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Author Topic: q3jgdm1, my first map feedback wanted  (Read 11009 times)
jangroothuijse
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« on: February 01, 2013, 06:09:23 PM »

After playing a lot of OA, i decided it was finaly time to make map...

The entire thing was a gameplay first design, there are still some dull spots and i'd like your view/advice on those.
The colors and texturing are not really like much other maps, but in your wiki is says somewhere you wanted to go for more vivid and less realism and well, it does that.

Also licencing, i will rerelease it under the correct license, as soon as i know how, i've used textures and skyboxes and i am not yet sure about the licencing on those...

Anyway, give it try, let me know what you think:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/q3jgdm1.pk3

Screenshots:



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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 03:19:50 AM »

Given a quick try to the map! I really liked it!  Smiley Smiley Nice!

Anyway, if you plan to make suitable to be placed in a "official" OpenArena release (or official mappack), GPL should be followed strictly. You have to be sure each texture you use is either GPLv2 or Public Domain.
Same things happens for md3 models inside the map.

The teleporter model you used is md3 from Q3/q3radiant, and I fear it's not GPLv2 (Fromhell or Neon_Knight may confirm this, I'm not 100% sure, but it's quite likely). You should use a GPLv2 teleporter model, if you want to make a 100% GPL-compatible map.

If you don't wish to have the map being part of any OpenArena official stuff, it's another story...

Anyway, a problem you should consider about using that teleporter model with OA, is that at the moment -OA 0.8.8-, we have no replacement for its texture yet... so players would need to use a "q3a2oa texture compatibility pack", to avoid seeing the black and white squares texture on it.
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Akom74
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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 06:03:56 AM »


I have tryed it and the gameplay seems strange but nice  Grin

In a "vanilla" OA folder the teleporter appear without textures


Second thing, why put two teleporter so close each other ?

Wink
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 08:01:18 AM »

That's because the teleporter is extracted directly from Quake III.
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 09:04:46 AM »

Anyway, a problem you should consider about using that teleporter model with OA, is that at the moment -OA 0.8.8-, we have no replacement for its texture yet... so players would need to use a "q3a2oa texture compatibility pack", to avoid seeing the black and white squares texture on it.

That's because the teleporter is extracted directly from Quake III.

Yes i guess it is, in netradiant i thought lets make it a q3 compatible map, so it will work everywhere...but i see now i should refrain from using q3 models...

I always a compatibilty pack so i didn't notice anything. I will fix this by not using the model, i'm now trying something that looks like a quake1 style portal.

Given a quick try to the map! I really liked it!  Smiley Smiley Nice!

Anyway, if you plan to make suitable to be placed in a "official" OpenArena release (or official mappack), GPL should be followed strictly. You have to be sure each texture you use is either GPLv2 or Public Domain.
Same things happens for md3 models inside the map.

Thanks! I would like that very much. The textures where from the xcsv_highres texture pack, which unfortunatly has a creative commons licence, not good enough i suppose...If you guys know any sources textures that do have the right license, please tell.

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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 09:22:39 AM »


I have tryed it and the gameplay seems strange but nice  Grin

In a "vanilla" OA folder the teleporter appear without textures


Second thing, why put two teleporter so close each other ?

Wink

To answer your question, so that you have option, to make the map more connected, to make top floor easier ambush.

I suppose the teleporting with missing textures could be replaced by a jumppad, but a teleporter is much faster and using it leaves you less 'exposed'.

The teleporter in the back of the shot goes somewhere completely different.

I'll have to think about making it a jumppad.
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 11:14:16 AM »

There's a teleport model already among the OA models. It's even pretty similar to the one in Q3A.

Download this and extract it's content in the baseoa folder. It should recognize the models when you insert a new misc_model.
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Akom74
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 01:03:25 PM »

Yes, the jumppad is a good idea.

I have maked this little thing for you, if you like it you can texturize it as you want and make your personal effect Tongue  Grin Grin
(see attachment)
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 02:12:17 PM »

Yes, the jumppad is a good idea.

I have maked this little thing for you, if you like it you can texturize it as you want and make your personal effect Tongue  Grin Grin
(see attachment)


I'm not quite sure how to open that, but thanks.

I've found another solution for the close proximity of teleporters:

Now that it sticks to the wall, there is at least a metre extra space between them!

So i made a version without any md3 models for teleporters, they are kind of q1 inspired.
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1.pk3
edit: Note: please remove q3jgdm1.pk3 if you have it, a shader file has the same name so some shaders will not work...


I'll try the new teleporters next, which model teleporter is considered better?
( mapobjects/teleporter.md3 | misc/telep.md3 )
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 02:18:04 PM by jangroothuijse » Logged
Akom74
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 02:33:22 PM »

Quote from: Akom74
I have maked this little thing for you, if you like it you can texturize it as you want and make your personal effect Tongue  Grin Grin

I'm not quite sure how to open that, but thanks.

It's simple, just unzip the attachent you downloaded, inside it you will find the file "full_teleporter.pfb", the .pfb file it's a prefab that you can import in the editor Cheesy

Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 02:50:39 PM »

Quote from: Akom74
I have maked this little thing for you, if you like it you can texturize it as you want and make your personal effect Tongue  Grin Grin

I'm not quite sure how to open that, but thanks.

It's simple, just unzip the attachent you downloaded, inside it you will find the file "full_teleporter.pfb", the .pfb file it's a prefab that you can import in the editor Cheesy

Wink

Using NetRadiant or GtkRadiant i cannot import a .pfb..what editor are you using?
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Akom74
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 02:56:43 PM »

Quote from: Akom74
I have maked this little thing for you, if you like it you can texturize it as you want and make your personal effect Tongue  Grin Grin

I'm not quite sure how to open that, but thanks.

It's simple, just unzip the attachent you downloaded, inside it you will find the file "full_teleporter.pfb", the .pfb file it's a prefab that you can import in the editor Cheesy

Wink

Using NetRadiant or GtkRadiant i cannot import a .pfb..what editor are you using?

Oops, sorry about this issue.

I'm using Q3Radiant202 because i feel better with it than GTKradiant.

Nevermind of it and take a look at the attachment, this time it will be loaded (it's a .map file).

Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 05:59:04 PM »

@Akom74,

Thnx for the teleporter, but since i may have to change a whole bunch of textures already, i don't think i'll use it for this project...

I've tried making the 2 of the teleporters into jumppads, and named the result after you:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1akom74.pk3
They still look like the q1-style portals, but work like vertical jumppads now.



I've tried the OA models, /mapobjects/teleporters/teleporter.md3 only showed up as a 2d clipping artifact, /misc/telep.md3 showed up as this:


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Akom74
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 01:36:32 AM »

@Akom74,

Thnx for the teleporter, but since i may have to change a whole bunch of textures already, i don't think i'll use it for this project...

I've tried making the 2 of the teleporters into jumppads, and named the result after you:
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1akom74.pk3
They still look like the q1-style portals, but work like vertical jumppads now.

Thank you too  Grin Grin

No problem for my teleporter, if you want you can use it.
(in the attachment you will find another teleporter (textured  Tongue ) from my my "Crypt" map)

I think it's a bad idea to give jump effect for the teleporter, better if you change something.

Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 07:34:47 AM »

I've replaced the textures by oa ones (that i may have edited slightly...)

Some have improved, i like the new marble tiles on the floor, and oa's pewter is awesome. But mostly i could not find the exact colors / patterns i was looking for...

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_oatextures.pk3

About the beautiful skybox, it comes with a readme:
Quote
THIS SKY WAS UPDATED AT THE 27TH
THE ORIG HAD SOME ERRORS

MIRAMAR
high res 1024^2 environment map
ships as TGA.


By Jockum Skoglund aka hipshot
hipshot@zfight.com
www.zfight.com
Stockholm, 2005 08 25


Modify however you like, just cred me for my work, maybe link to my page.
Thats more or less gplv2 right?
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Akom74
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 08:12:13 AM »

...ehm, i'm sorry to tell you that when i try to launch the map it give me this error:
...any idea ??
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Neon_Knight
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 08:46:29 AM »

I've replaced the textures by oa ones (that i may have edited slightly...)

Some have improved, i like the new marble tiles on the floor, and oa's pewter is awesome. But mostly i could not find the exact colors / patterns i was looking for...

http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_oatextures.pk3

About the beautiful skybox, it comes with a readme:
Quote
THIS SKY WAS UPDATED AT THE 27TH
THE ORIG HAD SOME ERRORS

MIRAMAR
high res 1024^2 environment map
ships as TGA.


By Jockum Skoglund aka hipshot
hipshot@zfight.com
www.zfight.com
Stockholm, 2005 08 25


Modify however you like, just cred me for my work, maybe link to my page.
Thats more or less gplv2 right?
The easy way to understand what GPLv2 is about... For a software to respect GPLv2, it must respect four fundamental freedoms:
- To be able to use the software with any purpose.
- To be able to study how the software works and change it to fit the requested needs.
- To be able to redistribute the software.
- To be able to redistribute the modified copies of this software to others.

For freedoms 2 and 4, access to the source is a must (in this case, the source is the .map file used for the map creation, and for the textures, the .xcf -GIMP- or .psd -Photoshop- files. I don't know which program you've used, though.)
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 03:45:30 PM »

...ehm, i'm sorry to tell you that when i try to launch the map it give me this error:
...any idea ??


Whoops, used progressive JPEG compression...fixed now.
edit: i reuploaded the file under the same name so: http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_oatextures.pk3
I haven't used your teleporters just jet.

@Neon_Knight
So thats a no .. and i should be looking for a gplv2 skybox.

I must say i cannot agree with this 'source' stuff, the analogy doesn't hold coming from software and translating it to rasterized images:

1.
Compiled software is hard to decompile, c and the like especially, and decompiling is required before you can to anything do change it.
Images are easy to manipulate, changing colors and stuff can be done to any possible image format.

2.
What is considered source for rasterized graphics? Changes made to a layer (where the change moves the image closer to the final product) are often impossible to revert from just a state of a file (the undo button just brings back an old saved state).
There is no format for graphics equally powerfull for revision as there is in software, its just that a PSD/XCF might be slightly closer.

In conclusion
compiled binary != rasterized image file
source code != xcf

So i think the source for images isn't a very good restriction.

That said, i'll find or make a suitable gplv2 skybox.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:48:56 PM by jangroothuijse » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 07:39:28 PM »

Be wary of skyboxes as most were generated by the Terragen tool which has a strict non-commercial usage clause. It's very easy to recognize them and people don't often mention terragen either.  Terragen is script based.

It's also hard making a skybox in Blender as blender will throw the raytracer off, and yes, the source of a skybox could be a .blend file.  However if we were to strictly adhere to the GPLv2 for everything in a 'human readable source' (like readable in vi) that would mean procedural script generation, which wouldn't make the project possible (or possible, but looking like this).  You could get an argument for "binary isnt source" for everything that's here and frankly it's a beaten dead horse i'm tired of hearing on this board.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 07:46:51 PM by fromhell » Logged

asking when OA3 will be done won't get OA3 done.
Progress of OA3 currently occurs behind closed doors alone

I do not provide technical support either.

new code development on github
jangroothuijse
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 11:24:36 AM »

So i made skybox using the gimp; it does have some strange artifacts, but not enought to disturb the skybox illusion:

It does lack a bit of the drama the original had...perhaps some day i could try to draw some clouds on it, for now its just a clear day.

That makes this version entirely free of restricted stuff, making it gplv2 compliant?
http://jan.groothuijse.net/img/oajgdm1_beta1.pk3
Its also got all sources included, which makes the file a bit heavy at 25MB.

Would this be gplv2 compliant?
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Akom74
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 01:08:42 PM »


@jangroothuijse: you mean that all the textures you have used for this map are GPLv2 ?
Good ! There are some i can use for my map  Grin Grin

 Wink
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jangroothuijse
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 04:35:05 PM »


@jangroothuijse: you mean that all the textures you have used for this map are GPLv2 ?
Good ! There are some i can use for my map  Grin Grin

 Wink

Go right ahead, most textures are now color adjusted oa textures:
- the black with blue lines was more work and has a .xcf in the src map
- the grass was my own creation, src now contains a higher resolution version (with the potential to undo the lawnmower effect)
- skybox was made using a radial gradient and the supernova effect from the GIMP, src in src/clearbluesky_up.xcf

I'm happy enough with the skybox to package it so it can be used as asset, oa doesn't have any blue skies right now...


Yes i love the bloom; i don't play with it, but in screenies it looks awesome!
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Gig
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 12:54:53 AM »

I'm happy enough with the skybox to package it so it can be used as asset, oa doesn't have any blue skies right now...
Sounds a very good idea!  Smiley When you are ready with the skybox package (textures, sources, COPYING file), you can submit it to the SVN commits thread (stuff has to be posted there, to be inserted into official OA repository by Fromhell).

I'm curious to try the new version of the map... Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 06:42:34 PM »


Go right ahead, most textures are now color adjusted oa textures:
- the black with blue lines was more work and has a .xcf in the src map


Black with blue lines gives me a science-fiction feeling.
Maybe also a skybox with stars will be nice. Like that of Akom74 or this below.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 06:45:37 PM by Dancar » Logged
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