screenshot attached). I don't know if that's due to my OA install not being clean...
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2018, 12:45:28 pm »

Tried oa_tourney01a01 in DM with some bots... very nice! I like it!  Wink
Maybe just a little dark, but it's okay, there are darker maps out there.

The only issue I noticed is a few small lights shader not being shown (see screenshot attached). I don't know if that's due to my OA install not being clean...

 Grin Same issue than on the cgdome map, I recoment to use a clean installation of OA. The texture came from the original OA0.88 pack and it works on my fresh installation perfectly

And the missing texture fix a lot of the DARKNESS  giggity  ccool
Because it is a light texture
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Gig
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2018, 12:56:12 pm »

And the missing texture fix a lot of the DARKNESS  giggity  ccool
Because it is a light texture
Lighting is calculated at compiling time, so the area around those lights is actually lit anyway... ^_^
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2018, 12:58:40 am »

I confirm those lights are shown correctly on another PC.  Wink

By the way, what's that "Frag with John"?
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2018, 02:03:49 am »

I confirm those lights are shown correctly on another PC.  Wink

By the way, what's that "Frag with John"?


Frag with John:
A fictitious esport-clan I have created just for fun and I made also a logo for it.
Idea cames by just running a server to play with a friend of my (John) and indroduce him to OA.

I like environments with billboards to make the environment more stylish.
topsy

What about the items? is it too overpowered? Is it unbalanced?

Cheers
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 02:16:07 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 05:48:41 am »

I just had a nice 1v1 against hardcore Beret (for the record, I won 20-8. Yes, most other players would win 20-0, but I'm not a pro and I'm relatively new to the map). It was quite funny, I also liked to use the shortcut jump from the boxes to the rocket launcher.

Things I noticed testing bots navigation with g_gametype 3, ordering a teammate to follow me.
- Bots sometimes have some little problem with one of the jummpads, sometimes avoiding to use it while it should have been natural to use it, or repeatedly jumping on it until they find something more insteresting to do.
- Teammate bot cannot follow me on the box-to-rocket jump (not a real issue, probably)... and he cannot reach the megahealth.

About items balance, I think it may be okay... also considering it's not a ctf map (in that case, the quad damage on one side would have been unbalanced). However players more "pro" than me may give better opinions about map balance...
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 07:28:35 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 11:07:51 am »

I just had a nice 1v1 against hardcore Beret (for the record, I won 20-8. Yes, most other players would win 20-0, but I'm not a pro and I'm relatively new to the map). It was quite funny, I also liked to use the shortcut jump from the boxes to the rocket launcher.

Things I noticed testing bots navigation with g_gametype 3, ordering a teammate to follow me.
- Bots sometimes have some little problem with one of the jummpads, sometimes avoiding to use it while it should have been natural to use it, or repeatedly jumping on it until they find something more insteresting to do.
- Teammate bot cannot follow me on the box-to-rocket jump (not a real issue, probably)... and he cannot reach the megahealth.

About items balance, I think it may be okay... also considering it's not a ctf map (in that case, the quad damage on one side would have been unbalanced). However players more "pro" than me may give better opinions about map balance...

Grazie Mille ... Gig for your feedback. I am realy surprized you played TDM on that map Shocked there are realy less spawnpoints included, its just 5.
Maybe add some more  Undecided

BTW: That project was an out come by testing a new mapping concept to me. It is modular mapping so It is not difficult to create a CTF map or other variation.
The list of modular parts is not completed but I will try to keep on it. (see screenshot ....)

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2018, 11:23:51 am »

Grazie Mille ... Gig for your feedback. I am realy surprized you played TDM on that map Shocked there are realy less spawnpoints included, its just 5.
Maybe add some more  Undecided
Prego!  Smiley (You're welcome!)
Adding more spawn points is a good idea of course.

Hovewer, I didn't really "play" TDM there... it's just what I think is a "good practice" for testing maps: entering a team-based mode, ordering a bot team-mate of yours to follow you, and then go around the map with your bot buddy, observing him. This allows to notice places where the bots do not go well, such as jumps they are not capable to perform or strange long routes they may take to reach near points (e.g. due to the lack of enough clusterportals in case the map is divided into different clusters via large botclip walls). Not that bots are really required to get on any single surface an human player can reach, however knowing it allows the mapper to decide what to do each case.
Another kind of bot analysis is spectating them (maybe with an higher timescale value) to see if they roam all the map on their own (but I haven't tried this one with your map).
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 11:28:40 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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Cakes 4
Posts: 139



« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2018, 11:35:17 am »

Grazie Mille ... Gig for your feedback. I am realy surprized you played TDM on that map Shocked there are realy less spawnpoints included, its just 5.
Maybe add some more  Undecided
Prego!  Smiley (You're welcome!)
Adding more spawn points is a good idea of course.

Hovewer, I didn't really "play" TDM there... it's just what I think is a "good practice" for testing maps: entering a team-based mode, ordering a bot team-mate of yours to follow you, and then go around the map with your bot buddy, observing him. This allows to notice places where the bots do not go well, such as jumps they are not capable to perform or strange long routes they may take to reach near points (e.g. due to the lack of enough clusterportals in case the map is divided into different clusters via large botclip walls).
Another kind of bot analysis is spectating them (maybe with an higher timescale value) to see if they roam all the map on their own (but I haven't tried this one with your map).


Holly Crap, just tried out TDM (g_gametype 3) and it was fun like hell I really think about to add some team match spawn points and change the *.arena file to add TDM here.

Sorry I have no clue how to influence the navigation of the bots. I just let the bspc do the job. BTW Bot clip is only used to avoid some navigation calculation on non playable areas (behind the crates)
Oh, the map file is included if you want to check  Wink
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Gig
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2018, 01:51:57 pm »

What about adding also Domination points?
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2018, 02:51:23 pm »

What about adding also Domination points?

Domination ? ...  Cry till now I had no clue what Domination is in OpenArena / Q3A (Never played Team Arena)  punched
But just test it right now on map Aggressor and yes it would be fit perfectly together to the map  Grin

BTW The hardcore bot has ripp off my ass so I am for sure not a pro gamer. (how you managed to dominate the hardcore bot?) I guess Nightmare bot would stop me to play OA  sick
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Gig
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2018, 03:51:34 am »

Well, was the bot Beret? Different bots have different weapon preference and weapons skills...

About the additional gametypes: 1FlagCTF, Harvester and Overload are from Team Arena, while Elimination, Elimination CTF, Last Man Standing, Domination and Double Domination are OpenArena-specific (although Elimination is more or less the same as Clan Arena mode seen in some Q3A mods).

TDM uses deathmatch spawn points.

Ways to influence bot navigation include:
- placing item_botroam (weight key is imporant) to make them interested into reaching places where there are no items.
- placing info_camp to suggest them camping areas.
- using clip brushes (clip, botclip, weapclip) to make map geometry simpler for them (they like square, axial brushes)
- using "donotenter" to discourage them from going into too dangerous areas (or into areas where they are not capable to exit)
- using clusterportals to divide the map into different sections (clusters), to limit the number of areas in each cluster, to prevent bot-related hitches (bot stutter). They should follow some rules. As a rule of thumb, it would be optimal if you could keep each cluster under 500 areas, however try to keep them under 1000.

Further reading:
(DO NOT LINK)  h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Additional_gametype_support
(DO NOT LINK)  h t t p s : / / openarena . wikia . com/wiki/Mapping_manual/Bot_play
(Note: the forum does currently block links to wikia to limit its search engine ranking, you have to manually fix them in your address bar - Sorry Fromhell, this time I had to link... however I explained what I could here before posting the links!)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 03:23:22 pm by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 01:51:36 pm »

Thanks Gig for all the awesome tipps.

Find at here the new version:

https://app.box.com/s/4jf9ozspm5f65v26vl5nju77xs1004u3


Change log:

- add some more light to the map (I hate maps that are to dark  Lips Sealed)
- remove the quard damage (too overpowered for tourney) and use the spot for the red armor instead
- move the red armor to different spot (see point above)
- add Domination support
- add more spawn points up to 15 now
- add an info_player_intermission spawn
- GNU General Public License, version 2

Have Fun

Edit: Just test the domination gameplay ... wow that rocks  Tongue

 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:19:37 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 01:53:21 pm »

Tried, very good!  Smiley
The only thing, I would have placed a couple of +25 health bonuses in the place where the red armor was before.
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2018, 03:46:04 pm »

Tried, very good!  Smiley
The only thing, I would have placed a couple of +25 health bonuses in the place where the red armor was before.

Okay, yes sounds reasonable to stay at that spot with an item. (or couple of +25 health  Smiley )
Put maybe the mega there? Or stay mega upon the box in the under floor?

Edit: Just forget to answer the bot question ... yes it was Beret I fail at hardcore mode... grouch  punched
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 04:23:46 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2018, 05:31:52 pm »

Finally I beat Beret hardcore bot  Grin
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carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 01:58:04 pm »

Okay another major upgrade:

https://app.box.com/s/pkmp26gt1x4rearsxr12bvl1jnck2g5m

- add the couple of 25+ health at the old Red armor spot
- add some more items
- add some minor details at the level design
- add ambient noise
- add now up to 19 spawn points

close to final version hopefully  Azn
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 06:21:41 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 09:36:53 am »

Finally I beat Beret hardcore bot  Grin
That's Morgan, another bot using the same model as Beret... but its skills may differ.  Wink

About the new version, I'll test it in the next days.
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Gig
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2018, 02:18:22 pm »

- add the couple of 25+ health at the old Red armor spot
They are three +5 in reality, however ok.  Smiley

I tried the map, still good!  Wink
But bots occasionally still have problems with that jumppad. See attached screenshot... during an Elimination match, that bot did stand still immobile there, until I got very close to it. I don't know the reason.

UPDATE: I opened your .map file. I see you made the (invisible) trigger brushes of the jummpads round... in theory it should be okay, but considering that bots have some problems there, what about trying to make them more square (as said, bots mostly like square, axial geometry)? Just the trigger...
Or maybe another try may be moving the destination point of the jump a bit (just to change "something" in the jump)...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 02:30:09 pm by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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Cakes 4
Posts: 139



« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2018, 05:55:18 pm »

OKAY fine tuning:

https://app.box.com/s/uesykysnd152tnb5wdm0ravrxtmw4ttd

have made some brush changes of the trigger and jump slots


Thanks Gig for the awesome support  Kiss

When I am next time in Florence I will spend a beer ...
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 06:23:44 pm by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 01:49:12 am »

I have to tell you congrats for this map, I like it.  Smiley

I played a little with the new version, I haven't noticed bots problems with the jummpads for now.
I have seen a bot stopping in the place of this screenshot instead (the one with rocket launcher), but I really don't know why. It didn't gave me the impression of being camping, just of being buggy; however shooting at it caused it to start moving again. I also opened the .map file and found nothing strage there. Unfortunately, bots are not perfect...

Unrelated: I do not know if you may wish to move the megahealth crate closer to the lateral platform where the bot is in the screenshot, to make them able to reach it...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:09:34 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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Cakes 4
Posts: 139



« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 09:50:53 am »

I have to tell you congrats for this map, I like it.  Smiley

I played a little with the new version, I haven't noticed bots problems with the jummpads for now.
I have seen a bot stopping in the place of this screenshot instead (the one with rocket launcher), but I really don't know why. It didn't gave me the impression of being camping, just of being buggy; however shooting at it caused it to start moving again. I also opened the .map file and found nothing strage there. Unfortunately, bots are not perfect...

Unrelated: I do not know if you may wish to move the megahealth crate closer to the lateral platform where the bot is in the screenshot, to make them able to reach it...

Thanks a lot ... look at me I just have 4 cakes and a Lesser Nub now  Grin

The Mega is on the box to make it a little challange for human players (you need a jump sequence to reach the top of the crate)
When I move it to this spot there is no challange any more to this. While mapping, I think in the first way to real human players what challange can increase the game fun...
... I am affraid that change will maybe some loose of human vs human game fun.   Undecided

Some bots even at hardcore mode only ripps off my ass without there possibility to pick the mega  punched

Would be happy if you share your oppinion regarding that  giggity
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:55:46 am by carca55gr1nd3r » Logged
Gig
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« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2018, 11:06:48 am »

Well, I suppose a little bit of help for human players would not kill anyone... Surely it isn't the first map with some item that bots do not reach.  Wink

.. and yes, it's reassuring to know you will find your loved mega there when you will need it... ^_^
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 11:12:16 am by Gig » Logged

I never want to be aggressive, offensive or ironic with my posts. If you find something offending in my posts, read them again searching for a different mood there. If you still see something bad with them, please ask me infos. I can be wrong at times, but I never want to upset anyone.
carca55gr1nd3r
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« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2018, 11:27:14 am »

Thanks again.

BTW meanwhile I have uploaded the map at my server and had just a nice 1vs1 human only  ccool

Check out if you like  Smiley

/connect 185.223.29.56
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